The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
ARE U HAPPY NOW ZOS IS DOING SOMETHING***Interview With Miat*** Lets Talk Add Ons, Cheating and Q/A
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Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭LegendaryMage wrote: »As i told you 2 times already i'll indulge you with a duel if you publicly apologize after you lose.
'Friendly duel' sounds like a mockery after your attitude towards me in each your post.
My attitude is that you're a crutch player, you'll get no apologies there since it's proven by none other but yourself with your crutch addon.
As I told you before, you will get an apology from me when YOU sanction the nonsense functions in your add-on, go talk to ZOS and explain why it's bad for the game so that the rest of the copies can be neutralized effectively, and then on top of that - apologize to all the players that your addon has been affecting negatively over the course of whenever you released it publicly, up until now. Then you'll get your apology and no sooner.
Now, as for you killing me in a duel, I don't see why I should be apologizing for that? We've determined what the real problem is, this is just your ego talking now. Maybe you should apologize after dying for being arrogant and egoistic and claiming things in advance? That sounds more like it.
@Dorrino quite frankly id have to agree and I honestly think this whole "i do it for the community" is a sham.
I noticed how easier you and a few others streamers were to kill on the PTS in the past, where this add-on and God only knows what other 'private' add-ons you all have access to, don't function. You may not be a bad player but this add-on is certainly a crutch for bad players. Thanks to your contribution to this community, I spend most of my ESO time on the XBOX now.11 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »As i told you 2 times already i'll indulge you with a duel if you publicly apologize after you lose.
'Friendly duel' sounds like a mockery after your attitude towards me in each your post.
My attitude is that you're a crutch player, you'll get no apologies there since it's proven by none other but yourself with your crutch addon.
As I told you before, you will get an apology from me when YOU sanction the nonsense functions in your add-on, go talk to ZOS and explain why it's bad for the game so that the rest of the copies can be neutralized effectively, and then on top of that - apologize to all the players that your addon has been affecting negatively over the course of whenever you released it publicly, up until now. Then you'll get your apology and no sooner.
Now, as for you killing me in a duel, I don't see why I should be apologizing for that? We've determined what the real problem is, this is just your ego talking now. Maybe you should apologize after dying for being arrogant and egoistic and claiming things in advance? That sounds more like it.
@Dorrino quite frankly id have to agree and I honestly think this whole "i do it for the community" is a sham.
I noticed how easier you and a few others streamers were to kill on the PTS in the past, where this add-on and God only knows what other 'private' add-ons you all have access to, don't function. You may not be a bad player but this add-on is certainly a crutch for bad players. Thanks to your contribution to this community, I spend most of my ESO time on the XBOX now.
I don't stream.
The addon worked on each PTS since its creation.
Good players kill bad players with the same ease with and without the addon.
A crutch is supposed to change it otherwise what's the point of a crutch?0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Malamar1229 wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »As i told you 2 times already i'll indulge you with a duel if you publicly apologize after you lose.
'Friendly duel' sounds like a mockery after your attitude towards me in each your post.
My attitude is that you're a crutch player, you'll get no apologies there since it's proven by none other but yourself with your crutch addon.
As I told you before, you will get an apology from me when YOU sanction the nonsense functions in your add-on, go talk to ZOS and explain why it's bad for the game so that the rest of the copies can be neutralized effectively, and then on top of that - apologize to all the players that your addon has been affecting negatively over the course of whenever you released it publicly, up until now. Then you'll get your apology and no sooner.
Now, as for you killing me in a duel, I don't see why I should be apologizing for that? We've determined what the real problem is, this is just your ego talking now. Maybe you should apologize after dying for being arrogant and egoistic and claiming things in advance? That sounds more like it.
@Dorrino quite frankly id have to agree and I honestly think this whole "i do it for the community" is a sham.
I noticed how easier you and a few others streamers were to kill on the PTS in the past, where this add-on and God only knows what other 'private' add-ons you all have access to, don't function. You may not be a bad player but this add-on is certainly a crutch for bad players. Thanks to your contribution to this community, I spend most of my ESO time on the XBOX now.
I don't stream.
The addon worked on each PTS since its creation.
Good players kill bad players with the same ease with and without the addon.
A crutch is supposed to change it otherwise what's the point of a crutch?
I played against you heavily in BGs on the PTS. Maybe it was before the add-on was functioning there. I noticed how easier certain streamers were to kill on the pts....
I don't care about good players killing with the same ease. I care about bad players dodging my frags because an add-on told them so. That's a crutch.7 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »As i told you 2 times already i'll indulge you with a duel if you publicly apologize after you lose.
'Friendly duel' sounds like a mockery after your attitude towards me in each your post.
My attitude is that you're a crutch player, you'll get no apologies there since it's proven by none other but yourself with your crutch addon.
