DK Changes... Seriously?

Dixa

Xvorg wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Helping Hands is already a minuscule Stamina return, even for Stamknights. Battle Roar is powerful, but it's also the only thing that MagKnights have for sustain, and nerfing it is especially horrible when you consider that the class fights with attrition. How can you win through attrition if you always have worse sustain than your opponent?

Helping Hands will net you 2,000 Stam with ~40k Max Stam. That's hardly minuscule.

Battle Roar will return more Health and Stamina for mDKs now. The change is part of a overarching combat change to prevent resource return from stacking 1 attribute to high heaven.

Winning through attrition is the old DK way. With buffs to whip, Leap, Flame staff, the popularity of BSW, and a BoL-esqe health, mDKs are burstier than ever in PVP.

Umm no ...not 2000 it's more like 1000..... max stam has nothing to do with it now it's level based... you get a break even at around 18k stam.... Battle Roar returns less stam .... your major mending is gutted... cost of block is x2 ... 30% increase the cost vigor ..... 10% more for all stam abilities...

I agree that magicka DKs did not take it on the chin as much as stam did .... as a class stam DKs are hurting

He says already. Meaning currently. I'm clarifying how much Helping Hands will net you right now. No idea what it's going to be post-update.

Vigor, block and I think it's 5% more (?), those things affect all stam classes.

Buuuut I agree, the Igneous shield nerf is damn heavy... Although my sNB has no sympathy for your newfound lack of major mending.

-30% increase in vigor costs...
-Blocking has been changed with multiple hits it's 50% more...

Your stam Night blade will have no trouble with DKs my brothers stamblade destroyed me in a duel where I knew he was coming last night... before last night it was longer and I usually edged him out... now I'm destroyed rather quickly ...he is actually doing more damage now then before ...
-

Right, all Stam classes cast Vigor and Block. Vigor and 5% Ability cost increase are just a blanket Stam nerf.

I just covet buffs I don't have. Want all buffs.
I'm not sure why his NB would hit you harder. No damage buffs for NB that I saw.

25 % direct damage buff champion tree... that's how...
I know all classes get this nerf ... I play all 4 stam classes ... I'm telling you the stam DK is by far the weakest at this point

Ya possibly. There should be at least 1 more round of change revisions before the actually update hits so I guess we'll just have to see what they do. Sorcs didn't get any nerfs this update so I'm wondering which community will now be the loudest, DKs or Templars?

Yes I agree what I see is the inherent problem of trying to balance stam and magicka ... There was no reason to nerf the stam temp but by nerfing the magicka temp they nerfed the stam temp...
There was so no reason to nerf the DK the way that they did...
I don't like nerfs it's really bad for the game I prefer buffs to other things to offset ... this will end the game for many players and that's sad for those of us that really enjoy this game....

There was no reason for 2 different resource pools... Period.

elder scrolls games have always had two resource pools. the "reason" existed before mmorpg's existed.

Durham

Oompuh wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

How is PVE DK TANK at a disadvantage to other classes next patch. As a khajiit, I have 25k stam and 18k magicka. Battle roar will give me more next patch. Helping hands will get reduced by a little bit. Major mending was cool, but not a requirement. All other changes are universal.. DK tanks are fine.

Your blocking cost are x2 ... your taking a 20% to 30% nerf from helping in stam in helping hand.... You will not see much difference in battle roar because your stam is at 25k... Yes DK PVE tank will still be good imo... best in slot yet to be determined ... You resources will take a hit that's for sure ...
The Stam DK was obliterated literally some of the stuff can't stand honestly ..

And so is every other classes block cost. What's gonna replace it? A damn Betty netch? Dropping block to dark deal? Repenting the 0 adds? The 300 stamina from leeching strikes?

Tanking as a whole is nerfed, DK tanking is still king by far

And for the record. Bosses single target attacks are still at a rate of .5 seconds. So yeah

What are you arguing about I said I think DKs are fine in Tanking PVE... Might even still be best in slot but I have not played the warden as a tank... You don't need to point out blocking is affected by everyone I know that... I simply pointing out that 20% stam return on your PVE tank will be felt after this patch... Yep bosses are .5 but as you know boss mobs are often not the only thing hitting you...

