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Shuffle Skill is going to be locked under Medium Armor - PVP

  • LegendaryMage
    LegendaryMage
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    OdinForge wrote: »
    @Subversus btw I forgot to add that atronach is a shell of what it used to be. It can be killed with incap in no time, and atro costs 170 while incap costs 70, so automatically the NB has over a 2x ulty advantage in that fight, and that's significant.

    Also, the reason why I can deal with such builds is because I'm playing a very evasive sorc setup myself, with lots of dodges and no stamina issues, so that misses me often, but I can tell you that when it doesn't, it hurts like hell and there is no better damaging ultimate in the game other than incap, if you can land it.

    And finally, in our stam nb vs stam nb duels, I dueled you without cloak (and on an open world setup), so let's be fair here. :P

    Unrelated to the topic of magsorc vs stamnb, RIP anyone who gets floppy fished by incap, such a terrible bug. Doesn't matter how much resources you have, you cannot CC break it properly and just die.

    That bug is carrying many a stamnb right now.

    For me personally it's annoying that the game doesn't register quickly enough after you breakfree and dodge away, surprise attack still hits you even though it looks like it missed on your screen. This punishes good players who are playing well, not only do they achieve nothing, but also waste a GCD and some extra stamina for nothing.
    Patiently waiting for Ashes of Creation, make sure you check it out!

    MMO & RPG Guides \ Youtube

    @LegendaryMage - GM of Colosseum Dueling Guild PC EU.
  • Subversus
    Subversus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Subversus btw I forgot to add that atronach is a shell of what it used to be. It can be killed with incap in no time, and atro costs 170 while incap costs 70, so automatically the NB has over a 2x ulty advantage in that fight, and that's significant.

    Also, the reason why I can deal with such builds is because I'm playing a very evasive sorc setup myself, with lots of dodges and no stamina issues, so that misses me often, but I can tell you that when it doesn't, it hurts like hell and there is no better damaging ultimate in the game other than incap, if you can land it.

    And finally, in our stam nb vs stam nb duels, I dueled you without cloak (and on an open world setup), so let's be fair here. :P

    Fair points. I won't go deeper into this as I still do agree with you on most if not all of your opinions regarding heavy armor duel builds (mag or stam) so there's really no solid argument I can make against it that doesn't go against my own opinions as well.

    I won't talk any more about your duels vs Jeff or anyone else for that matter either, since all of what I said was based off what I heard and not from me actually being there; no reason to try and open up old wounds with statements that might very well not be true from my side.

    Regarding the duels we had nb vs nb, I'm not sure I recall you not using cloak :O no hard feelings though, I completely understand that the build you were using is an open world build and the one I was using was a 100% dedicated duel build.

    I'll just go ahead and end this duel talk (at least from my side); duels are very obviously broken in the current iteration of the game. Until it gets better, I for one am for sure not going to focus as much as I once did on them (or ESO as a whole for that matter). Much like the old times when stamdk was broken OP (example) that bug has now spread to other classes and it's much more widespread now - be it death stroke (yeah, mag morph too for reasons I'm sure you're aware of :/), tree ult, defile (oh my lord defile drives me crazy), mines, different item sets or passives or whatever else. We sure do need a little bit of that soft caps treatment right now :/

    Finally, I'm extremely sure that duels should never be a factor when it comes to actual game balance: take the (let's call it as such for now :D ) Jeff build - it sure is great in duels, if played right (many a player have tried, many have failed), but it's what it is: a duel build. There are classes far more potent that are not only crazy in duels - they're crazy in open world too. That just further shows how broken the game is right now, and that is what's sad in the end.
  • Subversus
    Subversus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rip
    Edited by Subversus on October 12, 2017 8:54PM
  • LegendaryMage
    LegendaryMage
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Subversus wrote: »
    @Subversus btw I forgot to add that atronach is a shell of what it used to be. It can be killed with incap in no time, and atro costs 170 while incap costs 70, so automatically the NB has over a 2x ulty advantage in that fight, and that's significant.

    Also, the reason why I can deal with such builds is because I'm playing a very evasive sorc setup myself, with lots of dodges and no stamina issues, so that misses me often, but I can tell you that when it doesn't, it hurts like hell and there is no better damaging ultimate in the game other than incap, if you can land it.

    And finally, in our stam nb vs stam nb duels, I dueled you without cloak (and on an open world setup), so let's be fair here. :P

    Fair points. I won't go deeper into this as I still do agree with you on most if not all of your opinions regarding heavy armor duel builds (mag or stam) so there's really no solid argument I can make against it that doesn't go against my own opinions as well.