As I told you before, you will get an apology from me when YOU sanction the nonsense functions in your add-on, go talk to ZOS and explain why it's bad for the game so that the rest of the copies can be neutralized effectively, and then on top of that - apologize to all the players that your addon has been affecting negatively over the course of whenever you released it publicly, up until now. Then you'll get your apology and no sooner.
Now, as for you killing me in a duel, I don't see why I should be apologizing for that? We've determined what the real problem is, this is just your ego talking now. Maybe you should apologize after dying for being arrogant and egoistic and claiming things in advance? That sounds more like it.
@Dorrino quite frankly id have to agree and I honestly think this whole "i do it for the community" is a sham.
I noticed how easier you and a few others streamers were to kill on the PTS in the past, where this add-on and God only knows what other 'private' add-ons you all have access to, don't function. You may not be a bad player but this add-on is certainly a crutch for bad players. Thanks to your contribution to this community, I spend most of my ESO time on the XBOX now.
I don't stream.
The addon worked on each PTS since its creation.
Good players kill bad players with the same ease with and without the addon.
A crutch is supposed to change it otherwise what's the point of a crutch?
I played against you heavily in BGs on the PTS. Maybe it was before the add-on was functioning there. I noticed how easier certain streamers were to kill on the pts....
I don't care about good players killing with the same ease. I care about bad players dodging my frags because an add-on told them so. That's a crutch.
1. Addon worked on that pts. Ease to killing was due to no-cp.
2. Why do you care if bad players dodge your frags? You're going to kill them regardless.Edited by Dorrino on October 19, 2017 9:47PM3 -
Yiko✭✭✭✭✭Mundus Stone exploit got in the game when Upper Craglorn was released, it took over a year to fix that (and it wasn't fully fixed). A version of Double Mundus actually worked until January this year (it got fixed in Homestead).
Yet along the way ZOS maintained their position that it was indeed an exploit and fixed variations of the bug along the way, right? Simultaneously, players knew 100% going into this exploit that it was indeed unintended. The same cannot be said in this case. Do not overlook that difference.
Based on the last official word from ZOS on the subject:Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.
This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?
Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.
In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change
So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?
Thank you,
PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. CheersZOS_ChipHilseberg
I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.
So you're telling me that the "last official word from ZOS" came from 9+ months ago from ANOTHER FORUM and began with "I BELIEVE"?? After which some changes to the API were administered, and they've said nothing "official" since? That's the justification for this crusade against "cheaters"?? Absolutely ludicrous. Take the advice from others in this thread, and stop referring to it as cheating.
Even if they have said recently that they're investigating, there's no reason for this hard stance you're taking. It's just opinion.
Refer to the above response regarding the "lastest official word from ZOS."
The only interesting build for next patch I've found is a bow build - and the only reason I can't play it competitively is this addon.
So no, I cannot actually play the game if this addon stays. I don't consider logging in for writs & logging off like I've done for the past 3-4 months really "playing".
I've given ZOS multiple patch cycles to shape up the meta & make me interested in the game again, and now only thing standing inbetween is a bloody 3rd party plugin.
The reason I consider this cheating is quite simple: the whole abusive element of the addon hinges on a flaw/bug in the API that is not functioning as intended (as per the latest official word from ZOS).
It is also a 3rd party plugin, which in many ways makes it worse than Sharpened Maces/Double Mundus ever were and it for a fact has had a more devastating effect on the game.
Reading material: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_exploits
Devastating perhaps for you, pleasant for others :-) Thank you for linking me the wikipedia page on game exploits, too. Totally necessary.
Sure, there have been broken things such as ultimates gaining stealth modifier and back before Battle Spirit stealth damage was absolutely out of control (as were many other things from infinite batswarms to infinite dodge rolls/streaks etc).
But ever since Battle Spirit was added in all stealth related burst (besides the 2H ultimate, which got fixed) has been either avoidable or survivable.
If you look at games like WoW, BnS, GW2 etc, they actually give you an entire special skill bar when you're stealthed to choose how you want utilize the stealth mechanic.
There was also a heavy attack + incap meta before that could obliterate people. Wasn't camo hunter a thing before that, too? That was after battle spirit. Just a few examples, there are more than that, like Overload from stealth lol (which I'm not saying has ever been a problem for me personally). Stealth mechanics have always been a contentious part of the game. The risk vs. reward of stealth in this game has been horrible in the past. It doesn't matter how fragile a player is if he only fights when he chooses, can front-load damage through channels/ranged attacks for an effective <1s kill, and can stealth again immediately after. Healthy gameplay generally has counterplay. And no, running 3k more health isn't counterplay. That's just a build.
I mean, the second sentence can be so misleading. "all stealth related burst (besides the 2H ultimate, which got fixed) has been either avoidable or survivable." Yes, avoidable and survivable. I could run 40k health. Like I mentioned before, I could run around holding block everywhere. Even if the damage didn't global you, the rewards from stealthed attacks were unwarranted. Why do you need additional bonuses on top of being able to open on an unsuspecting player at your discretion with front-loaded damage? Again, there's a reason the stealth bonuses were nerfed.
