DK Changes... Seriously?

Xvorg

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Mangeli200194
Lol before I jump off, it's nice to see another come into my thread. It's funny in your post you mention black rose, blood-spawn, and agility set... you know what they all have in common? THEY'RE NOT CLASS SPECIFIC. Isn't that incredible I mean who wouldn't thunk it?! I love how you throw around alternative facts stating that "40-50 percent of PvP are all DKs" (Paraphrased), as if that's some wide knowledge lol get out of my thread.

Nope they arent, funny thou that a vast majority wears it thou. And substain wise any heavy armor was stupidly overperforming on dks cause you can literally run around with not even thinking about substain and do fine.
Or how else would you explain the huge amount of dks beeing played in pvp???? And yeah 40 to 50 percent im bascically in pvp all the time!! For example on my Healer wearing 7 pc light armor i had a Magika Dk lava whip me non stop 15 min......
And certain things ARE CLASS SPECIFIC for example Blood spawn on Dragon knights and heavy armor!!!!

I was almost not going to comment on your first stupid post but 2 in a row needs to be called out on.

The entire game uses bloodspawn and black rose these are sets not specific class attributes. This armour was almost more consistently seen on night blades than DK's this patch as we moved to fury.

First off there are NOT a huge number of DK's in pvp they've been a dying breed patch after patch. The only reason you "think" you see a large number is because they are so easily spottable with volatile armour on.

Secondly, you just said a magicka DK can whip you for 15 mins on your healer "non stop", and yet the DK class was broken? Not your OP heals? Stick your foot in your mouth before you say another thing thats not true.

Unlike him im fully specced for substain and heals(e.g. not a single damaging ability slotted on both bars). its like accusing a tank of beeing tanky bro doesnt make sense. And he also sucked a bit. So yeah thank god dks were nerfed maby the players will learn again how to manage their resources without crutching on battle roar and helping hands!!!!!!!!!!
And im still sticking with it>>>> Before the patch notes were realeased at least on my platform about 40 to 50 percent were either stam or magica dks or reactive templers. On the "elite " groups even higher.

What platform do you play on the GameCube? I can say for like a week after homstead people tried it out then left real fast but not to many at all once the figured out dk was far from meta.

Nope, console and the moment when you see a 8 man group walking past you (in stealth ), 5 stam dks, 2 magica dks and a bomb blade you know something is wrong with the game balance. so again , good job zenimax!!!! i love the adjustments you guys made, keep up the good job!!

A DK sneaking? That's something to be seen....

and not only one but 5!!!

And 2 mDKs in stealth too.

Did yo took a picture of them? You could have won the Pulitzer for that... is like seeing a raptors pack in the real world...

Durham

NBrookus wrote: »

Mag DKs are in the same boat sustain-wise. Let's pull together and focus on the damage to the class overall.

I can see stam DK being semi-playable in PvP, but not mag DKs. OTOH, I think stam DKs are hurting far more in endgame PvE than magicka.

No I disagree Stam PVP iwas hit much harder .... I lost about -65 to 70 % of total stam return when you add it all up.....
-My heal is now costs me 55% more ...
-All my stam abilities are costing me 15% more
-Magicka return down 42% which affects how much stam return I get ...
-In PVP the blocking nerf means 50% increase in that cost... unless you have 1 person with twohander attacking u

No stam no magicka get use to as a stam knight

- PTS you need tons of return and you can't block but sporactically lol i have a build on test right now with 2100k regen ..

reiverx

I think stam DKs were hit especially hard. Mag DKs were already at the bottom of the barrel.

Hutch679

Here's some constructive input; Don't buy Morrowind

MaxwellC

@Hutch679
Honestly that's hardly constructive but I don't intend on buying morrowind at all thanks to these changes.

Rhyono

As a DK that doesn't have any interest in no longer being a DK I'm...no longer going to be a DK, because I won't be playing.

KramUzibra

I run a medium, 40k Stan dk redguard! I got the nerf hammer so hard this patch...

Durham

Rhyono wrote: »

As a DK that doesn't have any interest in no longer being a DK I'm...no longer going to be a DK, because I won't be playing.

For me that has played all the classes but 90% of my time has been on the DK .... I have practiced on this charactor ... I have built countless builds for him.... I have PVP solo and small man to rank 40 on Had...... For me I have put so much time in this toon for me its what I am in this game..... Not sure I can play the game without the class that I have grown to love to play... Heavy Armor S/B & Two hand is the meta that I prefer to play in this game...

Stalwart385

Why nerf battle roar? DK's already had sustain issues. The igneous shield thing was also unnecessary. That shield is so small that you have a good chance of never seeing the mending buff.

