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Shimmering shield vs Dragon Scales, simple compare after reading pattchnotes where i was hoping...

  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
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    Lol, I never did know that wings were better than shimmering. I mean, a skill that basically refunds a lot of its costs and generates ults is way worse than skill that never refunds its cost and with 0 ult gen. Yeah... wings are definitely better. /sarcasm
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  • RinaldoGandolphi
    RinaldoGandolphi
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    Maybe change Shimmering Shield to give 3 secs of Major Heroism per cast putting it in line with the DK Mountain Blessing passive (6 ultimate every 6 secs) the shield itself however is just a lesser version of Harness Magic that only works against projectiles

    The Crystalized Slab morph needs a buff if anything
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    Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)

    "Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak

  • BohnT
    BohnT
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    Maybe change Shimmering Shield to give 3 secs of Major Heroism per cast putting it in line with the DK Mountain Blessing passive (6 ultimate every 6 secs) the shield itself however is just a lesser version of Harness Magic that only works against projectiles

    The Crystalized Slab morph needs a buff if anything

    Mountain Blessing gives you 3 ult every 6 seconds.
    Also DK has its sustain build around ultimatea while it's only nice to have for warden. Still warden have much better ulti gain than any other classes
  • techprince
    techprince
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    Maybe change Shimmering Shield to give 3 secs of Major Heroism per cast putting it in line with the DK Mountain Blessing passive (6 ultimate every 6 secs) the shield itself however is just a lesser version of Harness Magic that only works against projectiles

    The Crystalized Slab morph needs a buff if anything

    That passive doesnt apply to wings. Wings is a Draconic Power ability where as the passive applies to Earthen Heart abilities.

    Increase the cost of the base skill, move the magicka return from base skills and its morphs to shimmering shield and remove the ult gain. This ability is overloaded and everyone knows it.
    Edited by techprince on February 1, 2018 11:42AM
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    How about:

    You only get the major heroism buff if all 3 shields are removed by absorbing projectiles?
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  • BohnT
    BohnT
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    How about:

    You only get the major heroism buff if all 3 shields are removed by absorbing projectiles?

    No the major heroism has to go, everyone who fights warden with a ranged build removes the shields easily and buff is simply too strong to be available on a 100% range negate ability or any other ability for that matter
  • RinaldoGandolphi
    RinaldoGandolphi
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    techprince wrote: »
    Maybe change Shimmering Shield to give 3 secs of Major Heroism per cast putting it in line with the DK Mountain Blessing passive (6 ultimate every 6 secs) the shield itself however is just a lesser version of Harness Magic that only works against projectiles

    The Crystalized Slab morph needs a buff if anything

    That passive doesnt apply to wings. Wings is a Draconic Power ability where as the passive applies to Earthen Heart abilities.

    Increase the cost of the base skill, move the magicka return from base skills and its morphs to shimmering shield and remove the ult gain. This ability is overloaded and everyone knows it.

    The only part of the skill that needs adjusted is the duration of Major Heroism or changing Major Heroism to a flat value(like say 2-3 ultimate on cast once every 6 seconds)

    Harness Magicka is better then Shimmering Shield in every single possible way except the Major Heroism. Harness absorbs melee damage, returns more resources, protects against more damage types(like DOTS)

    It’s Major Heroism that’s the issue not it’s resoure return.

    Harness Magicka is literally FREE the majority of the time it’s used, Shimmering atleast can’t be totally free like Harness can.
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    Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)

    "Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak

  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    BohnT wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    How about:

    You only get the major heroism buff if all 3 shields are removed by absorbing projectiles?

    No the major heroism has to go, everyone who fights warden with a ranged build removes the shields easily and buff is simply too strong to be available on a 100% range negate ability or any other ability for that matter

    I kind of agree, the ability already provides better protection than wings, on a high damage build shimmering shield provides extreme survivability with just 1 button, and refunds the cost for just doing its job. warden is already a very mobile class, thanks to bird of prey, giving them easy major expedition, with minor berserk/major endurance as a bonus. So this class really doesn't need shimmering shields to survive in the first place, it can LOS for hours without that.


