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Counter to bleed builds?
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Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is a build I'm currently developing as the anti-cancer utilizing my stamplar for just this purpose.
The difference is I'm throwing Blessed Meridia in there as well to stop pretty much entire ticks of bleed just by holding block and causing everything to miss, while applying my own bleeds in the process
And just blessed meridia's alone is OP in every pvp capacity. Using my own damage set on top with bleeds and defiles shocks peopleEdited by Nelson_Rebel on April 13, 2018 8:52PM2 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭And yes it is cheesy as hell.
But ZoS is keeping the set as is, so screw it. Use what works1 -
DTStormfox✭✭✭✭✭There is no counter, why not?
Bleeds can be applied 100% of the time, there is no internal cooldown to them. The moment you purge or cleanse or use a set like Wyrd Tree's Blessing, you will be bleeding again. ZOS made armor values meaningless, especially in no-cp, by making bleeds ignore all resistances. You might as well run naked with only some rings and weapons of Wizard's Reposte to make a small difference.
You think you can burst those bleeds builds down, because they are glass cannons, aren't they?
Wrong again: Yes, when they take damage, they take a lot of damage. However, you are overlooking sustain. To run a bleed build, which basically = free damage build, you only need sustain sets (like the Eternal Hunt set and Shacklebreaker set)!
In other words, those builds can deal tons of damage for free and roll dodge infinitely to avoid damage. You don't have to mitigate incoming damage if you can always avoid it, don't you?
Since most of the bleed builds are based on stamina nightblades they most of the time have the option to simply vanish (using cloak) and appear again with full health after a few seconds. And guess what. These builds don't only have great sustain in stamina, but also in the department of magicka recovery. Meaning, they can cloak in quick succession and stay in cloak for a prolonged period of time.
What does that mean for this game?
It means that you do NOT need any skill to play this game anymore. Give a random noob you can pull from the street a stamblade with the bleed abilities and passives, put him some sustain sets on and he can rule even the most skilled players in this game. Did you spend hours on mastering your build? Bad luck, that noob with the bleedblade will kill you every time.
To ZOS ( @ZOS_GinaBruno )
Fix this, it is ruining everybody's fun. In my guild, everybody is already looking for an alternative game to play. 'Cause it just isn't fun to see that being a (bleed) noob is being encouraged, and having some level of experience/skill is not.0 -
Drakkdjinn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bleed build Pioneer here: the hard counters are a competently played magplar, magblade & shieldspam sorc builds. You're welcome.5 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Drakkdjinn wrote: »Bleed build Pioneer here: the hard counters are a competently played magplar, magblade & shieldspam sorc builds. You're welcome.
Great meaning 7 specs can just relog when they meet a bleed build?
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Drakkdjinn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drakkdjinn wrote: »Bleed build Pioneer here: the hard counters are a competently played magplar, magblade & shieldspam sorc builds. You're welcome.
Great meaning 7 specs can just relog when they meet a bleed build?
Kindly google "hard counter", sir.1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Drakkdjinn wrote: »Drakkdjinn wrote: »Bleed build Pioneer here: the hard counters are a competently played magplar, magblade & shieldspam sorc builds. You're welcome.
Great meaning 7 specs can just relog when they meet a bleed build?
Kindly google "hard counter", sir.
I know what hardcounters are and what not. Magplar isn't one, it's just time consuming taking one down but it's still rather easy. Magblade is the only true hardcounter due to cloak and shield. Against most sorcs you can at least force draws as they have to spam their shields to withstand the pressure.
Bleed builds are a hard counter for more builds than builds counter them but that's mainly due to defile being way too strong combined with bleeds.
I think bleeds are 5-10% too strong but defiles are what needs to be changed first before touching bleeds0 -
Pinja✭✭✭✭A few whispered it but wards are a good counter. Where Damage over Time implies your making progress slowly over time a ward will devour any PoT to be maid on a health bar. A high bar hinders executes and Stam sorcs don't have class spams so full DoT builds there are almost hard countered.Edited by Pinja on April 15, 2018 10:00PM0 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bleed builds with defile built in will get you through ward eventually. As it is difficult to sustain 3k magicka skills indefinitely. One well timed stun ult like incap and DBoS, your shield gone, stunned, then you see your health drop like nothing. Only real counters are cloak because "Miss!" do no damage.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel1 -
Abysswarrior45✭✭✭✭Karmanorway wrote: »Healing? Like, any kind of healing?