Yes, those games have their own stealth mechanics just as ESO has its own. Comparing stealth between the games is comparing apples to oranges. So what if they have their own bar for stealth in those games? Every class in this game can stealth. I hope I don't need to elaborate.
Again, misrepresentation. When did I ever say I had trouble living against a stealthed ganker 1v1? Did I not say that I only have issues with stealth-based attacks when I'm already outnumbered? If channels removed stealth immediately and I had good situation awareness (even while outnumbered), I wouldn't generally have that problem. I think that would be more fair for both parties. The ganker takes on more risk and isn't quite as advantaged, while the defender has more room for healthy counterplay. However, that isn't the case. The case IS that Miat's addon does work against such things. Thank you for the condescending and unnecessary Theorycrafting 101 lesson.You don't die with 20k+ health & 7 impen if you break CC quick enough and dodge roll.
Here's what happens to would-be gankers: https://youtu.be/LnAmR9dawa4?t=33s
Here's how you determine how much health/impen you should have:- Open up EsoBuildEditor
- Come up with the nastiest ganker build you can imagine, apply buffs to it.
- Look at skill tooltips, count how much initial burst there is.
- Now, open up your own build & adjust impen/health values (as well as CPs) to survive.
Theorycrafting 101.
Also lol'd at more of your anecdotal evidence on how to deal with gankers. I can't believe I'm responding at all.Yes, Dark Flare is weak against melee builds that stick to them, but I disagree on it being easy to dodge when combined with a quick Javelin (especially from stealth).
Also, Snipe will be perfectly viable (atleast on stamblade) in 1V1 & 1vX next patch, as long as this 3rd party plugin doesn't exist. I will post a duel video proving this as soon as I can actually find people to duel on PTS (it's a ghost town).
1v1 Duels involve keeping melee players away from you by camping fear trap, rearming trap, using cloak & shadow image to kite and land snipe combos. All it takes is one combo to burst someone down, just like any other build.
I saw the duels from your other post, and I wasn't particularly impressed with the skill level of your opponents. Again, your definition of viable is not the same as mine. When I think viable, I think viable against top competition, both builds and players. I'm not saying that your build ISN'T viable, I'm just saying that your video didn't demonstrate it. I saw a stam sorc beat another playing using nothing but heals, hurricane, and heavy lightning staff attacks. Does that make his build viable? Short answer: No. Long answer: Noooooooo.
I touched on this earlier, but if channels brought people out of stealth, the risk vs. reward of stealth based combat wouldn't be so skewed towards the ganker. The only class that makes channels from stealth feasible and practical is NB, right? I think the overall point that I've been stressing is that the channel allows for front-loaded damage from stealth, which reduces the amount of room for healthy play and counterplay. This addon remedies that.If Snipe brought players out of stealth when channeling, it'd be unusable in 1vX as you'd get piled on by a zerg in an instant.
If you're having problems with snipers when engaged against other opponents, dodge roll & find LOS - it's not that hard.
Sure, just wait for the video. Last time people laughed when I said heavy armor magplar would be strong,
back in 2016 before heavy armor buffs. Look what happened.
I love proving people wrong.
I am not having problems with snipers when engaged against other opponents. I DO sometimes have trouble with stealthed snipes when facing multiple opponents, as it is hard to react from a channel coming from an invisible player while also fighting others. If perhaps I had the opportunity to see a snipe being channeled, this wouldn't be as much of an issue for me, as I know failure would be more on my behalf due to lack of awareness.
No, I don't think they should always be easy kills (candy). No one should be free/easy kills. It just so happens that most people who spam Snipe in this game are terrible players, and they're quite easy to kill. These same players rely on stealth mechanics to do most of the work for them when they're going for kills. From my point of view, stealth mechanics are crutches. From others' points of view, this addon is a crutch. Maybe ZOS could balance the two, so that it's not extreme one way or the other.So you think they should always "be candy"? Attacks from stealth are part of the game, whether you like it or not. Some players learned to deal with them, others learned how to create cheats.
This I definitely agree with. I've submitted feedback for stealth multiple times to try to reduce/remove Stealth bonus damage/crit/stun, and they eventually did. It might also be worth noting that I main a stamina NB.The solution is to give your feedback to ZOS (while keeping in mind other people & how they enjoy playing the game), not removing those peoples' playstyle because you don't like it (not addressed at anyone in particular, just a general statement).
Besides, this addon doesn't even affect the strongest stealth builds out there (melee ones) - it only f's up ranged builds (some of which draw heavily on stealth).But yes, I hope we can throw this "bow sucks anyway so it doesn't matter if we ruin it with an addon" derpy argument to the trash bin where it belongs and then incinerate it for good measure.
