[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

AllPlayAndNoWork

Pelican wrote: »

Please fix Shadow Image ASAP, its almost impossible to use now in towers or keep walls, the stars have to align for it to work properly. I've stopped playing because the bug has made my build literally unplayable.

I think the new version is the "fixed" intended version.....

usmguy1234

Pelican wrote: »

Please fix Shadow Image ASAP, its almost impossible to use now in towers or keep walls, the stars have to align for it to work properly. I've stopped playing because the bug has made my build literally unplayable.

I don't think shadow image should break Los but that's just me.

Pastas

Pelican wrote: »

Please fix Shadow Image ASAP, its almost impossible to use now in towers or keep walls, the stars have to align for it to work properly. I've stopped playing because the bug has made my build literally unplayable.

I think that they tried to fix the stuck in terrain bug and we got a new one.

Jaxaxo

Like ppl above said:
1. Shadow image not working vertically in pvp objects
2. siege dot breaking cloak
3. Interesting issue, fear no longer breaks cloak. Atm if u fear somebody who is in cloak he's invisible till cc ends or he break free. It means, if he doesnt break free cloak is prolonged by ~4 sec.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , we dont want to w8 3 months for shade fix like last time.

Datthaw

What and the h, e, double hockey sticks happened to magnb this patch in pvp...

Silver_Strider

Datthaw wrote: »

What and the h, e, double hockey sticks happened to magnb this patch in pvp...

Loss of Minor Vitality
Removal of upfront heal on Healing Ward
Nerf to Piercing Mark
Removal of damage from Refreshing Path means no more reveal of stealth enemies
Shade still broken

I'm sure I forgot something but those are the most relevant changes I can think of.

goatlyonesub17_ESO

Turelus wrote: »

Their sustain and one main damage skill is very light attack weave focused without much support for players who can't weave either due to skill or physical limitations.

Soul Harvest is a magicka/spell based ultimate but is still restricted to 8m, giving it a lot of the issues Impale used to suffer from.

Not popular opinion or pain points but those are my two for Nightblade.

The difficulty with the light-attack/suprise-attack weave is lag preventing the player from coordinating them well. In my case, the lag is partly caused by a slow internet connection. I can't compete for that reason in PvP play, so I stay out of Cyrodiil except to do the quests and get the skyshards there.

Even in PvE, getting the weave to work is hit-and-miss. The nightblade player has to guess about the timing. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

The light-attack/suprise-attack weave is the only offensive (class) combination that the nightblade has that has a significant effect on tough monsters. Don't nerf it. The next-best class attack is, um... I don't think there is another that's even moderately good. A lot of stamblades rely on steel tornado for groups of monsters, and maybe that dual wield cut-you-up snick-snick attack that does damage over time (forgot the name), plus the bleed you get with axes. They have to, since the nightblade class has no decent offense, except the light-attack/surprise-attack weave.

Mayrael

AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »

Pelican wrote: »

Please fix Shadow Image ASAP, its almost impossible to use now in towers or keep walls, the stars have to align for it to work properly. I've stopped playing because the bug has made my build literally unplayable.

I think the new version is the "fixed" intended version.....

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/443367/so-no-fix-of-shadow-image#latest


If you will watch some of my testings there is no way that Shadow Image is WAI. In certain situations it won't work even if you're on the same level with your shadow and there is no obstacles between.

When it goes to cloak... That would be simple inconsistent with all the rest dots, even oblivion dots are surpressed, so why fire etc. wouldn't be?

Mayrael

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Pelican wrote: »

Please fix Shadow Image ASAP, its almost impossible to use now in towers or keep walls, the stars have to align for it to work properly. I've stopped playing because the bug has made my build literally unplayable.

I don't think shadow image should break Los but that's just me.

Then what would be the reason to use it? In open field? Lol first cast image, then run in straight line so you still can see the shadow and then use it so somebody can immediately gap close on you? Lol...

cpuScientist

Besides the same fix shade FIX SHADE!

my main problem is with magBlade being so hard countered by wings/crystal.

1. Make something in the magBlade kit non reflectable, the dot the spam and the burst all are. Of the 3 I mean cripple is IS ground cast let that one be non reflectable at least COME ON!
2. More healing options, I mean with the loss of the initial heal on healing ward minor vitality gone it would be nice to be able to self heal a bit more and path having to swap between heal and dps is a pain.

