Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Lieblingsjunge wrote: »In your first picture, @Apherius - players can also get up there easily. It's quite entertaining, actually.
On a more relevant note. This change is expected and in-line with previous nerfs to other skills. They want to make both morphs viable in different ways. Want utility? Go Crystal Blast. Want damage? Go Frags. It was an expected change and it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, really. It got the same treatment as shards(templar-shards) did.
Choose utility or choose damage. Choice is yours. Time to embrace the templar-pain and run Invigorating drain as your main CC :^
can you stop justify nerf by quoting other class nerf ? we can't compare class, while the difference between sorc heal and templar heal is ... i don't have any word for this cause it's to big ... the difference between sorc dd and templar dd is not that big.
If i remember correctly they increased the duration of the shard after they removed the CC ? I'm right ? ( i'm not templar so maybe i'm wrong ) while they didn't even buff Crystal frag cause apparently the " CC " is still there even if he is lock behind a morph that nobody will ever use.
between , do you think a 1 sec cast is what we can call " utility " xDD , the cast time + enemie players using Miat's make this morph even more garbage cause you can just rolldoge it .
from a sorc perspective i see this like a choice between a instant skill less easy to avoid with rolldodge ( even if this still easy with miat -_-) and a ... potatoe , this don't even deserve to be called " morph " it's an abomination. if any of you decide to use this morph ... have fun with the potatoe spam build.
I'm just saying it's happened before - and there is absolutely no reason why frags shouldn't get the same treatment. If I'm not mistaken, they're considering increasing the damage of a frag by a bit - to compensate for the lack of stun.
Well - there's other abilities with cast time that still gets used. You just have to have some awareness.
So you're referring to PvP, that's cool, that I know: So you're saying a skill should have insane damage + stun? When sorcs(good ones, mind you) usually streak you before they launch their combo to get unblocked frags in? Sure it's nice to 7k-frag and stun, that poor stamina sorcerer streaking away to escape. :^
You can also dodge Dark Flare, Clench, Javelin, Stone fist... etcetcetc. It doesnt change a thing.
Nah, the only thing you missed was the sign on the door that said Welcome to the Twilight Zone.Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Lieblingsjunge wrote: »In your first picture, @Apherius - players can also get up there easily. It's quite entertaining, actually.
On a more relevant note. This change is expected and in-line with previous nerfs to other skills. They want to make both morphs viable in different ways. Want utility? Go Crystal Blast. Want damage? Go Frags. It was an expected change and it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, really. It got the same treatment as shards(templar-shards) did.
Choose utility or choose damage. Choice is yours. Time to embrace the templar-pain and run Invigorating drain as your main CC :^
can you stop justify nerf by quoting other class nerf ? we can't compare class, while the difference between sorc heal and templar heal is ... i don't have any word for this cause it's to big ... the difference between sorc dd and templar dd is not that big.
If i remember correctly they increased the duration of the shard after they removed the CC ? I'm right ? ( i'm not templar so maybe i'm wrong ) while they didn't even buff Crystal frag cause apparently the " CC " is still there even if he is lock behind a morph that nobody will ever use.
between , do you think a 1 sec cast is what we can call " utility " xDD , the cast time + enemie players using Miat's make this morph even more garbage cause you can just rolldoge it .
from a sorc perspective i see this like a choice between a instant skill less easy to avoid with rolldodge ( even if this still easy with miat -_-) and a ... potatoe , this don't even deserve to be called " morph " it's an abomination. if any of you decide to use this morph ... have fun with the potatoe spam build.
I'm just saying it's happened before - and there is absolutely no reason why frags shouldn't get the same treatment. If I'm not mistaken, they're considering increasing the damage of a frag by a bit - to compensate for the lack of stun.
Well - there's other abilities with cast time that still gets used. You just have to have some awareness.
So you're referring to PvP, that's cool, that I know: So you're saying a skill should have insane damage + stun? When sorcs(good ones, mind you) usually streak you before they launch their combo to get unblocked frags in? Sure it's nice to 7k-frag and stun, that poor stamina sorcerer streaking away to escape. :^
You can also dodge Dark Flare, Clench, Javelin, Stone fist... etcetcetc. It doesnt change a thing.
Did I miss something? Where did they say the damage of a frag was going to be increased?
Frags loosing the CC is a good change imho.. it was very powerful.. and sorc still has streak/BoL to stun... though I agree with most that Crystal Blast still won't be used.. maybe it should be a Crystal Frags copy that still gives CC but looses the cheaper cost and extra damage on proc. Then it would be a choice between CC or higher burst.
