PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Andferne

Irylia wrote: »

1. Frag stun
2. Streak fatigue + cost increase removed
3. Surge heal reverted back to a % of the crit
4. Ward minor protection or a cost reduction after all these nerfs in potential size.

Anything less than the above changes is murder to the class.

I would add in that the bonus magic/stamina from Daedric armor needs to be implemented as a passive.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Andferne wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

1. Frag stun
2. Streak fatigue + cost increase removed
3. Surge heal reverted back to a % of the crit
4. Ward minor protection or a cost reduction after all these nerfs in potential size.

Anything less than the above changes is murder to the class.

I would add in that the bonus magic/stamina from Daedric armor needs to be implemented as a passive.

While I dont disagree, I think we are starting to get nit picky. Sorcs need a decent CC, sustain help, reasonable heals, and a class defining defense mechanism in place first. I think this list is very good on the sorcs biggest pain points. If I were to add anything else, it would be cramped bar space with multiple toggles and now, a lack of an OL bar.

Once we get them functioning again like they are supposed to, then we can debate buffs like that.

Tonturri

Does Crushing Weapon double dip into battle spirit - damage is halved so heal is lower, and then heal is halved again? I saw a small buff to this morph in the patch notes and (for whatever reason) a nerf to Elemental Weapon. Seems like at least Crushing could use some love if it's suffering twice from BS. Stam sorc could really use the indirect love, too.

BrightOblivion

So I did some more testing with hardened ward now that the PTS is up, and I'm even more confused. Apparently, though, this bug may be attached to max mag, and no longer has anything to do with pets. Here's why I think that:

After getting to 47,332 magicka, even with a pet summoned, I cast hardened ward and received the (50% of max health) shield, with a shield the same size going to the pet.

At 47,436 magicka, only 104 magicka more (done by changing the divines on my max magicka gloves to infused), I cast hardened ward and received no shield. I unsummoned the volatile familiar, and even took that skill off my bar, cast the ward, and no shield. So something's happening in that 104 magicka that, all other things being equal, is breaking hardened ward completely, to the point where I cast it, I lose the magicka for it, but I receive no shield whatsoever.

I'm currently trying to figure out how to lower my max mag even more gradually to pinpoint where hardened ward breaks, if indeed this is the cause.

Alaztor91

Well, at least now the Hardened Ward and Dampen Magic morphs are not 100% useless. An increase to 60% HP cap would have been more appropriate imo but I guess that there is still room for tweaking.

However it seems that Bastion cp is still useless if your shield already reaches your 40%(or 50%) HP cap without it, any further changes planned for it?

ku5h

It's hilarious what ZoS managed to do here. Basically to make your shields worthwhile using, you have to run high mitigation, high crit resist, high HP build at which point your shields become redundant.
I mean this is really the art of balance. lol

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Well, at least now the Hardened Ward and Dampen Magic morphs are not 100% useless. An increase to 60% HP cap would have been more appropriate imo but I guess that there is still room for tweaking.

However it seems that Bastion cp is still useless if your shield already reaches your 40%(or 50%) HP cap without it, any further changes planned for it?

At this point, I am just going to slide all my CP from Bastion into Resistant. My guess is Bastion wont get changed this patch.

Bastion either needs to work towards increasing the health cap, or it needs to reduce damage done against shields (or just needs to be scrapped completely for something else).

Vahrokh

.

Cronopoly

Im not quitting yet but have serious reservations about Light Armor play as it looks gutted as proposed.

There was a reason succesful players stacked shields while wearing LA, you had no choice other than be 1 shot in pvp.

A measured approach would have been to only do one adjustment like crit on shields or no stacking....

Been here since launch and sometimes tried to use 1 shield in cp pvp...It 100% of the time forced you into 100% defense. Stacking gave 3 or 4 seconds for sorcs time delayed combo. Period.

ruikkarikun

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RobGarrett


Feedback for PTS Patch Notes v4.2.3:
I see zero buffs for sorc. Bad sustain, weak shields, low dps, bad selfheal, zero changes. You just want to make class dead and very very weak. I can't anymore sorry.

I think I will try Guild Wars 2.
Good luck guys, who tried to defend sorcerer but it's pointless.

