PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Zer0oo

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Unlike others in the thread (didn't read the full thread so sorry if I'm rehashing something), but the frags "nerf" is irrelevant. Rune prison will be an unavoidable cc that goes through block, and can easily be used to ensure a frag or a meteor lands. It will mean the entire sorc burst of curse+frag/meteor+fury will be undodgeable, unblockable, and unavoidable with no counterplay. I'm a longtime mDK so I know how powerful a well timed fossilize is for landing guaranteed hits on a target.

You could already do that with the live version of rune prison, but way more fun if you use soul assault. (not sure if undodgeable but i thought so)

ak_pvp

So are they just shitting on MDKs again, all whilst giving sorc the better prison too? I really hope the sorc rune prison changes. They already out utility DKs by a country mile PvP.

hmmm...

Lord-Otto

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Unlike others in the thread (didn't read the full thread so sorry if I'm rehashing something), but the frags "nerf" is irrelevant. Rune prison will be an unavoidable cc that goes through block, and can easily be used to ensure a frag or a meteor lands. It will mean the entire sorc burst of curse+frag/meteor+fury will be undodgeable, unblockable, and unavoidable with no counterplay. I'm a longtime mDK so I know how powerful a well timed fossilize is for landing guaranteed hits on a target.

Naaah, man, undodgable, unblockable Curse is what explodes the sun according to this forum. That the mentioned combo was possible with unblockable Streak, and was gone in favor of the Curse buff, is toootally negligible.
(^_-)

Three quarters of this forum are just clueless haters who know nothing about classes and the game.

But having to slot and cast Rune Cage is actually an increased cost and reduced burst potential, but it grants sorcs a true burst combo that does not only work on the forum potatoes here. I like the change, honestly.

ToRelax

Lord-Otto wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Unlike others in the thread (didn't read the full thread so sorry if I'm rehashing something), but the frags "nerf" is irrelevant. Rune prison will be an unavoidable cc that goes through block, and can easily be used to ensure a frag or a meteor lands. It will mean the entire sorc burst of curse+frag/meteor+fury will be undodgeable, unblockable, and unavoidable with no counterplay. I'm a longtime mDK so I know how powerful a well timed fossilize is for landing guaranteed hits on a target.

Naaah, man, undodgable, unblockable Curse is what explodes the sun according to this forum. That the mentioned combo was possible with unblockable Streak, and was gone in favor of the Curse buff, is toootally negligible.
(^_-)

Three quarters of this forum are just clueless haters who know nothing about classes and the game.

But having to slot and cast Rune Cage is actually an increased cost and reduced burst potential, but it grants sorcs a true burst combo that does not only work on the forum potatoes here. I like the change, honestly.

Whether or not the new Rune Cage is a good change, taking away the stun from Fragments just pigeonholes the (magicka) Sorcs even more into a specific set of abilities for no real gain.

dpencil1

So is the nerf still coming or what? I expected it in today's patch notes.

Apherius

The choice is interesting between crystal blast and soul trap cause both are potatoe skill ...

Oh my bad even soul trap is more useful than crystal blast.

Mystrius_Archaion

I like the Crystal Blast splash buff.
I already use it as a good spammable AoE, and it needs to be good for the cast time. I'm not a fan of any proc chances so I don't like Crystal Fragments. Why would I want to NOT use a skill until I get lucky when I can have a much more useful always good skill?

ToRelax

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

I like the Crystal Blast splash buff.
I already use it as a good spammable AoE, and it needs to be good for the cast time. I'm not a fan of any proc chances so I don't like Crystal Fragments. Why would I want to NOT use a skill until I get lucky when I can have a much more useful always good skill?

Good question. Of course, Crystal Blast isn't any good against a player who knows what they're doing. It might work make enemies focus you when you're zergsurfing though, if that's your goal.
And in PvE, well, as has been said it's nowhere near cost efficient enough and slow in addition, plus you won't hit as many enemies with Splash as with a targeted AoE like Elemental Ring...

Mystrius_Archaion

ToRelax wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

I like the Crystal Blast splash buff.
I already use it as a good spammable AoE, and it needs to be good for the cast time. I'm not a fan of any proc chances so I don't like Crystal Fragments. Why would I want to NOT use a skill until I get lucky when I can have a much more useful always good skill?

Good question. Of course, Crystal Blast isn't any good against a player who knows what they're doing. It might work make enemies focus you when you're zergsurfing though, if that's your goal.
And in PvE, well, as has been said it's nowhere near cost efficient enough and slow in addition, plus you won't hit as many enemies with Splash as with a targeted AoE like Elemental Ring...

