The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Crystal Frags nerf?! No stun
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Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
I'm sorry, is dizzying swing interruptable?KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.KramUzibra wrote: »Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.
My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.
It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
...so go on, I'm waiting.
Stam dk has an instant spammable dmg skill?
Dizzying Swing is a DK ability? So Sorc does have class spammable in Crushing Shock, right? You're digging yourself into a pretty deep hole here.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT12 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
I'm sorry, is dizzying swing interruptable?KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.KramUzibra wrote: »Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.
My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.
It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
...so go on, I'm waiting.
Stam dk has an instant spammable dmg skill?
Oh my mistake lol I thought you said "class" ability. I guess an outsourced ability that has a cast time and is canceled if your target kites any thing or walks through you is "instant" haha let's just ignore frags flying through trees.Edited by KramUzibra on October 1, 2017 8:11PM3 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Like it or not Templar has jabs as the primary spammable dps.HoloYoitsu wrote: »The very reason Frags has the stun to begin with is that sorc doesn't have a class spammable dps. Frags is sorc's primary dps skill, the CC is meant to offset the cast time/fishing for procs.
Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC. At this point you're just grasping at straws because you want CF to CC. That's totally fine. But you're not a Developer. You're really not in any position to make claims regarding the origin of the skill design by saying what the CC is or was meant to offset. And, anyway, clearly the actual Developers disagree since they're removing the CC.
The argument you just put forth literally boils down to "you disagree with what the devs are thinking of doing so your opinion is invalid." This very forum's existence contradicts that.
Please, do keep trying to pull the coy crap. The comment specifically referenced stam DK, stam DK primary dps comes from dizzying swing, minus the permablocking tank builds that are running s/b and the odd few bow builds. That was a deliberate bait to then come back as you have now and go "dur that's a weapon ability".KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
I'm sorry, is dizzying swing interruptable?KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.KramUzibra wrote: »Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.
My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.
It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
...so go on, I'm waiting.
Stam dk has an instant spammable dmg skill?
Oh my mistake lol I thought you said "class" ability. I guess an outsourced ability that has a cast time and is canceled if your target kites any thing or walks through you is "instant" haha let's just ignore frags flying through trees.
The entire point of this tangent was comparing core dps sources. Stam builds draw from weapon skills because that's where their killing power skills are located, mag builds draw from class skills. Crushing shock is nice and all but are you going to seriously make the case that the sorc's killing power does not primarily come from frags?
If you're gona talk about frags going through los, you'll also have to complain about every other projectile in the game.0 -
Can they nerf fear plz?
"My heart betrayed, I took her soul,
Cracked it with vicious fray,
Eternal now will be her pain,
'Tis the fate of Alanwe"0 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Like it or not Templar has jabs as the primary spammable dps.HoloYoitsu wrote: »The very reason Frags has the stun to begin with is that sorc doesn't have a class spammable dps. Frags is sorc's primary dps skill, the CC is meant to offset the cast time/fishing for procs.
Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC. At this point you're just grasping at straws because you want CF to CC. That's totally fine. But you're not a Developer. You're really not in any position to make claims regarding the origin of the skill design by saying what the CC is or was meant to offset. And, anyway, clearly the actual Developers disagree since they're removing the CC.
The argument you just put forth literally boils down to "you disagree with what the devs are thinking of doing so your opinion is invalid." This very forum's existence contradicts that.
Please, do keep trying to pull the coy crap. The comment specifically referenced stam DK, stam DK primary dps comes from dizzying swing, minus the permablocking tank builds that are running s/b and the odd few bow builds. That was a deliberate bait to then come back as you have now and go "dur that's a weapon ability".KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
I'm sorry, is dizzying swing interruptable?KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.KramUzibra wrote: »Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.
My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.
It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
...so go on, I'm waiting.
Stam dk has an instant spammable dmg skill?
Oh my mistake lol I thought you said "class" ability. I guess an outsourced ability that has a cast time and is canceled if your target kites any thing or walks through you is "instant" haha let's just ignore frags flying through trees.
The entire point of this tangent was comparing core dps sources. Stam builds draw from weapon skills because that's where their killing power skills are located, mag builds draw from class skills. Crushing shock is nice and all but are you going to seriously make the case that the sorc's killing power does not primarily come from frags?
If you're gona talk about frags going through los, you'll also have to complain about every other projectile in the game.
Either way uppercut and frags both have a cast that has counters and soon just like uppercut with drags you will have to make a choice, either more potential damage or cc. Oh and drags is better since you can use it from a distanceEdited by KramUzibra on October 1, 2017 9:01PM0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Like it or not Templar has jabs as the primary spammable dps.HoloYoitsu wrote: »The very reason Frags has the stun to begin with is that sorc doesn't have a class spammable dps. Frags is sorc's primary dps skill, the CC is meant to offset the cast time/fishing for procs.
Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC. At this point you're just grasping at straws because you want CF to CC. That's totally fine. But you're not a Developer. You're really not in any position to make claims regarding the origin of the skill design by saying what the CC is or was meant to offset. And, anyway, clearly the actual Developers disagree since they're removing the CC.
The argument you just put forth literally boils down to "you disagree with what the devs are thinking of doing so your opinion is invalid." This very forum's existence contradicts that.
Please, do keep trying to pull the coy crap. The comment specifically referenced stam DK, stam DK primary dps comes from dizzying swing, minus the permablocking tank builds that are running s/b and the odd few bow builds. That was a deliberate bait to then come back as you have now and go "dur that's a weapon ability".KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
I'm sorry, is dizzying swing interruptable?KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.KramUzibra wrote: »Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.
My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.
It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
...so go on, I'm waiting.
Stam dk has an instant spammable dmg skill?
Oh my mistake lol I thought you said "class" ability. I guess an outsourced ability that has a cast time and is canceled if your target kites any thing or walks through you is "instant" haha let's just ignore frags flying through trees.
The entire point of this tangent was comparing core dps sources. Stam builds draw from weapon skills because that's where their killing power skills are located, mag builds draw from class skills. Crushing shock is nice and all but are you going to seriously make the case that the sorc's killing power does not primarily come from frags?
If you're gona talk about frags going through los, you'll also have to complain about every other projectile in the game.
