DK Changes... Seriously?

kadar · April 2017

Durham wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Helping Hands is already a minuscule Stamina return, even for Stamknights. Battle Roar is powerful, but it's also the only thing that MagKnights have for sustain, and nerfing it is especially horrible when you consider that the class fights with attrition. How can you win through attrition if you always have worse sustain than your opponent?

Helping Hands will net you 2,000 Stam with ~40k Max Stam. That's hardly minuscule.

Battle Roar will return more Health and Stamina for mDKs now. The change is part of a overarching combat change to prevent resource return from stacking 1 attribute to high heaven.

Winning through attrition is the old DK way. With buffs to whip, Leap, Flame staff, the popularity of BSW, and a BoL-esqe health, mDKs are burstier than ever in PVP.

Umm no ...not 2000 it's more like 1000..... max stam has nothing to do with it now it's level based... you get a break even at around 18k stam.... Battle Roar returns less stam .... your major mending is gutted... cost of block is x2 ... 30% increase the cost vigor ..... 10% more for all stam abilities...

I agree that magicka DKs did not take it on the chin as much as stam did .... as a class stam DKs are hurting

He says already. Meaning currently. I'm clarifying how much Helping Hands will net you right now. No idea what it's going to be post-update.

Vigor, block and I think it's 5% more (?), those things affect all stam classes.

Buuuut I agree, the Igneous shield nerf is damn heavy... Although my sNB has no sympathy for your newfound lack of major mending.

MaxwellC · April 2017

@WillhelmBlack
Yeah you do and please post relevant videos that aren't oh I don't know over 4 months behind on recent changes to armor, skills,etc. Yet again another video that shows nothing other than what CP/armor can do but not what the base Class can do on it's on.---Next.

Do me a favor post a video that is within the latest title update, giving you a big one here

Addition: Yet again as stated before (I think on page 1) there are plenty of tanks in PvP and can they kill you on their own? NOPE. Lol seriously you act like tanking in PvP shouldn't be a thing, I can see if this person was tanking and dishing out decent damage that wrecked people but yet again no it's just him tanking and CCing people all day. My goodness mate if you're going to try and validate something that is outdated at-least make it feed into the un-kill-able gods of war as you and that zak guy claim DKs to be.

You talked about bastion, so you now want Stam DKs to funnel 40 points into bastion...goodness man I'm glad you'll never be taken serious when it comes to balance changes and that's something I definitely see.

dirtykdx · April 2017

The_Outsider wrote: »

I'm clarifying how much Helping Hands will net you right now. No idea what it's going to be post-update

Roughly 900 990 stamina at CP cap.

MaxwellC · April 2017

@WillhelmBlack
Also from judging this guy is using Vitality pots that weren't nerf'd at the time alongside Reactive,blood spawn, and most likely a 3 piece magic regen set put all this together and ofc you'd have high sustain especially since this is in a CHAMPION POINT CAMPAIGN (All caps since you probably don't understand the influence of CP on a class).

Durham · April 2017

The_Outsider wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Helping Hands is already a minuscule Stamina return, even for Stamknights. Battle Roar is powerful, but it's also the only thing that MagKnights have for sustain, and nerfing it is especially horrible when you consider that the class fights with attrition. How can you win through attrition if you always have worse sustain than your opponent?

Helping Hands will net you 2,000 Stam with ~40k Max Stam. That's hardly minuscule.

Battle Roar will return more Health and Stamina for mDKs now. The change is part of a overarching combat change to prevent resource return from stacking 1 attribute to high heaven.

Winning through attrition is the old DK way. With buffs to whip, Leap, Flame staff, the popularity of BSW, and a BoL-esqe health, mDKs are burstier than ever in PVP.

Umm no ...not 2000 it's more like 1000..... max stam has nothing to do with it now it's level based... you get a break even at around 18k stam.... Battle Roar returns less stam .... your major mending is gutted... cost of block is x2 ... 30% increase the cost vigor ..... 10% more for all stam abilities...

