Werewolf Theorycrafting (PvP)

Chrlynsch

Bloodrage
Operates like we have theorized. It is a vast improvement in pve. In pvp it leaves a little to be desired.

While in combat and actually fighting you don't notice much difference. While pouncing with feral pounce you notice your bar jump. As you get 8 total seconds for a pounce.

Aznox

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

@Chrlynsch does it fill up the ww bar 50% like now or does it fill up full once the 4 secs are over?

You get about 50% of your bar filled like before. Though it adds like 3 sec per second instead of the 12 seconds at the end of the 4 second mark.

+ the 1-3 seconds we had to spend finding the sweet spot for old devour

Aznox

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Bloodrage
Operates like we have theorized. It is a vast improvement in pve. In pvp it leaves a little to be desired.

While in combat and actually fighting you don't notice much difference. While pouncing with feral pounce you notice your bar jump. As you get 8 total seconds for a pounce.

as i wrote in the other thread :

As for timer don't forget Call of the pack gives you 20% even when alone.

So before if you got hit every 3 sec you would gain timer over time (0,6sec every 3 sec at best).

Now if you do damage every 5 sec you will loose a little over time (0,2 every 5 sec at best)

So this will have to be covered by 2-3 more pounce per minute, but overall the swap from damage received to damage done is still a big boost in PvE and a not-so-bad-maybe-good in PvP.

Aznox

vTrial werewolf incoming :

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5292324#Comment_5292324

I was laughed at so much in the Werewolf discord when i made this hypothesis i had nearly changed my mind about this happening.

Sharee

One thing i like about it in PvP that the target can no longer make you lose form by turtling (or running).

On the other hand, i can no longer cap a resource without losing WW timer by leaving the tower guard alive while capping flag

IlCanis_LupuslI

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Bloodrage
Operates like we have theorized. It is a vast improvement in pve. In pvp it leaves a little to be desired.

While in combat and actually fighting you don't notice much difference. While pouncing with feral pounce you notice your bar jump. As you get 8 total seconds for a pounce.

did they buff it??
cause i thought it was 4 secs

Chrlynsch

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Bloodrage
Operates like we have theorized. It is a vast improvement in pve. In pvp it leaves a little to be desired.

While in combat and actually fighting you don't notice much difference. While pouncing with feral pounce you notice your bar jump. As you get 8 total seconds for a pounce.

did they buff it??
cause i thought it was 4 secs

I am referring to the 4 seconds from pounce and 4 seconds from bloodrage hitting at once.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Oooh thx

Aznox

@Chrlynsch did you test if the new heal crits from weapon or spell crit ?

Chrlynsch

Aznox wrote: »

@Chrlynsch did you test if the new heal crits from weapon or spell crit ?

Haven't tested this yet, I will put it on my list of things.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Best race for werewolf?

Aznox

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Best race for werewolf?

PvE DPS ? probably stam sorc.

PvP ? There probably isn't one single answer.

Chrlynsch

Argonian, Orc, Imperial all synergize best with the new healing mechanic.

rstas

short movie with my test of blood moon set on my ww, could be nice set for some situations:)
https://youtu.be/2FgAtEpNYFU

Darkmage1337

I'm thinking about re-gearing "The Savage-Beast," my DC Redguard Dragonknight, with Werewolf more in mind.
That character is currently my weakest-link character, and mostly a mule for item storage, but currently it is just wearing 2/2 Blood Spawn, 5/5 Warrior-Poet, and 5/5 Plague Doctor, 32 Health, 32 Stamina. So, it's pretty tanky, but that's about it.
Any advice on a WW build as a Redguard DK with the upcoming update changes?

IlCanis_LupuslI

Yeah, I prismatic glyphs on every thing, 1.5k Stam rec unbuffed min, 4k wd min while buffed +glyph+continuous

Philsaster

Hi guys,

with the upcoming changes to werewolf I want to run fury, but I am still thinking about a set to pair it with. Any suggestions?

I was previously going for pelinal, but since it is useless for werewolf now...

I am a Stamina Sorcerer Orc.