Tannus15

Sooooo, no sorc sustain changes. I guess that's it for us this patch.

Lots of nerfs and some band-aid fixes for pets?
Can't say I'm overwhelmed...

Tevalaur

Between the last PTS cycle and this one, both Annulment and Conjured Ward's actual shield strength according to the tooltips reduced by a huge amount. Annulment had said it would absorb (nude, no points, no passives, no CP) up to 2713 damage, now says 181 damage. Conjured Ward (same conditions) had claimed to protect against 3003 damage, now only 199.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Was this huge last moment additional nerf intended?

Is it only a display error? Anyone with time to test what it's actually doing?

Ashtaris

ruikkarikun wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RobGarrett


Feedback for PTS Patch Notes v4.2.3:
I see zero buffs for sorc. Bad sustain, weak shields, low dps, bad selfheal, zero changes. You just want to make class dwad and very very weak. I can't anymore sorry.

I think I will try Guild Wars 2.
Good luck guys, who tried to defend sorcerer but it's pointless.

Maybe I missed something, but didn’t the patch notes state that the shield cap was raised from 40% to 50% of max health? That seems like a positive change to me. Whereas there was no positive news for stam builds that I could see, quite the contrary with all the speed nerfs.

Tonturri

Ashtaris wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RobGarrett


Feedback for PTS Patch Notes v4.2.3:
I see zero buffs for sorc. Bad sustain, weak shields, low dps, bad selfheal, zero changes. You just want to make class dwad and very very weak. I can't anymore sorry.

I think I will try Guild Wars 2.
Good luck guys, who tried to defend sorcerer but it's pointless.

Maybe I missed something, but didn’t the patch notes state that the shield cap was raised from 40% to 50% of max health? That seems like a positive change to me. Whereas there was no positive news for stam builds that I could see, quite the contrary with all the speed nerfs.

The cap being raised is a part of the morph effect of Hardened Ward and Dampen Magic. The other morphs have the previous 40%.

joaaocaampos

joaaocaampos wrote: »

My suggestion before Patch v4.2.3

• Bastion: Reduces damage taken while using a damage shield ability by [0-25]%.
• Hardened Ward (new morph effect): You gain Minor Protection (while the damage shield is active), reducing your damage taken by 8%.
• Dampen Magic (new bonus effect): Reduces damage taken while the damage shield is active by 1% for each piece of Light Armor worn (totaling 7% with 7 pieces).

So they chose to increase the cap with Hardened Ward and Dampen Magic...

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RobGarrett I have two things to complain about.

• Dampen Magic: no bonus for using 6 or 7 Light Armor pieces? Really?
• Bastion: BASTION, ZOS! BASTION! Did you forget? Or just didn't have time?

Dampen Magic

• This morph now also increases the shield cap by 2% of your Max Health for each piece of light armor worn.

Bastion
Bastion needs to be changed. Or it will be useless (for Conjured Ward and Annulment users). Looking at the Shattering Blows ("Increases your damage against targets with a damage shield by [0-25]%"), Bastion should be a counterpoint! What is the real counterpoint to Shattering Blows? Yes, something like Protection (Minor/Major Protection) buff! There are two ways to go with Bastion. I hope ZOS choose the second.

1. Increases the Health shield cap by [0-25]%.
2. Reduces damage taken while using a damage shield ability by [0-25]%

Witar

joaaocaampos wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

My suggestion before Patch v4.2.3

• Bastion: Reduces damage taken while using a damage shield ability by [0-25]%.
• Hardened Ward (new morph effect): You gain Minor Protection (while the damage shield is active), reducing your damage taken by 8%.
• Dampen Magic (new bonus effect): Reduces damage taken while the damage shield is active by 1% for each piece of Light Armor worn (totaling 7% with 7 pieces).

[*] Reduces damage taken while using a damage shield ability by [0-25]%
[/list]

Way too op. Even if it will work on shields only. Pirate Skeleton was nerfed cause of this.
They really should reconsider pve changes to shields. Pvp-wise it's ok.

joaaocaampos

Witar wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

• Reduces damage taken while using a damage shield ability by [0-25]%

Way too op. Even if it will work on shields only. Pirate Skeleton was nerfed cause of this.

