This is how broken the algorythm behind master writ system is

supaskrub

I have 14 characters, of which only 1 of these characters has 9 traits in all 3 major crafting skills and around 90% of all styles learned. This character gets master writs regularly of 5/6/7 vouchers with the occasional one in the 40's. Today I did my daily clothing on a character with no traits researched and only clothing at level 50 and only blue racial styles learned and this character gets a master clothing writ for 74 vouchers... yes 74 vouchers.. Discuss!

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Chilly-McFreeze

So you get a nice writ one time on a char that "doesn't deserve it" and think you can deduce something from it?

I came here to get an actual insight on the algorythm behind the system. Instead I had to read whining about RNG.

supaskrub

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

So you get a nice writ one time on a char that "doesn't deserve it" and think you can deduce something from it?

I came here to get an actual insight on the algorythm behind the system. Instead I had to read whining about RNG.

Sure it doesn't deserve it when compared to my main crafter (or others that i have with supposedly better chances of receiving higher value master writs.. So are you saying it does deserve it?.. and you know the algorythm is supposedly the more traits researched + styles learned = supposedly better chances of master writs and with higher rewards.

If the character I refer to had received a master writ voucher for 5/6/7 vouchers it would not be an issue. So instead of a half arsed reply that added nothing to the issue why not contribute something constructive to the thread instead of trying to be a smart arse.

Chilly-McFreeze

Uff... Okay. Since the system was released:

How many writs did you looted on your crafter? And how many vouchers were they worth?
How many writs did you looted on one of your non-crafters? And how many vouchers were they worth?

Are you aware what RNG is? It's not like "you get X items from Y tries of a specific action", it's more like "you have X chance every time you do that specific action".

From your post alone it seems like you got one big writ only on your non crafter. So what's the big deal? I've run some dungeons 100 times and didn't get what I wanted, while my partner did it once and recieved that specific item. That's the way of the RNG. It's stupid and we all hate it. But from one occassion alone you are not able to reveal a whole algorythm.

supaskrub

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Uff... Okay. Since the system was released:

How many writs did you looted on your crafter? And how many vouchers were they worth?
How many writs did you looted on one of your non-crafters? And how many vouchers were they worth?

Are you aware what RNG is? It's not like "you get X items from Y tries of a specific action", it's more like "you have X chance every time you do that specific action".

From your post alone it seems like you got one big writ only on your non crafter. So what's the big deal? I've run some dungeons 100 times and didn't get what I wanted, while my partner did it once and recieved that specific item. That's the way of the RNG. It's stupid and we all hate it. But from one occassion alone you are not able to reveal a whole algorythm.

Because its like this.. It is stated that the more motifs (ie full books only that you have learned) AND traits that you have researched on a particular character increases your chances of higher value master writs and the frequency of writs. Now the character in question has not one single qualifying factor (other than 10 skill points into clothing at level 50), only full style books learned are the blue racials which DO NOT qualify for inclusion in the algorythm. There is not 1 single trait researched, not 1 single full purple (or gold) style book learned. Other characters that I have do indeed have more qualifying factors and yet struggle to get voucher values above 7, but on occasion do get higher. Also consider this another crafter of mine that has a few traits researched (and its probably 2-3 per item piece) and around 40% of qualifying styles learned still consistently receives master writs with a higher value than my main crafter which has far more qualifying points. Infact that one has received the highest value master writ I have ever had.

Now onto the point of rng, rng decides firstly whether you receive a master writ and then using criteria decides by rng what value writ to award.. There is NO qualifying criteria on the character that influences higher value writs,

Chilly-McFreeze

Yes, qualifications from researched traits and fully learned styles raise your chance to recieve a writ or a higher number of vouchers on a writ.
But as it seems the base chance to recieve a writ in the first place, even without any qualifying options is not 0. And also the base chance to have that writ carry a high number on vouchers (again without any qualifications) is also higher than 0.

My guess is that you just got very lucky on your non-crafters and that you have bad luck on your crafters. In the end you also have to take a look on how consistent you recieve vouchers/writs on your crafters and non crafters. Even X times low vouchers add up over time.

