DK Changes... Seriously?

MaxwellC

@Dubhliam
Actually First of all I have set foot in it, compared my live game to the PTS game side by side laughed and stated" This is a bloody joke" hence why the thread was made in the first place.
Secondly - I've played non CP and unless you've played PvP longer than I have, then sit down mate. I've played DK and only this class like seriously no other class even on PTS since the release of Craglorn so yeah no thanks I'm tired of seeing things taken from my class without anything in return. Talk about the basics of equivalent exchange gone amok.

Lastly - I'm almost a Gen in PvP on Xbox, I haven't played PvP as consistently lately because ZOS has failed for years to fix the lag they introduced and my class has been gimped to mainly using proc sets and meta gameplay to succeed (I make build videos and I do not use meta or proc sets when I PvP). If we count all my PvP ranks and combine them from my Mag DK on PC (Praetorian from back in the day), Mag DK on Xbox, I believe he's centurion I forget, and my Stam DK a Legate Grade 2... Well I'm psositive I'd be a warlord if not a grand warlord. My PvP experience is even showed on my profile which shows over 66k kills lol.. like come on mate.

I don't get why people like yourself are so quick to bend over and take it, losing more things without gaining anything in return as if it's a good deal. I hope you're a car salesman in real life because man I'd take advantage of you for sure.

MaxwellC

@Armitas
Yeah that's the issue, clearly these changes were geared in a corporate mind set as you've got warden looking OP right out of the gate while stealing everything unique to most classes in the game e.g. major mending from templars and Dks as a(n) prime example. I get it they need money but instead of smacking your player base over the head by destroying classes they've worked with for years just so you can sell more copies isn't a good way to keep that player base. I've already cancelled my sub a while ago as I see it's useless to support this game that cannot seem to make balance a thing nor can they fix lag (although I do love @ZOS_BrianWheeler and @ZOS_RichLambert for actually taking a great step with that non cp week as it was way over due).

PvP is boring as nothing has been introduced over than a new area couple years ago, that has quickly disappeared and lacks any value to the on-going faction war. I've made threads about how to tie IC into cyrodiil but they've all gone flat, there's no new items in PvP that changes the battle strategy nor are there new keeps that do not have the same standard either knock down the wall or gate scenario tied to it. There's plenty of games I can cite where they oh I don't know have a poll placed in their game asking for feedback like COME ON!.

BuggeX

why is anyone thinking Player who played dks or temps for years will buy a copy morrowind to Play warden insteed to quit?

there are 2 Kind of Players, the one have any class and Play anything, and the one that just Play a single char.

KramUzibra

lunalitetempler wrote: »

DK needed this nerf, they could just perma block and spam shield to get back Stam, that's not skilled blocking, spamming warhorn. Hate to break it to you but this meta is skill less and boring!


I love you zennimax! Now LTB! Like everyone else.

You act like all dks perma block! I run a medium 40k stam dps Dk and in medium I needed that Stam to kite and break free rolldodge In order to stay alive...this nerf unfairly ruins my build and many like it because a select few run the heavy armor meta with sword and bored... why nerf the dks class defining abilities to the point of irrelevance... zos claims to have made these changes to encourage a more diverse class building experience but in reality it seems like it might have quite the opposite effect. Most likely players will build towards high dps and regen..

Dragath

KramUzibra wrote: »

lunalitetempler wrote: »

DK needed this nerf, they could just perma block and spam shield to get back Stam, that's not skilled blocking, spamming warhorn. Hate to break it to you but this meta is skill less and boring!


I love you zennimax! Now LTB! Like everyone else.

You act like all dks perma block! I run a medium 40k stam dps Dk and in medium I needed that Stam to kite and break free rolldodge In order to stay alive...this nerf unfairly ruins my build and many like it because a select few run the heavy armor meta with sword and bored... why nerf the dks class defining abilities to the point of irrelevance... zos claims to have made these changes to encourage a more diverse class building experience but in reality it seems like it might have quite the opposite effect. Most likely players will build towards high dps and regen..

luna is clueless, just ignore his statement.
what we need is a statement from ZOS.
at this point, there should be quite some data and ideas how to go about these sustain changes, at least for classes that have been hit too hard.

wimhwimladimf

I dont mind DK getting some dmg reduction improvements, but stupid resource restoration needed big nerfs.

Durham

Bleh so many people come into comment but have no idea

Durham

wimhwimladimf wrote: »

I dont mind DK getting some dmg reduction improvements, but stupid resource restoration needed big nerfs.