Do you know Shattering Blows ("Increases your damage against targets with a damage shield by [0-25]%")? Shattering Blows needs a real counterpoint.

ShadowProc

Biro123 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Sorc will be fine for pvp. There are some great builds. Just need to change our way of thinking. Or I should say actual think about defense instead of just dumping everything into one stat. Cast time would have been to difficult to overcome but the shield change as is fine.

Please share.

No. Think for yourself.

maxlacab16_ESO

ZOS is only good at NERFING...so give them a big hand for excelling at it again!
Whom ever they are listening to, or wherever they get their misguided ideas from, please STOP!
There must be one, or even two people with some ideas on the ZOS dev team...I mean constructive ideas, not crappy "let's NERF some more" ideas!

And yes, I will quit my sub again.

Mihael

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel

1. not everyone wants to play a master destro sorc

2. in case you forgot you have a 30 day NO CP campaign and NO CP BGS by weakening shields in cp you are taking a huge dump on mag classes that use shields in no cp

Miswar

So basically only thing you did you raised the shield cap to 50% of max health? That is it?

That really makes no diffrence whatsoever. You have already screwed up the frags utterly and have give nothing in back in return. Travel time? Come on ZoS it was ALREADY SLOW before any of that nonsense.

As for the shields. What you have done is to make EvERY SORC to SHIELD STACK... lol. I find that very amusing considering that this the exact thing you were to fix!

I did ask this already who is the person in charge of these "sorc ideas" at combat team? Can he come here explain his visions and actually show some gameplay from LIVE servers at the moment. That person must be op as.... since these changes are just absurd.

It should have been enough to make shields crittable! (Also the shields could have crit) and be done with this shield nonsense... but NO you just had to mess things up and not admit that the person introducing these changes have NO CLUE whatsoever what he/she is doing as it has been proven multiple times over and over.

As for the frags, permanent sustain issues etc.. I guess it is even pointless to try point that a) Sorc is not by far best DPS in Pve nor PvP and b) Most of the other classes don't have such sustain issues whatsoever... and yes now that you messed up the dps, shields there are not much in terms passives nor heals either.

Have been doing some PvP and to justify these changes with comments like you need make a choice between offense/defense... come on LOL... the stamina dk's, wardens etc running 7th legions, troll kings, with vigor and forward momemtu,s with +30k resistances taking pretty much 0 damage while delivering DPS like no other classes could... lol.. where the choice in these kind troll dps builds??? I can tell you there is NONE.

Add these up and I guess have to congratualuate the team. Prime example on how to screw up an class and cause a lot of harm to the game population etc.

...only 1 thing to ask ... are these changes/PTS Notes that hit console when NERFmire hits live? If so goodluck with your game and goodbye.

Juhasow

Vahrokh wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

It's kinda obvious devs needs to take something away so they're choosing nerfing abilities.

If CP is the problem, instead of crippling the gameplay we love,
ZOS should rather abolish the ill-designed CP system.

What to do with a patient suffering from cancer?
Remove organs and amputate limbs where the cancer spreads to?
Or remove the cancer as the source of the problem?

problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it

Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.

I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.

BUT

I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.

Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.

Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.

@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.

bardx86

Miswar wrote: »

So basically only thing you did you raised the shield cap to 50% of max health? That is it?

That really makes no diffrence whatsoever. You have already screwed up the frags utterly and have give nothing in back in return. Travel time? Come on ZoS it was ALREADY SLOW before any of that nonsense.

As for the shields. What you have done is to make EvERY SORC to SHIELD STACK... lol. I find that very amusing considering that this the exact thing you were to fix!

I did ask this already who is the person in charge of these "sorc ideas" at combat team? Can he come here explain his visions and actually show some gameplay from LIVE servers at the moment. That person must be op as.... since these changes are just absurd.

It should have been enough to make shields crittable! (Also the shields could have crit) and be done with this shield nonsense... but NO you just had to mess things up and not admit that the person introducing these changes have NO CLUE whatsoever what he/she is doing as it has been proven multiple times over and over.

