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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer
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Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeah, that's how I see em now - they function almost exactly like health - but with the benefit of being proactive and non-debuffable - and it seems the cost of not benefitting from block..
The synergies still aren't quite there.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yeah, that's how I see em now - they function almost exactly like health - but with the benefit of being proactive and non-debuffable - and it seems the cost of not benefitting from block..
The synergies still aren't quite there.
@Biro123
Actually you just brought up a really interesting point there "non-debuffable". Shields either scale of your max health or are capped by a % of your max health. I and probably others tend to forget that Minor Mangle is a thing. That could actually lower shield amount now if they are at the 40/50% cap or if its a health based shield. I need to go test this now and see if it really does
1 -
swirve✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
I remember running 4x Martial Knowledge (with a VR 13 Hand piece at first) and 5x Warlock back then. Good ol times.
good old times
- Sorcs could streak and were mobile(not snared to dead or stuck in air or snared by gap closing )
- Sorc had some nice melee combos: dawnbreaker+proxi (really punishing against stacked players)
- Sorc had sustain
- Sorc could run dw
- Sorc did not need endless fury to kill something
- Sorc mines were dangerous
- Sorc did not have to farm vDSA for a staff to have a cc since frags did cc
- Sorc had a burst ulti with dawnbreaker that does not warn your enemy
- Sorcs did not have to spam shields every 4 sec out of combat just so a ganker could not instant kill them (It is really tired some to just stand there spamming shields because you know that the nb will just destroy you the moment you did not spam it)
Why are you in a position where you might be ganked? This is a l2p issue. Either dont go solo or accept you cannot panic button survive an assassination.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 6, 2025 6:51PM0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
I remember running 4x Martial Knowledge (with a VR 13 Hand piece at first) and 5x Warlock back then. Good ol times.
good old times- Sorcs could streak and were mobile(not snared to dead or stuck in air or snared by gap closing )
- Sorc had some nice melee combos: dawnbreaker+proxi (really punishing against stacked players)
- Sorc had sustain
- Sorc could run dw
- Sorc did not need endless fury to kill something
- Sorc mines were dangerous
- Sorc did not have to farm vDSA for a staff to have a cc since frags did cc
- Sorc had a burst ulti with dawnbreaker that does not warn your enemy
- Sorcs did not have to spam shields every 4 sec out of combat just so a ganker could not instant kill them (It is really tired some to just stand there spamming shields because you know that the nb will just destroy you the moment you did not spam it)
Why are you in a position where you might be ganked? This is a l2p issue. Either dont go solo or accept you cannot panic button survive an assassination.
Is it a L2P issue that nightblades whine about sorc burst in forums for 4 years while they can die from a nb burst in 1.5 sec?
Are you serious?
Or you think that nightblades deserve to 1shot while a sorc but chase kite and dps for 5 mins to score a kill? Is that your "balanced L2P" PvP ?
Sorcs are FORCED to run 0 impen and hide behind shields as we NEED those small pieces well fitted because he have 0 defensives besides 1 shield(yes one,the other is not sorc toolkit) and we need big pieces infused to get that extra damage we dont have because WE ARE NOT WHINEBLADES to have a better burst with 3 key combo that needs 0 timing but just correct alignment.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 6, 2025 6:52PM16 -
Bergzorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭BalticBlues wrote: »
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
I remember running 4x Martial Knowledge (with a VR 13 Hand piece at first) and 5x Warlock back then. Good ol times.
good old times- Sorcs could streak and were mobile(not snared to dead or stuck in air or snared by gap closing )
- Sorc had some nice melee combos: dawnbreaker+proxi (really punishing against stacked players)
- Sorc had sustain
- Sorc could run dw
- Sorc did not need endless fury to kill something
- Sorc mines were dangerous
- Sorc did not have to farm vDSA for a staff to have a cc since frags did cc
- Sorc had a burst ulti with dawnbreaker that does not warn your enemy
- Sorcs did not have to spam shields every 4 sec out of combat just so a ganker could not instant kill them (It is really tired some to just stand there spamming shields because you know that the nb will just destroy you the moment you did not spam it)
Why are you in a position where you might be ganked? This is a l2p issue. Either dont go solo or accept you cannot panic button survive an assassination.