Sooo yeah

Tanking rakkhat - off tank has the hulk, no other mobs around.
Tanking warrior - off tank has destroyers and flame shapers, still no other mobs around.
Tanking Serpent - Manti is up, I'll taunt that.. and it's dead.
Tanking axes - well I don't usually need shards, but one won't hurt.. and there's my stamina

Soooooooo yeahhhhhhhhhhhh, sky is falling. Warden bis tank. DK is dead.

Ok congrats you can tank in PVE lol ... don't really care much about PVE tanking to be honest . I Spend 90% of my time in PVP small man .. but I really do not understand you being so sarcastic .. I think I agreed with you actually ...

But let me break it down why stam DK are so upset we get 3x less stamina in helping hands now vs. Your modest 20%
Battle Roar is around 40% nerf vs. Your breaking even
Major mending to us is like a spear for you .... we basically lost that ...

If your pve tank was nerfed to this degree the sky would look a little dark for the class you enjoy playing ...

Oompuh

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Oompuh
And we have #3? Jeez please just leave my thread alone, don't need people like yourself having a voice when it comes to spreading regurgitated propaganda through popular channels.

I mean if managing your gigantic stam pool is too hard for you, by all means quit playing dk. I will gladly fill any and all open tank positions in HoF on my horribly nerfed unplayable DK tank

Oompuh

Durham wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

How is PVE DK TANK at a disadvantage to other classes next patch. As a khajiit, I have 25k stam and 18k magicka. Battle roar will give me more next patch. Helping hands will get reduced by a little bit. Major mending was cool, but not a requirement. All other changes are universal.. DK tanks are fine.

Your blocking cost are x2 ... your taking a 20% to 30% nerf from helping in stam in helping hand.... You will not see much difference in battle roar because your stam is at 25k... Yes DK PVE tank will still be good imo... best in slot yet to be determined ... You resources will take a hit that's for sure ...
The Stam DK was obliterated literally some of the stuff can't stand honestly ..

And so is every other classes block cost. What's gonna replace it? A damn Betty netch? Dropping block to dark deal? Repenting the 0 adds? The 300 stamina from leeching strikes?

Tanking as a whole is nerfed, DK tanking is still king by far

And for the record. Bosses single target attacks are still at a rate of .5 seconds. So yeah

What are you arguing about I said I think DKs are fine in Tanking PVE... Might even still be best in slot but I have not played the warden as a tank... You don't need to point out blocking is affected by everyone I know that... I simply pointing out that 20% stam return on your PVE tank will be felt after this patch... Yep bosses are .5 but as you know boss mobs are often not the only thing hitting you...

Sooo yeah

Tanking rakkhat - off tank has the hulk, no other mobs around.
Tanking warrior - off tank has destroyers and flame shapers, still no other mobs around.
Tanking Serpent - Manti is up, I'll taunt that.. and it's dead.
Tanking axes - well I don't usually need shards, but one won't hurt.. and there's my stamina

Soooooooo yeahhhhhhhhhhhh, sky is falling. Warden bis tank. DK is dead.

Ok congrats you can tank in PVE lol ... don't really care much about PVE tanking to be honest . I Spend 90% of my time in PVP small man .. but I really do not understand you being so sarcastic .. I think I agreed with you actually ...

But let me break it down why stam DK are so upset we get 3x less stamina in helping hands now vs. Your modest 20%
Battle Roar is around 40% nerf vs. Your breaking even
Major mending to us is like a spear for you .... we basically lost that ...

If your pve tank was nerfed to this degree the sky would look a little dark for the class you enjoy playing ...

It was. It was called no stamina recovery while blocking. But we're still here, blocking, with no recovery..... blocking. Constantly blocking constantly.

IlCanis_LupuslI

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Mangeli200194
Lol before I jump off, it's nice to see another come into my thread. It's funny in your post you mention black rose, blood-spawn, and agility set... you know what they all have in common? THEY'RE NOT CLASS SPECIFIC. Isn't that incredible I mean who wouldn't thunk it?! I love how you throw around alternative facts stating that "40-50 percent of PvP are all DKs" (Paraphrased), as if that's some wide knowledge lol get out of my thread.