No my argument boils down to the fact that you're not an authority on why some skills have a CC attached to them while others don't. So it's pointless to claim, as you do, that CF somehow needs to have a CC for some artificial reasons that you've just now deemed relevant. Forums are indeed for feedback. Forums are not so players can pretend to be Developers by pretending to know why some skills do A and others B.
I've been reading through this thread and all you're doing is making bizarre comparisons that don't make any sense. As I pointed out, there are other channeled cast time abilities which do not CC. Just like there are other classes who do not have a class-specific spammable. You're grasping at straws and it's showing.
You would be better off to argue simply why the removal of the CC is an unnecessary change and then go on to cite actual gameplay examples. Speaking for myself, that might persuade me (I'm on the fence on this issue, I don't think CF needs the stun, but I also think the removal is rather unnecessary) so perhaps it will also persuade the Developers.
But saying things that are patently and demonstrably not true (i.e., that a channeled and cast-time ability must have a CC attached to it) just makes it sound like you're speaking from a platform of irrational passion rather than reason. It also doesn't help to claim, as you do, that because Sorcs lack a class spammable CF somehow needs a CC. That's just non-sequitur.Edited by Kilandros on October 1, 2017 9:13PMInvictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Can someone explain what exactly is the difference between Rune Prison on Live and Rune Prison on the PTS?
From what I recall, Rune Prison is a disorient, which means it cannot be blocked and CCs opponents. Being a disorient the CC stays on the target until it is broken either by a CC break or by direct damage (as per the morph). I don;t remember if Rune Prison could be dodged, but maybe they couldn't be (petrify for instance was a disorient that could not be dodged, or at least I don't think so).
So on Live right now, sorcs can pretty much auto CC anyone without immunity within 28 meters. Yet just about all sorcerers chose the Defensive rune morph. Before Wrobel decided he had to nerf Crystal Frags, he came to the conclusion the capacity for a sorc to CC anyone without immunity within 28 meters was strong and warranted adjustments ... but couldn't sorcerers already do this? Why were sorcerers going to abandon their previous choice on Live?
Well, templers lost their cc on shards because they couldn't fix that burning light broke the cc. The warden birds are undodge able because the animation was too slow. The vampire ulti does no longer make you invisible since they couldn't fix that everything broke invisibility. Camo hunter did 1shot ppl in pvp so they removed the active skill completely. Petrify is now only melee because you should use stone fist.
You see the pattern? And you ask really why the make things like that?
I know why Zos is doing stuff like this - in their minds homogenization and ripping the soul out of classes constitutes "improvement." What I am not sure is what are the practical differences between the rune Prison on Live and the one on PTS. As far as I know, if I am disoriented then I am CCed even if I am blocking and I am 9 times out of 10 going to cc break it before taking direct damage (unless I am getting zerged down). If I am stun with what's on PTS, I am CCed even if I am blocking and will 10 times out of 10 going to cc break.
I do agree a stun the goes through block is on paper stronger than a disorient because the target can't get bailed out by direct damage (and I'm still not sure how disorient interacts with dodge). But that's an Xv1 situation and if sorcerers valued the defensive aspect of Defensive Rune, I'm not sure I comprehend what makes what's on the PTS so much more appealing that would prompt Wrobel to make these further changes with regards to sorcerers.
So just asking for clarification.
If you desire a defensive skill, then that's your choice.
But in most video games, and in many other things, favoring defense... hinders offense!
If a Templar wants to even attempt to kill someone, they have to leave their GROUND BASED defensive buffs behind and go to their target. If a Dragonknight wants to kill someone, because of lack of an execute, they can't use a defensive ultimate like Spell Wall and be able to finish someone off, they have to save up ultimate for a Dragon Leap or something to get the enemy into range of death from their DoTs. Same goes for Nightblades having to leave stealth to reliably kill a good player, and so on.
You can't just start crying now that Sorcerer is beginning to get the same treatment.
You want to be bulky and defensive? Slot skills in favor of that playstyle. You want to be aggressive and deadly? Switch Defensive Rune (a skill unlike any other in the game in its protective capability) to its opposite morph which will now have the best, most reliable kill assistance of any CC in PvP.1 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Like it or not Templar has jabs as the primary spammable dps.HoloYoitsu wrote: »The very reason Frags has the stun to begin with is that sorc doesn't have a class spammable dps. Frags is sorc's primary dps skill, the CC is meant to offset the cast time/fishing for procs.
Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC. At this point you're just grasping at straws because you want CF to CC. That's totally fine. But you're not a Developer. You're really not in any position to make claims regarding the origin of the skill design by saying what the CC is or was meant to offset. And, anyway, clearly the actual Developers disagree since they're removing the CC.
The argument you just put forth literally boils down to "you disagree with what the devs are thinking of doing so your opinion is invalid." This very forum's existence contradicts that.
Please, do keep trying to pull the coy crap. The comment specifically referenced stam DK, stam DK primary dps comes from dizzying swing, minus the permablocking tank builds that are running s/b and the odd few bow builds. That was a deliberate bait to then come back as you have now and go "dur that's a weapon ability".KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
I'm sorry, is dizzying swing interruptable?KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.KramUzibra wrote: »Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.
My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.
It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
...so go on, I'm waiting.
Stam dk has an instant spammable dmg skill?
Oh my mistake lol I thought you said "class" ability. I guess an outsourced ability that has a cast time and is canceled if your target kites any thing or walks through you is "instant" haha let's just ignore frags flying through trees.
The entire point of this tangent was comparing core dps sources. Stam builds draw from weapon skills because that's where their killing power skills are located, mag builds draw from class skills. Crushing shock is nice and all but are you going to seriously make the case that the sorc's killing power does not primarily come from frags?
If you're gona talk about frags going through los, you'll also have to complain about every other projectile in the game.
No my argument boils down to the fact that you're not an authority on why some skills have a CC attached to them while others don't. So it's pointless to claim, as you do, that CF somehow needs to have a CC for some artificial reasons that you've just now deemed relevant. Forums are indeed for feedback. Forums are not so players can pretend to be Developers by pretending to know why some skills do A and others B.
