DK Changes... Seriously?

MaxwellC

You done did it ZOS

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Dragonknight

• Ardent Flame
  • Inferno: Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 33%.
  • Lava Whip: Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 10%.
• Earthen Heart
  • Battle Roar: This passive ability now restores an equal amount of Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you use an Ultimate ability, and the amounts are now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource(s).
    Developer Comments:
    This will be a buff for each particular resource if your maximum is below 26,000, and a reduction if it is above. This will generally result in a buff to overall resources restored, but a reduction to the specific resource you are stacking.
  • Helping Hands: This passive ability now restores Stamina based on your character level instead of your Max Stamina.
    Developer Comments:
    This will be a buff if your Maximum Stamina is below 19,800 and a reduction if it is above.
  • Igneous Shield (Obsidian Shield morph): The Major Mending buff granted by this morph is now tied to your own damage shield. If the damage shield is removed, the Major Mending bonus will also be removed.
    Developer Comment:
    Major Mending is an extremely potent buff category for healing. The ease at which you are able to maintain it creates a system where only extreme damage can kill you because your health bar rapidly swings from near-empty to full. Adjusting the uptime on Igneous Shield’s Major Mending means you will need to think more tactically about when to use your healing abilities while also giving enemies counterplay towards stopping them.
  • Obsidian Shard (Stonefist morph): Fixed an issue where the friendly heal from this morph could be dodged.

You really did it this time. I got messages from people on XBL telling me to check out the forums PTS and just wow I'm baffled. I'm still taking time off this game because it still pisses me off with all that's wrong with it and the boring repetivive content with items locked behind the BoP wall killing diversity in the market but let's talk about these DK changes aka my only class that I play (DK).

You've yet again nerf'd Stamina DK like isn't it enough already lol? It's cool that these changes are buffs for Mag DK (Somewhat) but you fail to realize that there's a population that do/does play Stam DK.

Lava whip: Doesn't need a reduction, it's fine where it is and I play both versions of this class and yet again you have yet to address the soft CC issue with other various classes including my own but feel that the lava whip which already had a 5% increase in damage at the expense of my Stam DKs only AoE class specific ability (Standard of Might). I understand that this is due to the forced changes coming with morrowind i.e. CP reduction,etc since no one at ZOS can think "Hey let's just remove CP from PvP instead of messing with PvE".

Inferno: Still have yet to make this ability go back to an AoE and the reduction of this ability is welcomed but thanks for not giving the AoE back that should have returned long ago.

Battle Roar: Yet again it gets nerf'd jeez I mean haven't you guys done enough to this class (ofc not there's two more coming up). Battle roar was fine but instead this is another nerf for Stam DK and a buff for Mag DK because this benefits the return for stamina break free while on a Stam DK we cannot get the most out of our magicka dump because it's useless/EXPENSIVE and with this bloody patch it just got even worse (Will explain below). Thanks again for messing with battle roar, all the QQs in the past changed it once and now I guess there were more QQs; can't wait to see how Imma be tanking trials with the reduction changes and all gotta love it!

Helping hands: Lol didn't the previous PTS advocate that helping hands needs a buff or reduce the cost of igneous shield to aid stamina conversion but yet again you guys found a way to screw Stamina DK over yet again. This change is obviously geared towards Mag DKs which my Mag DK will benefit from but my Stam DK nope. Tanking trials will this help.. NOPE because I rely on my Max Stam with high Magic regen to keep igenous shield going but thanks again for not understanding anything as what I see from your developer comments which simply suggest what's a nerf and what's a buff without any in-depth explanation to why you decided to go this route throwing Stamina DKs off the bridge.

Igneous shield: After people wanting changes to this class you gave it... THANKS!... Oh wait a second nope you done screwed us over again. Now after ruining Templars Major mending you also decided to take DKs down a peg as well since both classes are innately support based while NBs & Sorcs are more DPS you thought eh let's make it harder for them to survive now because who cares. Last PTS people asked for Igneous shield to have a reduction in cost and prior to this you nerf'd this ability like what two times.. I guess that wasn't enough for you guys at ZOS. You talk about thinking tactically while other classes get to put that aside and just nuke us with major mending being our only survival to try and out heal and dodge that damage. This change is bad for both Mag and Stam DK because now you just force us to have to spam this shield so we can get that boost in healing so we don't die... Thanks ZOS true balance warriors here I tell ya.

