Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC.
Darkflare is probably the worst example you could have chosen. It has the strongest secondary effect an ability can have in eso. A healdebuff.
This healdebuff is also applied regardless if the projectile is blocked, dodged or evaded/missed via cloak.
It´s the best secondary effect attached to any offensive casttime skill existant in eso - regardless of that it´s barely ever used in pvp. What can we really take from that?
As for the comparison to dizzingswing/WB - not that it makes any sense to compare it to an uninterruptable ability.
If fragment gives you empower every time it´s procced/hardcasted we can talk.
Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC.
Darkflare is probably the worst example you could have chosen. It has the strongest secondary effect an ability can have in eso. A healdebuff.
This healdebuff is also applied regardless if the projectile is blocked, dodged or evaded/missed via cloak.
It´s the best secondary effect attached to any offensive casttime skill existant in eso - regardless of that it´s barely ever used in pvp. What can we really take from that?
As for the comparison to dizzingswing/WB - not that it makes any sense to compare it to an uninterruptable ability.
If fragment gives you empower every time it´s procced/hardcasted we can talk.
If I'm not mistaken, some sorcs are already using Inner Light to empower the proc'd frag. The Dizzying Swing / WB is relevant though. WB => Gives empower making it the damage morph. DS => The CC, making it the utility morph. Pretty much in line with Frag-treatment.
Given how easy it is to empower a proc'd crystal frag, I don't think that should be embedded into the proc'd crystal frag. But having a hard-casted CF increase damage of the next hard-casted CF by 20% wouldn't be so bad. Would probably favour the zergling-sorcs, but if you would fight them, at least you have a window where you know they're vulnerable(hard-casting twice in a row). Similar to Dark Flare, which is also interruptable.
Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC.
Darkflare is probably the worst example you could have chosen. It has the strongest secondary effect an ability can have in eso. A healdebuff.
This healdebuff is also applied regardless if the projectile is blocked, dodged or evaded/missed via cloak.
It´s the best secondary effect attached to any offensive casttime skill existant in eso - regardless of that it´s barely ever used in pvp. What can we really take from that?
As for the comparison to dizzingswing/WB - not that it makes any sense to compare it to an uninterruptable ability.
If fragment gives you empower every time it´s procced/hardcasted we can talk.
If I'm not mistaken, some sorcs are already using Inner Light to empower the proc'd frag. The Dizzying Swing / WB is relevant though. WB => Gives empower making it the damage morph. DS => The CC, making it the utility morph. Pretty much in line with Frag-treatment.
Given how easy it is to empower a proc'd crystal frag, I don't think that should be embedded into the proc'd crystal frag. But having a hard-casted CF increase damage of the next hard-casted CF by 20% wouldn't be so bad. Would probably favour the zergling-sorcs, but if you would fight them, at least you have a window where you know they're vulnerable(hard-casting twice in a row). Similar to Dark Flare, which is also interruptable.
Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC.
Darkflare is probably the worst example you could have chosen. It has the strongest secondary effect an ability can have in eso. A healdebuff.
This healdebuff is also applied regardless if the projectile is blocked, dodged or evaded/missed via cloak.
It´s the best secondary effect attached to any offensive casttime skill existant in eso - regardless of that it´s barely ever used in pvp. What can we really take from that?
As for the comparison to dizzingswing/WB - not that it makes any sense to compare it to an uninterruptable ability.
If fragment gives you empower every time it´s procced/hardcasted we can talk.
If I'm not mistaken, some sorcs are already using Inner Light to empower the proc'd frag. The Dizzying Swing / WB is relevant though. WB => Gives empower making it the damage morph. DS => The CC, making it the utility morph. Pretty much in line with Frag-treatment.
Given how easy it is to empower a proc'd crystal frag, I don't think that should be embedded into the proc'd crystal frag. But having a hard-casted CF increase damage of the next hard-casted CF by 20% wouldn't be so bad. Would probably favour the zergling-sorcs, but if you would fight them, at least you have a window where you know they're vulnerable(hard-casting twice in a row). Similar to Dark Flare, which is also interruptable.
An uninterruptable ability is absolutely never comparable to an interruptable one. One has a very harsh punishment for false use while the other has none.
There is also no basis for comparison to dark flare. Darkflare applies it´s secondary effect regardless. Crystal blast does not - though being a magica aoe ability crystal blast should in theory be undodgeable - as all magica aoes are.
Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC.
Darkflare is probably the worst example you could have chosen. It has the strongest secondary effect an ability can have in eso. A healdebuff.
This healdebuff is also applied regardless if the projectile is blocked, dodged or evaded/missed via cloak.
It´s the best secondary effect attached to any offensive casttime skill existant in eso - regardless of that it´s barely ever used in pvp. What can we really take from that?
As for the comparison to dizzingswing/WB - not that it makes any sense to compare it to an uninterruptable ability.
If fragment gives you empower every time it´s procced/hardcasted we can talk.
