PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

RMerlin · October 2018

RIP my 4 years old magsorc (for anything beyond solo questing). The change to Defensive Rune makes it a sitting duck (1.2 secs delay in a game where a ganker can unleash 40K+ damage in less than 1.2 secs is a death sentence), the change to Overload kills part of my playstyle, and the change to shields would force me to start stacking two shields instead of using only one - something I do not have the bar space for.

And reading the "developer comments" in the release notes makes me feel like the devs completely do NOT understand their own players and how they play this game. Things like "We want Sorcerers to feel like they have access to their full arsenal while in Overload mode. This ability is updated to better integrate with other abilities. As soon as you Overload light attack you can cast an ability, just like the light attacks of any other weapon set.". Has any magsorc ever asked for that on these forums? It's not what we want to use Overload for. I thought the feedback in this thread made this pretty clear. For me, Overload is about trading off versatility (losing access to hotbar swapping) in exchange for a short duration ability to nuke. OVERload describes it pretty well.

Reading these release notes have left me totally depressed this morning. My magsorc was about two weeks away from making it to Grand Overlord.

Raraaku · October 2018

I rarely play Sorc, my only one is a tank, but in terms of the shield cast times... Would being able to move/kite while casting for the dedicated shield skills help alleviate the added cast time?

Haven't been on the PTS yet since I just came back, but I know the shield issue is a sensitive one within the magicka community, and particularly Sorcerers.

RMerlin · October 2018

Raraaku wrote: »

I rarely play Sorc, my only one is a tank, but in terms of the shield cast times... Would being able to move/kite while casting for the dedicated shield skills help alleviate the added cast time?

Haven't been on the PTS yet since I just came back, but I know the shield issue is a sensitive one within the magicka community, and particularly Sorcerers.

The cast time was removed following the initial backlash. They replaced it instead with a 50% max health cap on shield size, which in itself isn't so bad. It's combined with every other nerfs at the same time that makes the whole thing really painful.

VyRox1 · October 2018

RIP Sorc, was fun as long as it lasted.

Ranger209 · October 2018

So regarding cp like hardy and elemental defender, does anyone know whether it makes more sense to put points into those things for shields or do shields benefit just from straight up physical and spell resistance in the cp trees? For non shield builds things like hardy always had more benefit. Is that true of shields now as well?

MalagenR · October 2018

The only change you'll be making in CP points is to Bastion. You won't be increasing strength 25% anymore unless you have the health to go with it. So you can spread those points to spell resist / phys resist / crit resist.

Ranger209 · October 2018

So no help for shields from ironclad, thickskin, hardy, or elemental defender for shields? just spell/phys/crit. the first four only help when shields are down is that correct?

paulsimonps · October 2018

Ranger209 wrote: »

So no help for shields from ironclad, thickskin, hardy, or elemental defender for shields? just spell/phys/crit. the first four only help when shields are down is that correct?

Incorrect. EVERYTHING except blocking and extra blocking mitigation is applied Before the shield takes damage.

Ranger209 · October 2018

@paulsimonps Thank you!!! Good to know. It is still generally thought better to put CP into those 4 things before phys/spell damage right? The payoff is better, is there a point where phys/spell damage start to have more impact than the other 4 CP's?

paulsimonps · October 2018

Ranger209 wrote: »

@paulsimonps Thank you!!! Good to know. It is still generally thought better to put CP into those 4 things before phys/spell damage right? The payoff is better, is there a point where phys/spell damage start to have more impact than the other 4 CP's?

Yes, after a while it's more worth it to put points into resistance but it's not much. Though obviously for sorcs, like this thread is about, it's more worth it than before. The indirect Nerf to bastion leaves you with more cp to spare, especially if you are at the 40/50% cap for damage shields. Though obviously for other classes/roles bastion got buffed as it's more worth it for them now.

Bergzorn · October 2018

Oh the humanity, a defensive mechanism that gets stronger when you build for defense.

rfennell_ESO · October 2018

Bergzorn wrote: »

Oh the humanity, a defensive mechanism that gets stronger when you build for defense.