Hmm 3 casts of 1850 to 2k stam return is just OP.
Lol
But you can cast more ... ummm nope out of magicka
We have no stamina regen passive...

Durham

The so called Infinate block that I keep hearing on here will end after the patch ..... blocking cost will be twice as much and heavy armor passive was nuked to -42% just those two are big .... no need nerf the DK... From my testing it's brutal biting jabs or rapid strike will drain you fast....

t3hdubzy

Durham wrote: »

The so called Infinate block that I keep hearing on here will end after the patch ..... blocking cost will be twice as much and heavy armor passive was nuked to -42% just those two are big .... no need nerf the DK... From my testing it's brutal biting jabs or rapid strike will drain you fast....

What kind of build are you using, and what kind of enchants on jewlery?

Durham

Who said I was talking about my build ... but most stam DK run between 37500 to 40000 stam... I have played a 48k stam build which is 2400 return ...

t3hdubzy

Durham wrote: »

Who said I was talking about my build ... but most stam DK run between 37500 to 40000 stam... I have played a 48k stam build which is 2400 return ...

Ah u said from your testing, i thought that meant you were on PTS

Durham

t3hdubzy wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Who said I was talking about my build ... but most stam DK run between 37500 to 40000 stam... I have played a 48k stam build which is 2400 return ...

Ah u said from your testing, i thought that meant you were on PTS

I have 4 builds on testing .....

Current build LIVE more balanced approach 39k Stam with 16k magicka but around 4500 to 5k weapon damage a little different from my current build...
Medium High Stam recovery build about 38 stam on this build but 2200 Stam recovery in Heavy Armor
Medium High Stam heavy attack build heavy Armor about 38k here also
Medium High Stam Medium Armor build around High recovery about 2600 recovery

But keep in mind I'm talking PVP... not PVE... so going defensive jewrly is out of the question your worthless out there with that... mainly just a utility debuffer...

Valencer

The sustain nerfs are one thing. I can understand helping hands and battle roar would be relatively too good considering "normal" means of sustain took heavy nerfs too in this update.

The major mending change is the big one though. At the moment, a good stamblade or stam sorc can easily have a proper 1v1 versus a stam DK with a lot of back and forth. This is with stam DKs having major mending and the other 2 classes not having it.

Stam DKs now basically lost major mending in PvP (igneous shield is gone in 1 light attack or DoT tick, basically), losing 25% healing in the process. How is that match-up going to be next update? I suspect Major Defile and some burst will make it tough to recover at all. Stamblade bursting you with incap strike will just be game over unless I spec myself into an useless sword and shield tank. Anyone want to duel to test when the EU chars are finally copied over to PTS?

I dont think templars will have the same issue. They still get permanent minor mending (which is *something* at least) and they can cleanse healing debuffs.

Durham

My suggestion
-If you have to nerf helping hands make the break even 30k..... this will still be a big nerf
-Battle Roar should also be 30k this is a minor nerf.
-ingenious shields left alone it already has a huge cost...

There are 6 other universal nerfs that will affect the stam DK....

No reason to do this the universal changes will destroy blocking in PVP..... You already can not perma dodge...

Ocelot9x

Valencer wrote: »

The sustain nerfs are one thing. I can understand helping hands and battle roar would be relatively too good considering "normal" means of sustain took heavy nerfs too in this update.

The major mending change is the big one though. At the moment, a good stamblade or stam sorc can easily have a proper 1v1 versus a stam DK with a lot of back and forth. This is with stam DKs having major mending and the other 2 classes not having it.

Stam DKs now basically lost major mending in PvP (igneous shield is gone in 1 light attack or DoT tick, basically), losing 25% healing in the process. How is that match-up going to be next update? I suspect Major Defile and some burst will make it tough to recover at all. Stamblade bursting you with incap strike will just be game over unless I spec myself into an useless sword and shield tank. Anyone want to duel to test when the EU chars are finally copied over to PTS?

I dont think templars will have the same issue. They still get permanent minor mending (which is *something* at least) and they can cleanse healing debuffs.

I absolutely agree

Durham

Well the new notes are out ......nothing for the DK... mostly nerfs to The warden.. And a no brainer on the Temp with spears....

MaxwellC

Yup seems like they're adamant in these unjust changes to the DK class, its ok we definitely do not have the highest costing skills in the game (stamina aside) plus we obviously have recovery and reduction built into our passives . Talk about disheartening here, they've finally grabbed the stake to pierce the last one into my Stam DK. Nothing even given in exchange like something to boost our resource recovery or even giving back our AoE... nope.