It's more efficient in pve. I don't have to use other magicka skills to trigger it, especially if I'm forced to use those others before they have reached their full duration and take a dps loss. What other spammable, that isn't force shock, do sorcerers have to trigger this? Am I forced to only use a destruction staff? And no, that instant lightning execute is not efficient to use anytime outside of execute range.

I actually use restoration staff for the resource regain so I can use more skills, and because of Ward Ally and healing without pets. I don't like to be forced into a destruction staff skill for a proc of a class skill.

By the way, I tend to be right in melee range, or trailing a bunched up pack of enemies while kiting, which actually helps Crystal Blast hit most of them. It's better than a lot of people give it credit for.

wizzard

Basically u killed the sorcerer ofc nerf the Rune prison and what the hell is crystall blast no one plays with this ability..

Buff the instant frag back to what it was b 4 but separate pvp and pve so if u buff it in pve it should not affect pvp.. that's your main problem in classbalance, focus this ppl getting tired of brining always a new skill set up to pve cuz of Changes in pvp so it should b separated than it's...

..fair in pvp and has no change to pve

And u will see how many players u will get back

FlamingBeard

Lord-Otto wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Unlike others in the thread (didn't read the full thread so sorry if I'm rehashing something), but the frags "nerf" is irrelevant. Rune prison will be an unavoidable cc that goes through block, and can easily be used to ensure a frag or a meteor lands. It will mean the entire sorc burst of curse+frag/meteor+fury will be undodgeable, unblockable, and unavoidable with no counterplay. I'm a longtime mDK so I know how powerful a well timed fossilize is for landing guaranteed hits on a target.

Naaah, man, undodgable, unblockable Curse is what explodes the sun according to this forum. That the mentioned combo was possible with unblockable Streak, and was gone in favor of the Curse buff, is toootally negligible.
(^_-)

Three quarters of this forum are just clueless haters who know nothing about classes and the game.

But having to slot and cast Rune Cage is actually an increased cost and reduced burst potential, but it grants sorcs a true burst combo that does not only work on the forum potatoes here. I like the change, honestly.

You claim that OTHERS know nothing about this game's classes and you say that Streak is unblockable. LOL

I implore you to have someone hold block then Streak through them. Watch as they are not stunned.

Rune Prison getting a buff is entirely unnecessary and should still break upon the target taking direct damage.

This creates situations where you just cannot counter a Sorcerer's burst damage and will always have to take at least a Crystal Fragment proc right to the unblocked health bar. That is not balanced, that is Sorcerer favoritism and anyone whining about how it's being nerfed AT ALL is a baby who needs to play other classes for once and see how difficult it is for a magicka Templar for instance to carry out any sort of full burst rotation on anyone with half a brain and an immobilizing root.

ak_pvp

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Unlike others in the thread (didn't read the full thread so sorry if I'm rehashing something), but the frags "nerf" is irrelevant. Rune prison will be an unavoidable cc that goes through block, and can easily be used to ensure a frag or a meteor lands. It will mean the entire sorc burst of curse+frag/meteor+fury will be undodgeable, unblockable, and unavoidable with no counterplay. I'm a longtime mDK so I know how powerful a well timed fossilize is for landing guaranteed hits on a target.

Naaah, man, undodgable, unblockable Curse is what explodes the sun according to this forum. That the mentioned combo was possible with unblockable Streak, and was gone in favor of the Curse buff, is toootally negligible.
(^_-)

Three quarters of this forum are just clueless haters who know nothing about classes and the game.

But having to slot and cast Rune Cage is actually an increased cost and reduced burst potential, but it grants sorcs a true burst combo that does not only work on the forum potatoes here. I like the change, honestly.

You claim that OTHERS know nothing about this game's classes and you say that Streak is unblockable. LOL

I implore you to have someone hold block then Streak through them. Watch as they are not stunned.

Rune Prison getting a buff is entirely unnecessary and should still break upon the target taking direct damage.

This creates situations where you just cannot counter a Sorcerer's burst damage and will always have to take at least a Crystal Fragment proc right to the unblocked health bar. That is not balanced, that is Sorcerer favoritism and anyone whining about how it's being nerfed AT ALL is a baby who needs to play other classes for once and see how difficult it is for a magicka Templar for instance to carry out any sort of full burst rotation on anyone with half a brain and an immobilizing root.

"That the mentioned combo was possible with unblockable Streak, and was gone in favor of the Curse buff, is toootally negligible."