The doomsaying of the anti-nerf brigade led to that. So, if you cry enough.. you will be heard and they will reverse changes and actually make something broken even better instead of adjusted according to reality.

Vahrokh · October 2018

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

Oh the humanity, a defensive mechanism that gets stronger when you build for defense.

The doomsaying of the anti-nerf brigade led to that. So, if you cry enough.. you will be heard and they will reverse changes and actually make something broken even better instead of adjusted according to reality.

Actually, nobody doomsayed or anti-nerfed a lot about PvP. People like me got banned over the PvE nerf.

Actually - again - I think the PvP change is negative. It pushes towards more shield stacking, not less. I don't PvP at all, and one reason for not PvPing is because I so hated to keep spamming 2-3 shields forever. I wish they made it impossible to stack at all.

Trinity_Is_My_Name · October 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

Oh the humanity, a defensive mechanism that gets stronger when you build for defense.

The doomsaying of the anti-nerf brigade led to that. So, if you cry enough.. you will be heard and they will reverse changes and actually make something broken even better instead of adjusted according to reality.

Actually, nobody doomsayed or anti-nerfed a lot about PvP. People like me got banned over the PvE nerf.

Actually - again - I think the PvP change is negative. It pushes towards more shield stacking, not less. I don't PvP at all, and one reason for not PvPing is because I so hated to keep spamming 2-3 shields forever. I wish they made it impossible to stack at all.

You got banned? For what if I may ask? Seriously! What the heck?

TheValar85 · October 2018

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

Oh the humanity, a defensive mechanism that gets stronger when you build for defense.

The doomsaying of the anti-nerf brigade led to that. So, if you cry enough.. you will be heard and they will reverse changes and actually make something broken even better instead of adjusted according to reality.

Actually, nobody doomsayed or anti-nerfed a lot about PvP. People like me got banned over the PvE nerf.

Actually - again - I think the PvP change is negative. It pushes towards more shield stacking, not less. I don't PvP at all, and one reason for not PvPing is because I so hated to keep spamming 2-3 shields forever. I wish they made it impossible to stack at all.

You got banned? For what if I may ask? Seriously! What the heck?

Yeah i am getting kicked out as well from every group becasue of this nerf. And i am not a noob player at all. I know every mechanics, but still now that this patch is live most of the sorcerers are treated like ***, literally. Wich is never happend before. at least on PC EU i cant comment on the situations about sorcerers on N/A.

Jaimeh · October 2018

TheValar85 wrote: »

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

Oh the humanity, a defensive mechanism that gets stronger when you build for defense.

The doomsaying of the anti-nerf brigade led to that. So, if you cry enough.. you will be heard and they will reverse changes and actually make something broken even better instead of adjusted according to reality.

Actually, nobody doomsayed or anti-nerfed a lot about PvP. People like me got banned over the PvE nerf.

Actually - again - I think the PvP change is negative. It pushes towards more shield stacking, not less. I don't PvP at all, and one reason for not PvPing is because I so hated to keep spamming 2-3 shields forever. I wish they made it impossible to stack at all.

You got banned? For what if I may ask? Seriously! What the heck?

Yeah i am getting kicked out as well from every group becasue of this nerf. And i am not a noob player at all. I know every mechanics, but still now that this patch is live most of the sorcerers are treated like ***, literally. Wich is never happend before. at least on PC EU i cant comment on the situations about sorcerers on N/A.

This is so disheartening to hear... and to think ZOS' supposed reasoning was to bring sorcs on par with other classes...

ForsakenSin · October 2018

TheValar85 wrote: »

Yeah i am getting kicked out as well from every group becasue of this nerf. And i am not a noob player at all. I know every mechanics, but still now that this patch is live most of the sorcerers are treated like ***, literally. Wich is never happend before. at least on PC EU i cant comment on the situations about sorcerers on N/A.

