PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Dragonknights

krathos

ak_pvp wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

No idea why there is so much drama here, the DK is the most overperforming class in PVP atm next to Sorc.

The changes coming are very positive for the balance of the game

DKs have:
The best CCs
Fire damage which is very OP in PVP
A good enough self heal
Aoe damage
Tankiness
A very OP and cheap ultimate that also CCs in dragon leap
Wings to make battle against mages who identified projectiles almost an auto win

I have a DK and I know how good they are. The changes are very good it's genuinely no fair atm. Why do you think you see them running around everywhere?

-Great! We have CCs to hold people closer to us as they pommel us.
-Fire damage DoTs which are constantly purged.
-"A good enough self heal": it's sad when you describe it as "good enough". How "okayish" of you.
-Everyone has AOE damage
-Everyone can be tanky. Last I checked, my 5l/1m/1h mDK wasn't considered tanky at all...
-Our resource management depends on our ultimate. It's our class-defining ability.... and yet Dragon Leap is buggy as hell.
-Wings? Seriously?!?! Wings that don't reflect a Warden's bird projectile (even though it's not a beam) and don't reflect Force Pulse (which is about to become OP with Asylum weapons). Wings that don't reflect Jesus Beams, Soul Assault, and Meteor (another non-beam exception). Wings that don't reflect certain bow attacks if you use it in conjunction with a heavy bow attack. Those wings?

To add to this, DK no longer has the best CCs. NB has a better hard CC and sorc has higher ranged version of DKs.

Yeah, why have a DK to run talons when a sorc can run encase which has a massive conal and range. Now they have a 28m+ stun that goes through block and dodge roll to focus those pesky healers. Why have a DK in the destro meta when a magnb and magsorc have way better passives to support that game play.

scipionumatia

Just tried playing without shuffle, changed rally for forward momentum and then on sNb bar put on green dragons blood. Dragons blood is useless (I know shocker huh?)
Costs waaayyy too much, and since it gives the exact bonuses as my potions that's except for minor vitality I was hoping the heal would be somewhat decent with the minor vitality. It heals for less than a vigor tick and the minor vitality is barely noticeable since my uptime on it was aweful, due to the +4K cost

So I started looking for another skill to take the spot. Went through every skill tree I've got. Nothing else is relevant or even remotely useful. Our class skills are ***. how am I supposed to play with this? Or should I just go play my sorc?

lucky_Sage

krathos wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

No idea why there is so much drama here, the DK is the most overperforming class in PVP atm next to Sorc.

The changes coming are very positive for the balance of the game

DKs have:
The best CCs
Fire damage which is very OP in PVP
A good enough self heal
Aoe damage
Tankiness
A very OP and cheap ultimate that also CCs in dragon leap
Wings to make battle against mages who identified projectiles almost an auto win

I have a DK and I know how good they are. The changes are very good it's genuinely no fair atm. Why do you think you see them running around everywhere?

It's actually the least played class by a pretty significant margin. Why do you think that is?

Because people like him can't distinguish between 1v1 performance and group, solo, small man. MagDK is fairly good 1v1 but lacks in almost every other pvp capacity. I rarely find other magdk's and when I do find them they're often new players who are running an almost PvE-like build.

kill dk quest is pvp takes so long sorc and nightblade and Templar are done in like 1 fight if I end up near a zerg

lucky_Sage

mb10 wrote: »

No idea why there is so much drama here, the DK is the most overperforming class in PVP atm next to Sorc.

The changes coming are very positive for the balance of the game

DKs have:
The best CCs
Fire damage which is very OP in PVP
A good enough self heal
Aoe damage
Tankiness
A very OP and cheap ultimate that also CCs in dragon leap
Wings to make battle against mages who identified projectiles almost an auto win

I have a DK and I know how good they are. The changes are very good it's genuinely no fair atm. Why do you think you see them running around everywhere?

is this wrobel's personal account or do you just don't know how toa fight a dk at all its easy every class can out sustain them if you get rooted by them witch sorcs and wardens have a better and cheaper one all you do is heavy attack and you face them wow so hard if your a vampire just mistform out of root your not a dk just sustain will be better

Joy_Division

mb10 wrote: »

No idea why there is so much drama here, the DK is the most overperforming class in PVP atm next to Sorc.

The changes coming are very positive for the balance of the game

DKs have:
The best CCs
Fire damage which is very OP in PVP
A good enough self heal
Aoe damage
Tankiness
A very OP and cheap ultimate that also CCs in dragon leap
Wings to make battle against mages who identified projectiles almost an auto win

I have a DK and I know how good they are. The changes are very good it's genuinely no fair atm. Why do you think you see them running around everywhere?

