[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

Thanatos_inside

just more healing

GrumpyDuckling

I just want to bring these two pain points back up, as there were many people who have agreed about these pain points since May of 2018 (see page 1 of this thread). It would be great to see them brought up in the next meeting. Thanks.

1) The Nightblade class is designed to sneak, yet their sneak speed is penalized just like every other class. This doesn't make sense.

2) Access to Major Brutality for the Nightblade requires melee range, an enemy, and for the Nightblade to already be in combat (meaning it can't be acquired before a stealth attack is performed). This is a curious decision for a class that encourages players to attack from stealth.

IronWooshu

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Alistania wrote: »

Ok... I'm really frustrated by the Nightblade class. I've stopped playing the game, because I feel I cannot play the class I want to play, in the most basic way it's intended to be played.

My vision for a Nightblade is a STEALTH class that infiltrates, steals, uses charisma to persuade/intimidate, kills as needed, and GTFO when it's all over. A class that uses two melee weapons, daggers or swords etc, to do it's dirty work. (Bows are fine thematically, that makes sense, sneaky archer.)

My problem is that I'm using 2 daggers, and my class melee abilities that are magica based. (for what ever *** reason. IDK how stabbing someone uses magica but okay.) I'm built for magic, i'm specced as far as I can tell for magic damage. Yet when I try to kill something my level, I get destroyed. I can't even solo one mob. And I don't know what the problem is.

Whenever I ask for help or advice, all I'm told is "Use a Destro Staff" or "Use a two-handed weapon", and neither of these options in ANY WAY reflect the class fantasy of a Nightblade. How the hell does sneaking around killing someone quietly with a two-handed weapon make sense? "Oh I'm just going to carry this giant two-handed sword or axe or w/e and sneak while using this unwieldy heavy weapon." or "Oh lemme just use a magic staff to kill things, even tho I'm not a mage type class."

I don't know how to fix my character, which is really my only character. I'm at level 103 or something like that... I don't know any competent Nightblades to ask questions to, or ask help from. I don't have any friends who play the game.

I WANT to play the game, it's a beautiful game, with a lot of great stories and things to do. I WANT to play Morrowind and Summerset. I WANT to own a house and decorate it. I WANT to be able to kill ONE THING my own level so I can start questing again.

I'm simply at a loss as to what to do. Because to me the class should work, but it doesn't. dual wielding doesn't work with magic, even tho all my class abilities use magic. (Yes some morphs are stamina but there aren't many. I also don't have the resources to respec at all.)

I'm in kind of a hopeless state to be honest. I feel lost and abandoned. I don't know anyone, I've tried to ask for help....and get told L2P, or play in a style that doesn't even suit the class fantasy.

Please fix the class, or tell me how I can have a magica duel wield build to where I can kill stuff pve. (I'm not asking to #$^*ing solo raids or dungeons. I just want to be able to do quests ffs.) I couldn't care less about pvp, so please don't provide a pvp build.

Thank you,

Sincerely frustrated Khajiit.

I don't think you understand what a nightblade is, a nightblade was never only about stealth, it was also about dark/life stealing magic, and this is in lore.

Also, that;s balance, wanna do damage as magicka, well right now you gotta use destro staff.

I would also like the introduction of bound weapons, or weapons that you can infuse with magic to make them magic weapons that deal magic damage, but that still isn't here.

Just an fyi that we have communicated the desire for a melee magicka weapon option to the devs. We suggested various options, such as having light and heavy attacks deal adaptive damage and scale with your higher stats, implementing a bound weapons feature that converts them to magicka weapons, or introducing an entire new melee magicka weapon line. No idea what they may be considering or their timeline on addressing this pain point, though.

I would love this, I was thinking a conjuration skill line which would allow the user to slot conjure bow, 2h or dual weild and when the skill is activated it summons a magicka weapon for 30 seconds using a 3rd bar which would allow you to place the weapons abilities on the 3rd bar. This would require you have skill points specced into the weapon of your choice. However the downside would be that if you bar swap the conjured weapon and its bar disapear.

It would be like a double edge sword, conjure DW swords for a quick spin to win attack that scales off magicka instead of stamina, cant finish the enemy off bar swap and go back to using staves to start rotation again.

I haven't worked out all the kinks and I'm sure devs know better than I do for fairness but magicka base stam weapons that scale off magicka is badly needed.

Also I just made a Nightblade, being a Warden tank and experienced tank the Nightblade tank has very glaring issues. One is that I bring nothing to the fight, DK's bring damage molten weapons, Wardens bring minor toughness, there is nothing unique the Nightblade brings.

Second pain point experiencing as a tank, I am so use to being able to root enemies so my group can AOE them down, I cant do this with Nightblade, perhaps make a aspect of terror morph have a root?