IlCanis_LupuslI

@Philsaster I´d try out: Salvation, Bone pirate, Fury, Fasallas Guise, Hulking Daugr my prefference is in that order

miteba

Aznox wrote: »

if the PTS changes go live unmodified :
- Spell damage is now useless
- Max magicka is now a lot less useful
- Magicka recovery equally useful
- Maximum health more useful

Adjust accordingly.
- Pelinal is dead
- 64 points-into-magicka werewolf is dead
- Shacklebreaker may still be good for max magicka and regen, but less useful, using it the new heal is a slight nerf.

What will change in the "healing system" in the next patch?
I tried to find it in the patch notes, but i probably missed it Oo
Can anybody summarize it, please? (not the patch notes just the "heal" changes)

Thanks

Skelfish

miteba wrote: »

What will change in the "healing system" in the next patch?
I tried to find it in the patch notes, but i probably missed it Oo
Can anybody summarize it, please? (not the patch notes just the "heal" changes)

Thanks

Werewolf heal scales off health instead of spell damage and magicka, but still costs magicka to use.

miteba

Skelfish wrote: »

Werewolf heal scales off health instead of spell damage and magicka, but still costs magicka to use.

Thanks for the answer!

So "Green Pact Set" or "Plague Doctor Set" should become viable options…

Qbiken

miteba wrote: »

Skelfish wrote: »

Werewolf heal scales off health instead of spell damage and magicka, but still costs magicka to use.

Thanks for the answer!

So "Green Pact Set" or "Plague Doctor Set" should become viable options…

@miteba
Green Pact > Plague Doctor.

The extra health regen from Green Pact is better than the extra healing received and extra health you get from Plague Doctor.

Assuming you go for a more "permawolf" playstyle (if you just use it for burst then you don´t have to change anything) there´re a few stats that are more important next patch:

• Your health-pool: More HP means bigger heals. I personally think around 30k HP (give or take 2-3k) is optimal
• Magicka Recovery: Our heals still cost magicka, and magicka recovery is therefore very important. If you´re on your own without support (with support I mean stuff like shards, orbs etc), try to aim for at least 1k magicka recovery (that´s what I personally find as a good benchmark). If you use sets like Prisoner´s Rags or Desert Rose you can be fine with having magicka recovery below 1k.

Before I continue I just want to make it clear that this is what I personally go with and is suitable for my playstyle. But feel free to go for those stats and see if you like it. If you don´t then just adjust to your own liking

Next priority is your weapon damage. More weapon damage means more damage (Werewolf 101 xD).
After this you want to have a decent amount of stamina. If you permawolf your stamina is not really used to spam your skills. Your stamina should primary be used to break free, dodge roll and block. Light attacks is your friend. How much stamina is enough? Depends on how often you need to dodge roll, break free and block. You don´t really need 50k+ stamina to be successful as a werewolf. Next patch I think it´s good to aim for 35-40k stamina depending on how much HP you´ve. '

Stamina recovery is important, but you don´t really need above 2k stamina recovery on a werewolf. Off-balance + heavy attack is the "secret sauce" to sustain.

Last priority (IMO) should be your magicka pool. I personally think Mag-recovery > Max magicka next patch. But if you can, try to get around 12k-ish magicka. This will allow you to spam your heal at least 2-3 times and should usually be enough to get you out of execute range.

LegendaryMage

Can confirm Green Pact being superior. I've made a build around it, if you're interested to review the stats feel free to let me know, or post it from my channel yourself.

Qbiken

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Can confirm Green Pact being superior. I've made a build around it, if you're interested to review the stats feel free to let me know, or post it from my channel yourself.

I´m interested

LegendaryMage

@Qbiken Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHB2Thf8_CU

IlCanis_LupuslI

Well nice max stats @LegendaryMage but how on earth do you survive in PvP with such low max magica, such low stam recovery and such low wd?????? Good Job for a 1st attempt on a WW-build thou needs a little work on the sustain & damage end imo but thats just my opinion. Good Job

IlCanis_LupuslI

I usually aim at havving 3.8-3.9k wd in ww form (without Continious) 30k stamina, and 2k stamina recovery without any buffs(as a wood elf), at least 35k resistances and at least 17k-18k magica..