Lol, what? [snip]
Edit: messed up the quote
[edited for profanity bypass & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 6, 2025 6:53PMno CP PvP PC/EU
EP Zergborn
DC Zerg Beacon
guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored5 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
I remember running 4x Martial Knowledge (with a VR 13 Hand piece at first) and 5x Warlock back then. Good ol times.
good old times- Sorcs could streak and were mobile(not snared to dead or stuck in air or snared by gap closing )
- Sorc had some nice melee combos: dawnbreaker+proxi (really punishing against stacked players)
- Sorc had sustain
- Sorc could run dw
- Sorc did not need endless fury to kill something
- Sorc mines were dangerous
- Sorc did not have to farm vDSA for a staff to have a cc since frags did cc
- Sorc had a burst ulti with dawnbreaker that does not warn your enemy
- Sorcs did not have to spam shields every 4 sec out of combat just so a ganker could not instant kill them (It is really tired some to just stand there spamming shields because you know that the nb will just destroy you the moment you did not spam it)
Why are you in a position where you might be ganked? This is a l2p issue. Either dont go solo or accept you cannot panic button survive an assassination.
Lol, what? [snip]
Edit: messed up the quote
No...
If nightblade dies from well timed 5 skill sorc combo its MIMIMI MIIM IMIMIMI on forums
If sorc forgets to apply a shield for a sec and dies IN JUST ONE SECOND from 2 nightblade buttons ITS BALANCE
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 6, 2025 6:52PM23 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭In pvp it will be ok. Might be even better then it is now on live in heavy. In pve all mages will suffer greatly. Those tiny shields won't do in any serious content.
In what universe can it be better then on live. For your shields to be equal strenght with those on live now you have to sacrifice both your *** sustain and your *** SD. For your shields to be strong enough you have to be so tanky to which point you dont even need shields anymore because your're a pure tank. Dont talk crap!
Ahh, but if you are a pure tank, those shields will be extremely effective.
But yeah, for any sorc that wants to do damage in pvp - its a big nerf.
That said, what I don't know is if murkmire blocking reduces damage taken by shields - or does that still not apply like on live? I mean logically, it would be based on the order in which the defence gets hit..
Old shield was based on the idea of it being like a bubble - so anything hit the shield first, then if it got through, you could block - and what was left hit your armour..
But now - its like the shield sits close to the skin - under the armour - otherwise, how could your armour 'protect' the shield? - which surely means that logically, you should be able to block the damage before it gets to your armour, and then to the shield.. ?
To be honest it didnt even cross my mind, but when you put it that way it sure seem logical. Maybe it could also be viable running ice staff pressure build with lots of snare capability and tanky as ***. But ultimately ZoS probably wont do anything on that matter since they didnt even think of it, just like i didnt.
0 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭BalticBlues wrote: »
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
I remember running 4x Martial Knowledge (with a VR 13 Hand piece at first) and 5x Warlock back then. Good ol times.
good old times- Sorcs could streak and were mobile(not snared to dead or stuck in air or snared by gap closing )
- Sorc had some nice melee combos: dawnbreaker+proxi (really punishing against stacked players)
- Sorc had sustain
- Sorc could run dw
- Sorc did not need endless fury to kill something
- Sorc mines were dangerous
- Sorc did not have to farm vDSA for a staff to have a cc since frags did cc
- Sorc had a burst ulti with dawnbreaker that does not warn your enemy
- Sorcs did not have to spam shields every 4 sec out of combat just so a ganker could not instant kill them (It is really tired some to just stand there spamming shields because you know that the nb will just destroy you the moment you did not spam it)
Why are you in a position where you might be ganked? This is a l2p issue. Either dont go solo or accept you cannot panic button survive an assassination.
Lol, what? [snip]
Edit: messed up the quote
No...
If nightblade dies from well timed 5 skill sorc combo its MIMIMI MIIM IMIMIMI on forums
If sorc forgets to apply a shield for a sec and dies IN JUST ONE SECOND from 2 nightblade buttons ITS BALANCE
Im glad someone said it. so true..
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 6, 2025 6:53PM20 -
Witar✭✭✭✭✭
Thought it's impossible to die to 5 skill combo on nb since rolldodge kinda negates at least 3 of themBalticBlues wrote: »
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
I remember running 4x Martial Knowledge (with a VR 13 Hand piece at first) and 5x Warlock back then. Good ol times.
good old times- Sorcs could streak and were mobile(not snared to dead or stuck in air or snared by gap closing )
- Sorc had some nice melee combos: dawnbreaker+proxi (really punishing against stacked players)
- Sorc had sustain
- Sorc could run dw
- Sorc did not need endless fury to kill something
- Sorc mines were dangerous
- Sorc did not have to farm vDSA for a staff to have a cc since frags did cc
- Sorc had a burst ulti with dawnbreaker that does not warn your enemy
- Sorcs did not have to spam shields every 4 sec out of combat just so a ganker could not instant kill them (It is really tired some to just stand there spamming shields because you know that the nb will just destroy you the moment you did not spam it)
Why are you in a position where you might be ganked? This is a l2p issue. Either dont go solo or accept you cannot panic button survive an assassination.
Lol, what? [snip]
Edit: messed up the quote
No...