Nope they arent, funny thou that a vast majority wears it thou. And substain wise any heavy armor was stupidly overperforming on dks cause you can literally run around with not even thinking about substain and do fine.
Or how else would you explain the huge amount of dks beeing played in pvp???? And yeah 40 to 50 percent im bascically in pvp all the time!! For example on my Healer wearing 7 pc light armor i had a Magika Dk lava whip me non stop 15 min......
And certain things ARE CLASS SPECIFIC for example Blood spawn on Dragon knights and heavy armor!!!!

Durham

Lol yea the old blocking nerf in PvP was aimed at block casting in light armor in those days.. Stam DKs were roll Two hander/ Bow roll dodgers back then ..Today we mostly wear heavy s/b with two hander.. ...I'm on the test server now ... In PVP on test now you cant hold up block ... rapid strikes/ bitting jabs will cause you to bleed 50% more stam... I played the DK in PVP for 3 years now ... I'm telling you he is I the worst shape ever...... I can duel the same live set ups and compare current and future and it's dismal.. Currently a stam sorc that I almost always win against he destroyed me... even if I push my recovery to 1400 stam I cannot stop him .. His healing is stronger , his damage is stronger, his sustain is stronger ...

WillhelmBlack

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Oompuh
And we have #3? Jeez please just leave my thread alone, don't need people like yourself having a voice when it comes to spreading regurgitated propaganda through popular channels.

There's no trolls here. You're the quoting people and asking for replies.

BTW, I can't say much about the Morrowind beta but I just got through the first 10minutes of the new trial solo on a mag DK. In crap gear, specced for damage, absolutely no stamina issues whatsoever. Might be time to start speccing DK tanks with a bit more fire (magic) power.

Yes that's right, you might have to change your build and switch your attributes about. Or just quit the game, up to you.

Vapirko

Not to mention the constitution passive just got burned to the ground. Stam DKs are dead this patch unless some serious changes are made in PTS. Ill cross my fingers but wont hold my breath. I said this before, most disagreed, but I really think Wardens are meant to take over for DKs.

Durham

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Oompuh
And we have #3? Jeez please just leave my thread alone, don't need people like yourself having a voice when it comes to spreading regurgitated propaganda through popular channels.

There's no trolls here. You're the quoting people and asking for replies.

BTW, I can't say much about the Morrowind beta but I just got through the first 10minutes of the new trial solo on a mag DK. In crap gear, specced for damage, absolutely no stamina issues whatsoever. Might be time to start speccing DK tanks with a bit more fire (magic) power.

Yes that's right, you might have to change your build and switch your attributes about. Or just quit the game, up to you.

Again your Magicka plus PVE... You are not seeing poisons and rapid strikes/ biting jabs drain you to nothing in a matter of secounds ....Also most of the DK nerf is stamina stamina stamina stamina based DKs ...Magicka honestly you did not see much of any stamina nerf...
I prefer stam abilities we are saying that Stam DKs were extremely disproportionately hit by this.....

MaxwellC

@WillhelmBlack
Yeah there are trolls here sorry if that's difficult for you to comprehend but I'm still waiting for you to post a relevant video that shows the DK over performing (Not the armor or the CP) but that's ok you probably can't find one. If I ask for replies and they spam one thing after I reply then yeah they're trolling me thread get over it.

Grats you got through (supposedly) on a Mag DK in sequenced battle with crap gear but have not tested it like I did with bosses lol when my mate came over him and his friends took me through WGT and boy that was fun running out of stamina while chugging potions as my resource pool depended on it. The stam return on igneous shield ranged around 800-900 if I recall correctly and battle roar was giving me back like I think 4 stamina per 250 ultimate lol.

MaxwellC

No one can rightfully justify helping hands, igneous shield, and battle roar nerf without bring someones armor or CP into the equation. People talk about someone with 50k stamina and as I pointed out yeah you can slam igneous shield with 50k stamina (which means your resource pool is definitely not higher than 10k at that rate) but you only get 5% of that which is 2.5k on live. With PTS you get around 800 or 900 lol and that's for using a spam-able skill .

Major mending only being applied to the shield being up is also not cool because the shield is health based and in PvP yet again it would take a light attack, people cite well I can use it then use another ability right away to get the affects. The problem with that statement is there was no account for DoTs being placed and in combat, if there is any of the two then you'd never get the effect of major mending. In PvE when I heal on my Mag DK because he's pro, now one monster hits me or if I'm playing something like CoA I can't take any damage because when I do my shield pops unless I wanna gimp myself in defense and put CP into bastion.

