I hope everyone here realizes that DKs just got hit the hardest by this Siphoner change. It affects passive abilities (not active skills) and armor sets so dark deal, repentance, etc aren't affected (not that I'm saying they should be).
But what this means is that it does affect battleroar and helping hands. So, the class with the worst sustain just took the brunt of the hit on a sustain nerf yet again.
It also means popular DK sustain sets such as Desert Rose and Syrabane are affected as well.
They really don't understand DK. They really, truly, don't understand this class. Absolute insanity.
I hope everyone here realizes that DKs just got hit the hardest by this Siphoner change. It affects passive abilities (not active skills) and armor sets so dark deal, repentance, etc aren't affected (not that I'm saying they should be).
But what this means is that it does affect battleroar and helping hands. So, the class with the worst sustain just took the brunt of the hit on a sustain nerf yet again.
It also means popular DK sustain sets such as Desert Rose and Syrabane are affected as well.
They really don't understand DK. They really, truly, don't understand this class. Absolute insanity.
Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
I good change for wings would be Major Expedition for 5-6 seconds. Plus perhaps some sort of hop effect like dragon leap but without the damage on landing.
.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
CP system has ruined combat in this game. It's made an absolute mess of class balance. If they would just revamp the CP system to be passives that improve QoL, then they could actually look at each class, assess what that class needs, and then implement it without worrying about fringe cases where someone dumps all his CP in one area to overbuff something really specific, like block.
Imagine how easy it would be to balance Dragonsblood if CP didn't exist. Then you wouldn't need to give most people a "meh" heal because you're worried about the few that would put 100 pts into Healing received, healing done, and critical healing just to troll people.
CP system forces ZOS to balance around the outlier and fringe cases.
scipionumatia wrote: »Just tried playing without shuffle, changed rally for forward momentum and then on sNb bar put on green dragons blood. Dragons blood is useless (I know shocker huh?)
Costs waaayyy too much, and since it gives the exact bonuses as my potions that's except for minor vitality I was hoping the heal would be somewhat decent with the minor vitality. It heals for less than a vigor tick and the minor vitality is barely noticeable since my uptime on it was aweful, due to the +4K cost
So I started looking for another skill to take the spot. Went through every skill tree I've got. Nothing else is relevant or even remotely useful. Our class skills are ***. how am I supposed to play with this? Or should I just go play my sorc?
Toc de Malsvi wrote: »I realize you are coming from this from an archer point of view. So the sheer number of other skills that can't be reflected or the number of times wings bugs out and doesn't reflect anything for the cost of 3400 magicka is not on your radar the way it is on a DKs.
Bow builds are about the only thing Wings actually shuts down defensively, and there's about zero chance a mDK getting sniped from max range has of actually catching that player anyway.
The fact that 99% of bow builds in Cyrodiil are reduced to glass cannon NB snipers that can cloak away at the slightest danger you might get near them, and will wait until you are already under pressure from multiple opponents before attacking is an issue that needs to be addressed separately, not by nerfing DKs one defense against them.
While the bulk of my experience is using a Bow. It is also using one on a DK. I have max level mag and stam versions of NB, Sorc, and DK.
However 70% of that is on the Mag and Stam DK. I will openly point out that I do not have as much experience on mag DK as stam DK. Yet I am very aware of the cost, of wings.
Wings was nerfed along a continual line because of how strong it is. The shell that is left is indeed wanting in open world pvp, provided you have several sources of projectiles. The fact of the matter is that you dont need to keep it up, you only need to cast it once you see Snipe/frag incoming.
Wings primary fault lies in the fact that it us too strong vs projectiles while being too costly and also useless vs non projectiles. The fix to wings is to reduce the effectiveness as a pure reflect but to add more benefits to your group as well as to yourself.
Solution: Change Wings to be an AoE Missile Dampening for yourself and nearby allies that reduces the damage of ranged attacks by 35%.
lucky_Sage wrote: »scipionumatia wrote: »Just tried playing without shuffle, changed rally for forward momentum and then on sNb bar put on green dragons blood. Dragons blood is useless (I know shocker huh?)