However, RNG is not the bright side of this game. If you want to make a real conclusion you need far more data. Although I can understand it feels disappointing to have better rewards from non-crafters.

Asardes

Traits researched and styles known for armor and weapons, properties discovered for alchemy ingredients, runes translated for enchanting and recipes known for provisioning, all contribute to the chance of getting a writ, but they seem to have little influence on its voucher value. Also I've heard that investing more points in that skill line and various misc achievements for that crafting trade may increase the chance as well, but I haven't seen any confirmation for this. Also I'd rather get multiple lower value master writs since they have better cost/writ. Those over 60 usually require gold tempers, which are about 10x more expensive than purple, and you need twice as many. So I really don't complain about that.

SolidusPrime

I feel the same way. Writ drops have been broken for a long time now. My crafters that know absolutely no motifs, no purples recipes etc find just as many writs just as frequently as my guy that has lots of 14/14 motifs, purple recipes, etc. There is no difference.

There were people talking in chat the other day, saying that this patch was supposed to start accurately calculating your known recipes and stuff. I haven't seen that anywhere official though.

LiquidPony

supaskrub wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Uff... Okay. Since the system was released:

How many writs did you looted on your crafter? And how many vouchers were they worth?
How many writs did you looted on one of your non-crafters? And how many vouchers were they worth?

Are you aware what RNG is? It's not like "you get X items from Y tries of a specific action", it's more like "you have X chance every time you do that specific action".

From your post alone it seems like you got one big writ only on your non crafter. So what's the big deal? I've run some dungeons 100 times and didn't get what I wanted, while my partner did it once and recieved that specific item. That's the way of the RNG. It's stupid and we all hate it. But from one occassion alone you are not able to reveal a whole algorythm.

Because its like this.. It is stated that the more motifs (ie full books only that you have learned) AND traits that you have researched on a particular character increases your chances of higher value master writs and the frequency of writs. Now the character in question has not one single qualifying factor (other than 10 skill points into clothing at level 50), only full style books learned are the blue racials which DO NOT qualify for inclusion in the algorythm. There is not 1 single trait researched, not 1 single full purple (or gold) style book learned. Other characters that I have do indeed have more qualifying factors and yet struggle to get voucher values above 7, but on occasion do get higher. Also consider this another crafter of mine that has a few traits researched (and its probably 2-3 per item piece) and around 40% of qualifying styles learned still consistently receives master writs with a higher value than my main crafter which has far more qualifying points. Infact that one has received the highest value master writ I have ever had.

Now onto the point of rng, rng decides firstly whether you receive a master writ and then using criteria decides by rng what value writ to award.. There is NO qualifying criteria on the character that influences higher value writs,

But you're just demonstrating that you really don't understand RNG. Hint: it's *random.* Probability means nothing with a sample size of one.

You honestly think this was worth tagging a ZOS employee over? Because you got lucky and got a high value writ on a low level crafter?

Jesus.

Cavedog

I highly doubt that the number of styles or traits a character knows plays a role. It's only your level of crafting in that skill line that makes a difference. If you are max level in that skill line, your master writ drop rate is maxed. ...then it's all rng after that, and we all know what rng is like in this game.

danno8

Cavedog wrote: »

I highly doubt that the number of styles or traits a character knows plays a role. It's only your level of crafting in that skill line that makes a difference. If you are max level in that skill line, your master writ drop rate is maxed. ...then it's all rng after that, and we all know what rng is like in this game.

No, when the writ system was release a ZoS employee posted that motif knowledge raised your chances of getting a clothing/blacksmith/woodworker writ, as did purple food/drink recipe for provisioning.

Qbiken

supaskrub wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Uff... Okay. Since the system was released:

How many writs did you looted on your crafter? And how many vouchers were they worth?
How many writs did you looted on one of your non-crafters? And how many vouchers were they worth?

Are you aware what RNG is? It's not like "you get X items from Y tries of a specific action", it's more like "you have X chance every time you do that specific action".