Bonus round!!! Some kind of in class or out of class Magicka based short snare immunity.

notnsane

Please add Poison into the Assassination skill trees, or make Disease actually do something in the game.

Iskiab

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to put this, but it especially effects magblades so I'm putting it here.

I find that magblades have poor aoe dps. None of our class skills are particularly good for aoe dps (especially with the refreshing path nerf) which is fine, we're a stealth class so single target is our specialty, but the weapon and guild skills could use some work. I think the weakness of the guild and weapon skills for magicka classes is the issue:

Mage Guild:

Fire rune: Size is too small, the values on scalding rune are okay but the small size makes it so it misses one target much less a group of targets. If I place it perfectly it typically misses the second mob I'm fighting because the size is so limited. Increasing the size to 5x the current size would be sufficient.

Destruction staff:

Impulse: Base ability is fine, the morphs are weak. Pulsar needs to have it's damage increased.

Assault:

Caltrops: It would be nice if there was a morph to make a magicka version of this ability

Nightblade - Shadow:

Refreshing Path: Thought I'd throw in my 2 cents again, worst and harshest nerf I've seen on an ability Change it back. This is the change that's making Nightblade pve healing meh.

Iskiab

One other issues for magblade dps. I feel the class is too limited in ability choices for dps because of passives.

Right now on each bar (or at least the front bar) you need to have 1 siphoning, 1 assassination, 1 shadow, 1 destruction staff, and magelight to have competitive dps. Anything else is a dps loss because of passives. This really limits magblades and makes it difficult to slot Soul Harvest as the front bar ultimate unless you use crushing shock as your spamable.

A nice quality of life change that would go a long way to helping diversity would be to change the destruction staff passive from having to have a destruction staff skill on your bar to just having to have a destruction staff equipped.

Iskiab

Not trying to triple post, but the game is down for maintenance and the point is a subtle one so I thought I'd clarify my last post. Here are the Magicka Nightblade passives and skills that NEED to be used in any magblade trial build.

Skills:

Slot 1 - Grim Focus/merciless resolve
Due to the procs after 5 attacks this skill is high maintenance making it almost mandatory for it to be on your first bar.
Slot 2 - Magelight
Strong passive bonus' making it required for competitive dps

Passives:

Assassination tree - Hemorrhage passive (group crit)
Shadow tree - Dark Vigor (health buff)
Siphoning tree - Magicka Flood (magicka buff)
Destruction staff tree - Ancient Knowledge (requires a destruction staff to be equipped and a destruction staff ability on your bar)
Assassination tree - Soul Harvest (While slotted, any time you kill an enemy you gain Ultimate)

So putting it all together a magblade is very limited in what they can slot on their tool bar. Right now it's so limited that the recommended first bar skills doesn't take advantage of the Soul Harvest ultimate generation because the bar is too crowded.

Typical First Bar:

Merciless Resolve - Crippling Grasp - Path of Darkness - Elemental Weapon - Magelight - Elemental Storm Ultimate

The bar is so crowded that I've even started using crushing shock as a spamable just to fill the requirement of a destruction staff ability slotted so I can use soul harvest... and it's an interrupt. If the requirement for the 8% additional damage was removed from Ancient Knowledge (destruction staff) there could be more diversity within the class so people could customize their characters more.

MaximumFrittata

Thoughts on magblade, mostly PvP focused.

-Assassin's will is too way telegraphed for something that has a 5 light attack prerequisite. It's been hit enough with the snare removal and additional cost, it didn't need to be made even easier to dodge/reflect/block from point blank range.

-Cloak is too easily countered by any old AoE, too poorly countered by anti-stealth specific abilities. The piercing mark nerf was excessive. If someone is giving up up a slot for a stealth counter, that counter should be more effective than whirlwind spam. Inner light needs a small radius and duration buff, radiant magelight should get a radius and duration buff and debuff stealthed enemies (maybe with a thematically appropriate blind?). Expert hunter should get a significant duration buff at least.
AoE should only have a 50-66% chance of hitting and revealing a stealthed player, leaving AoE abilities still largely effective against stealth, but not as reliable.

-Calurions proc is too strong. No reason to incentivize proc set reliant playstyles to this extent.

-Refreshing path deserved a damage nerf but not a total removal.