Obsidian shard: Honestly who the hell cares about this ability in the first place, does anyone even use it? I need some statistics or something because I've never seen anyone use maybe new players who try it then throw it away like the useless garbage this ability is but other than that, that's it.

Disclaimer: I did not check for grammar inconsistencies, nor did I check to see if sentences were nicely punctuated. I'm pretty irritated with the fact the rest of my flame, on my DK has begun to fade.

Ragnaroek93

As someone who only plays magsorc and stamblade I say that the removal of Major Mending is way over the top. Will probably be a free win against Temps and Dks now

FoulSnowpaw

Consider the Following:

• Dragon Knights are more leaned as tanks. DPS should not be their go.
• The ARE "unkillable" DKs out there. Twenty people hitting a DK that never runs out of stamina or magicka; infinite block. Health never goes down until there are at least thirty people.
• A lot of DKs spam igneous shield infinitely, making them deathless.
• Helping hands give DKs extra blocking fuel + ultimate attribute refund = infinite block, health.

I honestly have to agree with the Zen Team's nerfs to DK. Good job team.

XaXa

Zarkeson wrote: »

Consider the Following:

• Dragon Knights are more leaned as tanks. DPS should not be their go.
• The ARE "unkillable" DKs out there. Twenty people hitting a DK that never runs out of stamina or magicka; infinite block. Health never goes down until there are at least thirty people.
• A lot of DKs spam igneous shield infinitely, making them deathless.
• Helping hands give DKs extra blocking fuel + ultimate attribute refund = infinite block, health.

I honestly have to agree with the Zen Team's nerfs to DK. Good job team.

Templars are more leaned as healers, DPS Should not be their go. oh wait. ZoS whole thing is play as you want. so that argument is invalid.

Seems like everything you listed is in regards to PVP. ZoS really needs to make PVP / PVE changes separate. they are doing harm to the PVE community for the sake of PVP problems.

MaxwellC

Zarkeson wrote: »

Consider the Following:

• Dragon Knights are more leaned as tanks. DPS should not be their go.
• The ARE "unkillable" DKs out there. Twenty people hitting a DK that never runs out of stamina or magicka; infinite block. Health never goes down until there are at least thirty people.
• A lot of DKs spam igneous shield infinitely, making them deathless.
• Helping hands give DKs extra blocking fuel + ultimate attribute refund = infinite block, health.

I honestly have to agree with the Zen Team's nerfs to DK. Good job team.

Jesus man where to begin, first off all you immediately contradict your first statement in your second statement. They're plenty of un-kill-able tanks in PvP but not PVE get that through your head buddy. Have you seen an un-kill-able Tank in a non CP Campaign... the answer is no. I've seen plenty of 70k Templar tanks in PvP and DKs do I mess with them.. NOPE. Can they kill me... NOPE. Why the hell would as you claim 30 people bottle themselves onto one person like idiots I can't explain that.

A lot of DKs spam igneous shield yes I spam it infinitely with 10k max magicka while the skill cost around 4.4-4.5k without any reductions.. mhmm... go play a DK before you comment because you clearly have not even played it for 1 hour let alone 10.
Yet again helping hands you talk about it giving blocking fuel it currently gives 5% of your MAX STAMINA what is 5% of 20k please do the math and then tell me what is 5% of 30k or 40k then use what I stated above in regards to the cost and the max magicka an average Stam DK will have in PvP.

Honestly I don't wanna go there and I won't but please don't even comment without doing some research because you clearly haven't done anything but provided speculator statements, and situational statements based on other factors rather than the class its self.

FoulSnowpaw

There are some tanks in pve that never die and never run out of mag/stamina. Everyone in the trial group died, but this one dude kept the battle on for a whole 20 min(until the dead got tired of being dead). What is able to be done in pvp is surely more applicable in pve.

I do agree that PVE/PVP changes should be SEPARATE in some cases. Much like in pvp we get "battle spirit".

