The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
We will be performing maintenance for patch 10.0.2 on the PTS on Monday at 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC).
PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer
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Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »It's kinda obvious devs needs to take something away so they're choosing nerfing abilities.
If CP is the problem, instead of crippling the gameplay we love,
ZOS should rather abolish the ill-designed CP system.
What to do with a patient suffering from cancer?
Remove organs and amputate limbs where the cancer spreads to?
Or remove the cancer as the source of the problem?
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
Well You just said by Yourself then that You dont remember how combat was looking. You just remember what You've been using but not how stats and fights were like. Magicka/health ratio changed a lot btw , even DDs had more health then magicka and good trial DPS was around 1k which is like todays 10k so yeah we got buffed a little. There is lot of holes in Your memories from that times.
While I don't recall if I had NNNN.01 or NNNN.02 of this and that stat, I recall I had no sustain or survivability issue at all, in any content. We had some challenging content in the first months, but then ZOS nerfed it very hard. I recall myself soloing group content with no magicka shortage and with a Crystal Frags build (and before that, an Elemental Ring build), which nowadays is the quintessence of "the magicka sucks".Edited by Vahrokh on October 11, 2018 3:49AMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO2 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Bergzorn
Sure. But if I want to play a character who is stupidly tanky I can do that better on any other class, and some (StamWarden *cough*) even offer a lot more killing potential while doing so.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
GrigorijMalahevich✭✭✭✭✭Last time sorc was fun when Trapping webs was magicka...
No chance to reinstall the game for me, hehe
PC/EU 800 CP.
PvP MagSorc.Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq5 -
Bergzorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Bergzorn
Sure. But if I want to play a character who is stupidly tanky I can do that better on any other class, and some (StamWarden *cough*) even offer a lot more killing potential while doing so.
I agree.
But i was amazed by the survivability. As a long-term magsorc player, I'm used to actively defend myself by warding and positioning. Now suddenly I was able to passively mitigate a lot of damage (I knew the numbers but have to admit that I underestimated this a lot) and combine this with the ward (wich did not even benefit from my resistances yet). I just slapped this on, no experience with the setup, no undead passive atm, and quickly got some ridiculous 1vX facetanking situations.
It's rather boring, so I won't use this setup regularly. Magsorc lacks the HOTs to fully utilize the mitigation potential. Wards take execute damage and our burst heal has a cast time. Also the damage is absolutely lacking in comparison to heavy stamina setups. Good players will kill you 1v1 since you can' pressure them and they can go full ham on you.
But that is not what players will see. They will see a facetanking sorc and fury/implosion in their death recap.
no CP PvP PC/EU
EP Zergborn
DC Zerg Beacon
guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@BergzornBut that is not what players will see. They will see a facetanking sorc and fury/implosion in their death recap.
Yes, that's my expectation as well. It won't stop.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭In pvp it will be ok. Might be even better then it is now on live in heavy. In pve all mages will suffer greatly. Those tiny shields won't do in any serious content.
In what universe can it be better then on live. For your shields to be equal strenght with those on live now you have to sacrifice both your *** sustain and your *** SD. For your shields to be strong enough you have to be so tanky to which point you dont even need shields anymore because your're a pure tank. Dont talk crap!7 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭In pvp it will be ok. Might be even better then it is now on live in heavy. In pve all mages will suffer greatly. Those tiny shields won't do in any serious content.
In what universe can it be better then on live. For your shields to be equal strenght with those on live now you have to sacrifice both your *** sustain and your *** SD. For your shields to be strong enough you have to be so tanky to which point you dont even need shields anymore because your're a pure tank. Dont talk crap!
Ahh, but if you are a pure tank, those shields will be extremely effective.
But yeah, for any sorc that wants to do damage in pvp - its a big nerf.
That said, what I don't know is if murkmire blocking reduces damage taken by shields - or does that still not apply like on live? I mean logically, it would be based on the order in which the defence gets hit..
Old shield was based on the idea of it being like a bubble - so anything hit the shield first, then if it got through, you could block - and what was left hit your armour..
But now - its like the shield sits close to the skin - under the armour - otherwise, how could your armour 'protect' the shield? - which surely means that logically, you should be able to block the damage before it gets to your armour, and then to the shield.. ?