    Wings on the other hand is a massive magicka dumb and there is no way to use it on a stam build without making heavy sacrifices on your build.(which on the best possible way means dropping bone pirate for something like shacklebreaker, losing massive amount of regen and stamina, just so that I can use wings 1 or 2 times when I need it.)
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on February 1, 2018 12:41PM
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    How about:

    You only get the major heroism buff if all 3 shields are removed by absorbing projectiles?

    Tbh - i´d give them 6s of major heroism regardless if they´re in combat but remove the cost return + slightly increase the cost.

    The issue i have with the skill is the low cost + it being situationally better than harness magica in terms of total dmg absorbed. Major heroism is a core class mechanism of wardens and should stay imo.
    If it all that should also be made available in pve.
    Edited by Derra on February 1, 2018 12:30PM
    Every comment is from a pvp pov unless stated otherwise.

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  • ATomiX96
    ATomiX96
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    difference is that magdk wings reflect and magwarden shimmering shield "only" absorb, so the cost of magdk wings is justified imo
    PC-EU 1k+ CP
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  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    ATomiX96 wrote: »
    difference is that magdk wings reflect and magwarden shimmering shield "only" absorb, so the cost of magdk wings is justified imo

    And the issue is stamdens being able to use shimmering shields for free, meanwhile stamDks eating all that ranged burst to the face.
    and even if you somehow use wings on a stamDK, shimmering still works on more stuff.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on February 1, 2018 12:52PM
  • Bakkagami
    Bakkagami
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    diplomatt wrote: »
    to see a Real balance changes...

    Shimmering shield cost 2432 mag on my stam warden (bosmer)) in heavy or medium, return mana from projectiles (astronomic number 18216 of damage from projectile absorbed...and 578 mag from every projectile), it gives Major heroism for 6 seconds each time without coldown...So u need only 698 (2432-578*3) magicka to cast it...698 mana cost hell...

    And, for example we have Dragon scales on dk, the can reflect 4 projectiles...but not force pulce or warden's dive...give u while active +12% of healing recieved from passive and nothing else...cost on stamina dk is 3780 mana...

    @ZOS_Wrobel , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Dk's Dragon scales are 5,4 times more expencive than Warden's Shimmering Shield, which in addition saves from no matter how big projectiles and gives u Unique extremly usefull buff... What the hell is going on? Do u really think that Dive is only thing need to be fixed...Really?

    man, people complain about everything on dk nowadays. Wings is fine, doesn't need a cost increase as its already a very strong skill. warden shield doesn't stop any secondary effects from projectiles (dots, cc's etc) while dk wings does. It also reflects the projectile back at an increased potency making it extremely useful offensively as well as defensively. The only thing wings needs is a better secondary morph. having 3 skill morph options in dks toolkit that give minor resistance bonii is pretty useless.
  • Kilandros
    Kilandros
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    Bakkagami wrote: »
    diplomatt wrote: »
    to see a Real balance changes...

    Shimmering shield cost 2432 mag on my stam warden (bosmer)) in heavy or medium, return mana from projectiles (astronomic number 18216 of damage from projectile absorbed...and 578 mag from every projectile), it gives Major heroism for 6 seconds each time without coldown...So u need only 698 (2432-578*3) magicka to cast it...698 mana cost hell...

    And, for example we have Dragon scales on dk, the can reflect 4 projectiles...but not force pulce or warden's dive...give u while active +12% of healing recieved from passive and nothing else...cost on stamina dk is 3780 mana...

    @ZOS_Wrobel , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Dk's Dragon scales are 5,4 times more expencive than Warden's Shimmering Shield, which in addition saves from no matter how big projectiles and gives u Unique extremly usefull buff... What the hell is going on? Do u really think that Dive is only thing need to be fixed...Really?

    man, people complain about everything on dk nowadays. Wings is fine, doesn't need a cost increase as its already a very strong skill. warden shield doesn't stop any secondary effects from projectiles (dots, cc's etc) while dk wings does. It also reflects the projectile back at an increased potency making it extremely useful offensively as well as defensively. The only thing wings needs is a better secondary morph. having 3 skill morph options in dks toolkit that give minor resistance bonii is pretty useless.