Until then I cant get behind Nightblades as a tank class, they are so inferior to Warden and DK's in every way. I feel no identity to my Nightblade when it comes to tanking.

kind_hero

Short background: I play a nightblade since 2014, stamina and magicka builds, and I enjoy all the aspects of the game, pve, pvp, bg, etc.

My feedback is as from a DD point of view, more focused on the PvE area (I do far less PvP than PvE).

The magblade feels rather off as a class in pve, because our dps is mostly based on the destruction staff/mael staff bonus, while the class abilities are secondary. The front bar is pretty much set in stone, we need the mages guild ability, so this leaves us with 4 slots, including merciless. The "big" ultimate is also from the destruction line, while other classes have better ultimates. Also the whole play style is not very interesting, because you have to build up your spectral bow, which sometimes does underwhelming damage. During questing many new players never learn to use it, because mobs die before adding 5 strikes.

Its defenses as a DD are also poor, the shield, which again is not a class ability, is weak and it is good only to restore some magicka. If I do pledges with randoms, I feel the need to equip Iceheart for the shield, to have some extra protection.

I do understand that now it is to late to make big changes to any class, but I would be happy to see a 3rd/new morph or a new skill line for the magicka nighblade which will use conjured weapons and better wards. I do not want my class to be overpowered in PvP or PvE, I just want it to feel rewarding, unique, and fun! - let's not forget that FUN is the first reason people play any game, before aiming for challenges or achievements.

Proposals:

I wonder how viable is to turn the spectral bow into an ultimate, which will do damage based on how many ultimate points you have (up to 100 let's say). The problem with this is in pvp where you could one shot people, but same happens with snipe, so adding a delay/telegraph would be OK. In my opinion the dd nightblade should be most efficient on single target damage (since the class fits assassins), so this idea will act in this sense.

I would also change Blur in a shield that gains strength with each enemy killed, up to a limit ofc, so if you have this up, you can do better in melee range, to use the concealed weapon or sap essence, and make up for the lack of burst heal

A fun spell from the illusion school that would fit the magicka nightblade is mind control, to make a humanoid or beast mob fight for you for a while. This could be a instead of manifestation of terror, which I did not find interesting to use.

P.S. To all saying the nightblade in this game is not like the stereotype assassin, thief, shady rogue, I thought a bit and could not remember any NPCs or mobs in the game that are magicka nightblades and use fire staves. All the nightblades are sneaky dagger users that stun, vanish and attack you from stealth with poisons.

Deathlord92

Gilvoth wrote: »

we nightblades are not able to stealth properly and we should have our stealth increased. it angers me that we cannot stealth like we need to and that we so easily are pulled out of stealth.

it angers me that we cannot sneak fast in stealth.
right now we have an ability to sneak but it simply feels like we are crawling in mud while we are sneaking, we need to be able to Get Out of harm way while in sneak and right now it is Way too slow in sneak speeds.

o wrote: »

Incap is way too strong for it's cost and is used by both mag and stamnb due to how overperforming it is.

Remove the stun on incap and give it an other effect to Keep it viable but the stun is too much as it Boosts the frontloaded Damage potential way too much

Dear zeniamx and @ZOS_GinaBruno

please hear my complaint about this type of threads,

many people on this forum, have no intention of class balance, but instead are intentionally making threads and comments against a class, class skill, and even a set of armor, or a combination that a class wearing a certain set of armor and using a certain skill is overpowered or in some way not balanced when infact the class or class skill and even set of armor is balanced but they don't want to adjust or change their build nor their skills to defend against those things.
but instead they mean it for harm against a class or skill or armor set. and make posts like the one i am quoting above.

how is it fair and construction oriented that this comment that i quoted above and these types of "nerf nightblade" nerf nightblade skills" be allowed to be posted in this nightblade thread?

all one has to do is be against or die often to the nightblade class and use that anger and fuel their comment to request nerfs be made to a certain class.

thank you for taking time to read my complaint.

and by the way, i do not agree with the complaints that were made in the comment that i qouted, and i am willing to bet that Many people Do Not agree with that statement that i have quoted above.

Completely agree with all ur points 👍

Deathlord92

All I played since console release is stamblade love it never going to get bored of it really enjoy it but atm I find nb to be very squishy especially magblade which needs love pvp perspective by way 😊

Legendry

Just read the PTS patch notes 5.0.0 on class balance and it's totally great. Finally NB's got nerfed to the ground and forced to run Mark, as the cheesy class they are. Finally ZOS understood there is absolutely no reason why a NB could run solo in PVP. The only solo classes in PVP should be Sorc, DK, Templar, Warden and Necro. NB's can stay at the back of large groups and siege.

At last some sense was put into this game. Finally!!