You counter bleed damage like you would counter ANY OTHER DOT damage. There is nothing special about bleeds, except they ignore resistances. So the more resistance you have, the more annoying and "hardhitting" they will be.
So how do you counter MagDK ? How do you counter any kind of damage in the game?
In this case, you cannot counter by Blocking or Mitigating with Resistances. So you can either;
Shield it (Damage Shield that is)
Purge it
Heal it
There is nothing special about bleeds at all. It is just a DoT like everything else.
You are right, its not the bleed itself thats the problem, its the stacking
So, the stacking of DoTs?
Answer is still the same. You counter by either purging the DoTs or healing through them. Do not understand why anyone would not know this.
Any player, especially solo players, who want to be successful won't have room for purge because they need every skill already on their bar and purge is too damn expensive. Moreover it only cleanses 1 negative effect. I've had a 28k vigor tooltip before on my solo stam dk build and you can't heal through the dots certain builds can stack on you. Your hp just sits still. Purge is one of the most absurd counter arguments to threads about Zaan and bleeds and heal debuffs. Go run purge on a stam build solo and show me consistent 1vXes. Do it on a stam dk, stamblade or stamsorc.
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Abysswarrior45 wrote: »Karmanorway wrote: »Healing? Like, any kind of healing?
You counter bleed damage like you would counter ANY OTHER DOT damage. There is nothing special about bleeds, except they ignore resistances. So the more resistance you have, the more annoying and "hardhitting" they will be.
So how do you counter MagDK ? How do you counter any kind of damage in the game?
In this case, you cannot counter by Blocking or Mitigating with Resistances. So you can either;
Shield it (Damage Shield that is)
Purge it
Heal it
There is nothing special about bleeds at all. It is just a DoT like everything else.
You are right, its not the bleed itself thats the problem, its the stacking
So, the stacking of DoTs?
Answer is still the same. You counter by either purging the DoTs or healing through them. Do not understand why anyone would not know this.
Any player, especially solo players, who want to be successful won't have room for purge because they need every skill already on their bar and purge is too damn expensive. Moreover it only cleanses 1 negative effect. I've had a 28k vigor tooltip before on my solo stam dk build and you can't heal through the dots certain builds can stack on you. Your hp just sits still. Purge is one of the most absurd counter arguments to threads about Zaan and bleeds and heal debuffs. Go run purge on a stam build solo and show me consistent 1vXes. Do it on a stam dk, stamblade or stamsorc.
Why does bleeds have this perk of ignoring resistances, outside of ''Its a bleed hurr durr'' role play thing?
Why burning, poisoning or freezing someone is less effective on more armored opponents, but bleeds just outright ignore armor?
This is one thing I just don't understand. IRL the less armor you have, the worse cuts you would get, the bigger chance of bleeding out. It works the opposite of real life in this game.
This perk makes bleeds the best kind of dot in this game. You can just stack weapon damage and have massive bleed ticks as a result,
This is soooo damn effective even venomous claws seems like a *** ability compared to bleeds, and venom claws is supposed to be the scariest dot ability you will encounter, Its just absurd to see venom claws do like 5k damage over 10 seconds and blood craze do 8-10k.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 16, 2018 6:45AM0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Counter pressure... That's pretty much itFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info3 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Counter pressure... That's pretty much it
Let me guess you play nightblade?
All classes which struggle against bleed builds can't counter pressure them.
Things like Stamsorc with troll king can't be pressured they have enough healing to kill you in 95% of the fights noatter how hard you'll try to pressure them.
Either you 1 shot them with will+ incap and can heal up with cloak or you play a stamclass and lose to bleed + defiles.
1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Counter pressure... That's pretty much it
well the issue with that is that bleed builds very usually do the bigger pressure, all you have to do is drop the bleeds, proc the poisons defile then block,dodge,cloak,kite etc.
Your opponent will be burning way too much resources just to try and survive.
