PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Dragonknights

GeorgeBlack

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

Guys and gals. Fear not. I've just received confirmation that DK IS BACK! (aesthetically)

Next crown crates.

I wanna buy these so bad but at the same time I don't wanna pay another cent to zos.
Not after what they did to my class.
or... maybe I will make an exception for the skin

I'd buy the mount. But I won't.

Not buying these stuff is probably the best way to provide your ''feedback'' to zos.
Now that I think about it. You're right.

ppl u need to stop agreeing with me otherwise a meteor might hit the earth

Valencer

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

GaunterODim wrote: »

Dont think that stam dks struggle too much with ressources, but magdks definetely need some help.
A stam dk is my first char and main and having played basicly only magdk before morrowind, I knew immediately that the overkill ressource nerfs would make me have to put my magdk in the garage. Sad about that.

Actually magDK sustain is somewhat buffed in morrowind,especially compared to stamDK, which got a massive nerf from the same changes.
Flat values in battle roar means a 15k stamina magDk and a 50k stamina stamDK will get the SAME returns from battle roar.
But obviously 6k stamina return is gone with 2 or 3 skill for a stamDK, while for a magDK it is half of their stamina bar.
With helping hands,constution and other flat returns magDK sustain is sitting at a better spot.
Only issue is that they now need more magicka sustain, which is easier than stamina sustain honestly, IF you have more than 1500 magicka regen you should be fine.

MagDK usually runs s/b. HA restors stam. Though stam is more valuable to a mag dk than mag is to a stamDK, stam has the better sustain.

MagDk is miles ahead of stamDk in PvP. Im watcing all the stamDk mains slowly disappear as I see more and more almost unkillable magDK players around. They are still minority compared to all the Nbs and sorcs but still, magDK is now the dominant toon in PvP, and stamDK is the more versatile one because obviously stam has more mobility.

For PvE MagDK needs desperate buffs. Maybe an aoe inferno or anything really.
For PvP the last thing I want for MagDk is sustain buffs tho. Not without some serious nerfs to permablocking first.

It kind of blows my mind that people rate stam DK higher than mag DK at this point. Morrowind was basically a big buff to magicka DKs (stamina sustain) and a huge nerf to stamina DKs (healing and stamina sustain).

It's just not even close anymore. These FOTM full sturdy 7th legion stam DK tanks are hard to kill yes, but relatively harmless compared to a magicka DK and mostly crutching on block cost calculation staying as messed up as it is. Even then, a magicka DK can easily be as unkillable, a hell of a lot more dangerous and for the most part has 10x more to offer to group play than a stamina DK ever will.

Playing a sDK in PvP feels like a massive waste of time right now... more than it already did pre-morrowind with the complete lack of group utility it's always had.

Vesper_BR

And I think we should separate the kinds of dks....

A mag dk is a mag, they all looks like the same, but Stam dks aren't that one you guys see tanking the world and trolling zergs in Ciro.... These are tank dks ( called health based in old times.
Stam dks are the ones who try to kill and sometimes use medium armor... These last NEED some love....

When we agroup Stam dks like all are supposed to be tanks we only give zos reasons to nerf us more and more....

Dk tanks need some adjustments to stop being so annoying. Stam Dk "fighters" need more love in PvP since they are the worst Stam class by far...

Correct me if im wrong pls.

krathos

Valencer wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

GaunterODim wrote: »

Dont think that stam dks struggle too much with ressources, but magdks definetely need some help.
A stam dk is my first char and main and having played basicly only magdk before morrowind, I knew immediately that the overkill ressource nerfs would make me have to put my magdk in the garage. Sad about that.

Actually magDK sustain is somewhat buffed in morrowind,especially compared to stamDK, which got a massive nerf from the same changes.
Flat values in battle roar means a 15k stamina magDk and a 50k stamina stamDK will get the SAME returns from battle roar.
But obviously 6k stamina return is gone with 2 or 3 skill for a stamDK, while for a magDK it is half of their stamina bar.
With helping hands,constution and other flat returns magDK sustain is sitting at a better spot.
Only issue is that they now need more magicka sustain, which is easier than stamina sustain honestly, IF you have more than 1500 magicka regen you should be fine.

MagDK usually runs s/b. HA restors stam. Though stam is more valuable to a mag dk than mag is to a stamDK, stam has the better sustain.

MagDk is miles ahead of stamDk in PvP. Im watcing all the stamDk mains slowly disappear as I see more and more almost unkillable magDK players around. They are still minority compared to all the Nbs and sorcs but still, magDK is now the dominant toon in PvP, and stamDK is the more versatile one because obviously stam has more mobility.

For PvE MagDK needs desperate buffs. Maybe an aoe inferno or anything really.
For PvP the last thing I want for MagDk is sustain buffs tho. Not without some serious nerfs to permablocking first.

