[Class Rep] Sorcerer Feedback Thread

cpuScientist · September 2018

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

@IAVITNI

Im the guy that did not know you can side step dawnbreaker? How exactly did you gave birth to that scenario? Dont know if you duel 200cp guys but im quite 100% sure that a decent player will always land his dawnbreaker on you.

You said AoE attack, the atro DoT is not AoE attack, again you are not aware of how atro works while you talk about the wrong atro moprh and neither know how ESO works.

Sorc has the best zoning ultimates? Why dont you take MY zoning ultimates while ill take your leap/incap/permaforst?

Counterplay to zergs is dark deal? Converting my magica to health and stamina as magsorc counterplay's organized zerglings 25+?

Counterplay of magsorcs to DK's wings are mines? So as a Magsorc you kill dk's with mines and curse? Are you serious?

Counterplay to magplars are mines? A good magplar has no change vs a good magsorc, why would i counterplay them with mines? If a magplar kills a magsorc he severely outskilled him.

99% of magblades i meet they have absolutely 0 idea on how to play their class, now the 3 GOOD magblades i know will wait for mines expiration OR untill you cast them the arming time. Still you fail to realize how this game works plus a good magblade wont give a damn on your mines since their charge brings them right on your hitbox and they dont step on mines.

I am the one who is biased against magblades, yet you are the one whining on the fear of sorcs change and the slight possibility of sorcs getting their ultis reworked. Yet i clearly stated that i have 0 problem with the vast majority of magblades.

Bone pirate and frags were nerfed because non L2P against sorc whinebabies like you did their forum crusade and succeed on it.

A shifting negate will make things a lot better for sorcs and alot better for cyrodiil PING response since it will wipe out the existance of those 25+ mindless zerglings spamming skills under the protection of 4 templars+10 earthgores.

A shifting attro will make sorc having a sturdy ultimate that can be used efficiently vs players that kite around rocks and instantly LoS it once its up

A reworked instant comet will give the chance to magsorcs+magplars to have a decent ulti + magDK/magblade/magwarden to have a RANGED ulti they dont have while their ultis are the best but melee

Please, play the game L2P and it will save you from these monstrosities and jokes you post here like atro does AoE attack, dark deal saves you from zergs, DK's die in sorcs mines and all the jokes you considered as serious answers + post.

Even a top duelist can miss a DB if you predict it. Sure, more often than not its costs a dodge roll to get behind them right before the DB lands but side stepping it is possible. I've done it. Not often but I've done it.

The initial Stun is an AoE. Radius and AoE are technically interchangeable in regards to Atronach. Radius determines the area that the Atronach can affect; hence area of effect. It was just me be being to lazy to say radius and partially assuming people would be intelligent enough to understand what I meant. It appears I was wrong.

I am a magsorc main btw. Get out with the whine blades. I've been a DW magsorc for as long as I could until the max stat changes. I have 6 sorcs-2 mag, 1 healer, 1 stam, 1 tank, 1 pve dps.

I don't want my class to be stuck in an unbuffable position because the class received buffs into all the wrong areas.

If forum blades weren't a thing, I wouldn't say anything. But if you give sorcs a moving Atronach and a moving Negate, it will make the class even more annoying for potatoes to play against. Go make a thread about how shield breaker is broken and see how much support you get. Forums don't care that it ignores an entire classes defensive mechanics. All they care about is that they got hit by the sorc 3 button combo and can't get through shields.

I'd rather sorc stay mediocre for a few patches in order for the class to get actual beneficial buffs to their overall kit than get mediocre QoL buffs that prevent any real change and incite further unnecessary nerfs.

Tell me, how will a relocatable Atronach fix the class? Will it up burst? Will it reduce reliance on shield stacking? Will it help increase mobility? No. It will just make sorcs more annoying to duel with and fight open world without benefitting the class and instigating the masses.

Relocating Negate? It does nothing to zergs since they will have healers outside the radius anyways. Honestly as a sorc I don't care much about being negated myself since I'm constantly moving in open field. But that would become real annoying real fast on a magplar/magdk and then guess who comes to reinforce the nightblades on their nerf sorc crusade.