The bleed from 2h axe actually outperforms my venomous claws ,and it applies for free, its easier than applying a poison most of the time. I think bleeds do need to scale worse with weapon damage, because the person does not need to build into penetration.
Either way I'm using bleeds a lot nowadays, and I will keep using unless it stops being ridicilously powerful. I just see no point using a sword or mace,with the amount of free damage axe bleeds offer me and for dual wield I just go with axe-dagger, for both the bleed and the crit chance.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 16, 2018 9:09AM1 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Counter pressure... That's pretty much it
Let me guess you play nightblade?
All classes which struggle against bleed builds can't counter pressure them.
Things like Stamsorc with troll king can't be pressured they have enough healing to kill you in 95% of the fights noatter how hard you'll try to pressure them.
Either you 1 shot them with will+ incap and can heal up with cloak or you play a stamclass and lose to bleed + defiles.
Literally all damage to an opponent is considered counter presure no matter what class you playFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info1 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭DeathI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
Karmanorway✭✭✭✭✭
✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »Bleed builds with defile built in will get you through ward eventually. As it is difficult to sustain 3k magicka skills indefinitely. One well timed stun ult like incap and DBoS, your shield gone, stunned, then you see your health drop like nothing. Only real counters are cloak because "Miss!" do no damage.
This, when i was in IC yesterday on my magsorc, i ran into a stamsorc bleed build, and it went down like this,
Hurricane, twin slashes, rearming trap, bloodthirst, ballista dead. 5 second fight, had both hardened ward + annulment with imperial physique buff ...Edited by Karmanorway on April 16, 2018 9:07AM0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Counter pressure... That's pretty much it
Let me guess you play nightblade?
All classes which struggle against bleed builds can't counter pressure them.
Things like Stamsorc with troll king can't be pressured they have enough healing to kill you in 95% of the fights noatter how hard you'll try to pressure them.
Either you 1 shot them with will+ incap and can heal up with cloak or you play a stamclass and lose to bleed + defiles.
Literally all damage to an opponent is considered counter presure no matter what class you play
I'll just assume you are a nightblade because that's the only class that can counter pressure bleed builds as they can just heal up with cloak and then try to burst with incap.
Try it on a stamdk, stamplar, stamwarden or non bleed stamsorc. It doesn't work you can't pressure the bleed build because they are one of the specs with the most pressure.
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Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Counter pressure... That's pretty much it
Let me guess you play nightblade?
All classes which struggle against bleed builds can't counter pressure them.
Things like Stamsorc with troll king can't be pressured they have enough healing to kill you in 95% of the fights noatter how hard you'll try to pressure them.
Either you 1 shot them with will+ incap and can heal up with cloak or you play a stamclass and lose to bleed + defiles.
Literally all damage to an opponent is considered counter presure no matter what class you play
I'll just assume you are a nightblade because that's the only class that can counter pressure bleed builds as they can just heal up with cloak and then try to burst with incap.
Try it on a stamdk, stamplar, stamwarden or non bleed stamsorc. It doesn't work you can't pressure the bleed build because they are one of the specs with the most pressure.
I would say stamina wardens could out heal a bleed-build due to the tool-kit they´ve access to, but other stam-classes have it rough.
I personally run werewolf in PvP and don´t have too much trouble with bleed builds, but it´s mainly because I can counter with more pressure than the opponent using the bleed build, forcing them to go defensive instead of applying their bleeds and DoTs.
Problem with a nerf to bleed-builds is that you limit the amount of counters against tanky heavy armor builds. And I don´t want the heavy armor meta to become more common than it already is.
The common thing for almost all bleed-builds is that they use it together with Defile-debuffs and poisons. I find it weird to come to the conclusion that bleed is the thing overperforming of the three. Same thing goes for stuff like Trollking. The monster set on its own will never carry a build, but in addition to other sources of healing it takes a decent build just over the line to a good build.
A first step in the right direction would be to rework defiles (and the befoul passive) and poisons before nerfing bleed. I personally find those two things to overperform more than bleeds.Edited by Qbiken on April 16, 2018 9:41AM2 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Counter pressure... That's pretty much it
Let me guess you play nightblade?
All classes which struggle against bleed builds can't counter pressure them.