If I'm not mistaken, some sorcs are already using Inner Light to empower the proc'd frag. The Dizzying Swing / WB is relevant though. WB => Gives empower making it the damage morph. DS => The CC, making it the utility morph. Pretty much in line with Frag-treatment.
Given how easy it is to empower a proc'd crystal frag, I don't think that should be embedded into the proc'd crystal frag. But having a hard-casted CF increase damage of the next hard-casted CF by 20% wouldn't be so bad. Would probably favour the zergling-sorcs, but if you would fight them, at least you have a window where you know they're vulnerable(hard-casting twice in a row). Similar to Dark Flare, which is also interruptable.
An uninterruptable ability is absolutely never comparable to an interruptable one. One has a very harsh punishment for false use while the other has none.
There is also no basis for comparison to dark flare. Darkflare applies it´s secondary effect regardless. Crystal blast does not - though being a magica aoe ability crystal blast should in theory be undodgeable - as all magica aoes are.
One is melee and another one hits from 28m(not including Cyro-buffs). If WB/DS would be interruptable it would be a waste, as the charge-animation is pretty obvious and it's a melee attack. As a Sorc, I guess you don't really want people in melee range anyway. So there's a range advantage that WB/DS doesn't have, which makes up for the lack of uninterruptable imo.
HoloYoitsu wrote: »Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.KramUzibra wrote: »Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.
My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.
It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
...so go on, I'm waiting.
HoloYoitsu wrote: »Sorcs freak out about it because no one likes unwarranted nerfs. And most sorcs don't want to be forced into front barring rune cage and losing a skill slot.HoloYoitsu wrote: »That's nice, lemme know when I can start reflecting/absorbing dizzying swings. This is just getting pedantic at this point, show me a coherent argument for why Frags CC is suddenly so OP it needs to be deleted from the game, whereas a month ago complaints about the CC were pretty much laughed off the forum.@HoloYoitsu dizzying swing can be cancelled by moving through the player or far enough away from them. Dizzying swing is not instant and it is just as easily dodgeable as frags. I don’t give a crap about dizzying swing, frags in general hits harder and is far more annoying to deal with.
Is it the rune cage change? Despite the fact that CC-less frags combos more strongly with that than the current frags? Even if so, why not then argue to just leave both skills alone?
Reading this thread I don't think it's people arguing that the CC on CF is OP. It's people arguing against the Sorcerers who are in hysterics claiming that this breaks CF. It doesn't.
The stun on CF has been one of the most unreliable and irrelevant stuns in the game for awhile now. That's why I (A) don't quite understand its removal but also why (B) I don't understand why Sorcs are freaking out over it.
I totally agree it's an unwarranted nerf. But it's not a sky is falling nerf.
Anti_Virus wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.KramUzibra wrote: »Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.
My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.
It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
...so go on, I'm waiting.
Lol not Stam DK or Stam Sorc. If you want to play and archer guess what you spam wait for it Snipe a cast time ability....
Have fun spamming Wreking blow/ snipe allday.
Anti_Virus wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.KramUzibra wrote: »Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.
My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.
It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
...so go on, I'm waiting.
Lol not Stam DK or Stam Sorc. If you want to play and archer guess what you spam wait for it Snipe a cast time ability....
Have fun spamming Wreking blow/ snipe allday.
Not sure if stamsorc really reinforces the point you´re trying to make here...
I’m going to relish this sweet moment when sorcs got their first real nerf that’s going to impact their combat in a very tangible way. Now I’m going to sit here and say exactly what all the mag sorcs said when stam classes got hit by so many nerfs.
L2P, you’re clearly over reacting, stop the whining and crying. This is absolutely necessary, it’s been a long time coming. You need to stop relying on abilities and actually git gud.
What exactly was nerfed about stam classes in the last year that impacted their combat in a tangible way? If you think stam classes have actually been significantly nerfed over and over then it's clear you're a baddie.
Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.KramUzibra wrote: »Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.
My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.
It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
...so go on, I'm waiting.
Lol not Stam DK or Stam Sorc. If you want to play and archer guess what you spam wait for it Snipe a cast time ability....
Have fun spamming Wreking blow/ snipe allday.
Not sure if stamsorc really reinforces the point you´re trying to make here...
Well it plays differently to the mag version, and yet the only stam morph they got was hurricane.
lucky_Sage wrote: »I got a legit question how often does frags even cc in pvp.i play a dw magdk so my block isn't up the whole fight but I almost never got stunned by frags they either cc me with streak or some else does it for them. frag cc may stun me ounce every 15 sorcs and it normal done by that random hard casting frag sorc that I don't pay attention to.
when I was playing my sorc I never relied on frag cc I used streak.
lucky_Sage wrote: »I got a legit question how often does frags even cc in pvp.i play a dw magdk so my block isn't up the whole fight but I almost never got stunned by frags they either cc me with streak or some else does it for them. frag cc may stun me ounce every 15 sorcs and it normal done by that random hard casting frag sorc that I don't pay attention to.
when I was playing my sorc I never relied on frag cc I used streak.
Many uses really.