If nightblade dies from well timed 5 skill sorc combo its MIMIMI MIIM IMIMIMI on forums
If sorc forgets to apply a shield for a sec and dies IN JUST ONE SECOND from 2 nightblade buttons ITS BALANCE
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 6, 2025 6:54PMIt cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills,
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.1 -
Witar✭✭✭✭✭
If you don't know how to build your sorc right that's a problem on your end. Tempars and dks sustain heavy armor just fine. And you will too since shields will hold longer in it and you don't need to recast them every second in a fight. You can also hit softcap resists wearing fortified brass which can be light. Losing like 3k magicka. Big deal.In pvp it will be ok. Might be even better then it is now on live in heavy. In pve all mages will suffer greatly. Those tiny shields won't do in any serious content.
In what universe can it be better then on live. For your shields to be equal strenght with those on live now you have to sacrifice both your *** sustain and your *** SD. For your shields to be strong enough you have to be so tanky to which point you dont even need shields anymore because your're a pure tank. Dont talk crap!
Edited by Witar on October 12, 2018 2:02PMIt cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills,
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.1 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭
Thought it's impossible to die to 5 skill combo on nb since rolldodge kinda negates at least 3 of themBalticBlues wrote: »
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
I remember running 4x Martial Knowledge (with a VR 13 Hand piece at first) and 5x Warlock back then. Good ol times.
good old times- Sorcs could streak and were mobile(not snared to dead or stuck in air or snared by gap closing )
- Sorc had some nice melee combos: dawnbreaker+proxi (really punishing against stacked players)
- Sorc had sustain
- Sorc could run dw
- Sorc did not need endless fury to kill something
- Sorc mines were dangerous
- Sorc did not have to farm vDSA for a staff to have a cc since frags did cc
- Sorc had a burst ulti with dawnbreaker that does not warn your enemy
- Sorcs did not have to spam shields every 4 sec out of combat just so a ganker could not instant kill them (It is really tired some to just stand there spamming shields because you know that the nb will just destroy you the moment you did not spam it)
Why are you in a position where you might be ganked? This is a l2p issue. Either dont go solo or accept you cannot panic button survive an assassination.
Lol, what? [snip]
Edit: messed up the quote
No...
If nightblade dies from well timed 5 skill sorc combo its MIMIMI MIIM IMIMIMI on forums
If sorc forgets to apply a shield for a sec and dies IN JUST ONE SECOND from 2 nightblade buttons ITS BALANCE
Do you roll when a comet comes down on your face? Yes the 5 skill combo contains a comet. They usually not die at it, but after they will explode since most of them are a tragic non L2P example.
If you don't know how to build your sorc right that's a problem on your end. Tempars and dks sustain heavy armor just fine. And you will too since shields will hold longer in it and you don't need to recast them every second in a fight. You can also hit softcap resists wearing fortified brass which can be light. Losing like 3k magicka. Big deal.In pvp it will be ok. Might be even better then it is now on live in heavy. In pve all mages will suffer greatly. Those tiny shields won't do in any serious content.
In what universe can it be better then on live. For your shields to be equal strenght with those on live now you have to sacrifice both your *** sustain and your *** SD. For your shields to be strong enough you have to be so tanky to which point you dont even need shields anymore because your're a pure tank. Dont talk crap!
Templars + DKs have a lot better damage in their skills and by far superior sustain from sorcs.
Heavy armor cant work on sorcs since the class have the lowest damage output, despite what forum whiners claim ofc.
Light armor + recovery set(mandatory) + fortified brass is a build GOOD enough to kill mudcrabs or 300cp plebs.
When a sorc cant apply a pressure to its enemy, its a dead sorc.
But i dont understand exactly what your "comments" try to prove here, can you explain me please?
PS
shields are gone back to 6s
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 6, 2025 6:56PM4 -
Sygil05✭✭✭
If you don't know how to build your sorc right that's a problem on your end. Tempars and dks sustain heavy armor just fine. And you will too since shields will hold longer in it and you don't need to recast them every second in a fight. You can also hit softcap resists wearing fortified brass which can be light. Losing like 3k magicka. Big deal.In pvp it will be ok. Might be even better then it is now on live in heavy. In pve all mages will suffer greatly. Those tiny shields won't do in any serious content.
In what universe can it be better then on live. For your shields to be equal strenght with those on live now you have to sacrifice both your *** sustain and your *** SD. For your shields to be strong enough you have to be so tanky to which point you dont even need shields anymore because your're a pure tank. Dont talk crap!