EldritchPenguin

Zarkeson wrote: »

Consider the Following:

• Dragon Knights are more leaned as tanks. DPS should not be their go.
• The ARE "unkillable" DKs out there. Twenty people hitting a DK that never runs out of stamina or magicka; infinite block. Health never goes down until there are at least thirty people.
• A lot of DKs spam igneous shield infinitely, making them deathless.
• Helping hands give DKs extra blocking fuel + ultimate attribute refund = infinite block, health.

I honestly have to agree with the Zen Team's nerfs to DK. Good job team.

• Classes should not be shoehorned into roles. The fact that DPS builds are possible on "tank" and "healer" classes is a massive selling point of ESO. Letting a "tank" class pull good DPS is a much smaller offense in my book than killing build diversity.
• Twenty people beating on a DK and having the DK survive while also never running out of resources is a blatant lie. Dragonknights already have the utterly worst sustain in the game. They may have been capable of taking on zergs back when dynamic ultimate generation was a thing and they could throw out Devouring Swarms like candy, but that was a long time ago. The only build that can really survive that many people at once is a Blazing Shield Templar. And even those guys aren't infallible.
• Igneous Shield doesn't make you immortal. The shield itself is tiny. The primary use for it is for Major Mending to make Coagulating Blood more powerful, and Coagulating Blood is weaker than BoL... And even if you consider the Templar losing Major Mending, BoL is still stronger than CDB.
• Helping Hands is already a minuscule Stamina return, even for Stamknights. Battle Roar is powerful, but it's also the only thing that MagKnights have for sustain, and nerfing it is especially horrible when you consider that the class fights with attrition. How can you win through attrition if you always have worse sustain than your opponent?

FoulSnowpaw

MaxwellC wrote: »

Zarkeson wrote: »

Consider the Following:

• Dragon Knights are more leaned as tanks. DPS should not be their go.
• The ARE "unkillable" DKs out there. Twenty people hitting a DK that never runs out of stamina or magicka; infinite block. Health never goes down until there are at least thirty people.
• A lot of DKs spam igneous shield infinitely, making them deathless.
• Helping hands give DKs extra blocking fuel + ultimate attribute refund = infinite block, health.

I honestly have to agree with the Zen Team's nerfs to DK. Good job team.

Jesus man where to begin, first off all you immediately contradict your first statement in your second statement. They're plenty of un-kill-able tanks in PvP but not PVE get that through your head buddy. Have you seen an un-kill-able Tank in a non CP Campaign... the answer is no. I've seen plenty of 70k Templar tanks in PvP and DKs do I mess with them.. NOPE. Can they kill me... NOPE. Why the hell would as you claim 30 people bottle themselves onto one person like idiots I can't explain that.

A lot of DKs spam igneous shield yes I spam it infinitely with 10k max magicka while the skill cost around 4.4-4.5k without any reductions.. mhmm... go play a DK before you comment because you clearly have not even played it for 1 hour let alone 10.
Yet again helping hands you talk about it giving blocking fuel it currently gives 5% of your MAX STAMINA what is 5% of 20k please do the math and then tell me what is 5% of 30k or 40k then use what I stated above in regards to the cost and the max magicka an average Stam DK will have in PvP.

Honestly I don't wanna go there and I won't but please don't even comment without doing some research because you clearly haven't done anything but provided speculator statements, and situational statements based on other factors rather than the class its self.

I have a DK main with 30k health,18k stam, 20k mag. And eat food buddy. Don't assume. And don't call people names you'll get in trouble.

JDC1985

What a pile of crap they did this time pissing off the players that's been here for years trying to satisfy the people who play a month and quit.

D0ntevenL1ft

Zarkeson wrote: »

Consider the Following:

• Dragon Knights are more leaned as tanks. DPS should not be their go.
• The ARE "unkillable" DKs out there. Twenty people hitting a DK that never runs out of stamina or magicka; infinite block. Health never goes down until there are at least thirty people.
• A lot of DKs spam igneous shield infinitely, making them deathless.
• Helping hands give DKs extra blocking fuel + ultimate attribute refund = infinite block, health.

I honestly have to agree with the Zen Team's nerfs to DK. Good job team.