The argument isn't that bow sucks thus it doesn't matter. The argument is that when you are able to channel highly telegraphed attacks like Dark Flare or Snipe in a 1v1 setting, the addon wouldn't matter anyways. You're fundamentally and consistently misunderstanding what others are saying.Edited by Yiko on October 19, 2017 10:49PM2 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dorrino trying to 1vX the forums...
hahahahahahahahaha...
PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place5 -
Yiko✭✭✭✭✭
It was not on reddit (not that it matters), and they have not taken a hard stance, so there's no reason to preach that this addon is inarguably cheating. My point still stands.0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
well, I tell ya - this is definitely a pvp type thread...
you just don't read this kind of back and forth in the role playing section - those folks are mostly just focused on getting sexy in unique and imaginative ways
Edited by geonsocal on October 19, 2017 10:32PMPVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dorrino trying to 1vX the forums...
hahahahahahahahaha...
Damn... You know the Matrix trilogy is on Netflix too... Now I gotta indulge in some Neo action.
Good luck @Dorrino at obtaining victory. As a person who’s taken on the forums numerous times alone (including mods and devs), you will need all the luck and strength you can muster. Believe in yourself, and never lose focus.
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Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Mmmhmmmm... just say the words: "I was wrong". It'll do good for you.
Just as @Yiko said above i assumed viability as being 'effective against top skill level players'.
If you understood my words as 'can't use snipe against anybody' then i apologize for misunderstanding.1st Duel 3/4 snipes land
2nd Duel (2nd snipe a cloaked one btw, almost takes out target) 3/4 snipes land (one gets interrupted)
3rd Duel 2/5 snipes land
4th Duel 1/2 snipes land
5th Duel 3/3 snipes land
You know why any of those land? No, it's not only because targets aren't very dodge oriented builds, but also because those animations aren't that easy to spot without your addon.
To me they are.
And dodge is just one form of avoidance. When i got my 70% snipe hits in cyro i counted blocks as 'misses'.
0:12 snipe not from stealth, animation can barely if at all be seen. Reaction is to the sound & projectile visual.
On 0:12 he casts snipe right the moment cloak fades. The whole charge up was in cloak.Next, watch the latter portion with your addon and see how obvious it makes those cast times.
To me the difference is the same as with Dizzing swing. I.e. addon makes the animation a bit more noticeable, but nothing crucial.An encore, huh? Sheesh... sometimes I wonder if you think before typing stuff.
I do not insult people by stating their perceived skill level.
Do you insist to treat literally anybody as best players in the world, because even mentioning otherwise would hurt their feelings?
Then why did you choose those players? To hurt them?Nobody can, you can't recognize the animation as Snipe until about half way through the cast - especially if there's a lot more stuff on screen demanding your attention.
I never had problems with that. The very start of the animation (before the bow gradually starts to raise) is a bit harder to see, but you can expect it to happen.
I'm sorry, but i literally never had a problem to notice snipe charge-up. Sometimes i had it with ds when the first part is anim canceled, but snipe was always quite obvious.So you don't watch things like where the opponent laid their invisible mines, where their Rearming Trap is, scan your surroundings if playing 1vX etc? Those take a lot more than 10% of anyone's attention.
In my case it's 10% of my attention. I focus on the guy, with occasional saccades to my hp, my pot, my ult, my image and if cloak worked or not. That takes about 10% of my focus, time wise.No, the animation isn't obvious and the farther away the target is the less obvious it gets. That's part of why your addon is ruining cast time abilities in PvP, as stated many times.
Well animation is obvious. Sorry if it's not for you.You know what your invisible opponent is doing, without your addon?
Obviously.
You don't?
I know precisely what he is doing.
He got a 1 sec window to attack after 1sec into cloak.
Cloak lasts 2.9 sec. Minus 1 sec on global cd after cloak itself.
So 1.9 sec to do something.
If he's gonna incap/ambush/sa/charge snipe - that all can happen only during those 1.9 sec, and most likely during the first 1 sec out of it, because the opponent wouldn't risk to fail the attack on cloak expiration.
If no attack follows during this window - then he cloaked again and i expect his attack in the next window, after 2nd cloak gcd.
Almost no stamblade cloak 3 times unless he's recovering, then he's not a threat.
This whole process is quite intuitive after some experience.How do you know he's sniping you? How do you know he's not just going to cast cloak again? How do you know he didn't use cloak to escape?
See above.
And if that's not a duel, judging by his skill level and the delay after cloak i usually correctly predict if he tries to escape.The whole point of cloaking is to make yourself unpredictable - you can't know what your opponent is doing if they're invisible (you can only guess, and this is where game knowledge becomes handy).
Well, that works until some skill level. After years playing stamnb i kinda 'feel' what would he do.You know what, I challenge you on PTS to dodge all my snipes without using your addon.
After that you can enable it & see the difference for yourself. How about that?
I can indulge you. Without the addon obviously. I know what it does.
I'm just not sure what can you do for me.