It kind of blows my mind that people rate stam DK higher than mag DK at this point. Morrowind was basically a big buff to magicka DKs (stamina sustain) and a huge nerf to stamina DKs (healing and stamina sustain).

It's just not even close anymore. These FOTM full sturdy 7th legion stam DK tanks are hard to kill yes, but relatively harmless compared to a magicka DK and mostly crutching on block cost calculation staying as messed up as it is. Even then, a magicka DK can easily be as unkillable, a hell of a lot more dangerous and for the most part has 10x more to offer to group play than a stamina DK ever will.

Playing a sDK in PvP feels like a massive waste of time right now... more than it already did pre-morrowind with the complete lack of group utility it's always had.

@Valencer there's hardly a need to compare which apple is most rotten to begin with. They're both pretty crap right now. I play both and both have ups and downs to each other but both are *** compared to when I play other classes.

Kilandros

Valencer wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

GaunterODim wrote: »

Dont think that stam dks struggle too much with ressources, but magdks definetely need some help.
A stam dk is my first char and main and having played basicly only magdk before morrowind, I knew immediately that the overkill ressource nerfs would make me have to put my magdk in the garage. Sad about that.

Actually magDK sustain is somewhat buffed in morrowind,especially compared to stamDK, which got a massive nerf from the same changes.
Flat values in battle roar means a 15k stamina magDk and a 50k stamina stamDK will get the SAME returns from battle roar.
But obviously 6k stamina return is gone with 2 or 3 skill for a stamDK, while for a magDK it is half of their stamina bar.
With helping hands,constution and other flat returns magDK sustain is sitting at a better spot.
Only issue is that they now need more magicka sustain, which is easier than stamina sustain honestly, IF you have more than 1500 magicka regen you should be fine.

MagDK usually runs s/b. HA restors stam. Though stam is more valuable to a mag dk than mag is to a stamDK, stam has the better sustain.

MagDk is miles ahead of stamDk in PvP. Im watcing all the stamDk mains slowly disappear as I see more and more almost unkillable magDK players around. They are still minority compared to all the Nbs and sorcs but still, magDK is now the dominant toon in PvP, and stamDK is the more versatile one because obviously stam has more mobility.

For PvE MagDK needs desperate buffs. Maybe an aoe inferno or anything really.
For PvP the last thing I want for MagDk is sustain buffs tho. Not without some serious nerfs to permablocking first.

It kind of blows my mind that people rate stam DK higher than mag DK at this point. Morrowind was basically a big buff to magicka DKs (stamina sustain) and a huge nerf to stamina DKs (healing and stamina sustain).

It's just not even close anymore. These FOTM full sturdy 7th legion stam DK tanks are hard to kill yes, but relatively harmless compared to a magicka DK and mostly crutching on block cost calculation staying as messed up as it is. Even then, a magicka DK can easily be as unkillable, a hell of a lot more dangerous and for the most part has 10x more to offer to group play than a stamina DK ever will.

Playing a sDK in PvP feels like a massive waste of time right now... more than it already did pre-morrowind with the complete lack of group utility it's always had.

Magicka DKs took a huge nerf to magicka sustain with Morrowind though. You need to take off the bias gogggles, both got nerfed heavily in Morrowind. Neither have a place in most PvP groups.

Savos_Saren

It's funny- I kind of agree with @Vesper_BR. There's actually three types of DKs:

-StamDK: medium armor
-MagDK: light armor
-TankDK: heavy armor permablock

I think we can all agree that the sustain for both stam and mag DK has been nerfed to the ground. Both of these classes suffered the sustain issue because of the nerf to Battle Roar. Both mag/stam suffers in their higher resource pool.

The only "OP" DK that people are complaining about is the permablock (by use of SnB ultimate) TankDK. Most of the permablock builds are just trolly and they do a good job at tanking unorganized groups in Cyrodiil. The only "broken" permablock build right now is the Seventh Legion build... because it plays too many rolls since it is high damage output while tanking. Because of this build- the whole class suffers and we're getting nerfed to the ground.

In my opinion, after reading all these posts, these few changes could help our class (both stam and mag):

-raise the amount of resources restored from Battle Roar
-give mDK a reliable source of expedition (chains is broken and don't limit them to being a vampire for mist form)
-give stamDK another stamina-based ability (my suggestion would be to change Deep Breath into a stamina ability and change it to "molten earth" for physical damage)
-give mDK a passive that allows for a *slight* execute (similar to the Sorc's Implosion). It only needs to be fire-based since stamDKs already have access to weapon executes.
-even though I don't like the change to Petrify- at least make one of the morphs a stamina-based version for StamDKs
-finally, for the love of all that is holy, #$%& change Flame Of Oblivion back to its initial ability. I don't know how many times this has to be said.

