Repost from the PTS combat changes thread since it effects Nightblade Tanks in a way and I know theres a meeting coming up:

The Atronach

Tactician: Fixed an issue where this passive was setting enemies Off Balance when you dodged their attack with dodge bonuses such as Major/Minor Evasion, instead of only from Roll Dodge.


Please reconsider this. It synergies really well with the NB Tank and makes it unique with "Mirage" while helping the team by applying Off Balance to enemies. (Btw: its the only real group support the NB Tank has)
Also its not really OP because of the cooldown, only applying Off-Balance once every few seconds (15seconds I believe).
This would be a huge nerf to a niche tanking class and widen the gap between DK Tanks and NB Tanks which is pretty wide anyway.

I also expect this change to not get a huge response from the community since there are only a few NB Tanks left, after taking away Sap tanking from us. So please dont take this away as well, at least not without buffing the NB Tank first!


Edit: We NB Tanks only got indirect nerfs this patch which is really saddening considering the already mediocre state we are in...
It feels like we are getting left out.

max_only wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

Repost from the PTS combat changes thread since it effects Nightblade Tanks in a way and I know theres a meeting coming up:

The Atronach

Tactician: Fixed an issue where this passive was setting enemies Off Balance when you dodged their attack with dodge bonuses such as Major/Minor Evasion, instead of only from Roll Dodge.


Please reconsider this. It synergies really well with the NB Tank and makes it unique with "Mirage" while helping the team by applying Off Balance to enemies. (Btw: its the only real group support the NB Tank has)
Also its not really OP because of the cooldown, only applying Off-Balance once every few seconds (15seconds I believe).
This would be a huge nerf to a niche tanking class and widen the gap between DK Tanks and NB Tanks which is pretty wide anyway.

I also expect this change to not get a huge response from the community since there are only a few NB Tanks left, after taking away Sap tanking from us. So please dont take this away as well, at least not without buffing the NB Tank first!


Edit: We NB Tanks only got indirect nerfs this patch which is really saddening considering the already mediocre state we are in...
It feels like we are getting left out.

God. Dam. It.

I just made a set of Noturnals Favor and was going to try this dodge-tanking out. It’s like they are following and keep slapping the fun out of my hands.

Welcome to the world of non DK tanking!

max_only wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

If Siphoning Attacks were restored ZOS would have to revert the Morrowind sustain changes for all other classes too. Not likely to happen.

Some of the suggestions on this thread are also ridiculous buffs.

Nope. They gave Dark Exchange or whatever a .2 second cast extension. Unless they’ve nerfed it more since I’ve been gone, I don’t see how that is equal treatment. They should have make DE cost magicka to gain magicka if they wanted to be equitable. But they didn’t. So we don’t have to revert ALL classes, just the one skill because it still makes no sense to spend magick to gain magick (and only if you are 100% perfect in its execution). If it’s good for the goose (Sorcs) it’s good for the gander (Nbs)

They spend stamina and get health and magicka. No other requirements like must hit 5 times or wait until the buff ends. https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Dark+Exchange

It’s bs that they took SA away and left DE.

Give me back SA, even if it has a 1.2 second cast time lol.

Dark Conversion/Exchange is a good PvP skill. I don’t think you can fit it into a PvE rotation though. SA is clearly better in PvE.

kaithuzar wrote: »

Dodge chance isn’t high enough. Outside of double take giving major evasion, where do you get minor?
The problem with nb tanking is that we just get hit too hard by bosses in pve. I mean if a dk is taking & let’s say the boss does 5 attacks & dk mitigates 80% of each attack. Even a bad healer can keep him alive.

If you’re a nb tank & you’re dodging 3/5 of those attacks but each attack you can only mitigate 30% of the damage, those 2 attacks you didn’t dodge, you’re either dead or almost dead. Nb tanks “require” a pro healer to be on their game, if they blink you’re dead.

Uh, I don’t know. I used to tank vetICP on my sap tank back in the day with terrible healers. I was overhealing the group while tanking. I’m not looking to replace Dks for trials or leaderboards, I’m looking to have fun rumbling with giant beasties again.

Incap is hard to balance... on its own it’s no big deal but in conjunction with combos that is when it becomes a problem.

cpuScientist wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics good day, I would like to ask is strife being non reflected an issue being brought up, or is that viewed as a non issue?

I’ve only seen two people ask for this, including yourself. It’s counter to the design of the skill and isn’t on the table for suggestions to zos.

Consider that it’s also a bandaid fix for your frustrations with wings.