TheValar85 · October 2018

ForsakenSin wrote: »

TheValar85 wrote: »

Yeah i am getting kicked out as well from every group becasue of this nerf. And i am not a noob player at all. I know every mechanics, but still now that this patch is live most of the sorcerers are treated like ***, literally. Wich is never happend before. at least on PC EU i cant comment on the situations about sorcerers on N/A.

It is already going on Sir

And you know what makes it sad even more? that i am not alone. The Zone chats are full of sorcerers and they are sad, angry, dissapointed, and some of them are realy mad. Literally.

Bergzorn · October 2018

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

Oh the humanity, a defensive mechanism that gets stronger when you build for defense.

The doomsaying of the anti-nerf brigade led to that. So, if you cry enough.. you will be heard and they will reverse changes and actually make something broken even better instead of adjusted according to reality.

A one second cast time would have rendered nearly all light armor builds absolutely unplayable in PvP.

Shields taking critical damage and not preventing status effect procs is a pure nerf for PvP. Players can compensate by building for armor resistances. To overcompensate, such that it's an effective shield strength buff, you need to make serious sacrifices and find a narrow sweet spot, since lower max magica and / or lower recovery weakens your defense.

The main difference between now and before, IMO, is that magsorcs building for defense will not immediately explode once the shield drops.

Vahrokh · October 2018

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

Oh the humanity, a defensive mechanism that gets stronger when you build for defense.

The doomsaying of the anti-nerf brigade led to that. So, if you cry enough.. you will be heard and they will reverse changes and actually make something broken even better instead of adjusted according to reality.

Actually, nobody doomsayed or anti-nerfed a lot about PvP. People like me got banned over the PvE nerf.

Actually - again - I think the PvP change is negative. It pushes towards more shield stacking, not less. I don't PvP at all, and one reason for not PvPing is because I so hated to keep spamming 2-3 shields forever. I wish they made it impossible to stack at all.

You got banned? For what if I may ask? Seriously! What the heck?

Because when they released the first nerf (cast time) I did not exactly... stay quiet about it.

End result: I was right, in fact they undid that nerf.

Aldul · November 2018

How are shields stronger than before when they are critted away in an instant (or we loose lots of sustain and dmg by going with impen and protective?) an equally big nerf imo still is the loss of an overload bar tbh.

Aldul · November 2018

@rfennell_ESO
Shields have never been broken. Never, ever since the soft-cap thing loooong ago. Why is comprehension here so hard to achieve for some? Thanks, @ZOS_GinaBruno and all you others for making serious, legit concerns of the community heard.

Aldul wrote: »

How are shields stronger than before when they are critted away in an instant (or we loose lots of sustain and dmg by going with impen and protective?) an equally big nerf imo still is the loss of an overload bar tbh.

All CP implications left aside, shields really didn't become stronger. Another reason is simple gameplay: How is something "even stronger" when I have to use valuable time to cast it (2-3, even 4 different skills, every rotation and in between almost everything I do in and outside fights - 'cause who wants to be ganked by stambuilds?), while it is only helpful when bolstered up by resistances or otherwise is molten away like an Ice-Atronarch in Alikir' Sun? (with all the downsides mentioned numerously in the "anti-nerf"-qq) So, I press buttons that keep me from doing damage or CC, just to be nuked a little later? C'mon, guys. How is that not a big nerf? Cry about Sorcs NOT being nerfed away from PVP when you obviously don't have much experience in non-zerg-Sorcerer-PVP.

Bergzorn wrote: »

The main difference between now and before, IMO, is that magsorcs building for defense will not immediately explode once the shield drops.

@Bergzorn
I couldn't agree more !!!

Simple as that: A really good sorc stays a really good sorc (talking PVP and PVE, here), while an average dude like me struggles a little harder since Murkmire Patch. No reason to quit the game. Decent players usually didn't struggle to kill a shieldstacker if it wasn't Fasold or some other considerable aces. A cast time would have been a reason for me to rage until perma-ban though. Yes, I can be juvenile like that.
btw: @Derra Did we talk about full well-fitted? lol