Things like Stamsorc with troll king can't be pressured they have enough healing to kill you in 95% of the fights noatter how hard you'll try to pressure them.
Either you 1 shot them with will+ incap and can heal up with cloak or you play a stamclass and lose to bleed + defiles.
Literally all damage to an opponent is considered counter presure no matter what class you play
I'll just assume you are a nightblade because that's the only class that can counter pressure bleed builds as they can just heal up with cloak and then try to burst with incap.
Try it on a stamdk, stamplar, stamwarden or non bleed stamsorc. It doesn't work you can't pressure the bleed build because they are one of the specs with the most pressure.
I would say stamina wardens could out heal a bleed-build due to the tool-kit they´ve, but other stam-classes have it rough.
Stamwarden defenitly has the best chances to survive the longest but even with wardens healing and survivability superiority they lose very often to bleed + defiles. There is just so much healing you can get in one second and bleed builds out damage it almost all the time which sets you live on a timer that will end no matter what you try.
A 1v1 against a competent opponent with a bleed build isn't something you'll win on non nb stam specs0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Counter pressure... That's pretty much it
Let me guess you play nightblade?
All classes which struggle against bleed builds can't counter pressure them.
Things like Stamsorc with troll king can't be pressured they have enough healing to kill you in 95% of the fights noatter how hard you'll try to pressure them.
Either you 1 shot them with will+ incap and can heal up with cloak or you play a stamclass and lose to bleed + defiles.
Literally all damage to an opponent is considered counter presure no matter what class you play
I'll just assume you are a nightblade because that's the only class that can counter pressure bleed builds as they can just heal up with cloak and then try to burst with incap.
Try it on a stamdk, stamplar, stamwarden or non bleed stamsorc. It doesn't work you can't pressure the bleed build because they are one of the specs with the most pressure.
I would say stamina wardens could out heal a bleed-build due to the tool-kit they´ve, but other stam-classes have it rough.
Stamwarden defenitly has the best chances to survive the longest but even with wardens healing and survivability superiority they lose very often to bleed + defiles. There is just so much healing you can get in one second and bleed builds out damage it almost all the time which sets you live on a timer that will end no matter what you try.
A 1v1 against a competent opponent with a bleed build isn't something you'll win on non nb stam specs
Unless said stamwarden also goes for a bleed+defile build, while maintaining a huge burst potential with Sub + DBoS combined with supreme defensive ability.
This is what I think whenever I play my stamsorc and compare it to what the stamwarden can offer.EU | PC | AD1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Counter pressure... That's pretty much it
Let me guess you play nightblade?
All classes which struggle against bleed builds can't counter pressure them.
Things like Stamsorc with troll king can't be pressured they have enough healing to kill you in 95% of the fights noatter how hard you'll try to pressure them.
Either you 1 shot them with will+ incap and can heal up with cloak or you play a stamclass and lose to bleed + defiles.
Literally all damage to an opponent is considered counter presure no matter what class you play
I'll just assume you are a nightblade because that's the only class that can counter pressure bleed builds as they can just heal up with cloak and then try to burst with incap.
Try it on a stamdk, stamplar, stamwarden or non bleed stamsorc. It doesn't work you can't pressure the bleed build because they are one of the specs with the most pressure.
I would say stamina wardens could out heal a bleed-build due to the tool-kit they´ve, but other stam-classes have it rough.
Stamwarden defenitly has the best chances to survive the longest but even with wardens healing and survivability superiority they lose very often to bleed + defiles. There is just so much healing you can get in one second and bleed builds out damage it almost all the time which sets you live on a timer that will end no matter what you try.
A 1v1 against a competent opponent with a bleed build isn't something you'll win on non nb stam specs
Unless said stamwarden also goes for a bleed+defile build, while maintaining a huge burst potential with Sub + DBoS combined with supreme defensive ability.
This is what I think whenever I play my stamsorc and compare it to what the stamwarden can offer.