Edited by Biro123 on October 11, 2018 10:23AMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Biro123
As far as I have followed the discussion in @paulsimonps damage mitigation thread blocking is factored in after the shield, so it doesn’t reduce the damage the shield takes at all.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Biro123
As far as I have followed the discussion in @paulsimonps damage mitigation thread blocking is factored in after the shield, so it doesn’t reduce the damage the shield takes at all.
That's what I expected - but it just isn't logical!!! (he says waving around a stick, cunjoring magical shields from nowhere while running around on a battlefield in a bikini)Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Biro123
As far as I have followed the discussion in @paulsimonps damage mitigation thread blocking is factored in after the shield, so it doesn’t reduce the damage the shield takes at all.
That's what I expected - but it just isn't logical!!! (he says waving around a stick, cunjoring magical shields from nowhere while running around on a battlefield in a bikini)
He writes:Also yes, blocking and anything increasing block mitigation is the only thing that mitigates after the damage shield and you will still be costed stamina if your shield doesn't break while blocking. Most likely this is cause it still helps prevent many forms of CC and the game doesn't wish to look at what type of attack it is. The real value of shields for non blocking targets is that it is now truly an extension of your Health Bar, its a temporary increase of your max health, or that is the way you could look at it when not accounting for overflow and blocking.
Logic =/ ESO
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeah, that's how I see em now - they function almost exactly like health - but with the benefit of being proactive and non-debuffable - and it seems the cost of not benefitting from block..
The synergies still aren't quite there.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yeah, that's how I see em now - they function almost exactly like health - but with the benefit of being proactive and non-debuffable - and it seems the cost of not benefitting from block..
The synergies still aren't quite there.
@Biro123
Actually you just brought up a really interesting point there "non-debuffable". Shields either scale of your max health or are capped by a % of your max health. I and probably others tend to forget that Minor Mangle is a thing. That could actually lower shield amount now if they are at the 40/50% cap or if its a health based shield. I need to go test this now and see if it really does
1 -
swirve✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »It's kinda obvious devs needs to take something away so they're choosing nerfing abilities.
If CP is the problem, instead of crippling the gameplay we love,
ZOS should rather abolish the ill-designed CP system.
What to do with a patient suffering from cancer?
Remove organs and amputate limbs where the cancer spreads to?
Or remove the cancer as the source of the problem?
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
I remember running 4x Martial Knowledge (with a VR 13 Hand piece at first) and 5x Warlock back then. Good ol times.
good old times
- Sorcs could streak and were mobile(not snared to dead or stuck in air or snared by gap closing )
- Sorc had some nice melee combos: dawnbreaker+proxi (really punishing against stacked players)
- Sorc had sustain
- Sorc could run dw
- Sorc did not need endless fury to kill something
- Sorc mines were dangerous
- Sorc did not have to farm vDSA for a staff to have a cc since frags did cc
- Sorc had a burst ulti with dawnbreaker that does not warn your enemy
- Sorcs did not have to spam shields every 4 sec out of combat just so a ganker could not instant kill them (It is really tired some to just stand there spamming shields because you know that the nb will just destroy you the moment you did not spam it)
Why are you in a position where you might be ganked? This is a l2p issue. Either dont go solo or accept you cannot panic button survive an assassination.0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »It's kinda obvious devs needs to take something away so they're choosing nerfing abilities.
If CP is the problem, instead of crippling the gameplay we love,
ZOS should rather abolish the ill-designed CP system.
What to do with a patient suffering from cancer?
Remove organs and amputate limbs where the cancer spreads to?
Or remove the cancer as the source of the problem?
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
I remember running 4x Martial Knowledge (with a VR 13 Hand piece at first) and 5x Warlock back then. Good ol times.
good old times- Sorcs could streak and were mobile(not snared to dead or stuck in air or snared by gap closing )
- Sorc had some nice melee combos: dawnbreaker+proxi (really punishing against stacked players)
- Sorc had sustain
- Sorc could run dw
- Sorc did not need endless fury to kill something
- Sorc mines were dangerous
- Sorc did not have to farm vDSA for a staff to have a cc since frags did cc
- Sorc had a burst ulti with dawnbreaker that does not warn your enemy
- Sorcs did not have to spam shields every 4 sec out of combat just so a ganker could not instant kill them (It is really tired some to just stand there spamming shields because you know that the nb will just destroy you the moment you did not spam it)
Why are you in a position where you might be ganked? This is a l2p issue. Either dont go solo or accept you cannot panic button survive an assassination.
