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Crystal Frags nerf?! No stun

  • Lieblingsjunge
    Lieblingsjunge
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    Derra wrote: »
    Kilandros wrote: »
    Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC.

    Darkflare is probably the worst example you could have chosen. It has the strongest secondary effect an ability can have in eso. A healdebuff.
    This healdebuff is also applied regardless if the projectile is blocked, dodged or evaded/missed via cloak.
    It´s the best secondary effect attached to any offensive casttime skill existant in eso - regardless of that it´s barely ever used in pvp. What can we really take from that?

    As for the comparison to dizzingswing/WB - not that it makes any sense to compare it to an uninterruptable ability.
    If fragment gives you empower every time it´s procced/hardcasted we can talk.

    If I'm not mistaken, some sorcs are already using Inner Light to empower the proc'd frag. The Dizzying Swing / WB is relevant though. WB => Gives empower making it the damage morph. DS => The CC, making it the utility morph. Pretty much in line with Frag-treatment.
    Given how easy it is to empower a proc'd crystal frag, I don't think that should be embedded into the proc'd crystal frag. But having a hard-casted CF increase damage of the next hard-casted CF by 20% wouldn't be so bad. Would probably favour the zergling-sorcs, but if you would fight them, at least you have a window where you know they're vulnerable(hard-casting twice in a row). Similar to Dark Flare, which is also interruptable.
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  • Derra
    Derra
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    Derra wrote: »
    Kilandros wrote: »
    Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC.

    Darkflare is probably the worst example you could have chosen. It has the strongest secondary effect an ability can have in eso. A healdebuff.
    This healdebuff is also applied regardless if the projectile is blocked, dodged or evaded/missed via cloak.
    It´s the best secondary effect attached to any offensive casttime skill existant in eso - regardless of that it´s barely ever used in pvp. What can we really take from that?

    As for the comparison to dizzingswing/WB - not that it makes any sense to compare it to an uninterruptable ability.
    If fragment gives you empower every time it´s procced/hardcasted we can talk.

    If I'm not mistaken, some sorcs are already using Inner Light to empower the proc'd frag. The Dizzying Swing / WB is relevant though. WB => Gives empower making it the damage morph. DS => The CC, making it the utility morph. Pretty much in line with Frag-treatment.
    Given how easy it is to empower a proc'd crystal frag, I don't think that should be embedded into the proc'd crystal frag. But having a hard-casted CF increase damage of the next hard-casted CF by 20% wouldn't be so bad. Would probably favour the zergling-sorcs, but if you would fight them, at least you have a window where you know they're vulnerable(hard-casting twice in a row). Similar to Dark Flare, which is also interruptable.

    An uninterruptable ability is absolutely never comparable to an interruptable one. One has a very harsh punishment for false use while the other has none.
    There is also no basis for comparison to dark flare. Darkflare applies it´s secondary effect regardless. Crystal blast does not.

    You´re using both abilities where it fits your arguments agenda while comfortably ignoring the shortcomings frags/blast has compared to both of them in a 1:1 comparison.
    Edited by Derra on October 2, 2017 1:43PM
    <Noricum>
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  • KingJ
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    I never paid attention to crystal blast but I assumed it always CC.Or did they change it so only Blast have the CC no longer both morphs?
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Derra wrote: »
    Kilandros wrote: »
    Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC.

    Darkflare is probably the worst example you could have chosen. It has the strongest secondary effect an ability can have in eso. A healdebuff.
    This healdebuff is also applied regardless if the projectile is blocked, dodged or evaded/missed via cloak.
    It´s the best secondary effect attached to any offensive casttime skill existant in eso - regardless of that it´s barely ever used in pvp. What can we really take from that?

    As for the comparison to dizzingswing/WB - not that it makes any sense to compare it to an uninterruptable ability.
    If fragment gives you empower every time it´s procced/hardcasted we can talk.

    If I'm not mistaken, some sorcs are already using Inner Light to empower the proc'd frag. The Dizzying Swing / WB is relevant though. WB => Gives empower making it the damage morph. DS => The CC, making it the utility morph. Pretty much in line with Frag-treatment.
    Given how easy it is to empower a proc'd crystal frag, I don't think that should be embedded into the proc'd crystal frag. But having a hard-casted CF increase damage of the next hard-casted CF by 20% wouldn't be so bad. Would probably favour the zergling-sorcs, but if you would fight them, at least you have a window where you know they're vulnerable(hard-casting twice in a row). Similar to Dark Flare, which is also interruptable.