Sorc is in a horrible state right now and people still want the class nerfed. Get out with your presumptuous attitude and perceived victimization. That has never helped the sorc class and neither will your proposed buffs.

Oh and:

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

As i face 0 counterplay to a templar that looks at me purge+heal everything i do, yes he must face the same 0 counterplay with me.

That was you bud. You were crying about magplars so I gave you a means to relieve pressure against them a la mines. You talk about other classes like their easy to play. For the most part they are not. If you want to talk balance you have to remain unbiased, which for the most part, you are not.

You are probably got beaten alot by magsorcs, since you dont play a magsorc. Get out of this threat i dont really understand why you come to draw attention here with your "statements"

Crying about magplars? When i said a GOOD magplar has no chance vs a GOOD magsorc i was crying? Just in case you fail to understand it, because you fail to understand alot: A magplar has the option to do nothing but BoL+ Purge and remain there forever. If hes good enough.

Whats your problem with shifting atro? While i dont care what your problem is, when someone spends his ulti points on comet or atro and they both get easyly avoided by anybody that has normal IQ that need to change. You like it or not, if you dont like it get to the nightblade forum and plan there your secret tamriel dominance and supremacy.

So you care about potatoes being killed? Go whine on the nighblade forum that nightblade 1shot potatoes in like 1 sec then come again and cry here for a potential shifting atro.

Sorc burst does not need improvement, if you think that magsorc needs more burst go play a magplade then.
Magsorcs need a better, alot better sustain and more consistent damage. IF you increase your magsorc burst you will endup dueling people for 15 sec just because you 1shotted them.

A general rework on negate is NEEDED, time stop is 10x more effective than negate nowadays. It slows it stuns it negates healing... Negate is being removed by earthgore. Thats a full zergling meta dream we live in. Now if you think shifting negate is not good idea propose something else instead of whining like a baby. Negate is not a solo tool, if negate is being buffed that does not mean sorc will be considered buffed. Use your brain please.

You rather have mediocre sorc for a few patches more. Thats you, i have the right to have my opinion though, when you keep attacking me with plain BS that i dont know i can step aside from DB while you have no idea how your atro works just because you have the wrong morph that does AoE damage.. Find somebody else to bother, i will keep having my opinion no matter what you say.

Shifting atro isnt the problem. It would be neat. But negate should not be removed by earthgore I agree. But it definitely should not be moveable. A snack could be added at most. But to have it be shiftable, that is far and away overpowered. And would just be a Zerg tool. It has a specific use, and is meant for geoup play and coordination.

IAVITNI · September 2018

Feanor wrote: »

I'd rather sorc stay mediocre for a few patches in order for the class to get actual beneficial buffs to their overall kit than get mediocre QoL buffs that prevent any real change and incite further unnecessary nerfs.

@IAVITNI

Not gonna happen. Wrobel is already targeting shields instead.

Thought that statement was PvE oriented, although I understand that regardless it will affect PvP.

Hopefully he has the presence of mind to accompany any big changes with equivalent buffs to mobility or provide better tools that punish melee opponents for being in melee.

Lightning Armor, Streak and Mines just aren't enough.

Lightning Armor isn't worth dropping Harness for. It either needs to provide greater mobility or melee deterrence.

Streak cost too much to properly kite with. Decreasing the cost alone should be enough. Attaching snare removal on this skill would not be smart. One of the best counters to a sorc is to lock them down and pressure shields. Snare removal on Streak would over the top. It would be better served on Lightning Armor, working like Shuffle.

Mines is way too niche and too strong in those niches. Eternal Hunt does a much better job at zoning than this skill. Daedric Tomb could be changed to drop a mine every 3 seconds for 12 seconds. The root could be removed to balance. This would be as effective as Crippling Grasp but not as annoying as Minefield.

Not sure if Encase should be touched. It's great for Tanks but if Mines is changed to a useful skill, Encase has too much overlap and would most likely go unused.

On a side note, is anyone worried that stam sorcs will get nerfed due to the current meta? The class is strong in the speed meta, not surprisingly, but it still has a lot of issues that will most likely not be compensated for when the nerf bat comes.