No one can justify battle roar as well because it was fine where it was at and its only situational. This was what made DKs unique but instead it's been gimped to provide Mag DKs a bit more sustain while stealing it entirely for those who play PvP as a stam DK or those who invest in high stam pools when tanking content like vAA/v Hel ra (In my groups we only use one tank because that's all that's needed at-least up until maw, I've only tanked vet trials with 1 tank and that's usually me in my trial guild or another tank).

WillhelmBlack

Durham wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Oompuh
And we have #3? Jeez please just leave my thread alone, don't need people like yourself having a voice when it comes to spreading regurgitated propaganda through popular channels.

There's no trolls here. You're the quoting people and asking for replies.

BTW, I can't say much about the Morrowind beta but I just got through the first 10minutes of the new trial solo on a mag DK. In crap gear, specced for damage, absolutely no stamina issues whatsoever. Might be time to start speccing DK tanks with a bit more fire (magic) power.

Yes that's right, you might have to change your build and switch your attributes about. Or just quit the game, up to you.

Again your Magicka plus PVE... You are not seeing poisons and rapid strikes/ biting jabs drain you to nothing in a matter of secounds ....Also most of the DK nerf is stamina stamina stamina stamina based DKs ...Magicka honestly you did not see much of any stamina nerf...
I prefer stam abilities we are saying that Stam DKs were extremely disproportionately hit by this.....

We were also talking about PvE Tanking as well.

Back in the old days when PvP was awesome, let's just forget about mag DKs for a minute they were crazy OP back then not too dissimilar to current Stam DK but they have obviously less AoE. Anyway, back on point, back to Stam DK. They were actually really good before Battle Roar scaled from your highest stat. That's what it's going back to, a flat amount. We had some awesome Stam DK's here on the EU server as well as over the pond like Lefty Lucy. They were ulti regen beasts also using Heroic slash and Bloodspawn to pump out Leap combo's, yes they had dynamic ulti regen but now we have better ult regen sets to compensate for that.

I'm not going to disagree with you saying they were disproportionately nerfed compared to the rest of the classes because you took the largest portion of nerf cake but you won't be the worst to suffer in this patch and in a lot of PvP'rs opinions Stam DK needed the biggest nerf. I think the strongest will be Mag Sorc and the weakest will be Stamplar.

@MaxwellC

There are videos scattered all over Youtube pal, just go look yourself. Saying it's just the sets that make them OP is ridiculous, they exist for everyone to use. I can list 10 sets then that make Stam DK OP! 10! Nerf 10 sets then or the class that's performing way too well with them?

MaxwellC

@WillhelmBlack
Most PvPers who state that Stam DK needs a nerf either regurgitate B.S they hear like the good ol' "There was this duel and a stam DK was first place therefore your opinions are incorrect" like what was that (More band camp statements) or was wailing on a full on PvP tank and said "THATS IT THIS CLASS NEEDS A NERFS CAN NO KILL (yes I worded it improperly for affect)? You can't sit here and justify changes based on min max and yeah if sets are making a class perform even better then expected then NERF THE SET. List the 10 and nerf it, any of those 10 sets do not say "Make battle roar double the resource given when an ultimate is used" NONE of those sets state a DKs passive or skill being increased at all and that's a fact.

Even Deltia over here is going off on these changes because even he says it's all UNJUSTIFIED! Also Stam DK was never the strongest people cited the HA style but have never fought a Stam Sorc in HA which is near un-kill-able and I can prove that with a video showing me trying to kill one but all he did was dark deal as I kept bashing him running out of stamina and then dying.

Vapirko

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Oompuh
And we have #3? Jeez please just leave my thread alone, don't need people like yourself having a voice when it comes to spreading regurgitated propaganda through popular channels.

There's no trolls here. You're the quoting people and asking for replies.

BTW, I can't say much about the Morrowind beta but I just got through the first 10minutes of the new trial solo on a mag DK. In crap gear, specced for damage, absolutely no stamina issues whatsoever. Might be time to start speccing DK tanks with a bit more fire (magic) power.