I've been reading through this thread and all you're doing is making bizarre comparisons that don't make any sense. As I pointed out, there are other channeled cast time abilities which do not CC. Just like there are other classes who do not have a class-specific spammable. You're grasping at straws and it's showing.
You would be better off to argue simply why the removal of the CC is an unnecessary change and then go on to cite actual gameplay examples. Speaking for myself, that might persuade me (I'm on the fence on this issue, I don't think CF needs the stun, but I also think the removal is rather unnecessary) so perhaps it will also persuade the Developers.
But saying things that are patently and demonstrably not true (i.e., that a channeled and cast-time ability must have a CC attached to it) just makes it sound like you're speaking from a platform of misguided passion rather than reason. It also doesn't help to claim, as you do, that because Sorcs lack a class spammable CF somehow needs a CC. That's just non-sequitur.
Well then here's an easy litmus test:
How many ppl were complaining about the CC attatched to cfrags?
Is there a dearth of counters to hard-hitting ranged projectiles in-game, needing a change to redress the balance?
None and no. But people complain that they die fast because they are squishy, and the way sorcs set up burst many want to skip the L2P and just stop getting blown up from 80% health and above.
Which is understandable I suppose, but stuff like this really pisses me off because I fight top tier players and there are some setups that are nigh impossible to counter like a well-built stamina warden. DoT builds wreck shields. But let's just keep up the pinprick nerfs to sorcs to satisfy the plebs.
That's right, I said it, sorc nerfs. Streak nerf. Frag dmg nerf. Shield strength nerf (needed). Shield duration nerf (needed but could easily have done 8 sec). Let's see, there's the fact that spell resistance is easier to stack than physical. Magic projectiles are easier to reflect than physical. Gap closers don't have exponential cost increase like streak does. Sorcs have no native defile.
Most sorcs have around 20k health and are one lag spike/CC away from death. I'm not saying sorc is a bad class, but most are fairly predictable. Predictable enough that experienced players shouldn't have disproportionate trouble with them.PC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP3 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@HoloYoitsu dizzying swing can be cancelled by moving through the player or far enough away from them. Dizzying swing is not instant and it is just as easily dodgeable as frags. I don’t give a crap about dizzying swing, frags in general hits harder and is far more annoying to deal with.6 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@HoloYoitsu dizzying swing can be cancelled by moving through the player or far enough away from them. Dizzying swing is not instant and it is just as easily dodgeable as frags. I don’t give a crap about dizzying swing, frags in general hits harder and is far more annoying to deal with.
Not to mention someone using dizzying swing usually doesn't have a curse and a wrath running on you that will finish you off as soon as the swing connects.6 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »The very reason Frags has the stun to begin with is that sorc doesn't have a class spammable dps. Frags is sorc's primary dps skill, the CC is meant to offset the cast time/fishing for procs.
I'd love to see the actual dev post stating that fact.
Because i don't see how either of them are related.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
I'm sorry, is dizzying swing interruptable?KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.KramUzibra wrote: »Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.
My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.
It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
...so go on, I'm waiting.
Stam dk has an instant spammable dmg skill?
I'm sorry can I hit you with Dizzying Swing from 40 meters away?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos4 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@HoloYoitsu dizzying swing can be cancelled by moving through the player or far enough away from them. Dizzying swing is not instant and it is just as easily dodgeable as frags. I don’t give a crap about dizzying swing, frags in general hits harder and is far more annoying to deal with.
Not to mention someone using dizzying swing usually doesn't have a curse and a wrath running on you that will finish you off as soon as the swing connects.
No, but he very likely has a Dragon Leap and an Executioner that will do very much the same.EU | PC | AD0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭trashcannot wrote: »Can they nerf fear plz?
They did, did you miss the patch notes?EU | PC | AD1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Like it or not Templar has jabs as the primary spammable dps.HoloYoitsu wrote: »The very reason Frags has the stun to begin with is that sorc doesn't have a class spammable dps. Frags is sorc's primary dps skill, the CC is meant to offset the cast time/fishing for procs.
Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC. At this point you're just grasping at straws because you want CF to CC. That's totally fine. But you're not a Developer. You're really not in any position to make claims regarding the origin of the skill design by saying what the CC is or was meant to offset. And, anyway, clearly the actual Developers disagree since they're removing the CC.
The argument you just put forth literally boils down to "you disagree with what the devs are thinking of doing so your opinion is invalid." This very forum's existence contradicts that.
Please, do keep trying to pull the coy crap. The comment specifically referenced stam DK, stam DK primary dps comes from dizzying swing, minus the permablocking tank builds that are running s/b and the odd few bow builds. That was a deliberate bait to then come back as you have now and go "dur that's a weapon ability".KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
I'm sorry, is dizzying swing interruptable?KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.KramUzibra wrote: »Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.
My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.
It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
...so go on, I'm waiting.
Stam dk has an instant spammable dmg skill?
Oh my mistake lol I thought you said "class" ability. I guess an outsourced ability that has a cast time and is canceled if your target kites any thing or walks through you is "instant" haha let's just ignore frags flying through trees.
The entire point of this tangent was comparing core dps sources. Stam builds draw from weapon skills because that's where their killing power skills are located, mag builds draw from class skills. Crushing shock is nice and all but are you going to seriously make the case that the sorc's killing power does not primarily come from frags?
If you're gona talk about frags going through los, you'll also have to complain about every other projectile in the game.
Ok a few things wrong with this
First you stated Sorcs don't have a class spammable ability therefor Crystal Frags needs CC
When someone pointed out Stamina DK's, you said they have Dizzying Swing, which is not a Class Ability....
and Stamina Builds Draw from weapon skills for their i assume primary spammable? What about Stamina NB's and Templars?
Sorcs have a spammable ability....in the form of Crushing Shock..its on Destro Staff
and if you say DW, i'm going to say Mage's Fury and point out that it was used forever to proc Crystal Frags
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos4 -
quake89✭✭✭Whether frags should or should not have cc is irrelevant what is relevant is that the decision to take the cc away from crystal fragments was to incentivise taking crystal blast.
First of all balance shouldn't be decided hey this is the superior morph let's take something from this and give it to this. That just promotes lazy habits that will ultimately lead to further issues down the road.