TheStealthDude

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Why nerf battle roar? DK's already had sustain issues. The igneous shield thing was also unnecessary. That shield is so small that you have a good chance of never seeing the mending buff.

Perhaps their intent was that they wanted Major Mending to be used by DK Healers (for which the shield actually stays up longer) rather than by StamDKs to heal themselves in PvP? It seems like they don't want Major Mending to be a big part of PvP, which I don't disagree with.

Ocelot9x

TheStealthDude wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Why nerf battle roar? DK's already had sustain issues. The igneous shield thing was also unnecessary. That shield is so small that you have a good chance of never seeing the mending buff.

Perhaps their intent was that they wanted Major Mending to be used by DK Healers (for which the shield actually stays up longer) rather than by StamDKs to heal themselves in PvP? It seems like they don't want Major Mending to be a big part of PvP, which I don't disagree with.

I can stand the passives changes but losing major mending is too much. That change need to be addressed. We lost everything that made us special

TheStealthDude

Ocelot9x wrote: »

TheStealthDude wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Why nerf battle roar? DK's already had sustain issues. The igneous shield thing was also unnecessary. That shield is so small that you have a good chance of never seeing the mending buff.

Perhaps their intent was that they wanted Major Mending to be used by DK Healers (for which the shield actually stays up longer) rather than by StamDKs to heal themselves in PvP? It seems like they don't want Major Mending to be a big part of PvP, which I don't disagree with.

I can stand the passives changes but losing major mending is too much. That change need to be addressed. We lost everything that made us special

But we didn't lose it. It just makes using it in the heat of the battle tougher, which I think is their goal. They don't want you to be able to constantly full-heal without having to disengage from combat. They essentially wanted to make it take more consideration in sustaining all 3 resources across the board.

And we still have the buff for PvE healing, which looks to be a bit more viable now that they fixed the bug with shard and greatly lowered the cost of inferno (for Cauterize).

Ocelot9x

TheStealthDude wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

TheStealthDude wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Why nerf battle roar? DK's already had sustain issues. The igneous shield thing was also unnecessary. That shield is so small that you have a good chance of never seeing the mending buff.

Perhaps their intent was that they wanted Major Mending to be used by DK Healers (for which the shield actually stays up longer) rather than by StamDKs to heal themselves in PvP? It seems like they don't want Major Mending to be a big part of PvP, which I don't disagree with.

I can stand the passives changes but losing major mending is too much. That change need to be addressed. We lost everything that made us special

But we didn't lose it. It just makes using it in the heat of the battle tougher, which I think is their goal. They don't want you to be able to constantly full-heal without having to disengage from combat. They essentially wanted to make it take more consideration in sustaining all 3 resources across the board.

And we still have the buff for PvE healing, which looks to be a bit more viable now that they fixed the bug with shard and greatly lowered the cost of inferno (for Cauterize).

Trust me, we lost it in PvP. Even if you cast vigor -igneous- roll dodge you'll be lucky to get one tick of your heal empowered. And that's not considering a random poison injection/vampires bane destroying the shield in one tick. 1,8k shield is just ridiculous, also considering that in medium armor you are constantly out of magicka.

Norn

For PVE tanks perma block meta ain't gonna change but I think that sentence was aimed towards PVP perma block builds, so whatever.

What we're gonna have to do is basically push the block cost down a lot more, currently most people run with 500 block cost now that we don't have anything useful in Green tree. 25% Shadow Ward and Sturdy on small pieces will result in around 250 block cost. This will at least counter block cooldown reduction to some extent.

On the other hand there are CP changes. For most DDs, CPs being frontloaded means they will end up with 25-35 extra points due to not putting more than 75 points into Elemental Expert/Mighty because it doesn't yield the same return anymore so these extra points could easily be spent on penetration CP and make Alkosh completely redundant, since they will be already overpenetrating. Hopefully there is going to be a good replacement set with better group support. I'd say Alkosh would still be required on Off-tank for trash fights but if these CP changes stay the same I hardly doubt any Main-tank will be needing it.

MaxwellC

@TheStealthDude
When it comes to DK healing which I do in PvE even trials. This doesn't help, the shield provided by igneous shield is way too low for it to even survive in PvE. The only way for it to survive is for the tank to immediately grab all aggro in the room per each engagement (which is tough depending on what needs to be grabbed) and I must not take damage whatsoever to keep major mending going because 1 hit in PvE will break that flimsy shield.

All of these changes aren't needed or justified to begin with, this was just a shot at sustain across the board (except for sorcerers because idk).