Elijah_Crow

Legendry wrote: »

Just read the PTS patch notes 5.0.0 on class balance and it's totally great. Finally NB's got nerfed to the ground and forced to run Mark, as the cheesy class they are. Finally ZOS understood there is absolutely no reason why a NB could run solo in PVP. The only solo classes in PVP should be Sorc, DK, Templar, Warden and Necro. NB's can stay at the back of large groups and siege.

At last some sense was put into this game. Finally!!

As a Bosmer Nightblade, I can safely say it's time to move on to another game.

Maulkin

The nerfhammer was swung waaaaay too hard.

Lost Minor Berserk
Lost Minor Endurance
Lost Major Fracture
Lost Major Defile

At least Fear is now a better CC, but by god those nerfs

Tommy_The_Gun

My reaction to PTS V5.0 patch notes:

olsborg

Nerfs was needed, yes. But this is too much.

I was thinking we needed to chop off one of its arms. But zos went and chopped off both arms then also took the head for good measure, wut..

Eatmyface

Now they're the hardest class to master AND you get nothing for all of your time and perseverance...

Thanatos_inside

just leave this game guys no more fun

Insco851

Did the class reps also die from the nerf hammer?

ApostateHobo

You'd think we didn't even have a nightblade class representative with these patch notes

Nevasca

Insco851 wrote: »

Did the class reps also die from the nerf hammer?

They got nerfed too.

Jhalin

Can’t wait to the parses, I’m sure that’ll be fun to see how far a class can fall in dps within one patch

Maulkin

Jhalin wrote: »

Can’t wait to the parses, I’m sure that’ll be fun to see how far a class can fall in dps within one patch

Why are you concerned about dummy parses though? Changes won't affect stamblade dps in group content. Here's the buffs that were lost:

Minor Berserk - Healer with Combat Prayer
Major Fracture - Tank with Pierce Armor
Major Defile - Who cares for PvE?
Minor Endurance - Small sustain loss, don't stack stam regen anyway

Don't tell me you're concerned about the dps loss for vMA. The content you can do with a bucket and broom.

Ri_Khan

I want to know how loss of mobility is being factored in to all these "balance" nerfs considering NB's are now going to have to stand right next to their tank and healer buddies all the time.

Zalathorm

They also nerfed dubious camoran throne, steel tornado, snipe (bow bow builds becoming popular), and advancing yokeda has a stack cooldown now.

Plus the loss of the 4 debuffs.

ruikkarikun

Just shut down the servers. Thanks.

BahometZ

Functionally will be pretty much the same in PvE, IF your healer has good uptime on combat prayer, and you don't have to move much (good luck with both of those). But solo dummy parses just dropped at least 6k. Does that matter? No, unless you're trying to get into vet trials with sweaty types. But why would you give yourself that kind of pain?

What does suck is waking up and finding nothing but doorknobs in your pillowcase. Some changes were required but ZOS should know to give some sweet with the sour. Nightblades got straight up dropkicked, with nothing positive to show for it. It's borderline emotional abuse. I kid. Slightly.

Pray for any single character Argonian nightblades out there.

Ashtaris

Legendry wrote: »

Just read the PTS patch notes 5.0.0 on class balance and it's totally great. Finally NB's got nerfed to the ground and forced to run Mark, as the cheesy class they are. Finally ZOS understood there is absolutely no reason why a NB could run solo in PVP. The only solo classes in PVP should be Sorc, DK, Templar, Warden and Necro. NB's can stay at the back of large groups and siege.

At last some sense was put into this game. Finally!!

And again, thank the PVP crowd for totally killing a class. Congrats. I hope it’s your turn next time.

Ashtaris

ApostateHobo wrote: »

You'd think we didn't even have a nightblade class representative with these patch notes

Or they didn’t have any Cojones to speak up.

Tommy_The_Gun

BahometZ wrote: »

Pray for any single character Argonian nightblades out there.

My main...
Argonian NB tank. Used to be Sap Tank in the past, but ZOS killed this playstyle. Now I am Hybrid nb... Probably one of the last of my kind out there... And it realy pains me that ppl on forums were so blinded by PvP and they were actally happy when they cutet off my tail last update. Now the same people seems to be blinded again by PvP and they will be happy again to se my arm choped off and making me partialy blind on one eye...