Secondly I get the idea was to make people chose between damage and cc much like the charges to uppercut however there is one fundamental difference and that is that the cast time.
My suggestion is allow blast the chance to proc however remove the aoe damage and allow it to cc
What also could be considered is to increase the damage on fragments back to 20% to compensate for the loss of cc or at least allow 15% rather than 10.
This would then promote the dilemma of a.meaningful.choice for.a.player to make especially if you also increase the cost of rune prison as mentioned
PC -EU3 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Like it or not Templar has jabs as the primary spammable dps.HoloYoitsu wrote: »The very reason Frags has the stun to begin with is that sorc doesn't have a class spammable dps. Frags is sorc's primary dps skill, the CC is meant to offset the cast time/fishing for procs.
Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC. At this point you're just grasping at straws because you want CF to CC. That's totally fine. But you're not a Developer. You're really not in any position to make claims regarding the origin of the skill design by saying what the CC is or was meant to offset. And, anyway, clearly the actual Developers disagree since they're removing the CC.
The argument you just put forth literally boils down to "you disagree with what the devs are thinking of doing so your opinion is invalid." This very forum's existence contradicts that.
Please, do keep trying to pull the coy crap. The comment specifically referenced stam DK, stam DK primary dps comes from dizzying swing, minus the permablocking tank builds that are running s/b and the odd few bow builds. That was a deliberate bait to then come back as you have now and go "dur that's a weapon ability".KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
I'm sorry, is dizzying swing interruptable?KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.KramUzibra wrote: »Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.
My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.
It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
...so go on, I'm waiting.
Stam dk has an instant spammable dmg skill?
Oh my mistake lol I thought you said "class" ability. I guess an outsourced ability that has a cast time and is canceled if your target kites any thing or walks through you is "instant" haha let's just ignore frags flying through trees.
The entire point of this tangent was comparing core dps sources. Stam builds draw from weapon skills because that's where their killing power skills are located, mag builds draw from class skills. Crushing shock is nice and all but are you going to seriously make the case that the sorc's killing power does not primarily come from frags?
If you're gona talk about frags going through los, you'll also have to complain about every other projectile in the game.
No my argument boils down to the fact that you're not an authority on why some skills have a CC attached to them while others don't. So it's pointless to claim, as you do, that CF somehow needs to have a CC for some artificial reasons that you've just now deemed relevant. Forums are indeed for feedback. Forums are not so players can pretend to be Developers by pretending to know why some skills do A and others B.
I've been reading through this thread and all you're doing is making bizarre comparisons that don't make any sense. As I pointed out, there are other channeled cast time abilities which do not CC. Just like there are other classes who do not have a class-specific spammable. You're grasping at straws and it's showing.
You would be better off to argue simply why the removal of the CC is an unnecessary change and then go on to cite actual gameplay examples. Speaking for myself, that might persuade me (I'm on the fence on this issue, I don't think CF needs the stun, but I also think the removal is rather unnecessary) so perhaps it will also persuade the Developers.
But saying things that are patently and demonstrably not true (i.e., that a channeled and cast-time ability must have a CC attached to it) just makes it sound like you're speaking from a platform of misguided passion rather than reason. It also doesn't help to claim, as you do, that because Sorcs lack a class spammable CF somehow needs a CC. That's just non-sequitur.
Well then here's an easy litmus test:
How many ppl were complaining about the CC attatched to cfrags?
Is there a dearth of counters to hard-hitting ranged projectiles in-game, needing a change to redress the balance?
None and no. But people complain that they die fast because they are squishy, and the way sorcs set up burst many want to skip the L2P and just stop getting blown up from 80% health and above.
Which is understandable I suppose, but stuff like this really pisses me off because I fight top tier players and there are some setups that are nigh impossible to counter like a well-built stamina warden. DoT builds wreck shields. But let's just keep up the pinprick nerfs to sorcs to satisfy the plebs.
That's right, I said it, sorc nerfs. Streak nerf. Frag dmg nerf. Shield strength nerf (needed). Shield duration nerf (needed but could easily have done 8 sec). Let's see, there's the fact that spell resistance is easier to stack than physical. Magic projectiles are easier to reflect than physical. Gap closers don't have exponential cost increase like streak does. Sorcs have no native defile.
Most sorcs have around 20k health and are one lag spike/CC away from death. I'm not saying sorc is a bad class, but most are fairly predictable. Predictable enough that experienced players shouldn't have disproportionate trouble with them.
You start off strong. Why so few complaints about the stun of CF? Because most players are either already stunned if they're taking the full CF damage; they're blocking the CF because they're paying attention to the Curse countdown and they know when the burst is coming; or they're getting zerged in which case CF is honestly the least of their worries since they already have 2-3 Soul Assaults on them.
Speaking from my own experience, I rarely get CC'd by a CF in a make-or-break situation. I know when to block. Or if it's just some random CF thrown at me from 35m away it's usually not much concern. The Sorcs who kill me did so because they got an unblockable CC off on me (like a Dawnbreaker) a split second before Curse was about to pop and then hit me with a fully powered CF.
That's why, as I've said a bunch of times already, I don't understand the removal of the CC--nor do I understand the hysteria around the removal of the CC. The CC is great for farming pugs and making 1vX vids off players who haven't yet discovered impen. But in fights against good players the CC just wasn't ever that reliable to begin with.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT1 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
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That's nice, lemme know when I can start reflecting/absorbing dizzying swings. This is just getting pedantic at this point, show me a coherent argument for why Frags CC is suddenly so OP it needs to be deleted from the game, whereas a month ago complaints about the CC were pretty much laughed off the forum.@HoloYoitsu dizzying swing can be cancelled by moving through the player or far enough away from them. Dizzying swing is not instant and it is just as easily dodgeable as frags. I don’t give a crap about dizzying swing, frags in general hits harder and is far more annoying to deal with.
