Weps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

https://youtu.be/ERcZznUKCdw

Whiners will whine.

True players will test, and adapt.
In Morrowind Alcast can dish out greater DPS than most people have on live servers currently.
And mag DK is well known to have "the worst sustain out of all classes".

Is this a serious post?
If you read again every single post you'll notice that 9 out of ten are talking about the impact those changes will have on Magicka DKs PvP wise.

Plus, he's probably using Burning Spellweave so this score has already been lowered by a lot with today's patch.

PvP was the whole reason for nerfing. Because people could spec entirely into damage without having to worry about sustain.

Problem is, Magicka DK is probably one of the few examples where you still need some adjustments to sustain yourself in PvP, even on Live.

You don't have no cost reduction passives, no extra recovery passives or skills. All you have to sustain yourselfs are potions and smart placed 200 points Ultis with one of the lowest Ulti regen of the game.

What people is saying is that on top of the huge nerf, nothing relevant was given to help out a little bit a class that doesn't have sustain whatsoever and that now will be forced to go almost full sustain hitting like a mosquito on your arm in order to be able to survive.

Who cares about the skeleton sustain, there were already ways to adapt to the new changes even before they published the first patch notes

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Dubhliam
So you comment on my thread with a video geared to PvE I responded stating we're talking about PvP and you comment on another one of my thread with the same B.S. with yet again another PvE related thing. Amazing.

Regarding your statement with PvP. These changes no matter what class, it is and will be unjustified in regards to sustain changes. You DO NOT change everything in one fell swoop and call it 'balanced' at the end of the day. They changed armor reductions/regeneration, they changed CP, they changed some races, and on top of all that they changed class sustain.
They should have left it to those three and left class sustain alone.

Also when you talked about the laughable change to dark deal to try and reinforce your narrative... lol please stop. The change in comparison to ANY class is a massive disparity (redundant but trying to emphasize the point), you can't even call it a nerf like woah what was it .02 seconds or 1 second difference? I wish I had my video on XBL where it showed me bashing a stam sorc in heavy armor consistently till I ran out of resources while he just sat there spamming it.

Valencer wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Dubhliam
So you comment on my thread with a video geared to PvE I responded stating we're talking about PvP and you comment on another one of my thread with the same B.S. with yet again another PvE related thing. Amazing.

Regarding your statement with PvP. These changes no matter what class, it is and will be unjustified in regards to sustain changes. You DO NOT change everything in one fell swoop and call it 'balanced' at the end of the day. They changed armor reductions/regeneration, they changed CP, they changed some races, and on top of all that they changed class sustain.
They should have left it to those three and left class sustain alone.

Also when you talked about the laughable change to dark deal to try and reinforce your narrative... lol please stop. The change in comparison to ANY class is a massive disparity (redundant but trying to emphasize the point), you can't even call it a nerf like woah what was it .02 seconds or 1 second difference? I wish I had my video on XBL where it showed me bashing a stam sorc in heavy armor consistently till I ran out of resources while he just sat there spamming it.

Remember the no stam regen during block change?

Forum was full of whine threads.

Remember the nerf to shield duration for sorcs?

Forum was full of whine threads.

History will repeat itself, you won't ever know the actual impact of changes until it hits live.

But I have no idea why I am even posting here.
There's no reasoning during PTS.

That's a bit of selective memory though.

Blocking was a death sentence in PvP for multiple updates after IC, until they overbuffed heavy armour with dark brotherhood about 8 months later (constitution returns stamina through block).

Sorcs lost shield duration, but gained physical damage absorbing annulment to shieldstack vs stamina builds. At the end of the day, your shields wont last 6 seconds vs a good player anyway.

DKs just got their mending buff stripped away in PvP unless they stack health. It might as well not be there anymore for most effective PvP builds. The problem is that most stam DKs literally rely on buffing their generic self-heals up for survival. NBs rely on cloak for avoiding hits entirely instead, sorcs have a ton of additional healing sources such as surge and dark deal, templars at least still have minor mending and can cleanse healing debuffs (which are really potent next update).