Is it a L2P issue that nightblades whine about sorc burst in forums for 4 years while they can die from a nb burst in 1.5 sec?
Are you serious?
Or you think that nightblades deserve to 1shot while a sorc but chase kite and dps for 5 mins to score a kill? Is that your "balanced L2P" PvP ?
Sorcs are FORCED to run 0 impen and hide behind shields as we NEED those small pieces well fitted because he have 0 defensives besides 1 shield(yes one,the other is not sorc toolkit) and we need big pieces infused to get that extra damage we dont have because WE ARE NOT WHINEBLADES to have a better burst with 3 key combo that needs 0 timing but just correct alignment.16 -
Bergzorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭BalticBlues wrote: »It's kinda obvious devs needs to take something away so they're choosing nerfing abilities.
If CP is the problem, instead of crippling the gameplay we love,
ZOS should rather abolish the ill-designed CP system.
What to do with a patient suffering from cancer?
Remove organs and amputate limbs where the cancer spreads to?
Or remove the cancer as the source of the problem?
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
I remember running 4x Martial Knowledge (with a VR 13 Hand piece at first) and 5x Warlock back then. Good ol times.
good old times- Sorcs could streak and were mobile(not snared to dead or stuck in air or snared by gap closing )
- Sorc had some nice melee combos: dawnbreaker+proxi (really punishing against stacked players)
- Sorc had sustain
- Sorc could run dw
- Sorc did not need endless fury to kill something
- Sorc mines were dangerous
- Sorc did not have to farm vDSA for a staff to have a cc since frags did cc
- Sorc had a burst ulti with dawnbreaker that does not warn your enemy
- Sorcs did not have to spam shields every 4 sec out of combat just so a ganker could not instant kill them (It is really tired some to just stand there spamming shields because you know that the nb will just destroy you the moment you did not spam it)
Why are you in a position where you might be ganked? This is a l2p issue. Either dont go solo or accept you cannot panic button survive an assassination.
Lol, what? GTFO.
Edit: messed up the quoteEdited by Bergzorn on October 11, 2018 5:33PMno CP PvP PC/EU
EP Zergborn
DC Zerg Beacon
guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored5 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »It's kinda obvious devs needs to take something away so they're choosing nerfing abilities.
If CP is the problem, instead of crippling the gameplay we love,
ZOS should rather abolish the ill-designed CP system.
What to do with a patient suffering from cancer?
Remove organs and amputate limbs where the cancer spreads to?
Or remove the cancer as the source of the problem?
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
I remember running 4x Martial Knowledge (with a VR 13 Hand piece at first) and 5x Warlock back then. Good ol times.
good old times- Sorcs could streak and were mobile(not snared to dead or stuck in air or snared by gap closing )
- Sorc had some nice melee combos: dawnbreaker+proxi (really punishing against stacked players)
- Sorc had sustain
- Sorc could run dw
- Sorc did not need endless fury to kill something
- Sorc mines were dangerous
- Sorc did not have to farm vDSA for a staff to have a cc since frags did cc
- Sorc had a burst ulti with dawnbreaker that does not warn your enemy
- Sorcs did not have to spam shields every 4 sec out of combat just so a ganker could not instant kill them (It is really tired some to just stand there spamming shields because you know that the nb will just destroy you the moment you did not spam it)
Why are you in a position where you might be ganked? This is a l2p issue. Either dont go solo or accept you cannot panic button survive an assassination.
Lol, what? GTFO.
Edit: messed up the quote
No...
If nightblade dies from well timed 5 skill sorc combo its MIMIMI MIIM IMIMIMI on forums
If sorc forgets to apply a shield for a sec and dies IN JUST ONE SECOND from 2 nightblade buttons ITS BALANCE23 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭In pvp it will be ok. Might be even better then it is now on live in heavy. In pve all mages will suffer greatly. Those tiny shields won't do in any serious content.
In what universe can it be better then on live. For your shields to be equal strenght with those on live now you have to sacrifice both your *** sustain and your *** SD. For your shields to be strong enough you have to be so tanky to which point you dont even need shields anymore because your're a pure tank. Dont talk crap!