How can I be positive about the game right now ? The only way my main can be usefull is literally at crafting only. Hell, even solo pvp is going to be tough as stunning NPCs with "Teleport Strike" was often a difference betwen life & death - especially when there were many of them, like on a dolmen / geyser or some overland / dungeon adds.

svaboss

first i want to make clear that this comment is from a PVE NB tank and magDD point of view. i dont want to go into any other roles or PVP since i dont play then enough to make a constructive comment. forst i want to adress the changes to the removing of the minor berserk from the Grim focus. well i know its gonna hurt alot of you who like to get high target dummy pharses in your homes with sets that you dont use in actual fights and skill set ups that you also dont use in actual fights. but lets be honest any other class gets the minor berserk from combat prayer in a real fight and so will you. so from this point your uber mega high target dummy pharse will be a bit lower but in real fights it should stay pretty much the same. so this was the "defending the devs part" of my post.
here goes the other part: dear devs we know the magblades do really high dmg and perform very well but i somehow think you forget to take into your calculation that to do so you need ALOT more practice on your rotation than on any other class and its by far alot harder to get those numbers. yes once you have it all down right you will perform better than lets say a pet sorc but to master a pet sorc rotation and a magblade rotation is a pretty big difference.
and now lets go to the NB tank nerf nuke you have in store for us in Elsweyr. i main a NB tank and i must say that the best think you have ever done for us is the Dark cloak skill. we finnaly got a "oh crap" button to hit. it still took us 3.5sec to get all the heals from it but it was the push we really needet to be able to drop those selfish sets and put on sets that will help the group in buffs or debuffs (looking at alkosh thorugs, ebon and so on). by doing so we are able to get into real end game content as a member from the group who can carry his own weight. finally we dont have to listen anymore in cams: shi* hes a NB wanna be tank, someone needs to baby sit him and/or we wont get any buffs/debuffs. this nerf to that one skill feels like every end game PVE guild wants only NB tanks atm and we need to nerf them so they will be in pair with other tanking classes. i can tell you there are very few of us left out there and even fever who will go into anything more difficult than a nonDLC vet dung. you say you want to increase the duration of the minor protection. well you know what?! if you want to nerf that skill leave the heal as it is and remove the minor protection at all. why? because i slot temporal guard and have that minor protection 24/7 up at 0 resurce cost. with this changes i get just another 1k HoT per sec for spending a ton of resurces and it will really burn my mag down because i need to keep it up all the time since I DONT HAVE A "OH CRAP" BUTTON. basicly i will need to keep up dark cloak, refreshing path and strife up all the time. you want to keep all those up in a arena where you have to range taunt a ton of stuff?!
I know the PTS just started and things can still change alot till the chapter goes live. so i ask you one more time to rethink the dark cloak skill because its the one think a NB tank needs in PVE and it doest break anything in PVP since the othe morph is alot more usefull for that kind of content.

Victor_Blade

Thanks a lot zos for fixing magblade. Now all I need to do is go in range of a dk with wings(50% damage migitation) and shoot my spectral bow to get heals while he roots and whips me up!!! Such a great buff!!!!

Oh I can cloak around a pet sorc so I don't engage in a fight but boo hoo pets can break cloak even if you've been spamming cloak for 3 minutes straight. Very cool and if we do get enough courage to fight back then they use 3 shields and then hide behind bets while damaging us and if I cloak back then some flying bird like human zaps me out of cloak!!! Sooo cool.

I understand your high risk high return vision for nightblades but I don't see any high returns! Frags hit harder than assassins will, pets can break cloak, shade is buggy, templar jabs can bring us out of stealth, dks can root and whip us while laughing at the pathetic damage we do.

Now for those noobs who keep saying magblade is op in pve. Well technically yes they are. But have you checked out our rotation? I've barely seen people doing their parses without a single mistake. It has the hardest rotation and a single mistake can sum up to a down of 5k dps overall. And Templars still used to hit as high as us and with combat prayer the dps gap was none existent.

Nerfing an already bad pvp class to the point where I want to just turn it into a crafter or a character bank. Thank you for the great insight zos, keep listening to the crying noobs who don't use counterplay. Actually most of them would agree to delete the nightblade class tbh. Please do that and give us a class change token.

Iskiab

Um, you don’t think these changes will effect pve? Are you guys nuts?

Read the Templar changes. They just got a buff and were already tied for the top magdps spot. Magblade nerf + MagTemplar buff = MagTemplar are the new top ranged dps class.

Might still end up pure stam with all bow/bow rdps. I’m not sure. Magdk changes look like they’re designed around letting them take a melee spot in trials.

It will likely be 1 NB spot per raid, I don’t play in score run trials so I’m not sure where they’d stick the NB.

As for pvp, a lot of people I see pvp a lot are quiet. Probably lots of broke specs/things but are hush hush to take advantage.

Maulkin

Iskiab wrote: »

Um, you don’t think these changes will effect pve? Are you guys nuts?

Read the Templar changes. They just got a buff and were already tied for the top magdps spot. Magblade nerf + MagTemplar buff = MagTemplar are the new top ranged dps class.

What dps nerf did magbaldes get?

John_Falstaff

@Maulkin , magblades, way more than stamblades, are more likely to stand outside of Combat Prayer, so the Minor Berserk uptime would definitely be lower on them. I would argue that if ZOS wanted to target stamblades, then they've missed and hit the wrong spec.