Counter to bleed builds?

Skoomah

This thread is a joke. How to counter a bleed build? Have strong heals, shields, purge, cloak, movement. Out dps the bleeder and kill them before they can dps you down, because it takes time to ramp up the bleeds. Pvp requires burst but bleed builds take time to take full effect, that people who have solid defense rotations out mitigate the damage no problem. Learn to play and stop complaining on the forums to get ZOS to fundamentally change the game to help your whiny butts win. Bleeds are not OP. People who don't invest in defenses and cry in the forums to negate an entire playstyle is OP.

Karmanorway

Skoomah wrote: »

This thread is a joke. How to counter a bleed build? Have strong heals, shields, purge, cloak, movement. Out dps the bleeder and kill them before they can dps you down, because it takes time to ramp up the bleeds. Pvp requires burst but bleed builds take time to take full effect, that people who have solid defense rotations out mitigate the damage no problem. Learn to play and stop complaining on the forums to get ZOS to fundamentally change the game to help your whiny butts win. Bleeds are not OP. People who don't invest in defenses and cry in the forums to negate an entire playstyle is OP.

Im asking a serious question, not trying to destroy anyones playstyle, but hey if my writing is a problem for u maybe its time to start taking a look inwards instead of outwards.

And its funny you mention these obvious tactics, u think i havent tried that? I have several times 1vsXed real pvpers over the years, funny thing is what all of them had in common was that none of them were bleed/dot builds.. meanwhile i can get completely crushed by 1 stamsorc/stamplar within 30 seconds.. but no u are right bleed builds are not op, its just a l2p issue right:p

Outhealing doesnt work unless u are a healer, which means u cant kill the pvper anyways, with vigor up and heal ulti i still die through it

Outdps him lol, with full hurricane, endless roll dodging, procd zaan, blood craze, and steel tornado spam, gl with that, but hey maybe u know about some oneshot godbuild im not aware off

Cloak it, yea i really do wish i had cloak on my stamden, could always avoid the twin slashes by roll dodging ... a few times until theres no stamina to either heal or block the flurry spam

Purge it? Sure purge 1 time all magicka gone, bleeds reapplied instantly.

But again, im not trying to destroy that playstyle, 20k passive unresistable free dmg + 18k unavoidable unresistable dmg (zaan) with the tap off 2 buttons (reverb bash, twin slashes) within seconds .... is not op, if ppl cant handle it its a l2p issue

There u go, now i have done exactly what u are accusing me of in your post. #nerfbleedbuilds

Edit: Just a question, are u playing a bleed build yourself? Cuz then i can understand why u are so defensive over the playstyle..

Skoomah

You play a stamden, just out heal the dots and turtle up and wait for ultimate and burst combo to go off. Bleed builds take forever to ramp up. It's certainly a L2P issue.

ezeepeezee

I'm not sure what you people mean when you say bleed builds "take forever." I run a 2h/DW build on my stam sorc with hurricane and blade cloak. Yes, it's all DoT damage, but it tends to all hit in the same small window of time, so it's extremely efficient. The caveat is that I have to stay on top of my target.

But, I can apply both of my bleeds - brawler and twin slashes (with master weapons) - extremely quickly. HA > cleave > [swap] > LA > Twin. It can be applied in 2 GCD. Not hard, at all, and certainly not slow. By the next GCD, I'm hitting with DB > steel tornado, or whatever else is best at the moment.

Bleed builds are not "slow." They don't insta-gib, but I don't use my bleeds to do that anyway. I use DB and executes. The bleeds are for more resilient targets, and it works well. But DoTs have always been for that.

What's the complaint? You can't wombo-combo people with high damage, single target spammables? Guess what, nobody can do that to a target that's spec'd against it. If you nerf bleeds, or DoTs in general, then you welcome back the era of unkillable tanks. I'm sure that's what you want, right?

edit: I just want to clarify, because the more I think about it the more I'm annoyed by this thread. Bleed builds are prevalent, imho, because for a long time Cyrodiil was plagued by builds with such high direct damage that multitudes of people died over and over to players who used those builds correctly. The pendulum swung, and there was a time where there were hordes of tanks in Cyrodiil just to deal with it. It seems to me that it's now swinging back - but it's a little different. Now we're in a place where it's necessary to build for all things - sustain, direct damage, direct damage mitigation, DoT/AoE damaged, DoT/AoE mitigation. If your build is sub-par in any of these areas, you'll feel it. Bleeds fill this nice by allowing strong DoT application to be stacked with good direct damage. This wasn't common for stamina for a long time, but the more you come across tanky healbots and constant shielding, the more you realize you have to build to deal with it.