    Yes, you are basically mistaken. Who on earth empowers Crystal Frags with Magelight in PvP? First off, how many Sorc builds even run magelight in PvP? It's gotta be under 5%.

    Secondly you see their hands glowing to let you know they've got a proc... then you see the magelight pop up, which can only be for the empower, now you really reaaally know that you should block or dodge. Who on earth eats that frag unblocked to the face? And if you do, you deserve the massive damage you get. It's makes the frag so easy to predict and you have to use magelight/entropy, does that sound easy to you?

    And Empower is not embedded into the proc'ed Frag. Empower is 20% damage bonus, Crystal Frag proc has 10% damage bonus.
    Edited by Maulkin on October 2, 2017 1:59PM
    EU | PC | AD
  • Lieblingsjunge
    Lieblingsjunge
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    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Kilandros wrote: »
    Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC.

    Darkflare is probably the worst example you could have chosen. It has the strongest secondary effect an ability can have in eso. A healdebuff.
    This healdebuff is also applied regardless if the projectile is blocked, dodged or evaded/missed via cloak.
    It´s the best secondary effect attached to any offensive casttime skill existant in eso - regardless of that it´s barely ever used in pvp. What can we really take from that?

    As for the comparison to dizzingswing/WB - not that it makes any sense to compare it to an uninterruptable ability.
    If fragment gives you empower every time it´s procced/hardcasted we can talk.

    If I'm not mistaken, some sorcs are already using Inner Light to empower the proc'd frag. The Dizzying Swing / WB is relevant though. WB => Gives empower making it the damage morph. DS => The CC, making it the utility morph. Pretty much in line with Frag-treatment.
    Given how easy it is to empower a proc'd crystal frag, I don't think that should be embedded into the proc'd crystal frag. But having a hard-casted CF increase damage of the next hard-casted CF by 20% wouldn't be so bad. Would probably favour the zergling-sorcs, but if you would fight them, at least you have a window where you know they're vulnerable(hard-casting twice in a row). Similar to Dark Flare, which is also interruptable.

    An uninterruptable ability is absolutely never comparable to an interruptable one. One has a very harsh punishment for false use while the other has none.
    There is also no basis for comparison to dark flare. Darkflare applies it´s secondary effect regardless. Crystal blast does not - though being a magica aoe ability crystal blast should in theory be undodgeable - as all magica aoes are.

    One is melee and another one hits from 28m(not including Cyro-buffs). If WB/DS would be interruptable it would be a waste, as the charge-animation is pretty obvious and it's a melee attack. As a Sorc, I guess you don't really want people in melee range anyway. So there's a range advantage that WB/DS doesn't have, which makes up for the lack of uninterruptable imo.

    You pretty much answered yourself there, though. Crystal Blast should be made in-line with other magicka aoes. Stun is blockable/avoidable - the damage is not. (Another thing that breaks cloak :^ happy times, right?)
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  • Derra
    Derra
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    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Kilandros wrote: »
    Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC.

    Darkflare is probably the worst example you could have chosen. It has the strongest secondary effect an ability can have in eso. A healdebuff.
    This healdebuff is also applied regardless if the projectile is blocked, dodged or evaded/missed via cloak.
    It´s the best secondary effect attached to any offensive casttime skill existant in eso - regardless of that it´s barely ever used in pvp. What can we really take from that?

    As for the comparison to dizzingswing/WB - not that it makes any sense to compare it to an uninterruptable ability.
    If fragment gives you empower every time it´s procced/hardcasted we can talk.

    If I'm not mistaken, some sorcs are already using Inner Light to empower the proc'd frag. The Dizzying Swing / WB is relevant though. WB => Gives empower making it the damage morph. DS => The CC, making it the utility morph. Pretty much in line with Frag-treatment.
    Given how easy it is to empower a proc'd crystal frag, I don't think that should be embedded into the proc'd crystal frag. But having a hard-casted CF increase damage of the next hard-casted CF by 20% wouldn't be so bad. Would probably favour the zergling-sorcs, but if you would fight them, at least you have a window where you know they're vulnerable(hard-casting twice in a row). Similar to Dark Flare, which is also interruptable.