    I won't talk any more about your duels vs Jeff or anyone else for that matter either, since all of what I said was based off what I heard and not from me actually being there; no reason to try and open up old wounds with statements that might very well not be true from my side.

    Regarding the duels we had nb vs nb, I'm not sure I recall you not using cloak :O no hard feelings though, I completely understand that the build you were using is an open world build and the one I was using was a 100% dedicated duel build.

    I'll just go ahead and end this duel talk (at least from my side); duels are very obviously broken in the current iteration of the game. Until it gets better, I for one am for sure not going to focus as much as I once did on them (or ESO as a whole for that matter). Much like the old times when stamdk was broken OP (example) that bug has now spread to other classes and it's much more widespread now - be it death stroke (yeah, mag morph too for reasons I'm sure you're aware of :/), tree ult, defile (oh my lord defile drives me crazy), mines, different item sets or passives or whatever else. We sure do need a little bit of that soft caps treatment right now :/

    Finally, I'm extremely sure that duels should never be a factor when it comes to actual game balance: take the (let's call it as such for now :D ) Jeff build - it sure is great in duels, if played right (many a player have tried, many have failed), but it's what it is: a duel build. There are classes far more potent that are not only crazy in duels - they're crazy in open world too. That just further shows how broken the game is right now, and that is what's sad in the end.

    I agree. It's pointless to balance a game when considering specialized dueling builds. I can come on a pet sorc and obliterate everything in my path quite easily but it's no fun nor is it productive in any way (won't improve you as a player).

    As I said, don't get me wrong, Jeff is not a bad player at all, but from what I've seen (only the heavy stam nb dueling build) I don't have any reasons to believe that he's just as good on any other class.

    As for our other duels (sorc vs nb), it goes both ways, we both can kill each other but he's stopping the fights way too often for my taste, usually complains that it lasts too long, while I think he gets discouraged when he can't get an easy kill and is slowly going out of resources (or low hp). This is why I don't challenge him to duels anymore, I can't bother to duel players who stop duels when they're in trouble and then blame it on their opponent. This is why I don't respect him very much as a dueler/player, bad sportsmanship.

    This is why I can't allow such players to balance tournaments and send me complaints about their builds being crippled and what not. I've been dueling for way too long to smell a setup that's not quite balanced.

    You see, that type of a build is only semi-possible with other classes. You can get the tankiness and sustain parts, but you can never get the burst and raw damage that NB brings to the table. I personally think that heavy NB dueling build (apart from pet sorc) is the strongest possible dueling build in the game as of now. I'd give pet sorc a slight edge if played by a really skilled sorcerer, but for all other stam setups - heavy NB takes it.

    The reason why NB can get away with this better than other classes, is because incap can be used very often with bloodspawn, and the class just has better dps overall (surprise attack (nb) > jabs (templar) > heroic slash (dk) > wrecking blow (sorc)). This allows NBs to pressure opponents easier than other classes.

    I have to say that possibly surprise attack is a little out of tune too. One cast gives you shadow resistance buffs to yourself, debuffs the opponent and does good damage (higher than any s/b skill). Jabs give wpn crit (kinda pointless since you can get it from a potion easily) and other than that, dk and sorc are screwed. :)

    edit: As for the game's balance comments you made. Well, let's just say that I'm playing TES Legends as I'm writing this. ;)
    Edited by LegendaryMage on October 12, 2017 9:23PM
    Patiently waiting for Ashes of Creation, make sure you check it out!

    MMO & RPG Guides \ Youtube

    @LegendaryMage - GM of Colosseum Dueling Guild PC EU.
  • Ragnaroek93
    Ragnaroek93
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    ✭✭
    Subversus wrote: »
    @Subversus btw I forgot to add that atronach is a shell of what it used to be. It can be killed with incap in no time, and atro costs 170 while incap costs 70, so automatically the NB has over a 2x ulty advantage in that fight, and that's significant.

    Also, the reason why I can deal with such builds is because I'm playing a very evasive sorc setup myself, with lots of dodges and no stamina issues, so that misses me often, but I can tell you that when it doesn't, it hurts like hell and there is no better damaging ultimate in the game other than incap, if you can land it.

    And finally, in our stam nb vs stam nb duels, I dueled you without cloak (and on an open world setup), so let's be fair here. :P

    Fair points. I won't go deeper into this as I still do agree with you on most if not all of your opinions regarding heavy armor duel builds (mag or stam) so there's really no solid argument I can make against it that doesn't go against my own opinions as well.

    I won't talk any more about your duels vs Jeff or anyone else for that matter either, since all of what I said was based off what I heard and not from me actually being there; no reason to try and open up old wounds with statements that might very well not be true from my side.