This is how it should be.

Skoomah

There's been nerfs to so many play styles that eventually we'll run out of options to be effective.

New strategy: Cry for nerfs to all play styles that allow for effective solo and small group play.

Effect: Everyone joins a ball group, tank up, hit with light attacks, out heal all damage, and ultimate bomb. GG.

ak_pvp

Simple. Play EZ blade and take no dot damage.

CyrusArya

You counter bleed builds the same way you counter anything, by getting good and learning to play. You heal, you evade, you mitigate, you pressure, you burst. It’s no different from countering any build, and the proper question to ask would be how do you counter dual wield templar/nb/sorc/dk/warden specifically because the answer will vary wholly class by class. That’s what people who scapegoat bleeds for why they are getting rekt simply don’t understand. Bleeds are just dots, there’s much more to the dual wield brawler spec than just that. And more over, most of the time it’s the player and not the build that gives you trouble. I only find bleed specs, and indeed any build, troubling insofar as thenplayer behind it. People just love something to point a finger at and absolve themselves of blame.

At any rate, bleeds add diversity and variability in playstyle the game. In strictly 1v1 situations, sword and board is superior and open world 2h tends to be superior. Dual wield kinda sits somewhere between. Nerf bleeds kill diversity. Especially true next patch with the buffs coming to 2h.

IlCanis_LupuslI

bpmachete wrote: »

The stam sorc bleed build guys say, kill us before we kill you, and I didn't see anyone mention that their Dark Deal is now uninterruptable. They already were super tough, now whenever you CC them or if they take and immovable they can Dark Deal right in your face, like a Breath of Life on PEDs and they can do it all over again. I like powerful warriors so props to them... gotta gang up on them... then they will complain noone one v ones with the uninterruptable Dark Deal beasts...

@bpmachete
Venom arrow

Venom_Arrow.png
Cast Time Instant
Target Enemy
Range 28m range
Cost 2430 Stamina
Shoot an arrow coated in Shadowscale poison at an enemy, dealing 4990 Poison Damage and an additional 9200 Poison Damage over 10 seconds.

If the enemy hit is casting an ability they are interrupted, set off balance, and stunned for 3seconds.

If the enemy hit is casting an ability they are interrupted, set off balance and stunned.
Only if your Stam of course, works miracles against stamsorcs

IlCanis_LupuslI

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Ok lets be honest here, against a proper bleed build, they will be using Defile along with their
bleed damage. Every. Time.

Purge will not ever work. it costs 7 thousand magic for the fully morphed efficient purge morph. No one in this game can sustain a DAMAGE pvp build with a 7 thousand magic cost purge skill. You will die, very quickly if you try to use this as a counter.


Most bleed builds have s&B for reverb bash (stun and defile) and use heroic slash to reduce your damage too. So not only are you going to be constantly getting bashed, defiled, and reduced damage. You have to find a way to burst them in about 30 seconds because your self healing WILL fail on any build around that time against a bleed build.


The simple answer is realisticly, you can't. If your opponent is even halfway decent, you will most likely die unless you are a stamblade with massive burst. Other than that, your best bet is to just walk away.

I hate to say it, but you cant do anything against a defile/bleed/maim build who is using damage setups and their own monster set on top of it.

Runnning your own bleed build on a stamplar hard counters, but its just using the same tactic, the big difference is having cleanse at your disposal

All you can do is hope they are just bad or walk away

Usually on my ww when they do those shinanigans against me I defile them back stun them and put my dots on them..
Or as my uncle says: DAWA YA MOTO NI MOTO
Meaning essentially fight fire with fire

BohnT

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

bpmachete wrote: »

The stam sorc bleed build guys say, kill us before we kill you, and I didn't see anyone mention that their Dark Deal is now uninterruptable. They already were super tough, now whenever you CC them or if they take and immovable they can Dark Deal right in your face, like a Breath of Life on PEDs and they can do it all over again. I like powerful warriors so props to them... gotta gang up on them... then they will complain noone one v ones with the uninterruptable Dark Deal beasts...