Costs waaayyy too much, and since it gives the exact bonuses as my potions that's except for minor vitality I was hoping the heal would be somewhat decent with the minor vitality. It heals for less than a vigor tick and the minor vitality is barely noticeable since my uptime on it was aweful, due to the +4K cost
So I started looking for another skill to take the spot. Went through every skill tree I've got. Nothing else is relevant or even remotely useful. Our class skills are ***. how am I supposed to play with this? Or should I just go play my sorc?Toc de Malsvi wrote: »I realize you are coming from this from an archer point of view. So the sheer number of other skills that can't be reflected or the number of times wings bugs out and doesn't reflect anything for the cost of 3400 magicka is not on your radar the way it is on a DKs.
Bow builds are about the only thing Wings actually shuts down defensively, and there's about zero chance a mDK getting sniped from max range has of actually catching that player anyway.
The fact that 99% of bow builds in Cyrodiil are reduced to glass cannon NB snipers that can cloak away at the slightest danger you might get near them, and will wait until you are already under pressure from multiple opponents before attacking is an issue that needs to be addressed separately, not by nerfing DKs one defense against them.
While the bulk of my experience is using a Bow. It is also using one on a DK. I have max level mag and stam versions of NB, Sorc, and DK.
However 70% of that is on the Mag and Stam DK. I will openly point out that I do not have as much experience on mag DK as stam DK. Yet I am very aware of the cost, of wings.
Wings was nerfed along a continual line because of how strong it is. The shell that is left is indeed wanting in open world pvp, provided you have several sources of projectiles. The fact of the matter is that you dont need to keep it up, you only need to cast it once you see Snipe/frag incoming.
Wings primary fault lies in the fact that it us too strong vs projectiles while being too costly and also useless vs non projectiles. The fix to wings is to reduce the effectiveness as a pure reflect but to add more benefits to your group as well as to yourself.
yeah but you wont see snipe coming they can get 2 or 3 off before you get hit from a max range nb that can easily kill you before you can react
Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Cutting off someone's arms so they appricate their feet is a strange approach .
Toc de Malsvi wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »scipionumatia wrote: »Just tried playing without shuffle, changed rally for forward momentum and then on sNb bar put on green dragons blood. Dragons blood is useless (I know shocker huh?)
Costs waaayyy too much, and since it gives the exact bonuses as my potions that's except for minor vitality I was hoping the heal would be somewhat decent with the minor vitality. It heals for less than a vigor tick and the minor vitality is barely noticeable since my uptime on it was aweful, due to the +4K cost
So I started looking for another skill to take the spot. Went through every skill tree I've got. Nothing else is relevant or even remotely useful. Our class skills are ***. how am I supposed to play with this? Or should I just go play my sorc?Toc de Malsvi wrote: »I realize you are coming from this from an archer point of view. So the sheer number of other skills that can't be reflected or the number of times wings bugs out and doesn't reflect anything for the cost of 3400 magicka is not on your radar the way it is on a DKs.
Bow builds are about the only thing Wings actually shuts down defensively, and there's about zero chance a mDK getting sniped from max range has of actually catching that player anyway.
The fact that 99% of bow builds in Cyrodiil are reduced to glass cannon NB snipers that can cloak away at the slightest danger you might get near them, and will wait until you are already under pressure from multiple opponents before attacking is an issue that needs to be addressed separately, not by nerfing DKs one defense against them.
While the bulk of my experience is using a Bow. It is also using one on a DK. I have max level mag and stam versions of NB, Sorc, and DK.
However 70% of that is on the Mag and Stam DK. I will openly point out that I do not have as much experience on mag DK as stam DK. Yet I am very aware of the cost, of wings.
Wings was nerfed along a continual line because of how strong it is. The shell that is left is indeed wanting in open world pvp, provided you have several sources of projectiles. The fact of the matter is that you dont need to keep it up, you only need to cast it once you see Snipe/frag incoming.
Wings primary fault lies in the fact that it us too strong vs projectiles while being too costly and also useless vs non projectiles. The fix to wings is to reduce the effectiveness as a pure reflect but to add more benefits to your group as well as to yourself.
yeah but you wont see snipe coming they can get 2 or 3 off before you get hit from a max range nb that can easily kill you before you can react
Bruh..... I dont want to say L2P..... but L2P.
One dodge roll makes all 3 miss.
One cast of Wings, makes all 3 bounce back.
Blocking negates all 3.
Hardened ward can be cast for each.
Coag dragon blood can be cast after each.
Healing Ward can be cast to prevent death.
Each Snipe is 1.1 seconds spaced apart.