They mean that streak used to be unblockable. but was changed when curse was buffed.

preedb16_ESO2

I find Mages Fury to be rather weak compared to templar and especially nightblade execute skills. It's not worth dropping your rotation to spam because on its own its dps is rather low.. Once or maybe twice every rotation perhaps, as long as you dont allow your over times and other damage to stop..

preedb16_ESO2

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

You want a stamina class spammable when even mag Sorc doesn't have one?

You have a magicka class execute when even stam sorc doesn't have one? Oh wait, it's in the weapon lines... just like a mag spam.

E: don't get that wrong. But what's that with the "when even mag sorcs don't have one"? Sounds like mag is entitled to a better toolkit than it's stam counterpart. StamSorcs have 1 stamina class skill that does damage. No curse, no wrath, no frag, no pets. With not throw them a bone? Especially when you consider how many class passives they actually make good use of.

You do realize that right now, stamsorcs outperform magsorcs on live server by quite a bit..

Why aren't there two threads for each class discussion? One for PVE and one for PVP?

(I am only considering PVE here, since I don't play PVP)
(And I am VERY sick of having my PVE experience nerfed because of balance issues in PVP)

preedb16_ESO2

As for crystal fragments.. Don't like it and I don't use it.. The randomness of it puts "hiccups" in my rotation and just mess up my concentration.. Plus there seems to be some animation lag/wierdness going on when I use it, as if it isn't as "instant" as it says it is.. Not to mention that the "pling" from it being activated usually comes after I have swapped bars so I would need to swap back to cast it.. No thanks.. Crappy mechanics behind the skill and I wouldn't mind having it completely changed to something more useful...

Lord_Invel

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

We’d like to touch on a couple things we’re looking to iterate on for this class. First, some of you have mentioned that the Summon Charged Atronach AoE can occasionally miss targets that are right next to it. To address this, we plan to change the AoE pattern to a single circle instead of 5 small circles. We’ve also seen reports of an issue with Overload where the bound armor can persist even when it’s not on your bar; we’re investigating this issue.

Lastly, we’ve seen some of you mention that the new Rune Prison is quite powerful in PVP - we’re looking at adjusting the cost to help counter this. In addition, we’ve been evaluating the Crystal Shard skill line and its morphs and are planning to make some adjustments. The base stun component is going to be removed from the ability and instead placed on the Crystal Blast morph. This will make the choice between Crystal Fragments and Crystal Blast much more interesting as you are choosing between a CC and AoE damage vs. increased burst damage.

Thanks for taking the time to hop on the PTS and test out the changes so far!

These class balance changes are simply put.... terrible. Just keep sorc and all the other classes the way are now classes don't need changes game mechanics like ult gen need change and counterplay real counterplay. That is what needs to be changed. Bring back a skillful dynamic ult system that is balanced , make mobility a priority in the game. Snares are attached to way to many skills in this game and people don't like not being able to move and play this is ridiculous. So many abilities go through dodge roll and are spammed to oblivion in order to just zerg down and mow people over. Blocking is way to easy to do in this game get rid of block cost reduction bonuses from armor traits or make perma blocking actually punishable by implementing a system that punishes perma blockers. Bring back actual counterplay to this god forsaken game please! People don't like just being a random number running around aimlessly in the middle of a damn zerg that makes the game laggy as *** and drops peoples' fps down to hellish numbers. The only thing that hinders this games progress and profits is the fact that no one at ZOS has ever taken any advice from its pro pvpers and pvers seriously. The best streamers of eso were thrown to the wayside and ignored all of their feedback is thrown in the trash that is the main reason this game has fallen downhill and will never get better and never become enjoyable. Zenimax its up to you if you want to save your game at all.

@ZOS_Wrobel

josh.lackey_ESO

Put a cooldown on shield breaker set. It's absurd.

steussy

The whole point of reworking unpopular morphs I thought was to make them a more viable option but it will not work in this case. Simply crystal blast would still be weak because of cast time and cost.

gammelscroll

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

We have removed a few comments that were baiting and disruptive. We ask that you please keep your posts civil and constructive.

sorcs already over perform in PvP. If they need something they need a nerf
Like many other mention in here, mages fury needs a rework or something. So tired of 1 button spam sorcs. Mages fury duration should be set to 2 seckonds so good players get rewarded for using it. Not braindead skill to spam on all low hp targets you see. And mages fury is pretty destroying BG`s etc

gammelscroll

.