Chilly-McFreeze · September 2018

IAVITNI wrote: »

Mines is way too niche and too strong in those niches. Eternal Hunt does a much better job at zoning than this skill. Daedric Tomb could be changed to drop a mine every 3 seconds for 12 seconds. The root could be removed to balance. This would be as effective as Crippling Grasp but not as annoying as Minefield.

Not sure if Encase should be touched. It's great for Tanks but if Mines is changed to a useful skill, Encase has too much overlap and would most likely go unused.

On a side note, is anyone worried that stam sorcs will get nerfed due to the current meta? The class is strong in the speed meta, not surprisingly, but it still has a lot of issues that will most likely not be compensated for when the nerf bat comes.

I think the bolded parts contradict themselves.

And on your question: yes, I am worried. Stam Sorcs work well with certain kind of builds (master bleeds), but are average outside of that meta.

Minalan · September 2018

Sorcs damage is fine, if you can actually spec into it. You get something like a 60K Magicka setup and it hits more than hard enough.

The problem with the class is sustain, in both PVP and PVE sorcerer suffers from high cost skills and spending more GCD on heavy attacks, or blowing half of our equipment slots on sustain when other classes DONT.

So sorc gets perceived by the players who main it as wsak, when we just need enough sustain to wear a couple of damage sets and an offensive monster pair instead.

cpuScientist · September 2018

Stamina Sorcerer is the ONLY class or sub class if you will that has no burst mechanic.

StamPlar has power of the light.
StamBlade has merciless.
StamDen has Shall.
StamDK has either dot pressure to make up for it or can use flames of Oblivion as it does scale off highest.
MagPlar has purfying light.
MagDK has Flames of Oblivion and inhale.
MagDen has shalk.
MagBlade has merciless.
MagSorc has frag.

Notice all the classes have a stamina and Magicka version of the same burst mechanic, or in DK case dot pressure.

StamSorc has nothing but a weak hurricane. Which while it does pressure. It is weak. StamSorc needs NEEDS something some kind of burst mechanic in the class. A melee frag would be perfect. But now hearing that the other morph is going to be a crappy version of frag that stuns... WTF lol.

StamSorc needs some way to access the passives some way to get some skills. As it stands the stamSorc even lost the one thing it had, speed, because everyone can just slot swifty.

Please bring up the stamSorcs in the meetings.
@NightbladeMechanics @Joy_Division @Checkmath

IAVITNI · September 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

Mines is way too niche and too strong in those niches. Eternal Hunt does a much better job at zoning than this skill. Daedric Tomb could be changed to drop a mine every 3 seconds for 12 seconds. The root could be removed to balance. This would be as effective as Crippling Grasp but not as annoying as Minefield.

Not sure if Encase should be touched. It's great for Tanks but if Mines is changed to a useful skill, Encase has too much overlap and would most likely go unused.

On a side note, is anyone worried that stam sorcs will get nerfed due to the current meta? The class is strong in the speed meta, not surprisingly, but it still has a lot of issues that will most likely not be compensated for when the nerf bat comes.

I think the bolded parts contradict themselves.

And on your question: yes, I am worried. Stam Sorcs work well with certain kind of builds (master bleeds), but are average outside of that meta.

Sorry, I meant as a gap opener they become redundant. But yes you are correct since at that point one is defensive oriented and the other offensive.

Not sure how stam sorcs can adapt any further. A stam sorc really only has Hurricane and Dark Deal. Overload bar is nice but it can't define a class on its own. So unless the subclass gets an overhaul, the only buffs go to Hurricane and Dark Deal. Dark Deal cannot be buffed, only changed entirely. A Hurricane buff wouldn't hurt but wouldn't do much for the class.

