PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

GrigorijMalahevich

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Magsorc are absolutely fine on PTS now. Arguably stronger with the improved LA passives.

You can’t face-tank unlimited amounts of damage anymore but forgive me for my limited sympathy on that front.

The fact that a glass cannon Stamblade or Stamden could wail on you non-stop for over a minute without breaking through the shields was a little bit ridiculous.

Can you elaborate on “glass cannon stamden” part please

Feanor

The hilarious thing is that they said making Frags more effective was on their list - and then they nerf the already slow travel speed. So funny.

lucky_dutch

Valera Progib wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Magsorc are absolutely fine on PTS now. Arguably stronger with the improved LA passives.

You can’t face-tank unlimited amounts of damage anymore but forgive me for my limited sympathy on that front.

The fact that a glass cannon Stamblade or Stamden could wail on you non-stop for over a minute without breaking through the shields was a little bit ridiculous.

Can you elaborate on “glass cannon stamden” part please

Medium 2h Dw

I know Stamden can never be truly ‘glass cannon’ but my point was it’s a build built for damage not survivability and yet it still struggles to break through the outrageous strength of shield stacking on live. It had to go.

That’s not to say that the changes they’ve made are ideal but Magsorcs will definitely be ok if played more cautiously.

Biro123

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Magsorc are absolutely fine on PTS now. Arguably stronger with the improved LA passives.

You can’t face-tank unlimited amounts of damage anymore but forgive me for my limited sympathy on that front.

The fact that a glass cannon Stamblade or Stamden could wail on you non-stop for over a minute without breaking through the shields was a little bit ridiculous.

Can you elaborate on “glass cannon stamden” part please

Medium 2h Dw

I know Stamden can never be truly ‘glass cannon’ but my point was it’s a build built for damage not survivability and yet it still struggles to break through the outrageous strength of shield stacking on live. It had to go.

That’s not to say that the changes they’ve made are ideal but Magsorcs will definitely be ok if played more cautiously.

And that guy who's wailing in the sorc' for over a minute is getting instantly exploded by the sorcs cannon right? That's how he lasts for a minute with his glass defence?
People really need to understand that very very few live sorcs build as glass cannons. There is no glass and no cannon.

Lord-Otto

Lucky, how much have you played magsorc in PvP?

Sennecca

maboleth wrote: »

Um, have you tried playing mag sorc in pvp? I did with my pet sorc and it was okay, even without any changing in the attributes/enchantments/traits/playstyle. Can't speak for PVE, but ZOS did listen to the feedback.

We went from dreadful cast shields -> 40% hp shields -> 50% hp shields with additional 20% for pets. AND we have pets immune to damage in arenas, dungeons and trials and one vMA boss.

It is much better and it is viable in PVP. As far as I'm concerned, I have no more complaints. Sorry to disappoint naysayers.

Even if they did fix the pet build, what about those of us who feel playing with pets is a boring 4 button grind ( Especially with the loss of the 3rd bar and pets taking up 4 bar slots). Most Pet sorc builds are: blockade, daedric prey, force pulse and frags when it procs. There really isn't any variety.

Making pets unkillable in dungeons etc, and ignoring those of us who prefer to play without a pet is like telling the rest of us "sorcs must be played with pets. This takes care of your heals.

However, without a pet, sorcerers slot 2 non damage causing skills in order to have buffs to get a dps that still ranks near the bottom? (Bound aegis and inner light). (3 on one bar if you count power surge just to get prophecy and access to an rng heal) This to get the buffs other classes have with some of their skills that actually can cause damage. Why do dragonknights for example have a skill that causes x damage and gives them major fracture, does x damage and gives major prophecy, does x damage and heals you... etc.

If they are going to nerf the shields, the least they can do is give the sorceror some skills to slot that give debuffs, buffs and cause damage, cause damage and heal. Things other classes have.

lucky_dutch

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Lucky, how much have you played magsorc in PvP?