Dragath

3.0.1 was ready even before the first feedback.
wait for the next two patch cycles. there is still room for changes.
even if the would turn 180° on all changes, they wouldnt have been reverted with this one.

Gomumon

Really just have to ask yourself: are the Pre-Order bonuses for Morrowind worth it? If you're on the fence, and can live without them, just cancel your​ Pre-Order and Plus then come back when/if the game is to your liking. No sense in paying them while you wait and see.

lagrue

I like the Obsidian Shard ability. I pooled all of my Attribute points into Magicka, and so my health is really low, even with the Emperor's Fricasse to boost all my stats by some 5000 or so.

The shard has saved me countless times with healing - and if you're good at switching targets fast, you can CC/knockdown enemies, which makes it easier to get a few hits in. It's also nice that the healing can go to our allies - afaik, that's the only way outside of Resto staff I can heal other people.

Impulse/Obsidian Shard/Coagulating Blood/Lava Whip/Flames of Oblivion (My skillset on my Destro Bar)

I'm obviously not a meta-superDPS-vet-endgame elite nutjob, but I just thought I'd chime in and defend a skill I like, certainly not a worthless skill.

Durham

Yep.
PVE STAM DK tank is fine
PVE STAM DK DPS is fine
PVP Stam DK hurting

I'm sorry I don't see anything coming back ...

MaxwellC

@lagrue
Yeah it must be somewhat fine on a Mag DK but not for a stam. DPS will drop because of the added cost and thats for both reduction CP being sniped (which aids those PvE Stam DPS Dks who use igneous weapons for their buffs and stam return) and costs for certain skills being increased.

PvP wise again this is a huge smack to those who play Stam DK with the cross the wall nerfs to sustain aside from 1 class, we still have the highest costing skills to use so this further impacts our stam return and with the changes to helping hands and battle roar... well this just cripples us. We might as well be in a wheel chair as we've been resorting to Heavy attacking during kills for a while now and now it just got even worse.

MaxwellC

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Correct me if I'm wrong but there was no talk about the reasoning(s) behind the DK changes that is killing our already terrible sustain nor was there any talk about why redguards received a nerf that makes no sense i.e. (Paraphrasing) "having 18k or less stamina this will be a buff but over that threshold it will be a nerf". I do not even see any character who's a redguard getting anywhere below that threshold for it to be a buff as they're more so gunning for recovery and stam balance.

Edit: This question was posed in regards to the ESO live that did not at-least from what I saw answer any questions regarding the disastrous DK changes.

Arbitrator

I wish this was all I had to worry about. At least you have well thought out skills for your class. Try playing a Templar tank, AKA the worst designed class in any game ever.

MaxwellC

Arbitrator wrote: »

I wish this was all I had to worry about. At least you have well thought out skills for your class. Try playing a Templar tank, AKA the worst designed class in any game ever.

@Arbitrator
Not sure what you're getting at mate, we Stam DKs have been consistently nerf'd I mean at-least stamplars got a buff last patch. This PTS patch we're all in the same boat at-least for Templars and DKs as a whole but stamplar vs stam dk we've been six feet under while you're currently being buried.

Durham

Arbitrator wrote: »

I wish this was all I had to worry about. At least you have well thought out skills for your class. Try playing a Templar tank, AKA the worst designed class in any game ever.

Have one ... heavy armor stamplar will destroy a heavy armor stam dk on the test ... your bitting jabs will cost a DK 4 blocks a sec... you have an ability that will purge all my dots while snaring me it also gives you minor mending ... you have another ability that will go through my block ... STAMPLARS were much better after the last patch ... they should not have lost major mending just like the DK....Im not they are OK by any means I just saying the DKs are that weak on the PTS.

Cronopoly

Tried holding block for ten seconds on my DK Tank on 4 trash mobs in PTS Orsinium...Watched my Stam plummet like what the hell... All the nerfs together have a massive effect...

This model of using us as unpaid consultants to test their wild guesses for balance is ridiculous. Voting with wallet at the very least...

Vesper_BR

Why don't igneous shield and fragmented shield scale based on your biggest resource pool? That would help the magika dks and Stam dks to have their mending a little longer and incentives the use of fragmented as a tool of damage, as it's don't lose their place as a tank tool. @ZOS_Wolfram @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom pls give the team this suggestion. I would suggest that dks have a passive that increseases dots on low health targets, just like dual wield tree.

MaxwellC

@Vesper_BR
It's because we have helping hands and it would be redundant for a stam DK to pay into a ability just to receive 5% of our max stam. Honestly igneous shield just needs to be reverted to what it was prior to this PTS change and just reduce the cost by 1,500 magicka.