@bpmachete
Venom arrow

Venom_Arrow.png
Cast Time Instant
Target Enemy
Range 28m range
Cost 2430 Stamina
Shoot an arrow coated in Shadowscale poison at an enemy, dealing 4990 Poison Damage and an additional 9200 Poison Damage over 10 seconds.

If the enemy hit is casting an ability they are interrupted, set off balance, and stunned for 3seconds.

If the enemy hit is casting an ability they are interrupted, set off balance and stunned.
Only if your Stam of course, works miracles against stamsorcs

There are 2 states in PvP, being CCed or being CC immune, any decent stamsorc can and will use Dark Deal when he can't be interrupted which is a huge window especially when mixed with CC immunity potions.
There's a reason the best stamsorcs are running 0 regen atm because you can sustain so easily with DD without having to worry about being interrupted

Ragnaroek93

CyrusArya wrote: »

You counter bleed builds the same way you counter anything, by getting good and learning to play. You heal, you evade, you mitigate, you pressure, you burst. It’s no different from countering any build, and the proper question to ask would be how do you counter dual wield templar/nb/sorc/dk/warden specifically because the answer will vary wholly class by class. That’s what people who scapegoat bleeds for why they are getting rekt simply don’t understand. Bleeds are just dots, there’s much more to the dual wield brawler spec than just that. And more over, most of the time it’s the player and not the build that gives you trouble. I only find bleed specs, and indeed any build, troubling insofar as thenplayer behind it. People just love something to point a finger at and absolve themselves of blame.

At any rate, bleeds add diversity and variability in playstyle the game. In strictly 1v1 situations, sword and board is superior and open world 2h tends to be superior. Dual wield kinda sits somewhere between. Nerf bleeds kill diversity. Especially true next patch with the buffs coming to 2h.

From my experience it's the opposite, that bleedbuilds are strong in duels and bad in open world (unless you have a heal or shieldbot in your group but in that case other specs are better for group play) because you simply can't tank more than one player with dual wield, in fact you can't even tank one player, you only survive by doing tons of pressure against him.

I don't think they need a nerf at this point tho. Sure, bleedbuilds are cheesy in duels but not as overperforming as defile, Sloads, petsorcs etc.

Ragnarock41

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

You counter bleed builds the same way you counter anything, by getting good and learning to play. You heal, you evade, you mitigate, you pressure, you burst. It’s no different from countering any build, and the proper question to ask would be how do you counter dual wield templar/nb/sorc/dk/warden specifically because the answer will vary wholly class by class. That’s what people who scapegoat bleeds for why they are getting rekt simply don’t understand. Bleeds are just dots, there’s much more to the dual wield brawler spec than just that. And more over, most of the time it’s the player and not the build that gives you trouble. I only find bleed specs, and indeed any build, troubling insofar as thenplayer behind it. People just love something to point a finger at and absolve themselves of blame.

At any rate, bleeds add diversity and variability in playstyle the game. In strictly 1v1 situations, sword and board is superior and open world 2h tends to be superior. Dual wield kinda sits somewhere between. Nerf bleeds kill diversity. Especially true next patch with the buffs coming to 2h.

From my experience it's the opposite, that bleedbuilds are strong in duels and bad in open world (unless you have a heal or shieldbot in your group but in that case other specs are better for group play) because you simply can't tank more than one player with dual wield, in fact you can't even tank one player, you only survive by doing tons of pressure against him.

I don't think they need a nerf at this point tho. Sure, bleedbuilds are cheesy in duels but not as overperforming as defile, Sloads, petsorcs etc.

This is exactly the case, you're spot on. But I would say that the combination of master dw+defile is definitely overperforming, especially on a class that is already very strong without all of that, in other words, bleed blades are kind of scary.