    Unfortunately you're wrong and wings doesn't stop secondary effects like Major Defile and DoTs. Also, wings is bugged and reflected projectiles seem to be reduced both by the DKs resistances and CP and then new target's resistances and CP--it's not uncommon to see a reflected Snipe returned to a medium armor stealthblade for a measly 4k crit.
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  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    I’d suggest reworking Shimmering Shield to a mechanic similar to the absorb magic skill in the S&B skill line. Lower the absorbed damage for each shield to 4K, grant a heal for 8% of max health, and leave major heroism as buff for 4 seconds. That way it’s not possible to completely shut down a ranged burst while maintaining the uniqueness.
    Edited by Feanor on February 1, 2018 1:09PM
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  • Anethum
    Anethum
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    How about:

    You only get the major heroism buff if all 3 shields are removed by absorbing projectiles?

    ~ but its really not enouch, every range build ruins 3 shields much faster than 6 seconds.
    It's like to make Spctral bow from mersiless resolve activation on 3 light attacks instead 5, too easy to activate.
    But at least after all 3 shields (and much more expencive cost of the skill), it will make range classes when fight ws warden to try keep 3d shield on warden to expire with time to not activate this buff.
    698 mana cost of this skill should very much inscrease

    But Many skills on wardens, templars, sorcs, nb, dk should be anjusted, I've created this thread to show how unbalanced are classes. Its example... I want Zenimax care about this all, not about 1 single skill.
    Buffs, sustain, damage, passives.
    Stam dks are in the completly ass, wardens on the other hand without dive feels same cool as with, templars also because of magic wand Purify everything from themselves. Including overpowered Cost(drain/damage magicka/stamina) poisons, that makes this skill even more unbalanced in compare with other classes.
    Sorcs mage's wraith proc + implosion proc is insane cheat.
    Wardens shimmering no cost immulity to projectiles with major heroizm uncluded, aoe defiling heal, burst heal on both stamina and magicka, aoe minor maim and immobilize over time etc etc
    Every class should work to win in fight. Different skills, rotations, buffs, balanced.
    Any lazy 1 skills spam.
    And hell, we should not to wait changes years.
    We see a problem - fix it 1 week, 1 month at least.

    @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_GinaBruno People left eso because of no hope. Ask Fengrush, Sypherpk, KIng RIchard etc streamers. U fix problems too slow or don't fix at all, but add crown store cosmetics instead every week. Change your priorities at least. I beleve u can, it's potentially so great game.
    Edited by Anethum on February 1, 2018 1:34PM
    @Anethum from .ua
  • Bakkagami
    Bakkagami
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    Kilandros wrote: »
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    diplomatt wrote: »
    to see a Real balance changes...

    Shimmering shield cost 2432 mag on my stam warden (bosmer)) in heavy or medium, return mana from projectiles (astronomic number 18216 of damage from projectile absorbed...and 578 mag from every projectile), it gives Major heroism for 6 seconds each time without coldown...So u need only 698 (2432-578*3) magicka to cast it...698 mana cost hell...

    And, for example we have Dragon scales on dk, the can reflect 4 projectiles...but not force pulce or warden's dive...give u while active +12% of healing recieved from passive and nothing else...cost on stamina dk is 3780 mana...

    @ZOS_Wrobel , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Dk's Dragon scales are 5,4 times more expencive than Warden's Shimmering Shield, which in addition saves from no matter how big projectiles and gives u Unique extremly usefull buff... What the hell is going on? Do u really think that Dive is only thing need to be fixed...Really?

    man, people complain about everything on dk nowadays. Wings is fine, doesn't need a cost increase as its already a very strong skill. warden shield doesn't stop any secondary effects from projectiles (dots, cc's etc) while dk wings does. It also reflects the projectile back at an increased potency making it extremely useful offensively as well as defensively. The only thing wings needs is a better secondary morph. having 3 skill morph options in dks toolkit that give minor resistance bonii is pretty useless.