The build in the video got exactly one strong point - you should be able to land the snipe on enemy ambush into fear from the trap.
Otherwise you're in severe disadvantage.
I'll check if NA chars are up (or PTS templates have impen).
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clocksstoppe✭✭✭✭✭
✭You guys should really stop giving this addon free advertising. You know the drill. Everyone knows the *** drill by now. You will say it's cheating. He will say it's not technically cheating because ZOS is too incompetent/lazy to fix the API. You will say that it still is cheating as just because something is legal doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. And then neither you or Miat will have any more arguments against eachother because morality is not an objective thing. 90% of the people think he is wrong and 10% think he is doing the ethical thing yet it's a permanent stalemate because it's a question of morality.
[edited for insult]Edited by ZOS_CoriJ on October 20, 2017 2:18AM3 -
Malic✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd like to thank everyone who turned this into the cesspool it really had to be.
Best read in weeks on the forums.
If you think miat is cheating, your expectations are flawed. If after drawing your conclusion you continue to play the game, you are a complete and utter fool.
At this point, the only way ZOS is changing anything is if they have a marked drop in concurrent users. Problem is they sold out and went the complete care bear pve route so now your always going to be saddled with the majority whining about store prices.
PVP? Its no holds barred boys. Load up your addons and make sure you T-bag that clown who "plays clean".1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Mundus Stone exploit got in the game when Upper Craglorn was released, it took over a year to fix that (and it wasn't fully fixed). A version of Double Mundus actually worked until January this year (it got fixed in Homestead).
Yet along the way ZOS maintained their position that it was indeed an exploit and fixed variations of the bug along the way, right? Simultaneously, players knew 100% going into this exploit that it was indeed unintended. The same cannot be said in this case. Do not overlook that difference.
It took over a year for that particular exploit to even come to their attention, let alone for them call it an exploit. Sharpened maces exploit they never even acknowledged, they just fixed it.
Based on the last official word from ZOS on the subject:Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.
This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?
Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.
In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change
So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?
Thank you,
PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. CheersZOS_ChipHilseberg
I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.
So you're telling me that the "last official word from ZOS" came from 9+ months ago from ANOTHER FORUM and began with "I BELIEVE"?? After which some changes to the API were administered, and they've said nothing "official" since? That's the justification for this crusade against "cheaters"?? Absolutely ludicrous. Take the advice from others in this thread, and stop referring to it as cheating.
Right, but it is the last official word from ZOS. Just because you hate stealth/ranged builds and don't like what he said doesn't make it any less true.
Also, they've recently (supposedly, it's been 10 days & no follow-up) brought this to the devs attention again: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4557011#Comment_4557011
Refer to the above response regarding the "lastest official word from ZOS."
The only interesting build for next patch I've found is a bow build - and the only reason I can't play it competitively is this addon.
So no, I cannot actually play the game if this addon stays. I don't consider logging in for writs & logging off like I've done for the past 3-4 months really "playing".
I've given ZOS multiple patch cycles to shape up the meta & make me interested in the game again, and now only thing standing inbetween is a bloody 3rd party plugin.
The reason I consider this cheating is quite simple: the whole abusive element of the addon hinges on a flaw/bug in the API that is not functioning as intended (as per the latest official word from ZOS).
It is also a 3rd party plugin, which in many ways makes it worse than Sharpened Maces/Double Mundus ever were and it for a fact has had a more devastating effect on the game.
Reading material: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_exploits
Devastating perhaps for you, pleasant for others :-) Thank you for linking me the wikipedia page on game exploits, too.
Yeah, "pleasant" to you & your minority:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376277/is-miats-add-on-cheating-to-you/p1
Enjoy cheating alone in a dead MMO if they let this stay much longer. Let's see how "pleasant" that will be.
Sure, there have been broken things such as ultimates gaining stealth modifier and back before Battle Spirit stealth damage was absolutely out of control (as were many other things from infinite batswarms to infinite dodge rolls/streaks etc).
But ever since Battle Spirit was added in all stealth related burst (besides the 2H ultimate, which got fixed) has been either avoidable or survivable.
If you look at games like WoW, BnS, GW2 etc, they actually give you an entire special skill bar when you're stealthed to choose how you want utilize the stealth mechanic.
There was also a heavy attack + incap meta before that could obliterate people.
Was? I can still easily obliterate people with that (heavy attacks are not affected by your cheats) - it's boring though.Wasn't camo hunter a thing before that, too? That was after battle spirit.
Oh sure, if you mean the bug where DW heavy attacks double procced it (again, a bug that luckily got fixed). Normal non-bugged camo hunter was strong vs squishies with reflexes of a turtle (just like most ganking).Just a few examples, there are more than that, like Overload from stealth lol (which I'm not saying has ever been a problem for me personally). Stealth mechanics have always been a contentious part of the game. The risk vs. reward of stealth in this game has seen horrible in the past.