Wow just wow.

1) ZOS has stated that its play as you like and DK's are not made to be tanks.

2) No DK's spam igneous for the shield but rather for helping hands and major mending (only class speciality we have)

3) Helping hands was weak to say the least with 2k returns being casted twice or 3 times max (No where close to dark exchange which has remained untouched this patch)

4) What game do you even play because it doesn't seem like ESO.

olsborg

I do agree with zos on certain dk nerfs, like the major mending one and helping hands. Dks already have minor mending if im not mistaken and helping hands was clearly overperforming since some stamdks I know had 50k stamina.

D0ntevenL1ft

olsborg wrote: »

I do agree with zos on certain dk nerfs, like the major mending one and helping hands. Dks already have minor mending if im not mistaken and helping hands was clearly overperforming since some stamdks I know had 50k stamina.

If the problem is over performing then why no changes to dark exchange? My stam sorc can recover way easier than my stam dk, while also having free surge heals and amazing mobility.

Standing and fighting is all a DK had because we have no escape and no mobility and now we can't even do that.

RIP Flappywings you will make a great crafter.

MaxwellC

@olsborg
Yeah we have minor mending via dragon's blood then again you're missing it. You're stating the minor mending so you expect every DK to slot dragon's blood then combine that with igneous shield which would top around 8k magicka. Stam DKs aren't going to destroy their resource pool just like that especially in PvP and PvE.

How in the world is helping hands over performing even at 50k stamina which would come out to 2,500 stamina at the cost of 4.4k-4.5k magicka at that point you'd get back 5k when you spend nearly 10k magicka. Even with that you would need to sacrifice a lot and gear it to that hulking set that provides max stamina so yet again it's impossible that it's over performing as you stated.

MaxwellC

@D0ntevenL1ft
YES! My goodness I forgot all about dark deal great point on that.

D0ntevenL1ft

MaxwellC wrote: »

@D0ntevenL1ft
YES! My goodness I forgot all about dark deal great point on that.

Stam sorcs took absolutely no hit on sustain since nobody built for it regardless because this skill is so OP.

Like you said even at 50k stamina we get 2,500 stam back compared to roughly 4-5k per dark deal. The difference is that we get roughly 2-3 casts if lucky of igneous because its so expensive of a skill; this equates to roughly one dark deal which still leaves sorcs with enough magic for several recasts AND a streak away.

HOW were the DK's nerfed when the above situation is the real one.

MaxwellC

@D0ntevenL1ft
Like I said before it's all about the propaganda people are feeding others that then gets regurgitated without actually checking. This spreads like wild fire and I forget who said it but the quote stands as "The great lie can be the truest of true" I think socrates but no clue.

This is ZOS doing something they shouldn't do or better yet had no need to do.

olsborg

MaxwellC wrote: »

@olsborg
Yeah we have minor mending via dragon's blood then again you're missing it. You're stating the minor mending so you expect every DK to slot dragon's blood then combine that with igneous shield which would top around 8k magicka. Stam DKs aren't going to destroy their resource pool just like that especially in PvP and PvE.

How in the world is helping hands over performing even at 50k stamina which would come out to 2,500 stamina at the cost of 4.4k-4.5k magicka at that point you'd get back 5k when you spend nearly 10k magicka. Even with that you would need to sacrifice a lot and gear it to that hulking set that provides max stamina so yet again it's impossible that it's over performing as you stated.

I might agree that isolated on its own, helping hands is only strong, not overpeforming, but put into a minmax build with a heavy armor stamdk who's also a redguard you could play a noregen build but still end up with better sustain then a medium armor regen build with 2500 stamregen. This is why ZOS nerfs the resource returns from passives, sure they might have overdone it, as usual, but some kindof nerf was needed.

D0ntevenL1ft

olsborg wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@olsborg
Yeah we have minor mending via dragon's blood then again you're missing it. You're stating the minor mending so you expect every DK to slot dragon's blood then combine that with igneous shield which would top around 8k magicka. Stam DKs aren't going to destroy their resource pool just like that especially in PvP and PvE.