My 3rd most played class overall and I only PvP with it.

Shield stacking was way too strong though. I can sustain against a single attacker pretty much indefinitely on live.

The shield changes put a massive dent in Magsorc 1vX but overall the LA changes are probably a buff to small-scale and group so Magsorc will be absolutely fine. Still the kings of BGs too.

Chilly-McFreeze

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Still the kings of BGs too.

Because of the questionable scoring system in one (1) bg mode, right?

Biro123

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Lucky, how much have you played magsorc in PvP?

My 3rd most played class overall and I only PvP with it.

Shield stacking was way too strong though. I can sustain against a single attacker pretty much indefinitely on live.

The shield changes put a massive dent in Magsorc 1vX but overall the LA changes are probably a buff to small-scale and group so Magsorc will be absolutely fine. Still the kings of BGs too.

So can any other class, properly built.

Your point is?

lucky_dutch

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Still the kings of BGs too.

Because of the questionable scoring system in one (1) bg mode, right?

They’re awesome in any mode. Really powerful burst combos that can done from the safety of range and decent mobility options (relatively speaking, these options will be even stronger now everyone is slower).

If you’re playing with your team and coordinating, they can be more godmode than any other class.

lucky_dutch

Biro123 wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Lucky, how much have you played magsorc in PvP?

My 3rd most played class overall and I only PvP with it.

Shield stacking was way too strong though. I can sustain against a single attacker pretty much indefinitely on live.

The shield changes put a massive dent in Magsorc 1vX but overall the LA changes are probably a buff to small-scale and group so Magsorc will be absolutely fine. Still the kings of BGs too.

So can any other class, properly built.

Your point is?

Other classes have to build for it. Magsorcs just focused on stacking Mag & Mag recovery then slapped 2 shields on their bars and become unkillable.

You’re trying to defend the indefensible because you’re too accustomed to your crutch. 1vX aside, Magsorc will be top-tier in Murkmire. Almost certainly the best mag class, only challenged by Magplar.

Feanor

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Still the kings of BGs too.

Because of the questionable scoring system in one (1) bg mode, right?

They’re awesome in any mode. Really powerful burst combos that can done from the safety of range and decent mobility options (relatively speaking, these options will be even stronger now everyone is slower).

If you’re playing with your team and coordinating, they can be more godmode than any other class.

„Powerful“ burst that needs 4 GCDs and that you don’t even have the bar space for if you want a semblance of sustain and survivability...

GrigorijMalahevich

Defense; sustain; damage - you can choose only two.

Vahrokh

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Magsorc are absolutely fine on PTS now. Arguably stronger with the improved LA passives.

You can’t face-tank unlimited amounts of damage anymore but forgive me for my limited sympathy on that front.

The fact that a glass cannon Stamblade or Stamden could wail on you non-stop for over a minute without breaking through the shields was a little bit ridiculous.

I am sorry the evil magsorc has killed you in PvP, but here are thousands of us who can't care the less about the whole ESO PvP fiasco and love to quest, challenge themselves with public dungeons and world bosses and so on.

They are DESTROYING our gameplay and when you destroy someone's reason to play, he... surprise... shall just stop playing.

I only and exclusively do 1 to 2 trials a week and then 4+ a day of questing, world bosses etc.

Do you believe I am going to pay ESO+ for 1 / 2 trials and that's it? No, because 4+ hours now are not filled by ESO any more, and I am pushed to find another MMO do to so.

lucky_dutch

Vahrokh wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Magsorc are absolutely fine on PTS now. Arguably stronger with the improved LA passives.

You can’t face-tank unlimited amounts of damage anymore but forgive me for my limited sympathy on that front.

The fact that a glass cannon Stamblade or Stamden could wail on you non-stop for over a minute without breaking through the shields was a little bit ridiculous.

I am sorry the evil magsorc has killed you in PvP, but here are thousands of us who can't care the less about the whole ESO PvP fiasco and love to quest, challenge themselves with public dungeons and world bosses and so on.

