Werewolf Theorycrafting (PvP)

Qbiken · June 2018

@Thraben
Magicka warden is insanely good on the support role. Not denying that there´re decent stamina warden support setups, but my personal preference will go to magicka wardens for a "pure" support-role. If you want to mix a bit of damage with support stamina warden feels like a better choice however

Will try to contact you in-game about the group. Think I´ve seen Ethard a few times in Sotha now when I think about it

Thraben · June 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Went to stretch the wolf's legs in battlegrounds tonight :

First match
https://twitch.tv/videos/273304095?t=06m24s

Second match
https://twitch.tv/videos/273304095?t=32m40s

@Thraben

Check the first video out where I play on my magwarden with Aznox (his footage, not mine). I die stupidly at start but otherwise magicka warden is insanely good on the support role. Not denying that there´re decent stamina warden support setups, but my personal preference will go to magicka wardens for a "pure" support-role. If you want to mix a bit of damage with support stamina warden feels like a better choice however

Will try to contact you in-game about the group. Think I´ve seen Ethard a few times in Sotha now when I think aboit

The thing is, you can find a support stam warden MUCH easier than a support MagWarden, because a StamWarden does some substantial damage and can care for himself in 1vsX situations. The support potential is the same for both.

Werewolves interested for pack play on DC side on Sotha EU please contact Ethard directly - though you can ask me, I am typically busy leading the main DDK raid.

Aznox · June 2018

@Qbiken Dolche des Königs fight on Daggerfall Covenant so this is my guess for the faction of this group

I play on EP side.

edit : late

IlCanis_LupuslI · June 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Game still laggy af...

But hey on the bright side, they seem 2 have fixed the heavy attack bug on the werewolf, at least with my chars it seems 2 be working fine :-D

@Mangeli200194
You mean the heavy attack weave issues? (where the heavy attack got cancelled if you used a skill during the "wind up") If that´s true it would be amazing, need to check when I get home.

@Aznox Have you had the opportunity to test this yet?

@Qbiken yes those exactly, its working now for me at least

Aznox · June 2018

Definitely not fixed for me, on what bar are you using werewolf ?

Aznox · June 2018

@Mangeli200194 @Qbiken

Just made a quick video to demonstrate :

IlCanis_LupuslI · June 2018

I use it on my dual wield back bar someimes with snb but usually dual wield

IlCanis_LupuslI · June 2018

i found out why it works with me, ive gotten myself to the habit that i only press the skill i want to use after the claws while doing a heavvy atack are at the maximum exended to left and right. then use the skill while the claws are slamming togeather and the weaving still works that way, if you do it before the claws coming toggeather the heavy attack gets cancelled

IlCanis_LupuslI · June 2018

Its a timing thing really atm to get it to work

Qbiken · June 2018

Aznox wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 @Qbiken

Just made a quick video to demonstrate :

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/275801191

@NightbladeMechanics

Would it be possible to forward this to the devs? It´s very obvious in the footage that Aznox provides that something is off

IlCanis_LupuslI · June 2018

It think they are a bit busy with pvp beeing unplayable and all :-(, or at least i hope they are busy

Dashmatt · June 2018

I'm really curious about Queen's Elegance now that we can transmute the jewelry to Robust. You'd still be losing some Stamina and/or weapon damage, but I wonder if the light and heavy attack bonus makes up for it? Not sure how it fits with the new light attack damage formula. Anyone tried?

IlCanis_LupuslI · June 2018

Nah not worth it imo.. I'd rather go for fury myself or something else

Chrlynsch · June 2018

Dashmatt wrote: »

I'm really curious about Queen's Elegance now that we can transmute the jewelry to Robust. You'd still be losing some Stamina and/or weapon damage, but I wonder if the light and heavy attack bonus makes up for it? Not sure how it fits with the new light attack damage formula. Anyone tried?

Essentially not worth it. You are better off with something like Automaton to increase all physical damage LA and Bleed. Or a raw weapon damage set to increase all your damage.

NightbladeMechanics · June 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 @Qbiken

Just made a quick video to demonstrate :

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/275801191

@NightbladeMechanics

Would it be possible to forward this to the devs? It´s very obvious in the footage that Aznox provides that something is off

I have seen this and sent it to the devs.