    Regarding the duels we had nb vs nb, I'm not sure I recall you not using cloak :O no hard feelings though, I completely understand that the build you were using is an open world build and the one I was using was a 100% dedicated duel build.

    I'll just go ahead and end this duel talk (at least from my side); duels are very obviously broken in the current iteration of the game. Until it gets better, I for one am for sure not going to focus as much as I once did on them (or ESO as a whole for that matter). Much like the old times when stamdk was broken OP (example) that bug has now spread to other classes and it's much more widespread now - be it death stroke (yeah, mag morph too for reasons I'm sure you're aware of :/), tree ult, defile (oh my lord defile drives me crazy), mines, different item sets or passives or whatever else. We sure do need a little bit of that soft caps treatment right now :/

    Finally, I'm extremely sure that duels should never be a factor when it comes to actual game balance: take the (let's call it as such for now :D ) Jeff build - it sure is great in duels, if played right (many a player have tried, many have failed), but it's what it is: a duel build. There are classes far more potent that are not only crazy in duels - they're crazy in open world too. That just further shows how broken the game is right now, and that is what's sad in the end.

    You see, that type of a build is only semi-possible with other classes. You can get the tankiness and sustain parts, but you can never get the burst and raw damage that NB brings to the table. I personally think that heavy NB dueling build (apart from pet sorc) is the strongest possible dueling build in the game as of now. I'd give pet sorc a slight edge if played by a really skilled sorcerer, but for all other stam setups - heavy NB takes it.

    The reason why NB can get away with this better than other classes, is because incap can be used very often with bloodspawn, and the class just has better dps overall (surprise attack (nb) > jabs (templar) > heroic slash (dk) > wrecking blow (sorc)). This allows NBs to pressure opponents easier than other classes.

    I have to say that possibly surprise attack is a little out of tune too. One cast gives you shadow resistance buffs to yourself, debuffs the opponent and does good damage (higher than any s/b skill). Jabs give wpn crit (kinda pointless since you can get it from a potion easily) and other than that, dk and sorc are screwed. :)

    edit: As for the game's balance comments you made. Well, let's just say that I'm playing TES Legends as I'm writing this. ;)

    Some patches ago I would agree but right now I think that every magicka class, stamwarden and stamsorc can compete with stamnb very well, even if the stamnb uses a heavy armor duel build which get nerfed next patch anyways (but I have to admit that a heavy armor stamnb is the most dangerous stam class for a magicka sorc).

    You can't just compare single skills from classes and compare it with other skills, for example surprise attack gives a resistance buff, that's right, but nightblades already get this from Shade, Fear and Cloak so the resistance buff from Surprise Attack is pointless. Heroic Slash deals less damage but gives more in total (minor maim, a snare, still good damage and ultregen), jabs are undodgeable, have more range, are aoe and give a crit buff (which I lack on stamblade), cliffracer is ranged, undodgeable and deals more damage. The only thing which I find too strong on nb is cloak if the opponent plays a projectile build or doesn't have a place for an useful aoe skill (but debating about that is pointless at the moment because in the current state of med armor you lack the tools to play without cloak).

    The weakness of stamblade is that the class is very squishy (some patches ago you were able to bypass that weakness because of how op heavy armor was, right now this isn't the case anymore - now you have to build for very high sustain because you are forced to roll and cloak a lot), doesn't have a class based dot, no reliable perma slow (that's probably the reason why eternal hunt is so popular on nightblades, even if you lose a lot of damage by using it) and not much group utility. If you nerf Incap and/or Surprise Attack you would need to give the class something else, otherwise it would be a dead class - not dangerous in terms of burst and not good in group utility too.
  • LegendaryMage
    LegendaryMage
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Subversus wrote: »
    @Subversus btw I forgot to add that atronach is a shell of what it used to be. It can be killed with incap in no time, and atro costs 170 while incap costs 70, so automatically the NB has over a 2x ulty advantage in that fight, and that's significant.

    Also, the reason why I can deal with such builds is because I'm playing a very evasive sorc setup myself, with lots of dodges and no stamina issues, so that misses me often, but I can tell you that when it doesn't, it hurts like hell and there is no better damaging ultimate in the game other than incap, if you can land it.

    And finally, in our stam nb vs stam nb duels, I dueled you without cloak (and on an open world setup), so let's be fair here. :P

    Fair points. I won't go deeper into this as I still do agree with you on most if not all of your opinions regarding heavy armor duel builds (mag or stam) so there's really no solid argument I can make against it that doesn't go against my own opinions as well.

    I won't talk any more about your duels vs Jeff or anyone else for that matter either, since all of what I said was based off what I heard and not from me actually being there; no reason to try and open up old wounds with statements that might very well not be true from my side.