Yes that's right, you might have to change your build and switch your attributes about. Or just quit the game, up to you.

Again your Magicka plus PVE... You are not seeing poisons and rapid strikes/ biting jabs drain you to nothing in a matter of secounds ....Also most of the DK nerf is stamina stamina stamina stamina based DKs ...Magicka honestly you did not see much of any stamina nerf...
I prefer stam abilities we are saying that Stam DKs were extremely disproportionately hit by this.....

We were also talking about PvE Tanking as well.

Back in the old days when PvP was awesome, let's just forget about mag DKs for a minute they were crazy OP back then not too dissimilar to current Stam DK but they have obviously less AoE. Anyway, back on point, back to Stam DK. They were actually really good before Battle Roar scaled from your highest stat. That's what it's going back to, a flat amount. We had some awesome Stam DK's here on the EU server as well as over the pond like Lefty Lucy. They were ulti regen beasts also using Heroic slash and Bloodspawn to pump out Leap combo's, yes they had dynamic ulti regen but now we have better ult regen sets to compensate for that.

I'm not going to disagree with you saying they were disproportionately nerfed compared to the rest of the classes because you took the largest portion of nerf cake but you won't be the worst to suffer in this patch and in a lot of PvP'rs opinions Stam DK needed the biggest nerf. I think the strongest will be Mag Sorc and the weakest will be Stamplar.

@MaxwellC

There are videos scattered all over Youtube pal, just go look yourself. Saying it's just the sets that make them OP is ridiculous, they exist for everyone to use. I can list 10 sets then that make Stam DK OP! 10! Nerf 10 sets then or the class that's performing way too well with them?

Skilled players is not the same as them being OP. DKs are not OP. CP points made stam builds OP. Sets are not the issue either. Stam DKs are fine in Azuras, it's only when adding CP that's it becomes an issue. But ZOS will not change their believed cp. what's happening this patch is that the core of what DKs are is getting nerfed. Our passives that made us unique. That's bs.

MaxwellC

@Vapirko ^couldn't have said it any better, although I do wanna add armor sets being an issue too.

Vapirko

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Vapirko ^couldn't have said it any better, although I do wanna add armor sets being an issue too.

Sure some are an issue, not so much for Stam DKs I don't think though. I guess bone pirates maybe. Draugr is only OP if you add cp to it.

MaxwellC

@Vapirko
Yeah those are the only two sets that came to mind but then again it doesn't just make one class better it makes each class since there's no individual factor that makes it better then the next e.g. increasing help hands return by like 20% lol.

Durham

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Oompuh
And we have #3? Jeez please just leave my thread alone, don't need people like yourself having a voice when it comes to spreading regurgitated propaganda through popular channels.

There's no trolls here. You're the quoting people and asking for replies.

BTW, I can't say much about the Morrowind beta but I just got through the first 10minutes of the new trial solo on a mag DK. In crap gear, specced for damage, absolutely no stamina issues whatsoever. Might be time to start speccing DK tanks with a bit more fire (magic) power.

Yes that's right, you might have to change your build and switch your attributes about. Or just quit the game, up to you.

Again your Magicka plus PVE... You are not seeing poisons and rapid strikes/ biting jabs drain you to nothing in a matter of secounds ....Also most of the DK nerf is stamina stamina stamina stamina based DKs ...Magicka honestly you did not see much of any stamina nerf...
I prefer stam abilities we are saying that Stam DKs were extremely disproportionately hit by this.....

We were also talking about PvE Tanking as well.

Back in the old days when PvP was awesome, let's just forget about mag DKs for a minute they were crazy OP back then not too dissimilar to current Stam DK but they have obviously less AoE. Anyway, back on point, back to Stam DK. They were actually really good before Battle Roar scaled from your highest stat. That's what it's going back to, a flat amount. We had some awesome Stam DK's here on the EU server as well as over the pond like Lefty Lucy. They were ulti regen beasts also using Heroic slash and Bloodspawn to pump out Leap combo's, yes they had dynamic ulti regen but now we have better ult regen sets to compensate for that.

I'm not going to disagree with you saying they were disproportionately nerfed compared to the rest of the classes because you took the largest portion of nerf cake but you won't be the worst to suffer in this patch and in a lot of PvP'rs opinions Stam DK needed the biggest nerf. I think the strongest will be Mag Sorc and the weakest will be Stamplar.