The Daedric Summoning line is such a pain. It should really provide bonuses no matter what and just increase them when pets are summoned. Maybe scale with pets, so each pet (from the skill line, or maybe not) increases the bonus. Would also be an indirect buff to Atronach, but not re-opening that discussion.

swirve · September 2018

If you want to buff Sorcs but without all the PvP crying then just focus on skills mostly used for PvE... (skills + morphs)

Definately:
Lightning fury
Daedric curse

Maybe:
Mages Fury
Lightning Form
Dark Exchange

Pulque · September 2018

Sorc tank PVE is broken.
Sorc tank doesn’t have a reliable self-healing skill. Unstable clannfear is too costly. This skill requires two slots, but only provides a very expensive burst healing. Clannfear May die easily to adds, and pet control is useless since Sorc tank does heavy attacks often and heavy attack forces clannfear to attack. Also you should add minor maim to clannfear to make it as good as shade of nightblade.
Supression field doesn’t trigger blood magic. This might be a bug.

Feanor · September 2018

@IAVITNI

There is a lot in your post I agree with. What I‘d find interesting is restoring Streak to the kiting tool it once was, with a clear distinction between the offensive and the defensive morph. So:

1. Streak keeps the stun, the duration is increased to 2 or 2.5 seconds instead of the useless 1.5, and the cost increase doesn’t kick in if you actually hit something. Range reduced to 12m from 15.

2. BoL loses the stun, but the range gets increased to 22m so you can actually get out of gap closing range with 1-2 casts and make it harder for the Usain Bolt builds to catch up. Cost increase starts at 20% instead of 50% and reaches 50% after the 3rd consecutive cast within 3 seconds.

I’d like to test this to see how it plays.

Galarthor · September 2018

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

The main reason we brought up negate is for an efficient way to end that 25+zergling parade that spam their skills under 10+ earthgores+ 4 templars.

Its not that we have to give same treatment to stamina as magica gets, more like a vigor can proc an eathgore or a bone shield could be used under heavy pressure inside a negate. That makes it a must to have both stamina and magica negated.
If they cant sprint or roll dodge out of it, EVEN better

Whatever the reason why you brought it up, the fact that Negate is utterly useless against stamina builds remains. Especially since it is the only ulti and ability in the game that get's such a treatment. From an Ultimate that cost 225 it can be expected to on both magicka and stamina opponents. And there is nothing wrong with disabling stamina based skills within the negate and forcing stamina users to also dodge roll and sprint out of it ... just like magicka builds do. Hell, half of the stamia builds are non-stop roll-dodging and sprint all the time anyway, so it shouldn't be an issue.

At the same time it would allow for some strategic game play or give the sorc some reprieve.

Beardimus · September 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@IAVITNI

There is a lot in your post I agree with. What I‘d find interesting is restoring Streak to the kiting tool it once was, with a clear distinction between the offensive and the defensive morph. So:

1. Streak keeps the stun, the duration is increased to 2 or 2.5 seconds instead of the useless 1.5, and the cost increase doesn’t kick in if you actually hit something. Range reduced to 12m from 15.

2. BoL loses the stun, but the range gets increased to 22m so you can actually get out of gap closing range with 1-2 casts and make it harder for the Usain Bolt builds to catch up. Cost increase starts at 20% instead of 50% and reaches 50% after the 3rd consecutive cast within 3 seconds.

I’d like to test this to see how it plays.

@Feanor i love this. I was nervous about reducing distance but with that longer stun you can turn and use it, impossible right now on console sensitivity.you basically give then free CC imunity

and making a real difference between offence and defence morphs this is mint.

Beardimus · September 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Sorcs damage is fine, if you can actually spec into it. You get something like a 60K Magicka setup and it hits more than hard enough.

The problem with the class is sustain, in both PVP and PVE sorcerer suffers from high cost skills and spending more GCD on heavy attacks, or blowing half of our equipment slots on sustain when other classes DONT.

So sorc gets perceived by the players who main it as wsak, when we just need enough sustain to wear a couple of damage sets and an offensive monster pair instead.

Agreed. And to give the Discord kudos i think this topic is one strong point to be discussed there. As its a real root cause issue.

I don't crave sustain i crave damage, but I'm running all sustain sets borderline hybrid stats lol.

Sort our sustain, let us run damage sets.

Make streak an effective CC choice by stunning longer. Nd we good.

Oh or just give us Frag back.