-Shade not doing so hot, but I don't want it getting reworked because it's easier than fixing it. I'd rather have a bugged shade than just another pet.

kaithuzar

As I e stated in other threads, Molag Kena is necessary this patch for us to have enough burst. However, mechanics like Molag Kena & assassins will/merciless resolve, having to light attack X number of times to proc, is NOT conducive to the “stealth playstyle”.

Stam nb for the most part, can sit in stealth, buff up & come at the target from stealth with good buffs + the extra penetration from reducing targets armor with surprise attack.

The major fracture/breach should be on both the magic & stam morphs (whatever the magic equivalent, not sure if I mentioned the correct name).

Sap has been in a poor state. The heal should be a decent hot like vigor.

ProbablePaul

I don't even know what to say. My thoughts on some skills...

• Malevolent offering: is this the only skill in the game that can only be cast on someone else and not used on the caster themselves? wtf? Why cant there be something useful here?
• path of darkness: lol... ground target major expedition for 3500 magicka "we wanted to make sure every spec had something to bring to the party, like the jokes"
• Blur: who needs 4 seconds of major expedition from the morph? oh wait ill just use my overpowered path of darkness ground target aoe major expedition.
• grim focus: remove either, the delay on assassins will or the cost of assassins will; or allow us to hold onto assassins will even when combat ends.
• siphoning strikes morphs: increase the morph's respective stat return

I just want to play melee magicka nightblade. The closest thing to that is crafting sets/items that increase proc/enchantment damage. Right now I run around in 5 shacklebreaker, 5 Lich set with Valkyn Skoria. I like the playstyle of using cloak, image and concealed weapon; the tradeoff is having almost no defense which was ok with damage shields. However, the recent damage shield changes pretty much borked me, I think. I have 23k HP, too.

Drdeath20

Cloak needs a huge change. A skill that does wayyy too much and in all facets of play.

kaithuzar

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Cloak needs a huge change. A skill that does wayyy too much and in all facets of play.

So what class do you play again? Sorc or dk?

FrancisCrawford

I tried magblade healing a bit again for the Undaunted event. Pointless and boring; inferior to templar in every way, except I guess for the class ultimate(s). Warden, by way of contrast, has multiple good class healing skills, and sorcerer has the best burst heal in the game.

Drdeath20

kaithuzar wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Cloak needs a huge change. A skill that does wayyy too much and in all facets of play.

So what class do you play again? Sorc or dk?

For dungeons i play a magplar
For trials i play a magblade
For pvp i play a stamblade and a magsorc depending on the amount of time i have to play.

xI_The_Owl_Ix

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Cloak needs a huge change. A skill that does wayyy too much and in all facets of play.

Not really. PvP meta is curently AoE stacking either via Steel Tornado spam or by using Overwhelming Surge on a mag char. The only NBs I currently see in PvP are snipe stackers because NBs cant get close to people anymore.
AoE meta destroyed cloak/brawler NBs.

Drdeath20

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Cloak needs a huge change. A skill that does wayyy too much and in all facets of play.

Not really. PvP meta is curently AoE stacking either via Steel Tornado spam or by using Overwhelming Surge on a mag char. The only NBs I currently see in PvP are snipe stackers because NBs cant get close to people anymore.
AoE meta destroyed cloak/brawler NBs.

At breeches and pinch points i can agree with ya but everywhere else not soo much. But like you said AoE meta destroyed cloak...so i think you can agree that cloak needs a huge change. Instead of a cheap skill that gives invisibility, dot suppression, 100% nullifies all incomming projectiles and allows a character to instantly go stealth in combat, it now becomes a class shield to help those brawler nbs lol.

Or you can aggree it does too much.

Drdeath20

There was a shield breaker set in turn there needs to be a cloak breaker set.

xI_The_Owl_Ix

Drdeath20 wrote: »

There was a shield breaker set in turn there needs to be a cloak breaker set.

There was no counterplay for shields back in the days thats why oblivion damage and shield breaker were great against shield spammers/stackers.

Cloak has several ways to counter it. AoE, Oblivion DoTs, Magelight, Potion, Poison, just to name a few.

You want to uncloak someone? Use Steeltornado, dont even need to change your 5piece set like with shield breaker, just equip an AoE skill or magelight. Thats one slot in your ability bar. If you still cant counter it then its a l2p issue.

kaithuzar

Drdeath20 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Cloak needs a huge change. A skill that does wayyy too much and in all facets of play.