NBrookus

Valencer wrote: »

It kind of blows my mind that people rate stam DK higher than mag DK at this point. Morrowind was basically a big buff to magicka DKs (stamina sustain) and a huge nerf to stamina DKs (healing and stamina sustain).

The stam sustain buff was just as useful to magDKs as the magicka sustain buff was to stam DKs... which is to say not very. Like Krathos said, both are in a rough spot in pvp. Our wings are clipped for sure. Wrobel is clearly not a devotee of Akatosh.

strebor2095

I think a good change for both type of DK would be to give them a passive which reads "whenever a damage over time ability is removed/ends, deal X increasing damage proportional to how long it had left."

I.e., this would do like 200 flame/poison damage if the ability naturally expired, just a flat damage buff for both types of DKs.

Might scale all the way up to like 2000 damage if the ability is removed with 10 seconds or more left on the CD. Ideally, it won't work if you recast the ability - so you can't just spam claw and deal a free 1k extra damage.

But if someone purges all your DoTs at once they take the extra 2-8k damage or whatever.

Ragnarock41

krathos wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

GaunterODim wrote: »

Dont think that stam dks struggle too much with ressources, but magdks definetely need some help.
A stam dk is my first char and main and having played basicly only magdk before morrowind, I knew immediately that the overkill ressource nerfs would make me have to put my magdk in the garage. Sad about that.

Actually magDK sustain is somewhat buffed in morrowind,especially compared to stamDK, which got a massive nerf from the same changes.
Flat values in battle roar means a 15k stamina magDk and a 50k stamina stamDK will get the SAME returns from battle roar.
But obviously 6k stamina return is gone with 2 or 3 skill for a stamDK, while for a magDK it is half of their stamina bar.
With helping hands,constution and other flat returns magDK sustain is sitting at a better spot.
Only issue is that they now need more magicka sustain, which is easier than stamina sustain honestly, IF you have more than 1500 magicka regen you should be fine.

MagDK usually runs s/b. HA restors stam. Though stam is more valuable to a mag dk than mag is to a stamDK, stam has the better sustain.

MagDk is miles ahead of stamDk in PvP. Im watcing all the stamDk mains slowly disappear as I see more and more almost unkillable magDK players around. They are still minority compared to all the Nbs and sorcs but still, magDK is now the dominant toon in PvP, and stamDK is the more versatile one because obviously stam has more mobility.

For PvE MagDK needs desperate buffs. Maybe an aoe inferno or anything really.
For PvP the last thing I want for MagDk is sustain buffs tho. Not without some serious nerfs to permablocking first.

It kind of blows my mind that people rate stam DK higher than mag DK at this point. Morrowind was basically a big buff to magicka DKs (stamina sustain) and a huge nerf to stamina DKs (healing and stamina sustain).

It's just not even close anymore. These FOTM full sturdy 7th legion stam DK tanks are hard to kill yes, but relatively harmless compared to a magicka DK and mostly crutching on block cost calculation staying as messed up as it is. Even then, a magicka DK can easily be as unkillable, a hell of a lot more dangerous and for the most part has 10x more to offer to group play than a stamina DK ever will.

Playing a sDK in PvP feels like a massive waste of time right now... more than it already did pre-morrowind with the complete lack of group utility it's always had.

@Valencer there's hardly a need to compare which apple is most rotten to begin with. They're both pretty crap right now. I play both and both have ups and downs to each other but both are *** compared to when I play other classes.

basically this is the state of Dk. for both mag and stam.
Morrowind only buffed hp based dk tanks, and they were already strong anyways.

Ragnarock41

NBrookus wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

It kind of blows my mind that people rate stam DK higher than mag DK at this point. Morrowind was basically a big buff to magicka DKs (stamina sustain) and a huge nerf to stamina DKs (healing and stamina sustain).

The stam sustain buff was just as useful to magDKs as the magicka sustain buff was to stam DKs... which is to say not very. Like Krathos said, both are in a rough spot in pvp. Our wings are clipped for sure. Wrobel is clearly not a devotee of Akatosh.

Im tired of saying this again and again, stamDK Didnt got buffed in morrowind.
my stamina returns from battle roar LITERALLY HALVED.

Dragath

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

It kind of blows my mind that people rate stam DK higher than mag DK at this point. Morrowind was basically a big buff to magicka DKs (stamina sustain) and a huge nerf to stamina DKs (healing and stamina sustain).

The stam sustain buff was just as useful to magDKs as the magicka sustain buff was to stam DKs... which is to say not very. Like Krathos said, both are in a rough spot in pvp. Our wings are clipped for sure. Wrobel is clearly not a devotee of Akatosh.