Crixus8000 · September 2018

x

Feanor wrote: »

@IAVITNI

There is a lot in your post I agree with. What I‘d find interesting is restoring Streak to the kiting tool it once was, with a clear distinction between the offensive and the defensive morph. So:

1. Streak keeps the stun, the duration is increased to 2 or 2.5 seconds instead of the useless 1.5, and the cost increase doesn’t kick in if you actually hit something. Range reduced to 12m from 15.

2. BoL loses the stun, but the range gets increased to 22m so you can actually get out of gap closing range with 1-2 casts and make it harder for the Usain Bolt builds to catch up. Cost increase starts at 20% instead of 50% and reaches 50% after the 3rd consecutive cast within 3 seconds.

I’d like to test this to see how it plays.

Love this idea. I often get asked why I don't use streak or bol on my stamsorc and I always say because I think it sucks. It wastes magicka for crit surge and dark deal and saves you from nothing. You streak twice and any build with a gapcloser is still right behined you and has now done even more dmg, any ranged build is still hitting you in the back of the head and any build (especially now) with decent speed is still right behined you still. Both morphs are overly costly, move you a short distance and are too clunky to get you out of any danger. I love the idea of the skill but everytime I use it it actually get's me killed more than saves me.

IAVITNI · September 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@IAVITNI

There is a lot in your post I agree with. What I‘d find interesting is restoring Streak to the kiting tool it once was, with a clear distinction between the offensive and the defensive morph. So:

1. Streak keeps the stun, the duration is increased to 2 or 2.5 seconds instead of the useless 1.5, and the cost increase doesn’t kick in if you actually hit something. Range reduced to 12m from 15.

2. BoL loses the stun, but the range gets increased to 22m so you can actually get out of gap closing range with 1-2 casts and make it harder for the Usain Bolt builds to catch up. Cost increase starts at 20% instead of 50% and reaches 50% after the 3rd consecutive cast within 3 seconds.

I’d like to test this to see how it plays.

The BoL change would be amazing. The 50% cost increase is from back before Morrowind resource nerfs. Not sure why a mechanic like that wasn't addressed simultaneously.

As for Streak, it would be a great change. Without the Frag CC, I preferred to stun via Streak back when I ran DW. However, I recall someone posting that the cost increase was largely due to Sorcs Streak spamming zergs to keep them locked down. Not sure if that would still be relevant in the current meta, especially with Time Stop taking over that roll, but it still needs to be considered.

A nice QoL change would be to smoothen the use of Streak. Feels incredibly clunky. At the very least, the fact that you can only Streak in the direction you face is kind of annoying, especially on console. The most impressive moment of KodiPVP for me was when he Streaked through a target dummy and re-oriented so seamlessly. That or give console a means to increase senstitivity xD

Chilly-McFreeze · September 2018

cpuScientist wrote: »

Stamina Sorcerer is the ONLY class or sub class if you will that has no burst mechanic.

StamPlar has power of the light.
StamBlade has merciless.
StamDen has Shall.
StamDK has either dot pressure to make up for it or can use flames of Oblivion as it does scale off highest.
MagPlar has purfying light.
MagDK has Flames of Oblivion and inhale.
MagDen has shalk.
MagBlade has merciless.
MagSorc has frag.

Notice all the classes have a stamina and Magicka version of the same burst mechanic, or in DK case dot pressure.

StamSorc has nothing but a weak hurricane. Which while it does pressure. It is weak. StamSorc needs NEEDS something some kind of burst mechanic in the class. A melee frag would be perfect. But now hearing that the other morph is going to be a crappy version of frag that stuns... WTF lol.

StamSorc needs some way to access the passives some way to get some skills. As it stands the stamSorc even lost the one thing it had, speed, because everyone can just slot swifty.

Please bring up the stamSorcs in the meetings.
@NightbladeMechanics @Joy_Division @Checkmath

I'd like to add another token to that. It's not only what stamsorcs lack what other classes have access to - be it a spam, burst mechanic or debuffs - nor the fact that we have to double-/ triple- slot a mostly dead skill for passives that e.g. NBs get for free (bound armor) but what used to make stam sorcs stand out now doesn't do so anymore.

