This is how broken the algorythm behind master writ system is

I_killed_Vivec · February 2018

Feric51 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

NEW FEATURES / UPDATES / BIG CHANGES

Master Crafting Writs
Maximum-tier Writ reward boxes for all tradeskills now have a chance to provide a special invitation to craft a very specific item or set of items.
These invitations may require any materials or knowledge associated with the tradeskill, even if you don’t yet possess it.
These invitations are tradeable, consumable, and indicate the number of Writ Vouchers awarded upon successful completion of the contract.
The frequency of Master Writ invites from standard Writ boxes is based on the overall associated tradeskill mastery possessed by the character.
This includes research, Motif knowledge, and achievement completion.

^^^ From Homestead patch notes....

Who can do Master Writs?

Not just anyone! Master Writs are meant specifically for masters – they require specific sets, or specific crafting styles, that not everyone has access to. Further, Master Writs are only awarded to players completing the hardest normal crafting Writs, and are more common when you have a lot of dedication. For example, Blacksmithing, Woodworking, and Clothier Master Writs are more common if you've done a lot of difficult research; Provisioning Master Writs are more common when you've learned a lot of difficult recipes; Enchanting Master Writs are more common when you've translated a lot of runes; and Alchemy Master Writs are more common when you've fully identified a lot of herbs. The more you've done in that tradeskill, the better your odds on each normal Writ you complete.

^^^ From Homestead Guide: Master Writs blog article

Edits for clarification.

And yet...

On a personal basis this is clearly not true, or at least any advantage is completely insignificant given the wider implementation of RNG.

I have two maxed out crafters (level 50 in all crafts). One knows everything (all traits, all motifs, all runes, all reagents, most recipes). The other knows the bare minimum you need to get to level 50 in a reasonable time, half a dozen motifs and no traits - no "research" in the ESO sense of learning traits.

There's little to choose between them when it comes to getting master writs - either in frequency or value. If anything my dim crafter is slightly luckier. I've been doing master writs since they started and I would expect to see some bias, however slight, to the clever crafter, but there is none.

It's not like ZoS always do what they say they will...

SirAndy · February 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Are you aware what RNG is? It's not like "you get X items from Y tries of a specific action", it's more like "you have X chance every time you do that specific action".

I always have to cringe when people bring this up as an argument trying to "prove" that there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with RNG based drops.

So you paid attention in class for an hour or so and remembered some of the basics about RNG, bravo!

What you (and people like you) are missing completely is that RNG in this game (and most games these days) is *heavily* weighted and filtered and often has exceptions overruling the outcome.

There is no pure RNG in ESO so trying to use pure RNG as a dismissal is completely irrelevant!
(and please don't ever use the 'computers can't do pure RNG' line, it will only show your ignorance)

The bottom line here is, since every RNG roll in this game is heavily weighted it is absolutely possible that a weight table can include errors that manifest itself the way the OP describes.

Feric51 · February 2018

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

And yet...

On a personal basis this is clearly not true, or at least any advantage is completely insignificant given the wider implementation of RNG.

I have two maxed out crafters (level 50 in all crafts). One knows everything (all traits, all motifs, all runes, all reagents, most recipes). The other knows the bare minimum you need to get to level 50 in a reasonable time, half a dozen motifs and no traits - no "research" in the ESO sense of learning traits.

There's little to choose between them when it comes to getting master writs - either in frequency or value. If anything my dim crafter is slightly luckier. I've been doing master writs since they started and I would expect to see some bias, however slight, to the clever crafter, but there is none.

It's not like ZoS always do what they say they will...

I posted mainly to refute Cavedog's claims that ZoS never stated anything beyond having the skill line at 50 would increase the chances of a master writ.

As I rarely do daily writs on anything other than my main crafter, I don't have much evidence to support or negate claims that these factors do actually increase the odds. I'm a firm proponent that all RNG aspects of the game are heavily weighted as you suggest, and would find it difficult to claim otherwise from both anecdotal and well-tested data sets.

As many unintended "bugs" or other code errors we've seen this game develop when changing something completely unrelated, I can see the likelihood that somehow the weighted RNG is backwards and actually penalizing characters who have more crafting knowledge, and benefiting the ones who know the bare minimum.

helediron · February 2018

Just copying my answer to OP

While better crafters earn more writs, that does not easily turn to more vouchers. This is because RNG affects very much the amount of vouchers in single writ, easily overshadowing the writ difference. Only over very long time more writs turn to move vouchers. Writ content seem to be completely random and crafter goodness does not affect it.

If you have one good and one bad crafter, the good one will eventually earn more vouchers, but it takes probably few years. Numbers available here and here

xaraan · February 2018

Feels kind of like being max crafter/styles known just increases the drop chance of Master Writs in general and not the chance of a 'good' one, that is just completely random no matter your skill level, so even guys that aren't maxed out still have the same chance of getting one. Just the master will get more chances since they will get more writs.

Taleof2Cities · February 2018

You’re right, @xaraan.