    Unfortunately you're wrong and wings doesn't stop secondary effects like Major Defile and DoTs. Also, wings is bugged and reflected projectiles seem to be reduced both by the DKs resistances and CP and then new target's resistances and CP--it's not uncommon to see a reflected Snipe returned to a medium armor stealthblade for a measly 4k crit.

    Now i need to go back and test this on live, cause u just made me paranoid, but i'm almost 100% sure that wings will stop dots in particular. poison inject, vamp bane etc are pretty reliably reflected and i don't get the dot, as well as the defile from snipe. I know wings has been bugged recently to where it wouldn't refresh causing the hit to actually go through it but i'm speaking on the assumption that that issue is fixed.
  • Bakkagami
    Bakkagami
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    Kilandros wrote: »
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    diplomatt wrote: »
    to see a Real balance changes...

    Shimmering shield cost 2432 mag on my stam warden (bosmer)) in heavy or medium, return mana from projectiles (astronomic number 18216 of damage from projectile absorbed...and 578 mag from every projectile), it gives Major heroism for 6 seconds each time without coldown...So u need only 698 (2432-578*3) magicka to cast it...698 mana cost hell...

    And, for example we have Dragon scales on dk, the can reflect 4 projectiles...but not force pulce or warden's dive...give u while active +12% of healing recieved from passive and nothing else...cost on stamina dk is 3780 mana...

    @ZOS_Wrobel , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Dk's Dragon scales are 5,4 times more expencive than Warden's Shimmering Shield, which in addition saves from no matter how big projectiles and gives u Unique extremly usefull buff... What the hell is going on? Do u really think that Dive is only thing need to be fixed...Really?

    man, people complain about everything on dk nowadays. Wings is fine, doesn't need a cost increase as its already a very strong skill. warden shield doesn't stop any secondary effects from projectiles (dots, cc's etc) while dk wings does. It also reflects the projectile back at an increased potency making it extremely useful offensively as well as defensively. The only thing wings needs is a better secondary morph. having 3 skill morph options in dks toolkit that give minor resistance bonii is pretty useless.

    Unfortunately you're wrong and wings doesn't stop secondary effects like Major Defile and DoTs. Also, wings is bugged and reflected projectiles seem to be reduced both by the DKs resistances and CP and then new target's resistances and CP--it's not uncommon to see a reflected Snipe returned to a medium armor stealthblade for a measly 4k crit.

    I've also been meaning to test out the snipe reflects sometime myself but some stamblades just have no damage, i've seen snipes return and nearly one shot a stamblade and i've seen them return and do a disappointing 2k damage. Usually the ones that return little damage will end up hitting for ~1-2k if i do let one get through. I haven't tested it in a controlled setting though so you may very well be onto something there.
  • Anethum
    Anethum
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    Bakkagami wrote: »
    Now i need to go back and test this on live, cause u just made me paranoid, but i'm almost 100% sure that wings will stop dots in particular. poison inject, vamp bane etc are pretty reliably reflected and i don't get the dot, as well as the defile from snipe. I know wings has been bugged recently to where it wouldn't refresh causing the hit to actually go through it but i'm speaking on the assumption that that issue is fixed.


    They don't stop dots at all.
    But second effects from lethal arrow yes. same as dark flare. or spectral bow. because it's direct damage projectiles
    Edited by Anethum on February 1, 2018 1:40PM
    @Anethum from .ua
  • Bakkagami
    Bakkagami
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    diplomatt wrote: »
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    Now i need to go back and test this on live, cause u just made me paranoid, but i'm almost 100% sure that wings will stop dots in particular. poison inject, vamp bane etc are pretty reliably reflected and i don't get the dot, as well as the defile from snipe. I know wings has been bugged recently to where it wouldn't refresh causing the hit to actually go through it but i'm speaking on the assumption that that issue is fixed.