Dashmatt wrote: »

I'm really curious about Queen's Elegance now that we can transmute the jewelry to Robust. You'd still be losing some Stamina and/or weapon damage, but I wonder if the light and heavy attack bonus makes up for it? Not sure how it fits with the new light attack damage formula. Anyone tried?

Most of werewolves' damage comes from their insane bleeds and howl burst. I haven't tried Elegance on werewolf myself, but I'd trust Caius' opinion and have heard a couple of other werewolf players whom I trust say that they aren't fans of the set after testing it this patch as well.

Thraben · June 2018

Dashmatt wrote: »

I'm really curious about Queen's Elegance now that we can transmute the jewelry to Robust. You'd still be losing some Stamina and/or weapon damage, but I wonder if the light and heavy attack bonus makes up for it? Not sure how it fits with the new light attack damage formula. Anyone tried?

I've been using it for a month now. Light attacks did like 4,7k damage non crit, heavies up to 23k with offbalance and crit (against NPCs in No CP), if I remember correctly. Only useful IF you are an Overload StamSorc Werewolf. And even then Sloads is better. Furthermore, in that case you are not a Werewolf most of the times, you just use it for surprise attacks after turtling up.

IlCanis_LupuslI · July 2018

Soooo wolfbrothers/-sisters(im a german so everytime were not politically correct the world complains :-P )
wolf changes, Pelinals and Shackle outdated, what r u going to use??? im gonna get out my Salvation again and combine it with Chudan and a other Set maby 7th Legion to help my selfheals. What r u guys going 2 do????
Im so hyped, i calculated if you have a 1 sec cooldown on the ww -passive essentially if your doing constant damage the werewolf lasts for 30 secs x 5 so 2.5 min!!!! *** amazing, if you take that x 4 with the Power of the Pack passive your at 10 min if your in a wolfpack without feeding. if they make that staying in a 4 sec feed channel fills up the entire ww bar( @Chrlynsch how did that work on PTS i know you tried it out, how much does staying in t hat 4 sec feed channel fill up the ww-timer? ) i dont see any issues keeping ww up in combat in PvP, youll just have to be more aggressive)

Qbiken · July 2018

With the nerf to Hircine´s Bounty I think werewolfs will be even more forced to run in groups, which by itself isn´t necessary a bad thing. Even though I´d hope it would have been done in another way.

In terms of sets here´s a list of interesting sets for next patch:

* Black Rose: Might see a comback for this set. Gives stamina, magicka and health on top of some extra sustain.

* Mark of the Pariah: Since we´ll probably have to run higher health builds to get any decent self-heal, Pariah becomes more attractive.

* 7th Legion: I´m still not a big fan of this set after the fixes it got. The weapon damage is nice but other than that I´m not convinced just yet.

* Warriors Fury: Can still be somewhat useful, but get yourself a pocket healer for this.

* Plague Doctor: If you wanna boost that heal a bit extra I guess.

* Clever Alchemist: 2x Health Bonuses will certainly help boosting the heal. Pairing it with Argonian and potion reduction enchants is already a good way of having decent sustain.

* Barkskin: Even though ZOS reduced the effectiveness of snares I still think Barkskin has it´s place.

* Desert Rose: The heal still costs magicka. And as I see it, PvP werewolfs will have to build more defensively than before. Desert Rose offers a bit of extra health and a way to sustain magicka.

* Impregnable: Can´t deny it offers some nice bonuses, a good choice for CP-gameplay

* Wizards Riposte: While being used mainly for magicka builds the extra health and magicka recovery will benefit werewolfs next patch. And you´ll basically have close to 100% uptime on your enemies with the maim debuff.

* Durok´s Bane: Pairing it with Claws of Life. Durok´s Bane is still stupidly strong and you can still have a 100% uptime on people unless they don´t attack you.