That's a ridiculous statement - these smaller shields will never last their full duration in competitive PVE/PVP. Templars and DKs sustain in heavy armor because they're entirely different classes with different passives and skill sets that lend themselves to that playstyle. For a sorc to run heavy armor, they're going to be making a lot of other tradeoffs that make them even less competitive than they are now.5 -
Witar✭✭✭✭✭
They are pretty much the same size in pvp. And will have your resists which can go pretty high netting up to 50% damage reduction on them.these smaller shields
Edited by Witar on October 12, 2018 2:27PMIt cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills,
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.0 -
lokulin✭✭✭✭✭Just adding my 2c worth after attempting vMA on the PTS. The shield changes are terrible. Shielding pet sorc was a viable vMA build for people with high latency or poor response times. The nerf to shields means you essentially run out of magicka before being able to do any serious damage. The 1 second cast time was better than this change.
I've rolled with all the previous changes but this change feels like the one that may cause me to finally quit the game for good.
Edit: I keep seeing the reason for the neft to shields being to make healers relevant again. If that is the case then I don't see how that helps in solo content like vMA.
Edited by lokulin on October 12, 2018 2:49PMI've hidden your signature.4 -
MalagenR✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_MichaelServotte @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_GaryA
Can you all help the community understand why our class has been gutted and destroyed. We have significantly more pages than any other class on the forums - 60 pages - that means so many customers took significantly more time out of their lives than any other class to respond to the changes you all decided to implement in direct contradiction of what the class representatives mentioned.
I think it would be great to get a couple of clear answers to the following questions so that we wouldn't feel like we are being ignored even though we seem to be wasting our personal time on providing you feedback on YOUR product:
1. Why are you ignoring the feedback from class representatives and taking a completely different direction with the class?
2. Why did you spend so little time testing your new changes prior to rolling them out on the public test server? It's clear this occurred because the Bastion star was never considered, there are significant bugs around shield strength showing in the character sheet,etc.
3. Is this really just an attempt to lower sorc capabilities? Does the development team feel that the Sorc class was over performing and needed to be toned down?
4. Did anyone on the development team discuss what the potential impacts of these changes would be, and what were the results of said conversation?
Any help would be great, as paying customers we deserve some responses, all due respect, have a nice day!11 -
Sygil05✭✭✭I don't expect ZOS to step in and explain what they're trying to do here, but it sure would be good customer service if they did so. By limiting their explanations to the dev comments in the patch notes, they leave the player base to interpret the changes as they wish.
For me, that means thinking that these changes represent the fact that they have no long term vision for the various classes and how they should be played. The dev team bounces from one skill to the next, tinkering as they go, with no larger understanding of how their changes will impact the system they're working in. When they hit a wall with one of their ad hoc skill changes, they just go back and adjust something else, that then has other unintended side-affects resulting in yet more changes that are not fully vetted or planned at the start.
Hopefully I'm wrong, though.13 -
MalagenR✭✭✭✭✭I don't expect ZOS to step in and explain what they're trying to do here, but it sure would be good customer service if they did so. By limiting their explanations to the dev comments in the patch notes, they leave the player base to interpret the changes as they wish.
For me, that means thinking that these changes represent the fact that they have no long term vision for the various classes and how they should be played. The dev team bounces from one skill to the next, tinkering as they go, with no larger understanding of how their changes will impact the system they're working in. When they hit a wall with one of their ad hoc skill changes, they just go back and adjust something else, that then has other unintended side-affects resulting in yet more changes that are not fully vetted or planned at the start.
Hopefully I'm wrong, though.
I mean that's literally all I'm asking them to do, if you're proud of your work and understand your job you should be able to explain your decisions to your customers. This is like base level customer service, at this point there is no customer service, and honestly it seems like they are embarrassed / ashamed that they outed themselves as not knowing their own game and unwilling to admit it.
I just want them to explain that it isn't the case, they have things well in hand, they hear us and recognize they made some mistakes with Sorc for Murkmire, and then start actually putting in work to make things better. I'm considering sending a LinkedIn message with this forum thread to Rob. I'm a pretty disgruntled customer at this point and don't see any other solution.9 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
Well You just said by Yourself then that You dont remember how combat was looking. You just remember what You've been using but not how stats and fights were like. Magicka/health ratio changed a lot btw , even DDs had more health then magicka and good trial DPS was around 1k which is like todays 10k so yeah we got buffed a little. There is lot of holes in Your memories from that times.
While I don't recall if I had NNNN.01 or NNNN.02 of this and that stat, I recall I had no sustain or survivability issue at all, in any content. We had some challenging content in the first months, but then ZOS nerfed it very hard. I recall myself soloing group content with no magicka shortage and with a Crystal Frags build (and before that, an Elemental Ring build), which nowadays is the quintessence of "the magicka sucks".
Well since You dont recall things excatly as they were it's not wise to make certain statements. You remember things were fine or even more then fine but You dont remember why and excatly when since I think You also slightly conntent memories from before and short after Tamriel Unlimited as one.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 6, 2025 6:57PM1 -
lokulin✭✭✭✭✭I don't expect ZOS to step in and explain what they're trying to do here, but it sure would be good customer service if they did so. By limiting their explanations to the dev comments in the patch notes, they leave the player base to interpret the changes as they wish.