Hi Wrobel!

Kilandros

mb10 wrote: »

No idea why there is so much drama here, the DK is the most overperforming class in PVP atm next to Sorc.

The changes coming are very positive for the balance of the game

DKs have:
The best CCs
Fire damage which is very OP in PVP
A good enough self heal
Aoe damage
Tankiness
A very OP and cheap ultimate that also CCs in dragon leap
Wings to make battle against mages who identified projectiles almost an auto win

I have a DK and I know how good they are. The changes are very good it's genuinely no fair atm. Why do you think you see them running around everywhere?

Hi Eric!

amir412

krathos wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

No idea why there is so much drama here, the DK is the most overperforming class in PVP atm next to Sorc.

The changes coming are very positive for the balance of the game

DKs have:
The best CCs
Fire damage which is very OP in PVP
A good enough self heal
Aoe damage
Tankiness
A very OP and cheap ultimate that also CCs in dragon leap
Wings to make battle against mages who identified projectiles almost an auto win

I have a DK and I know how good they are. The changes are very good it's genuinely no fair atm. Why do you think you see them running around everywhere?

-Great! We have CCs to hold people closer to us as they pommel us.
-Fire damage DoTs which are constantly purged.
-"A good enough self heal": it's sad when you describe it as "good enough". How "okayish" of you.
-Everyone has AOE damage
-Everyone can be tanky. Last I checked, my 5l/1m/1h mDK wasn't considered tanky at all...
-Our resource management depends on our ultimate. It's our class-defining ability.... and yet Dragon Leap is buggy as hell.
-Wings? Seriously?!?! Wings that don't reflect a Warden's bird projectile (even though it's not a beam) and don't reflect Force Pulse (which is about to become OP with Asylum weapons). Wings that don't reflect Jesus Beams, Soul Assault, and Meteor (another non-beam exception). Wings that don't reflect certain bow attacks if you use it in conjunction with a heavy bow attack. Those wings?

To add to this, DK no longer has the best CCs. NB has a better hard CC and sorc has higher ranged version of DKs.

Yeah, why have a DK to run talons when a sorc can run encase which has a massive conal and range. Now they have a 28m+ stun that goes through block and dodge roll to focus those pesky healers. Why have a DK in the destro meta when a magnb and magsorc have way better passives to support that game play.

It's u darius? o.O
#Fighting the magDK nerf war since 2014

Vesper_BR

Any news about tomorrow patch?

krathos

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Any news about tomorrow patch?

None yet. Somehow I remain optimistic. We've never tried to meme our way to victory so maybe this is the tactic that will work.

amir412

Intro for next patch - Stam DK-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVZYb2aosVE

Thats the only broken build that will carry stam DK through cyro...
Prolly the only thing u can kill is mudcrab, "Lets tank till help comes" - Pathetic.
nice job zos! LETS CREATE MORE TANKS

reiverx

That last Vivec campaign on PS4 NA ended with 3 DKs in the top 50.

Unfortunately the only DKs that people notice are those permablockers with guard that waste the time of a full group for 20 minutes. Because of this they are seen as being everywhere and totally OP.

So, I'm taking my mDK out of PVP and moving to another class. I have 250 days played on that sucker but I'm fed up trying to fight this every update.

krathos

reiverx wrote: »

That last Vivec campaign on PS4 NA ended with 3 DKs in the top 50.

Unfortunately the only DKs that people notice are those permablockers with guard that waste the time of a full group for 20 minutes. Because of this they are seen as being everywhere and totally OP.

So, I'm taking my mDK out of PVP and moving to another class. I have 250 days played on that sucker but I'm fed up trying to fight this every update.

@reiverx don't give up brother. We are here for you.

Xvorg

Hi, came back after a one week retirement just to see the change Wrongbel is trying to explain about petrify and stonefist.

As somebody pointed out, now it is one skill for melee and the other for nothing... because if I want to use a ranged stun in a magicka char, I go straight to destro reach. Shock reach has a stun and a chance of concussion, while flame reach has a stun and a knockback, and both are DoTs

Any reason to run stonefist?

Regarding the Inferno comment, we all have seen how anything good DKs used to have prior to 1.6 was ripped off and given to sorcs, while changing those skills for laughable versions of its former glory. Nevertheless, DKs are still there. Now, according to wrobel having 4 AoE is too much compared with the 5~6 AoEs Temps have (not considering ultis).

BTW Wrongbel, I just saw that you changed the executioner passive for NBs, which is a very good change (especially the resource restored) Any chance to make something similar with helping hands? No? Off course, you are right, DKs can't be a copy of other classes while other classes can be a copy of DKs. But consider that stonefist could have a chance of being useful...

krathos

Xvorg wrote: »

Hi, came back after a one week retirement just to see the change Wrongbel is trying to explain about petrify and stonefist.