Maryal

.

jaws343 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

My Stam Sorc uses Bleeds (Dual Wield Double Axes) Since I don't want to play the Two Hander it feels clunky and slow. I get root and snare immunity from Retreating Maneuvers(2k+ Stam Regen before a pot in Heavy Armor + Dark Deal allows me to use it very liberally, and it helps those around me as an added bonus) and Draining Shot as a Burst Heal.

Dual Wield has no execute, so Bleeds are simply throwing Duel Wield users a bone...As you can only beat people with it by putting a lot of pressure on them. Also, Bleeds are the only real counter to permablocking tanks. If you want to kill them in any reasonable amount of time you have to stack dots and bleeds on them.

Dual Wield lacks the burst and execute TH and Bow have (Poison Injection and Reverse Slice Respectively) So they get Bleeds instead to deal a little extra damage. Now the Two Handed Axe passive probably needs to be changed and not have a bleed since they have access to an execute in Reverse Slash, but the dual wield axe passive certainly needs to be left alone unless your going to give us vastly under represented dual wield specs an actual execute.

Pretty sure steel tornado is the dual wield execute.

Yep, steel tornado is the execute skill ... not a very flashy execute skill, but it works.

Maryal

The bleed from DW has been around forever. When you get hit with DW bleed damage, just pop a health pot and carry on (makes you pay attention to your health bar).

DW bleed damage enhanced with Master weapons = a very potent DOT, but not 'OP.'

Stinging Slashes Set ("The Master's Axe, Mace, Sword, Dagger" from Dragonstar Arena)
(2 Items): Increases the bleed damage Twin Slashes deals by 1500 each tick.

Twin Slashes: Slice enemy with both weapons to cause deep lacerations, dealing x Physical Damage and causing them to bleed for an additional x Physical Damage over 9 seconds.

Minor defile + DW bleed damage enhanced by Master Weapons creates a nasty combination that comes right up to the 'OP' line, but doesn't cross it. (Keep in mind, you are hit with the enhanced bleed damage (DOT) in addition to the burst damage from whatever skill combination and/or other proc set was used.)

When Major defile was added to the game, it became the 'OP' catalyst. Any type of powerful damage (damage combination) that doesn't immediately kill you, instantly becomes OP when major defile is involved ... especially when you get hit with a combo that includes DW bleed DOTs enhanced with Master Weapons. The problem is made even worse when both major/minor defile are stacked.

ChunkyCat

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eNr0WXQ3Ho4

Ragnarock41

Maryal wrote: »

The bleed from DW has been around forever. When you get hit with DW bleed damage, just pop a health pot and carry on (makes you pay attention to your health bar).

DW bleed damage enhanced with Master weapons = a very potent DOT, but not 'OP.'

Stinging Slashes Set ("The Master's Axe, Mace, Sword, Dagger" from Dragonstar Arena)
(2 Items): Increases the bleed damage Twin Slashes deals by 1500 each tick.

Twin Slashes: Slice enemy with both weapons to cause deep lacerations, dealing x Physical Damage and causing them to bleed for an additional x Physical Damage over 9 seconds.

Minor defile + DW bleed damage enhanced by Master Weapons creates a nasty combination that comes right up to the 'OP' line, but doesn't cross it. (Keep in mind, you are hit with the enhanced bleed damage (DOT) in addition to the burst damage from whatever skill combination and/or other proc set was used.)

When Major defile was added to the game, it became the 'OP' catalyst. Any type of powerful damage (damage combination) that doesn't immediately kill you, instantly becomes OP when major defile is involved ... especially when you get hit with a combo that includes DW bleed DOTs enhanced with Master Weapons. The problem is made even worse when both major/minor defile are stacked.

I believe that blood craze should never, under any circumstance, %100 outperform venomous claws, considering claws is a purely damage ability with no other benefits, while blood craze does damage, heals, snares, and ignores resistances.

So I ask you, what would you think about venomous claws if it hit you for 9k to 12k instead of 5k to 7k?

Thats how much I get hit by blood craze coming from a proper build with master dw, and when master dw isn't used, blood craze still hits me a little harder than claws does, while also having a strong snare or a strong heal over time.

As a stamDK main(yes, the supposed ''dot class'' , that is outperformed by any bleed), I do believe bleeds are overperforming and doing way more damage than they should. Considering a bleed build does not have to take penetration into account so it is a lot easier to just stack weapon damage to maximize damage output, while also getting greater heals.