Outside of cancerous gear the stamina specs feel pretty balanced compared to each other right now (aside from stam sorcs being 10x more useful in group play because negate and superior on-demand sustain) on Live.

Weps wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

https://youtu.be/ERcZznUKCdw

Whiners will whine.

True players will test, and adapt.
In Morrowind Alcast can dish out greater DPS than most people have on live servers currently.
And mag DK is well known to have "the worst sustain out of all classes".

Is this a serious post?
If you read again every single post you'll notice that 9 out of ten are talking about the impact those changes will have on Magicka DKs PvP wise.

Plus, he's probably using Burning Spellweave so this score has already been lowered by a lot with today's patch.

PvP was the whole reason for nerfing. Because people could spec entirely into damage without having to worry about sustain.

Problem is, Magicka DK is probably one of the few examples where you still need some adjustments to sustain yourself in PvP, even on Live.

You don't have no cost reduction passives, no extra recovery passives or skills. All you have to sustain yourselfs are potions and smart placed 200 points Ultis with one of the lowest Ulti regen of the game.

What people is saying is that on top of the huge nerf, nothing relevant was given to help out a little bit a class that doesn't have sustain whatsoever and that now will be forced to go almost full sustain hitting like a mosquito on your arm in order to be able to survive.

Who cares about the skeleton sustain, there were already ways to adapt to the new changes even before they published the first patch notes

The mDK got no passive changes since day 1 of ESO. The only addition to their passives were for that poison stuff for stamina guys. All classes got radical changes since launch of ESO, the mDK got nothing, except battleroar being bombarded. That alone proves just how much Zenimax does not know how to deal with this class. A DOT crit class for PvE which can not work in PvP.

Then why are you quoting me ffs?
I agree with what you're saying

FoulSnowpaw wrote: »

Consider the Following:

• Dragon Knights are more leaned as tanks. DPS should not be their go.
• The ARE "unkillable" DKs out there. Twenty people hitting a DK that never runs out of stamina or magicka; infinite block. Health never goes down until there are at least thirty people.
• A lot of DKs spam igneous shield infinitely, making them deathless.
• Helping hands give DKs extra blocking fuel + ultimate attribute refund = infinite block, health.

I honestly have to agree with the Zen Team's nerfs to DK. Good job team.

Are more leaned as tanks. Tanking is not the only role they're supposed to do otherwise CCs and defensive skills would have been much much stronger.

There are unkillable DKs out there. That's true.
Problem is, with the CP changes and the increase cost in blocking, the problem was already solved. Plus if you're twenty people beating on a DK that is running a PvE build in PvP without dropping its block, stunning or using negate then you should review your strategies because against good groups, as soon as I hold block people start fearing me, luminous sharding me and fossilizing me.

Some DKs spam igneous shields infinitely, but they're mostly Titanium Teddybears who won't hurt a fly.
Just ignore them and move on, if you're stupid enough to try to kill a PvE tank, think that you're not hitting as strong as boss so why should you make any difference? Sure they're deathless and so what? They might be deathless but their kill count is zero.
A 70k HP DK is not even marginally as effective as a 70k Health Templar, not even a 70k Health Sap Tank atm. Not seen them around lately but it won't even be as effective as a 70k Health Sorc tank. PvP-wise at least.
It's just a troll build that has one single efficient counter: don't feed the troll.

DPS Dks can spam it for 3-4 times max in order to get around 5700 stamina back. That's a good amount, but won't make any real difference. But considering DKs don't have cost reduction passives or good stamina regen stats, again, with the CP changes you have even solved the problem with endlessly sustaining charging dizzlying swinging DKs.
What's the point of changing the only tools a class had left to sustain? Not endlessly anymore. Just, sustain.
You know? Being able to do three skills in Cyrodil and survive.