Is it the rune cage change? Despite the fact that CC-less frags combos more strongly with that than the current frags? Even if so, why not then argue to just leave both skills alone?1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
That's nice, lemme know when I can start reflecting/absorbing dizzying swings. This is just getting pedantic at this point, show me a coherent argument for why Frags CC is suddenly so OP it needs to be deleted from the game, whereas a month ago complaints about the CC were pretty much laughed off the forum.@HoloYoitsu dizzying swing can be cancelled by moving through the player or far enough away from them. Dizzying swing is not instant and it is just as easily dodgeable as frags. I don’t give a crap about dizzying swing, frags in general hits harder and is far more annoying to deal with.
Is it the rune cage change? Despite the fact that CC-less frags combos more strongly with that than the current frags? Even if so, why not then argue to just leave both skills alone?
Reading this thread I don't think it's people arguing that the CC on CF is OP. It's people arguing against the Sorcerers who are in hysterics claiming that this breaks CF. It doesn't.
The stun on CF has been one of the most unreliable and irrelevant stuns in the game for awhile now. That's why I (A) don't quite understand its removal but also why (B) I don't understand why Sorcs are freaking out over it.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT3 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
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Sorcs freak out about it because no one likes unwarranted nerfs. And most sorcs don't want to be forced into front barring rune cage and losing a skill slot.HoloYoitsu wrote: »
That's nice, lemme know when I can start reflecting/absorbing dizzying swings. This is just getting pedantic at this point, show me a coherent argument for why Frags CC is suddenly so OP it needs to be deleted from the game, whereas a month ago complaints about the CC were pretty much laughed off the forum.@HoloYoitsu dizzying swing can be cancelled by moving through the player or far enough away from them. Dizzying swing is not instant and it is just as easily dodgeable as frags. I don’t give a crap about dizzying swing, frags in general hits harder and is far more annoying to deal with.
Is it the rune cage change? Despite the fact that CC-less frags combos more strongly with that than the current frags? Even if so, why not then argue to just leave both skills alone?
Reading this thread I don't think it's people arguing that the CC on CF is OP. It's people arguing against the Sorcerers who are in hysterics claiming that this breaks CF. It doesn't.
The stun on CF has been one of the most unreliable and irrelevant stuns in the game for awhile now. That's why I (A) don't quite understand its removal but also why (B) I don't understand why Sorcs are freaking out over it.2 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Sorcs freak out about it because no one likes unwarranted nerfs. And most sorcs don't want to be forced into front barring rune cage and losing a skill slot.HoloYoitsu wrote: »
That's nice, lemme know when I can start reflecting/absorbing dizzying swings. This is just getting pedantic at this point, show me a coherent argument for why Frags CC is suddenly so OP it needs to be deleted from the game, whereas a month ago complaints about the CC were pretty much laughed off the forum.@HoloYoitsu dizzying swing can be cancelled by moving through the player or far enough away from them. Dizzying swing is not instant and it is just as easily dodgeable as frags. I don’t give a crap about dizzying swing, frags in general hits harder and is far more annoying to deal with.
Is it the rune cage change? Despite the fact that CC-less frags combos more strongly with that than the current frags? Even if so, why not then argue to just leave both skills alone?
Reading this thread I don't think it's people arguing that the CC on CF is OP. It's people arguing against the Sorcerers who are in hysterics claiming that this breaks CF. It doesn't.
The stun on CF has been one of the most unreliable and irrelevant stuns in the game for awhile now. That's why I (A) don't quite understand its removal but also why (B) I don't understand why Sorcs are freaking out over it.
I totally agree it's an unwarranted nerf. But it's not a sky is falling nerf.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT3 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
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Again that's false there many players with max cp who just doesn't know what they are doing.Just because I have max CP doesn't mean I have experience in anything that matter you can get max from fighting mobs which won't help you in pvp.you can probably get caps if all you did was pick flowers and fight the mobs you came across .Have Max cp means nothing when it comes to things that matter In the game.If you know how everything works and flow together I guarantee ill beat someone with a 300 cp character of I know how the game works and skills flow together better than him.
Yea if you think Cp cap mean you know more about the game your view on things are very jaded.It just mean your grinded more than someone else.CP doesn't equal skill or game knowledge.Valera Progib wrote: »Valera Progib wrote: »Valera Progib wrote: »
Streak is broken and can snare you. Rune prison - no sorc runs it in solo play, pet stun is only with pet active.Valera Progib wrote: »Wow, that must be a most stupid nerf in the history of ESO... now magsorc has no stun...
I was playing with defensive rune on resto bar for 2 years and now probably it is the only was to stun anyone.
Magsorc in PvP always tries to cast proced frags when enemy is in close range, now this change will completely destroy current magsorc playstyle.
Glad I cancelled my subscription...
I hope you are being sarcastic. Rune prison, streak, pet stun?
No, I am not being sarcrastic, but you are clueless.
Lol? Because nobody runs it means that’s its not a good stun? It’s going to be the best cc in the game next patch. Try applying logic to your argument next time around. Stop QQing just because you can’t cc with frag and trying to make it look like sorc is in a bad spot because of it.
Nobody runs it because it is useless in solo play, arguing that is on a very high level of stupidity, you should apply logic, kid.
Rune prison will be overused in group PvP, that has nothing to do with duels or soloplay...
First off this is balance, no game EVER balances ANYTHING on duels, so bringing dueling up just completely eradicates any weight your argument had aside from solo play, in which I’ll just assume you’re just another salty sorc because you actually have to run a cc now. Almost all other classes run a single target cc because they HAVE too, what, is sorc to good for that now? L2p
Haha, "salty sorc" I have never complained about anything, I don't mind fighting outnumbered and this change doesn't affect my playstyle in the slightest, as I run defensive rune on resto bar and my burst is already aligned with defensive rune disorient (mostly due to the fact that disorient sometimes bugs and doesn't brake after target takes damage...)
L2P is cool, but you can go and have intercourse with yourself, kid. I don't need cp cap to know how to play this game, people like you do.
Lol yeah ok kiddo keep telling yourself that.