Ahh, but if you are a pure tank, those shields will be extremely effective.
But yeah, for any sorc that wants to do damage in pvp - its a big nerf.
That said, what I don't know is if murkmire blocking reduces damage taken by shields - or does that still not apply like on live? I mean logically, it would be based on the order in which the defence gets hit..
Old shield was based on the idea of it being like a bubble - so anything hit the shield first, then if it got through, you could block - and what was left hit your armour..
But now - its like the shield sits close to the skin - under the armour - otherwise, how could your armour 'protect' the shield? - which surely means that logically, you should be able to block the damage before it gets to your armour, and then to the shield.. ?
To be honest it didnt even cross my mind, but when you put it that way it sure seem logical. Maybe it could also be viable running ice staff pressure build with lots of snare capability and tanky as ***. But ultimately ZoS probably wont do anything on that matter since they didnt even think of it, just like i didnt.
0 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭BalticBlues wrote: »It's kinda obvious devs needs to take something away so they're choosing nerfing abilities.
If CP is the problem, instead of crippling the gameplay we love,
ZOS should rather abolish the ill-designed CP system.
What to do with a patient suffering from cancer?
Remove organs and amputate limbs where the cancer spreads to?
Or remove the cancer as the source of the problem?
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
I remember running 4x Martial Knowledge (with a VR 13 Hand piece at first) and 5x Warlock back then. Good ol times.
good old times- Sorcs could streak and were mobile(not snared to dead or stuck in air or snared by gap closing )
- Sorc had some nice melee combos: dawnbreaker+proxi (really punishing against stacked players)
- Sorc had sustain
- Sorc could run dw
- Sorc did not need endless fury to kill something
- Sorc mines were dangerous
- Sorc did not have to farm vDSA for a staff to have a cc since frags did cc
- Sorc had a burst ulti with dawnbreaker that does not warn your enemy
- Sorcs did not have to spam shields every 4 sec out of combat just so a ganker could not instant kill them (It is really tired some to just stand there spamming shields because you know that the nb will just destroy you the moment you did not spam it)
Why are you in a position where you might be ganked? This is a l2p issue. Either dont go solo or accept you cannot panic button survive an assassination.
Lol, what? GTFO.
Edit: messed up the quote
No...
If nightblade dies from well timed 5 skill sorc combo its MIMIMI MIIM IMIMIMI on forums
If sorc forgets to apply a shield for a sec and dies IN JUST ONE SECOND from 2 nightblade buttons ITS BALANCE
Im glad someone said it. so true..20 -
Witar✭✭✭✭✭
Thought it's impossible to die to 5 skill combo on nb since rolldodge kinda negates at least 3 of themBalticBlues wrote: »It's kinda obvious devs needs to take something away so they're choosing nerfing abilities.
If CP is the problem, instead of crippling the gameplay we love,
ZOS should rather abolish the ill-designed CP system.
What to do with a patient suffering from cancer?
Remove organs and amputate limbs where the cancer spreads to?
Or remove the cancer as the source of the problem?
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
I remember running 4x Martial Knowledge (with a VR 13 Hand piece at first) and 5x Warlock back then. Good ol times.
good old times- Sorcs could streak and were mobile(not snared to dead or stuck in air or snared by gap closing )
- Sorc had some nice melee combos: dawnbreaker+proxi (really punishing against stacked players)
- Sorc had sustain
- Sorc could run dw
- Sorc did not need endless fury to kill something
- Sorc mines were dangerous
- Sorc did not have to farm vDSA for a staff to have a cc since frags did cc
- Sorc had a burst ulti with dawnbreaker that does not warn your enemy
- Sorcs did not have to spam shields every 4 sec out of combat just so a ganker could not instant kill them (It is really tired some to just stand there spamming shields because you know that the nb will just destroy you the moment you did not spam it)
Why are you in a position where you might be ganked? This is a l2p issue. Either dont go solo or accept you cannot panic button survive an assassination.
Lol, what? GTFO.
Edit: messed up the quote
No...