Stam Sorcs used to be the most mobile class by far. With all the short commings of streak I'd rate it now subpar to shades, which since doesn't need a target anymore since a while. Don't get me startet with gap closers or the now universally available pull skill in silver leash.

However, the +10% movement speed of hurricane was extraordinary. But since summerset everyone can have 100% uptime on +60% movement speed without sprinting.

And on top of all that, the ever so loved Dark Deal got a similar skill in the psijic line. In some thread people already lecture sorc players to "just use meditation". Doesn't really matter if that advise is smart or not, but it shows something: that dark deal isn't unique nor inherently better. If the option to remain mobile outweighs the 30 % protection and no cost skill is up to debate.

Now what really sets us apart from other classes? No interesting buffs/debuffs, no overwhelming better mobility, no unique way to sustain.

Doesn't mean I see sS as worst class. It works very well with a specific arena weapon and a specific dot style, but other than that... Okay, Hurricane annoys nightblades, but so does steel tornado. And Implosion is always a hot topic. But my intention should be clear.

Galarthor · September 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Sorcs damage is fine, if you can actually spec into it. You get something like a 60K Magicka setup and it hits more than hard enough.

The problem with the class is sustain, in both PVP and PVE sorcerer suffers from high cost skills and spending more GCD on heavy attacks, or blowing half of our equipment slots on sustain when other classes DONT.

So sorc gets perceived by the players who main it as wsak, when we just need enough sustain to wear a couple of damage sets and an offensive monster pair instead.

They won't back down from forcing sorcs to use at least 1 regen / sustain set, else there won't be anybody using these sets and that's just simply not in ZOS' interest as certain dungeons will be run less and gear (which they put effort and money in) will not be used.

That in turn means the modifiers on the sorcs have to change. Both for damage and defense, since we can't reach those 60k magicka. And even if we could, we would still be at an disadvantage b/c stambuilds can stack weapon damage (which scales better) since their dodge rolls & blocks are independent of the max stamina level - unlike shields and heals.

Vahrokh · September 2018

My pain point today: STOP GUTTING OUR DAMN CLASS.

You have made streak irrelevant.
You have taken away our ONE class defining ability.
You have made us suck in 1vX.
You have destroyed our regen.
You have taken away our utility with the off-balance nerf. Now we are only taken as Alkosh-buff-bots.
You have made our DPS worse than another class imitating us.
Now we cannot even cast mage light without the gankers being notified.
You are about to "rework" (also known as butcher) our 3rd bar ultimate.
You have made AoE (our "specialty") pet specs actually negative to the success of a trial AND with inferior DPS to boot.

And now, come next patch, incoming final nerf. Nerf on something that we have had nerfed so many times already: our shields.

With the sad excuse that "healers became redundant" you are punishing *1* (one) class. Because, apparently, healers are just fine, seen by every other class point of view.

What's actually LEFT of us?

What's the next huge crown store popup, a 6k crowns class change token? Just giving us a tiny hint?

Biro123 · September 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

My pain point today: STOP GUTTING OUR DAMN CLASS.

You have made streak irrelevant.
You have taken away our ONE class defining ability.
You have made us suck in 1vX.
You have destroyed our regen.
You have taken away our utility with the off-balance nerf. Now we are only taken as Alkosh-buff-bots.
You have made our DPS worse than another class imitating us.
Now we cannot even cast mage light without the gankers being notified.
You are about to "rework" (also known as butcher) our 3rd bar ultimate.
You have made AoE (our "specialty") pet specs actually negative to the success of a trial AND with inferior DPS to boot.

And now, come next patch, incoming final nerf. Nerf on something that we have had nerfed so many times already: our shields.

With the sad excuse that "healers became redundant" you are punishing *1* (one) class. Because, apparently, healers are just fine, seen by every other class point of view.

What's actually LEFT of us?

What's the next huge crown store popup, a 6k crowns class change token? Just giving us a tiny hint?

You forgot some..
Broke our execute
Destroyed our CC
Massively nerfed the burst of our main burst ability(empowered frag)
Removed an entire playstyle alternative (DW), shoe-horning onto one build even moreso.
Made our main defence comparatively weaker each patch (as max mag never changes, but wpn-dmg keeps going up)

At least curse is still decent.. In-fact I just made a hybrid around curse (and perhaps wrath too if they ever fix it). Kind of fun for a change - not sure if I can make it competitive though..