For me, that means thinking that these changes represent the fact that they have no long term vision for the various classes and how they should be played. The dev team bounces from one skill to the next, tinkering as they go, with no larger understanding of how their changes will impact the system they're working in. When they hit a wall with one of their ad hoc skill changes, they just go back and adjust something else, that then has other unintended side-affects resulting in yet more changes that are not fully vetted or planned at the start.
Hopefully I'm wrong, though.
I keep hearing the excuse that they nerfed shields to make healers more viable but that seems to be an excuse made up by the community. Lack of information breeds stress and distrust. Why should I spend hours relearning my sorc after putting hundreds of hours in to get her to where she is if ZOS is then just going to gut that play style again in the future.
As I've said before, I am ok with small incremental changes as they keep things interesting but this heavy handed approach is getting tiresome.
I can only assume that they want to drive away long term paying veteran customers so they can hook in new fresh players they can fleece with their horrible crates.
Unfortunately I am starting to feel like ESO is going to be the game that ruiins the TES franchise for a lot of people.I've hidden your signature.13 -
maboleth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Um, have you tried playing mag sorc in pvp? I did with my pet sorc and it was okay, even without any changing in the attributes/enchantments/traits/playstyle. Can't speak for PVE, but ZOS did listen to the feedback.
We went from dreadful cast shields -> 40% hp shields -> 50% hp shields with additional 20% for pets. AND we have pets immune to damage in arenas, dungeons and trials and one vMA boss.
It is much better and it is viable in PVP. As far as I'm concerned, I have no more complaints. Sorry to disappoint naysayers.0 -
BrightOblivion✭✭✭✭✭Um, have you tried playing mag sorc in pvp? I did with my pet sorc and it was okay, even without any changing in the attributes/enchantments/traits/playstyle. Can't speak for PVE, but ZOS did listen to the feedback.
We went from dreadful cast shields -> 40% hp shields -> 50% hp shields with additional 20% for pets. AND we have pets immune to damage in arenas, dungeons and trials and one vMA boss.
It is much better and it is viable in PVP. As far as I'm concerned, I have no more complaints. Sorry to disappoint naysayers.
I have one correction to make to your post. The pets aren't getting a bonus beyond the 50%. The 20% increase is from 40% to 50%.
It's like if you had a 20k health pool, and used hardened ward on PTS before this week, you got a 40% of health 8k shield. If you use it this week, it's a 10k shield. Over the 40% shield, it's a 20% increase, but it's still only 50% of your max health in shields to both you and your pet. Not 50% to you and 60% to the pet.4 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
Well You just said by Yourself then that You dont remember how combat was looking. You just remember what You've been using but not how stats and fights were like. Magicka/health ratio changed a lot btw , even DDs had more health then magicka and good trial DPS was around 1k which is like todays 10k so yeah we got buffed a little. There is lot of holes in Your memories from that times.
While I don't recall if I had NNNN.01 or NNNN.02 of this and that stat, I recall I had no sustain or survivability issue at all, in any content. We had some challenging content in the first months, but then ZOS nerfed it very hard. I recall myself soloing group content with no magicka shortage and with a Crystal Frags build (and before that, an Elemental Ring build), which nowadays is the quintessence of "the magicka sucks".
Well since You dont recall things excatly as they were it's not wise to make certain statements. You remember things were fine or even more then fine but You dont remember why and excatly when since I think You also slightly conntent memories from before and short after Tamriel Unlimited as one.
I don't have Alzheimer. I am able to recall if gameplay was good and natural or sucked like it's doing since regen nerf. Of course we weren't godlike, but we were plenty playable. Way more than now.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 6, 2025 6:58PMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO2 -
maboleth✭✭✭✭✭
✭nvm, you're correct, hardened ward gives 20% increase over other morphs.
Edited by maboleth on October 13, 2018 1:01AM0 -
arasysb14_ESO✭✭✭✭After 60+ pages long feedback from this PTS cycle it all boils down to this:
ZOS launches new content, game takes one step forward but ends up taking two steps back with continuous cycle of nerfs..
Arasys Llanor, CP 800+ Magicka Sorcerer NA
Please do not use the same Fallout 76 engine for TES VI5 -
BrightOblivion✭✭✭✭✭Don't take my word for it. Have some actual, honest-to-goodness proof taken from the PTS just now (shield numbers courtesy of Foundry Tactical Combat (FTC):
As a bonus, here's the build I was using to get to those values, just in case you want to replicate my results (courtesy of Overview):
The only things that aren't on there are the passives (of which I took all the ones in my 3 class lines, destro staff, light armor, mage's guild, and undaunted, and the top 3 in both medium armor and heavy armor. Of those, the only one that has a major effect is the Magicka Controller passive which gives 2% bonus max mag for having Inner Light (or any mages guild ability) on my bar. Note that this is the toon I've been using to try to pin down where hardened ward works and doesn't, so if there are some gear choices that might make you scratch your head (like not using any rings, or training on the shoulders), don't worry about it. It's not meant to run into Cyrodiil or vMA. It's meant to be a testing platform for one or two specific things.