Helping hands passive gives you back 5% stamina out of skills that cost around 4k magicka.
Out of an average 14k mana pool.
If you're a PvE tank in Cyrodil, won't matter, you'll keep spamming EE abilities to keep your block up, you won't die but you won't even scracth nobody. If you're more damage oriented you're gonna spam those skills for 3 times to help you gain the upper hand in case the battle is not going as you predicted but in general Damaging DKs are forced to play the opposite of their class design, they either burst you down or they'll have troubles outlasting you because they don't have regens as high as other classes and the passive you mentioned works only by casting extremely expensive skills.
Sure Ulti restore resources. That's, at least to me, a compensation for one of the slowest ulti regen in the game.
We earn 3 Ulti while casting EE abilities every 6 seconds while we're in combat. That's it. No cost reduction, no potions giving us back 20 ultis, no nothing on top of 3 out of 6 seconds. So, spamming igneous shield won't give a DK more Ulti, I'm sorry to give you bad news about it.

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Dubhliam
I also remember the time when they nerf'd deep breath.
I also remember the time when they got rid of flames of oblivion AoE.
I also remember the time when they nerfed cinder storm.
I also remember the time when they nerfed dragon fire scales and morph.
I also remember the time when they nerfed dragon's blood.
I also remember the time when they nerfed standard of might and morph.
I also remember the time when they nerfed chains.
I also remember the time when they nerfed talons.
I also remember the time when they nerfed fossilize.
I also remember the time when they nerfed dynamic ulti regen.

I see we're getting battle roar nerfed.
I see we're getting igneous shield nerfed.
I see we're getting helping hands nerfed.

So let me ask you which class other than ours have received the most nerfs?

Dubhliam wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Dubhliam
So you comment on my thread with a video geared to PvE I responded stating we're talking about PvP and you comment on another one of my thread with the same B.S. with yet again another PvE related thing. Amazing.

Regarding your statement with PvP. These changes no matter what class, it is and will be unjustified in regards to sustain changes. You DO NOT change everything in one fell swoop and call it 'balanced' at the end of the day. They changed armor reductions/regeneration, they changed CP, they changed some races, and on top of all that they changed class sustain.
They should have left it to those three and left class sustain alone.

Also when you talked about the laughable change to dark deal to try and reinforce your narrative... lol please stop. The change in comparison to ANY class is a massive disparity (redundant but trying to emphasize the point), you can't even call it a nerf like woah what was it .02 seconds or 1 second difference? I wish I had my video on XBL where it showed me bashing a stam sorc in heavy armor consistently till I ran out of resources while he just sat there spamming it.

Remember the no stam regen during block change?

Forum was full of whine threads.

Remember the nerf to shield duration for sorcs?

Forum was full of whine threads.

History will repeat itself, you won't ever know the actual impact of changes until it hits live.

But I have no idea why I am even posting here.
There's no reasoning during PTS.

That's a bit of selective memory though.

Blocking was a death sentence in PvP for multiple updates after IC, until they overbuffed heavy armour with dark brotherhood about 8 months later (constitution returns stamina through block).

Sorcs lost shield duration, but gained physical damage absorbing annulment to shieldstack vs stamina builds. At the end of the day, your shields wont last 6 seconds vs a good player anyway.

DKs just got their mending buff stripped away in PvP unless they stack health. It might as well not be there anymore for most effective PvP builds. The problem is that most stam DKs literally rely on buffing their generic self-heals up for survival. NBs rely on cloak for avoiding hits entirely instead, sorcs have a ton of additional healing sources such as surge and dark deal, templars at least still have minor mending and can cleanse healing debuffs (which are really potent next update).

Outside of cancerous gear the stamina specs feel pretty balanced compared to each other right now (aside from stam sorcs being 10x more useful in group play because negate and superior on-demand sustain) on Live.

Death sentence?
You serious?
At that time HA still had the 20% block cost reduction.

And EVEN THEN, when the block cost reduction got removed, permablocking never stopped being a thing.

Physical defence from Harness Magicka was actually a bad thing since it only returns mag if mitigating mag dmg.