How in the world is helping hands over performing even at 50k stamina which would come out to 2,500 stamina at the cost of 4.4k-4.5k magicka at that point you'd get back 5k when you spend nearly 10k magicka. Even with that you would need to sacrifice a lot and gear it to that hulking set that provides max stamina so yet again it's impossible that it's over performing as you stated.

I might agree that isolated on its own, helping hands is only strong, not overpeforming, but put into a minmax build with a heavy armor stamdk who's also a redguard you could play a noregen build but still end up with better sustain then a medium armor regen build with 2500 stamregen. This is why ZOS nerfs the resource returns from passives, sure they might have overdone it, as usual, but some kindof nerf was needed.

Yet a stamsorc who can build completely on damage remains untouched. Also, since when do we dedicate nerfs and buffs based on min/max builds?

So why not add in min/max sorc whose loaded up to 50k magicka; why are his shields not nerfed? Something needs to be done about that but clearly its over looked and changes are made on classes and skills that are perfectly balanced.

The problem wasn't the DK passives it was idiotic sets like Hulking Draugr and necropotence for magicka counterparts etc.

Quit nerfing classes when the real problem is broken gear addition.

olsborg

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@olsborg
Yeah we have minor mending via dragon's blood then again you're missing it. You're stating the minor mending so you expect every DK to slot dragon's blood then combine that with igneous shield which would top around 8k magicka. Stam DKs aren't going to destroy their resource pool just like that especially in PvP and PvE.

How in the world is helping hands over performing even at 50k stamina which would come out to 2,500 stamina at the cost of 4.4k-4.5k magicka at that point you'd get back 5k when you spend nearly 10k magicka. Even with that you would need to sacrifice a lot and gear it to that hulking set that provides max stamina so yet again it's impossible that it's over performing as you stated.

I might agree that isolated on its own, helping hands is only strong, not overpeforming, but put into a minmax build with a heavy armor stamdk who's also a redguard you could play a noregen build but still end up with better sustain then a medium armor regen build with 2500 stamregen. This is why ZOS nerfs the resource returns from passives, sure they might have overdone it, as usual, but some kindof nerf was needed.

Yet a stamsorc who can build completely on damage remains untouched. Also, since when do we dedicate nerfs and buffs based on min/max builds?

So why not add in min/max sorc whose loaded up to 50k magicka; why are his shields not nerfed? Something needs to be done about that but clearly its over looked and changes are made on classes and skills that are perfectly balanced.

The problem wasn't the DK passives it was idiotic sets like Hulking Draugr and necropotence for magicka counterparts etc.

Quit nerfing classes when the real problem is broken gear addition.

Not disagreeing on your points here, but this thread is about the dk, fyi.

D0ntevenL1ft

olsborg wrote: »

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@olsborg
Yeah we have minor mending via dragon's blood then again you're missing it. You're stating the minor mending so you expect every DK to slot dragon's blood then combine that with igneous shield which would top around 8k magicka. Stam DKs aren't going to destroy their resource pool just like that especially in PvP and PvE.

How in the world is helping hands over performing even at 50k stamina which would come out to 2,500 stamina at the cost of 4.4k-4.5k magicka at that point you'd get back 5k when you spend nearly 10k magicka. Even with that you would need to sacrifice a lot and gear it to that hulking set that provides max stamina so yet again it's impossible that it's over performing as you stated.

I might agree that isolated on its own, helping hands is only strong, not overpeforming, but put into a minmax build with a heavy armor stamdk who's also a redguard you could play a noregen build but still end up with better sustain then a medium armor regen build with 2500 stamregen. This is why ZOS nerfs the resource returns from passives, sure they might have overdone it, as usual, but some kindof nerf was needed.

Yet a stamsorc who can build completely on damage remains untouched. Also, since when do we dedicate nerfs and buffs based on min/max builds?

So why not add in min/max sorc whose loaded up to 50k magicka; why are his shields not nerfed? Something needs to be done about that but clearly its over looked and changes are made on classes and skills that are perfectly balanced.

The problem wasn't the DK passives it was idiotic sets like Hulking Draugr and necropotence for magicka counterparts etc.

Quit nerfing classes when the real problem is broken gear addition.

Not disagreeing on your points here, but this thread is about the dk, fyi.