You can hear it incoming as soon as the first one launches. Miats addon lets you know 1.1 seconds in advance that they are incoming. Everyone can die to lag, dying to Snipe outside of lag isnt very respectable.
Stamina already has forward momentum and rapids, both of which you can continue to regen, heal, move and cast skills. Magicka ONLY has mistform, which requires all the warts of being a vamp, zero regen, no healing and no skills. I'm not against buffing stam DKs to give them class snare removal... but magicka needs it more.
Toc de Malsvi wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »scipionumatia wrote: »Just tried playing without shuffle, changed rally for forward momentum and then on sNb bar put on green dragons blood. Dragons blood is useless (I know shocker huh?)
Costs waaayyy too much, and since it gives the exact bonuses as my potions that's except for minor vitality I was hoping the heal would be somewhat decent with the minor vitality. It heals for less than a vigor tick and the minor vitality is barely noticeable since my uptime on it was aweful, due to the +4K cost
So I started looking for another skill to take the spot. Went through every skill tree I've got. Nothing else is relevant or even remotely useful. Our class skills are ***. how am I supposed to play with this? Or should I just go play my sorc?Toc de Malsvi wrote: »I realize you are coming from this from an archer point of view. So the sheer number of other skills that can't be reflected or the number of times wings bugs out and doesn't reflect anything for the cost of 3400 magicka is not on your radar the way it is on a DKs.
Bow builds are about the only thing Wings actually shuts down defensively, and there's about zero chance a mDK getting sniped from max range has of actually catching that player anyway.
The fact that 99% of bow builds in Cyrodiil are reduced to glass cannon NB snipers that can cloak away at the slightest danger you might get near them, and will wait until you are already under pressure from multiple opponents before attacking is an issue that needs to be addressed separately, not by nerfing DKs one defense against them.
While the bulk of my experience is using a Bow. It is also using one on a DK. I have max level mag and stam versions of NB, Sorc, and DK.
However 70% of that is on the Mag and Stam DK. I will openly point out that I do not have as much experience on mag DK as stam DK. Yet I am very aware of the cost, of wings.
Wings was nerfed along a continual line because of how strong it is. The shell that is left is indeed wanting in open world pvp, provided you have several sources of projectiles. The fact of the matter is that you dont need to keep it up, you only need to cast it once you see Snipe/frag incoming.
Wings primary fault lies in the fact that it us too strong vs projectiles while being too costly and also useless vs non projectiles. The fix to wings is to reduce the effectiveness as a pure reflect but to add more benefits to your group as well as to yourself.
yeah but you wont see snipe coming they can get 2 or 3 off before you get hit from a max range nb that can easily kill you before you can react
Bruh..... I dont want to say L2P..... but L2P.
One dodge roll makes all 3 miss.
One cast of Wings, makes all 3 bounce back.
Blocking negates all 3.
Hardened ward can be cast for each.
Coag dragon blood can be cast after each.
Healing Ward can be cast to prevent death.
Each Snipe is 1.1 seconds spaced apart.
You can hear it incoming as soon as the first one launches. Miats addon lets you know 1.1 seconds in advance that they are incoming. Everyone can die to lag, dying to Snipe outside of lag isnt very respectable.
ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »Solution: Change Wings to be an AoE Missile Dampening for yourself and nearby allies that reduces the damage of ranged attacks by 35%.
This would be pretty good IMO...
Just for fun can we also have it negate 35% fall damage if we cast it before jumping off a keep wall? They are wings after all...
scipionumatia wrote: »What is everyone gonna run on their stam dk bars? I'm scratching my head really have no clue. With shuffle gone, and switching rally to forward momentum there's no other class skills that are relevant? I guess put on FoO? Or evil hunter just to fill the space?
Seriously though what are your stam dk bars gonna look like next patch.
Reflective Plate:
This morph now costs stamina. For a brief period after activation, you remove all snares and immobilizations and gain immunity to them for 6 seconds.
Dragon Fire Scale:
Flex your scales, reflecting up to 4 projectiles over 4 seconds. The reflected projectiles deal 20% additional damage to the attacker. Grants Minor Expedition, increasing your Movement Speed for 6 seconds.
Stamina already has forward momentum and rapids, both of which you can continue to regen, heal, move and cast skills. Magicka ONLY has mistform, which requires all the warts of being a vamp, zero regen, no healing and no skills. I'm not against buffing stam DKs to give them class snare removal... but magicka needs it more.