    An uninterruptable ability is absolutely never comparable to an interruptable one. One has a very harsh punishment for false use while the other has none.
    There is also no basis for comparison to dark flare. Darkflare applies it´s secondary effect regardless. Crystal blast does not - though being a magica aoe ability crystal blast should in theory be undodgeable - as all magica aoes are.

    One is melee and another one hits from 28m(not including Cyro-buffs). If WB/DS would be interruptable it would be a waste, as the charge-animation is pretty obvious and it's a melee attack. As a Sorc, I guess you don't really want people in melee range anyway. So there's a range advantage that WB/DS doesn't have, which makes up for the lack of uninterruptable imo.

    That´s why so many templars use dark flare?

    The answer to that is: No it does not make up for that.
    Against a semi competent player a casttime ability is unusable.
    <Noricum>
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    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    KingJ wrote: »
    I never paid attention to crystal blast but I assumed it always CC.Or did they change it so only Blast have the CC no longer both morphs?

    It did always CC. They are just removing the CC from Crystal Frags as the title says.
    Edited by Maulkin on October 2, 2017 1:55PM
    EU | PC | AD
  • Baconlad
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    Didnt frags just get nerfed last patch? Rofl...sorcs just got the blazing shield treatment...or the Breath of life treatment...or the blazing spear treatment...or the radiant destruction treatment. All skills that got hard nerfed two patches in a row...glad to see sorcs being targeted
  • Anti_Virus
    Anti_Virus
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    HoloYoitsu wrote: »
    KramUzibra wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.

    My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.

    It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
    Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.

    ...so go on, I'm waiting.

    Lol not Stam DK or Stam Sorc. If you want to play and archer guess what you spam wait for it Snipe a cast time ability....

    Have fun spamming Wreking blow/ snipe allday.
    Edited by Anti_Virus on October 2, 2017 2:11PM
    Power Wealth And Influence.
  • SodanTok
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    Why do people keep trying to find reason for ranged abilities to have cast time. There is no amount of advantage that can offset cast time. If you fight from range you are giving your enemy 1-2sec of warning you are about to shoot and then another 1-2sec of flight time.

    The only thing that allows you to land these attacks is surprise (so not with Miat) or the target. Yes the target must either by his choice or stupidity let himself be hit. You cant even set it up with CC, because people will break before it lands or just dodge the cast time attack mid flight long before it lands.

    And I am not saying they should be undodgeable/unblockable (that would be just stupid), but the dynamic of the fight changes quickly if they have to constantly defend or eat it up. If you have cast time it just means they are free to attack you during it and then just dodge/block after.

    I speak mostly of blast, flare, snipe and bow/destro heavy attacks. Dizzy swing has its own problem, imo 90% related to Miat.


  • Aedaryl
    Aedaryl
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    Kilandros wrote: »
    HoloYoitsu wrote: »
    Kilandros wrote: »
    HoloYoitsu wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    @HoloYoitsu dizzying swing can be cancelled by moving through the player or far enough away from them. Dizzying swing is not instant and it is just as easily dodgeable as frags. I don’t give a crap about dizzying swing, frags in general hits harder and is far more annoying to deal with.
    That's nice, lemme know when I can start reflecting/absorbing dizzying swings. This is just getting pedantic at this point, show me a coherent argument for why Frags CC is suddenly so OP it needs to be deleted from the game, whereas a month ago complaints about the CC were pretty much laughed off the forum.

    Is it the rune cage change? Despite the fact that CC-less frags combos more strongly with that than the current frags? Even if so, why not then argue to just leave both skills alone?

    Reading this thread I don't think it's people arguing that the CC on CF is OP. It's people arguing against the Sorcerers who are in hysterics claiming that this breaks CF. It doesn't.

    The stun on CF has been one of the most unreliable and irrelevant stuns in the game for awhile now. That's why I (A) don't quite understand its removal but also why (B) I don't understand why Sorcs are freaking out over it.
    Sorcs freak out about it because no one likes unwarranted nerfs. And most sorcs don't want to be forced into front barring rune cage and losing a skill slot.

    I totally agree it's an unwarranted nerf. But it's not a sky is falling nerf.

    You don't unserstand how the nerf is affecting sorc.