Streak and BoL have high cost(3k mag) and a cost increase(5k after first use) so you really have to be careful to use them as cc and they do not fit so well into range combat of sorcs. (Don't get me wrong they work well as cc but more as an backup option if you can't cc your opponent normally e.g dodge roll spammers) Taking off the cc of cfrags and sorcs will lose alot of pressure in pvp since enemies now can instant heal after getting hit instead of needing to cc break first(less counter play from enemies needed as long as it doesn't one shot they can instantly heal up no blocking and dodging needed). Sorcs need to give up another skill to slot a real cc and the burst combo will now be harder to get off in open field pvp(you have to get another skill in before you use your combo).
The thing about Frags was that if you were able to land it on a non-dodging non-blocking opponent just before Curse went off, and that got them low enough for Endless Fury to proc, they would be unable to block those because of the CC from Frags. If you did the same combo with what is proposed, they could just block or dodge all/any of it.
So it forces the use of Rune Prison / Streak / Dawnbreaker preemptively. I tested breaking free with a buddy and Frags usually will land before the player can block, but it's very close, so your timing has to be spot on.
Frags loosing the CC is a good change imho.. it was very powerful.. and sorc still has streak/BoL to stun... though I agree with most that Crystal Blast still won't be used.. maybe it should be a Crystal Frags copy that still gives CC but looses the cheaper cost and extra damage on proc. Then it would be a choice between CC or higher burst.
Streak and BoL have high cost(3k mag) and a cost increase(5k after first use) so you really have to be careful to use them as cc and they do not fit so well into range combat of sorcs. (Don't get me wrong they work well as cc but more as an backup option if you can't cc your opponent normally e.g dodge roll spammers) Taking off the cc of cfrags and sorcs will lose alot of pressure in pvp since enemies now can instant heal after getting hit instead of needing to cc break first(less counter play from enemies needed as long as it doesn't one shot they can instantly heal up no blocking and dodging needed). Sorcs need to give up another skill to slot a real cc and the burst combo will now be harder to get off in open field pvp(you have to get another skill in before you use your combo).
Using streak means a sorc still has a 21 range CC that he likely already has on his quickbar, so nothing to give up.. and if 21 range can't cut it, make room for rune prison which is an instant 41 range stun.
BTW: streak high cost? You don't spam it if you use it for stunning.. and it's actually cheaper (3780) than something like Templar's Javelin (4050), DK's stonefist (4050), NB's Teleport Strike (4050), ... see the pattern? Because of the cost increase added when spamming the spell, it actually was made cheaper on first use... there's no reason to "spam" a stun anyway.
But.. would have preferred they made Crystal Blast into the lower damage CC version of it. Only new people use Crystal Blast, to level up the skill or to find out it's garbage. Don't think that will change with this patch.
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus
Using streak means a sorc still has a 21 range CC that he likely already has on his quickbar, so nothing to give up.. and if 21 range can't cut it, make room for rune prison which is an instant 41 range stun.
Btw, all those people saying frags is amazing: try land one that isn't dodged or blocked these days. Happens only on targets that are running away, are cc'ed, out of stam or engaged.
FlamingBeard wrote: »Lieblingsjunge wrote: »In your first picture, @Apherius - players can also get up there easily. It's quite entertaining, actually.
On a more relevant note. This change is expected and in-line with previous nerfs to other skills. They want to make both morphs viable in different ways. Want utility? Go Crystal Blast. Want damage? Go Frags. It was an expected change and it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, really. It got the same treatment as shards(templar-shards) did.
Choose utility or choose damage. Choice is yours. Time to embrace the templar-pain and run Invigorating drain as your main CC :^
can you stop justify nerf by quoting other class nerf ? we can't compare class, while the difference between sorc heal and templar heal is ... i don't have any word for this cause it's to big ... the difference between sorc dd and templar dd is not that big.
If i remember correctly they increased the duration of the shard after they removed the CC ? I'm right ? ( i'm not templar so maybe i'm wrong ) while they didn't even buff Crystal frag cause apparently the " CC " is still there even if he is lock behind a morph that nobody will ever use.
between , do you think a 1 sec cast is what we can call " utility " xDD , the cast time + enemie players using Miat's make this morph even more garbage cause you can just rolldoge it .
from a sorc perspective i see this like a choice between a instant skill less easy to avoid with rolldodge ( even if this still easy with miat -_-) and a ... potatoe , this don't even deserve to be called " morph " it's an abomination. if any of you decide to use this morph ... have fun with the potatoe spam build.