I just do the headless chicken tactic then with my stamsorc and Run away with streak after i applied all dots. Most people will try to hunt you down and die in the process
Also i kinda like stamsorc more for bleed builds as you can easily sustain with DD and go full Wpndmg and those implosion procs are just disgusting
and when you are outnumbered you have far higher chance to get away with streak + hurricane 0 -
Aznox✭✭✭✭✭Two questions :
Is slotting one ability (twin slashes) on a dual wield bar what we are calling a "bleed build" ?Hurricane, twin slashes, rearming trap, bloodthirst, ballista dead. 5 second fight, had both hardened ward + annulment with imperial physique buff ...
I you think "bleed build" is the strongest setup for a stam character and you are using a stam character, why not use a "bleed build" yourself ? You stop having an unfair fight and it eventually get nerfed for the sake of game diversity, double win.A 1v1 against a competent opponent with a bleed build isn't something you'll win on non nb stam specs
Aznox
PC EU
Khajiit Orc Bosmer Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf Stage 3 Vampire
I live in Battlegrounds
Theorycrafting enthusiast
Official Cheese Lord
CP1500+ club2 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Two questions :
Is slotting one ability (twin slashes) on a dual wield bar what we are calling a "bleed build" ?Hurricane, twin slashes, rearming trap, bloodthirst, ballista dead. 5 second fight, had both hardened ward + annulment with imperial physique buff ...
I you think "bleed build" is the strongest setup for a stam character and you are using a stam character, why not use a "bleed build" yourself ? You stop having an unfair fight and it eventually get nerfed for the sake of game diversity, double win.A 1v1 against a competent opponent with a bleed build isn't something you'll win on non nb stam specs
People don't play meta becouse they enjoy doing something else, not everyone is a "I WANT TO WIN AND WIN ONLY" kind of player. People like to have a good fight with whatever they use.
It's like saying "since this shotgun is overpowered, why not using it". Becouse i wound't enjoy it. I would be carried by it, i wound't use any skill to win.I meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations1 -
Karmanorway✭✭✭✭✭
✭Two questions :
Is slotting one ability (twin slashes) on a dual wield bar what we are calling a "bleed build" ?Hurricane, twin slashes, rearming trap, bloodthirst, ballista dead. 5 second fight, had both hardened ward + annulment with imperial physique buff ...
I you think "bleed build" is the strongest setup for a stam character and you are using a stam character, why not use a "bleed build" yourself ? You stop having an unfair fight and it eventually get nerfed for the sake of game diversity, double win.A 1v1 against a competent opponent with a bleed build isn't something you'll win on non nb stam specs
If they use blood drinker on top of that + master weapons then yeah. Why would i play something that dont require skill? When i pvp i do it to get better, not pressing 1 button and let my sets do the rest.
Edit: Bleed/dot with defile builds IS the strongest, but please prove me wrongEdited by Karmanorway on April 16, 2018 10:17AM0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Counter pressure... That's pretty much it
Let me guess you play nightblade?
All classes which struggle against bleed builds can't counter pressure them.
Things like Stamsorc with troll king can't be pressured they have enough healing to kill you in 95% of the fights noatter how hard you'll try to pressure them.
Either you 1 shot them with will+ incap and can heal up with cloak or you play a stamclass and lose to bleed + defiles.
Literally all damage to an opponent is considered counter presure no matter what class you play
I'll just assume you are a nightblade because that's the only class that can counter pressure bleed builds as they can just heal up with cloak and then try to burst with incap.
Try it on a stamdk, stamplar, stamwarden or non bleed stamsorc. It doesn't work you can't pressure the bleed build because they are one of the specs with the most pressure.
I would say stamina wardens could out heal a bleed-build due to the tool-kit they´ve, but other stam-classes have it rough.
Stamwarden defenitly has the best chances to survive the longest but even with wardens healing and survivability superiority they lose very often to bleed + defiles. There is just so much healing you can get in one second and bleed builds out damage it almost all the time which sets you live on a timer that will end no matter what you try.
A 1v1 against a competent opponent with a bleed build isn't something you'll win on non nb stam specs
Unless said stamwarden also goes for a bleed+defile build, while maintaining a huge burst potential with Sub + DBoS combined with supreme defensive ability.
This is what I think whenever I play my stamsorc and compare it to what the stamwarden can offer.