They are DESTROYING our gameplay and when you destroy someone's reason to play, he... surprise... shall just stop playing.

I only and exclusively do 1 to 2 trials a week and then 4+ a day of questing, world bosses etc.

Do you believe I am going to pay ESO+ for 1 / 2 trials and that's it? No, because 4+ hours now are not filled by ESO any more, and I am pushed to find another MMO do to so.

I’m not saying the changes are well thought out, in saying shield stacking was obnoxious and had to go.

Whether they’ve adequately replaced it with an alternative means of survival is another matter.

They haven’t DESTROYED your gameplay though, you now just have to build more resistances into your build which means you’ll kill things a bit slower. You should still be able to tackle all the same challenges though. In solo-PvE more than any other form of gameplay you can adapt to changes.

joaaocaampos

Emma_Overload wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

@Tasear @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RobGarrett

What I expect from next PTS Patch (4.2.4 or 4.2.5)!

Light Armor > Annulment > Dampen Magic:

• This morph now also increases the shield cap to 50% of your Max Health, previously 40%.
• This morph now also increases the shield cap by 2% of your Max Health for each piece of light armor worn, previously 40%.

Champion Points > Bastion:

• Increases the effectiveness of damage absorbing effects by [0-25]%. (This effect is useless now)
• Reduces damage taken while using a damage shield ability by [0-25]%.

Sorcerer > Daedric Summoning > Daedric Protection (Passive):

• Increases your Health Recovery, Stamina Recovery and Magicka Recovery by X% when a Daedric Summoning ability is slotted.

Done!

Yep, this such an obvious fix for Bastion, should be a no-brainer for ZOS... meaning it will be 3 or 4 patches before they get around to it

Agree. Yeah! Bastion is useless now and is not a true counterpoint to Shattering Blows. With my suggestion, all damage shield users will be happy.

Bergzorn

lucky_dutch wrote: »

I’m not saying the changes are well thought out, in saying shield stacking was obnoxious and had to go.

Not a single thing changed in direct regard to shield stacking.

Anzriel

Vahrokh wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Magsorc are absolutely fine on PTS now. Arguably stronger with the improved LA passives.

You can’t face-tank unlimited amounts of damage anymore but forgive me for my limited sympathy on that front.

The fact that a glass cannon Stamblade or Stamden could wail on you non-stop for over a minute without breaking through the shields was a little bit ridiculous.

I am sorry the evil magsorc has killed you in PvP, but here are thousands of us who can't care the less about the whole ESO PvP fiasco and love to quest, challenge themselves with public dungeons and world bosses and so on.

They are DESTROYING our gameplay and when you destroy someone's reason to play, he... surprise... shall just stop playing.

I only and exclusively do 1 to 2 trials a week and then 4+ a day of questing, world bosses etc.

Do you believe I am going to pay ESO+ for 1 / 2 trials and that's it? No, because 4+ hours now are not filled by ESO any more, and I am pushed to find another MMO do to so.

Keep in mind shields also have resistance now, so in pve especially that should help quite a bit. They may be smaller, but they can also take more hits. That should at least help somewhat.

Tonturri

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Magsorc are absolutely fine on PTS now. Arguably stronger with the improved LA passives.

You can’t face-tank unlimited amounts of damage anymore but forgive me for my limited sympathy on that front.

The fact that a glass cannon Stamblade or Stamden could wail on you non-stop for over a minute without breaking through the shields was a little bit ridiculous.

You couldn't face tank against anyone except people who didnt know what they are doing/had bad builds. Unless you mean spamming defenses and delaying your inevitable death, but then anyone can do that.

Source - have a glass cannon mag blade, stamblade, and a mag sorc meant to actually do stuff (so none of that 'no impen' bs).

GrigorijMalahevich

@lucky_dutch yeah ok, shield stack had to go, but how are new changes supporting that “decision”? If you ask me - new changes encourage shieldstack, I doubt that magsorc will be playable in light armour with one shield...