    The problem is sorcerer doesn't have anymore a range CC. That's mean some will use Rune Cage or destructive reach, and here is the nerf. No one want to use Rune cage or DR, because they have no place for it. People, by slotting Rune Cage for having their range CC will need to sacrifise a skill, and here is the nerf, ZoS remove a skill slot for sorc, because Rune cage + no stun frag = Stun frag.

    A sorc bar is usually like it : Frag/Inner light/Force pulse/curse/Hardened ward and Healing ward/Harness magicka/streak/Entropy or Surge/ utility skill (Dark Exchange or Mines or Bouldness storm, ...)

    If a sorc need to slot destructive reach, he need to lost : Inner light (empowered frag, 2% mag regen, 7%max magicka, sneak dedection) or Surge/entropy (20% more spell damage, meaning he will lost damage or sustain if he chooses that buff from potions) Or the utility skill (regen nerf if it's Dark exchange, ...)

    Also, did you think about pet sorc ? You know, the one hwo have 4 skills for pets with the longest cast time in the game ? How will they find a place for rune cage ? The pet being not reliable in cyrodil make you dependant from Rune Cage.
    Edited by Aedaryl on October 2, 2017 2:27PM
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    HoloYoitsu wrote: »
    KramUzibra wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.

    My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.

    It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
    Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.

    ...so go on, I'm waiting.

    Lol not Stam DK or Stam Sorc. If you want to play and archer guess what you spam wait for it Snipe a cast time ability....

    Have fun spamming Wreking blow/ snipe allday.

    Not sure if stamsorc really reinforces the point you´re trying to make here...
    <Noricum>
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    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Anti_Virus
    Anti_Virus
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    Derra wrote: »
    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    HoloYoitsu wrote: »
    KramUzibra wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.

    My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.

    It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
    Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.

    ...so go on, I'm waiting.

    Lol not Stam DK or Stam Sorc. If you want to play and archer guess what you spam wait for it Snipe a cast time ability....

    Have fun spamming Wreking blow/ snipe allday.

    Not sure if stamsorc really reinforces the point you´re trying to make here...

    Well it plays differently to the mag version, and yet the only stam morph they got was hurricane.
    Power Wealth And Influence.
  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    I’m going to relish this sweet moment when sorcs got their first real nerf that’s going to impact their combat in a very tangible way. Now I’m going to sit here and say exactly what all the mag sorcs said when stam classes got hit by so many nerfs.

    L2P, you’re clearly over reacting, stop the whining and crying. This is absolutely necessary, it’s been a long time coming. You need to stop relying on abilities and actually git gud.

    What exactly was nerfed about stam classes in the last year that impacted their combat in a tangible way? If you think stam classes have actually been significantly nerfed over and over then it's clear you're a baddie.

    Wuut? Compare the Stam builds from Homestead to Stam builds in Shadows of the Hist. The nerfs were real.
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  • NyassaV
    NyassaV
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    So can we undo that silly 7% nerf that didn't do jack for PvP but affected PvE
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  • Derra
    Derra
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    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Anti_Virus wrote: »
    HoloYoitsu wrote: »
    KramUzibra wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.

    My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.

    It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
    Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.

    ...so go on, I'm waiting.

    Lol not Stam DK or Stam Sorc. If you want to play and archer guess what you spam wait for it Snipe a cast time ability....

    Have fun spamming Wreking blow/ snipe allday.

    Not sure if stamsorc really reinforces the point you´re trying to make here...

    Well it plays differently to the mag version, and yet the only stam morph they got was hurricane.

    Atleast they have options regarding their weapon loadout...
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • lucky_Sage
    lucky_Sage
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    I got a legit question how often does frags even cc in pvp.i play a dw magdk so my block isn't up the whole fight but I almost never got stunned by frags they either cc me with streak or some else does it for them. frag cc may stun me ounce every 15 sorcs and it normal done by that random hard casting frag sorc that I don't pay attention to.

    when I was playing my sorc I never relied on frag cc I used streak.
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  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    lucky_Sage wrote: »
    I got a legit question how often does frags even cc in pvp.i play a dw magdk so my block isn't up the whole fight but I almost never got stunned by frags they either cc me with streak or some else does it for them. frag cc may stun me ounce every 15 sorcs and it normal done by that random hard casting frag sorc that I don't pay attention to.

    when I was playing my sorc I never relied on frag cc I used streak.