The voucher amount for the master writ is pure RNG after the roll + modifier to receive your chance at a master writ.

Not sure if the OP is just ignoring this part ... out of another different frustration with the drop or system as a whole.

disintegr8 · February 2018

@xaraan is right, the more 'skilled' your crafter is, the greater their chance of receiving a master writ, what that writ delivers is down to RNG.

My main crafter was 9 trait and had learned every motif I had ever found before master writs were introduced. He has clearly got more MW's than all of my other characters but could not keep up on the voucher count.

While I now have seven other 8 trait crafters, all of them with very little motif knowledge, my 2 highest voucher writs (251 and 257) have been received by one of these, not my main crafter, who now knows all bar 6 complete motif sets.

themaddaedra · February 2018

The OP has a point. People should stop explaining all of the ZoS' abusements by saying "RNG included".

Yes but how far that RNG goes? I also have a very very master crafter char who knows all motifs, researched all traits, got all master furhisher achievements, read over %90 of the existing recipes, yet since the master writ system was released, guess how much difference this char has with my barely crafter, knowing only it's own racial style and nothing else toon? ZERO.

Most of the time i get a 5-6-7 vouchers writ everyday regardless to which char it drops, and sometimes it's around 40-60 again regardless to which character it drops.

So ZoS introduced this sytstem as if you will feel special by the time you become a better crafter, and feel rewarded, but at the end it makes ZERO difference on the reward given. Except for being able to craft the writ you drop, which is not given by ZoS anyways.

I also would rather see this in a better way. As a master crafter all i can advice to new researchers is to not waste time on anything if you don't care for achievement points. There always is a good person to craft you what you need, and spending months on crafting skills won't bring you anything but achievement points.

InvitationNotFound · February 2018

I've started a statistics thread long time ago (it contains the data of 20 days with several chars)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/324880/master-writs-statistics

I've stopped writing down further details but maybe someone else did and wants to share some information?

I think Provisioning is still quite a mess, at least it feels like that.

Edit: Typo

supaskrub · February 2018

So here we go again.. Today the non-crafter (with zero books learned and no traits) gets a writ for 101 vouchers and the 9 trait guy with lots of learned motifs (full books) gets one for 6 vouchers.

So over the last two months at least the crappy crafter is being rewarded (on average) significantly higher than the best crafter.. For me and some others who have commented in this thread it defies logic and gives no meaning to being a better crafter, You can call it being lucky with rng if that pleases you and puts closure on the matter but to me i call it a poor show that is not rewarding enough for a better crafter and is over rewarding for a poor crafter.

Slick_007 · February 2018

themaddaedra wrote: »

The OP has a point. People should stop explaining all of the ZoS' abusements by saying "RNG included".

abusements? if you think they are abusing you, why are you here?

Yes but how far that RNG goes? I also have a very very master crafter char who knows all motifs, researched all traits, got all master furhisher achievements, read over %90 of the existing recipes, yet since the master writ system was released, guess how much difference this char has with my barely crafter, knowing only it's own racial style and nothing else toon? ZERO.

Most of the time i get a 5-6-7 vouchers writ everyday regardless to which char it drops, and sometimes it's around 40-60 again regardless to which character it drops.

and thats as far as i read since you didnt bother reading anything on this topic before posting this fallacy of an argument.

themaddaedra · February 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

The OP has a point. People should stop explaining all of the ZoS' abusements by saying "RNG included".

abusements? if you think they are abusing you, why are you here?

Yes but how far that RNG goes? I also have a very very master crafter char who knows all motifs, researched all traits, got all master furhisher achievements, read over %90 of the existing recipes, yet since the master writ system was released, guess how much difference this char has with my barely crafter, knowing only it's own racial style and nothing else toon? ZERO.

Most of the time i get a 5-6-7 vouchers writ everyday regardless to which char it drops, and sometimes it's around 40-60 again regardless to which character it drops.

and thats as far as i read since you didnt bother reading anything on this topic before posting this fallacy of an argument.

Idk what you are complaining about here. It's none of your business why i still play or why i'm here. And since you are not making any point to anything, i believe this is my one and only respond.

Wreuntzylla · February 2018

I now have ~20 9/9 toons across accounts. Because of the cost of ancestor silk, I tend to also run a slew of no-research lvl 50's (both character and crafting level). I absolutely get more master writs on my 9/9's. I also see more high value master wits on the 9/9's. But, I see no correlation to the voucher value of the writ. Sure, the 9/9's get more, but that is in the noise of getting more master writs overall.

I understand why they changed the system after master writs were released to be the way it is. The average player running an average amount of writs can't amass enough vouchers to buy anything in a reasonable amount of time. As a result, the uproar on these forums was considerable. Of course, they probably don't have the motif (but its in crown store boxes!) or the legendary tempers to spare, or that potent nirncrux, but at least they can sell it for a reasonable amount of gold.

So, although low value writs are a painful time sink for me, I still think the system is better the way it is.