I agree that magicka DKs did not take it on the chin as much as stam did .... as a class stam DKs are hurting

He says already. Meaning currently. I'm clarifying how much Helping Hands will net you right now. No idea what it's going to be post-update.

Vigor, block and I think it's 5% more (?), those things affect all stam classes.

Buuuut I agree, the Igneous shield nerf is damn heavy... Although my sNB has no sympathy for your newfound lack of major mending.

-30% increase in vigor costs...
-Blocking has been changed with multiple hits it's 50% more...

Your stam Night blade will have no trouble with DKs my brothers stamblade destroyed me in a duel where I knew he was coming last night... before last night it was longer and I usually edged him out... now I'm destroyed rather quickly ...he is actually doing more damage now then before ...
-

kadar · April 2017

Durham wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Helping Hands is already a minuscule Stamina return, even for Stamknights. Battle Roar is powerful, but it's also the only thing that MagKnights have for sustain, and nerfing it is especially horrible when you consider that the class fights with attrition. How can you win through attrition if you always have worse sustain than your opponent?

Helping Hands will net you 2,000 Stam with ~40k Max Stam. That's hardly minuscule.

Battle Roar will return more Health and Stamina for mDKs now. The change is part of a overarching combat change to prevent resource return from stacking 1 attribute to high heaven.

Winning through attrition is the old DK way. With buffs to whip, Leap, Flame staff, the popularity of BSW, and a BoL-esqe health, mDKs are burstier than ever in PVP.

Umm no ...not 2000 it's more like 1000..... max stam has nothing to do with it now it's level based... you get a break even at around 18k stam.... Battle Roar returns less stam .... your major mending is gutted... cost of block is x2 ... 30% increase the cost vigor ..... 10% more for all stam abilities...

I agree that magicka DKs did not take it on the chin as much as stam did .... as a class stam DKs are hurting

He says already. Meaning currently. I'm clarifying how much Helping Hands will net you right now. No idea what it's going to be post-update.

Vigor, block and I think it's 5% more (?), those things affect all stam classes.

Buuuut I agree, the Igneous shield nerf is damn heavy... Although my sNB has no sympathy for your newfound lack of major mending.

-30% increase in vigor costs...
-Blocking has been changed with multiple hits it's 50% more...

Your stam Night blade will have no trouble with DKs my brothers stamblade destroyed me in a duel where I knew he was coming last night... before last night it was longer and I usually edged him out... now I'm destroyed rather quickly ...he is actually doing more damage now then before ...
-

Right, all Stam classes cast Vigor and Block. Vigor and 5% Ability cost increase are just a blanket Stam nerf.

I just covet buffs I don't have. Want all buffs.

I'm not sure why his NB would hit you harder. No damage buffs for NB that I saw.

Durham · April 2017

The_Outsider wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Helping Hands is already a minuscule Stamina return, even for Stamknights. Battle Roar is powerful, but it's also the only thing that MagKnights have for sustain, and nerfing it is especially horrible when you consider that the class fights with attrition. How can you win through attrition if you always have worse sustain than your opponent?

Helping Hands will net you 2,000 Stam with ~40k Max Stam. That's hardly minuscule.

Battle Roar will return more Health and Stamina for mDKs now. The change is part of a overarching combat change to prevent resource return from stacking 1 attribute to high heaven.

Winning through attrition is the old DK way. With buffs to whip, Leap, Flame staff, the popularity of BSW, and a BoL-esqe health, mDKs are burstier than ever in PVP.

Umm no ...not 2000 it's more like 1000..... max stam has nothing to do with it now it's level based... you get a break even at around 18k stam.... Battle Roar returns less stam .... your major mending is gutted... cost of block is x2 ... 30% increase the cost vigor ..... 10% more for all stam abilities...

I agree that magicka DKs did not take it on the chin as much as stam did .... as a class stam DKs are hurting

He says already. Meaning currently. I'm clarifying how much Helping Hands will net you right now. No idea what it's going to be post-update.