I do believe this is one of the situations where weaker one should be buffed, or other should be nerfed. I really don't care much either way, but there should be clear drawback for using either one, and bleeds should only outperform claws(or other dots for that matter) when used against a high resistance target, if a bleed is still outperforming a regular but strong dot against a low resistance target ,then that is not working as intended.

Morgul667

Being tired of getting wrecked in BG
Im thinking to go sload on my stamsorc

Do you advise heavy or medium?

Waffennacht

Morgul667 wrote: »

Being tired of getting wrecked in BG
Im thinking to go sload on my stamsorc

Do you advise heavy or medium?

For BGs I recommend medium, the added offensive is more valuable along with sustain imo.

ATomiX96

just spam some kind of cleanse. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL




no but on the serious side, most classes and builds just get destroyed by bleeds especially in combination with defiles (*cough* heavy armor bleedblades).
unless youre a templar (or have a flex spot for purge lel) with extended ritual there is realisticly 0 (ZERO, none, nothing) counterplay.
Bleeds right now are just overperforming so hard, due to being able to proc of any melee attacks and ignoring any physical resistance. In noncp environment its even worse than cp because hardy and thick skinned dont kick in to counterplay bleeds, therefore pretty much all good players (in noncp environment, on a stamina spec) are playing some kind of dot/bleed pressure build.

Ragnaroek93

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

You counter bleed builds the same way you counter anything, by getting good and learning to play. You heal, you evade, you mitigate, you pressure, you burst. It’s no different from countering any build, and the proper question to ask would be how do you counter dual wield templar/nb/sorc/dk/warden specifically because the answer will vary wholly class by class. That’s what people who scapegoat bleeds for why they are getting rekt simply don’t understand. Bleeds are just dots, there’s much more to the dual wield brawler spec than just that. And more over, most of the time it’s the player and not the build that gives you trouble. I only find bleed specs, and indeed any build, troubling insofar as thenplayer behind it. People just love something to point a finger at and absolve themselves of blame.

At any rate, bleeds add diversity and variability in playstyle the game. In strictly 1v1 situations, sword and board is superior and open world 2h tends to be superior. Dual wield kinda sits somewhere between. Nerf bleeds kill diversity. Especially true next patch with the buffs coming to 2h.

From my experience it's the opposite, that bleedbuilds are strong in duels and bad in open world (unless you have a heal or shieldbot in your group but in that case other specs are better for group play) because you simply can't tank more than one player with dual wield, in fact you can't even tank one player, you only survive by doing tons of pressure against him.

I don't think they need a nerf at this point tho. Sure, bleedbuilds are cheesy in duels but not as overperforming as defile, Sloads, petsorcs etc.

This is exactly the case, you're spot on. But I would say that the combination of master dw+defile is definitely overperforming, especially on a class that is already very strong without all of that, in other words, bleed blades are kind of scary.

But these builds aren't viable in open world. I don't see heavy armor bleedblades outside of duels because it's complete garbage in open world. In my opinion the patch looks pretty magicka favoured with all the changes and bleeds aren't the thing what I'm concerned about: Stamnb got indirectly nerfed by releasing Sloads (my Vigor heals less than Sloads deals damage on me when I'm hit by Defile on a 40k stamina and 3.4k wpndmg build and my defense gets disabled by Sloads) and stamsorcs, stamdks and stamplars were already not so great before the patch. It's just sad that after 4 years bow still isn't playable on anything but Nbs and only as kind of buff bar or as snipe ganker, I guess ZOS don't want fast paced builds to be viable.

Morgul667

Waffennacht wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Being tired of getting wrecked in BG
Im thinking to go sload on my stamsorc

Do you advise heavy or medium?

For BGs I recommend medium, the added offensive is more valuable along with sustain imo.

thanks

surprised as I was expecting people to advise Heavy for this kind of dot builds

Aedaryl

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

You counter bleed builds the same way you counter anything, by getting good and learning to play. You heal, you evade, you mitigate, you pressure, you burst. It’s no different from countering any build, and the proper question to ask would be how do you counter dual wield templar/nb/sorc/dk/warden specifically because the answer will vary wholly class by class. That’s what people who scapegoat bleeds for why they are getting rekt simply don’t understand. Bleeds are just dots, there’s much more to the dual wield brawler spec than just that. And more over, most of the time it’s the player and not the build that gives you trouble. I only find bleed specs, and indeed any build, troubling insofar as thenplayer behind it. People just love something to point a finger at and absolve themselves of blame.