    They don't stop dots at all.
    But second effects from lethal arrow yes. same as dark flare. or spectral bow. because it's direct damage projectiles

    To clarify, by dots i mean projectiles that have a direct damage component and then apply a dot such as poison inject, but i'm going to double check on live sometime today and i'll get back on that.
  • Anethum
    Anethum
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    Bakkagami wrote: »
    To clarify, by dots i mean projectiles that have a direct damage component and then apply a dot such as poison inject, but i'm going to double check on live sometime today and i'll get back on that.

    It doesn't reflect dots and secondary effects from them. only direct damage projectiles.
    with active scales u take into face poison injection's and similar skill's dots and debuffs.
    Scales reflect really small amount of damage from projectiles, that's why so inadequate to make them cost 3780 mana in compare with Shimmering shield for 698 mana on staminawarden.
    Edited by Anethum on February 1, 2018 2:28PM
    @Anethum from .ua
  • Bakkagami
    Bakkagami
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    Bakkagami wrote: »
    diplomatt wrote: »
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    Now i need to go back and test this on live, cause u just made me paranoid, but i'm almost 100% sure that wings will stop dots in particular. poison inject, vamp bane etc are pretty reliably reflected and i don't get the dot, as well as the defile from snipe. I know wings has been bugged recently to where it wouldn't refresh causing the hit to actually go through it but i'm speaking on the assumption that that issue is fixed.


    They don't stop dots at all.
    But second effects from lethal arrow yes. same as dark flare. or spectral bow. because it's direct damage projectiles

    To clarify, by dots i mean projectiles that have a direct damage component and then apply a dot such as poison inject, but i'm going to double check on live sometime today and i'll get back on that.

    just did some testing and yea, wings definitely reflects poison inject, vamps bane and the like. (basically any projectile). the dot will get reflected to the caster as well as the initial hit. whether its bugged on pts is another thing altogether but that's how it has been and still does work on live.
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    diplomatt wrote: »
    to see a Real balance changes...

    Shimmering shield cost 2432 mag on my stam warden (bosmer)) in heavy or medium, return mana from projectiles (astronomic number 18216 of damage from projectile absorbed...and 578 mag from every projectile), it gives Major heroism for 6 seconds each time without coldown...So u need only 698 (2432-578*3) magicka to cast it...698 mana cost hell...

    And, for example we have Dragon scales on dk, the can reflect 4 projectiles...but not force pulce or warden's dive...give u while active +12% of healing recieved from passive and nothing else...cost on stamina dk is 3780 mana...

    @ZOS_Wrobel , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Dk's Dragon scales are 5,4 times more expencive than Warden's Shimmering Shield, which in addition saves from no matter how big projectiles and gives u Unique extremly usefull buff... What the hell is going on? Do u really think that Dive is only thing need to be fixed...Really?

    Let’s see...
    Shimmering has a Damage cap, Wings do NOT have any damage cap That astronomical number is across all 3, by the way it scales with health, it’s a lot more then 18000 on my tank.
    Shimmering gives you mag WHEN a shield is broken. No broken shield, no returned magic. Play smarter not harder.
    Major Herisom last 6 sec, brake one every 6 seconds and it’s an 18 second buff. Break them all at once and it’s 6 Seconds.
    Harness Magicka cost 1000 magic more and returns 1500 magic more and works against everything. It’s a way better skill then Shimmering.
    Wings returns 35% more damage to the attacker (or 23 second resistance buff,) Other morph of Shimmering returns flat amount, and Shimmering returns nothing at all. So wings gets people to back off. Shimmering means people have to be smart enough to back off on their own when it’s up.

    The only place where Shimmering might be an issue is Stamden, but it’s also really the only defense they have. Forest ulti, once, but then you’re dead. Otherwise the Warden is a lot like NB with plenty of trickle in heals, but no burst, and no cloak.

    That is some amazing cognitive dissonance. When ever can you not get hit at least once whilst 1vxing. Ever.

    Correct me if I am wrong. But the max uptime per single cast on the major heroism is 12s, so its not like you even need all 3 to hit. Its BY FAR the strongest defense in the game.

    If you think wings are better. Play the all mighty DK. Have a 3.5k ability fall off to some light attacks that would have hit for 700 dmg within 1s of casting it.