    Regarding the duels we had nb vs nb, I'm not sure I recall you not using cloak :O no hard feelings though, I completely understand that the build you were using is an open world build and the one I was using was a 100% dedicated duel build.

    I'll just go ahead and end this duel talk (at least from my side); duels are very obviously broken in the current iteration of the game. Until it gets better, I for one am for sure not going to focus as much as I once did on them (or ESO as a whole for that matter). Much like the old times when stamdk was broken OP (example) that bug has now spread to other classes and it's much more widespread now - be it death stroke (yeah, mag morph too for reasons I'm sure you're aware of :/), tree ult, defile (oh my lord defile drives me crazy), mines, different item sets or passives or whatever else. We sure do need a little bit of that soft caps treatment right now :/

    Finally, I'm extremely sure that duels should never be a factor when it comes to actual game balance: take the (let's call it as such for now :D ) Jeff build - it sure is great in duels, if played right (many a player have tried, many have failed), but it's what it is: a duel build. There are classes far more potent that are not only crazy in duels - they're crazy in open world too. That just further shows how broken the game is right now, and that is what's sad in the end.

    You see, that type of a build is only semi-possible with other classes. You can get the tankiness and sustain parts, but you can never get the burst and raw damage that NB brings to the table. I personally think that heavy NB dueling build (apart from pet sorc) is the strongest possible dueling build in the game as of now. I'd give pet sorc a slight edge if played by a really skilled sorcerer, but for all other stam setups - heavy NB takes it.

    The reason why NB can get away with this better than other classes, is because incap can be used very often with bloodspawn, and the class just has better dps overall (surprise attack (nb) > jabs (templar) > heroic slash (dk) > wrecking blow (sorc)). This allows NBs to pressure opponents easier than other classes.

    I have to say that possibly surprise attack is a little out of tune too. One cast gives you shadow resistance buffs to yourself, debuffs the opponent and does good damage (higher than any s/b skill). Jabs give wpn crit (kinda pointless since you can get it from a potion easily) and other than that, dk and sorc are screwed. :)

    edit: As for the game's balance comments you made. Well, let's just say that I'm playing TES Legends as I'm writing this. ;)

    Some patches ago I would agree but right now I think that every magicka class, stamwarden and stamsorc can compete with stamnb very well, even if the stamnb uses a heavy armor duel build which get nerfed next patch anyways (but I have to admit that a heavy armor stamnb is the most dangerous stam class for a magicka sorc).

    You can't just compare single skills from classes and compare it with other skills, for example surprise attack gives a resistance buff, that's right, but nightblades already get this from Shade, Fear and Cloak so the resistance buff from Surprise Attack is pointless. Heroic Slash deals less damage but gives more in total (minor maim, a snare, still good damage and ultregen), jabs are undodgeable, have more range, are aoe and give a crit buff (which I lack on stamblade), cliffracer is ranged, undodgeable and deals more damage. The only thing which I find too strong on nb is cloak if the opponent plays a projectile build or doesn't have a place for an useful aoe skill (but debating about that is pointless at the moment because in the current state of med armor you lack the tools to play without cloak).

    The weakness of stamblade is that the class is very squishy (some patches ago you were able to bypass that weakness because of how op heavy armor was, right now this isn't the case anymore - now you have to build for very high sustain because you are forced to roll and cloak a lot), doesn't have a class based dot, no reliable perma slow (that's probably the reason why eternal hunt is so popular on nightblades, even if you lose a lot of damage by using it) and not much group utility. If you nerf Incap and/or Surprise Attack you would need to give the class something else, otherwise it would be a dead class - not dangerous in terms of burst and not good in group utility too.

    i kid you not all this time while i was on this page reading this reply, i was trying to fix my broken left shift button that's preventing me to sprint in titanfall 2. that's how much i'm concerned with eso's balance as of now. i'd put a smiley now too but it doesn't work, need to restart.

    catch you laterz bud, hf 'smiley'
    Edited by LegendaryMage on October 19, 2017 1:18AM
    Patiently waiting for Ashes of Creation, make sure you check it out!

    MMO & RPG Guides \ Youtube

    @LegendaryMage - GM of Colosseum Dueling Guild PC EU.
  • amir412
    amir412
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Subversus wrote: »
    @Subversus btw I forgot to add that atronach is a shell of what it used to be. It can be killed with incap in no time, and atro costs 170 while incap costs 70, so automatically the NB has over a 2x ulty advantage in that fight, and that's significant.

    Also, the reason why I can deal with such builds is because I'm playing a very evasive sorc setup myself, with lots of dodges and no stamina issues, so that misses me often, but I can tell you that when it doesn't, it hurts like hell and there is no better damaging ultimate in the game other than incap, if you can land it.