You can CC players from further away than Streak which means you can help a friend who is trouble by CCing their attacker or stopping someone getting to a scroll/relic/chaosball etc.
Also defensively, if I'm being chased and frags proc I can turn around, throw the frag and keep traveling away from my attacker rather than towards him.
Finally Streak has an increasing cost so if I've already used Streak and it was blocked I can use the Frags instead for CC and not have to wait for the Streak cool down to expire.
lucky_Sage wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »I got a legit question how often does frags even cc in pvp.i play a dw magdk so my block isn't up the whole fight but I almost never got stunned by frags they either cc me with streak or some else does it for them. frag cc may stun me ounce every 15 sorcs and it normal done by that random hard casting frag sorc that I don't pay attention to.
when I was playing my sorc I never relied on frag cc I used streak.
Many uses really.
You can CC players from further away than Streak which means you can help a friend who is trouble by CCing their attacker or stopping someone getting to a scroll/relic/chaosball etc.
Also defensively, if I'm being chased and frags proc I can turn around, throw the frag and keep traveling away from my attacker rather than towards him.
Finally Streak has an increasing cost so if I've already used Streak and it was blocked I can use the Frags instead for CC and not have to wait for the Streak cool down to expire.
so for you its not dodged by shuffle or block most of the time
lucky_Sage wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »I got a legit question how often does frags even cc in pvp.i play a dw magdk so my block isn't up the whole fight but I almost never got stunned by frags they either cc me with streak or some else does it for them. frag cc may stun me ounce every 15 sorcs and it normal done by that random hard casting frag sorc that I don't pay attention to.
when I was playing my sorc I never relied on frag cc I used streak.
Many uses really.
You can CC players from further away than Streak which means you can help a friend who is trouble by CCing their attacker or stopping someone getting to a scroll/relic/chaosball etc.
Also defensively, if I'm being chased and frags proc I can turn around, throw the frag and keep traveling away from my attacker rather than towards him.
Finally Streak has an increasing cost so if I've already used Streak and it was blocked I can use the Frags instead for CC and not have to wait for the Streak cool down to expire.
so for you its not dodged by shuffle or block most of the time
Sometimes it is, most of the times not. If it was always dodged or blocked no-one would run the skill, would they?
Ok I never paid attention to the morph so wasn't sure so Wrobel just made it and the base morph CC.I don't really see the issue now doesn't seem thay bad at all.
lucky_Sage wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »I got a legit question how often does frags even cc in pvp.i play a dw magdk so my block isn't up the whole fight but I almost never got stunned by frags they either cc me with streak or some else does it for them. frag cc may stun me ounce every 15 sorcs and it normal done by that random hard casting frag sorc that I don't pay attention to.
when I was playing my sorc I never relied on frag cc I used streak.
Many uses really.
You can CC players from further away than Streak which means you can help a friend who is trouble by CCing their attacker or stopping someone getting to a scroll/relic/chaosball etc.
Also defensively, if I'm being chased and frags proc I can turn around, throw the frag and keep traveling away from my attacker rather than towards him.
Finally Streak has an increasing cost so if I've already used Streak and it was blocked I can use the Frags instead for CC and not have to wait for the Streak cool down to expire.
so for you its not dodged by shuffle or block most of the time
Sometimes it is, most of the times not. If it was always dodged or blocked no-one would run the skill, would they?
well I can see how its a nerf but its not as bad as petrify into melee range
Wouah , so much great possibility with crystal blast in PVE :
crystal blast - crystal blast - crystal blast - crytal blast - crystal blast - crystal blast - crystal balst - crystal blast - crytal blast - crystal blast
Wouahouh ! this rotation is so fun , oh my bad i forget the HA ...
Seriously ....
btw here a list of what you SHOULD NOT DO wrobel :I mean ... just reverse the change and try to make to second morph interesting by buffing or changing the base morph . You could make it a stamina sorc skill , a sorc healer skill, a sorc tank skill ?
- You should not remove the crystal fragment proc to make both morph ... interesting
- You should not remove the crystal fragment burst ( 10% more damage ) and add it to crystal blast to make both morph ... interesting
- You should not increase the damage of the crystal blast to make both morph interresting ( do you really want use to play a potatoe gameplay for the rest of ... i mean i would delete my sorc in this case )
- You should not just increase the CC duration of crystal blast ... this won't change anything , the morph would stay garbage
- So much things that you should not do !
you could make so much greath thing with this morph without nerf the other one ... cause a crystal that you incant isn't really " original " .. potatoes already exist in Irl and it's what i call a copy past.
Can't handle one nerf? That's a pretty specious line to tout in a game where every class and pretty much every gameplay mechanic has been nerfed multiple times. Even if we look just at Frags, it was already nerfed in Morrowind.You sorcs will also have enough CC and damage! So why this change is a big problem for you. Its not a nerf from a class to ground...
This is just 1 nerf for a class, where the majority of player show, that they cant handle just 1 nerf! Shame on you guys. Maybe you should player weaker classes to know, that sorcs have abilities for nearly every situation. Just learn to play with it!