Vigor, block and I think it's 5% more (?), those things affect all stam classes.

Buuuut I agree, the Igneous shield nerf is damn heavy... Although my sNB has no sympathy for your newfound lack of major mending.

-30% increase in vigor costs...
-Blocking has been changed with multiple hits it's 50% more...

Your stam Night blade will have no trouble with DKs my brothers stamblade destroyed me in a duel where I knew he was coming last night... before last night it was longer and I usually edged him out... now I'm destroyed rather quickly ...he is actually doing more damage now then before ...
-

Right, all Stam classes cast Vigor and Block. Vigor and 5% Ability cost increase are just a blanket Stam nerf.

I just covet buffs I don't have. Want all buffs.
I'm not sure why his NB would hit you harder. No damage buffs for NB that I saw.

25 % direct damage buff champion tree... that's how...
I know all classes get this nerf ... I play all 4 stam classes ... I'm telling you the stam DK is by far the weakest at this point

kadar · April 2017

Durham wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Helping Hands is already a minuscule Stamina return, even for Stamknights. Battle Roar is powerful, but it's also the only thing that MagKnights have for sustain, and nerfing it is especially horrible when you consider that the class fights with attrition. How can you win through attrition if you always have worse sustain than your opponent?

Helping Hands will net you 2,000 Stam with ~40k Max Stam. That's hardly minuscule.

Battle Roar will return more Health and Stamina for mDKs now. The change is part of a overarching combat change to prevent resource return from stacking 1 attribute to high heaven.

Winning through attrition is the old DK way. With buffs to whip, Leap, Flame staff, the popularity of BSW, and a BoL-esqe health, mDKs are burstier than ever in PVP.

Umm no ...not 2000 it's more like 1000..... max stam has nothing to do with it now it's level based... you get a break even at around 18k stam.... Battle Roar returns less stam .... your major mending is gutted... cost of block is x2 ... 30% increase the cost vigor ..... 10% more for all stam abilities...

I agree that magicka DKs did not take it on the chin as much as stam did .... as a class stam DKs are hurting

He says already. Meaning currently. I'm clarifying how much Helping Hands will net you right now. No idea what it's going to be post-update.

Vigor, block and I think it's 5% more (?), those things affect all stam classes.

Buuuut I agree, the Igneous shield nerf is damn heavy... Although my sNB has no sympathy for your newfound lack of major mending.

-30% increase in vigor costs...
-Blocking has been changed with multiple hits it's 50% more...

Your stam Night blade will have no trouble with DKs my brothers stamblade destroyed me in a duel where I knew he was coming last night... before last night it was longer and I usually edged him out... now I'm destroyed rather quickly ...he is actually doing more damage now then before ...
-

Right, all Stam classes cast Vigor and Block. Vigor and 5% Ability cost increase are just a blanket Stam nerf.

I just covet buffs I don't have. Want all buffs.
I'm not sure why his NB would hit you harder. No damage buffs for NB that I saw.

25 % direct damage buff champion tree... that's how...
I know all classes get this nerf ... I play all 4 stam classes ... I'm telling you the stam DK is by far the weakest at this point

Ya possibly. There should be at least 1 more round of change revisions before the actually update hits so I guess we'll just have to see what they do. Sorcs didn't get any nerfs this update so I'm wondering which community will now be the loudest, DKs or Templars?

