roffl u dks can permablock for a year and complain wings can be spamed all times

just funny (yes i get also such a unkillable permablock mag dk but i rarely play her)

I really dont know what to say about these changes. They are terrible and the person who is responsible for them really has no idea about the class.

The class defence is based on blocking and in non CP most DKs are struggling because there is no block cost reduction. Magicka DKs has no effective gapcloser, now the only good range skill was made mele.

On top of that there are only 7-8 people who are writing in this topic because most players just abounded this class. ZOS you could think that the changes that you did are awesome as the DK community is not so vocal but the real reason for that is that there are only few people who cares for DKs anymore. Now the levelling of alts is so easy that people switch immediately to another class. They are tired to argue with you, ZOS.

krathos wrote: »

I hope everyone here realizes that DKs just got hit the hardest by this Siphoner change. It affects passive abilities (not active skills) and armor sets so dark deal, repentance, etc aren't affected (not that I'm saying they should be).

But what this means is that it does affect battleroar and helping hands. So, the class with the worst sustain just took the brunt of the hit on a sustain nerf yet again.

It also means popular DK sustain sets such as Desert Rose and Syrabane are affected as well.

They really don't understand DK. They really, truly, don't understand this class. Absolute insanity.

WTF? I'f its going to affect Battle Roar... just lol.
Well i guess i got a good reason to stick into BDO more x)
Perhaps next year, we shall rise..

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I good change for wings would be Major Expedition for 5-6 seconds. Plus perhaps some sort of hop effect like dragon leap but without the damage on landing.
.

What about a knockback? I mean, whenever you use yor wings, you jump back, putting you outside melee range. Like a reverse Leap.

Edit: It would make a great synergie with chains

Magicka DKs need reliable gapcloser. A skill similar to the Werewolfs' pounce animation with wings like dragon leap would be amazing.
Now when petrify's range is 8m, vampire will be absolutely mandatory for mDKs. 15m stun + mist form.

This is getting really tiring, I like the brawler setup I like that fights can take more than a few seconds and that if your effected by lag its not insta death.
I really don't know where theyre going with the direction of PVP combat. because on the one hand you have the nerf to the bow last patch where you cant keep a heavy attack loaded, and then the nerf to damage from stealth, and now with the severe nerf to clever alchemist one would think zos is trying to rid the game of ganking.
OK cool fine that's the direction they chose to go, I don't agree with it but it is what it is.
BUT at the same time you have block cost increase, DK survivability nerfed HARD, Templar healing and survivability nerfed HARD, shuffle stripped from heavy users which forces us to use forward momentum thus sacrificing our burst heal, or by going vampire to gain mist and for anyone thinking they could break snare by using cleanse LOL @cost increase.
So it seems zos doesn't want combat to last "too" long, but they don't want it to be at gank speed. I don't like this, the whole reason I use heavy armor, whole reason I main stam dk is because I absolutely hate playing horse rider simulator in cyrodiil. The lag in PVP isnt forgiving as is, with these changes our survivability and sustain will be gutted more than it already is. This is coming from someone who mained a medium stamblade for the first year of my eso career.

DK needs buffs, this thread and others in the PTS and General section have a lot of good ideas that wouldn't break the class to being OP.

@ZOS_Wrobel please reconsider DK. we want to enjoy the game, for me I really enjoy the brawler DK style of play with high survivability and Okayish damage and strong CC. Mag sorc isn't everyones cup of tea, Its not that I don't know how to play mag sorc, its that I don't find that style of gaming fun. I want to be right up in my enemies face, not throwing fireballs from range. I get that some people like the mage style of play, and for some content like PVE I can find that fun but for PVP I like my DK. Please buff our class

Kilandros wrote: »

CP system has ruined combat in this game. It's made an absolute mess of class balance. If they would just revamp the CP system to be passives that improve QoL, then they could actually look at each class, assess what that class needs, and then implement it without worrying about fringe cases where someone dumps all his CP in one area to overbuff something really specific, like block.

Imagine how easy it would be to balance Dragonsblood if CP didn't exist. Then you wouldn't need to give most people a "meh" heal because you're worried about the few that would put 100 pts into Healing received, healing done, and critical healing just to troll people.

CP system forces ZOS to balance around the outlier and fringe cases.

This!

CP gives 20% more resources + 25% reduction to dodge, roll, block and break free (choose what you need), 12% crit and then increased critical damage and healing.

In non CP campaign siege and NPS are very well balanced. In CP campaign they are a joke.