    Its 6s per break, with 3 Shields so 18s if you broke a shield every 6s.
    How could you not get it ever when 1vXing when it only works against projectiles?
    Those same light attacks break Shimmering.
    Harness Magicka cost 1000 magic more and returns 1500 magic more and works againts every kind of damage. In terms of defense its far, far better.
    I play 3 different Wardens, I only found it worth running on 1 and only for the heroism so I could Permafrost counter bomb, bomb builds. Its also the first skill to go if I need another skill (like siege shield)
    My first 2 charaters where DKS a year ago, they didn't make it past 15, thats what I think of DKs. But the topic isn't DK vs Warden. I don't think wings are better, I think there's a whole lot of QQ that goes on when people can't fight a build.
    Think about this, Shimmering Sheild is completely useless against: mDk, sDK, sSorc, stamplar, melee magplar. It's only usefull againts the bow from Stamblade. It sounds to me like its a lot of mag Sore or a lot of snipe spanning zergings.
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #Nerfmire
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    pieratsos wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    diplomatt wrote: »
    to see a Real balance changes...

    Shimmering shield cost 2432 mag on my stam warden (bosmer)) in heavy or medium, return mana from projectiles (astronomic number 18216 of damage from projectile absorbed...and 578 mag from every projectile), it gives Major heroism for 6 seconds each time without coldown...So u need only 698 (2432-578*3) magicka to cast it...698 mana cost hell...

    And, for example we have Dragon scales on dk, the can reflect 4 projectiles...but not force pulce or warden's dive...give u while active +12% of healing recieved from passive and nothing else...cost on stamina dk is 3780 mana...

    @ZOS_Wrobel , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Dk's Dragon scales are 5,4 times more expencive than Warden's Shimmering Shield, which in addition saves from no matter how big projectiles and gives u Unique extremly usefull buff... What the hell is going on? Do u really think that Dive is only thing need to be fixed...Really?

    Let’s see...
    Shimmering has a Damage cap, Wings do NOT have any damage cap That astronomical number is across all 3, by the way it scales with health, it’s a lot more then 18000 on my tank.
    Shimmering gives you mag WHEN a shield is broken. No broken shield, no returned magic. Play smarter not harder.
    Major Herisom last 6 sec, brake one every 6 seconds and it’s an 18 second buff. Break them all at once and it’s 6 Seconds.
    Harness Magicka cost 1000 magic more and returns 1500 magic more and works against everything. It’s a way better skill then Shimmering.
    Wings returns 35% more damage to the attacker (or 23 second resistance buff,) Other morph of Shimmering returns flat amount, and Shimmering returns nothing at all. So wings gets people to back off. Shimmering means people have to be smart enough to back off on their own when it’s up.

    The only place where Shimmering might be an issue is Stamden, but it’s also really the only defense they have. Forest ulti, once, but then you’re dead. Otherwise the Warden is a lot like NB with plenty of trickle in heals, but no burst, and no cloak.

    Yes shimmering is obviously balanced if you never attack the warden.

    Same as wings, DoTs and melee attacks, and unlike Harness, those will all hit full force instead of against a Damage Shield.
    krathos wrote: »

    This has to be a troll post. Shimmering is hands down the single strongest defensive skill in the entire game.

    I run a tank in Cryodiil, I occasionally slot it, buts it’s really a crap skill. Living Vines and Arctic Wind are both way more defensive. Shimmering requires constant recasting under pressure meaning you can’t turn the battle back against them. Corruption Pollon is also amazing for turning the tide back again. All Shimmering is good for is ulti gen, you’re wasting time and resources if you’re casting it more often then 6 seconds after the last shield breaks. I usually have something like Siege Shield slotted instead.

    Wings are not the same thing. Not even close. Secondary effects go through wings, there are abilities that can be absorbed but cant be reflected and wings have a very high cost.

    Shimmering is not even close. You can spam it even on a stamina warden, it shuts down ranged builds much easier than wings cause of the way absorb works and even in the worst case scenario where u absorb like a couple of light attacks, you still get the arguably best buff in the entire game. Spamming it literally helps your sustain. Thats beyond idiotic.

