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Shuffle Skill is going to be locked under Medium Armor - PVP

  • amir412
    amir412
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    LegacyDM wrote: »

    Ok you ignored what I said. I'll break this down so you can understand. Blur doesn't remove snares. You don't care about the 15% dodge chance. What is your problem with blur on a stam heavy armor build if you don't care about the 15% dodge chance?

    Sigh. My problem is that the class overperform already at its current place with blur, even vs other Stam heavy armor(DK for example) using shuffle. thats my *** problem. That a class that not built into tanking, doing it better than a class that is + Have way more dmg output.

    I dont expect u to understand, unless u played vs a Top tier player that has good ani cancel skills.

    EDIT:
    I've looked at ur twitch, ure a *** zerger, dont talk to me.

    EDIT 2:
    Watched abit more to confirm,
    u died in a 2 vs 1, lel.
    Edited by amir412 on October 10, 2017 12:39PM
    PC | EU | AD |Stam Dk named "-Saidden"| 1700 CP|
    "..A world without fire. Ashen one, is this truly thy wish?.."


  • paulsimonps
    paulsimonps
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    amir412 wrote: »
    LegacyDM wrote: »

    Ok you ignored what I said. I'll break this down so you can understand. Blur doesn't remove snares. You don't care about the 15% dodge chance. What is your problem with blur on a stam heavy armor build if you don't care about the 15% dodge chance?

    Sigh. My problem is that the class overperform already at its current place with blur, even vs other Stam heavy armor(DK for example) using shuffle. thats my *** problem. That a class that not built into tanking, doing it better than a class that is + Have way more dmg output.

    I dont expect u to understand, unless u played vs a Top tier player that has good ani cancel skills.

    EDIT:
    I've looked at ur twitch, ure a *** zerger, dont talk to me.

    EDIT 2:
    Watched abit more to confirm,
    u died in a 2 vs 1, lel.

    Why always the hate on zergers though?
  • amir412
    amir412
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    Why always the hate on zergers though?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGuK0pGxHzI
    Thats why.
    Using the best combat system ive seen so far for this, is just ***.
    Edited by amir412 on October 10, 2017 9:33PM
    PC | EU | AD |Stam Dk named "-Saidden"| 1700 CP|
    "..A world without fire. Ashen one, is this truly thy wish?.."


  • paulsimonps
    paulsimonps
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    amir412 wrote: »
    Why always the hate on zergers though?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGuK0pGxHzI
    Thats why.
    Using the best combat system ive seen so far for this, is just ***.

    Again with the elitist "small scale" crap..... Why should they let that person go? They fighting is getting closer to the keep and the resource. Why should they leave him be? Guy could just as well turn around and stealth and then gank people that stray from the group. There is no reason for them no to kill him.

    Being "small scale" does not make you better than others, thinking that you are makes you a giant A hole.
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    @paulsimonps

    Closer to the keep and the resource? He's actually running away from Roe all the way to Nickel almost. It's exactly that going after one player with a full raid BS that is the worst form of zerging. The only missing thing was a teabag.
    Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar
    All chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    amir412 wrote: »
    LegacyDM wrote: »

    Ok you ignored what I said. I'll break this down so you can understand. Blur doesn't remove snares. You don't care about the 15% dodge chance. What is your problem with blur on a stam heavy armor build if you don't care about the 15% dodge chance?

    Sigh. My problem is that the class overperform already at its current place with blur, even vs other Stam heavy armor(DK for example) using shuffle. thats my *** problem. That a class that not built into tanking, doing it better than a class that is + Have way more dmg output.

    I dont expect u to understand, unless u played vs a Top tier player that has good ani cancel skills.

    EDIT:
    I've looked at ur twitch, ure a *** zerger, dont talk to me.

    EDIT 2:
    Watched abit more to confirm,
    u died in a 2 vs 1, lel.

    A sword and board heavy armor stam dk will be alot more tanky than a stamblade. A stamblade will have more damage output it seems pretty balanced. I don't really believe that stamblade is outperforming stam dk right now. Stam dk is still really good especially the reverb leap combo.
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    I'm excited for this change.
  • Victimize
    Victimize
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    A sword and board heavy armor stam dk will be alot more tanky than a stamblade. A stamblade will have more damage output it seems pretty balanced. I don't really believe that stamblade is outperforming stam dk right now. Stam dk is still really good especially the reverb leap combo.
    You must be living on a different planet if you think that.....
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    Victimize wrote: »
    A sword and board heavy armor stam dk will be alot more tanky than a stamblade. A stamblade will have more damage output it seems pretty balanced. I don't really believe that stamblade is outperforming stam dk right now. Stam dk is still really good especially the reverb leap combo.
    You must be living on a different planet if you think that.....