This thread is about the massive blow to the DK which directly incorporates other classes through their relationship to this class. FYI.

Edited because i was hostile and angry at ZOS.

MaxwellC

@olsborg
That's yet again situational and also doesn't make sense on a heavy armor DK which I play as a Redguard for PvE I cannot sustain indefnitely nor do I over perform nor is it strong as it's considerably weak. In PvP if I'm a heavy armor DK running around with igneous shield as my main sustain along side the HA passive I will surely die. Don't confuse us DKs with Stam Sorcs.
ZoS is doing a blanket nerf to sustain to try to get an idea with the PTS testing on what to do and I'm trying to cold stop them from even thinking this needs to be done. A nerf isn't needed for DKs sustain as it's already terrible, many others in the previous PTS thread will go through an in depth explanation heck even I did one before.

olsborg

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@olsborg
Yeah we have minor mending via dragon's blood then again you're missing it. You're stating the minor mending so you expect every DK to slot dragon's blood then combine that with igneous shield which would top around 8k magicka. Stam DKs aren't going to destroy their resource pool just like that especially in PvP and PvE.

How in the world is helping hands over performing even at 50k stamina which would come out to 2,500 stamina at the cost of 4.4k-4.5k magicka at that point you'd get back 5k when you spend nearly 10k magicka. Even with that you would need to sacrifice a lot and gear it to that hulking set that provides max stamina so yet again it's impossible that it's over performing as you stated.

I might agree that isolated on its own, helping hands is only strong, not overpeforming, but put into a minmax build with a heavy armor stamdk who's also a redguard you could play a noregen build but still end up with better sustain then a medium armor regen build with 2500 stamregen. This is why ZOS nerfs the resource returns from passives, sure they might have overdone it, as usual, but some kindof nerf was needed.

Yet a stamsorc who can build completely on damage remains untouched. Also, since when do we dedicate nerfs and buffs based on min/max builds?

So why not add in min/max sorc whose loaded up to 50k magicka; why are his shields not nerfed? Something needs to be done about that but clearly its over looked and changes are made on classes and skills that are perfectly balanced.

The problem wasn't the DK passives it was idiotic sets like Hulking Draugr and necropotence for magicka counterparts etc.

Quit nerfing classes when the real problem is broken gear addition.

Not disagreeing on your points here, but this thread is about the dk, fyi.

This thread is about the massive blow to the DK which directly incorporates other classes through their relationship to this class. This is an online game isn't it? We have character interaction?…. FYI.

If youre displeased that stamsorc didnt get nerfed and dk did, make a thread about it, but for the sake of keeping this thread on topic, wich is the nerf to dk....yea well...

MaxwellC

@olsborg
There's nothing wrong with citing other classes in response to a DKs changes, it's a form of comparison. He's stating that sustain on a sorc is high yet that wasn't addressed while DKs sustain is dismal yet it's been addressed negatively. There's nothing wrong with that at all as it relates to the DK class and questions why ZOS thought this was a good change over-all.

Durham

Zarkeson wrote: »

Consider the Following:

• Dragon Knights are more leaned as tanks. DPS should not be their go.
• The ARE "unkillable" DKs out there. Twenty people hitting a DK that never runs out of stamina or magicka; infinite block. Health never goes down until there are at least thirty people.
• A lot of DKs spam igneous shield infinitely, making them deathless.
• Helping hands give DKs extra blocking fuel + ultimate attribute refund = infinite block, health.

I honestly have to agree with the Zen Team's nerfs to DK. Good job

You have no clue man ... what has been done it's beyond a nerf ...

D0ntevenL1ft

MaxwellC wrote: »

@olsborg
There's nothing wrong with citing other classes in response to a DKs changes, it's a form of comparison. He's stating that sustain on a sorc is high yet that wasn't addressed while DKs sustain is dismal yet it's been addressed negatively. There's nothing wrong with that at all as it relates to the DK class and questions why ZOS thought this was a good change over-all.

Atleast some people can see that comparisons are an essential way to show the problems with the class we are talking about. Was literally typing this as you posted.