@MaxwellC

There are videos scattered all over Youtube pal, just go look yourself. Saying it's just the sets that make them OP is ridiculous, they exist for everyone to use. I can list 10 sets then that make Stam DK OP! 10! Nerf 10 sets then or the class that's performing way too well with them?

Ok only talking about Stam DK here .. Stam Dk was a strong class not going to deny that but it was deeply affected by the last patch ..Since the last patch I have had no issue taking out 90% of stam dks...
. Right now on the test I have lost 66% of my helping hands passive .. 40% on battle rush .. Shields is useless it's so small it drops on a light attack major mending gone... -25% healing .. keep in mind that right now with 42% magicka return nerf on heavy utilizing you helping hands passive is also cut by 1/3 ... we have no passive on stam regen... I would rather see helping hands do 20% stam regen passive that lasts 10 sec like the warden...
- I dueled most classes yesterday using various builds and options ... classes that today I can defeat with my brother playing them not every time but consistantly .... on test he beats me on everyone one of them everytime.... Stamplar destroyed me honestly bitting jabs actually has an indirect buff against shields....

STAMPLARS are not in a worse place then stam DKs major was reduced to minor.... still have a sick cheap purge... 10% passive for stam regen... I'm not saying they were not hit hard ... I'm not saying they deserved it they surely did not....

aeowulf

Durham wrote: »

Right now on the test I have lost 66% of my helping hands passive .. 40% on battle rush ..

i'll trade you siphoning strikes for the remains of these two skills. This skill is now going to cost you more stamina/magicka than you are likely to see back from it.

Durham

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Oompuh
And we have #3? Jeez please just leave my thread alone, don't need people like yourself having a voice when it comes to spreading regurgitated propaganda through popular channels.

There's no trolls here. You're the quoting people and asking for replies.

BTW, I can't say much about the Morrowind beta but I just got through the first 10minutes of the new trial solo on a mag DK. In crap gear, specced for damage, absolutely no stamina issues whatsoever. Might be time to start speccing DK tanks with a bit more fire (magic) power.

Yes that's right, you might have to change your build and switch your attributes about. Or just quit the game, up to you.

Again your Magicka plus PVE... You are not seeing poisons and rapid strikes/ biting jabs drain you to nothing in a matter of secounds ....Also most of the DK nerf is stamina stamina stamina stamina based DKs ...Magicka honestly you did not see much of any stamina nerf...
I prefer stam abilities we are saying that Stam DKs were extremely disproportionately hit by this.....

We were also talking about PvE Tanking as well.

Back in the old days when PvP was awesome, let's just forget about mag DKs for a minute they were crazy OP back then not too dissimilar to current Stam DK but they have obviously less AoE. Anyway, back on point, back to Stam DK. They were actually really good before Battle Roar scaled from your highest stat. That's what it's going back to, a flat amount. We had some awesome Stam DK's here on the EU server as well as over the pond like Lefty Lucy. They were ulti regen beasts also using Heroic slash and Bloodspawn to pump out Leap combo's, yes they had dynamic ulti regen but now we have better ult regen sets to compensate for that.

I'm not going to disagree with you saying they were disproportionately nerfed compared to the rest of the classes because you took the largest portion of nerf cake but you won't be the worst to suffer in this patch and in a lot of PvP'rs opinions Stam DK needed the biggest nerf. I think the strongest will be Mag Sorc and the weakest will be Stamplar.

@MaxwellC

There are videos scattered all over Youtube pal, just go look yourself. Saying it's just the sets that make them OP is ridiculous, they exist for everyone to use. I can list 10 sets then that make Stam DK OP! 10! Nerf 10 sets then or the class that's performing way too well with them?

Most of those videos that you see about Stam DKs are pre last patch...
Nerf to vitality potions were huge 47 secs to +30% that stacked with +25% major mending ...
Also the 50% nerf to heavy attack stam return...
15% nerf to black rose return

Many of your streamer that are dedicated to PVP mostly small man will tell you this was way over the top.. Fengrush just started laughing when he saw it...