Stats are without Continious Attack only with weapon glyph procced and a tripot taken before

LegendaryMage

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Well nice max stats @LegendaryMage but how on earth do you survive in PvP with such low max magica, such low stam recovery and such low wd?????? Good Job for a 1st attempt on a WW-build thou needs a little work on the sustain & damage end imo but thats just my opinion. Good Job

You don't need a lot of max magicka, 12k or so is enough if your regens are good. It's more important to regenerate it faster than having juice for one more heal in total. In other words, you are much better with 12-13k and 1.2k+ recovery, than 17k and 700 recovery.

On the other hand, stam recovery is one of those stats that will have to suffer if we are to bump up other important aspects of the build (notice how high I'm pushing HP recovery for example). There's no way around this.

You are a Wood Elf so you get a bump there, mine is more about healing faster (ties in nicely to the WW's fast healing theme).

You could use bone pirate + redguard/woodelf + serpent and one cost reduction or regen glyph to increase stam management significantly but you will suffer with survivability, healing output and magicka sustain. At that point only Plague Doctor will be relatively viable, and that's less effective overall for PVP compared to Green Pact.

Like I said, there's just no way around this, we can only aim for a balanced approach, but in big battles in PVP (this is NOT a dueling build), survivability and healing is a lot more important than damage. You can't damage anyone if you're respawning often.

Since WWs have lots of stam return on heavy attacks (and we're in heavy with some CP investments, plus tactician), we can take a little bit of advantage here and optimize rotations to include those every now and then. True, they are clunky and slow, but they are better than nothing.

I find that with good tankiness and healing you can afford to cast them often without worrying too much.

As for the damage, the damage is pretty good actually. I've got 40k stamina with (I presume it works in WW) tons of armor pen, some nice bleeds & dmg over time poisons, overall that's 10k more stam than your 30k pool, which if I'm not mistaken is pretty much equal to about 1k extra weapon damage, so we're about the same in the damage department all things considered, except that this build is a lot tankier and survivable.

Qbiken

LegendaryMage wrote: »

@Qbiken Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHB2Thf8_CU

Nice
I like that you mention the off-balance + Heavy Attack combo. Very few werewolfs that I see around utilize that. A few things:

[

• It doesn´t matter what weapons you´re using while in WW-form. The weapon-passives doesn´t carry over anyway. Poisons, enchants, traits, armor passives and class passives carries over however.
• When it comes to the CP-tree I highly recommend putting at least 32 points into Blessed. This unlocks the Spell Precision passive which gives you 12% more spell-critical. Very useful since our heal uses spell-crit to determine the critical rating. But don´t put any points into Elfborn. I tried that and it simply wasn´t worth it (loose too much damage)
• I´m personally not sure what will be best in terms of jewelry trait. I´m still experimenting with 3x infused + weapon damage enchant, triune and robust. I can even see 3x protective and swift being quite decent to be honest.

@Mangeli200194
With the amount of physical penetration he achieves (around 11k) you gain around 16-17%% extra damage to all skills (assuming no shields) but your bleed, which isn´t bad. The magicka recovery is on point. And people who know what they´re doing next patch will run magicka cost-poisons against a werewolf, which makes magicka recovery more important than max magicka. His max stamina is actually really good for a "HP-tank setup", 40k is a good threshold to go for.

Only stat that´s "bad" is the weapon damage, but otherwise I think the other stats are on point. I haven´t found a way to get good overall stats together with high weapon damage unless I run imperial physique (which is the most ridiculous WW-set next patch) and that´s limited to a certain instance in PvP.

LegendaryMage

You can swap argo for redguard, overall healing will be lower, sustain will be somewhat higher, but don't expect miracles just from a race change (you'll also lose immunity to some status effects).

You can also put infused on the other weapon and use 450 absorb stam glyph to amplify redguard's adrenaline rush basically.

And if even that is not good enough, then use Serpent stone, but bye bye mag sustain and healing power, it's getting dangerous at that point...

@Qbiken There's not many options we can go for in terms of set combos and other details. It will all depend for what we're building in the end.

I built for big battles in Cyrodiil and this is it pretty much. I don't see any other combos being more viable in those conditions.

Basic common sense dictates that in big battles you WILL get hit all the time, and at that point only two things happen. Either you melt, or you don't. I'd rather not.

And yeah, infused is not bad on jewelry, triune is good also, I'd probably put that one over robust now that I think about it, and swift I'd rather skip if I already have major expedition from a pot.