I just do the headless chicken tactic then with my stamsorc and Run away with streak after i applied all dots. Most people will try to hunt you down and die in the process
Also i kinda like stamsorc more for bleed builds as you can easily sustain with DD and go full Wpndmg and those implosion procs are just disgusting and when you are outnumbered you have far higher chance to get away with streak + hurricane
StamSorc certainly more mobile but StamWarden is a far better brawler. Shutting down all projectile damage with Shimmering while also getting: Major Heroism, Major Fracture, Major Breach (less relevant), Major Mending, Major Savagery, Minor Protection, Minor Toughness, an "oh crap" AoE healing ult or Major Protection with unblockable AoE CC. All that on top of those innate burst heals and damage. Half of that stuff is also buffs to teammates. And all that on a bleed-defile build.
I know which of the two I'd rather have in group. Implosion, while very nice, doesn't even out all the stuff Stamden has. It doesn't even begin to.EU | PC | AD1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Counter pressure... That's pretty much it
Let me guess you play nightblade?
All classes which struggle against bleed builds can't counter pressure them.
Things like Stamsorc with troll king can't be pressured they have enough healing to kill you in 95% of the fights noatter how hard you'll try to pressure them.
Either you 1 shot them with will+ incap and can heal up with cloak or you play a stamclass and lose to bleed + defiles.
Literally all damage to an opponent is considered counter presure no matter what class you play
I'll just assume you are a nightblade because that's the only class that can counter pressure bleed builds as they can just heal up with cloak and then try to burst with incap.
Try it on a stamdk, stamplar, stamwarden or non bleed stamsorc. It doesn't work you can't pressure the bleed build because they are one of the specs with the most pressure.
I would say stamina wardens could out heal a bleed-build due to the tool-kit they´ve, but other stam-classes have it rough.
Stamwarden defenitly has the best chances to survive the longest but even with wardens healing and survivability superiority they lose very often to bleed + defiles. There is just so much healing you can get in one second and bleed builds out damage it almost all the time which sets you live on a timer that will end no matter what you try.
A 1v1 against a competent opponent with a bleed build isn't something you'll win on non nb stam specs
Unless said stamwarden also goes for a bleed+defile build, while maintaining a huge burst potential with Sub + DBoS combined with supreme defensive ability.
This is what I think whenever I play my stamsorc and compare it to what the stamwarden can offer.
I just do the headless chicken tactic then with my stamsorc and Run away with streak after i applied all dots. Most people will try to hunt you down and die in the process
Also i kinda like stamsorc more for bleed builds as you can easily sustain with DD and go full Wpndmg and those implosion procs are just disgusting and when you are outnumbered you have far higher chance to get away with streak + hurricane
StamSorc certainly more mobile but StamWarden is a far better brawler. Shutting down all projectile damage with Shimmering while also getting: Major Heroism, Major Fracture, Major Breach (less relevant), Major Mending, Major Savagery, Minor Protection, Minor Toughness, an "oh crap" AoE healing ult or Major Protection with unblockable AoE CC. All that on top of those innate burst heals and damage. Half of that stuff is also buffs to teammates. And all that on a bleed-defile build.
I know which of the two I'd rather have in group. Implosion, while very nice, doesn't even out all the stuff Stamden has. It doesn't even begin to.
Ah yeah I wasn't talking about group play. For solo i prefer bleed build stamsorc over bleed stam warden but nothing beats a normal stam warden build for Solo0 -
Aznox✭✭✭✭✭People don't play meta becouse they enjoy doing something else, not everyone is a "I WANT TO WIN AND WIN ONLY" kind of player. People like to have a good fight with whatever they use.
I understand, but do you guys realize that you will spend you whole life chasing something you cannot obtain ?
Best players will always use the strongest tools at their disposal, you could nerf "the meta" every month, and those players would always be ahead of you, using the next best thing.
Edited by Aznox on April 16, 2018 10:28AMAznox
PC EU
Khajiit Orc Bosmer Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf Stage 3 Vampire
I live in Battlegrounds
Theorycrafting enthusiast
Official Cheese Lord
CP1500+ club3 -
ErMurazor✭✭✭✭✭Stop saying that stamwarden and stamsorc bleedbuild are OP. Stamblade are the OP one according to the forumwarriors.0