We need to see the relationship between classes not a class in its singularity. How would this help us in a game when all the classes play with one another? We don't have thousands of dragon knights running around fighting themselves we have mixed classes and diversity and these need to interact in a fair and balanced manor.

We don't get balanced when specific classes take massive hits and others are left untouched; all this does is place them farther apart on the balance spectrum. Therefore we need to look at classes and site other classes in order to better develop and progress a to a happy medium.

Would i ever want my dk to win every 1v1 because of a sustain handicap placed on the other class? Nope thats not fun at all. Balance and competition is fun and thats what we all can agree on here

olsborg

MaxwellC wrote: »

@olsborg
That's yet again situational and also doesn't make sense on a heavy armor DK which I play as a Redguard for PvE I cannot sustain indefnitely nor do I over perform nor is it strong as it's considerably weak. In PvP if I'm a heavy armor DK running around with igneous shield as my main sustain along side the HA passive I will surely die. Don't confuse us DKs with Stam Sorcs.
ZoS is doing a blanket nerf to sustain to try to get an idea with the PTS testing on what to do and I'm trying to cold stop them from even thinking this needs to be done. A nerf isn't needed for DKs sustain as it's already terrible, many others in the previous PTS thread will go through an in depth explanation heck even I did one before.

Just going by what I see in cyrodiil and what my friends who play stamdks say. On minmax builds utilizing passives to get stamina back, its clearly very strong. Most if not all nerfs that are based on pvp are done so because of minmax builds. Not saying I completely agree on what ZOS has done to stamdk specficly this pts, but I do think that the passives that give stamina back based on max resource pool was in need of some adjustment (downwards). Heck I recently changed my imperial stamblade into redguard with a stam pool of almost 40k and the stamina I got back from adrenaline rush was pretty sick.<- (just as an example to how the resource return is on live atm from passives)

Durham

This was way over the top ... people still have the DK of last fall in their brains ... Since Christmas I have not ran into but a few DKS that I cant kill that can actually kill you.... The number of stam DK's on the field is so small now...
There is stamina return is abysmal.now... keep in mind there are only 2 stam abilities on the class and they are both dots....

FoulSnowpaw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9sYmM4TfHY&amp;t=0s
One example of real DK tanking. Plenty more for real pros.

MaxwellC

@olsborg Yet again this doesn't call for a nerf to helping hands mate. You cannot tell me that a 4.4k-4.5k igneous shield that gives 5% of your max stamina and at 40k that is 2k stamina is something so insane when you are using skills that are costing that amount if not more and further more yeah I play PvP and I'm not sure what you're rank is but I'm a Legate Grade 2 almost Gen so I've played a lot of PvP (might I add entirely solo unless I'm emperor). I'm a Redguard Stam DK so I do not understand or I cannot comprehend how you think this nerf is needed or in any shape or form fair.

MaxwellC

@Zarkeson
Patched lol Please buddy this wasn't even involving the DK in the first place rather the armor leeching. It's been patched the leeching plate B.S especially since the nerf to proc sets so yet again Try again with the "That one time at band camp"

Durham

olsborg wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@olsborg
Yeah we have minor mending via dragon's blood then again you're missing it. You're stating the minor mending so you expect every DK to slot dragon's blood then combine that with igneous shield which would top around 8k magicka. Stam DKs aren't going to destroy their resource pool just like that especially in PvP and PvE.

How in the world is helping hands over performing even at 50k stamina which would come out to 2,500 stamina at the cost of 4.4k-4.5k magicka at that point you'd get back 5k when you spend nearly 10k magicka. Even with that you would need to sacrifice a lot and gear it to that hulking set that provides max stamina so yet again it's impossible that it's over performing as you stated.

I might agree that isolated on its own, helping hands is only strong, not overpeforming, but put into a minmax build with a heavy armor stamdk who's also a redguard you could play a noregen build but still end up with better sustain then a medium armor regen build with 2500 stamregen. This is why ZOS nerfs the resource returns from passives, sure they might have overdone it, as usual, but some kindof nerf was needed.

40 k Stam is 2k return that you can only cast 3 times ... in conjuction with armor buff which is using about 15k majicka and you have 500 magicka regen ... Good DKS got stamina from heavy attacks that was nerf last patch