So what class do you play again? Sorc or dk?

For dungeons i play a magplar
For trials i play a magblade
For pvp i play a stamblade and a magsorc depending on the amount of time i have to play.

Ah magsorc...
Figures.

Stigant

ProbablePaul wrote: »

I don't even know what to say. My thoughts on some skills...

• Blur: who needs 4 seconds of major expedition from the morph? oh wait ill just use my overpowered path of darkness ground target aoe major expedition.
• grim focus: remove either, the delay on assassins will or the cost of assassins will; or allow us to hold onto assassins will even when combat ends.
• siphoning strikes morphs: increase the morph's respective stat return

I play only Stamblade, so... my take on some stuff you listed is irrelevant, but:

• Blur: here I would agree 100% there are just so many better sources of this buff.
  
• grim focus: the delay on assassins will is actually somewhat usefull, after I learned how to work with it, I figured that I can line up pretty nice burst thanks to the delay.
  - Assassins will from cloak->surprise attack: the delay makes the assassin's will hit after ( or at the same time) the SA stuns the target from cloak, resulting in a nice damage spike with an opportunity to land execute skill or another SA during Break Free animation.
  - Assassin's will -> Incap: same as above, although I don't know if it gets buffed by the extra damage dealt from Incap.
  
  Removing the extra cost would be nice. But it's never gonna happen, because it's ZoSes answer to bringing other classes in line with Nightblade in terms of PvE selfsustain in trials.
  
  "or allow us to hold onto assassins will even when combat ends" - that would be too much frontloaded burst on your next opener or gank combo imho.
  
• siphoning strikes morphs: never gonna happen for the same reason why we've got exta cost on Assassin's Will proc. It got buffed its stat return from Heavy attacks, because ZOS clearly wants us to use those and not be able to sustain pure LA rotation, or at least have a really hard time to do so.
  
  Edit: some typos

Datthaw

Rip pvp magblade. You have turned this class into cloak abuse. Can't play viv because prime time lag is just absurd so no cp pvp for me. In bgs it's cloak or die, Heavy armor underperforming, shields are too weak, can't rely on hots and still have enugh damage. Thank you for killing build diversity and my interest in the game along with it. Looks like it's pve trials on healer until I get bored and just quit.

Maybe hire some people who understand how to design classes.

Salty post but w/e I'm just that frustrated.

Zekka

Some (already unnecessary at the time they were done) nerfs on Strife need to be undone, Elemental Weapon is already the better spammable for dps AND the cheaper skill, meanwhile Swallow Soul had its self healing gutted and Funnel Health its damage basically removed.
The skill needs its cost reduced.

On another note is it me or Strife became clunky to weave with again? Like how it was pre Summerset, as if ZOS copypasted their old code for the last Murkmire nerf.

Nutshotz

For me, I don't think cloak is over performaning. Yes I main a mNB did I play a sNB yup. 4 yrs ago. Do I still play it. Once in a great while. These are the things I think that need improvement on Stam/mag NB's

-cloak. Make a Stam and mag vs of cloak. or go back to the old school cloak with purge. Am I crazy for suggesting that. Nope.
-incap. Either remove stun or make it on par with harvest.
-fear. Both morphs should be a 6 second and Target fear.
-strife mophs. Need an overhaul. For mNB that was a huge part of a light attack weave rotation for HP back and now it's on par with pulse for cost.
-criple. Debilitate. Garbage! Grasp- bump the speed back up to 40%
-offering morphs. In my eyes both garbage unless you're a mNB healer.
-strikes morphs. Either remove the timer for return or bump the return amount up by 15-18%.
-sap. Needs to be almost as on par as vigor. Or increase the dmg and healing % amount back.
- concealed weapons. Add fracture to it but what ever the spell vs is.
- refreshing path needs it's dmg back. Was no need for them to take the dmg away.
- shade. You'll hate me for this one. Since they can't seem to fix this skill for some odd reason. We'll add major defile and major maim. To OP? Nah it's puuuuurrrrfect.
- Merc resolve. Needs to be on par with resolve for return. Just add magica return

Passives.

Hemorrhage. Add spell critical

Dark Vigor . Add Stam and magica to this passive.

Soul siphoner. Change from 3% to 6-7%

These are all just some ideas to help buff Stam and mag NB's.