Im tired of saying this again and again, stamDK Didnt got buffed in morrowind.
my stamina returns from battle roar LITERALLY HALVED.

he wrote "the magicka sustain buff was to stamdks". he means the increased magicka gain for stamdks through battle roar.

Ragnarock41

Dragath wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

It kind of blows my mind that people rate stam DK higher than mag DK at this point. Morrowind was basically a big buff to magicka DKs (stamina sustain) and a huge nerf to stamina DKs (healing and stamina sustain).

The stam sustain buff was just as useful to magDKs as the magicka sustain buff was to stam DKs... which is to say not very. Like Krathos said, both are in a rough spot in pvp. Our wings are clipped for sure. Wrobel is clearly not a devotee of Akatosh.

Im tired of saying this again and again, stamDK Didnt got buffed in morrowind.
my stamina returns from battle roar LITERALLY HALVED.

he wrote "the magicka sustain buff was to stamdks". he means the increased magicka gain for stamdks through battle roar.

oh.. I see. spending 15 hours in cyrodiil didnt really helped my brain.
The ''increased'' magicka gains means at best I can cast one more igneous shield.
But thanks to zos igneous shield is now %50 less effective, so It ends up like we get the same magicka anyways.

Vesper_BR

Hi there!

Here are my proposal for three skill that are used by dks to get into their oponents, and how i think they would improve magicka dk experience in PvP trying not to unbalance or reduce effectiveness of pve tanking.
Assuming that gap closer aren't used as much in pve, and overral dks are commonly played without it, let me propose some changes and adjusts:




STONEFIST

A) Stonefist - slam enemy with solid Rock dealing X damage and stunning them for 3s (skill base). Range 28m - cost same as live.

A1) Obsidian shard - punch the ground, dealing X magic damage(half or less of skill base) and setting 3 closest enemies off balance in the range and heals alies in around the caster for x amount over 5s. If the target is a player it Doesnt off balance and instead knocks them back . Cost same as skill base - radius 8 metters.

A2) Stone Giant (rename pls)- slam enemy with solid Rock dealing X damage and stunning them for 3s, gives major expedition for 6s and has lower cost. Range 28m.




PETRIFY

B ) Petrify - encase enemy in stone stunning them for 3s. - Range 8m - cost same as cwc and you cant cast it on cc immune targets.

B1) Fossilize (maybe rename it) encase enemy in stone stunning them for 3s, range increased - Range 15m - cost same as cwc, cannot cast on cc immune targets.

B2) Shatering rocks (maybe rename it to defiling rocks) - encase enemy in stone stunning them for 3s, if enemy break free he/she is contamined by the fragments of stones in his veins and receive less healing for the next 5s (major or minor defile). - Range 8m - cost same as live and you can cast it on cc immune targets (for the effect only).



CHAINS

C) Fiery grip - launch a Fiery chain to grasp and pull enemy to you, dealing x fire damage.
Range 22m - cost same as live.

C1) Poisonous Reach - this skills now costs stamina and launch a poisonous chain to grasp and pull enemy to you, dealing x poison damage over x seconds. Range 22m

C2) Extended chains - launch a Fiery chain to grasp and pull enemy to you, dealing x fire damage over x seconds and applying minor breach, reducing enemy physical and spell resistance by 1320, if target cannot be pulled, you're refunded for the hability cost.
Range 22 m - cost same as live.


@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
I will comment below.

Obsidian shard edited****

Dubhliam

Change the Searing Heat passive to:

Casting an Ardent Flame Ability increases the duration of your active Ardent Flame abilities by 1 second. This effect can occur once per cast of those abilities.
Increases the damage of your Fiery Breath, Searing Strike, and Dragonknight Standard abilities by 3%

This means that each of the Ardent Flame abilities can add 1 second to active DoTs ONCE per cast. (5 seconds max bonus duration if ALL Ardent abilities are cast.)
For example: Ult Standard > Burning Embers > Engulfing Flames > Flames of Oblivion > Empowering > Lash.
End result:
Standard of Might + 5 sec
Burning Embers + 4 sec
Engulfing Flames + 3 sec
Flames of Oblivion + 2 sec

Add this effect to the Engulfing Flames morph:

Your Fire Damage attacks deal up to [185 / 190 / 195 / 200]% more damage to enemies with less than 20% Health.

Make Fiery Grip work as it used to: either pull or charge depending on CC immunity. Unrelenting Grip always pulls, Empowering always charges.

Also, add Major Evasion to the Reflective Plate morph.

Insanepirate01

Please please please change FOB and cauterize to an aoe DOT and HOT respectively and bring back the cool animation. This skill is so lacklustre now compared to when it was an aoe even if it's used in a dps rotation. It's so boring to see. That change alone would have me obsessed with my dk again.