I'm sorry lol
Did you just compare TEMPLAR damage to Sorcerer?
Magicka Templar has not only some of the worst damage of all magicka classes in PvE, but its PvP damage is heavily hindered by the fact that most classes (including Sorcerers) can dance around Templars without ever getting hit by a single Puncturing Sweep, and Ball of Lightning often completely prevents BOTH Templar stuns (Aurora Javelin and Toppling Charge) from ever reaching a Sorcerer, let alone creating enough of a window to burst their shield stacks down and maintain enough pressue to execute before another Ball of Lightning stuns that Templar.
Btw, all those people saying frags is amazing: try land one that isn't dodged or blocked these days. Happens only on targets that are running away, are cc'ed, out of stam or engaged.
It still amuses me how is ZoS trying to balance these abilities when environment on Miat (PC) and nonMiat (console, internal ZoS test server) is so different.
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus
Lieblingsjunge wrote: »In your first picture, @Apherius - players can also get up there easily. It's quite entertaining, actually.
On a more relevant note. This change is expected and in-line with previous nerfs to other skills. They want to make both morphs viable in different ways. Want utility? Go Crystal Blast. Want damage? Go Frags. It was an expected change and it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, really. It got the same treatment as shards(templar-shards) did.
Choose utility or choose damage. Choice is yours. Time to embrace the templar-pain and run Invigorating drain as your main CC :^
It´s actually funny.
All it would have taken for cblast to be considered worth using would have been the same procchance frags had.
Increase proc chance of instant frag if you go through with this terrible idea then.
^
Templar continuous damage in PvP outdoes sorc. Sorc just has the burst advantage. You don't easily dance around Sweeps with snares involved, and dodge builds certainly hate Templars.
At the moment, all types of builds, tank/heal/dd, actually have similar damage output. The difference is in how the damage gets delivered, and how often. A permablocking DK might not hit you often, but when that 12k Leap comes, it hurts. Just an example.
That is why Frags canNOT be compared to shards. When sorcs "lose" their burst, they lose their role. A Templar without any damage potential will still have amazing group support. Sorcs just aren't very versatile in their combat roles. You go damage, preferrably burst, or you go home.
Was that a joke? Streak is 15m range with a 1.5 sec stun. Using streak as primary CC means needing to swap to back bar to streak, then instantly swap to front bar while doing a 180 with the camera to retarget. Wep swap takes 1 GCD so now you are left with 0.5 sec to follow up. It's functional in ideal conditions, by it is not in any way comparable to 41m range 2.5 sec stun from frags that requires no bar swap/camera play dancing to use.Frags loosing the CC is a good change imho.. it was very powerful.. and sorc still has streak/BoL to stun... though I agree with most that Crystal Blast still won't be used.. maybe it should be a Crystal Frags copy that still gives CC but looses the cheaper cost and extra damage on proc. Then it would be a choice between CC or higher burst.
Streak and BoL have high cost(3k mag) and a cost increase(5k after first use) so you really have to be careful to use them as cc and they do not fit so well into range combat of sorcs. (Don't get me wrong they work well as cc but more as an backup option if you can't cc your opponent normally e.g dodge roll spammers) Taking off the cc of cfrags and sorcs will lose alot of pressure in pvp since enemies now can instant heal after getting hit instead of needing to cc break first(less counter play from enemies needed as long as it doesn't one shot they can instantly heal up no blocking and dodging needed). Sorcs need to give up another skill to slot a real cc and the burst combo will now be harder to get off in open field pvp(you have to get another skill in before you use your combo).
Using streak means a sorc still has a 21 range CC that he likely already has on his quickbar, so nothing to give up.. and if 21 range can't cut it, make room for rune prison which is an instant 41 range stun.
BTW: streak high cost? You don't spam it if you use it for stunning.. and it's actually cheaper (3780) than something like Templar's Javelin (4050), DK's stonefist (4050), NB's Teleport Strike (4050), ... see the pattern? Because of the cost increase added when spamming the spell, it actually was made cheaper on first use... there's no reason to "spam" a stun anyway.
But.. would have preferred they made Crystal Blast into the lower damage CC version of it. Only new people use Crystal Blast, to level up the skill or to find out it's garbage. Don't think that will change with this patch.
Losing the stun hurts. But I still am puzzled what to drop for Rune Cage - I think after all I'll run with no ranged CC at all and will only use Streak as CC. I could drop Inner Light, losing 5% mag and crit. But still, the change was totally unnecessary. And what's that about a cost increase for Rune Cage then?
It's a typical Wrobel. He just has no clue how to do things right.