Maulkin

gammelscroll wrote: »

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

We have removed a few comments that were baiting and disruptive. We ask that you please keep your posts civil and constructive.

sorcs already over perform in PvP. If they need something they need a nerf
Like many other mention in here, mages fury needs a rework or something. So tired of 1 button spam sorcs. Mages fury duration should be set to 2 seckonds so good players get rewarded for using it. Not braindead skill to spam on all low hp targets you see. And mages fury is pretty destroying BG`s etc

That's not mage's fury... you know that right?

ak_pvp

gammelscroll wrote: »

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

We have removed a few comments that were baiting and disruptive. We ask that you please keep your posts civil and constructive.

sorcs already over perform in PvP. If they need something they need a nerf
Like many other mention in here, mages fury needs a rework or something. So tired of 1 button spam sorcs. Mages fury duration should be set to 2 seckonds so good players get rewarded for using it. Not braindead skill to spam on all low hp targets you see. And mages fury is pretty destroying BG`s etc

If ur that bad pls leave. I cannot fathom that you aren't a troll by your posts. Either that or a sorc poster trying to make balance sorc requests seem silly.

Feanor

That's your average "Sorc OP Nerf plz" poster though. I don't think many have more knowledge than that a Sorc killed them.

LegendaryMage

gammelscroll wrote: »

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

We have removed a few comments that were baiting and disruptive. We ask that you please keep your posts civil and constructive.

sorcs already over perform in PvP. If they need something they need a nerf
Like many other mention in here, mages fury needs a rework or something. So tired of 1 button spam sorcs. Mages fury duration should be set to 2 seckonds so good players get rewarded for using it. Not braindead skill to spam on all low hp targets you see. And mages fury is pretty destroying BG`s etc

Ouch. You were lucky you didn't catch a fury proc there too. Not that it would matter though.

Lord_Invel

gammelscroll wrote: »

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

We have removed a few comments that were baiting and disruptive. We ask that you please keep your posts civil and constructive.

sorcs already over perform in PvP. If they need something they need a nerf
Like many other mention in here, mages fury needs a rework or something. So tired of 1 button spam sorcs. Mages fury duration should be set to 2 seckonds so good players get rewarded for using it. Not braindead skill to spam on all low hp targets you see. And mages fury is pretty destroying BG`s etc

Dude I'm sorry but no good player gets hit with a 19k overload crit that is ridiculous. Sorry its just the fact that you aren't learned enough in the game yet and still need experience. I'm in light armor and I still don't get crit with 19k overloads the most I've seen are like 9k or 10k because I'm in all divines and I can accept that damage because it is the way I build. I build for bigger shield and weaker health poo, it's kind of a risk reward playstyle. And u didn't take into account that the sorc attacking you could have been using the elegant armor set which buffs overloads out the ass. That doesn't mean sorc is op that means the armor set needs to be addressed. Should I complain about magicka nightblades then because assasins will is like the hardest hitting skill in the game? CERTAINLY NOT! The real answer for you my friend is that you need to learn to become better at the game and learn how to actually pvp. But knowing zos they will probably lower the skill ceiling even more just to make you feel comfortable and not work hard for your skillful progress ... which is how the game should be btw it should reward skill not reward feelgood mechanics.

Lord-Otto

@ToRelax
Well, yes, it is not needed to rip the CC off of Frags. But to me, personally, if I have to pay the new Rune Cage with Frag CC, I gladly do it.

@FlamingBeard
As already explained, just to verify... Streak used to be an unblockable, undodgable CC and was crucial to guaranteed sorc burst. It got nerfed to being blockable when Curse became unblockable. That was a HUUUGE nerf to sorcs, but certain non-sorc complainers here don't get it / ignore it. That upsets me big time.

gammelscroll

Lord_Invel wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

We have removed a few comments that were baiting and disruptive. We ask that you please keep your posts civil and constructive.

sorcs already over perform in PvP. If they need something they need a nerf
Like many other mention in here, mages fury needs a rework or something. So tired of 1 button spam sorcs. Mages fury duration should be set to 2 seckonds so good players get rewarded for using it. Not braindead skill to spam on all low hp targets you see. And mages fury is pretty destroying BG`s etc