    If you are a stamdk and are losing to a stamblade you just need a little more experience. The dragonknight class is a beast 1v1 in general. Honestly stamblade really isn't all that great it's probably the easiest class for me to beat and that's even top teir nightblades. As for dk they are just impossible to kill so just throw on legion and they get insane damage so while you take no damage yourself you can hit a good build with a 10k leap. Bad builds you can kill I'm one leap combo. I don't know where people get the idea that stam dk is bad. It was the same with mag dk awhile back and now it's a Unstoppable demi-god
  • amir412
    amir412
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    A sword and board heavy armor stam dk will be alot more tanky than a stamblade. A stamblade will have more damage output it seems pretty balanced. I don't really believe that stamblade is outperforming stam dk right now. Stam dk is still really good especially the reverb leap combo.

    I dunno who u duel, but clearly i can confirm that Heavy NB is much more tanky and have more dmg than stam DK. WAY more.

    If you are a stamdk and are losing to a stamblade you just need a little more experience. The dragonknight class is a beast 1v1 in general. Honestly stamblade really isn't all that great it's probably the easiest class for me to beat and that's even top teir nightblades. As for dk they are just impossible to kill so just throw on legion and they get insane damage so while you take no damage yourself you can hit a good build with a 10k leap. Bad builds you can kill I'm one leap combo. I don't know where people get the idea that stam dk is bad. It was the same with mag dk awhile back and now it's a Unstoppable demi-god


    Yo dude, i dont need any exp on dk, its my main since 1.4
    Please come EU and whisper @Bambok13 for a duel and see for urself.
    Edited by amir412 on October 11, 2017 5:41AM
    PC | EU | AD |Stam Dk named "-Saidden"| 1700 CP|
    "..A world without fire. Ashen one, is this truly thy wish?.."


  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    amir412 wrote: »

    A sword and board heavy armor stam dk will be alot more tanky than a stamblade. A stamblade will have more damage output it seems pretty balanced. I don't really believe that stamblade is outperforming stam dk right now. Stam dk is still really good especially the reverb leap combo.

    I dunno who u duel, but clearly i can confirm that Heavy NB is much more tanky and have more dmg than stam DK. WAY more.

    If you are a stamdk and are losing to a stamblade you just need a little more experience. The dragonknight class is a beast 1v1 in general. Honestly stamblade really isn't all that great it's probably the easiest class for me to beat and that's even top teir nightblades. As for dk they are just impossible to kill so just throw on legion and they get insane damage so while you take no damage yourself you can hit a good build with a 10k leap. Bad builds you can kill I'm one leap combo. I don't know where people get the idea that stam dk is bad. It was the same with mag dk awhile back and now it's a Unstoppable demi-god


    Yo dude, i dont need any exp on dk, its my main since 1.4
    Please come EU and whisper @Bambok13 for a duel and see for urself.

    I duel top teir nightblades on my platform all the time even the heavy armor bleed builds. they do have more damage output but they are not as tanky. There's no way for them to be For a couple reason. The main reason is They don't have major mending. The second is since the dk class can run dots they can effectivly run sword and board where if a stamblade was to run sword and board they would not have the pressure to kill me. I'm not really seeing how you are thinking stamblade is more tanky than a stam dk. What it sounds like is you struggle with stamblades for whatever reason and instead of it being user error you blame it on a class imbalance That's really not there (in my opinion at least) it doesn't matter how long you've played a class it's never too late to learn something new.

    Edit: what is it that you feel is making stamblade more tanky?
    Edited by thankyourat on October 11, 2017 6:09AM
  • amir412
    amir412
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    I duel top teir nightblades on my platform all the time even the heavy armor bleed builds. they do have more damage output but they are not as tanky. There's no way for them to be For a couple reason. The main reason is They don't have major mending. The second is since the dk class can run dots they can effectivly run sword and board where if a stamblade was to run sword and board they would not have the pressure to kill me. I'm not really seeing how you are thinking stamblade is more tanky than a stam dk. What it sounds like is you struggle with stamblades for whatever reason and instead of it being user error you blame it on a class imbalance That's really not there (in my opinion at least) it doesn't matter how long you've played a class it's never too late to learn something new

    Cuz simply, ure fighting the wrong person.
    Lemme guess, Xbox? PS4?