    And finally, in our stam nb vs stam nb duels, I dueled you without cloak (and on an open world setup), so let's be fair here. :P

    Fair points. I won't go deeper into this as I still do agree with you on most if not all of your opinions regarding heavy armor duel builds (mag or stam) so there's really no solid argument I can make against it that doesn't go against my own opinions as well.

    I won't talk any more about your duels vs Jeff or anyone else for that matter either, since all of what I said was based off what I heard and not from me actually being there; no reason to try and open up old wounds with statements that might very well not be true from my side.

    Regarding the duels we had nb vs nb, I'm not sure I recall you not using cloak :O no hard feelings though, I completely understand that the build you were using is an open world build and the one I was using was a 100% dedicated duel build.

    I'll just go ahead and end this duel talk (at least from my side); duels are very obviously broken in the current iteration of the game. Until it gets better, I for one am for sure not going to focus as much as I once did on them (or ESO as a whole for that matter). Much like the old times when stamdk was broken OP (example) that bug has now spread to other classes and it's much more widespread now - be it death stroke (yeah, mag morph too for reasons I'm sure you're aware of :/), tree ult, defile (oh my lord defile drives me crazy), mines, different item sets or passives or whatever else. We sure do need a little bit of that soft caps treatment right now :/

    Finally, I'm extremely sure that duels should never be a factor when it comes to actual game balance: take the (let's call it as such for now :D ) Jeff build - it sure is great in duels, if played right (many a player have tried, many have failed), but it's what it is: a duel build. There are classes far more potent that are not only crazy in duels - they're crazy in open world too. That just further shows how broken the game is right now, and that is what's sad in the end.

    You see, that type of a build is only semi-possible with other classes. You can get the tankiness and sustain parts, but you can never get the burst and raw damage that NB brings to the table. I personally think that heavy NB dueling build (apart from pet sorc) is the strongest possible dueling build in the game as of now. I'd give pet sorc a slight edge if played by a really skilled sorcerer, but for all other stam setups - heavy NB takes it.

    The reason why NB can get away with this better than other classes, is because incap can be used very often with bloodspawn, and the class just has better dps overall (surprise attack (nb) > jabs (templar) > heroic slash (dk) > wrecking blow (sorc)). This allows NBs to pressure opponents easier than other classes.

    I have to say that possibly surprise attack is a little out of tune too. One cast gives you shadow resistance buffs to yourself, debuffs the opponent and does good damage (higher than any s/b skill). Jabs give wpn crit (kinda pointless since you can get it from a potion easily) and other than that, dk and sorc are screwed. :)

    edit: As for the game's balance comments you made. Well, let's just say that I'm playing TES Legends as I'm writing this. ;)

    Some patches ago I would agree but right now I think that every magicka class, stamwarden and stamsorc can compete with stamnb very well, even if the stamnb uses a heavy armor duel build which get nerfed next patch anyways (but I have to admit that a heavy armor stamnb is the most dangerous stam class for a magicka sorc).

    You can't just compare single skills from classes and compare it with other skills, for example surprise attack gives a resistance buff, that's right, but nightblades already get this from Shade, Fear and Cloak so the resistance buff from Surprise Attack is pointless. Heroic Slash deals less damage but gives more in total (minor maim, a snare, still good damage and ultregen), jabs are undodgeable, have more range, are aoe and give a crit buff (which I lack on stamblade), cliffracer is ranged, undodgeable and deals more damage. The only thing which I find too strong on nb is cloak if the opponent plays a projectile build or doesn't have a place for an useful aoe skill (but debating about that is pointless at the moment because in the current state of med armor you lack the tools to play without cloak).

    The weakness of stamblade is that the class is very squishy (some patches ago you were able to bypass that weakness because of how op heavy armor was, right now this isn't the case anymore - now you have to build for very high sustain because you are forced to roll and cloak a lot), doesn't have a class based dot, no reliable perma slow (that's probably the reason why eternal hunt is so popular on nightblades, even if you lose a lot of damage by using it) and not much group utility. If you nerf Incap and/or Surprise Attack you would need to give the class something else, otherwise it would be a dead class - not dangerous in terms of burst and not good in group utility too.

    i kid you not all this time while i was on this page reading this reply, i was trying to fix my broken left shift button that's preventing me to sprint in titanfall 2. that's how much i'm concerned with eso's balance as of now. i'd put a smiley now too but it doesn't work, need to restart.

    catch you laterz bud, hf 'smiley'

    And im trying to deal with enchants RNG on BDO... XD
    Time for us to go, game turning into casual fest and money milking.
    Sad such great players dont give a *** anymore.
    Edited by amir412 on October 19, 2017 7:57AM
    PC | EU | AD |Stam Dk named "-Saidden"| 1020 CP|
    "..A world without fire. Ashen one, is this truly thy wish?.."