From your post alone it seems like you got one big writ only on your non crafter. So what's the big deal? I've run some dungeons 100 times and didn't get what I wanted, while my partner did it once and recieved that specific item. That's the way of the RNG. It's stupid and we all hate it. But from one occassion alone you are not able to reveal a whole algorythm.

Because its like this.. It is stated that the more motifs (ie full books only that you have learned) AND traits that you have researched on a particular character increases your chances of higher value master writs and the frequency of writs. Now the character in question has not one single qualifying factor (other than 10 skill points into clothing at level 50), only full style books learned are the blue racials which DO NOT qualify for inclusion in the algorythm. There is not 1 single trait researched, not 1 single full purple (or gold) style book learned. Other characters that I have do indeed have more qualifying factors and yet struggle to get voucher values above 7, but on occasion do get higher. Also consider this another crafter of mine that has a few traits researched (and its probably 2-3 per item piece) and around 40% of qualifying styles learned still consistently receives master writs with a higher value than my main crafter which has far more qualifying points. Infact that one has received the highest value master writ I have ever had.

Now onto the point of rng, rng decides firstly whether you receive a master writ and then using criteria decides by rng what value writ to award.. There is NO qualifying criteria on the character that influences higher value writs,

No matter how many traits or books you´ve researched, you can never affect how many vouchers a writ will be. Motif knowledge and traits researched and stuff like that only affects your chance of getting a master-writ.

Ermiq

I have noticed the same.
On my main crafter with 7-8 traits researched (a couple of 9th traits are in progress) and ~40% motifs known, I'm getting master writs more often, but they are 5-7 vouchers worth mostly.
On my secondary crafter with 5-7 traits researched and only blue racial motifs known, I'm getting less master writs, but I'm getting 40+ vouchers worth writs on this character more often.

Fleshreaper

supaskrub wrote: »

I have 14 characters, of which only 1 of these characters has 9 traits in all 3 major crafting skills and around 90% of all styles learned. This character gets master writs regularly of 5/6/7 vouchers with the occasional one in the 40's. Today I did my daily clothing on a character with no traits researched and only clothing at level 50 and only blue racial styles learned and this character gets a master clothing writ for 74 vouchers... yes 74 vouchers.. Discuss!

@ZOS_GinaBruno

You do know you can transfer that master writ over to your main, right? As long as you don't open it.

Ashtaris

supaskrub wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Uff... Okay. Since the system was released:

How many writs did you looted on your crafter? And how many vouchers were they worth?
How many writs did you looted on one of your non-crafters? And how many vouchers were they worth?

Are you aware what RNG is? It's not like "you get X items from Y tries of a specific action", it's more like "you have X chance every time you do that specific action".

From your post alone it seems like you got one big writ only on your non crafter. So what's the big deal? I've run some dungeons 100 times and didn't get what I wanted, while my partner did it once and recieved that specific item. That's the way of the RNG. It's stupid and we all hate it. But from one occassion alone you are not able to reveal a whole algorythm.

Because its like this.. It is stated that the more motifs (ie full books only that you have learned) AND traits that you have researched on a particular character increases your chances of higher value master writs and the frequency of writs. Now the character in question has not one single qualifying factor (other than 10 skill points into clothing at level 50), only full style books learned are the blue racials which DO NOT qualify for inclusion in the algorythm. There is not 1 single trait researched, not 1 single full purple (or gold) style book learned. Other characters that I have do indeed have more qualifying factors and yet struggle to get voucher values above 7, but on occasion do get higher. Also consider this another crafter of mine that has a few traits researched (and its probably 2-3 per item piece) and around 40% of qualifying styles learned still consistently receives master writs with a higher value than my main crafter which has far more qualifying points. Infact that one has received the highest value master writ I have ever had.