As for the frags, permanent sustain issues etc.. I guess it is even pointless to try point that a) Sorc is not by far best DPS in Pve nor PvP and b) Most of the other classes don't have such sustain issues whatsoever... and yes now that you messed up the dps, shields there are not much in terms passives nor heals either.

Have been doing some PvP and to justify these changes with comments like you need make a choice between offense/defense... come on LOL... the stamina dk's, wardens etc running 7th legions, troll kings, with vigor and forward momemtu,s with +30k resistances taking pretty much 0 damage while delivering DPS like no other classes could... lol.. where the choice in these kind troll dps builds??? I can tell you there is NONE.

Add these up and I guess have to congratualuate the team. Prime example on how to screw up an class and cause a lot of harm to the game population etc.

...only 1 thing to ask ... are these changes/PTS Notes that hit console when NERFmire hits live? If so goodluck with your game and goodbye.

Preach it brother. Damage sucks and they give us 10% more to frags? Really, is that the idea of Sorc damage rework? And you give NB's a 25% reduction from curse which already hits like a wet noodle. Zos you are so disconnected from your game its embarrassing.

Vahrokh

Juhasow wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

It's kinda obvious devs needs to take something away so they're choosing nerfing abilities.

If CP is the problem, instead of crippling the gameplay we love,
ZOS should rather abolish the ill-designed CP system.

What to do with a patient suffering from cancer?
Remove organs and amputate limbs where the cancer spreads to?
Or remove the cancer as the source of the problem?

problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it

Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.

I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.

BUT

I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.

Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.

Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.

@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.

I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).



Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.

NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.

Juhasow

Vahrokh wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

It's kinda obvious devs needs to take something away so they're choosing nerfing abilities.

If CP is the problem, instead of crippling the gameplay we love,
ZOS should rather abolish the ill-designed CP system.

What to do with a patient suffering from cancer?
Remove organs and amputate limbs where the cancer spreads to?
Or remove the cancer as the source of the problem?

problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it

Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.

I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.

BUT

I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.

Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.

Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.

@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.

I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).



Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.

NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.

Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.

maboleth

I tested my pet sorc in Cyrodiil + dueling and she's doing good.

My only remarks are:

1. Frag proc is noticeably slower and can make you think you didn't hit, so you press frags twice, starting un-procced one accidentally.
2. I had some problems to use endless fury, not firing responsively and missing my executing. Might be the case of 120-200 ping as PTS is in the US.

idk

Below are shield values for both morphs at two different health and magicka values. In both cases the magicka value is more than needed for the health cap so this is more about the health cap. These values are in a normal PvE zone.

I have also posted this in the non class specific thread since once shield is the LA shield.

Hardened Ward clearly has a formula issue. With a normal dps build it is not yielding a shield

For a normal magicka build of 17kl health and 48k magicka

Hardened Ward tooltip of 0.
Actual shield of 0

Empowering Ward
Tooltip 1,255
Actual 7,088

Dampen Magicka
Tooltip 1,561
Actual 8,578

Harness Magicka
Tooltip 1,100
Actual 6,822

Mostly in line with the performance last week except for the tooltip error and Dampen magicka now grants the added shield strength per piece of light armor worn. Above is with 7 light.

FYI. testing with higher health and it also shows the Hardened Ward is an error with the new formula.

In one build with 27k health and 38k magicka I get a

Hardened Ward
tooltip 1,195,
Actual 14k.
Dampen Magicka
Tooltip 1,239
Actual 13,637


Bastion still has no actual affect on the size of either shield with the above builds.

Vahrokh

Juhasow wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

It's kinda obvious devs needs to take something away so they're choosing nerfing abilities.

If CP is the problem, instead of crippling the gameplay we love,
ZOS should rather abolish the ill-designed CP system.

What to do with a patient suffering from cancer?
Remove organs and amputate limbs where the cancer spreads to?
Or remove the cancer as the source of the problem?

problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it

Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.

I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.

BUT

I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.

Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.

Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.

@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.

I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).



Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.

NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.

Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.

Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:

Juhasow wrote: »

You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality

... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.

It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.

It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.

BrightOblivion

idk wrote: »

Below are shield values for both morphs at two different health and magicka values. In both cases the magicka value is more than needed for the health cap so this is more about the health cap. These values are in a normal PvE zone.