At any rate, bleeds add diversity and variability in playstyle the game. In strictly 1v1 situations, sword and board is superior and open world 2h tends to be superior. Dual wield kinda sits somewhere between. Nerf bleeds kill diversity. Especially true next patch with the buffs coming to 2h.

From my experience it's the opposite, that bleedbuilds are strong in duels and bad in open world (unless you have a heal or shieldbot in your group but in that case other specs are better for group play) because you simply can't tank more than one player with dual wield, in fact you can't even tank one player, you only survive by doing tons of pressure against him.

I don't think they need a nerf at this point tho. Sure, bleedbuilds are cheesy in duels but not as overperforming as defile, Sloads, petsorcs etc.

This is exactly the case, you're spot on. But I would say that the combination of master dw+defile is definitely overperforming, especially on a class that is already very strong without all of that, in other words, bleed blades are kind of scary.

But these builds aren't viable in open world. I don't see heavy armor bleedblades outside of duels because it's complete garbage in open world. In my opinion the patch looks pretty magicka favoured with all the changes and bleeds aren't the thing what I'm concerned about: Stamnb got indirectly nerfed by releasing Sloads (my Vigor heals less than Sloads deals damage on me when I'm hit by Defile on a 40k stamina and 3.4k wpndmg build and my defense gets disabled by Sloads) and stamsorcs, stamdks and stamplars were already not so great before the patch. It's just sad that after 4 years bow still isn't playable on anything but Nbs and only as kind of buff bar or as snipe ganker, I guess ZOS don't want fast paced builds to be viable.

Why heavy armor bleedblade aren't playable in openworld ?

They have everything, cloak + shadow Image + good healing + best damage in the all game.

People refuse to play heavy armor bleedblade because they are used to rollerblade.

But there is no reason it coudn't be viable in openworld, it's like a heavy stamsorc, but with better sustain and damage with cloak and shadow Image for reset fight and get away. All the stats and skills from bleedblade are viable in openworld.

There is already heavyarmor bleedblade in battlegroung...

Ragnarock41

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

You counter bleed builds the same way you counter anything, by getting good and learning to play. You heal, you evade, you mitigate, you pressure, you burst. It’s no different from countering any build, and the proper question to ask would be how do you counter dual wield templar/nb/sorc/dk/warden specifically because the answer will vary wholly class by class. That’s what people who scapegoat bleeds for why they are getting rekt simply don’t understand. Bleeds are just dots, there’s much more to the dual wield brawler spec than just that. And more over, most of the time it’s the player and not the build that gives you trouble. I only find bleed specs, and indeed any build, troubling insofar as thenplayer behind it. People just love something to point a finger at and absolve themselves of blame.

At any rate, bleeds add diversity and variability in playstyle the game. In strictly 1v1 situations, sword and board is superior and open world 2h tends to be superior. Dual wield kinda sits somewhere between. Nerf bleeds kill diversity. Especially true next patch with the buffs coming to 2h.

From my experience it's the opposite, that bleedbuilds are strong in duels and bad in open world (unless you have a heal or shieldbot in your group but in that case other specs are better for group play) because you simply can't tank more than one player with dual wield, in fact you can't even tank one player, you only survive by doing tons of pressure against him.

I don't think they need a nerf at this point tho. Sure, bleedbuilds are cheesy in duels but not as overperforming as defile, Sloads, petsorcs etc.

This is exactly the case, you're spot on. But I would say that the combination of master dw+defile is definitely overperforming, especially on a class that is already very strong without all of that, in other words, bleed blades are kind of scary.