For you perhaps. Yet many players have had no problems whatsoever with stealth, hmm...
The only bad thing with it in my opinion is that it's purely guesswork finding a stealther you know is there. It'd be nice if stealth was a 99% camouflage instead and allowed people with sharp eyes to notice those dangers skulking around.
Blade & Soul for example has a perfect stealth system (much stronger for a skilled player than ESO's stealth, but arguably weaker for bad players). Alas, different games..It doesn't matter how fragile a player is if he only fights when he chooses, can front-load damage through channels/ranged attacks for an effective <1s kill, and can stealth again immediately after.
Of course it matters how fragile a player is. If you aren't a squishy glass cannon, a ganker can't kill you (unless your reaction time is atrocious). Ranged attacks can always be avoided entirely by reacting to the visual/audio cues (it's a skill check).Healthy gameplay generally has counterplay. And no, running running 3k more health isn't counterplay. That's just a build.
And besides melee ganks (from NBs who can reliably land it by cloaking before arriving to target) all attacks from stealth have counterplay. It's called reacting in time.
If you can't do that, consider not playing a squishy glass cannon and complaining how your character isn't tanky enough to survive attacks from assassin builds designed to take out targets quick or lose.I mean, the second sentence can be so misleading. "all stealth related burst (besides the 2H ultimate, which got fixed) has been either avoidable or survivable." Yes, avoidable and survivable. I could run 40k health. Like I mentioned before, I could run around holding block everywhere. Even if the damage didn't global you, the rewards from stealthed attacks were unwarranted.
I run around with 23k health & 7 impen medium armor and have absolutely no problems with any gank build. You don't need 40k health.
And "unwarranted"? You do realize that those "rewards" (the stun is often a downside) are pretty much the only stealth element in the game. People like you shouldn't play MMORPGs if you can't handle rogues/assassins existing.Why do you need additional bonuses on top of being able to open on an unsuspecting player at your discretion with front-loaded damage? Again, there's a reason the stealth bonuses were nerfed.
Why? Because that's what rogues/assassins do - they get bonuses when attacking from stealth/behind target. This is a Massively Multiplayer Roleplaying Game ffs.
You're trying to tell people what roles they should play & what they shouldn't.Yes, those games have their own stealth mechanics just as ESO has its own. Comparing stealth between the games is comparing apples to oranges. So what if they have their own bar for stealth in those games? Every class in this game can stealth. I hope I don't need to elaborate.
Point is that stealth here is already [snip] compared to other (MMO)RPGs, ZOS should work on improving it rather than tolerating 3rd party cheat plugins that make it useless for ranged builds.
Again, misrepresentation. When did I ever say I had trouble living against a stealthed ganker 1v1? Did I not say that I only have issues with stealth-based attacks when I'm already outnumbered?You don't die with 20k+ health & 7 impen if you break CC quick enough and dodge roll.
Here's what happens to would-be gankers: https://youtu.be/LnAmR9dawa4?t=33s
Here's how you determine how much health/impen you should have:- Open up EsoBuildEditor
- Come up with the nastiest ganker build you can imagine, apply buffs to it.
- Look at skill tooltips, count how much initial burst there is.
- Now, open up your own build & adjust impen/health values (as well as CPs) to survive.
Theorycrafting 101.
Ooh, so you're one of those "stealth players are all noobs and I deserve to beat them" types? If you were as good as you think, you'd have no problem with stealth-based attacks when outnumbered.
Not unless those stealth players were also very good at the game.If channels removed stealth immediately and I had good situation awareness (even while outnumbered), I wouldn't generally have that problem. I think that would be more fair for both parties. The ganker takes on more risk and isn't quite as advantaged, while the defender has more room for healthy counterplay. However, that isn't the case. The case IS that Miat's addon does work against such things.
Here's another option for you: go work on your situational awareness. You can't demand nerfs to other players to compensate for your own lack of skill (yes, situational awareness is skill).Thank you for the condescending and unnecessary Theorycrafting 101 lesson.
Also lol'd at more of your anecdotal evidence on how to deal with gankers. I can't believe I'm responding at all.
You're welcome, though something tells any attempt to educate you on how MMOs & math work has fallen on deaf ears.Yes, Dark Flare is weak against melee builds that stick to them, but I disagree on it being easy to dodge when combined with a quick Javelin (especially from stealth).
Also, Snipe will be perfectly viable (atleast on stamblade) in 1V1 & 1vX next patch, as long as this 3rd party plugin doesn't exist. I will post a duel video proving this as soon as I can actually find people to duel on PTS (it's a ghost town).
1v1 Duels involve keeping melee players away from you by camping fear trap, rearming trap, using cloak & shadow image to kite and land snipe combos. All it takes is one combo to burst someone down, just like any other build.