If nightblade dies from well timed 5 skill sorc combo its MIMIMI MIIM IMIMIMI on forums
If sorc forgets to apply a shield for a sec and dies IN JUST ONE SECOND from 2 nightblade buttons ITS BALANCE
It cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills,
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.1 -
Witar✭✭✭✭✭
If you don't know how to build your sorc right that's a problem on your end. Tempars and dks sustain heavy armor just fine. And you will too since shields will hold longer in it and you don't need to recast them every second in a fight. You can also hit softcap resists wearing fortified brass which can be light. Losing like 3k magicka. Big deal.In pvp it will be ok. Might be even better then it is now on live in heavy. In pve all mages will suffer greatly. Those tiny shields won't do in any serious content.
In what universe can it be better then on live. For your shields to be equal strenght with those on live now you have to sacrifice both your *** sustain and your *** SD. For your shields to be strong enough you have to be so tanky to which point you dont even need shields anymore because your're a pure tank. Dont talk crap!
Edited by Witar on October 12, 2018 2:02PMIt cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills,
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.1 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭
Thought it's impossible to die to 5 skill combo on nb since rolldodge kinda negates at least 3 of themBalticBlues wrote: »It's kinda obvious devs needs to take something away so they're choosing nerfing abilities.
If CP is the problem, instead of crippling the gameplay we love,
ZOS should rather abolish the ill-designed CP system.
What to do with a patient suffering from cancer?
Remove organs and amputate limbs where the cancer spreads to?
Or remove the cancer as the source of the problem?
problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it
Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.
I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.
BUT
I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.
Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.
Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.
@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.
I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).
Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.
NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.
Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.
Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality
... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.
It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.
It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.
Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.
I used AA set first and a mashup with Martial Knowledge later. I recall using 1 (one) regen enchant and that's it.
And what was Your max health/stamina/magicka ? Similar ratio to current ones ? Can Youi deny that average DD had around 1/3 more health then offensive resource ? How about wep/spell dmg (staves scaled from wep dmg back then) ? Were You able to reach similar values to current ones ? Also were You able to sustain easily light/medium attack rotation without using spell symetry or fast ulti gen on mag dk ?
I am not an accountant, with accurate logs of 4 years ago. I used AA gear and, later, Martial Knowledge. I don't think they have changed health / magicka ratio. I did have to regrind AA gear, because my original AA gear was considered a different set than IA we get now.
I remember running 4x Martial Knowledge (with a VR 13 Hand piece at first) and 5x Warlock back then. Good ol times.
good old times- Sorcs could streak and were mobile(not snared to dead or stuck in air or snared by gap closing )
- Sorc had some nice melee combos: dawnbreaker+proxi (really punishing against stacked players)
- Sorc had sustain
- Sorc could run dw
- Sorc did not need endless fury to kill something
- Sorc mines were dangerous
- Sorc did not have to farm vDSA for a staff to have a cc since frags did cc
- Sorc had a burst ulti with dawnbreaker that does not warn your enemy
- Sorcs did not have to spam shields every 4 sec out of combat just so a ganker could not instant kill them (It is really tired some to just stand there spamming shields because you know that the nb will just destroy you the moment you did not spam it)
Why are you in a position where you might be ganked? This is a l2p issue. Either dont go solo or accept you cannot panic button survive an assassination.
Lol, what? GTFO.
Edit: messed up the quote
No...
If nightblade dies from well timed 5 skill sorc combo its MIMIMI MIIM IMIMIMI on forums
If sorc forgets to apply a shield for a sec and dies IN JUST ONE SECOND from 2 nightblade buttons ITS BALANCE
Do you roll when a comet comes down on your face? Yes the 5 skill combo contains a comet. They usually not die at it, but after they will explode since most of them are a tragic non L2P example.
If you don't know how to build your sorc right that's a problem on your end. Tempars and dks sustain heavy armor just fine. And you will too since shields will hold longer in it and you don't need to recast them every second in a fight. You can also hit softcap resists wearing fortified brass which can be light. Losing like 3k magicka. Big deal.In pvp it will be ok. Might be even better then it is now on live in heavy. In pve all mages will suffer greatly. Those tiny shields won't do in any serious content.
In what universe can it be better then on live. For your shields to be equal strenght with those on live now you have to sacrifice both your *** sustain and your *** SD. For your shields to be strong enough you have to be so tanky to which point you dont even need shields anymore because your're a pure tank. Dont talk crap!