  • Subversus
    Subversus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Subversus wrote: »
    @Subversus btw I forgot to add that atronach is a shell of what it used to be. It can be killed with incap in no time, and atro costs 170 while incap costs 70, so automatically the NB has over a 2x ulty advantage in that fight, and that's significant.

    Also, the reason why I can deal with such builds is because I'm playing a very evasive sorc setup myself, with lots of dodges and no stamina issues, so that misses me often, but I can tell you that when it doesn't, it hurts like hell and there is no better damaging ultimate in the game other than incap, if you can land it.

    And finally, in our stam nb vs stam nb duels, I dueled you without cloak (and on an open world setup), so let's be fair here. :P

    Fair points. I won't go deeper into this as I still do agree with you on most if not all of your opinions regarding heavy armor duel builds (mag or stam) so there's really no solid argument I can make against it that doesn't go against my own opinions as well.

    I won't talk any more about your duels vs Jeff or anyone else for that matter either, since all of what I said was based off what I heard and not from me actually being there; no reason to try and open up old wounds with statements that might very well not be true from my side.

    Regarding the duels we had nb vs nb, I'm not sure I recall you not using cloak :O no hard feelings though, I completely understand that the build you were using is an open world build and the one I was using was a 100% dedicated duel build.

    I'll just go ahead and end this duel talk (at least from my side); duels are very obviously broken in the current iteration of the game. Until it gets better, I for one am for sure not going to focus as much as I once did on them (or ESO as a whole for that matter). Much like the old times when stamdk was broken OP (example) that bug has now spread to other classes and it's much more widespread now - be it death stroke (yeah, mag morph too for reasons I'm sure you're aware of :/), tree ult, defile (oh my lord defile drives me crazy), mines, different item sets or passives or whatever else. We sure do need a little bit of that soft caps treatment right now :/

    Finally, I'm extremely sure that duels should never be a factor when it comes to actual game balance: take the (let's call it as such for now :D ) Jeff build - it sure is great in duels, if played right (many a player have tried, many have failed), but it's what it is: a duel build. There are classes far more potent that are not only crazy in duels - they're crazy in open world too. That just further shows how broken the game is right now, and that is what's sad in the end.

    You see, that type of a build is only semi-possible with other classes. You can get the tankiness and sustain parts, but you can never get the burst and raw damage that NB brings to the table. I personally think that heavy NB dueling build (apart from pet sorc) is the strongest possible dueling build in the game as of now. I'd give pet sorc a slight edge if played by a really skilled sorcerer, but for all other stam setups - heavy NB takes it.

    The reason why NB can get away with this better than other classes, is because incap can be used very often with bloodspawn, and the class just has better dps overall (surprise attack (nb) > jabs (templar) > heroic slash (dk) > wrecking blow (sorc)). This allows NBs to pressure opponents easier than other classes.

    I have to say that possibly surprise attack is a little out of tune too. One cast gives you shadow resistance buffs to yourself, debuffs the opponent and does good damage (higher than any s/b skill). Jabs give wpn crit (kinda pointless since you can get it from a potion easily) and other than that, dk and sorc are screwed. :)

    edit: As for the game's balance comments you made. Well, let's just say that I'm playing TES Legends as I'm writing this. ;)

    Some patches ago I would agree but right now I think that every magicka class, stamwarden and stamsorc can compete with stamnb very well, even if the stamnb uses a heavy armor duel build which get nerfed next patch anyways (but I have to admit that a heavy armor stamnb is the most dangerous stam class for a magicka sorc).

    You can't just compare single skills from classes and compare it with other skills, for example surprise attack gives a resistance buff, that's right, but nightblades already get this from Shade, Fear and Cloak so the resistance buff from Surprise Attack is pointless. Heroic Slash deals less damage but gives more in total (minor maim, a snare, still good damage and ultregen), jabs are undodgeable, have more range, are aoe and give a crit buff (which I lack on stamblade), cliffracer is ranged, undodgeable and deals more damage. The only thing which I find too strong on nb is cloak if the opponent plays a projectile build or doesn't have a place for an useful aoe skill (but debating about that is pointless at the moment because in the current state of med armor you lack the tools to play without cloak).