Dark deal should have been made in to what we have suggested, not what ZoS thinks as they obviously have no idea.

Nicko_Lps

Biro123 wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Magsorc are absolutely fine on PTS now. Arguably stronger with the improved LA passives.

You can’t face-tank unlimited amounts of damage anymore but forgive me for my limited sympathy on that front.

The fact that a glass cannon Stamblade or Stamden could wail on you non-stop for over a minute without breaking through the shields was a little bit ridiculous.

Can you elaborate on “glass cannon stamden” part please

Medium 2h Dw

I know Stamden can never be truly ‘glass cannon’ but my point was it’s a build built for damage not survivability and yet it still struggles to break through the outrageous strength of shield stacking on live. It had to go.

That’s not to say that the changes they’ve made are ideal but Magsorcs will definitely be ok if played more cautiously.

And that guy who's wailing in the sorc' for over a minute is getting instantly exploded by the sorcs cannon right? That's how he lasts for a minute with his glass defence?
People really need to understand that very very few live sorcs build as glass cannons. There is no glass and no cannon.

It was a BUFF with a deeper meaning of of the worst kind of nerf.

But really why does it have to travel slow?

Do incaps travel slow?
Do sup attacks travel slow?
Do any stamina ability travel slow?

Elder Stamina Online.

Biro123

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Lucky, how much have you played magsorc in PvP?

My 3rd most played class overall and I only PvP with it.

Shield stacking was way too strong though. I can sustain against a single attacker pretty much indefinitely on live.

The shield changes put a massive dent in Magsorc 1vX but overall the LA changes are probably a buff to small-scale and group so Magsorc will be absolutely fine. Still the kings of BGs too.

So can any other class, properly built.

Your point is?

Other classes have to build for it. Magsorcs just focused on stacking Mag & Mag recovery then slapped 2 shields on their bars and become unkillable.

You’re trying to defend the indefensible because you’re too accustomed to your crutch. 1vX aside, Magsorc will be top-tier in Murkmire. Almost certainly the best mag class, only challenged by Magplar.

Then please explain how the most common magsorc build that uses shacklebreaker, also needs lich and light armour to be able to sustain it, yet any old stam build can put a damage set with it, in heavy for free defence, yet sustain fine...

Building for defence, lol.

Emma_Overload

Biro123 wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Magsorc are absolutely fine on PTS now. Arguably stronger with the improved LA passives.

You can’t face-tank unlimited amounts of damage anymore but forgive me for my limited sympathy on that front.

The fact that a glass cannon Stamblade or Stamden could wail on you non-stop for over a minute without breaking through the shields was a little bit ridiculous.

Can you elaborate on “glass cannon stamden” part please

Medium 2h Dw

I know Stamden can never be truly ‘glass cannon’ but my point was it’s a build built for damage not survivability and yet it still struggles to break through the outrageous strength of shield stacking on live. It had to go.

That’s not to say that the changes they’ve made are ideal but Magsorcs will definitely be ok if played more cautiously.

And that guy who's wailing in the sorc' for over a minute is getting instantly exploded by the sorcs cannon right? That's how he lasts for a minute with his glass defence?
People really need to understand that very very few live sorcs build as glass cannons. There is no glass and no cannon.

Haha, no kidding! Why do all these alleged OP sorcs bother face-tanking armies of stamdens and stamblades for 2 minutes, when they could just vaporize them their glass cannons?

Kova

I seriously want an answer to these questions, and no one is willing to hang themselves to answer them:

If you have a high damage build "wailing on a shield stacking sorc for over a minute", then how are you doing that without running out of resources or having to actively heal damage from the sorc?

See what we're saying? You're perfectly fine with being able to pump out and mitigate damage and never run out of juice, but you get upset if a sorc gets to?

What's the logic? Make everyone understand why your playstyle is fair and balanced, but the no skill shield stacker needs a nerf.