I saw the duels from your other post, and I wasn't particularly impressed with the skill level of your opponents. Again, your definition of viable is not the same as mine. When I think viable, I think viable against top competition, both builds and players. I'm not saying that your build ISN'T viable, I'm just saying that your video didn't demonstrate it. I saw a stam sorc beat another playing using nothing but heals, hurricane, and heavy lightning staff attacks. Does that make his build viable? Short answer: No. Long answer: Noooooooo.
So what, I've gotta win a dueling tournament with it?
I'd love to try, just won't be happening as long as this addon is a thing.
I touched on this earlier, but if channels brought people out of stealth, the risk vs. reward of stealth based combat wouldn't be so skewed towards the ganker. The only class that makes channels from stealth feasible and practical is NB, right? I think the overall point that I've been stressing is that the channel allows for front-loaded damage from stealth, which reduces the amount of room for healthy play and counterplay. This addon remedies that.If Snipe brought players out of stealth when channeling, it'd be unusable in 1vX as you'd get piled on by a zerg in an instant.
If you're having problems with snipers when engaged against other opponents, dodge roll & find LOS - it's not that hard.
Sure, just wait for the video. Last time people laughed when I said heavy armor magplar would be strong,
back in 2016 before heavy armor buffs. Look what happened.
I love proving people wrong.
Cast time abilities are almost exclusively ranged and the projectile can be reacted to in all cases. The only non-projectile cast time ability (Wrecking Blow) has a sound cue that can be reacted to, in case someone managed to sneak up behind you & tried to swing at you.
There is counterplay, I will gladly (at any time) prove this on PTS (where my reaction time is around 200ms slower).
You can make whatever niche gank build you want.I am not having problems with snipers when engaged against other opponents. I DO sometimes have trouble with stealthed snipes when facing multiple opponents, as it is hard to react from a channel coming from an invisible player while also fighting others. If perhaps I had the opportunity to see a snipe being channeled, this wouldn't be as much of an issue for me, as I know failure would be more on my behalf due to lack of awareness.
Guess what, we all die in PvP. [Snip] happens, learn from your mistakes.
You aren't entitled to avoid every single attack from a build you don't like.
No, I don't think they should always be easy kills (candy). No one should be free/easy kills. It just so happens that most people who spam Snipe in this game are terrible players, and they're quite easy to kill. These same players rely on stealth mechanics to do most of the work for them when they're going for kills. From my point of view, stealth mechanics are crutches. From others' points of view, this addon is a crutch. Maybe ZOS could balance the two, so that it's not extreme one way or another.So you think they should always "be candy"? Attacks from stealth are part of the game, whether you like it or not. Some players learned to deal with them, others learned how to create cheats.
You say they're mostly bad players and easy to kill, yet you want to nerf them even more? I really don't follow your logic at all.
Have you ever considered how this game might look from the other perspective? You know, the "terrible, easy to kill player"? How they might be enjoying the game right now?
Bow is about to become viable for 1v1 & 1vX for the first time since 2015, and people like you want to nerf it because someone Xv1'd you with one?
Get out of here.
This I definitely agree with. I've submitted feedback for stealth multiple times to try to reduce/remove Stealth bonus damage/crit/stun, and they eventually did. It might also be worth noting that I main a stamina NB.The solution is to give your feedback to ZOS (while keeping in mind other people & how they enjoy playing the game), not removing those peoples' playstyle because you don't like it (not addressed at anyone in particular, just a general statement).
Besides, this addon doesn't even affect the strongest stealth builds out there (melee ones) - it only f's up ranged builds (some of which draw heavily on stealth).
Yeah, so it's baddies like you we've got to thank for a dying game. What a surprise.But yes, I hope we can throw this "bow sucks anyway so it doesn't matter if we ruin it with an addon" derpy argument to the trash bin where it belongs and then incinerate it for good measure.
The argument isn't that bow sucks, thus it doesn't matter. The argument is that when you are able to channel highly telegraphed attacks like Dark Flare or Snipe in a 1v1 setting, the addon wouldn't matter anyways. You're fundamentally and consistently misunderstanding what others are saying.
Dark Flare might be highly telegraphed (but it's easier to land thanks to Javelin), but Snipe certainly isn't - not without the addon.4 -
ZOS_CoriJ✭✭✭✭✭While we would like to keep this thread open with the understanding that there is a desire to discuss this content, we have had to remove quite a few comments from this thread for harassment and insults. We will be closing this thread if it cannot conduct a civil conversation without derailing into flaming other users.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
No longer available to take PMs or messages: Please defer to another Moderator4 -
Bumblebeelzebub✭✭✭While we would like to keep this thread open with the understanding that there is a desire to discuss this content, we have had to remove quite a few comments from this thread for harassment and insults. We will be closing this thread if it cannot conduct a civil conversation without derailing into flaming other users.
Then deal with Miat the problem.9 -
ZOS_CoriJ✭✭✭✭✭
Moderators do not have any affect on in-game policies, so I'm afraid we can't help there. Any changes however do not validate any breaks in those rules to make a point.Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »Then deal with Miat the problem.