As to the rest of your previously quoted post, I hope you'll excuse me if I'm skeptical of your assessment of magsorc in PvP. You use things like "it's okay" or "it's better" without providing concrete evidence or a baseline. What is "okay"? How do you define "viable"? Is it only capable of killing CP300s in a zerg, if that? Where are you testing it? Battleground? Cyrodiil? If in battlegrounds, which ones? What was your KDA? Better than what? Than live? Than what we had with the cast time? I mean, it's definitely better than the cast time, but that doesn't inherently make it "good" or "viable" or even "decent."
The truth is that, outside of pets being invulnerable in trials, dungeons, and group arenas (making them not need to be summoned as often in those areas if you don't die), I've seen no changes this patch that address pain points that have repeatedly been brought up regarding playing as a magsorc. Bar bloat remains a serious issue, and has been worsened by the loss of the third bar. Sustain on a light attack rotation is still nightmarish, and, if their attempts to address it were the new Overload and Dark Conversion (which still has a 1.2 second cast time, and now gives 60% of the resources up front and 40% over the next 20 seconds), then they remain inadequate, particularly in PvE. Beyond that, in the same PTS cycle, they've made Frags more responsive and then added a minimum travel time which makes it clunky to use again. They nerfed Rune Cage again. They nerfed Boundless Storm in an effort to further uniformity by nerfing a skill that wasn't overpowered or being used by everyone, after a change to shields which, if magsorcs had space on their bars, might have made it more desirable. What is worse, while the patch notes may say that the Major Expedition on that skill lasts "a maximum of 4 seconds" (which I would argue and have argued is too low for a speed-increasing effect- it's just not fun), the actual tooltip value I'm looking at on the PTS right now on Health to Mag Test is, in fact, 2.5 seconds (a full 5 second reduction from my build on live). At that point, that part of the skill has been rendered almost irrelevant. Once the one second GCD for casting it is finished, you have one and a half seconds (lag permitting) to do something with your Major Expedition, before the speed boost once again disappears into the aether. (One elephant two el--- Ohp. You're slow again.) And with all of these alterations and nerfs, they've kept the skill costs roughly the same, meaning that, with the possible exception of Dark Conversion, we are spending just as much, if not more, of a magicka bar that is going to be getting smaller as magsorcs have to build into some more health in order to increase what would be an under-10k hardened ward in most PvE builds, or invest further into resistances through sets and sacrifice more sustain in PvP, and receiving (again with the exception of dark conversion) less for that cost.
"But the pets and daedric prey got a cost decrease!" Yes. Yes, they did. But most pet builds are based around heavy attacks and have very few, if any, issues with sustain on Live anyway. So I'm not sure that counts as "addressing sustain."
Beyond that, we are a week and two days from Murkmire and all of these changes going live and have yet to go a single week without at least one morph of Conjured Ward being broken so that we could test how they perform. And Hardened Ward is still bugged and not providing a shield if you're over a specific max magicka value, which is relatively easy to reach as a petsorc.
So while you may have no complaints, there are still plenty to be had, and your assessment doesn't alleviate any of them, much less disappoint any who might be naysayers.Edited by BrightOblivion on October 13, 2018 2:59AM22 -
lokulin✭✭✭✭✭BrightOblivion wrote: »Don't take my word for it. Have some actual, honest-to-goodness proof taken from the PTS just now (shield numbers courtesy of Foundry Tactical Combat (FTC):
As a bonus, here's the build I was using to get to those values, just in case you want to replicate my results (courtesy of Overview):
The only things that aren't on there are the passives (of which I took all the ones in my 3 class lines, destro staff, light armor, mage's guild, and undaunted, and the top 3 in both medium armor and heavy armor. Of those, the only one that has a major effect is the Magicka Controller passive which gives 2% bonus max mag for having Inner Light (or any mages guild ability) on my bar. Note that this is the toon I've been using to try to pin down where hardened ward works and doesn't, so if there are some gear choices that might make you scratch your head (like not using any rings, or training on the shoulders), don't worry about it. It's not meant to run into Cyrodiil or vMA. It's meant to be a testing platform for one or two specific things.