    I struggle with 1 Specific nightblade who have the same amount of time invested in the class as i invested in dk's.
    Edited by amir412 on October 11, 2017 6:10AM
    PC | EU | AD |Stam Dk named "-Saidden"| 1700 CP|
    "..A world without fire. Ashen one, is this truly thy wish?.."


  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    amir412 wrote: »
    [quote="thankyourat;c-4558845"

    I duel top teir nightblades on my platform all the time even the heavy armor bleed builds. they do have more damage output but they are not as tanky. There's no way for them to be For a couple reason. The main reason is They don't have major mending. The second is since the dk class can run dots they can effectivly run sword and board where if a stamblade was to run sword and board they would not have the pressure to kill me. I'm not really seeing how you are thinking stamblade is more tanky than a stam dk. What it sounds like is you struggle with stamblades for whatever reason and instead of it being user error you blame it on a class imbalance That's really not there (in my opinion at least) it doesn't matter how long you've played a class it's never too late to learn something new

    Cuz simply, ure fighting the wrong person.
    Lemme guess, Xbox? PS4?[/quote]

    Yes xbox na, but it doesn't matter which platform. there will be great players of all classes on all platforms. The abilities and gear sets are the same as well as the mechanics
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    Finaly :))) one of the best changes ever, if weapon skills are bound to weapons then armor skill should be bound to armor to :) Now im waiting for armor ultimates :)
    Say no to Toxic Casuals!
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.


    "Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge
  • LegacyDM
    LegacyDM
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    amir412 wrote: »
    LegacyDM wrote: »

    Ok you ignored what I said. I'll break this down so you can understand. Blur doesn't remove snares. You don't care about the 15% dodge chance. What is your problem with blur on a stam heavy armor build if you don't care about the 15% dodge chance?

    Sigh. My problem is that the class overperform already at its current place with blur, even vs other Stam heavy armor(DK for example) using shuffle. thats my *** problem. That a class that not built into tanking, doing it better than a class that is + Have way more dmg output.

    I dont expect u to understand, unless u played vs a Top tier player that has good ani cancel skills.

    EDIT:
    I've looked at ur twitch, ure a *** zerger, dont talk to me.

    EDIT 2:
    Watched abit more to confirm,
    u died in a 2 vs 1, lel.

    ok bro. Keep yapping. Your whining isnt going to change anything. Class skills are class skills for a reason. Allowing NB to blur enhances build diversity and a reason to play NB. Cry me more tears becaus gasp a NB has a unique skill like every other class has. That's what makes classes unique. However, if you want to advocate for cookie cutter builds go for it.

    It's funny you didn't even know that blur doesn't remove snares lol. You tout yourself as this amazing Eu player and you don't even know class mechanics. One minute you claim you don't care abut 15% dodge chance next you do. Make up your mind, kid.

    As for my stream I have nothing to prove to you. At last I put myself out there. Do you stream? Lol my reputation speaks for itself. I mostly 2vx with my buddy crusader. Sometimes out of boredom I solo Zerg surf because I play at non peak hours due to time zone differences, and at non peak hours that's where the only action is. There are some damn good players out there and some you just can't 1vx.

    Tell ya what. Come to pc NA and We will 2v2 you and anyone else you want.

    It's pretty pathetic you have to resort to trolling someone's stream... Are you in grade school?
    Legacy of Kain
    Vicious Carnage
    ¥ampire Lord of the South
  • Zer0oo
    Zer0oo
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    Anyone else is always disappointed that all this 1vs1 me end in "sorry i am on a different server"?

    All that salty popcorn i already grabbed is wasted.
    Edited by Zer0oo on October 11, 2017 9:08AM
    Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus
    - Update 23
  • Subversus
    Subversus
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    amir412 wrote: »
    LegacyDM wrote: »

    Ok you ignored what I said. I'll break this down so you can understand. Blur doesn't remove snares. You don't care about the 15% dodge chance. What is your problem with blur on a stam heavy armor build if you don't care about the 15% dodge chance?