    Im sorry but calling such a skill crap means you are either running in a huge zerg or you simply dont understand PVP. Ive been in fights i never even thought i could possibly win/survive and i shouldnt win/survive but still came on top just by spamming shimmering. Literally, just spamming it. Spamming that skill means you are not dying, you are not running out of resources and you are building up ult like nuts which can most certainly turn the fight around. I cant even fathom how you even say that major heroism cant turn the fights. The game right now revolves around ults. Even the worst class in the game can perform good with good ult regen. Warden ult regen sometimes feels like emp ult regen.

    You are making ridiculously absurd statements and trying to present one of the best skills in the game if not the best as crap.

    I play solo and on consol, Major Heroism is the ONLY reason to run it. Absorb is defensive, reflect a offensive, as far as absorbs go its so, so, Harness is far better, Defensive Posture is closer to even with. But forcing your opponent to go on the defensive, or for better, never needing to go on the defensive yourself is far far better. Thats what DK and Sorcs have, their heals and defense come from continuing to stay on the offensive. Thats why reflect is a far better skill
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #Nerfmire
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Bakkagami
    Bakkagami
    ✭✭✭
    diplomatt wrote: »
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    To clarify, by dots i mean projectiles that have a direct damage component and then apply a dot such as poison inject, but i'm going to double check on live sometime today and i'll get back on that.

    It doesn't reflect dots and secondary effects from them. only direct damage projectiles.
    with active scales u take into face poison injection's and similar skill's dots and debuffs.
    Scales reflect really small amount of damage from projectiles, that's why so inadequate to make them cost 3780 mana in compare with Shimmering shield for 698 mana on staminawarden.

    At this point i have to question whether you know what you're talking about. Wings is a better defensive option to shimmering shield and a better offensive option unless ur build relies on ulti gen. It definitely reflects back ANY projectile but wardens bird, including but not limited to, poison inject and vamps bane, hidden blade, and even that nbs cripple dot/root.

    Shimmering / absorb magicka technically doesn't reflect but absorbs damage which is why the dots/ secondary effects from those will not be negated. Wings are well worth the cost on dk, the only "reflect" that out outperforms wings on both a offensive and defensive side is total dark and that's if they don't cc break it.

    Also, Dragon fire scales reflects damage for 125% of what it would hit you for, meaning a la won't hit hard but reflecting a snipe or merciless can easily turn a fight around. You may have that confuse with volatile armor or wardens crystalline shield which will both reflect a flat amount of damage regardless of the attack that hits.
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    diplomatt wrote: »
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    To clarify, by dots i mean projectiles that have a direct damage component and then apply a dot such as poison inject, but i'm going to double check on live sometime today and i'll get back on that.

    It doesn't reflect dots and secondary effects from them. only direct damage projectiles.
    with active scales u take into face poison injection's and similar skill's dots and debuffs.
    Scales reflect really small amount of damage from projectiles, that's why so inadequate to make them cost 3780 mana in compare with Shimmering shield for 698 mana on staminawarden.

    At this point i have to question whether you know what you're talking about. Wings is a better defensive option to shimmering shield and a better offensive option unless ur build relies on ulti gen. It definitely reflects back ANY projectile but wardens bird, including but not limited to, poison inject and vamps bane, hidden blade, and even that nbs cripple dot/root.

    Shimmering / absorb magicka technically doesn't reflect but absorbs damage which is why the dots/ secondary effects from those will not be negated. Wings are well worth the cost on dk, the only "reflect" that out outperforms wings on both a offensive and defensive side is total dark and that's if they don't cc break it.

    Also, Dragon fire scales reflects damage for 125% of what it would hit you for, meaning a la won't hit hard but reflecting a snipe or merciless can easily turn a fight around. You may have that confuse with volatile armor or wardens crystalline shield which will both reflect a flat amount of damage regardless of the attack that hits.
    135%
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #Nerfmire
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Anethum
    Anethum
    ✭✭✭✭
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    At this point i have to question whether you know what you're talking about. Wings is a better defensive option to shimmering shield and a better offensive option unless ur build relies on ulti gen. It definitely reflects back ANY projectile but wardens bird, including but not limited to, poison inject and vamps bane, hidden blade, and even that nbs cripple dot/root.
    .