Aznox · July 2018

if the PTS changes go live unmodified :
- Spell damage is now useless
- Max magicka is now a lot less useful
- Magicka recovery equally useful
- Maximum health more useful

Adjust accordingly.
- Pelinal is dead
- 64 points-into-magicka werewolf is dead
- Shacklebreaker may still be good for max magicka and regen, but less useful, using it the new heal is a slight nerf.

Basically just use any build, will work fine with the new buffs, just know that anyone can now slot werewolf on their stam build and compete with you.

Aznox · July 2018

Savage Werewolf (Medium)

2: Max Stamina
3: Weapon Damage
4: Stamina Recovery
5: Your Light and Heavy Attacks rend flesh, causing your enemy to bleed for 1000 Physical Damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.

Might be ok if the bleed ticks at second 0.
That would be 1,67x500=833 bleed DPS under perfect conditions when spaming light attack every 0,6sec in pvp.

Blood Moon (Medium)

2: Weapon Damage
3: Weapon Critical
4: Weapon Critical
5: When you deal Critical Damage with a melee Light Attack, you gain a stack of Blood Scent for 8 seconds. When you gain 5 stacks, you become Frenzied for 5 seconds, increasing your melee Light Attack damage by 50% and attack speed by 50%. This effect can occur every 18 seconds.

So let's say a light attack spam DPS is 60% LA / 40% Bleed ticks.

Let's say that's 6000 LA DPS and 4000 Bleed DPS.

Now let's add 50% LA Damage.
So for 5 seconds we get 9000 LA DPS and 4000 Bleed DPS
And we can LA every 0,4sec instead of every 0,6sec
So for 5 seconds we get 13500 LA DPS and 6000 Bleed DPS

So during these 5 sec we went from 10000 DPS to 19500 DPS.
That under perfect conditions, assuming the servers can register 2,5 click per seconds and you can stick to your target.
If you have already LA spammed under Deathmatch sigil, you know this looks very nice for a resource-free burst.
However this will probably not go up to LA-Howl weave level under mechanical acuity proc, just more efficient.

If you can't start stacking Blood Scent before the end of the cooldown it will bad however. (real cd will be 23+ sec)

As for PvE if you are interested, still assuming a proc every 18 sec, this amounts to
(100x5)/18 = 27,78% uptime
1 + (2-1)x0,2778 = 1,2778 => 27,78% average DPS increase if you are only spaming LA.

Not sure if Kena+Ravager+BloodMoon can outperform Kena+Ravager+Relenquen though.

Edit : i think Selene+Ravager+Relequen may be the best PvE DPS on current PTS.

IlCanis_LupuslI · July 2018

Im probably gonna run Wyrd tree+salvation next patch... Finally no more perma -defile^^

Qbiken · July 2018

I think Prisoner will make a comback again. Magicka recovery is more important now. And with snares being less effective than before Prisoner is a nice option.

IlCanis_LupuslI · July 2018

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=73225

Qbiken · July 2018

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=73225

I like it. Add a warden using ice-fortress and you can swap chudan for something else

Chrlynsch · July 2018

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Soooo wolfbrothers/-sisters(im a german so everytime were not politically correct the world complains :-P )
wolf changes, Pelinals and Shackle outdated, what r u going to use??? im gonna get out my Salvation again and combine it with Chudan and a other Set maby 7th Legion to help my selfheals. What r u guys going 2 do????
Im so hyped, i calculated if you have a 1 sec cooldown on the ww -passive essentially if your doing constant damage the werewolf lasts for 30 secs x 5 so 2.5 min!!!! *** amazing, if you take that x 4 with the Power of the Pack passive your at 10 min if your in a wolfpack without feeding. if they make that staying in a 4 sec feed channel fills up the entire ww bar( @Chrlynsch how did that work on PTS i know you tried it out, how much does staying in t hat 4 sec feed channel fill up the ww-timer? ) i dont see any issues keeping ww up in combat in PvP, youll just have to be more aggressive)

Devour
Works like a dream, how I always hoped it would. It is smooth and responsive. I get about a 2k heal per second, and it can crit heal as well (unsure if spell crit or weapon crit). You get about ticks of time restore before the corpse is consumed. You can devour for two seconds and come back if the corpse is there and finish the last 2 seconds. Feels like the total duration is the same. There is now a blood pillar hovering over those you haven't devoured making it easy to detect what corpses you haven't devoured without hovering over the corpses.