@Elrond87
you lose. simple.
expect to start losing a lot

I do really think they need to remove cp from pvp for at least a month to look at balance then balance a accordingly then see what happens then after testing reintroduce cp. then see whats wrong the balance cp accordingly or rework it entirely.

cp is the biggest problem in this game only way you can have non cp s arenas which will be gone soon and non cp campaigns never have 1 bar they are so dead

lucky_Sage wrote: »

scipionumatia wrote: »

Just tried playing without shuffle, changed rally for forward momentum and then on sNb bar put on green dragons blood. Dragons blood is useless (I know shocker huh?)
Costs waaayyy too much, and since it gives the exact bonuses as my potions that's except for minor vitality I was hoping the heal would be somewhat decent with the minor vitality. It heals for less than a vigor tick and the minor vitality is barely noticeable since my uptime on it was aweful, due to the +4K cost

So I started looking for another skill to take the spot. Went through every skill tree I've got. Nothing else is relevant or even remotely useful. Our class skills are ***. how am I supposed to play with this? Or should I just go play my sorc?

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

I realize you are coming from this from an archer point of view. So the sheer number of other skills that can't be reflected or the number of times wings bugs out and doesn't reflect anything for the cost of 3400 magicka is not on your radar the way it is on a DKs.

Bow builds are about the only thing Wings actually shuts down defensively, and there's about zero chance a mDK getting sniped from max range has of actually catching that player anyway.

The fact that 99% of bow builds in Cyrodiil are reduced to glass cannon NB snipers that can cloak away at the slightest danger you might get near them, and will wait until you are already under pressure from multiple opponents before attacking is an issue that needs to be addressed separately, not by nerfing DKs one defense against them.

While the bulk of my experience is using a Bow. It is also using one on a DK. I have max level mag and stam versions of NB, Sorc, and DK.

However 70% of that is on the Mag and Stam DK. I will openly point out that I do not have as much experience on mag DK as stam DK. Yet I am very aware of the cost, of wings.

Wings was nerfed along a continual line because of how strong it is. The shell that is left is indeed wanting in open world pvp, provided you have several sources of projectiles. The fact of the matter is that you dont need to keep it up, you only need to cast it once you see Snipe/frag incoming.

Wings primary fault lies in the fact that it us too strong vs projectiles while being too costly and also useless vs non projectiles. The fix to wings is to reduce the effectiveness as a pure reflect but to add more benefits to your group as well as to yourself.

yeah but you wont see snipe coming they can get 2 or 3 off before you get hit from a max range nb that can easily kill you before you can react

Bruh..... I dont want to say L2P..... but L2P.

One dodge roll makes all 3 miss.
One cast of Wings, makes all 3 bounce back.
Blocking negates all 3.
Hardened ward can be cast for each.
Coag dragon blood can be cast after each.
Healing Ward can be cast to prevent death.

Each Snipe is 1.1 seconds spaced apart.
You can hear it incoming as soon as the first one launches. Miats addon lets you know 1.1 seconds in advance that they are incoming. Everyone can die to lag, dying to Snipe outside of lag isnt very respectable.

Random idea:
Make "Reflective Plate" the other unused morph of wings a stam morph and remove snares. Reason I suggest this so we can keep rally for our heal and not get snared to death. And no one uses that crappy morph anyway.

Reflective Plate:
This morph now costs stamina. For a brief period after activation, you remove all snares and immobilizations and gain immunity to them for 6 seconds.

Dragon Fire Scale:
Flex your scales, reflecting up to 4 projectiles over 4 seconds. The reflected projectiles deal 20% additional damage to the attacker. Grants Minor Expedition, increasing your Movement Speed for 6 seconds.

NBrookus wrote: »

Stamina already has forward momentum and rapids, both of which you can continue to regen, heal, move and cast skills. Magicka ONLY has mistform, which requires all the warts of being a vamp, zero regen, no healing and no skills. I'm not against buffing stam DKs to give them class snare removal... but magicka needs it more.

Originally, I wanted to say that Dragon Fire Scale should give minor expedition and minor evasion (to add a small dodge to what can't be reflected)- but I didn't want it to seem OP...

...but then I thought about how mDKs only get elusive mist. Which, as you said, gives zero regen and no healing. I thought to myself that it would be awesome if we could get a skill that would give us expedition and allow us to have regen... but that would be OP, right?

...but then I thought "Oh... that's what Warden's wings do."

