killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »It's funny you say this when nbs, in all it's forms, are currently hands down the strongest class. By quite a lot.killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »THIS is DESTROYING OBLITERATING RUINING *** UP or however you wanna pronounce it a class. Remove NB and stealth, or do something about it Zeni (but you didnt give a *** for years so why now. I bet you devs use Miats as well)Here's something I mentioned in the other thread before it was closed.. It's how this particular addon brings up a wider question about whether addons should exist at all.
In essence this as all about a question of whether this addon provides an unfair advantage. Don't most addons do this?
Are they going to comment on individual addons which the community have raised as a possible issue? Well, I think we all know the answer to that!
Are they going to change their API's to stop various functions in their API's - well we've seen some evidence of that. If this is the only route that ZoS takes to communicate if an addon is ok or not - then must we assume that 'If it's possible, its ok'
Are they doing nothing? Hmm.. tough one.. Are they doing nothing because they are unaware? or don't care? or won't change their API because they think its acceptable? or can't change their API without it breaking something important? or just don't want to fund/prioritise what could be an expensive change? Who knows.
The only think we do know is that ZOS's COMMUNICATION SUCKS ON THIS ISSUE WHICH IS TEARING THE COMMUNITY APART
Its not really the answer any of us are looking for...
I think its time to clear up a bit what I meant; ranged stealth attacks. Not melee. Because mr. Miats wanted it that way. He hates ranged attacks from stealth and has on several occations explained his intentions was to eliminate it.Melee attacks, on the other hand, now THOSE are FINE, because he LIKES that playstyle....think about that for a second...Eliminate ranged attacks threat to himself. Thats kind of scary. One man nullifies Zenis intentions when they made class and ability mechanics. scissor/paper/stone. He decided scissior was op, cause hes paper, so solution; remove scissor from the game.
Lol. It’s starting to strike me that this Miat individual is like a fictional character named Zamasu. Zamasu did not like the way that humans were, so he went on ahead and decided to himself that he would eliminate any and all potential threats to him via annihilating the human race. Dude did this in multiple universes, after deciding it upon himself that humans do not deserve the right to exist. Completing ignoring the fact that it was Zen-oh who had created these universes. And ultimately has the last word on what does and does not exist in all planes of space and time. Plus everything in between.
Now let’s draw our connections, shall me? Miat doesn’t like ranged attacks or gankers. They decide 1 day that they will completely nullify ranged builds that are stealth oriented. Why? Because they simply don’t feel that the given play style deserves to exist anymore. So, he alone decides he will change PvP forever with his add-on, and does. Lol. Completely ignoring the fact it is not up to him whether or not a certain play style should be relative. But ZOS.
Hmm... I wonder now if and when Miat gets taken away (as it probably will), we will see a new type of add-on that completely renders another build and play style useless. Lol. Like a Miat’s 2.0. If so, can whoever is designing it name it “Zamasu’s Add-On”? That would be pretty dope.
You should go back in time reading up on how he defends himself. How he calmly and logically tries to convince the rest why ranged attacks should not be allowed within the game, and how he, the great and mighty one, did what Zenimax could not do due to their incompetence. He even demads reward and praise for his balance changes...He has a huge god complex, he believes he is innfailable and he believes he is entitled to dictate the way pvp should be according to his own rules. If he tried something like this in real life (maybe he has, for all I know), it would be something like this; I want a burger, burgers cost money, I dont have money, so I make money obsolete. From now on all must use sea shells as currency, as I live on a beach and it makes me rich..."
Yeah, I know about the moving forward thing:-) Maybe I should try that with a major expedition source...?
honestly never tried it with hardcasting frags - will give it a go - its good to know this stuff, but I suspect the better overload combo is gonna be wrath/curse/empower, rune-prison, overload (but I'd need to test that more too). Its a proper glass-cannon setup that though. it crumbles while under pressure while on the overload bar.
I honestly think the rune-prison change and some of the more recent undodgeables have come as a result of Miat's ie. I kind of suspect that ZoS may actually be balancing with Miat's in mind.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
Better late than never Gina. Sounds like the right steps to take.
You guys are like that friend that shows up to the party five hours late but brings two 30 racks and a handle. Always glad to see you chime in! Wish we could hear from you sooner!
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
Thank you for bringing some light to this, albeit vague once more on something that requires serious clarification.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
Better late than never Gina. Sounds like the right steps to take.
You guys are like that friend that shows up to the party five hours late but brings two 30 racks and a handle. Always glad to see you chime in! Wish we could hear from you sooner!
10 months late to the party, more like.
The addon has done it's damage, but hopefully most of the problems can be eliminated soon.
"No ETA", though.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
Thank you for bringing some light to this, albeit vague once more on something that requires serious clarification.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
Better late than never Gina. Sounds like the right steps to take.
You guys are like that friend that shows up to the party five hours late but brings two 30 racks and a handle. Always glad to see you chime in! Wish we could hear from you sooner!
10 months late to the party, more like.
The addon has done it's damage, but hopefully most of the problems can be eliminated soon.
"No ETA", though.
Its not vauge at all. If you read the API thread DDuke posted in some of those Miat threads, you will have seen that Miat's addon cause concern by other addon creators that broke alot more than PVP's addons. I think combat logs/buff trackers would have been messed with; but i cant remember which authors had issues.