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

Repost from the PTS combat changes thread since it effects Nightblade Tanks in a way and I know theres a meeting coming up:

The Atronach

Tactician: Fixed an issue where this passive was setting enemies Off Balance when you dodged their attack with dodge bonuses such as Major/Minor Evasion, instead of only from Roll Dodge.


Please reconsider this. It synergies really well with the NB Tank and makes it unique with "Mirage" while helping the team by applying Off Balance to enemies. (Btw: its the only real group support the NB Tank has)
Also its not really OP because of the cooldown, only applying Off-Balance once every few seconds (15seconds I believe).
This would be a huge nerf to a niche tanking class and widen the gap between DK Tanks and NB Tanks which is pretty wide anyway.

I also expect this change to not get a huge response from the community since there are only a few NB Tanks left, after taking away Sap tanking from us. So please dont take this away as well, at least not without buffing the NB Tank first!


Edit: We NB Tanks only got indirect nerfs this patch which is really saddening considering the already mediocre state we are in...
It feels like we are getting left out.

It's pretty much a bug so it's getting fixed. Option B would be to change the tooltip. I do feel that all (most) bugs need removing before balancing can happen, but this is yet another change that negatively impacts mostly just NB tanks. Not good when they are already in so undesirable/not fun to play anymore.

BUT completely agree with your post, it's something a NB tank has, that's getting removed. They are already in a poor place and things like this do not help.

As much as funnel/swallow cost, just use force pulse/crushing
The way I see it the game is basically telling you to go that route as a ranged caster considering the trial that drops the weapon to buff it.

As for the numbers above you guys take me too literally, but maybe I didn’t explain it well enough either .

I meant those numbers based on me trying to remember how I felt when ever I was tanking back in the day on my nightblade as well as the feedback from the people healing me through content like vet white gold tower when it first came out or sanctum (before anyone ever completed vet mode) ie..before it was nerfed.

Blobsky wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Aztlan wrote: »

In response to @Blobsky, with all due respect, Incapacitating Strike does not need a "huge nerf." As I've posted here, Incap is fundamental to the Nightblade archetype and playstyle. Significantly weakening the skill would be a shame. If anything, it could use a minor adjustment, such as placing a condition on the CC as was the case previously.

I mean I have 2 MagNB grand Overlords and a 35+ Stamblade. The fact that I use it on magicka speaks plenty, and on a stam NB itis literally a 2 second kill on most targets.

It is ridiculously overtuned and anyone saying otherwise is not here for "balance" - they are here to buff themselves or minimise the well overdue nerf.

Even if you entirely removed one of the defile or 20% damage AND upped the cost 50% to 105... It would STILL be best in slot.

All that experience and yet you're still wrong. If they were to remove the defile then Incap would be useless in PvP, and then the Stam DK would be the only Stam class not using DBoS.

If you remove the +20% damage then stamblades will once again be a dead DPS class for PvE.

Increase the cost and you'll kill it in both pve and pvp.

Literally the only fair adjustment you can make is to remove or adjust the CC.

You kind of just proved my point. I havrme experience in ALL classes with MagNB as my main and yet accept a nerf is due based on playing a long time on others AND the nb. When you do that you gain a complete understanding.

Side note, I did say the 20% damage could go too (instead of defile) with the ult cost increased to 100 as well. Either way it would still top Dawnbreaker for anyone decent at nightblade (Or the 90%+ of Cyrodiil playing it but sucking at it). The current situation overtunes incap so hard.

StamNB already has up to 20% more dmg in PvE than all other classes, so a cost increase is a balance. Anyone using DB in PvP over incap, even with those nerfs, is a bit special... I would STILL use it on mag let alone stam

It is very plain to see that you have a ton of experience in MagNB and a lot in StamNB.

To me you are like a few others in here, an "Exceptional" player and you even state as much by claiming that 90% of those who play NB suck at it. (I.E. worse than you)

The issue I have is that as an "exceptional" player you are the "exception" this doesn't mean you are above average it means you are WAY above average and yet, for some reason, you expect "everyone" to play at your level.

If ZoS listens to you and those like you and does not give balanced and equal consideration to average or even some below average players then all that happens is the skill floor raises way beyond what that 90% of players are even capable of and solidifies a continual decrease in the number of players that can partake in PvP.

ZoS NEEDS your input as an exceptional and experienced player in fine-tuning, however, I feel they will be at a loss if they used such input as a sole consideration without understanding that your skill level is the exception to the rule and NOT NORMAL or AVERAGE.