Integral1900 · April 2017

Rally, igneous weapons and dump cp in the new physical damage section, now buffed up just go and find baddies

Seriously, you'd think the sky was falling in, all my alts use heavy attacks and mostly two handed weapons, I use so little juice I took the points out of warlord months ago

Relax folks, every time they do big changes the panic merchants fire up that it's the end of the world, ain't happened yet baby

Durham · April 2017

Integral1900 wrote: »

Rally, igneous weapons and dump cp in the new physical damage section, now buffed up just go and find baddies

Seriously, you'd think the sky was falling in, all my alts use heavy attacks and mostly two handed weapons, I use so little juice I took the points out of warlord months ago

Relax folks, every time they do big changes the panic merchants fire up that it's the end of the world, ain't happened yet baby

The problem is that all stam classes can do this and do it better then the DK atm... The sky is not falling but there is earth ending meteor coming !!!!!! Lol

MaxwellC · April 2017

Integral1900 wrote: »

Rally, igneous weapons and dump cp in the new physical damage section, now buffed up just go and find baddies

Seriously, you'd think the sky was falling in, all my alts use heavy attacks and mostly two handed weapons, I use so little juice I took the points out of warlord months ago

Relax folks, every time they do big changes the panic merchants fire up that it's the end of the world, ain't happened yet baby

Yes rally throw down igneous shield but oh wait there's a DoT on me.. damn there goes my major mending again oh well let me re-apply it again.. oh wait the DoT is still on me...
Man my Stam is low my magicka is still pretty high let me dump my Magicka for the 5 percen....oh wait I get even less now around 800 or 900 well that's fine it just cost me 4.5k magicka.

Lol the sky isn't falling but someone sure as hell whipped out the dragon slaying sword and cut my damn arms off.

Durham · April 2017

The_Outsider wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Helping Hands is already a minuscule Stamina return, even for Stamknights. Battle Roar is powerful, but it's also the only thing that MagKnights have for sustain, and nerfing it is especially horrible when you consider that the class fights with attrition. How can you win through attrition if you always have worse sustain than your opponent?

Helping Hands will net you 2,000 Stam with ~40k Max Stam. That's hardly minuscule.

Battle Roar will return more Health and Stamina for mDKs now. The change is part of a overarching combat change to prevent resource return from stacking 1 attribute to high heaven.

Winning through attrition is the old DK way. With buffs to whip, Leap, Flame staff, the popularity of BSW, and a BoL-esqe health, mDKs are burstier than ever in PVP.

Umm no ...not 2000 it's more like 1000..... max stam has nothing to do with it now it's level based... you get a break even at around 18k stam.... Battle Roar returns less stam .... your major mending is gutted... cost of block is x2 ... 30% increase the cost vigor ..... 10% more for all stam abilities...

I agree that magicka DKs did not take it on the chin as much as stam did .... as a class stam DKs are hurting

He says already. Meaning currently. I'm clarifying how much Helping Hands will net you right now. No idea what it's going to be post-update.

Vigor, block and I think it's 5% more (?), those things affect all stam classes.

Buuuut I agree, the Igneous shield nerf is damn heavy... Although my sNB has no sympathy for your newfound lack of major mending.

-30% increase in vigor costs...
-Blocking has been changed with multiple hits it's 50% more...

Your stam Night blade will have no trouble with DKs my brothers stamblade destroyed me in a duel where I knew he was coming last night... before last night it was longer and I usually edged him out... now I'm destroyed rather quickly ...he is actually doing more damage now then before ...
-

Right, all Stam classes cast Vigor and Block. Vigor and 5% Ability cost increase are just a blanket Stam nerf.

I just covet buffs I don't have. Want all buffs.
I'm not sure why his NB would hit you harder. No damage buffs for NB that I saw.

25 % direct damage buff champion tree... that's how...
I know all classes get this nerf ... I play all 4 stam classes ... I'm telling you the stam DK is by far the weakest at this point

Ya possibly. There should be at least 1 more round of change revisions before the actually update hits so I guess we'll just have to see what they do. Sorcs didn't get any nerfs this update so I'm wondering which community will now be the loudest, DKs or Templars?

Yes I agree what I see is the inherent problem of trying to balance stam and magicka ... There was no reason to nerf the stam temp but by nerfing the magicka temp they nerfed the stam temp...
There was so no reason to nerf the DK the way that they did...
I don't like nerfs it's really bad for the game I prefer buffs to other things to offset ... this will end the game for many players and that's sad for those of us that really enjoy this game....