Actually if you’ll go back and read I said that less cp means you have much less experience...which is 100% true
Just because you "know what you're doing" does not mean you have experience. Have you ever applied for a job? There are some majors straight out of college who may know way more about what they're doing then the person who graduated two years before them, but in the end the person who graduated earlier will have more experience because they have been working for the last two years. The same can be said with CP, someone can have 700 cp - having 2 years experience playing the game, vs someone who just started and is at 400 cp with 1 year experience. Your argument "doesnt mean i have experience in anything that matters" has nothing to do with my claim that people with less cp have less experience then those with more. Furthermore you tried to make a counterclaim that some cap cps have no idea what they are doing, but i never said they did, i simply said they have more experience
counterclaim nulled. 2 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Can someone explain what exactly is the difference between Rune Prison on Live and Rune Prison on the PTS?
From what I recall, Rune Prison is a disorient, which means it cannot be blocked and CCs opponents. Being a disorient the CC stays on the target until it is broken either by a CC break or by direct damage (as per the morph). Since most semi-competant opponents immediate CC breaks stuns, what exactly was the functional difference? I don;t remember if Rune Prison could be dodged, but maybe it couldn't be (petrify for instance was a disorient that could not be dodged, or at least I don't think so).
So on Live right now, sorcs can pretty much auto CC anyone without immunity within 28 meters. Yet just about all sorcerers chose the Defensive rune morph. Before Wrobel decided he had to nerf Crystal Frags, he came to the conclusion the capacity for a sorc to CC anyone without immunity within 28 meters was strong and warranted adjustments ... but couldn't sorcerers already do this? Why were sorcerers going to abandon their previous choice on Live?
Draining Shot is a disorient and it can be blocked. Fairly certain Disorient has nothing to do with being blockable or not.
Disorients ignore block by design. Make a video of draining shot ignoring block and submit as a bug
Yeah, but the disorient is applied after knock back so the disorient part there is just to give everyone cc immunity after first DoT
God, whoever designed that ability needs to be slapped. Magnum shot needs to be 28 meters, just like all other stuns like that. Stone fist, shards, javelin , destructive touch, why on earth it is 10 meters is beyond all logical reasoning.3 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Like it or not Templar has jabs as the primary spammable dps.HoloYoitsu wrote: »The very reason Frags has the stun to begin with is that sorc doesn't have a class spammable dps. Frags is sorc's primary dps skill, the CC is meant to offset the cast time/fishing for procs.
Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC. At this point you're just grasping at straws because you want CF to CC. That's totally fine. But you're not a Developer. You're really not in any position to make claims regarding the origin of the skill design by saying what the CC is or was meant to offset. And, anyway, clearly the actual Developers disagree since they're removing the CC.
The argument you just put forth literally boils down to "you disagree with what the devs are thinking of doing so your opinion is invalid." This very forum's existence contradicts that.
Please, do keep trying to pull the coy crap. The comment specifically referenced stam DK, stam DK primary dps comes from dizzying swing, minus the permablocking tank builds that are running s/b and the odd few bow builds. That was a deliberate bait to then come back as you have now and go "dur that's a weapon ability".KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
I'm sorry, is dizzying swing interruptable?KramUzibra wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Every other class also has an instant cast spammable class dps skill.KramUzibra wrote: »Gonna have to test it out but all things considered I don't think it's the end of the world. It's a major nerf to the skill itself for sure, but also one that presents room for adaptation and innovation of the way sorc is played. While often the stun from frags is essential to securing a kill, equally it sometimes stuns at times that are sub optimal. It's not at all how I'd handle these changes, but I also don't think it's gonna be class breaking in the way that the initial curse nerf would have been. I fully intend to play a dual wield build next patch though and this change is gonna hurt staff builds much more as they don't have as much bar flexibility.
My only hope is that the whining anti-sorc peasantry acknowledges how big of a nerf this is and shuts the *** up. Guarantee if it were flame lash, jabs/sweeps, or any one of the many hallmark NB offensive skills that was getting a core component stripped, the crying and lobbying would be palpable.
It's not really that big of a nerf, beside your given a more reliable cc anyways. Just like every other class must slot a lower dmg or no dmg ability to reliably get a cc sorcs now have to do the same.
...so go on, I'm waiting.
Stam dk has an instant spammable dmg skill?
Oh my mistake lol I thought you said "class" ability. I guess an outsourced ability that has a cast time and is canceled if your target kites any thing or walks through you is "instant" haha let's just ignore frags flying through trees.
The entire point of this tangent was comparing core dps sources. Stam builds draw from weapon skills because that's where their killing power skills are located, mag builds draw from class skills. Crushing shock is nice and all but are you going to seriously make the case that the sorc's killing power does not primarily come from frags?
If you're gona talk about frags going through los, you'll also have to complain about every other projectile in the game.
No my argument boils down to the fact that you're not an authority on why some skills have a CC attached to them while others don't. So it's pointless to claim, as you do, that CF somehow needs to have a CC for some artificial reasons that you've just now deemed relevant. Forums are indeed for feedback. Forums are not so players can pretend to be Developers by pretending to know why some skills do A and others B.
I've been reading through this thread and all you're doing is making bizarre comparisons that don't make any sense. As I pointed out, there are other channeled cast time abilities which do not CC. Just like there are other classes who do not have a class-specific spammable. You're grasping at straws and it's showing.
You would be better off to argue simply why the removal of the CC is an unnecessary change and then go on to cite actual gameplay examples. Speaking for myself, that might persuade me (I'm on the fence on this issue, I don't think CF needs the stun, but I also think the removal is rather unnecessary) so perhaps it will also persuade the Developers.
But saying things that are patently and demonstrably not true (i.e., that a channeled and cast-time ability must have a CC attached to it) just makes it sound like you're speaking from a platform of misguided passion rather than reason. It also doesn't help to claim, as you do, that because Sorcs lack a class spammable CF somehow needs a CC. That's just non-sequitur.
Well then here's an easy litmus test:
How many ppl were complaining about the CC attatched to cfrags?
Is there a dearth of counters to hard-hitting ranged projectiles in-game, needing a change to redress the balance?
None and no. But people complain that they die fast because they are squishy, and the way sorcs set up burst many want to skip the L2P and just stop getting blown up from 80% health and above.
Which is understandable I suppose, but stuff like this really pisses me off because I fight top tier players and there are some setups that are nigh impossible to counter like a well-built stamina warden. DoT builds wreck shields. But let's just keep up the pinprick nerfs to sorcs to satisfy the plebs.