    The weakness of stamblade is that the class is very squishy (some patches ago you were able to bypass that weakness because of how op heavy armor was, right now this isn't the case anymore - now you have to build for very high sustain because you are forced to roll and cloak a lot), doesn't have a class based dot, no reliable perma slow (that's probably the reason why eternal hunt is so popular on nightblades, even if you lose a lot of damage by using it) and not much group utility. If you nerf Incap and/or Surprise Attack you would need to give the class something else, otherwise it would be a dead class - not dangerous in terms of burst and not good in group utility too.

    i kid you not all this time while i was on this page reading this reply, i was trying to fix my broken left shift button that's preventing me to sprint in titanfall 2. that's how much i'm concerned with eso's balance as of now. i'd put a smiley now too but it doesn't work, need to restart.

    catch you laterz bud, hf 'smiley'

    Lmao I was actually thinking of how to dodge this troll I keep getting in my team in SWTOR ranked while I was posting in some thread yesterday
  • Hutch679
    Hutch679
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    Here for the tears :p
  • KingJ
    KingJ
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    amir412 wrote: »
    Subversus wrote: »
    @Subversus btw I forgot to add that atronach is a shell of what it used to be. It can be killed with incap in no time, and atro costs 170 while incap costs 70, so automatically the NB has over a 2x ulty advantage in that fight, and that's significant.

    Also, the reason why I can deal with such builds is because I'm playing a very evasive sorc setup myself, with lots of dodges and no stamina issues, so that misses me often, but I can tell you that when it doesn't, it hurts like hell and there is no better damaging ultimate in the game other than incap, if you can land it.

    And finally, in our stam nb vs stam nb duels, I dueled you without cloak (and on an open world setup), so let's be fair here. :P

    Fair points. I won't go deeper into this as I still do agree with you on most if not all of your opinions regarding heavy armor duel builds (mag or stam) so there's really no solid argument I can make against it that doesn't go against my own opinions as well.

    I won't talk any more about your duels vs Jeff or anyone else for that matter either, since all of what I said was based off what I heard and not from me actually being there; no reason to try and open up old wounds with statements that might very well not be true from my side.

    Regarding the duels we had nb vs nb, I'm not sure I recall you not using cloak :O no hard feelings though, I completely understand that the build you were using is an open world build and the one I was using was a 100% dedicated duel build.

    I'll just go ahead and end this duel talk (at least from my side); duels are very obviously broken in the current iteration of the game. Until it gets better, I for one am for sure not going to focus as much as I once did on them (or ESO as a whole for that matter). Much like the old times when stamdk was broken OP (example) that bug has now spread to other classes and it's much more widespread now - be it death stroke (yeah, mag morph too for reasons I'm sure you're aware of :/), tree ult, defile (oh my lord defile drives me crazy), mines, different item sets or passives or whatever else. We sure do need a little bit of that soft caps treatment right now :/

    Finally, I'm extremely sure that duels should never be a factor when it comes to actual game balance: take the (let's call it as such for now :D ) Jeff build - it sure is great in duels, if played right (many a player have tried, many have failed), but it's what it is: a duel build. There are classes far more potent that are not only crazy in duels - they're crazy in open world too. That just further shows how broken the game is right now, and that is what's sad in the end.

    You see, that type of a build is only semi-possible with other classes. You can get the tankiness and sustain parts, but you can never get the burst and raw damage that NB brings to the table. I personally think that heavy NB dueling build (apart from pet sorc) is the strongest possible dueling build in the game as of now. I'd give pet sorc a slight edge if played by a really skilled sorcerer, but for all other stam setups - heavy NB takes it.

    The reason why NB can get away with this better than other classes, is because incap can be used very often with bloodspawn, and the class just has better dps overall (surprise attack (nb) > jabs (templar) > heroic slash (dk) > wrecking blow (sorc)). This allows NBs to pressure opponents easier than other classes.

    I have to say that possibly surprise attack is a little out of tune too. One cast gives you shadow resistance buffs to yourself, debuffs the opponent and does good damage (higher than any s/b skill). Jabs give wpn crit (kinda pointless since you can get it from a potion easily) and other than that, dk and sorc are screwed. :)

    edit: As for the game's balance comments you made. Well, let's just say that I'm playing TES Legends as I'm writing this. ;)

    Some patches ago I would agree but right now I think that every magicka class, stamwarden and stamsorc can compete with stamnb very well, even if the stamnb uses a heavy armor duel build which get nerfed next patch anyways (but I have to admit that a heavy armor stamnb is the most dangerous stam class for a magicka sorc).

    You can't just compare single skills from classes and compare it with other skills, for example surprise attack gives a resistance buff, that's right, but nightblades already get this from Shade, Fear and Cloak so the resistance buff from Surprise Attack is pointless. Heroic Slash deals less damage but gives more in total (minor maim, a snare, still good damage and ultregen), jabs are undodgeable, have more range, are aoe and give a crit buff (which I lack on stamblade), cliffracer is ranged, undodgeable and deals more damage. The only thing which I find too strong on nb is cloak if the opponent plays a projectile build or doesn't have a place for an useful aoe skill (but debating about that is pointless at the moment because in the current state of med armor you lack the tools to play without cloak).