    It doesn't reflect:
    1. birds (why unreflectable, at least bird coming from the sky, let it reflect back to the sky at least instead of caster, but reflect)
    2. force pulse (why? hell knows, they just did it)
    3. hidden blade (why? hell knows, they just did it) UPD its reflects and snare caster after reflect - tested few minuts ago
    4. every dot (UPD without direct component) and ofc aoe as it should be

    reflected projectile is 35% stronger. that is good but good players beautifully damage dk without direct damage projectiles, or with force pulse spam for example. or expire it with light atacks then cc and direct damage. unreliable

    Shimmering eats every projectile...
    And cost 698 magicka...
    But Scale cost is 3780 and doesn't give dk any even minor buffs.
    Do u feel the difference?
    Edited by Anethum on February 1, 2018 9:27PM
    @Anethum from .ua
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    ✭✭✭
    Lmao these people actually saying wings is better than shimmering shield :D
  • Bakkagami
    Bakkagami
    ✭✭✭
    diplomatt wrote: »
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    At this point i have to question whether you know what you're talking about. Wings is a better defensive option to shimmering shield and a better offensive option unless ur build relies on ulti gen. It definitely reflects back ANY projectile but wardens bird, including but not limited to, poison inject and vamps bane, hidden blade, and even that nbs cripple dot/root.
    .

    It doesn't reflect:
    1. birds (why unreflectable, at least bird coming from the sky, let it reflect back to the sky at least instead of caster, but reflect)
    2. force pulse (why? hell knows, they just did it)
    3. hidden blade (why? hell knows, they just did it)
    4. every dots and ofc aoe as it should be

    reflected projectile is 35% stronger. that is good but good players beautifully damage dk without direct damage projectiles, or with force pulse spam for example. or expire it with light atacks then cc and direct damage. unreliable

    Shimmering eats every projectile...
    And cost 698 magicka...
    But Scale cost is 3780 and doesn't give dk any even minor buffs.
    Do u feel the difference?

    birds, of course, its a bird... force pulse is considered a beam, they said beam attacks couldn't be reflected ( a la jesus beam), primarly because dks were such as strong counter to sorcs and magblades back in the day they had to give them at least an option to go through a reflect. (previously sorcs only had curse/execute that could go through wings, and magblades had absolutely nothing). Idk about hidden blade. i didn't see that in any patch notes but you just named 2 skills out of all the projectiles in game... both of which were specifically made to go against the norm, of course it won't reflect any dot, shimmering won't reflect a dot either. Shimmering also won't reflect the dot from poison inject, or any secondary effects from projectiles whereas wings will. If u want a minor buff run the other morph of wings, you do have the option. You can't argue that shimmering is a better reflect than wings, it's just not the case. It's essentially just a harness with a 4 hit limit and an ult buff added to make up the difference
    Edited by Bakkagami on February 1, 2018 7:22PM
  • Cries
    Cries
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lmao these people actually saying wings is better than shimmering shield :D

    Welcome to the forums, where people spew bulls#@! to not have their cheese taken away.
    PC NA
    Characters:
    Tımë Ðâzzlër - Stamina Warden - AD
    Tımë Ðâzzłër - Stamina Nightblade - AD
    Sugar Deady - Magicka Necromancer - AD
    Sprint v X - Stamina Sorcerer - EP
    Tımë Ðâzzlër Ðk - Stamina Dragonknight - EP
    Time Dazzler - Magicka Warden - DC
  • Bakkagami
    Bakkagami
    ✭✭✭
    Cries wrote: »
    Lmao these people actually saying wings is better than shimmering shield :D

    Welcome to the forums, where people spew bulls#@! to not have their cheese taken away.

    lol, I main a dk, not defengin my "cheese'. Wings is definitely more useful, primarily because its so easy to use offensively and can easily turn pressure around.
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