    Sigh. My problem is that the class overperform already at its current place with blur, even vs other Stam heavy armor(DK for example) using shuffle. thats my *** problem. That a class that not built into tanking, doing it better than a class that is + Have way more dmg output.

    I dont expect u to understand, unless u played vs a Top tier player that has good ani cancel skills.

    EDIT:
    I've looked at ur twitch, ure a *** zerger, dont talk to me.

    EDIT 2:
    Watched abit more to confirm,
    u died in a 2 vs 1, lel.

    A sword and board heavy armor stam dk will be alot more tanky than a stamblade. A stamblade will have more damage output it seems pretty balanced. I don't really believe that stamblade is outperforming stam dk right now. Stam dk is still really good especially the reverb leap combo.

    I can beat 100% of the stamdks on your server on my heavy stamblade and that's a fact. Anyone that disagrees is free to hit me up on the pts for some lessons.
  • amir412
    amir412
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    LegacyDM wrote: »
    ok bro. Keep yapping. Your whining isnt going to change anything. Class skills are class skills for a reason. Allowing NB to blur enhances build diversity and a reason to play NB. Cry me more tears becaus gasp a NB has a unique skill like every other class has. That's what makes classes unique. However, if you want to advocate for cookie cutter builds go for it.

    It's funny you didn't even know that blur doesn't remove snares lol. You tout yourself as this amazing Eu player and you don't even know class mechanics. One minute you claim you don't care abut 15% dodge chance next you do. Make up your mind, kid.

    As for my stream I have nothing to prove to you. At last I put myself out there. Do you stream? Lol my reputation speaks for itself. I mostly 2vx with my buddy crusader. Sometimes out of boredom I solo Zerg surf because I play at non peak hours due to time zone differences, and at non peak hours that's where the only action is. There are some damn good players out there and some you just can't 1vx.

    Tell ya what. Come to pc NA and We will 2v2 you and anyone else you want.

    It's pretty pathetic you have to resort to trolling someone's stream... Are you in grade school?

    Nice story bruh,
    The only small scale u won was when u and ur buddy tryharded a solo player.- Just go watch ur stream, ur frustrating and depression face sums it all.
    I never said that Blur removes snares, i said that 15% dodge isnt a big deal, but still, if u cant get this buff on heavy armor, then one induvidual class shouldnt aswell. Surely not the NB class lel.
    You died to 450 cp guy... i dont think i need another guy to finish u both x)
    Again with the elitist "small scale" crap..... Why should they let that person go? They fighting is getting closer to the keep and the resource. Why should they leave him be? Guy could just as well turn around and stealth and then gank people that stray from the group. There is no reason for them no to kill him.

    Being "small scale" does not make you better than others, thinking that you are makes you a giant A hole.


    Your logic is just fked, i assume ure a zerger.
    Anyways, if i can kill 5 more like u without relying on any1, it doesnt make me better? o.O
    Edited by amir412 on October 11, 2017 11:24AM
    PC | EU | AD |Stam Dk named "-Saidden"| 1700 CP|
    "..A world without fire. Ashen one, is this truly thy wish?.."


  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    Subversus wrote: »
    amir412 wrote: »
    LegacyDM wrote: »

    Ok you ignored what I said. I'll break this down so you can understand. Blur doesn't remove snares. You don't care about the 15% dodge chance. What is your problem with blur on a stam heavy armor build if you don't care about the 15% dodge chance?

    Sigh. My problem is that the class overperform already at its current place with blur, even vs other Stam heavy armor(DK for example) using shuffle. thats my *** problem. That a class that not built into tanking, doing it better than a class that is + Have way more dmg output.

    I dont expect u to understand, unless u played vs a Top tier player that has good ani cancel skills.

    EDIT:
    I've looked at ur twitch, ure a *** zerger, dont talk to me.

    EDIT 2:
    Watched abit more to confirm,
    u died in a 2 vs 1, lel.

    A sword and board heavy armor stam dk will be alot more tanky than a stamblade. A stamblade will have more damage output it seems pretty balanced. I don't really believe that stamblade is outperforming stam dk right now. Stam dk is still really good especially the reverb leap combo.

    I can beat 100% of the stamdks on your server on my heavy stamblade and that's a fact. Anyone that disagrees is free to hit me up on the pts for some lessons.