That's why she is saying she wants to give all Add on creators the chance to add their thoughts. I have a feeling this might be the API edit PC has been yearning for a long time already.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
Cant believe my eyes - Finally - Thank you for responding to the community.
FloppyTouch wrote: »I feel like when hot topics like this happen ZoS just likes to sit back and watch us fight it out. Why does it take so long to respond to an issue that people are not happy with?
I’m happy that we finally got a response I mean really how hard would it been to respond days ago “we are looking into it” that all that needs to be said
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4557011#Comment_4557011ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys, just letting you know that we have seen and read this thread, and have brought it to the team's attention.
Incidentally, while you're taking stuff out, would you consider putting in group-member stat trackers beyond health? Magicka, stamina, and especially ultimate are all very important things for group members to know about, especially raid leads, especially in PvP. Currently there's an ult-tracking addon out but it jumps through a lot of hoops to do it and messes with map pings to the point of frustration, and the clicking noises have driven said addon users to disable UI sounds. There's a lot of pressure to run the addon in competitive PvP groups and it would be great to just have a standardized API element for it instead of what's being used now. And I like my UI sounds and don't want to have to disable them to run the addon. :-(
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
Miat’s PVP Alerts addon was brought to our attention earlier in the week, and we’ve been running some internal tests on it to gauge functionality and impact. We are still evaluating this addon, and may make changes to the game’s API as a result. Here’s an explanation of how it works, and what it does and doesn’t do:
Miat’s PVP Alerts addon is built upon actions done by players that the combat log records. This includes sprinting, casting an ability, weapon swapping, drinking a potion, stealthing, etc. If a player executes any of those actions, basic messages are sent to the server and clients. This mod hooks into those notifications and filters them to give information about who is in the area. That info is then turned into either a KOS list determined by the player, a stealthier list, or simply an incremental value of players in the area (all are a rough estimation.)
The KOS list, specifically, is simply another layer on top of the above options, where the addon looks for specific players that you can choose to add to a list. When those players perform an action within your existing area of detection, you will be notified that they are in the area. You are not provided info on exactly where they are. Here are a few specific examples:
- If someone is in your existing area of detection and they fully enter stealth, the addon will notify you of the name of the player character that successfully went fully “hidden.”
- If someone is already stealthed and you’re traveling near then, or enter the area they were initially already stealthed in, you will not be notified of that player.
- If someone uses a Nightblade ability that results in them vanishing, they will not trigger the addon’s alert unless they enter the real “hidden” state (i.e. the eye on the HUD is closed).
Lastly this addon adds a kill spam list which shows you when someone has died in your existing area of detection, and to what ability. When you first get these messages, it simply says “Someone has died to Dark Flare.” When you start to get more information on the players around you, it adds that player name to the Saved Variables file for PVPAlerts.lua, then starts to add that information into your UI while playing.
Note that in all the above examples, you are not notified of exactly where the player is. This addon does not add a little blip to your map or compass, and does not give you an overlay that points out specifically where players are. This addon is not radar, a Doppler, or any other means of giving away another player’s exact position.
We want to thank everyone for sharing your concerns with us about this addon.
Before anyone gets their hopes up. This was ZOS's first message about the addon back in December:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3607519/#Comment_3607519ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
Miat’s PVP Alerts addon was brought to our attention earlier in the week, and we’ve been running some internal tests on it to gauge functionality and impact. We are still evaluating this addon, and may make changes to the game’s API as a result. Here’s an explanation of how it works, and what it does and doesn’t do:
Miat’s PVP Alerts addon is built upon actions done by players that the combat log records. This includes sprinting, casting an ability, weapon swapping, drinking a potion, stealthing, etc. If a player executes any of those actions, basic messages are sent to the server and clients. This mod hooks into those notifications and filters them to give information about who is in the area. That info is then turned into either a KOS list determined by the player, a stealthier list, or simply an incremental value of players in the area (all are a rough estimation.)
The KOS list, specifically, is simply another layer on top of the above options, where the addon looks for specific players that you can choose to add to a list. When those players perform an action within your existing area of detection, you will be notified that they are in the area. You are not provided info on exactly where they are. Here are a few specific examples:
- If someone is in your existing area of detection and they fully enter stealth, the addon will notify you of the name of the player character that successfully went fully “hidden.”
- If someone is already stealthed and you’re traveling near then, or enter the area they were initially already stealthed in, you will not be notified of that player.
- If someone uses a Nightblade ability that results in them vanishing, they will not trigger the addon’s alert unless they enter the real “hidden” state (i.e. the eye on the HUD is closed).
Lastly this addon adds a kill spam list which shows you when someone has died in your existing area of detection, and to what ability. When you first get these messages, it simply says “Someone has died to Dark Flare.” When you start to get more information on the players around you, it adds that player name to the Saved Variables file for PVPAlerts.lua, then starts to add that information into your UI while playing.
Note that in all the above examples, you are not notified of exactly where the player is. This addon does not add a little blip to your map or compass, and does not give you an overlay that points out specifically where players are. This addon is not radar, a Doppler, or any other means of giving away another player’s exact position.
We want to thank everyone for sharing your concerns with us about this addon.
If they actually DO something about the API calls. Great.
But history shows they haven't taken much action on the subject. But we'll see.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
Cant believe my eyes - Finally - Thank you for responding to the community.