There is now no cooldown on devour. This means you can devour one corpse and then immediately start devouring the next if your timer isn't full. Awesomeness!

Aznox · July 2018

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Soooo wolfbrothers/-sisters(im a german so everytime were not politically correct the world complains :-P )
wolf changes, Pelinals and Shackle outdated, what r u going to use??? im gonna get out my Salvation again and combine it with Chudan and a other Set maby 7th Legion to help my selfheals. What r u guys going 2 do????
Im so hyped, i calculated if you have a 1 sec cooldown on the ww -passive essentially if your doing constant damage the werewolf lasts for 30 secs x 5 so 2.5 min!!!! *** amazing, if you take that x 4 with the Power of the Pack passive your at 10 min if your in a wolfpack without feeding. if they make that staying in a 4 sec feed channel fills up the entire ww bar( @Chrlynsch how did that work on PTS i know you tried it out, how much does staying in t hat 4 sec feed channel fill up the ww-timer? ) i dont see any issues keeping ww up in combat in PvP, youll just have to be more aggressive)

Devour
Works like a dream, how I always hoped it would. It is smooth and responsive. I get about a 2k heal per second, and it can crit heal as well (unsure if spell crit or weapon crit). You get about ticks of time restore before the corpse is consumed. You can devour for two seconds and come back if the corpse is there and finish the last 2 seconds. Feels like the total duration is the same. There is now a blood pillar hovering over those you haven't devoured making it easy to detect what corpses you haven't devoured without hovering over the corpses.

There is now no cooldown on devour. This means you can devour one corpse and then immediately start devouring the next if your timer isn't full. Awesomeness!

Awesome ! I hope the devs that worked on this can continue working with this attention to detail on other aspects of the game

IlCanis_LupuslI · July 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=73225

I like it. Add a warden using ice-fortress and you can swap chudan for something else

true but im a nb sooooooo tough luck ;-P plus ice fortress doesnt last long only 15 secs or so, chudan is permanent and i dont have the luxury of having a warden around all the time

IlCanis_LupuslI · July 2018

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Soooo wolfbrothers/-sisters(im a german so everytime were not politically correct the world complains :-P )
wolf changes, Pelinals and Shackle outdated, what r u going to use??? im gonna get out my Salvation again and combine it with Chudan and a other Set maby 7th Legion to help my selfheals. What r u guys going 2 do????
Im so hyped, i calculated if you have a 1 sec cooldown on the ww -passive essentially if your doing constant damage the werewolf lasts for 30 secs x 5 so 2.5 min!!!! *** amazing, if you take that x 4 with the Power of the Pack passive your at 10 min if your in a wolfpack without feeding. if they make that staying in a 4 sec feed channel fills up the entire ww bar( @Chrlynsch how did that work on PTS i know you tried it out, how much does staying in t hat 4 sec feed channel fill up the ww-timer? ) i dont see any issues keeping ww up in combat in PvP, youll just have to be more aggressive)

Devour
Works like a dream, how I always hoped it would. It is smooth and responsive. I get about a 2k heal per second, and it can crit heal as well (unsure if spell crit or weapon crit). You get about ticks of time restore before the corpse is consumed. You can devour for two seconds and come back if the corpse is there and finish the last 2 seconds. Feels like the total duration is the same. There is now a blood pillar hovering over those you haven't devoured making it easy to detect what corpses you haven't devoured without hovering over the corpses.

There is now no cooldown on devour. This means you can devour one corpse and then immediately start devouring the next if your timer isn't full. Awesomeness!

@Chrlynsch how many seconds does the feeding add to the werewolf timer?????

IlCanis_LupuslI · July 2018

@Chrlynsch does it fill up the ww bar 50% like now or does it fill up full once the 4 secs are over?

Chrlynsch · July 2018

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

@Chrlynsch does it fill up the ww bar 50% like now or does it fill up full once the 4 secs are over?

You get about 50% of your bar filled like before. Though it adds like 3 sec per second instead of the 12 seconds at the end of the 4 second mark.