    Lol i think you are confused with the difference fact and opinion. And since we are making outlandish statements, i bet i can beat your heavy armor nightblade with my heavy armor stam dk. Feel free to pick up a xbox if you ever want to start dueling for real
  • sluice
    sluice
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    This change will force people to be more tanky and group up even more together.
    It's going to be a ton of fun to fight 35k+ health DK playing alongside their pocket healer.

    This will also even push the meta torwards Magicka builds even more, making them even stronger than ever.
    (And, in my honest opinion, most Magicka builds are already more of a treat in Cyrodiil than Stam builds)

    This change is horrible if none of this is done "fix" Snares and healing.
    • Remove some snares from the game
    • Snares should be debufffs (therefore NOT stacking)
    • More snare removal tools (Fighters Guild?, Undaunted?, Stamina based Elusive Mist Form?)
    • More burst healing option for stamina, outside of Rally (Fighters Guild? Undaunted? Per class?)
    • Improve Medium Armor (there is clearly a balance issue between all 3 armor type, limiting the skill to 5 piece wearer is not the solution)

    And let's face it this change hurts Stam DK the most. A lot less people would complain of this change if Green Dragon Blood was viable. (Equivalent of Coagulating but for Stamina?)

    Forcing every stam toon to play 2H and use Rally is not very exciting and original, is it!?

    Having 1 skill out of 4 snaring people isn't.

    Being forced to play weak medium armor to not get snare (because Rally is a must, since all other burst healing source are crap) isn't either.

    My suggestion to ZOS is :
    Push back this change, until you have look at the whole picture.
    To get this right, a lot of tinkering and testing will need to be done.



    PSN: sluiceqc (NA-PS4) CP: 551+
    I strictly play on Daggerfall Covenant for when it comes to PvP
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    #VMATOKENSYSTEM #TRAITCHANGE
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  • amir412
    amir412
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    sluice wrote: »
    This change will force people to be more tanky and group up even more together.
    It's going to be a ton of fun to fight 35k+ health DK playing alongside their pocket healer.

    This will also even push the meta torwards Magicka builds even more, making them even stronger than ever.
    (And, in my honest opinion, most Magicka builds are already more of a treat in Cyrodiil than Stam builds)

    This change is horrible if none of this is done "fix" Snares and healing.
    • Remove some snares from the game
    • Snares should be debufffs (therefore NOT stacking)
    • More snare removal tools (Fighters Guild?, Undaunted?, Stamina based Elusive Mist Form?)
    • More burst healing option for stamina, outside of Rally (Fighters Guild? Undaunted? Per class?)
    • Improve Medium Armor (there is clearly a balance issue between all 3 armor type, limiting the skill to 5 piece wearer is not the solution)

    And let's face it this change hurts Stam DK the most. A lot less people would complain of this change if Green Dragon Blood was viable. (Equivalent of Coagulating but for Stamina?)

    Forcing every stam toon to play 2H and use Rally is not very exciting and original, is it!?

    Having 1 skill out of 4 snaring people isn't.

    Being forced to play weak medium armor to not get snare (because Rally is a must, since all other burst healing source are crap) isn't either.

    My suggestion to ZOS is :
    Push back this change, until you have look at the whole picture.
    To get this right, a lot of tinkering and testing will need to be done.



    Wat? did some1 just agreed with me?
    Sad thing med armor will still get rekt by heavy and thats a fact, just a lazy way to "buff" med armor.
    They wont revert this change cuz its not hitting magSorc :trollface:
    PC | EU | AD |Stam Dk named "-Saidden"| 1700 CP|
    "..A world without fire. Ashen one, is this truly thy wish?.."


  • Koensol
    Koensol
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    amir412 wrote: »

    I duel top teir nightblades on my platform all the time even the heavy armor bleed builds. they do have more damage output but they are not as tanky. There's no way for them to be For a couple reason. The main reason is They don't have major mending. The second is since the dk class can run dots they can effectivly run sword and board where if a stamblade was to run sword and board they would not have the pressure to kill me. I'm not really seeing how you are thinking stamblade is more tanky than a stam dk. What it sounds like is you struggle with stamblades for whatever reason and instead of it being user error you blame it on a class imbalance That's really not there (in my opinion at least) it doesn't matter how long you've played a class it's never too late to learn something new

    Cuz simply, ure fighting the wrong person.
    Lemme guess, Xbox? PS4?