But these builds aren't viable in open world. I don't see heavy armor bleedblades outside of duels because it's complete garbage in open world. In my opinion the patch looks pretty magicka favoured with all the changes and bleeds aren't the thing what I'm concerned about: Stamnb got indirectly nerfed by releasing Sloads (my Vigor heals less than Sloads deals damage on me when I'm hit by Defile on a 40k stamina and 3.4k wpndmg build and my defense gets disabled by Sloads) and stamsorcs, stamdks and stamplars were already not so great before the patch. It's just sad that after 4 years bow still isn't playable on anything but Nbs and only as kind of buff bar or as snipe ganker, I guess ZOS don't want fast paced builds to be viable.

This patch magicka dominance is back for sure. But I disagree on bleedblade being unplayable open world. They are better suited for open world than a stamDK or a stamplar.

Either way I have no desire to play eso in this summer. I'll go check it out in the next 6 months or so, to see if they made any progress.

skyhawk002

How are these bleed builds for Stamden any different than for Stam Sorc?

Waffennacht

skyhawk002 wrote: »

How are these bleed builds for Stamden any different than for Stam Sorc?

I prefer Stamsorc? But you're correct, it's not really class related

Troneon

ATomiX96 wrote: »

just spam some kind of cleanse. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL




no but on the serious side, most classes and builds just get destroyed by bleeds especially in combination with defiles (*cough* heavy armor bleedblades).
unless youre a templar (or have a flex spot for purge lel) with extended ritual there is realisticly 0 (ZERO, none, nothing) counterplay.
Bleeds right now are just overperforming so hard, due to being able to proc of any melee attacks and ignoring any physical resistance. In noncp environment its even worse than cp because hardy and thick skinned dont kick in to counterplay bleeds, therefore pretty much all good players (in noncp environment, on a stamina spec) are playing some kind of dot/bleed pressure build.

This ^^

You can be full support/heal /tank build, cleanse 100 times, heal through it whatever, all dots especially the broken sloads just re applies instantly and there is no counter play at all, not even a decent set to use to counter it.

Dots are just the strongest thing right now and they are over used because of it, cleanse is useless just like everything else against dots.

Noobslayer3255

skyhawk002 wrote: »

How are these bleed builds for Stamden any different than for Stam Sorc?

I run a bleed build on both my Stam warden and Stam Sorc, same setups except on the warden I wear bloodspawn and on the sorc I wear troll king.


Stam Sorc has way more pressure + sustained damage, and easy as hell insta execute (implosion). Can also build for more damage (different food, mundus, or jewelry enchants) on Stam Sorc than stamden since you can comfortably run around with 600 Stam regen and sustain via dark deal.

Stam warden has worse pressure and sustained damage, due to lack of hurricanee, implosion, and class passives, and also because you need to spec more in to regen than the Sorc. But, the stamden does have considerably higher burst potential than Sorc with subterranean assault. Stamden also has crazy ult gen, is substantially tankier (never get hit by a ranged build if you’re good about keeping your shield up) and has better healing.

Minno

Morgul667 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Being tired of getting wrecked in BG
Im thinking to go sload on my stamsorc

Do you advise heavy or medium?

For BGs I recommend medium, the added offensive is more valuable along with sustain imo.

thanks

surprised as I was expecting people to advise Heavy for this kind of dot builds

Medium takes time to get used to but it's more reactive and more reactive makes you a better player over time. Plus cost reduction, stamina recovery, Sprint speed and extra WD is harder to come by than resists and 8% healing received for certain builds/classes.

For example, Templars have next to nothing for stamina sustain, but they have a major armor buff boosting rune that gives 8% healing done with mag return or 8% DMG mitigation with 8% heading done and 8% healing received for a total of 16% extra self healing. That alone makes HA redundant, since it's major passives only increase your health, health recovery and armor with Constitution only giving you sustain if you are hit.

It's build dependant. Some classes can sustain heavy armor (nightblades+wardens) and others can't (Templars).

Zeromaz

Oh jesus.... haven’t you figured out by now this game is rock paper scissors? You think everyone dies to a bleed build? Of course not. Someone out there is doing just fine against them so either change your build or deal with it. You will never create the god build you’re looking for that destroys everything out there.

Bleeds are in the game for a reason. Without defile, healers will never get killed. Without bleeds, you won’t take down permablockers. You need a broader vision of the game... not just from your shoes.

Skoomah

That's right brother! Speak the truth! Let the haters cry MORE!