OrphanHelgen · April 2017

Sigma957 wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

When you have people like fengrush going to ZoS hq to help with balance this is want you get no nerf to Stam sorc but huge nerfs to any class they had issues fighting.

I'm very upset myself I'm just going to farm now. Already cancel my pre order like ZoS even cares but it's the best I can do.

This hurts Stam dk a lot but also mdk too is a huge nerf to dk in general.

You know these changes if they stay like this will be on the base game and not just those that get Morrowind

I already preordered morrowind. It still gives new sets, trial, enviroment, quests and warden, eventhough I will continue main dk. Im not sure how much more they earn by making warden OP compared to balanced, but I honestly dont think that much more, since most players in eso are casuals and not min maxers anyway.

Dominu728 · April 2017

Zarkeson wrote: »

Consider the Following:
Dragon Knights are more leaned as tanks. DPS should not be their go.

The ARE "unkillable" DKs out there. Twenty people hitting a DK that never runs out of stamina or magicka; infinite block. Health never goes down until there are at least thirty people.

A lot of DKs spam igneous shield infinitely, making them deathless.

Helping hands give DKs extra blocking fuel + ultimate attribute refund = infinite block, health.

I honestly have to agree with the Zen Team's nerfs to DK. Good job team.

Since most ppl already said wt I wanna say, I just have one thing to say: there has not been one DK that I have seen in non-cp or cp campaign that can stand in the middle of twenty players, not dying and killing. If u ever find one at all, I will be delitful to meet him, and to see the moment when ur argument stands.

BuggeX · April 2017

there is no such Thing as unkillable. ressource poision, fear, eos, purifining light and even the tankiest dk will run out of ress.

an unkillable jaggernaut to 20 pvp noobs mby

Durham · April 2017

Well a single duel wield user with poisons and all of you stam is gone...If your stam DK your cannon fodder ...

Areloth · April 2017

In my opinion the changes are good.
Not everything makes total sense, but at least it is important again to have ressouce management...come on...who crafted a recovery glyph the last months??
I invested 15min and have a working setup for my magicka PVP DK...loose a little bit spelldamage, but with the double cp damage bonus my damage will be higher.
en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=13645

And you won't have any stamina problems anymore. Magicka sustain is also fine with magicka furnace and engine guardian.

BuggeX · April 2017

Areloth wrote: »

In my opinion the changes are good.
Not everything makes total sense, but at least it is important again to have ressouce management...come on...who crafted a recovery glyph the last months??
I invested 15min and have a working setup for my magicka PVP DK...loose a little bit spelldamage, but with the double cp damage bonus my damage will be higher.
en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=13645

And you won't have any stamina problems anymore. Magicka sustain is also fine with magicka furnace and engine guardian.

there is no cp on battlegrounds dude

and srly why inner light over Flames of oblivion?

Durham · April 2017

Stam Stam Stam Stam .. Magicka was hit but not like the stam counter part ....
The synergy that stam had with class are virtually gone
Since both stam abilities do not take advantage of the new damage tree.

kadar · April 2017

Durham wrote: »

Well a single duel wield user with poisons and all of you stam is gone...If your stam DK your cannon fodder ...

At least poisons are a bit nerfed. I'd have preferred removal altogether, but that's something.

argouru · April 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoWtHqmITOM

magictucktuck · April 2017

Now maybe I'm wrong, I do play stam DK so the guy running around saying you don't play dk STFU can leave me alone.

But is anyone looking at these nerfs as a whole? everyone is getting nerfed resource wise. If only US dk's could get this on demand stam return we would be OP. (well warden will have a small amount now, but so do we still! just a little less to be in line with everyone else, but its still more than most others can say)

everyone is just QQ about their class not realizing that EVERYONE took a nerf so I would hope that this keeps us all on the same level and require us to manage our resources.