    I struggle with 1 Specific nightblade who have the same amount of time invested in the class as i invested in dk's.
    Hilarity ensues. Making assumptions based on platform. Lol.

    Also, the fact you are getting beat by 1 specific nightblade, says more about your skill than about his class. Truth is you are just biased as *** based on your bad experiences and therefore think you can somehow decide what is balanced and what is not. Your win/loss ratio is not a valid basis for balance. Keep trying though, OP.
    Edited by Koensol on October 11, 2017 1:36PM
  • LegendaryMage
    LegendaryMage
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    @amir412 I know which NB you're referring to and having fought (and killed) such builds on my sorc I can tell you what's wrong with them and why most other mag builds can't deal with it (unless you're a mag dk obviously).

    Heavy armor meta with s/b is extremely potent in duels, it makes for long boring fights when one cannot simply kill a player who's either spamming a defensive ultimate such as s/b, or an offensive ultimate such as incap.

    Bloodspawn + undeath is also very potent in full heavy armor against anyone pretty much, add on minor maim and major evasion and you get a full blown tank setup that's simply boring to fight against.

    Now, as I said, I have taken that build down quite a few times on my sorc and the way to kill it, is to kite it (no gap closer on your opponent allows that) but since you're a stam build yourself, that's not happening.

    So here's what's wrong with setups like that, in no particular order;

    1. Bloodspawn + Undeath, works even in medium armor, extreme tankiness with all the minor/major resistance buffs, sword & shield, defensive ultimates (s/b) and occasional rolldodge. Undeath needs to be toned down a bit (we're talking setups with 25k+ hp at least) and bloodspawn needs to be looked into a bit as well because 6k+ resistances that are triggered all the time (not to mention ultygen) are OP as well.

    2. Rapid mending from the heavy tree should not give back 25% additional stamina on heavy attacks, such builds spam heavy attacks between skill weaves (or even two skills) and can sustain with an offensive heavy armor set that gives bonuses when getting hit, and you will get hit against competent players.

    3. Speaking of offensive heavy armor sets, these need to be looked into as well.

    4. Major evasion should never work in heavy armor, nothing to do with snares here - just a plain fact, its' OP as hell when combined with everything mentioned above.

    5. Incap is too strong in duels for its cost (especially with BS) and it does too much, a stun, a 20% damage increase out of nowhere, a good hitting skill AND a major defile bumped up at about 40% thanks to the CPs. This is why you'll see most builds like that running an offensive ulty like incap + a defensive one like s/b.

    6. The player you're talking about plays the same build for ages now and from what I've seen cannot even come close on any other class (ex, stamplar vs stamplar - very easy kills for me tbh) so keep that in mind, someone who plays a dueling build for the sake of just dueling other players who play open world builds at the duel spot, isn't good grounds for balance discussions, these guys are rare and few in-between so best ignore and don't fight the cheesy setups.

    For me personally, when I see a player spamming heavy attacks in heavy armor, tanking with evasion/minor maim and full heavy with BS, I know we're talking about a crutch player and I can't take those players seriously, especially when they start talking about balance and what's good and what's not. There just isn't a single reason why I (or you, or anyone else) should listen to one trick ponies, so just forget about it.

    I do like to fight them, but they usually avoid me on sorc because they know it won't be an easy fight for them, so that tells a lot about a player too. ;)
  • pieratsos
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    Mayrael wrote: »
    Finaly :))) one of the best changes ever, if weapon skills are bound to weapons then armor skill should be bound to armor to :) Now im waiting for armor ultimates :)

    We asked for weapon ults and we ended up with snb, resto, destro ult and after so many months we are still suffering and they are still trying to fix them. Even the other 3 utls are not good. Broken/useless/niche/limited use. They literally couldnt get one of them right.

    I dont even want to imagine what will happen when they introduce 3 new armor ults.
    They would probably look like 50k shields, 100% dodge chance and always cc immune mixed with random buffs like major protection, major vitality and major maim. And they will cost 100 ult of course. Just hope that day never comes.
  • Krayzie
    Krayzie
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    Brrrofski wrote: »
    Nobody used it for dodge chance. Most people in heavy want to get hit for wrath and constitution passives, as well as things like fury and 7th legion.