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

scipionumatia wrote: »

Just tried playing without shuffle, changed rally for forward momentum and then on sNb bar put on green dragons blood. Dragons blood is useless (I know shocker huh?)
Costs waaayyy too much, and since it gives the exact bonuses as my potions that's except for minor vitality I was hoping the heal would be somewhat decent with the minor vitality. It heals for less than a vigor tick and the minor vitality is barely noticeable since my uptime on it was aweful, due to the +4K cost

So I started looking for another skill to take the spot. Went through every skill tree I've got. Nothing else is relevant or even remotely useful. Our class skills are ***. how am I supposed to play with this? Or should I just go play my sorc?

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

I realize you are coming from this from an archer point of view. So the sheer number of other skills that can't be reflected or the number of times wings bugs out and doesn't reflect anything for the cost of 3400 magicka is not on your radar the way it is on a DKs.

Bow builds are about the only thing Wings actually shuts down defensively, and there's about zero chance a mDK getting sniped from max range has of actually catching that player anyway.

The fact that 99% of bow builds in Cyrodiil are reduced to glass cannon NB snipers that can cloak away at the slightest danger you might get near them, and will wait until you are already under pressure from multiple opponents before attacking is an issue that needs to be addressed separately, not by nerfing DKs one defense against them.

While the bulk of my experience is using a Bow. It is also using one on a DK. I have max level mag and stam versions of NB, Sorc, and DK.

However 70% of that is on the Mag and Stam DK. I will openly point out that I do not have as much experience on mag DK as stam DK. Yet I am very aware of the cost, of wings.

Wings was nerfed along a continual line because of how strong it is. The shell that is left is indeed wanting in open world pvp, provided you have several sources of projectiles. The fact of the matter is that you dont need to keep it up, you only need to cast it once you see Snipe/frag incoming.

Wings primary fault lies in the fact that it us too strong vs projectiles while being too costly and also useless vs non projectiles. The fix to wings is to reduce the effectiveness as a pure reflect but to add more benefits to your group as well as to yourself.

yeah but you wont see snipe coming they can get 2 or 3 off before you get hit from a max range nb that can easily kill you before you can react

Bruh..... I dont want to say L2P..... but L2P.

One dodge roll makes all 3 miss.
One cast of Wings, makes all 3 bounce back.
Blocking negates all 3.
Hardened ward can be cast for each.
Coag dragon blood can be cast after each.
Healing Ward can be cast to prevent death.

Each Snipe is 1.1 seconds spaced apart.
You can hear it incoming as soon as the first one launches. Miats addon lets you know 1.1 seconds in advance that they are incoming. Everyone can die to lag, dying to Snipe outside of lag isnt very respectable.

@Toc de Malsvi @lucky_Sage
Yeah, I don't see snipe spam as a threat really but I do still run reflective scale so I may get hit with the first one (i play with my tv on mute a lot, usually only get to play pvp once my sons are in bed and i dont wanna wake them up. if I'm playing with the audio on reduce chance to get hit by snipe by about 20%) but once i see the pillar of light from focused aim or the poison lines coming in those scales go up immediately. besides most people who snipe spam are unskilled and will only do so from the tops of keeps. once that wall goes down their ass is mine.

What i said before is still true, I'm running FoO/evil hunter as a place holder. i actually don't know what else to run that will be remotely beneficial. meanwhile i look over at the Sorc thread and some guy literally asks for a 6th slot because "theres so many good skills and i need more space on my bar" SMDH this is the same class that has an overload bar bahahaha

were *** hahahaha

EDIT: heres the sorc (copy pasta cause i dunno how to forum)


Biro123
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✭
Can I have some extra bar-slots please to fit run-cage in..? Still can't justify taking it over the other 'must-have' skills. At least the old defensive rune could go on the overload bar...

Ideally sorc skill-changes should have been done in a way to provide alternatives to the 'must-haves' to allow for playstyle options.
Edited by Biro123 on September 19, 2017 8:37AM
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scipionumatia wrote: »

What is everyone gonna run on their stam dk bars? I'm scratching my head really have no clue. With shuffle gone, and switching rally to forward momentum there's no other class skills that are relevant? I guess put on FoO? Or evil hunter just to fill the space?

Seriously though what are your stam dk bars gonna look like next patch.

I've been scratching my head for the past two days and... it doesn't look good.
The problem is they are way too many snares in this game and stam classes relies way too much on Rally.

The 3 scenarios, I will test are :

1. Go Forward Momentum and slot Green Dragon Blood (Will need to rethink the whole build to have more magicka for that crapshoot heal)
2. Go Medium and keep bar as is change bars.
3. Go vamp and slot Mist Form.

Either way, it's probably going to end badly and I will probably go and play on my magblade, magsorc or switch my stamDk to magicka.