Chilly-McFreeze · September 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

At least curse is still decent.. In-fact I just made a hybrid around curse (and perhaps wrath too if they ever fix it). Kind of fun for a change - not sure if I can make it competitive though..

Once upon a time I wanted a hybrid too. I was annoyed of being forced into one build as a magsorc and just as annoyed about the uselessness of 60%+ of my class skills/passives as stam sorc. I wanted to be that mobile, shielding, frag throwing, greatsword swinging battlemage I was in every other TES game.

But why should I now? Frags nerfed, many passives still reserved for pet usage, bar space also still an issue (even more so as the power creep rises and I'm even more gimped without +8% resource passives from a dead skill), execute broken and shields are up for another nerf. Every other class has a better toolkit for hybrids. Okay, maybe DKs not but I haven't theorycrafted a hybridDK yet.

At this point I can very well say that there's no use for a hybrid sorc anymore.

Galarthor · September 2018

I wished they kept their original design or class skills being magicka and weapon skills (except staves) being stamina and then figured out a way to make it work. It would have better fitted lore- and logic-wise, and prevented the butchering of class skills just to accommodate stamina builds, which is problematic since stamina has already more weapon skills. Which means that giving them additional class skills directly impacts the build diversity of magicka builds in the current system.

There is nothing wrong with having stamina builds spec a little bit into magicka the same way magicka builds are forced to spec into stamina for CCbreak, dodge, block, (short) sprints.

They could have worked something into the passives that would have reduced magicka costs for certain class skills (or temporarily class skills at a whole). That way stamina builds could use class abilities while still being focused on stamina. And we would have a clear cut between magicka and stamina abilities.

Do the same for magicka builds and the problem is solved.

You then can play a pure-build or a hybrid build and class abilities don't have to be gutted.

Nicko_Lps · September 2018

While i agree with all of you, we must all realize that this game is nightblade based.

When nightblade swarm whines on forums for DK's, DK's become a useless class for 2 years almost?
When nightblade swarm whines on forums about magsorcs, WE will become a useless class soon.

What i can NEVER understand is while stamscorcs are clearly ALOT better from magsocs what is the reason they dont whine about stamsorcs but they focus magosrcs?

Even at the sorcerer feedback threat they come to whine about how OP sorcs are and how NON op they are. This starts to be really ridiculous and while ZoS listens to these desperate cries for supremacy it becomes game braking.

What is the answer to nightblade forum whiners? Roll a magblade/stamblade everyone, when ZoS see a PvP and a PvE full of nightblades will eventually do something with Elder Nightblades Online.

Why Sorcs have 3 stamina class skills?
Why DK's have 2 stamina class skills?
Why templars have 3 stamina class skils?

While nightblades have like 6 or more??

Galarthor · September 2018

I wonder who at ZOS decided jump on the NB-fan train?

Kinda makes you wonder. NB (or stealth classes in general) are usually played by certain types of people, usually with big egos and an affinity to cheat / play dirty - if they didn't like this playstyle they would play something else after all.

That also explains why they are so vocal on the forums. In their mindset they are ofc the greatests. Giving that they cannot one-shot everybody and still take damage that means that there must be a class imbalance (at least in their minds). Which means NBs need buffs and everybody else needs nerfs. Oh and even if they know they are OP, they still ask for these changes b/c they like to play dirty. At the same time this also sounds like psycopaths, who can be really charming ... maybe ZOS fell for that! Or the person in charge is a NB him-/herself.

usmguy1234 · September 2018

Galarthor wrote: »

I wonder who at ZOS decided jump on the NB-fan train?

Kinda makes you wonder. NB (or stealth classes in general) are usually played by certain types of people, usually with big egos and an affinity to cheat / play dirty - if they didn't like this playstyle they would play something else after all.