We've seen some fairly good discussion going on in this thread outside of the more aggressive commentary. If you are interested in continuing the discussion and getting more attention on this issue, we suggest keeping it appropriate. It does no one a favor if we have to otherwise close the thread down.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
No longer available to take PMs or messages: Please defer to another Moderator12 -
Bumblebeelzebub✭✭✭
Moderators do not have any affect on in-game policies, so I'm afraid we can't help there. Any changes however do not validate any breaks in those rules to make a point.Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »Then deal with Miat the problem.
We've seen some fairly good discussion going on in this thread outside of the more aggressive commentary. If you are interested in continuing the discussion and getting more attention on this issue, we suggest keeping it appropriate. It does no one a favor if we have to otherwise close the thread down.
This has been discussed on the forums adnauseam. Your inaction (i.e. the inaction of the company you represent) speaks volumes. Thanks.6 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Moderators do not have any affect on in-game policies, so I'm afraid we can't help there. Any changes however do not validate any breaks in those rules to make a point.Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »Then deal with Miat the problem.
We've seen some fairly good discussion going on in this thread outside of the more aggressive commentary. If you are interested in continuing the discussion and getting more attention on this issue, we suggest keeping it appropriate. It does no one a favor if we have to otherwise close the thread down.
Do moderators bring certain threads to the attention of the appropriate developers? Or do the developers themselves have to surf the forums to see what's trending with the players?4 -
Bumblebeelzebub✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »
Moderators do not have any affect on in-game policies, so I'm afraid we can't help there. Any changes however do not validate any breaks in those rules to make a point.Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »Then deal with Miat the problem.
We've seen some fairly good discussion going on in this thread outside of the more aggressive commentary. If you are interested in continuing the discussion and getting more attention on this issue, we suggest keeping it appropriate. It does no one a favor if we have to otherwise close the thread down.
Do moderators bring certain threads to the attention of the appropriate developers? Or do the developers themselves have to surf the forums to see what's trending with the players?
Good question! Are we screaming into the dark?2 -
Morgul667✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭While we would like to keep this thread open with the understanding that there is a desire to discuss this content, we have had to remove quite a few comments from this thread for harassment and insults. We will be closing this thread if it cannot conduct a civil conversation without derailing into flaming other users.
This is a shame that ZOS feels it is OK to intervene on such a thread and give no position.
Miat add-on (and others) are acting unfairly to gain an advantage over other PVP players: this is cheating ! Look it up if you need but stop the cheaters (ZOS, not you directly) and shut the whole thing down already.
This is not OK to come and pretend this is yet just another simple thread that needs to be moderated. We need a solution from ZOS.
4 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I stand corrected (sort of), the last meeting between ZOS and CoN was apparently in April ...
I'll have to check when i get home but i'm pretty sure it was more recent than that ...
1 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Morgul667
For thread moderators, this is yet another thread that needs to be moderated. It's what they're paid to do. If it gets out of hand part of their job is to shut this thread down. For the moderators, they give their position that if people keep going out of line, they will pull the plug, even if there has been good discourse, because not everyone could keep their cool.
While they are under the ZoS banner, they are not Game Designers, whose job it would be to put forward a stance about your given concern.3 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MODs need a different tag then the Devs get. Since they clearly do NOT have any affect on in-game policies.
Moderators do not have any affect on in-game policies, so I'm afraid we can't help there. Any changes however do not validate any breaks in those rules to make a point.Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »Then deal with Miat the problem.
3 -
silky_soft✭✭✭✭✭
✭Can miat make a addon to counter shields or perma block?Here $15, goat mount please. Not paying 45 : lol :
Netch is free with a cleanse and free magika. You nerf siphon into the ground. Nice balance team.
How do you go home every night and say, I did a great job at work today. You actually do your job properly.
Step 1: roll templar. Step 2: level up jabs. Step 3: slap on weapon damage build. Step 4: que for bg. Step 5: leap...jabsjabsjabsjabs0 -
Argawarga✭✭✭✭silky_soft wrote: »Can miat make a addon to counter shields or perma block?
Can ZOS make an addon to counter Miat?4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭silky_soft wrote: »Can miat make a addon to counter shields or perma block?
Can ZOS make an addon to counter Miat?
Actually, that's brilliant.
If their problem is that they can't fix the API because it'd affect some PvE addons that utilize same functions, then they could just allow a function through API that makes it so no one can access your combat information and get your cast timers visible.1 -
Argawarga✭✭✭✭silky_soft wrote: »Can miat make a addon to counter shields or perma block?
Can ZOS make an addon to counter Miat?
Actually, that's brilliant.
If their problem is that they can't fix the API because it'd affect some PvE addons that utilize same functions, then they could just allow a function through API that makes it so no one can access your combat information and get your cast timers visible.
And this is their excuse no?0
This discussion has been closed.