    The weakness of stamblade is that the class is very squishy (some patches ago you were able to bypass that weakness because of how op heavy armor was, right now this isn't the case anymore - now you have to build for very high sustain because you are forced to roll and cloak a lot), doesn't have a class based dot, no reliable perma slow (that's probably the reason why eternal hunt is so popular on nightblades, even if you lose a lot of damage by using it) and not much group utility. If you nerf Incap and/or Surprise Attack you would need to give the class something else, otherwise it would be a dead class - not dangerous in terms of burst and not good in group utility too.

    i kid you not all this time while i was on this page reading this reply, i was trying to fix my broken left shift button that's preventing me to sprint in titanfall 2. that's how much i'm concerned with eso's balance as of now. i'd put a smiley now too but it doesn't work, need to restart.

    catch you laterz bud, hf 'smiley'

    And im trying to deal with enchants RNG on BDO... XD
    Time for us to go, game turning into casual fest and money milking.
    Sad such great players dont give a *** anymore.
    ESO been like that for a while man.There not gonna fix their game when they can release another mount reskin or new customs.

    BDO fun but gearing is a PNA.RNG to get gear isn't hard but getting the stones to upgrade your gear is a pain.I hope they fix that before console release.
  • Blobsky
    Blobsky
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    amir412 wrote: »
    amir412 wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    I think the change in itself is good.
    I think the timing is bad.

    Should have come earlier and would have made some morrowind changes obsolete.

    The change is good, but the benefits other classes gain from it, is pissing me off.
    I'm not sure stam dk can get more nerfs anymore, they touched everything.

    Completely agree. I don't mind the change either but dk is so slow as it is, if you take away our ability to remove snare we're ***


    How classes deals with Snares, CC in open world

    Stam nb > Cloak
    Stam Sorc > Streak
    Stam Templar > Prufiy
    Stam warden > Major exp wings + 15% less snare passive (lols)
    Stam dk > ??????? Perma block???
    Izaki wrote: »
    Wow guys did you hear that? HEAVY ARMOR NIGHTBLADES ARE OP!!! /sarcasm

    This post is a joke mate.

    Your'e the joke mate, come EU PC.. me and my friends will gladly show u.
    Try legion + ravager + BS / Troll king / 1 kena 1 bs... not that i expect that a casual like u can sustain that , but go ahead.
    If you really want your evasion you can always have a pocket healer with you running gossamer lol.
    Also forward momentum is far better for removing snares than shuffle.

    Also keep in mind stamina is being buffed in other ways... 2h asylum weapons for example. Also incoming destro ult nerf etc.


    Do i look like a player who rely on my group?

    I assume you are taking the *** when you state "nightblade deals with snares with cloak" right? Hell, I started this whole forward momentum trend on MAG nb as it is the only counter
    Yt Channell: Blobsky

    DC EU Nightblade
    Owner of 'The Travelling Merchant' - Craglorn trade guild since near release!
  • Sarjako
    Sarjako
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    11 pages of worthless crying back and forth and people calling each other names. Grow the **** up. Hardly anything worth reading. I went through 3 pages of dribble before skipping to the end and well... it's the SAME HERE AT THE END. ZOS should close down this ***, useless thread.
    XBX1 NA
    Healplar / StamDK-Tank / Stamblade / Magblade
    CP 810
  • amir412
    amir412
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    Sarjako wrote: »
    11 pages of worthless crying back and forth and people calling each other names. Grow the **** up. Hardly anything worth reading. I went through 3 pages of dribble before skipping to the end and well... it's the SAME HERE AT THE END. ZOS should close down this ***, useless thread.

    latest?cb=20160410074419
    PC | EU | AD |Stam Dk named "-Saidden"| 1020 CP|
    "..A world without fire. Ashen one, is this truly thy wish?.."


  • Enslaved
    Enslaved
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    Sarjako wrote: »
    11 pages of worthless crying back and forth and people calling each other names. Grow the **** up. Hardly anything worth reading. I went through 3 pages of dribble before skipping to the end and well... it's the SAME HERE AT THE END. ZOS should close down this ***, useless thread.

    You know, you can always use your time better than
    • reading threads you dislike without will to contribute in a constructive manner
    • QQ about threads you dislike in very same threads while keeping the tone of the thread you just QQed about.
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    Sarjako wrote: »
    ZOS should close down this ***, useless thread.

    You realize you just resurrected a thread already buried 2 months deep in the forums to post that, yes? :smirk:
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