I have also posted this in the non class specific thread since once shield is the LA shield.

Hardened Ward clearly has a formula issue. With a normal dps build it is not yielding a shield

For a normal magicka build of 17kl health and 48k magicka

Hardened Ward tooltip of 0.
Actual shield of 0

Empowering Ward
Tooltip 1,255
Actual 7,088

Dampen Magicka
Tooltip 1,561
Actual 8,578

Harness Magicka
Tooltip 1,100
Actual 6,822

Mostly in line with the performance last week except for the tooltip error and Dampen magicka now grants the added shield strength per piece of light armor worn. Above is with 7 light.

FYI. testing with higher health and it also shows the Hardened Ward is an error with the new formula.

In one build with 27k health and 38k magicka I get a

Hardened Ward
tooltip 1,195,
Actual 14k.
Dampen Magicka
Tooltip 1,239
Actual 13,637


Bastion still has no actual affect on the size of either shield with the above builds.

If my testing was correct earlier, the sweet spot to avoid the hardened ward bug while still getting as much mag as possible lies between 47,332 and 47,436 max mag. I basically took my standard 'stack max mag" petsorc build with necro, IA, and Ilambris on a bar with shield, liquid lightning, blockade, pet, aegis, and atro, and started fiddling with traits and enchants to lower mag and see if hardened ward worked. It didn't at 47,436. It did at 47,332.

When the thunderstorm passes here, I'll see if I can't upload and post the Overview screen for the setup I used to get to that value.

Juhasow

Vahrokh wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

It's kinda obvious devs needs to take something away so they're choosing nerfing abilities.

If CP is the problem, instead of crippling the gameplay we love,
ZOS should rather abolish the ill-designed CP system.

What to do with a patient suffering from cancer?
Remove organs and amputate limbs where the cancer spreads to?
Or remove the cancer as the source of the problem?

problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it

Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.

I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.

BUT

I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.

Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.

Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.

@Vahrokh I think You slightly missed my point. I never said smooth gameplay was impossible before Tamriel Unlimited. I said quote "people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats". Not suffering from sustain/regen issues was possible but it had some cost. Base sustain was hard especially in longer fights but You could make it better by building Your character properly and balancing stats out. You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality. That is the difference between now and then. That is the difference I was talking about.

I've done all the trials when we still had veteran levels (look at Alleviant's health bar showing her level).



Back at the time, I've soloed a ton of stuff: all world bosses but 1 and 4 men that did not have switches requiring 2 players and similar.
Never had sustain issues to be honest.

NOTA BENE
All of the above pertains to BEFORE Tamriel Unlimited.
Just in case any ZOS employee is reading this and his finger is already twitching into adding new nerfs.

Ehh I had some hopes but nvm You've missed the point entirely despite my explanation.

Oh, I have perfectly understood you. But you write:

Juhasow wrote: »

You couldnt build setup like the ones that started around 2016 where You heavily almost brainlesly invest into offensive statistics and You still have great sustain and survivality

... and my whole point is that it's simply not true. I've ALWAYS geared for maximum offensive statistics since open beta and it's done very well until today.

It's not pure DPS classes jobs to "be tanky", "slot heal staff" etc. etc. else we'd just be playing WoW druids or something and be hybrids.
The game - like WoW - should just make available proper gear sets to have tanks be optimal at tanking, healers be optimal at healing and DPS be optimal at DPS. Optimal at DPS includes "staying alive" with DPS gear, which so far has been quite possible.

It's been true for 4 years, I don't see why it should suddenly stop now.

Well actually You're lying here because with soft caps You simply couldnt build just for offensive statistics and if You did it was waste of stats. Using reduce cost or magicka regen parts of gear was a thing max magicka/stamina had a cap above whcih it was kinda pointlees to spend additional numbers in it. You simply were unable to stack just dmg stats and just dmg abilities and go for full burst rotation without backing up Your sustain. Telling that before tamriel Unlimited You were able to keep light attack rotation while investing fully into offensive statistics and beeing low health DD is simply a lie which can be disproved easily just by watching any hard mode trial clear video from 2014. I think Your memory can simply not work that great for remembering ESO early days.