Templars + DKs have a lot better damage in their skills and by far superior sustain from sorcs.
Heavy armor cant work on sorcs since the class have the lowest damage output, despite what forum whiners claim ofc.
Light armor + recovery set(mandatory) + fortified brass is a build GOOD enough to kill mudcrabs or 300cp plebs.
When a sorc cant apply a pressure to its enemy, its a dead sorc.
But i dont understand exactly what your "comments" try to prove here, can you explain me please?
PS
shields are gone back to 6s4 -
Witar✭✭✭✭✭
If you don't maybe you shouldn't try to respond. Makes you look kinda stupid.
But i dont understand exactly what your "comments" try to prove here, can you explain me please?
Edited by Witar on October 12, 2018 2:13PMIt cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills,
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭
Says who?
The guy who claims that sorcs can run heavy armor on magica mode and fortified brass?
Wonder since you have 0 knowledge on the class and generally on what you talk about, what that would make you look like bud?4 -
Witar✭✭✭✭✭
I'm running shackle+riposte+engine guardian now and can sustain just fine. Will trade riposte for fortibrass losing 120 recovery and 2k magicka. Big sustain and damage issues awaiting according to some forum guy who can't understand simpliest comments, lol.
Edited by Witar on October 12, 2018 2:23PMIt cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills,
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.0 -
Sygil05✭✭✭
If you don't know how to build your sorc right that's a problem on your end. Tempars and dks sustain heavy armor just fine. And you will too since shields will hold longer in it and you don't need to recast them every second in a fight. You can also hit softcap resists wearing fortified brass which can be light. Losing like 3k magicka. Big deal.In pvp it will be ok. Might be even better then it is now on live in heavy. In pve all mages will suffer greatly. Those tiny shields won't do in any serious content.
In what universe can it be better then on live. For your shields to be equal strenght with those on live now you have to sacrifice both your *** sustain and your *** SD. For your shields to be strong enough you have to be so tanky to which point you dont even need shields anymore because your're a pure tank. Dont talk crap!
That's a ridiculous statement - these smaller shields will never last their full duration in competitive PVE/PVP. Templars and DKs sustain in heavy armor because they're entirely different classes with different passives and skill sets that lend themselves to that playstyle. For a sorc to run heavy armor, they're going to be making a lot of other tradeoffs that make them even less competitive than they are now.5 -
Witar✭✭✭✭✭
They are pretty much the same size in pvp. And will have your resists which can go pretty high netting up to 50% damage reduction on them.these smaller shields
Edited by Witar on October 12, 2018 2:27PMIt cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills,
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.0 -
lokulin✭✭✭✭✭Just adding my 2c worth after attempting vMA on the PTS. The shield changes are terrible. Shielding pet sorc was a viable vMA build for people with high latency or poor response times. The nerf to shields means you essentially run out of magicka before being able to do any serious damage. The 1 second cast time was better than this change.
I've rolled with all the previous changes but this change feels like the one that may cause me to finally quit the game for good.
Edit: I keep seeing the reason for the neft to shields being to make healers relevant again. If that is the case then I don't see how that helps in solo content like vMA.
Edited by lokulin on October 12, 2018 2:49PMI've hidden your signature.4 -
MalagenR✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_MichaelServotte @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_GaryA
Can you all help the community understand why our class has been gutted and destroyed. We have significantly more pages than any other class on the forums - 60 pages - that means so many customers took significantly more time out of their lives than any other class to respond to the changes you all decided to implement in direct contradiction of what the class representatives mentioned.
I think it would be great to get a couple of clear answers to the following questions so that we wouldn't feel like we are being ignored even though we seem to be wasting our personal time on providing you feedback on YOUR product:
1. Why are you ignoring the feedback from class representatives and taking a completely different direction with the class?
2. Why did you spend so little time testing your new changes prior to rolling them out on the public test server? It's clear this occurred because the Bastion star was never considered, there are significant bugs around shield strength showing in the character sheet,etc.
3. Is this really just an attempt to lower sorc capabilities? Does the development team feel that the Sorc class was over performing and needed to be toned down?
4. Did anyone on the development team discuss what the potential impacts of these changes would be, and what were the results of said conversation?
Any help would be great, as paying customers we deserve some responses, all due respect, have a nice day!11