As to the rest of your previously quoted post, I hope you'll excuse me if I'm skeptical of your assessment of magsorc in PvP. You use things like "it's okay" or "it's better" without providing concrete evidence or a baseline. What is "okay"? How do you define "viable"? Is it only capable of killing CP300s in a zerg, if that? Where are you testing it? Battleground? Cyrodiil? If in battlegrounds, which ones? What was your KDA? Better than what? Than live? Than what we had with the cast time? I mean, it's definitely better than the cast time, but that doesn't inherently make it "good" or "viable" or even "decent."
The truth is that, outside of pets being invulnerable in trials, dungeons, and group arenas (making them not need to be summoned as often in those areas if you don't die), I've seen no changes this patch that address pain points that have repeatedly been brought up regarding playing as a magsorc. Bar bloat remains a serious issue, and has been worsened by the loss of the third bar. Sustain on a light attack rotation is still nightmarish, and, if their attempts to address it were the new Overload and Dark Conversion (which still has a 1.2 second cast time, and now gives 60% of the resources up front and 40% over the next 20 seconds), then they remain inadequate, particularly in PvE. Beyond that, in the same PTS cycle, they've made Frags more responsive and then added a minimum travel time which makes it clunky to use again. They nerfed Rune Cage again. They nerfed Boundless Storm in an effort to further uniformity by nerfing a skill that wasn't overpowered or being used by everyone, after a change to shields which, if magsorcs had space on their bars, might have made it more desirable. What is worse, while the patch notes may say that the Major Expedition on that skill lasts "a maximum of 4 seconds" (which I would argue and have argued is too low for a speed-increasing effect- it's just not fun), the actual tooltip value I'm looking at on the PTS right now on Health to Mag Test is, in fact, 2.5 seconds (a full 5 second reduction from my build on live). At that point, that part of the skill has been rendered almost irrelevant. Once the one second GCD for casting it is finished, you have one second (lag permitting) to do something with your Major Expedition, before the speed boost once again disappears into the aether. And with all of these alterations and nerfs, they've kept the skill costs roughly the same, meaning that, with the possible exception of Dark Conversion, we are spending just as much, if not more, of a magicka bar that is going to be getting smaller as magsorcs have to build into some more health in order to increase what would be an under-10k hardened ward in most PvE builds, or invest further into resistances through sets and sacrifice more sustain in PvP, and receiving (again with the exception of dark conversion) less for that cost.
"But the pets and daedric prey got a cost decrease!" Yes. Yes, they did. But most pet builds are based around heavy attacks and have very few, if any, issues with sustain on Live anyway. So I'm not sure that counts as "addressing sustain."
Beyond that, we are a week and two days from Murkmire and all of these changes going live and have yet to go a single week without at least one morph of Conjured Ward being broken so that we could test how they perform. And Hardened Ward is still bugged and not providing a shield if you're over a specific max magicka value, which is relatively easy to reach as a petsorc.
So while you may have no complaints, there are still plenty to be, and your assessment doesn't alleviate any of them, much less disappoint any who might be naysayers.
Brilliant comment. I've attempted to test the shield changes on test but as you have pointed out my hardened ward build is broken on my pet sorc.I've hidden your signature.1 -
BrightOblivion✭✭✭✭✭BrightOblivion wrote: »Don't take my word for it. Have some actual, honest-to-goodness proof taken from the PTS just now (shield numbers courtesy of Foundry Tactical Combat (FTC):
As a bonus, here's the build I was using to get to those values, just in case you want to replicate my results (courtesy of Overview):
The only things that aren't on there are the passives (of which I took all the ones in my 3 class lines, destro staff, light armor, mage's guild, and undaunted, and the top 3 in both medium armor and heavy armor. Of those, the only one that has a major effect is the Magicka Controller passive which gives 2% bonus max mag for having Inner Light (or any mages guild ability) on my bar. Note that this is the toon I've been using to try to pin down where hardened ward works and doesn't, so if there are some gear choices that might make you scratch your head (like not using any rings, or training on the shoulders), don't worry about it. It's not meant to run into Cyrodiil or vMA. It's meant to be a testing platform for one or two specific things.
As to the rest of your previously quoted post, I hope you'll excuse me if I'm skeptical of your assessment of magsorc in PvP. You use things like "it's okay" or "it's better" without providing concrete evidence or a baseline. What is "okay"? How do you define "viable"? Is it only capable of killing CP300s in a zerg, if that? Where are you testing it? Battleground? Cyrodiil? If in battlegrounds, which ones? What was your KDA? Better than what? Than live? Than what we had with the cast time? I mean, it's definitely better than the cast time, but that doesn't inherently make it "good" or "viable" or even "decent."