    Many uses really.

    You can CC players from further away than Streak which means you can help a friend who is trouble by CCing their attacker or stopping someone getting to a scroll/relic/chaosball etc.

    Also defensively, if I'm being chased and frags proc I can turn around, throw the frag and keep traveling away from my attacker rather than towards him.

    Finally Streak has an increasing cost so if I've already used Streak and it was blocked I can use the Frags instead for CC and not have to wait for the Streak cool down to expire.
    EU | PC | AD
  • lucky_Sage
    lucky_Sage
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maulkin wrote: »
    lucky_Sage wrote: »
    I got a legit question how often does frags even cc in pvp.i play a dw magdk so my block isn't up the whole fight but I almost never got stunned by frags they either cc me with streak or some else does it for them. frag cc may stun me ounce every 15 sorcs and it normal done by that random hard casting frag sorc that I don't pay attention to.

    when I was playing my sorc I never relied on frag cc I used streak.

    Many uses really.

    You can CC players from further away than Streak which means you can help a friend who is trouble by CCing their attacker or stopping someone getting to a scroll/relic/chaosball etc.

    Also defensively, if I'm being chased and frags proc I can turn around, throw the frag and keep traveling away from my attacker rather than towards him.

    Finally Streak has an increasing cost so if I've already used Streak and it was blocked I can use the Frags instead for CC and not have to wait for the Streak cool down to expire.

    so for you its not dodged by shuffle or block most of the time
    DC PC NA
    Magdk - main
    Stamcro - alt

    AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
    magdk
    magblade
    stamplar
    magden
    magsorc

  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    lucky_Sage wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    lucky_Sage wrote: »
    I got a legit question how often does frags even cc in pvp.i play a dw magdk so my block isn't up the whole fight but I almost never got stunned by frags they either cc me with streak or some else does it for them. frag cc may stun me ounce every 15 sorcs and it normal done by that random hard casting frag sorc that I don't pay attention to.

    when I was playing my sorc I never relied on frag cc I used streak.

    Many uses really.

    You can CC players from further away than Streak which means you can help a friend who is trouble by CCing their attacker or stopping someone getting to a scroll/relic/chaosball etc.

    Also defensively, if I'm being chased and frags proc I can turn around, throw the frag and keep traveling away from my attacker rather than towards him.

    Finally Streak has an increasing cost so if I've already used Streak and it was blocked I can use the Frags instead for CC and not have to wait for the Streak cool down to expire.

    so for you its not dodged by shuffle or block most of the time

    Sometimes it is, most of the times not. If it was always dodged or blocked no-one would run the skill, would they?
    EU | PC | AD
  • lucky_Sage
    lucky_Sage
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maulkin wrote: »
    lucky_Sage wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    lucky_Sage wrote: »
    I got a legit question how often does frags even cc in pvp.i play a dw magdk so my block isn't up the whole fight but I almost never got stunned by frags they either cc me with streak or some else does it for them. frag cc may stun me ounce every 15 sorcs and it normal done by that random hard casting frag sorc that I don't pay attention to.

    when I was playing my sorc I never relied on frag cc I used streak.

    Many uses really.

    You can CC players from further away than Streak which means you can help a friend who is trouble by CCing their attacker or stopping someone getting to a scroll/relic/chaosball etc.

    Also defensively, if I'm being chased and frags proc I can turn around, throw the frag and keep traveling away from my attacker rather than towards him.

    Finally Streak has an increasing cost so if I've already used Streak and it was blocked I can use the Frags instead for CC and not have to wait for the Streak cool down to expire.

    so for you its not dodged by shuffle or block most of the time

    Sometimes it is, most of the times not. If it was always dodged or blocked no-one would run the skill, would they?

    well I can see how its a nerf but its not as bad as petrify into melee range
    DC PC NA
    Magdk - main
    Stamcro - alt

    AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
    magdk
    magblade
    stamplar
    magden
    magsorc

  • KingJ
    KingJ
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maulkin wrote: »
    KingJ wrote: »
    I never paid attention to crystal blast but I assumed it always CC.Or did they change it so only Blast have the CC no longer both morphs?