As somebody pointed out, now it is one skill for melee and the other for nothing... because if I want to use a ranged stun in a magicka char, I go straight to destro reach. Shock reach has a stun and a chance of concussion, while flame reach has a stun and a knockback, and both are DoTs

Any reason to run stonefist?

Regarding the Inferno comment, we all have seen how anything good DKs used to have prior to 1.6 was ripped off and given to sorcs, while changing those skills for laughable versions of its former glory. Nevertheless, DKs are still there. Now, according to wrobel having 4 AoE is too much compared with the 5~6 AoEs Temps have (not considering ultis).

BTW Wrongbel, I just saw that you changed the executioner passive for NBs, which is a very good change (especially the resource restored) Any chance to make something similar with helping hands? No? Off course, you are right, DKs can't be a copy of other classes while other classes can be a copy of DKs. But consider that stonefist could have a chance of being useful...

@Xvorg yep. nail, meet hammer. Nobody is going to run stonefist. Those already running petrify will just suffer through the inadequacies of invigorating drain.

Xvorg

krathos wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Hi, came back after a one week retirement just to see the change Wrongbel is trying to explain about petrify and stonefist.

As somebody pointed out, now it is one skill for melee and the other for nothing... because if I want to use a ranged stun in a magicka char, I go straight to destro reach. Shock reach has a stun and a chance of concussion, while flame reach has a stun and a knockback, and both are DoTs

Any reason to run stonefist?

Regarding the Inferno comment, we all have seen how anything good DKs used to have prior to 1.6 was ripped off and given to sorcs, while changing those skills for laughable versions of its former glory. Nevertheless, DKs are still there. Now, according to wrobel having 4 AoE is too much compared with the 5~6 AoEs Temps have (not considering ultis).

BTW Wrongbel, I just saw that you changed the executioner passive for NBs, which is a very good change (especially the resource restored) Any chance to make something similar with helping hands? No? Off course, you are right, DKs can't be a copy of other classes while other classes can be a copy of DKs. But consider that stonefist could have a chance of being useful...

@Xvorg yep. nail, meet hammer. Nobody is going to run stonefist. Those already running petrify will just suffer through the inadequacies of invigorating drain.

TBH, I'll keep on working on my AoE Magplar. It has potential

krathos

I really hope these patch notes have something good or at least revert the petrify changes entirely.

usmcjdking

Vamp drain has a slightly shorter ranger than petrify.

I fail to see how the petrify change can't be accomodated elsewhere if you so choose to go that route.

Quantum_V

-Fix Wings (maybe even buff them - reduce its cost)
-Fix leap
-Aoe inferno
-Pay meticulous attention on coag and how it's affected by multipliers. The utility/skill cost ratio of this ability terrible.

Thanks.

krathos

Quantum_V wrote: »

-Fix Wings (maybe even buff them - reduce its cost)
-Fix leap
-Aoe inferno
-Pay meticulous attention on coag and how it's affected by multipliers. The utility/skill cost ratio of this ability terrible.

Thanks.

Lol Coag really is trash. It's such a crappy heal compared to what other classs have. Warden heal is stronger and a cone and gives minor regen boons which are harder to come by.

NyassaV

I don't play a DK much, but I fight a few here and there in and PvP I can say one thing. Leap is over preforming and it's your fault, you've forced them to use this skill as it is cheap and is their only real source of burst as a class. The damage from leap is enough for me to avoid DKs that I know I can take down. You've already messed their sustain to the ground, buff their sustain and decrease the damage of leap.

dirtykdx

Hollery wrote: »

I don't play a DK much, but I fight a few here and there in and PvP I can say one thing. Leap is over preforming and it's your fault, you've forced them to use this skill as it is cheap and is their only real source of burst as a class. The damage from leap is enough for me to avoid DKs that I know I can take down. You've already messed their sustain to the ground, buff their sustain and decrease the damage of leap.

I mean, it only works about 1/4 of the time anyway...so, I think the "working as intended" should put your mind at ease.

Toc de Malsvi

Hollery wrote: »

I don't play a DK much, but I fight a few here and there in and PvP I can say one thing. Leap is over preforming and it's your fault, you've forced them to use this skill as it is cheap and is their only real source of burst as a class. The damage from leap is enough for me to avoid DKs that I know I can take down. You've already messed their sustain to the ground, buff their sustain and decrease the damage of leap.

If leap is reduced in damage, it ceases to be used.