I can't think of any reason outside of player ego.

lucky_dutch

Valera Progib wrote: »

@lucky_dutch yeah ok, shield stack had to go, but how are new changes supporting that “decision”? If you ask me - new changes encourage shieldstack, I doubt that magsorc will be playable in light armour with one shield...

Dark deal should have been made in to what we have suggested, not what ZoS thinks as they obviously have no idea.

I gotta admit, the dark deal change is a really headscratcher. That was the natural replacement for the 2nd shield but now they ruined that ability too.

Magsorc and Magblade are both in a similar place now. Nerfed shields, only healing options rely on doing damage so no use defensively, have mobility options but in both cases are a bit hit and miss.

They both need a quality, on-demand self-heal.

Biro123

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

@lucky_dutch yeah ok, shield stack had to go, but how are new changes supporting that “decision”? If you ask me - new changes encourage shieldstack, I doubt that magsorc will be playable in light armour with one shield...

Dark deal should have been made in to what we have suggested, not what ZoS thinks as they obviously have no idea.

I gotta admit, the dark deal change is a really headscratcher. That was the natural replacement for the 2nd shield but now they ruined that ability too.

Magsorc and Magblade are both in a similar place now. Nerfed shields, only healing options rely on doing damage so no use defensively, have mobility options but in both cases are a bit hit and miss.

They both need a quality, on-demand self-heal.

Now that, I can agree with.

I've always thought that building for shields, or building for mitigation/heals should both be viable choices for all mag classes.

Nicko_Lps

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

@lucky_dutch yeah ok, shield stack had to go, but how are new changes supporting that “decision”? If you ask me - new changes encourage shieldstack, I doubt that magsorc will be playable in light armour with one shield...

Dark deal should have been made in to what we have suggested, not what ZoS thinks as they obviously have no idea.

I gotta admit, the dark deal change is a really headscratcher. That was the natural replacement for the 2nd shield but now they ruined that ability too.

Magsorc and Magblade are both in a similar place now. Nerfed shields, only healing options rely on doing damage so no use defensively, have mobility options but in both cases are a bit hit and miss.

They both need a quality, on-demand self-heal.

GOOD magblades run: LA heals+FunnelHoT+Mutagen+RephresingPathHot+Passively Major ward/resolve+Major Expedition.+100% Minor maim

Magblades have several HoT + the ability to use mutagen while magsorcs cannot afford to slot mutagen unless they are zergling negatebots.


Now my guess is magblades are going to be 100% stronger after murkmire since they have insane self heals, amazing enemy debuffs and passively insane goodie buffs.


On the other hand MagSorcs have to slot a usless skill to to everything in this game:

1 for resourses
2 shields for defence
1 shield for heals
Surge for *** heals and free 20% spellpower
boundless for major ward/resolve
Streak with cost increase to avoid melee gapclosing at bigger range with 0 cost increase

And on top of that Curse+Reach+frag+Fury


How many skill slots is that? h0 h0 h0

katorga

Magsorcs just focused on stacking Mag & Mag recovery then slapped 2 shields on their bars and become unkillable.

Umm. That was never the case. I've been playing sorc since release, and every other class had no issues killing me, even well before the shield nerfs started. If sorcs were actually "unkillable", there would of been hundreds of youtube videos documenting the fact over the years.

For what its worth my most effective 1vx magsorc build stacked stam regen, for dodge rolling and used dark deal for stam regen. Shields go down in value the more opponents you have, while dodge goes up.

My Templar, on the other hand, can be build to be almost immortal, but it is more of a group/bg healer build.

steussy

This game has gotten ridiculous and had been spoiled by the ever itching nerfing fingers of the developers every update. Game over. Gg ZOS!

MalagenR

Valera Progib wrote: »

Defense; sustain; damage - you can choose only two.

stam users get sustain / defense / damage because high stam sustain allows for unlimited dodge rolls, i swear some people are not playing the same game.