The truth is that, outside of pets being invulnerable in trials, dungeons, and group arenas (making them not need to be summoned as often in those areas if you don't die), I've seen no changes this patch that address pain points that have repeatedly been brought up regarding playing as a magsorc. Bar bloat remains a serious issue, and has been worsened by the loss of the third bar. Sustain on a light attack rotation is still nightmarish, and, if their attempts to address it were the new Overload and Dark Conversion (which still has a 1.2 second cast time, and now gives 60% of the resources up front and 40% over the next 20 seconds), then they remain inadequate, particularly in PvE. Beyond that, in the same PTS cycle, they've made Frags more responsive and then added a minimum travel time which makes it clunky to use again. They nerfed Rune Cage again. They nerfed Boundless Storm in an effort to further uniformity by nerfing a skill that wasn't overpowered or being used by everyone, after a change to shields which, if magsorcs had space on their bars, might have made it more desirable. What is worse, while the patch notes may say that the Major Expedition on that skill lasts "a maximum of 4 seconds" (which I would argue and have argued is too low for a speed-increasing effect- it's just not fun), the actual tooltip value I'm looking at on the PTS right now on Health to Mag Test is, in fact, 2.5 seconds (a full 5 second reduction from my build on live). At that point, that part of the skill has been rendered almost irrelevant. Once the one second GCD for casting it is finished, you have one second (lag permitting) to do something with your Major Expedition, before the speed boost once again disappears into the aether. And with all of these alterations and nerfs, they've kept the skill costs roughly the same, meaning that, with the possible exception of Dark Conversion, we are spending just as much, if not more, of a magicka bar that is going to be getting smaller as magsorcs have to build into some more health in order to increase what would be an under-10k hardened ward in most PvE builds, or invest further into resistances through sets and sacrifice more sustain in PvP, and receiving (again with the exception of dark conversion) less for that cost.
"But the pets and daedric prey got a cost decrease!" Yes. Yes, they did. But most pet builds are based around heavy attacks and have very few, if any, issues with sustain on Live anyway. So I'm not sure that counts as "addressing sustain."
Beyond that, we are a week and two days from Murkmire and all of these changes going live and have yet to go a single week without at least one morph of Conjured Ward being broken so that we could test how they perform. And Hardened Ward is still bugged and not providing a shield if you're over a specific max magicka value, which is relatively easy to reach as a petsorc.
So while you may have no complaints, there are still plenty to be, and your assessment doesn't alleviate any of them, much less disappoint any who might be naysayers.
Brilliant comment. I've attempted to test the shield changes on test but as you have pointed out my hardened ward build is broken on my pet sorc.
Yep. That toon in the screenshots is the one I used to try to pinpoint where Hardened Ward breaks (hence the weird build decisions). But even if they manage to fix it on Monday, that leaves us with one week- ONE - to do any tests to verify whether it's sufficient before the current state of imbalance is locked in place for at least the next month and a half (if considering when the next PTS cycle will likely start), or three months (if considering live release to live release).
Of the five PTS cycles I've born witness to (I came to the game just before Morrowind went Live), this one absolutely frustrates me the most. It's not even a contest.Edited by BrightOblivion on October 13, 2018 3:00AM1 -
lokulin✭✭✭✭✭BrightOblivion wrote: »Yep. That toon in the screenshots is the one I used to try to pinpoint where Hardened Ward breaks (hence the weird build decisions). But even if they manage to fix it on Monday, that leaves us with one week- ONE - to do any tests to verify whether it's sufficient before the current state of imbalance is locked in place for at least the next month and a half (if considering when the next PTS cycle will likely start), or three months (if considering live release to live release).
Of the five PTS cycles I've born witness to (I came to the game just before Morrowind went Live), this one absolutely frustrates me the most. It's not even a contest.
I think this is my fourth or maybe fifth PTS cycle and it is the worst I have seen so far and like you the one that has frustrated and worried me the most. I tried both empowered ward and harness magicka as drop in replacements for hardened and neither were particularly effective for my play style in vMA. Very few people in my guilds are on the PTS so I couldn't test any dungeons or trials but I think my survivability, sustain and dps issues in vMA were indicative of the issues a lot of people are going to face. Not an elite level player but have sunk a lot of hours (and dollars) in to this game.I've hidden your signature.8 -
Heymexa✭✭✭PVE
New Overload is a worthless ability. Small damage, long animation.
Sustain - absent. We have been asking for Sustain for a long time, but we are being offered Overload
Survival. In the best builds for DPS - survival rate is weak. Weaker than other classes.
PVP
Crystal Fragments - it's easier to wait for the train, than to wait until the fragment hits the target.
Shields - oooopsssss
________________________________________________________________
Eventually:
New patch - new nerf. Nerfs, nerfs, nerfs, nerfs. 4.2.x - Fatality.
Developers hate this class. Do not play for this class. The best destination is Master Crafter.
Thank you, ZOS.
Edited by Heymexa on October 13, 2018 12:57PM9
https://youtu.be/24n9fYPHkfI