Dude I'm sorry but no good player gets hit with a 19k overload crit that is ridiculous. Sorry its just the fact that you aren't learned enough in the game yet and still need experience. I'm in light armor and I still don't get crit with 19k overloads the most I've seen are like 9k or 10k because I'm in all divines and I can accept that damage because it is the way I build. I build for bigger shield and weaker health poo, it's kind of a risk reward playstyle. And u didn't take into account that the sorc attacking you could have been using the elegant armor set which buffs overloads out the ass. That doesn't mean sorc is op that means the armor set needs to be addressed. Should I complain about magicka nightblades then because assasins will is like the hardest hitting skill in the game? CERTAINLY NOT! The real answer for you my friend is that you need to learn to become better at the game and learn how to actually pvp. But knowing zos they will probably lower the skill ceiling even more just to make you feel comfortable and not work hard for your skillful progress ... which is how the game should be btw it should reward skill not reward feelgood mechanics.

has nothing with skills to to do. ive been top rated player in wow and many other games..that dosnt mather.

i wear full heavy armor with 30k spell resist buffed up and almost 3 k crit resist.

This sorc sniped me from behind when we were running to teleport to top in BG.

And you come here and talk about eso needs skills to play HAHAHA.

would like to see you when you get sniped from behind with overload 1 click attack...takes skills.

sorcs are dominating as PvP class. and they should be balanced. instant frags, stun, mages fury.

players should be rewarded for playing good, not 2 spam skill class

@Lord_Invel tell me what bieng sniped from behind 40 k dmg in 2 sek have to do with a player is good or not?

Lord-Otto

@gammelscroll

Dude, you should grey out the names on screenshots. Naming and shaming is a big deal on these forums.

Overload impact is more or less as powerful as Meteor impact. But activating it takes time. Weaving is impossible. It is highly telegraphed and travels slowly, can be reflected and dodged.

There have been niche Overload gank builds since... Quite some time. Something with Queen's Elegance and Kena and Alchemist. They have never been top tier, thanks to the downsides. As a gank, it's vastly inferior to anything stam can do, especially Nightblades.

You got ganked, that's it. An extremely niche build that sometimes works even on moderately good players. This does not reflect balancing in the slightest, or how many Overload sorcs do you see on top of the leaderboard?

IAVITNI

IAVITNI wrote: »

I agree that magicka sorcs need to be tuned down slightly, but not on the offensive end. Their burst is in a good place on live right now. Anything I can burst down on my sorc I can burst down just as quickly on my stamblade. Against a target dummy, it is a lot easier to set up Msorc burst than on a stamblade. On the other hand, it is a lot easier to predict and therefore counter sorc burst than it is to counter stamblade burst. See how one burst is strong in the aspect that the other is weak in? Ya thats called balanced diversity. (I am only comparing burst here to iterate that sorc burst is not the issue)

Taking the stun away from Frags affects sorc's burst the most, out of all their other strenghts affected by this change.

What sorcs are really too strong in right now is shield stacking. Sorc defence is what should be targeted first, not its offence. We all know shields are getting a nerf hammer so it makes no sense to nerf frags before the necessary nerfs go in.

Is this change game breaking?
No. But it is a nuisance, especially for solo/small scale sorcs.

On a side note. ZoS is killing solo/small scale play. Not everybody enjoys spamming heals while stacked on Crown OK.

If this change does go through, which I hope it doesn't, streaks cost increase should be taken off as many will rely on streak as their cc, forcing Magicka sorcs into mid-range combat. This would mean that mobility and their ability to reposition becomes their new strength over ranged burst.

---Oh and for all those sorc haters happy frag got nerfed simply because its a sorc nerf---

Food for thought:
Would you rather have sorc cc tied to a telegraphed, slow moving dodgeable/blockable projectile or have it tied to an undodgeable/unblockable instantaneous ranged cc that perfectly sets up their burst?

Because thats what this nerf is, the "balance" for Rune Prison becoming sorc primary CC. Pick your poison 7 pc divine medium night blades. Pick your poison.

Just gonna link my post from another thread so I don't have to retype. Ignore the subtle sassiness. The tone in the other thread was different (in a friendly way).

gammelscroll

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@gammelscroll

Dude, you should grey out the names on screenshots. Naming and shaming is a big deal on these forums.

Overload impact is more or less as powerful as Meteor impact. But activating it takes time. Weaving is impossible. It is highly telegraphed and travels slowly, can be reflected and dodged.

There have been niche Overload gank builds since... Quite some time. Something with Queen's Elegance and Kena and Alchemist. They have never been top tier, thanks to the downsides. As a gank, it's vastly inferior to anything stam can do, especially Nightblades.

You got ganked, that's it. An extremely niche build that sometimes works even on moderately good players. This does not reflect balancing in the slightest, or how many Overload sorcs do you see on top of the leaderboard?

this wasnt a gank. was in BG- like battlegrounds if you know what that is