Currently there are two types of PVP stam DKs they are easy to tell apart if you see a 24 to 27k health DK watch out he can kill you pretty quick and have good defense... but he cannot perma block against numbers that you see in some videoes... If you see a DK over 32k Health his damage is down and burst is down he can still kill u but it should be much longer this bad in PvP time is sop important... If you see a DK over 35 he is not much of a threat on the damage end of the spectrum only good for CC and rebuffs honestly do not like this build in small man play....

There are a few Two hander/ Bow DKs but honest if I run this I will go stamplar ...synergizes better atm...

I very rarely come on the boards and talk about patches but for the stam DK it was brutal ....In it's current form it will disappear from PVP and 3 months from now ZoS will make changes to buff it back up ...

Woeler

I have already done some trial tanking on the PTS and it is just a matter of adapting. It's nothing THAT bad. If these changes mean you cannot tank on a DK anymore then it's you, not the class.

Your green CP have no real place besides Shadowward now anyways, and with a full shadowward and full sturdy you can reach a block cost of 88 stamina per hit. That amount is a total joke and allows you to still very easily permablock any fight in the game. Easily. I'm not saying that is the way to go, but it is the minimum cost reachable.

Yes, DK tanks got nerfed, so did almost everybody else. If you want to make a difference in the PVE playfield, go support your templar healers in the templar topics. They got hit unreasonably hard just to make the warden look good.

WillhelmBlack

Durham wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Oompuh
And we have #3? Jeez please just leave my thread alone, don't need people like yourself having a voice when it comes to spreading regurgitated propaganda through popular channels.

There's no trolls here. You're the quoting people and asking for replies.

BTW, I can't say much about the Morrowind beta but I just got through the first 10minutes of the new trial solo on a mag DK. In crap gear, specced for damage, absolutely no stamina issues whatsoever. Might be time to start speccing DK tanks with a bit more fire (magic) power.

Yes that's right, you might have to change your build and switch your attributes about. Or just quit the game, up to you.

Again your Magicka plus PVE... You are not seeing poisons and rapid strikes/ biting jabs drain you to nothing in a matter of secounds ....Also most of the DK nerf is stamina stamina stamina stamina based DKs ...Magicka honestly you did not see much of any stamina nerf...
I prefer stam abilities we are saying that Stam DKs were extremely disproportionately hit by this.....

We were also talking about PvE Tanking as well.

Back in the old days when PvP was awesome, let's just forget about mag DKs for a minute they were crazy OP back then not too dissimilar to current Stam DK but they have obviously less AoE. Anyway, back on point, back to Stam DK. They were actually really good before Battle Roar scaled from your highest stat. That's what it's going back to, a flat amount. We had some awesome Stam DK's here on the EU server as well as over the pond like Lefty Lucy. They were ulti regen beasts also using Heroic slash and Bloodspawn to pump out Leap combo's, yes they had dynamic ulti regen but now we have better ult regen sets to compensate for that.

I'm not going to disagree with you saying they were disproportionately nerfed compared to the rest of the classes because you took the largest portion of nerf cake but you won't be the worst to suffer in this patch and in a lot of PvP'rs opinions Stam DK needed the biggest nerf. I think the strongest will be Mag Sorc and the weakest will be Stamplar.

@MaxwellC

There are videos scattered all over Youtube pal, just go look yourself. Saying it's just the sets that make them OP is ridiculous, they exist for everyone to use. I can list 10 sets then that make Stam DK OP! 10! Nerf 10 sets then or the class that's performing way too well with them?

Ok only talking about Stam DK here .. Stam Dk was a strong class not going to deny that but it was deeply affected by the last patch ..Since the last patch I have had no issue taking out 90% of stam dks...
. Right now on the test I have lost 66% of my helping hands passive .. 40% on battle rush .. Shields is useless it's so small it drops on a light attack major mending gone... -25% healing .. keep in mind that right now with 42% magicka return nerf on heavy utilizing you helping hands passive is also cut by 1/3 ... we have no passive on stam regen... I would rather see helping hands do 20% stam regen passive that lasts 10 sec like the warden...
- I dueled most classes yesterday using various builds and options ... classes that today I can defeat with my brother playing them not every time but consistantly .... on test he beats me on everyone one of them everytime.... Stamplar destroyed me honestly bitting jabs actually has an indirect buff against shields....