    It did always CC. They are just removing the CC from Crystal Frags as the title says.
    Ok I never paid attention to the morph so wasn't sure so Wrobel just made it and the base morph CC.I don't really see the issue now doesn't seem thay bad at all.
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    lucky_Sage wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    lucky_Sage wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    lucky_Sage wrote: »
    I got a legit question how often does frags even cc in pvp.i play a dw magdk so my block isn't up the whole fight but I almost never got stunned by frags they either cc me with streak or some else does it for them. frag cc may stun me ounce every 15 sorcs and it normal done by that random hard casting frag sorc that I don't pay attention to.

    when I was playing my sorc I never relied on frag cc I used streak.

    Many uses really.

    You can CC players from further away than Streak which means you can help a friend who is trouble by CCing their attacker or stopping someone getting to a scroll/relic/chaosball etc.

    Also defensively, if I'm being chased and frags proc I can turn around, throw the frag and keep traveling away from my attacker rather than towards him.

    Finally Streak has an increasing cost so if I've already used Streak and it was blocked I can use the Frags instead for CC and not have to wait for the Streak cool down to expire.

    so for you its not dodged by shuffle or block most of the time

    Sometimes it is, most of the times not. If it was always dodged or blocked no-one would run the skill, would they?

    well I can see how its a nerf but its not as bad as petrify into melee range

    I don't disagree with that, but they are both stupid changes imo.

    Wrobel: "I buffed Crystal Blast so it's more of a dilemma which to pick. Oh, so you still say blast is crap? I'll nerf Frags then"

    later on...

    Wrobel: "I buffed Petrify so it doesn't break on damage. Oh so people complain it's too strong now? Okay, I'll nerf it and make it worse than it was before I touched it"

    Whenever he looks at skills, this man fecks them up. How he is still in charge of combat and abilities is beyond me.
    EU | PC | AD
  • DeHei
    DeHei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    You sorcs will also have enough CC and damage! So why this change is a big problem for you. Its not a nerf from a class to ground...
    This is just 1 nerf for a class, where the majority of player show, that they cant handle just 1 nerf! Shame on you guys. Maybe you should player weaker classes to know, that sorcs have abilities for nearly every situation. Just learn to play with it!
    DeHei - EP Magicka Templar Allrounder
    De Hei(Youtube)
  • Apherius
    Apherius
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    ✭✭
    Wouah , so much great possibility with crystal blast in PVE :

    crystal blast - crystal blast - crystal blast - crytal blast - crystal blast - crystal blast - crystal balst - crystal blast - crytal blast - crystal blast

    Wouahouh ! this rotation is so fun , oh my bad i forget the HA ...

    Seriously ....

    btw here a list of what you SHOULD NOT DO wrobel :
    • You should not remove the crystal fragment proc to make both morph ... interesting
    • You should not remove the crystal fragment burst ( 10% more damage ) and add it to crystal blast to make both morph ... interesting
    • You should not increase the damage of the crystal blast to make both morph interresting ( do you really want use to play a potatoe gameplay for the rest of ... i mean i would delete my sorc in this case )
    • You should not just increase the CC duration of crystal blast ... this won't change anything , the morph would stay garbage
    • So much things that you should not do !
    I mean ... just reverse the change and try to make to second morph interesting by buffing or changing the base morph . You could make it a stamina sorc skill , a sorc healer skill, a sorc tank skill ?

    you could make so much greath thing with this morph without nerf the other one ... cause a crystal that you incant isn't really " original " .. potatoes already exist in Irl and it's what i call a copy past.
    Edited by Apherius on October 2, 2017 6:20PM
  • GrigorijMalahevich
    GrigorijMalahevich
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Apherius wrote: »
    Wouah , so much great possibility with crystal blast in PVE :

    crystal blast - crystal blast - crystal blast - crytal blast - crystal blast - crystal blast - crystal balst - crystal blast - crytal blast - crystal blast

    Wouahouh ! this rotation is so fun , oh my bad i forget the HA ...