Now onto the point of rng, rng decides firstly whether you receive a master writ and then using criteria decides by rng what value writ to award.. There is NO qualifying criteria on the character that influences higher value writs,

ZOS has NEVER said that when getting a Master Crafting writ having a max crafter/max motif character the chances of getting a higher value writ would increase. They only said it would increase your chances of getting a MCW. Having said that, I’m still dubious of their claim. I have a max level character that has all motif’s learned in the game except two and still doesn’t receive MCW’s any more often than my other crafters who hardly know any motif’s. If there is an increase, it’s probably something like a 5% increase of 5% chance in getting one in the first place. Figure the math on that one

monktoasty

He has a point though. Yea his lesser crafter got lucky..but seemingly luckier than his way better crafter.

I honestly think zos is missing somwthing when it comes to rng and chances

newtinmpls

supaskrub wrote: »

Because its like this.. It is stated that the more motifs (ie full books only that you have learned) AND traits that you have researched on a particular character increases your chances of higher value master writs and the frequency of writs,

So....RNGjesus blessed you, and you are complaining....?

Feel free to send that unholy master writ to me.

Linaleah

from personal experience, system is incredibly broken. i have noticed that the more my master crafter learned, the fewer writs she got. nowadays, when i do get writs (which is not often) i mostly get them on alts that know only basic mofits and have zero research done.

my master crafter with everything but wormcult researched? essentially gets nothing. and Dragon bones patch hasn't changed that at all. i would chalk it up to my awful rng, except this seems to be prevailing experience of multiple creafters that I'm guilded with, across several guilds.

generalmyrick

supaskrub wrote: »

I have 14 characters, of which only 1 of these characters has 9 traits in all 3 major crafting skills and around 90% of all styles learned. This character gets master writs regularly of 5/6/7 vouchers with the occasional one in the 40's. Today I did my daily clothing on a character with no traits researched and only clothing at level 50 and only blue racial styles learned and this character gets a master clothing writ for 74 vouchers... yes 74 vouchers.. Discuss!

@ZOS_GinaBruno

holy ***, why am i trying so hard to max all my crafting lines?

Sevalaricgirl

Pfft the highest I've ever gotten was 21. Be thankful you got a writ for 74. It's RNG. It happens that you get lucky every now and then.

jaye63

Im sorry but I put in the year to get 9 traited, went thru all of the materials and gathered all of the recipes and materials - THAT was the time for MWs that gave 2-7 vouchers. It's insulting that I dont regularly get master writs that have 50+ voucher rewards. ESPECIALLY considering I spent real $$ on the cooldowns.

Your faux arguments against that are just you being trolls for fun to jerk people's chains. And on top of that, since I am capped in all 6 crafts and have all but 5 motifs complete, I should be getting AT LEAST 2 MWs a day not 1 or 2 every week or so. I've gone more than 2 weeks without seeing one drop. TOTAL BS.

EDIT: And the Recipes for food/drink and furniture... NEVER seen one better than green. Another BS situation. The RNG is TOTALLY F'd up.

Azurya

sorry to say it, but there is no algodings behind it, it is just RNG
and nothing more
sometimes I get 7 days nothing (doing it on a daily basis with 3 chars, 1 max crafter, 2 nonas)
and then I get mostly on the nonas, but also on mastercrafter on one day 4-5 writs total, and every now and then, 3 times amonth, you get something big, but I can´t see a rule that this is connected to the status of my char, will say it has nothing to do if it is a mastercrafter or just a bobo
and the rate is below zero

Saucy_Jack

Here let me help you:

https://amazon.com/Statistics-Third-David-Freedman/dp/0393970833

DeadlyRecluse

One outlier doth not an algorithm make.

Chilly-McFreeze

jaye63 wrote: »

Im sorry but I put in the year to get 9 traited, went thru all of the materials and gathered all of the recipes and materials - THAT was the time for MWs that gave 2-7 vouchers. It's insulting that I dont regularly get master writs that have 50+ voucher rewards. ESPECIALLY considering I spent real $$ on the cooldowns.

Your faux arguments against that are just you being trolls for fun to jerk people's chains. And on top of that, since I am capped in all 6 crafts and have all but 5 motifs complete, I should be getting AT LEAST 2 MWs a day not 1 or 2 every week or so. I've gone more than 2 weeks without seeing one drop. TOTAL BS.