PeggymoeXD

I haven't been on the forums in a while. But I need to voice my disgust.

I hereby voice my disgust.

Oompuh

Norn wrote: »

For PVE tanks perma block meta ain't gonna change but I think that sentence was aimed towards PVP perma block builds, so whatever.

What we're gonna have to do is basically push the block cost down a lot more, currently most people run with 500 block cost now that we don't have anything useful in Green tree. 25% Shadow Ward and Sturdy on small pieces will result in around 250 block cost. This will at least counter block cooldown reduction to some extent.

On the other hand there are CP changes. For most DDs, CPs being frontloaded means they will end up with 25-35 extra points due to not putting more than 75 points into Elemental Expert/Mighty because it's not that profitable anymore and considering how heavy attacks might become the next meta build and how they consume Off-balance(unless ZOS does something about it), I highly doubt any magicka DD would be putting 75 points in Thaumaturge anymore. So these extra points could easily be spent on penetration CP and make Alkosh completely redundant, since they will be already overpenetrating. Hopefully there is going to be a good replacement set with better group support. I'd say Alkosh would still be required on Off-tank for trash fights but if these CP changes stay the same I hardly doubt any Main-tank will be needing it.

Good point on Alkosh there. Well have to see how it plays out, War-Machine is a good alternative fron HoF

Dragath

shortening the major mending buff to 3 seconds would have been a better choice. the shield is just too weak to last even 2 seconds. combined with the sustain nerf, is just not worth it anymore to cast igneous to "maybe" get one major mending heal off, and most likely you won't.

D0ntevenL1ft

KramUzibra wrote: »

I run a medium, 40k Stan dk redguard! I got the nerf hammer so hard this patch...

Just remember "this will be a buff if" AKA ZOS is laughing in our faces right now

Personofsecrets

Woeler wrote: »

I have already done some trial tanking on the PTS and it is just a matter of adapting. It's nothing THAT bad. If these changes mean you cannot tank on a DK anymore then it's you, not the class.

Your green CP have no real place besides Shadowward now anyways, and with a full shadowward and full sturdy you can reach a block cost of 88 stamina per hit. That amount is a total joke and allows you to still very easily permablock any fight in the game. Easily. I'm not saying that is the way to go, but it is the minimum cost reachable.

Yes, DK tanks got nerfed, so did almost everybody else. If you want to make a difference in the PVE playfield, go support your templar healers in the templar topics. They got hit unreasonably hard just to make the warden look good.

Templars did not get hit unreasonably at all. The developers have been very level headed an even handed with their game updates.

Face the facts, for a long time templars have had too easy of a life. Now we get to see who the good templars really are and those players should be happy.

They should be happy that they get some new and fun challenges. Playing templar was so boring before and now we just have to adapt.

Not a big deal really.

Riggsy

Such BS in this thread, you want less perma-blocking DKs? Go to the non-CP campaign, they dont exist there.
But these massive changes will screw up those of us that play STAM DPS DKs in PvE and in Azuras PVP...

I can only surmise it's because they want everyone to start over with a Warden.

Durham

wimoder

Riggsy wrote: »

Such BS in this thread, you want less perma-blocking DKs? Go to the non-CP campaign, they dont exist there.
But these massive changes will screw up those of us that play STAM DPS DKs in PvE and in Azuras PVP...

I can only surmise it's because they want everyone to start over with a Warden.

RIGGSY i agree with you...
Riggsy even on the CP campaign in order to perms block you have to have shield ulti and give up some DPS .. your spike is down ... it was not a problem ... having someone perms block lol what is he actually doing nothing!!!! What threat level is he ... I put him right above a mud crab lol

DisgracefulMind

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

I have already done some trial tanking on the PTS and it is just a matter of adapting. It's nothing THAT bad. If these changes mean you cannot tank on a DK anymore then it's you, not the class.

Your green CP have no real place besides Shadowward now anyways, and with a full shadowward and full sturdy you can reach a block cost of 88 stamina per hit. That amount is a total joke and allows you to still very easily permablock any fight in the game. Easily. I'm not saying that is the way to go, but it is the minimum cost reachable.

Yes, DK tanks got nerfed, so did almost everybody else. If you want to make a difference in the PVE playfield, go support your templar healers in the templar topics. They got hit unreasonably hard just to make the warden look good.

Templars did not get hit unreasonably at all. The developers have been very level headed an even handed with their game updates.

Face the facts, for a long time templars have had too easy of a life. Now we get to see who the good templars really are and those players should be happy.

They should be happy that they get some new and fun challenges. Playing templar was so boring before and now we just have to adapt.