While I would love to address my Two major pain points as being directly related to a particular skill, I feel the more important pain points I have are:

1. Class Leaders should actually consistently PLAY the build or builds they are responsible for representing. If they don't play Tank NB then they really shouldn't be representing it in any official capacity. Does that mean more class reps? Probably but as we can already see even inside the class there are those who are calling for nerfs to other "builds or playstyles" they feel conflict with their own. I love the fact that Zos at least gave us some form of class reps but to me, it is only a start and I do not feel that the balance between playstyle or even build differences is equally represented by any means.

2. There is no current way to regulate or hinder those from other classes from making nerf suggestions to those of classes they oppose.


Note: As others have previously stated the Class Representative program was meant to shore up holes and places they felt their class was lacking, but from what I see (across most of the class forums) the majority of suggestions are nerfs. That is why the priority charts in Discord are all based around overused skills as opposed to never used skills.


As for Incap:

For incap I personally believe that requiring the "user" to be at less % health than their chosen target to even activate the ability is complete and total BS. Doing so really removes a players ability to get into the door of gankblade PvP without the use of some really wonky tricks to "cheat" the system and frankly I find the nerfs (because that's what they are) counter to the class identity and the "rock paper scissors" ideology that was originally intended.

I do agree with some others that the damage should be tied to the amount of the ult you use when initiating Incap and that Stuns across all classes should be relegated to the exact same amount of time.

I am against removing malevolent offering, it is the only skill in the NB kit that makes the healing aspect feel unique. Path isn't as good as healing springs IMO, it does damage and gives major expedition but a healer shouldn't necessarily be focused on damage and nightblades have so many options to provide expedition.

Offering is also my oh [snip] button for allies nearing death. Nightblade healers need one of those you know?
Remove this and its back to path/ resto skills. Without a good panic button option. As for self healing dark cloak works great, but we need our own unique burst heal for allies.
Leave as is I'm begging you!

[edited for profanity bypass]

How about this incap? Still same damage and stuns at 70ult. But at 120 ult you also apply major defile and that unique 20 percent damage for 6 secs. What do you say?

From the July 20 Meeting Notes:

Nightblades: See Incap stuff above

Dominates ranged PvE DPS. Lots of off-healing, great sustain, strong numbers. Reps EMPHATICALLY emphasized the preferred resolution to this is *not* to nerf NB, rather to make it so the other classes feel just as strong and provide unique benefits to groups that can’t be acquired elsewhere via gear or such.

I will repost this in the Meeting notes thread when it gets unlocked after editing, but I am posting this here too because this needs to be acknowledged. Right now it seems to be just getting ignored and buried under the obvious bias for magicka that seems to be happening.

MAGICKA Nightblades dominate ranged PvE DPS NOT stamina. Stamina nightblades or anything stamina are NOT welcome in any trial that requires only ranged DPS. In fact stamina anything (except tanks) are not preferred in any end game content because magicka is easy mode with their built in shields and ability to off heal.

Do any of the so called class reps play stamina nightblade? There seems to be an absolute preference and BIAS toward magicka.
There seems to be no mention whatsoever of the issues those of us that play stamina nightblade have. Mainly the fact taht stamina nightblades are not welcome in certain vet trials, VAS being the glaring one. This is not acceptable!!!! It is not acceptable that I have to change my spec to magicka to be able to just get Vet AS or any other content completed.

Is this going to be discussed or are stam nightblades going to be swept under the rug when it comes to end game PvE DPS????

Blur needs a snare/root purge or immunity (like dks got on their armor skill). Nightblades are supposed to be very mobile on the battlefield, but snares and roots are countering magblades too much. Many magblades need to slot 2h forward momentum for this reason atm, wich is kinda ridiculous.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Revert Siphoning Attacks to pre Morrowind status. Who ever complained about our sustain skill? We don’t need more self healing, we have plenty of that. No one was ever destroyed or ganked from SA. If all you do is that, my sap tank and I will be forever grateful. You want diversity? This is how you get it.

I miss old sap tanking. Removing the dual resource sustain from Siphoning Attacks and especially removing the ability to proc some resources from direct damage -- namely Sap Essence -- really messed with that play style.

Raising the other classes to the level of DK PvE tanking is high on our list of class balance concerns, but I am not sure how ready ZOS is to move on the PvP tanking side of things. I'll ask.

We're these concerns raised? I didn't see any mention in the notes/edited notes.

EDIT: nm, Liofa answered in another thread.