    People use it for snare removal - because every skill in this game is a snare these days.

    Blur is irrelevant really. Most stamblades are in medium as it is.

    lol what?
    I'm a PVE roleplayer concerned about my vampires stage 4 skin tone and keep getting load screens so I came here to distract people from major issues with a rant thread about my characters cosmetic appearance.
  • deepseamk20b14_ESO
    deepseamk20b14_ESO
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    jaburns wrote: »
    Drakkdjinn wrote: »
    RIP snare counterplay.

    Preview of Cyrodiil gameplay:


    Maybe this is their roundabount way of dealing with cyro lag -- if half the population is snared, everyone's character will run at the same speed as ZoS' servers.

    Full heavy armor should not be highly mobile to begin with, not compared to medium armor. If they want the heavy armor meta to change, this change needs to happen. I find it a "semi-buff" to medium armor. Or at least a reason for people to run it more.

    With that logic- then light armor should have a sprint/dodge increase speed over medium armor...

    Actually, it’s perfectly sound logic. This isn’t real life. This is about balancing. I’m not sure how many MMO’s you have played, but I’ve played quite a few. There is one glaring similarity between pretty much all of them that comes to movement/shields/resistances. There is a reason different armor types are better at some things but worse at others. It’s a balance thing.

    Light armor has almost always had access to either great kiting skills or shields. Medium generally has dodge/dodge chance, or invisibility of some sort. Heavy generally has self buffs for tanking, high HP, and high resistances.

    Light and medium do the most DPS, with light also being a healer. Heavy armor is for tanking. I know this game touts the whole “play as you want” but there is a reason for the so called holy trinity of balance. Because it works.

    Very few games succeed outside of that. Some games coming soon may finally break that meta, but ESO is not one of them. ZoSs inability to balance basically throws that trinity out the window but does nothing to compensate.
    Edited by deepseamk20b14_ESO on October 12, 2017 12:40AM
    Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!
  • Subversus
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    @LegendaryMage
    First of all, no hard feelings. You're a great player in my opinion, but I have to put this out here.

    I do agree with you on the fact that heavy undeath bloodspawn builds are strong and even borderline OP if played right. That is the case for every class except stamdk which just lacks the tools nowadays.

    However, calling people out on using shield ult and whatnot as crutches shouldn't come from the player that is camping mines and atro on a sorc or permacloaking/spamming rolldodges on a heavy stamblade (again, no offense). Those play styles are just as bad (if not a little worse or maybe a little better) as the one you pointed out.

    Undeath is a crazy OP passive, and most likely the one thing that is carrying this build in particular, but that is also a very strong passive on shieldstacking builds, let's not forget that. :P

    Incap can be spammed, that is true, but so can the atro, to a certain degree, dawnbreaker or 2h ult. Incap is obviously the odd one out as it does a bit too much for its cost, and I agree that it needs a nerf, but it's not THAT superior to any other ultimate.

    The build I believe we are talking about (jeff's build) is also not using any dedicated heavy armor sets; it's using a medium set and a crafted set. Now yes, the crafted set is heavy and bloodspawn is still an issue, but I strongly believe the game has moved past the whole "op heavy sets" by now.

    I do agree that defile is crazy OP (in conjunction with CP it's what basically carries certain classes like stamplars).

    Also, regarding your final statement where you discredit and say that anyone who plays such a build is not actually any good: I urge you to reconsider; you know very well that it's not true. I won't go into naming anyone, I'll just leave you to ponder on that statement for a bit. I know I am not the greatest stamblade to talk about this, but I have this other stamblade in mind who I'm pretty sure was winning against all kinds of classes long before he ever switched to sword and board. He also plays other classes like stamplar or stamdk, duels which I'm sure know the outcome of :P
    Edited by Subversus on October 12, 2017 2:41PM
  • LegendaryMage
    LegendaryMage
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    Subversus wrote: »
    @LegendaryMage
    First of all, no hard feelings. You're a great player in my opinion, but I have to put this out here.

    I do agree with you on the fact that heavy undeath bloodspawn builds are strong and even borderline OP if played right. That is the case for every class except stamdk which just lacks the tools nowadays.

    However, calling people out on using shield ult and whatnot as crutches shouldn't come from the player that is camping mines and atro on a sorc or permacloaking/spamming rolldodges on a heavy stamblade (again, no offense). Those play styles are just as bad (if not a little worse or maybe a little better) as the one you pointed out.