Durham · April 2017

Yes I'm looking as a whole I have PVP on the test in detail at this point ... I can tell you with 99% certainty that your stam DK is at the bottom of the barrel atm.... the class synergies with stam are to weak .. keep in mind we have only 2 stam abilities that are not taking advantage of the new damage tree... The proportion of the nerfs hit stam DKs in every single catigory....

Areloth · April 2017

BuggeX wrote: »

Areloth wrote: »

In my opinion the changes are good.
Not everything makes total sense, but at least it is important again to have ressouce management...come on...who crafted a recovery glyph the last months??
I invested 15min and have a working setup for my magicka PVP DK...loose a little bit spelldamage, but with the double cp damage bonus my damage will be higher.
en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=13645

And you won't have any stamina problems anymore. Magicka sustain is also fine with magicka furnace and engine guardian.

there is no cp on battlegrounds dude

and srly why inner light over Flames of oblivion?

What?? Battlegrounds without CP?? Oh wow...that is sh+t...didnt know that.

I prefer the extra Magicka, recovery, possibility to reveal hidden players and to have a ability for might of the guild on my front bar (for shooting star). Keeping flames of oblivion up takes also too much magicka. tried both and prefer inner light

Durham · April 2017

Yes watch out for poisons in there it's brutal lol

MaxwellC · April 2017

@magictucktuck

magictucktuck wrote: »

Now maybe I'm wrong, I do play stam DK so the guy running around saying you don't play dk STFU can leave me alone.

But is anyone looking at these nerfs as a whole? everyone is getting nerfed resource wise. If only US dk's could get this on demand stam return we would be OP. (well warden will have a small amount now, but so do we still! just a little less to be in line with everyone else, but its still more than most others can say)

everyone is just QQ about their class not realizing that EVERYONE took a nerf so I would hope that this keeps us all on the same level and require us to manage our resources.

You're not understanding this at all, I'm pretty pissed with these changes and yeah I looked at this as a whole.

How will I tank now that I do not have reduction in magicka/stamina (which wouldn't be a massive problem if helping hands wasn't touched but improved on) and helping hands provides far less than it did before. People try to justify the nerf to helping hands but fail to see that the only spam-able earthen heart skill is igneous shield, a 4.5k magicka costing skill. No tank is going to be able to dish out igneous shield consistently so they're resources won't dwindle. Maybe if you're a Mag DK but even with these changes tanking would be extremely hard even for vet hel ra.

Igneous shield losing major mending when the shield is gone is terrible. I mean seriously a DoT that is applied on you would take it away and the shield already provides dismal protection as a light attack in PvP would break it lol..

DKs shouldn't have been touch nor should any other class but you stated if we got our stam return that would be OP well what about sorcerers dark deal, the most OP recovery skill in the game has still been untouched yet there's nothing about that huh?

Battle roar yet again gimps stam DK in both PvP and Pve, we've lost a lot of stuff already including our only AoE skill that's class specific but now we get to lose even more next patch (if these changes follow through, which I can only hope it won't).

I feel that people who are saying these changes are good are just blindly putting faith in ZoS because they're developers but not all developers are right and that also goes for us players who provide feedback.

DK is far from OP, how in the world was it OP post patch I'd love to know especially in comparison to other classes. If you cite a band camp statement... may lord fengrush protect you.

Anhedonie · April 2017

LOL

Glad I'm reroling as the warden.

NightbladeMechanics · April 2017

Stam DK was the strongest class in the game by a long shot. mDk got buffs. I don't see the problem here.

MaxwellC · April 2017

We've got a

here boys^

Lyrander · April 2017

if you build a tank character and are not easily killed - its fine right? thats the goal.

As long as you have to sacrifice dps for it - its fine for me too.

You think they are TOO good? TOO unkillable? there are ways to reduce that a bit.
Its called balancing.

And then there are ways to *** up - its called ZOS patches.

I hope they change a lot of these "fixes" before it goes live.
Please play the PTS. Its for our own sake guys.