Not a big deal really.

Repentance is the most asinine nerf ZoS has done in awhile.

I'm okay with some of the changes, truly I understand some of the direction. But I won't ever be okay with how ZoS treated us this patch.

EDIT: I see now xD

t3hdubzy

My dk tank in light armor Is able to heal, sustain, tank, and burst most people down....

I on occassion use guard on my squishy allies.

Just sayin.

Durham

t3hdubzy wrote: »

My dk tank in light armor Is able to heal, sustain, tank, and burst most people down....

I on occassion use guard on my squishy allies.

Just sayin.

on this patch your dead bud ...

about 2 secs of blocking your stam will be gone to block ... Most PVP players will debuff your armor to effective 0 Armor if you are wearing light.... your health is low because you are wearing light ..... One crit rush with a viper proc, pierce armor and tremor scale proc and and you now have a nice dot ticking on you You sir are in execute range

Durham

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

I have already done some trial tanking on the PTS and it is just a matter of adapting. It's nothing THAT bad. If these changes mean you cannot tank on a DK anymore then it's you, not the class.

Your green CP have no real place besides Shadowward now anyways, and with a full shadowward and full sturdy you can reach a block cost of 88 stamina per hit. That amount is a total joke and allows you to still very easily permablock any fight in the game. Easily. I'm not saying that is the way to go, but it is the minimum cost reachable.

Yes, DK tanks got nerfed, so did almost everybody else. If you want to make a difference in the PVE playfield, go support your templar healers in the templar topics. They got hit unreasonably hard just to make the warden look good.

Templars did not get hit unreasonably at all. The developers have been very level headed an even handed with their game updates.

Face the facts, for a long time templars have had too easy of a life. Now we get to see who the good templars really are and those players should be happy.

They should be happy that they get some new and fun challenges. Playing templar was so boring before and now we just have to adapt.

Not a big deal really.

Repentance is the most asinine nerf ZoS has done in awhile.

I'm okay with some of the changes, truly I understand some of the direction. But I won't ever be okay with how ZoS treated us this patch.

EDIT: I see now xD

Yes its a buff if you have 17k stamina Helping Hands POOOOOOOOOOOOR Stamina builds !!!!1

t3hdubzy

Durham wrote: »

t3hdubzy wrote: »

My dk tank in light armor Is able to heal, sustain, tank, and burst most people down....

I on occassion use guard on my squishy allies.

Just sayin.

on this patch your dead bud ...

about 2 secs of blocking your stam will be gone to block ... Most PVP players will debuff your armor to effective 0 Armor if you are wearing light.... your health is low because you are wearing light ..... One crit rush with a viper proc, pierce armor and tremor scale proc and and you now have a nice dot ticking on you You sir are in execute range

This is fine by me, i shouldnt be so powerful to tank mobs of scrubs 5 plus with this build.

Right now with volatile armor i have 27k spell resist and 24k phys resist. Add a shield or ward and im tough to kill. I can spam heal 10 plus times when it gets heated. By then im ready to dragon leap, whip whip rinse and repeat,

Ocelot9x

t3hdubzy wrote: »

My dk tank in light armor Is able to heal, sustain, tank, and burst most people down....

I on occassion use guard on my squishy allies.

Just sayin.

Light armor dk in open world=thank you for the ap

t3hdubzy

Ocelot9x wrote: »

t3hdubzy wrote: »

My dk tank in light armor Is able to heal, sustain, tank, and burst most people down....

I on occassion use guard on my squishy allies.

Just sayin.

Light armor dk in open world=thank you for the ap

Not this dk... often times im fighting npcs in imperial city when someone drops a leap, destro ult, or tries to gank, and they end up dead......

I only have problems with sorcs with great shield usage, or multiple gankblades when im not running RML.

With the sorc i can last long enough to call a buddy over, with the gankblades i die, re slot my skills, go back and kill them.

Durham

t3hdubzy wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

t3hdubzy wrote: »

My dk tank in light armor Is able to heal, sustain, tank, and burst most people down....

I on occassion use guard on my squishy allies.

Just sayin.

Light armor dk in open world=thank you for the ap

Not this dk... often times im fighting npcs in imperial city when someone drops a leap, destro ult, or tries to gank, and they end up dead......

I only have problems with sorcs with great shield usage, or multiple gankblades when im not running RML.

With the sorc i can last long enough to call a buddy over, with the gankblades i die, re slot my skills, go back and kill them.

Ok lol .... even you can which I doubt you are successful as you sound ...after the next patch you will be dead pretty quick block casting will be completely dead.....