STAMPLARS are not in a worse place then stam DKs major was reduced to minor.... still have a sick cheap purge... 10% passive for stam regen... I'm not saying they were not hit hard ... I'm not saying they deserved it they surely did not....

The class will definitely need re-buffing, just not the scaled Battle Roar passive or the Major Mending lasting six seconds, so glad to see Templar lose that buff too, it just destroys the fun of PvP. Stack it with Vitality and then it's just a sick joke.

Would like to see some of DK's useless morphs be changed to compliment Stam DK. Being a tanky class something like a long immovable duration added to an armour buff seems appropriate, maybe another block cost reduction passive would balance the changes to block cost, though I had no Stam problems in PTS Tanking.

Durham

Umm don't PVE unless I'm getting armor... so not going to disagree with you there ... most of us are talking about PVP stam DKs... not PVE tanks ....

In PVE it's not as bad for the DK that has been stated ... yes I think they can work around it...

MaxwellC

@Woeler
None of these changes were justified for this class with this patch, in fact none of the changes to all classes (there core class not armor,etc) were needed. If you want to talk about regeneration then look to sorcerer still with dark deal. Can you say the same when it comes to PvPing, i doubt it extremely. I find that I'll most likely be going back to marksman and getting rid of igneous shield entirely if these changes go through as there's no point in having something inconsistent on your bar.

Addition: These changes shouldn't have occurred (reiterating here) but if they wanted to make any changes then they should have looked into armor and it's passives instead of taking each class and smacking them down a peg more on some.

NBrookus

MaxwellC wrote: »

NNo one can justify battle roar as well because it was fine where it was at and its only situational. This was what made DKs unique but instead it's been gimped to provide Mag DKs a bit more sustain...

LOL WUT?!

My magicka DKs almost never ran out of stam with an investment of 16k+ in stam. It was always the magicka pool that was so expensive and so drained from out insanely high skill costs. The Battle Roar nerf hits magicka DKs' primary stat pool just as hard as stam, but our skill costs are higher to begin with. And all those S&B DKs couldn't heavy attack to regen magicka.

If the hypothetical goal was to give mag DKs more sustain, it failed miserably. Our sustain is much worse.

MaxwellC

@NBrookus
It was referring to the stamina you'd get back. Your min stat (stamina) will never be higher than the targeted threshold thus you'd get more when it comes to CC breaking. I believe I stated over-all these changes destroy sustain for DK in general as a whole if not I'll fix that because that's a fact.
I'm tired of having to adapt to each change that just screws my class over while others aren't as screwed except for templars but we're further down the totem pole then they are.

Oompuh

DKS are worrying about 1vXing in the future, but as you can see, Maxwell is doing it in the forums just fine. No need to worry

NBrookus

MaxwellC wrote: »

It was referring to the stamina you'd get back. Your min stat (stamina) will never be higher than the targeted threshold thus you'd get more when it comes to CC breaking. I believe I stated over-all these changes destroy sustain for DK in general as a whole if not I'll fix that because that's a fact.
I'm tired of having to adapt to each change that just screws my class over while others aren't as screwed except for templars but we're further down the totem pole then they are.

I knew what you meant, but mag DK didn't need more stam sustain. Granted we had to invest more in stam than stam DKs had to invest in magicka, but it was manageable. What we needed more mag sustain. We got less of it. If mDK had stayed in the same place we would have been okay with the other classes getting their sustain nerfed.

Adapting to change is one thing. Massive changes every 3 months is another. It's like riding a drunken camel.

MaxwellC

@NBrookus Now that's hard to agree with when it comes to regeneration. We can no longer sustain even with the current PTS (PvP perspective) changes with helping hands and even on live from a PvP stand point it's still dismal. I agree that we as a DK class have the most sustain issues and that's primarily due to the outdated passives that have yet to be updated and now with less regeneration it's going to be tough to even play PvP and don't get me started with Non CP because It's brutal AF.

Valencer

It's not so bad.

PvE wise DK tanks can manage.
PvP wise I just want to log off instantly whenever I go into Cyrodiil and experience the tank zerg meta in all its' glory. Ill take ANYTHING over the Homestead PvP meta.

So for all I care, bring on the new update and let's hope Cyrodiil will be FUN again