EDIT: And the Recipes for food/drink and furniture... NEVER seen one better than green. Another BS situation. The RNG is TOTALLY F'd up.

So you're saying you prefer P2W?

Gorgoneus

Of course the drop chance is broken, do you really belive ZOS competent enough to create such difficult scheme as learned styles and unlocked achievements augments your chances to get MWV? THey even cant fix some old essential bugs like invisible team mates and lot of other stuff people complain here, but make a working machanic for wrints drop rate? With all new crafting achievement marked as drop reliable for this mechanic? Many MMOS hase a free formulas for different game mechanics people can see and calculate for their characters, but here we have only stat/dps formulas and nothing about vrit's drop, you know why? Because there is no formulas for it. Same rng as purple recipes and purple/gold furniture in treasure chests and containers I never saw.

Asardes

The only way to shore up against randomness is to throw big numbers at it. For example I'm doing ordinary writs on 10 characters every day - quite easy with addons - and I average roughly ~1.5K vouchers a month. 80-85% of those are contained in <100 voucher writs and a 35-40% in <10 alchemy and epic enchanting ones.

electromagnets

The only thing broken is the way you spelled algorithm.

electromagnets

jaye63 wrote: »

Im sorry but I put in the year to get 9 traited, went thru all of the materials and gathered all of the recipes and materials - THAT was the time for MWs that gave 2-7 vouchers. It's insulting that I dont regularly get master writs that have 50+ voucher rewards. ESPECIALLY considering I spent real $$ on the cooldowns.

Your faux arguments against that are just you being trolls for fun to jerk people's chains. And on top of that, since I am capped in all 6 crafts and have all but 5 motifs complete, I should be getting AT LEAST 2 MWs a day not 1 or 2 every week or so. I've gone more than 2 weeks without seeing one drop. TOTAL BS.

EDIT: And the Recipes for food/drink and furniture... NEVER seen one better than green. Another BS situation. The RNG is TOTALLY F'd up.

Sounds like maybe putting in a year to manage your expectations could help. This is Zos we’re talking about afterall...

Cavedog

danno8 wrote: »

Cavedog wrote: »

I highly doubt that the number of styles or traits a character knows plays a role. It's only your level of crafting in that skill line that makes a difference. If you are max level in that skill line, your master writ drop rate is maxed. ...then it's all rng after that, and we all know what rng is like in this game.

No, when the writ system was release a ZoS employee posted that motif knowledge raised your chances of getting a clothing/blacksmith/woodworker writ, as did purple food/drink recipe for provisioning.

You should find that post and read it more carefully.

Feric51

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

NEW FEATURES / UPDATES / BIG CHANGES

Master Crafting Writs
Maximum-tier Writ reward boxes for all tradeskills now have a chance to provide a special invitation to craft a very specific item or set of items.
These invitations may require any materials or knowledge associated with the tradeskill, even if you don’t yet possess it.
These invitations are tradeable, consumable, and indicate the number of Writ Vouchers awarded upon successful completion of the contract.
The frequency of Master Writ invites from standard Writ boxes is based on the overall associated tradeskill mastery possessed by the character.
This includes research, Motif knowledge, and achievement completion.

^^^ From Homestead patch notes....


Who can do Master Writs?

Not just anyone! Master Writs are meant specifically for masters – they require specific sets, or specific crafting styles, that not everyone has access to. Further, Master Writs are only awarded to players completing the hardest normal crafting Writs, and are more common when you have a lot of dedication. For example, Blacksmithing, Woodworking, and Clothier Master Writs are more common if you've done a lot of difficult research; Provisioning Master Writs are more common when you've learned a lot of difficult recipes; Enchanting Master Writs are more common when you've translated a lot of runes; and Alchemy Master Writs are more common when you've fully identified a lot of herbs. The more you've done in that tradeskill, the better your odds on each normal Writ you complete.

^^^ From Homestead Guide: Master Writs blog article


Edits for clarification.