Major Mending nonexistent?
L2P.
Fossilize>Igneous>Vigor

MaxwellC wrote: »

I also remember the time when they nerf'd deep breath.
I also remember the time when they got rid of flames of oblivion AoE.
I also remember the time when they nerfed cinder storm.
I also remember the time when they nerfed dragon fire scales and morph.
I also remember the time when they nerfed dragon's blood.
I also remember the time when they nerfed standard of might and morph.
I also remember the time when they nerfed chains.
I also remember the time when they nerfed talons.
I also remember the time when they nerfed fossilize.
I also remember the time when they nerfed dynamic ulti regen.

I see we're getting battle roar nerfed.
I see we're getting igneous shield nerfed.
I see we're getting helping hands nerfed.

So let me ask you which class other than ours have received the most nerfs?

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Ishammael
My bad mate I forgot how many times they were nerfed and also indirectly nerfed.. it's just too much to remember lol. I even forgot to mention major mending up time being nerfed last patch or the patch before.

Dubhliam wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Dubhliam
So you comment on my thread with a video geared to PvE I responded stating we're talking about PvP and you comment on another one of my thread with the same B.S. with yet again another PvE related thing. Amazing.

Regarding your statement with PvP. These changes no matter what class, it is and will be unjustified in regards to sustain changes. You DO NOT change everything in one fell swoop and call it 'balanced' at the end of the day. They changed armor reductions/regeneration, they changed CP, they changed some races, and on top of all that they changed class sustain.
They should have left it to those three and left class sustain alone.

Also when you talked about the laughable change to dark deal to try and reinforce your narrative... lol please stop. The change in comparison to ANY class is a massive disparity (redundant but trying to emphasize the point), you can't even call it a nerf like woah what was it .02 seconds or 1 second difference? I wish I had my video on XBL where it showed me bashing a stam sorc in heavy armor consistently till I ran out of resources while he just sat there spamming it.

Remember the no stam regen during block change?

Forum was full of whine threads.

Remember the nerf to shield duration for sorcs?

Forum was full of whine threads.

History will repeat itself, you won't ever know the actual impact of changes until it hits live.

But I have no idea why I am even posting here.
There's no reasoning during PTS.

That's a bit of selective memory though.

Blocking was a death sentence in PvP for multiple updates after IC, until they overbuffed heavy armour with dark brotherhood about 8 months later (constitution returns stamina through block).

Sorcs lost shield duration, but gained physical damage absorbing annulment to shieldstack vs stamina builds. At the end of the day, your shields wont last 6 seconds vs a good player anyway.

DKs just got their mending buff stripped away in PvP unless they stack health. It might as well not be there anymore for most effective PvP builds. The problem is that most stam DKs literally rely on buffing their generic self-heals up for survival. NBs rely on cloak for avoiding hits entirely instead, sorcs have a ton of additional healing sources such as surge and dark deal, templars at least still have minor mending and can cleanse healing debuffs (which are really potent next update).

Outside of cancerous gear the stamina specs feel pretty balanced compared to each other right now (aside from stam sorcs being 10x more useful in group play because negate and superior on-demand sustain) on Live.

Death sentence?
You serious?
At that time HA still had the 20% block cost reduction.

And EVEN THEN, when the block cost reduction got removed, permablocking never stopped being a thing.

Physical defence from Harness Magicka was actually a bad thing since it only returns mag if mitigating mag dmg.

Major Mending nonexistent?
L2P.
Fossilize>Igneous>Vigor

Sabbathius wrote: »

LorDrek wrote: »

This change decrease HA by 15% complet destroy all dk builds, ZOS hate hate hate DK. Pls remove this stupid class from geme, all relol to warden.

To be fair, as long as you don't use the Lightning staff, but stick with fire, they are going to speed up the Heavy Attack animation. Meaning the overall DPS will probably remain roughly the same. Less damage on attack, but more frequent attacks (with corresponding increase in procs/poisons/etc.).