That's right, I said it, sorc nerfs. Streak nerf. Frag dmg nerf. Shield strength nerf (needed). Shield duration nerf (needed but could easily have done 8 sec). Let's see, there's the fact that spell resistance is easier to stack than physical. Magic projectiles are easier to reflect than physical. Gap closers don't have exponential cost increase like streak does. Sorcs have no native defile.
Most sorcs have around 20k health and are one lag spike/CC away from death. I'm not saying sorc is a bad class, but most are fairly predictable. Predictable enough that experienced players shouldn't have disproportionate trouble with them.
You start off strong. Why so few complaints about the stun of CF? Because most players are either already stunned if they're taking the full CF damage; they're blocking the CF because they're paying attention to the Curse countdown and they know when the burst is coming; or they're getting zerged in which case CF is honestly the least of their worries since they already have 2-3 Soul Assaults on them.
Speaking from my own experience, I rarely get CC'd by a CF in a make-or-break situation. I know when to block. Or if it's just some random CF thrown at me from 35m away it's usually not much concern. The Sorcs who kill me did so because they got an unblockable CC off on me (like a Dawnbreaker) a split second before Curse was about to pop and then hit me with a fully powered CF.
That's why, as I've said a bunch of times already, I don't understand the removal of the CC--nor do I understand the hysteria around the removal of the CC. The CC is great for farming pugs and making 1vX vids off players who haven't yet discovered impen. But in fights against good players the CC just wasn't ever that reliable to begin with.
The reason it's annoying isn't cause it's a class-breaking nerf. It's because magsorc is not the undisputed best PvP class like a lot of ppl argue it to be, but it will be nerfed while other overperforming setups likely go unchanged. Things that are blatantly obvious to some go unnoticed by others. Like when PTS feedback correctly identifies a certain mechanic or ability that is problematic, but even after a month the change goes live.Edited by WreckfulAbandon on October 2, 2017 12:39AMPC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP2 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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Which wasn't your original point which you are ignoring which is that just because that person isn't max cp he doesn't know what he talking about.Even when he clearly know more about the game then you do.You used CP as a way to discredit his opinion because he proved yoou wrong.Again 2 years playing the game doing what means nothing when it comes to PvP. There players who have PVP since day 1 and still sucks there players who started 3 months ago who are better than them it means nothing.When it comes to PvP in ESO it doesn't matter I'm damn sure he probably beat you with your 2 years of experience.
Again that's false there many players with max cp who just doesn't know what they are doing.Just because I have max CP doesn't mean I have experience in anything that matter you can get max from fighting mobs which won't help you in pvp.you can probably get caps if all you did was pick flowers and fight the mobs you came across .Have Max cp means nothing when it comes to things that matter In the game.If you know how everything works and flow together I guarantee ill beat someone with a 300 cp character of I know how the game works and skills flow together better than him.
Yea if you think Cp cap mean you know more about the game your view on things are very jaded.It just mean your grinded more than someone else.CP doesn't equal skill or game knowledge.Valera Progib wrote: »Valera Progib wrote: »Valera Progib wrote: »
Streak is broken and can snare you. Rune prison - no sorc runs it in solo play, pet stun is only with pet active.Valera Progib wrote: »Wow, that must be a most stupid nerf in the history of ESO... now magsorc has no stun...
I was playing with defensive rune on resto bar for 2 years and now probably it is the only was to stun anyone.
Magsorc in PvP always tries to cast proced frags when enemy is in close range, now this change will completely destroy current magsorc playstyle.
Glad I cancelled my subscription...
I hope you are being sarcastic. Rune prison, streak, pet stun?
No, I am not being sarcrastic, but you are clueless.
Lol? Because nobody runs it means that’s its not a good stun? It’s going to be the best cc in the game next patch. Try applying logic to your argument next time around. Stop QQing just because you can’t cc with frag and trying to make it look like sorc is in a bad spot because of it.
Nobody runs it because it is useless in solo play, arguing that is on a very high level of stupidity, you should apply logic, kid.
Rune prison will be overused in group PvP, that has nothing to do with duels or soloplay...
First off this is balance, no game EVER balances ANYTHING on duels, so bringing dueling up just completely eradicates any weight your argument had aside from solo play, in which I’ll just assume you’re just another salty sorc because you actually have to run a cc now. Almost all other classes run a single target cc because they HAVE too, what, is sorc to good for that now? L2p
Haha, "salty sorc" I have never complained about anything, I don't mind fighting outnumbered and this change doesn't affect my playstyle in the slightest, as I run defensive rune on resto bar and my burst is already aligned with defensive rune disorient (mostly due to the fact that disorient sometimes bugs and doesn't brake after target takes damage...)
L2P is cool, but you can go and have intercourse with yourself, kid. I don't need cp cap to know how to play this game, people like you do.
Lol yeah ok kiddo keep telling yourself that.
Actually if you’ll go back and read I said that less cp means you have much less experience...which is 100% true
Just because you "know what you're doing" does not mean you have experience. Have you ever applied for a job? There are some majors straight out of college who may know way more about what they're doing then the person who graduated two years before them, but in the end the person who graduated earlier will have more experience because they have been working for the last two years. The same can be said with CP, someone can have 700 cp - having 2 years experience playing the game, vs someone who just started and is at 400 cp with 1 year experience. Your argument "doesnt mean i have experience in anything that matters" has nothing to do with my claim that people with less cp have less experience then those with more. Furthermore you tried to make a counterclaim that some cap cps have no idea what they are doing, but i never said they did, i simply said they have more experience counterclaim nulled.
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templesus✭✭✭✭✭
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Which wasn't your original point which you are ignoring which is that just because that person isn't max cp he doesn't know what he talking about.Even when he clearly know more about the game then you do.You used CP as a way to discredit his opinion because he proved yoou wrong.Again 2 years playing the game doing what means nothing when it comes to PvP. There players who have PVP since day 1 and still sucks there players who started 3 months ago who are better than them it means nothing.When it comes to PvP in ESO it doesn't matter I'm damn sure he probably beat you with your 2 years of experience.