Dawnbreaker already rivals it by doing more overall damage with another 25% vs vamp. Also Dawnbreaker doesnt cause the caster to momentarilly lose control of their character.

Kilandros

Hollery wrote: »

I don't play a DK much, but I fight a few here and there in and PvP I can say one thing. Leap is over preforming and it's your fault, you've forced them to use this skill as it is cheap and is their only real source of burst as a class. The damage from leap is enough for me to avoid DKs that I know I can take down. You've already messed their sustain to the ground, buff their sustain and decrease the damage of leap.

It's literally less overall damage than Dawnbreaker and less damage than Incap. Would you like to edit your statement?

krathos

Hollery wrote: »

I don't play a DK much, but I fight a few here and there in and PvP I can say one thing. Leap is over preforming and it's your fault, you've forced them to use this skill as it is cheap and is their only real source of burst as a class. The damage from leap is enough for me to avoid DKs that I know I can take down. You've already messed their sustain to the ground, buff their sustain and decrease the damage of leap.

The absolutely hilarious part about this is that you can spec a Stam warden to have a shalk that hits nearly as hard as leap and almost identical to your dawnbreaker on the same build.

Toc de Malsvi

Wings is too strong against projectiles even in its current form. Mag Dk with wings can lock out mag NB and bow attacks. It isnt strong against several projectile based attack sources. But it is ridiculous one on one.

It needs a buff from another angle, ie Major/Minor buffs for longer duration.

I good change for wings would be Major Expedition for 5-6 seconds. Plus perhaps some sort of hop effect like dragon leap but without the damage on landing.

I would like to see wings buffed, but in a way that doesnt completely lock down ranged builds.

A more powerful and useful version of wings would immulate shuffle. Say 20s of 15% chance to reflect, with 20s of minor expedition and 5 seconds major on cast.

Random chance reflects mean you cant lock down certain builds. But they are also more dangerous in general because opponents dont know what is or isnt going to be reflected. Thus they cannot effectly predict when to dodge/block.

Toc de Malsvi

Wing are problematic in general, because they are very hard to actually balance. Either they are way too strong or too weak and situational. Especially if you dont want to increase the strength of stam DKs.

Perhaps a small heal could be attached to wings activation.

Kilandros

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Wings is too strong against projectiles even in its current form. Mag Dk with wings can lock out mag NB and bow attacks. It isnt strong against several projectile based attack sources. But it is ridiculous one on one.

It needs a buff from another angle, ie Major/Minor buffs for longer duration.

I good change for wings would be Major Expedition for 5-6 seconds. Plus perhaps some sort of hop effect like dragon leap but without the damage on landing.

I would like to see wings buffed, but in a way that doesnt completely lock down ranged builds.

A more powerful and useful version of wings would immulate shuffle. Say 20s of 15% chance to reflect, with 20s of minor expedition and 5 seconds major on cast.

Random chance reflects mean you cant lock down certain builds. But they are also more dangerous in general because opponents dont know what is or isnt going to be reflected. Thus they cannot effectly predict when to dodge/block.

I'd rather they just change Wings completely. Obviously vanilla wings (infinite reflect for 6 seconds) was just an ungodly OP ability. Current wings is pretty lackluster, mainly because you still get hit with status effects/DoTs and there are few reflectable projectiles left in the game.

Instead, what I'd like to see is Wings turned into a form of Missile Dampening (Flap your wings creating turbulence in the air around you). Essentially, you cast the ability and for 10 seconds you and allies within 5m of you take like 30-35% less damage from projectiles. That way Reflect no longer works as a hard counter to builds that rely on ranged abilities/builds, but still helps you deal with them.

krathos

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Wing are problematic in general, because they are very hard to actually balance. Either they are way too strong or too weak and situational. Especially if you dont want to increase the strength of stam DKs.

Perhaps a small heal could be attached to wings activation.

How do you feel about warden reflect and absorb seeing as they're essentially free to cast if you absorb anything, base cost is cheaper, and it grants major heroism - one of the rarest and most powerful buffs in the game?

Toc de Malsvi

krathos wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Wing are problematic in general, because they are very hard to actually balance. Either they are way too strong or too weak and situational. Especially if you dont want to increase the strength of stam DKs.

Perhaps a small heal could be attached to wings activation.

How do you feel about warden reflect and absorb seeing as they're essentially free to cast if you absorb anything, base cost is cheaper, and it grants major heroism - one of the rarest and most powerful buffs in the game?

Fiffy, on one hand I feel they are OP. On the other I can sometimes burn through it and get some good burst on them before reapplication.

I dont like em either way. In many ways for PVP wardens are stacked for success.

Minno

So petrify now cannot be cast on cc immunity targets?

Did I read that right?