    Seriously ....

    btw here a list of what you SHOULD NOT DO wrobel :
    • You should not remove the crystal fragment proc to make both morph ... interesting
    • You should not remove the crystal fragment burst ( 10% more damage ) and add it to crystal blast to make both morph ... interesting
    • You should not increase the damage of the crystal blast to make both morph interresting ( do you really want use to play a potatoe gameplay for the rest of ... i mean i would delete my sorc in this case )
    • You should not just increase the CC duration of crystal blast ... this won't change anything , the morph would stay garbage
    • So much things that you should not do !
    I mean ... just reverse the change and try to make to second morph interesting by buffing or changing the base morph . You could make it a stamina sorc skill , a sorc healer skill, a sorc tank skill ?

    you could make so much greath thing with this morph without nerf the other one ... cause a crystal that you incant isn't really " original " .. potatoes already exist in Irl and it's what i call a copy past.

    Haha, you win.

    Another great idea that Wrobel shouldn't do - when frag procs and is blocked or dodged it comes back at the caster with tripple damage. Because magsorc has so many CC and because of reasons.

    We should make a pool - who still uses streak and how many times per hour of PvP you die to streakbug?

    How many magsorcs use rune prison on main/support bar in solo play? Retoric question btw. And how many sorcs have defensive rune on 3rd bar? Another retoric question.

    How many magsorcs time bursts with familiar stun? Probably only a percentage of petsorcs...

    You people don't understand that the game is totally changing the magsorc mechanics.

    Can someone tell me, please, if this "not nerf" is live on PTS right now? I will download PTS to finally unleash the real magsorc power.

    @templesus I never bothered with grinding, as soon as I hit cp160 in 2 days of playing - I got basic PvP sets and went to no cp Cyro and left PvP only for vMA or to quickgrind another vMA character to get flawless. I understand that you have very high thoughts about your ESO knowledge/skill/ego, but please be aware that I give no intercourses about that as your comments point out that you have very low understanding of magsorcs PvP mechanics, sorry, your years of ESO didn't do you any good. You are just another kill count on my addon bar when I think "wow this guy has 900cp must be really good"... "oh well, that wasn't fun"

    P.S. Keep your feces to yourself
    PC/EU 800 CP.
    PvP MagSorc.
    Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
    Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
    Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
    Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq
  • WreckfulAbandon
    WreckfulAbandon
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The stun was great during outnumbered situations. The skill loses some versatility so some are not enthusiastic about it. So yeah... if you don't mind the nerf that's fine. But until the change goes live I will call it out for the unneeded change it is.
    PC NA

    All my comments are regarding PvP
  • HoloYoitsu
    HoloYoitsu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    DeHei wrote: »
    You sorcs will also have enough CC and damage! So why this change is a big problem for you. Its not a nerf from a class to ground...
    This is just 1 nerf for a class, where the majority of player show, that they cant handle just 1 nerf! Shame on you guys. Maybe you should player weaker classes to know, that sorcs have abilities for nearly every situation. Just learn to play with it!
    Can't handle one nerf? That's a pretty specious line to tout in a game where every class and pretty much every gameplay mechanic has been nerfed multiple times. Even if we look just at Frags, it was already nerfed in Morrowind.

    I can play that game to:
    Fossilize nerf: "You DKs will also have enough CC and damage! So why this change is a big problem for you."
    Shards nerf: "You Templars will also have enough CC and damage! So why this change is a big problem for you."

    Hm that's weird, even though I just said that those changes are still dumb, how can that be?
    Cyrodiil (the PvP map) is open-world and supports up to 2000 players in it at the same time. ESO’s client is designed to be able to handle (on the recommended spec) 200 players on screen at the same time.
  • Defilted
    Defilted
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well my mag warden will now enjoy the free Ultimate of frags with no CC. Thank you ZOS.
    XBOX NA
    XBOX Series X

    #NightmareBear
  • Rickter
    Rickter
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I feel like this is the exact same thing as Wrecking Blow v Dizzying Swing.

    and yeah i rad the comments about how its not hte same thing but i man it is. 2h had to be within 10 meters, CF could be insta cast when procc'd which is generally how people use CF anyways.

    so to me, the interruptibility of CF v 2h is negligible as 2h you had to be up close and CF could be insta cast when procc'd.

    RickterESO
    PC | NA | DC
    YouTube
    ______________________
    Guilds:
    Requiem GM | Dark Sisterhood Blood Knight | Legend Mod | Legend GvG Mod
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    Bloodletter | StamDK | Alliance Rank 46 | Former Emperor of Shor (2018) | Former Emperor of Thornblade #4terms (2015)
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