Again that's false there many players with max cp who just doesn't know what they are doing.Just because I have max CP doesn't mean I have experience in anything that matter you can get max from fighting mobs which won't help you in pvp.you can probably get caps if all you did was pick flowers and fight the mobs you came across .Have Max cp means nothing when it comes to things that matter In the game.If you know how everything works and flow together I guarantee ill beat someone with a 300 cp character of I know how the game works and skills flow together better than him.
Yea if you think Cp cap mean you know more about the game your view on things are very jaded.It just mean your grinded more than someone else.CP doesn't equal skill or game knowledge.Valera Progib wrote: »Valera Progib wrote: »Valera Progib wrote: »
Streak is broken and can snare you. Rune prison - no sorc runs it in solo play, pet stun is only with pet active.Valera Progib wrote: »Wow, that must be a most stupid nerf in the history of ESO... now magsorc has no stun...
I was playing with defensive rune on resto bar for 2 years and now probably it is the only was to stun anyone.
Magsorc in PvP always tries to cast proced frags when enemy is in close range, now this change will completely destroy current magsorc playstyle.
Glad I cancelled my subscription...
I hope you are being sarcastic. Rune prison, streak, pet stun?
No, I am not being sarcrastic, but you are clueless.
Lol? Because nobody runs it means that’s its not a good stun? It’s going to be the best cc in the game next patch. Try applying logic to your argument next time around. Stop QQing just because you can’t cc with frag and trying to make it look like sorc is in a bad spot because of it.
Nobody runs it because it is useless in solo play, arguing that is on a very high level of stupidity, you should apply logic, kid.
Rune prison will be overused in group PvP, that has nothing to do with duels or soloplay...
First off this is balance, no game EVER balances ANYTHING on duels, so bringing dueling up just completely eradicates any weight your argument had aside from solo play, in which I’ll just assume you’re just another salty sorc because you actually have to run a cc now. Almost all other classes run a single target cc because they HAVE too, what, is sorc to good for that now? L2p
Haha, "salty sorc" I have never complained about anything, I don't mind fighting outnumbered and this change doesn't affect my playstyle in the slightest, as I run defensive rune on resto bar and my burst is already aligned with defensive rune disorient (mostly due to the fact that disorient sometimes bugs and doesn't brake after target takes damage...)
L2P is cool, but you can go and have intercourse with yourself, kid. I don't need cp cap to know how to play this game, people like you do.
Lol yeah ok kiddo keep telling yourself that.
Actually if you’ll go back and read I said that less cp means you have much less experience...which is 100% true
Just because you "know what you're doing" does not mean you have experience. Have you ever applied for a job? There are some majors straight out of college who may know way more about what they're doing then the person who graduated two years before them, but in the end the person who graduated earlier will have more experience because they have been working for the last two years. The same can be said with CP, someone can have 700 cp - having 2 years experience playing the game, vs someone who just started and is at 400 cp with 1 year experience. Your argument "doesnt mean i have experience in anything that matters" has nothing to do with my claim that people with less cp have less experience then those with more. Furthermore you tried to make a counterclaim that some cap cps have no idea what they are doing, but i never said they did, i simply said they have more experience counterclaim nulled.
Mhm ok0 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭f047ys3v3n wrote: »This is frankly a good change in PVP. The combination of curse, mages wrath, and frags, all timed properly has long been what amounts to a very OP synergistic combo which allows 2 of the 3 major damage skills to be cast before the victim can sees anything alarming to react to and the last to deliver both the major burst damage and the stun that prevents reaction. It was a crazy powerful combo that basically required an add on to detect when fighting in a group where you don't see the animations of who is targeting you. This will take a little of the edge off. Sorc still has a powerful CC in streak that has other utility.
I'll actually give Wrobel a rare attaboy for this change. That combo was just so crazy OP. Somebody was really thinking when they designed that combo. They were thinking just a little too well.
so you see this like a nerf , DAMN, wrobel tried to make the other morph useful ... if this wasn't the case he would have written " we will remove the CC of the crystal frag cause the sorc combo is a bit to much powerful " but he wrote " we will remove the CC of crystal frag and put it on the other morph to make the choice interesting ". you see , typical exemple that those who don't play sorcerer also see the " frag CC ' dead simply because he will be on the other morph , why ? cause this doesn't matter what class you play ... crystal blast will stay a useless skill from all points of view ...Edited by Apherius on October 2, 2017 5:10PM0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Valera Progib wrote: »
Streak is broken and can snare you. Rune prison - no sorc runs it in solo play, pet stun is only with pet active.Valera Progib wrote: »Wow, that must be a most stupid nerf in the history of ESO... now magsorc has no stun...
I was playing with defensive rune on resto bar for 2 years and now probably it is the only was to stun anyone.
Magsorc in PvP always tries to cast proced frags when enemy is in close range, now this change will completely destroy current magsorc playstyle.
Glad I cancelled my subscription...
I hope you are being sarcastic. Rune prison, streak, pet stun?
No, I am not being sarcrastic, but you are clueless.
Players will just have to slot rune prison now. A ranged cc that ignores block and dodge is really strong. Flame clench is also a really good ranged cc and decent dot. You will just have to give up an ability slot to run it, but it's definitely worth running either one of those cc's. It's not like other classes aren't already having to make these descions either. With a ranged cc and streak you will be able to kite for days
Depends entirely on the design of the ability and the cost.
Can you cast it on CC immune targets and it will cost magica and nothing happens?
That is most likely what will happen. Is same way with DK.
And if rune prison has a high enough cost that might be enough to put people off slotting it.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Where is it written that it's a core tenet of ESO that channeled/cast time abilities also have CCs attached to them to offset the cast time? I'm looking at Dark Flare but I don't see a CC.
Darkflare is probably the worst example you could have chosen. It has the strongest secondary effect an ability can have in eso. A healdebuff.
This healdebuff is also applied regardless if the projectile is blocked, dodged or evaded/missed via cloak.
It´s the best secondary effect attached to any offensive casttime skill existant in eso - regardless of that it´s barely ever used in pvp. What can we really take from that?
As for the comparison to dizzingswing/WB - not that it makes any sense to compare it to an uninterruptable ability.
If fragment gives you empower every time it´s procced/hardcasted we can talk.Edited by Derra on October 2, 2017 10:34AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501