That also explains why they are so vocal on the forums. In their mindset they are ofc the greatests. Giving that they cannot one-shot everybody and still take damage that means that there must be a class imbalance (at least in their minds). Which means NBs need buffs and everybody else needs nerfs. Oh and even if they know they are OP, they still ask for these changes b/c they like to play dirty. At the same time this also sounds like psycopaths, who can be really charming ... maybe ZOS fell for that! Or the person in charge is a NB him-/herself.

Rumors say wrobel plays a bleedblade. Kind of makes sense, since those are both very op and haven't been touched. Yet sorc needs "counterplay."

Galarthor · September 2018

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Rumors say wrobel plays a bleedblade. Kind of makes sense, since those are both very op and haven't been touched. Yet sorc needs "counterplay."

Makes sense. Rep meeting notes even stated that NBs needed buffing ....

I mean we layed out all the issues this class has and presented viable fixes. Yet nothing of that made intot he meeting notes ... maybe not even the meeting itself.

What is this thread good for?

Lord_Wrath · September 2018

Galarthor wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Rumors say wrobel plays a bleedblade. Kind of makes sense, since those are both very op and haven't been touched. Yet sorc needs "counterplay."

Makes sense. Rep meeting notes even stated that NBs needed buffing ....

I mean we layed out all the issues this class has and presented viable fixes. Yet nothing of that made intot he meeting notes ... maybe not even the meeting itself.

What is this thread good for?

Now you know who forgot your chicken in your McChicken.

Apherius · September 2018

Can't wait for the pts patch notes and the meeting notes, both coming with sorc nerfs and new ideas for future sorc nerfs

Kadoin · September 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

At least curse is still decent.. In-fact I just made a hybrid around curse (and perhaps wrath too if they ever fix it). Kind of fun for a change - not sure if I can make it competitive though..

Once upon a time I wanted a hybrid too. I was annoyed of being forced into one build as a magsorc and just as annoyed about the uselessness of 60%+ of my class skills/passives as stam sorc. I wanted to be that mobile, shielding, frag throwing, greatsword swinging battlemage I was in every other TES game.

But why should I now? Frags nerfed, many passives still reserved for pet usage, bar space also still an issue (even more so as the power creep rises and I'm even more gimped without +8% resource passives from a dead skill), execute broken and shields are up for another nerf. Every other class has a better toolkit for hybrids. Okay, maybe DKs not but I haven't theorycrafted a hybridDK yet.

At this point I can very well say that there's no use for a hybrid sorc anymore.

I'd actually say DK has the greatest potential for hybrid besides templar...

Edit: But yeaha, hybrid sorc is also the worst of the hybrids IMO.

Galarthor · September 2018

Apherius wrote: »

Can't wait for the pts patch notes and the meeting notes, both coming with sorc nerfs and new ideas for future sorc nerfs

Since Wrobel feels shields make healers useless, he will probably have shields damage your health instead of protecting them.

StamBlades will still cry about how OP shields are though.

swirve · September 2018

Galarthor wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Rumors say wrobel plays a bleedblade. Kind of makes sense, since those are both very op and haven't been touched. Yet sorc needs "counterplay."

Makes sense. Rep meeting notes even stated that NBs needed buffing ....

I mean we layed out all the issues this class has and presented viable fixes. Yet nothing of that made intot he meeting notes ... maybe not even the meeting itself.

What is this thread good for?

Absolutely, nothing, listen to me...

Beardimus · September 2018

I agree that complaining about wards till we read what they have done to them is a bit premature. However i think that in itself is a tad justified given the absolute mess they had made with Sorcs for a year now.

Additionally, sadly, i think ever the most optimistic of us will now doubt the effectiveness of the class reps program. The Reps took a list of feedback, much of which was listed in the meeting notes (towards the end) however ZOS are blindly going ahead with what they want to do it seems regardless.

ZOS MUST have known Sorcs were in a bad place in DB hence giving us OP cage. We already nerfed worse and yet it sounds like we are going to be in a worse position

And the focus is on wards, making Frags effective for DPS padded and wrecking overload the one niche play we have left.

I agree many comments pre PTS are melodramatic and I'm not going to get histronic however i think our concerns about more damage to the class are jusyified given how we been dealt with and the snippets of information presented.

Fingers crossed for Dem patch notes.