    Undeath is a crazy OP passive, and most likely the one thing that is carrying this build in particular, but that is also a very strong passive on shieldstacking builds, let's not forget that. :P

    Incap can be spammed, that is true, but so can the atro, to a certain degree, dawnbreaker or 2h ult. Incap is obviously the odd one out as it does a bit too much for its cost, and I agree that it needs a nerf, but it's not THAT superior to any other ultimate.

    The build I believe we are talking about (jeff's build) is also not using any dedicated heavy armor sets; it's using a medium set and a crafted set. Now yes, the crafted set is heavy and bloodspawn is still an issue, but I strongly believe the game has moved past the whole "op heavy sets" by now.

    I do agree that defile is crazy OP (in conjunction with CP it's what basically carries certain classes like stamplars).

    Also, regarding your final statement where you discredit and say that anyone who plays such a build is not actually any good: I urge you to reconsider; you know very well that it's not true. I won't go into naming anyone, I'll just leave you to ponder on that statement for a bit. I know I am not the greatest stamblade to talk about this, but I have this other stamblade in mind who I'm pretty sure was winning against all kinds of classes long before he ever switched to sword and board. He also plays other classes like stamplar or stamdk, duels which I'm sure know the outcome of :P

    @Subversus No hard feelings at all, we can discuss anything you want. :)

    I play atro/mines because sorc has no other tools to deal with stam builds, it's a sitting duck against competent players. Whoever tells you otherwise either didn't play sorc, or hasn't fought competent opponents.

    Also, having dueled many sorcs on all of my stam builds over the year(s), I can only recall losing once or twice to a pet dueling build on a stam build, all other fights were straight up easy for me to win vs sorcs. Mines or no mines. They run out of magicka quickly (no harness to fuel it), they try to use resto heavies that you simply block and they're both out of juice and ideas on what to do next.

    All you have to do is be a heavy armor setup in that duel so that you don't get killed while rolling through (all of) them, which is what I always do just for the lols. ;)

    Jeff is a great player, but if he was as good as you say, then how come we're 5:0 on stamplar vs stamplar? :pensive:

    My judgment of duels is 100% realistic because I have no class bias (have dueled with all classes except warden) and I've probably dueled more players than any of you, having been dueling since the launch of the game and keeping the dueling scene active on PC EU.

    I understand that you play a similar NB build and that's fine, anyone is free to play whatever they want to, I'm just telling you what's OP and why. I still stand behind what I previously said. But I'd also like to add that in my opinion bloodspawn is much stronger in duels than undeath, because constant 6k+ resistances + additional ulty sinergyzes with the NB a lot better than other classes.
    Edited by LegendaryMage on October 12, 2017 7:24PM
  • LegendaryMage
    LegendaryMage
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    @Subversus btw I forgot to add that atronach is a shell of what it used to be. It can be killed with incap in no time, and atro costs 170 while incap costs 70, so automatically the NB has over a 2x ulty advantage in that fight, and that's significant.

    Also, the reason why I can deal with such builds is because I'm playing a very evasive sorc setup myself, with lots of dodges and no stamina issues, so that misses me often, but I can tell you that when it doesn't, it hurts like hell and there is no better damaging ultimate in the game other than incap, if you can land it.

    And finally, in our stam nb vs stam nb duels, I dueled you without cloak (and on an open world setup), so let's be fair here. :P
  • OdinForge
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    @Subversus btw I forgot to add that atronach is a shell of what it used to be. It can be killed with incap in no time, and atro costs 170 while incap costs 70, so automatically the NB has over a 2x ulty advantage in that fight, and that's significant.

    Also, the reason why I can deal with such builds is because I'm playing a very evasive sorc setup myself, with lots of dodges and no stamina issues, so that misses me often, but I can tell you that when it doesn't, it hurts like hell and there is no better damaging ultimate in the game other than incap, if you can land it.

    And finally, in our stam nb vs stam nb duels, I dueled you without cloak (and on an open world setup), so let's be fair here. :P

    Unrelated to the topic of magsorc vs stamnb, RIP anyone who gets floppy fished by incap, such a terrible bug. Doesn't matter how much resources you have, you cannot CC break it properly and just die.

    That bug is carrying many a stamnb right now.
    The Age of Wrobel.
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