Akimbro wrote: »

SilentFox22 wrote: »

NORD (suggested passives)

• Inc dmg with 2H
• Dmg mit - bump up to 10%
• Inc max Sta or Sta regen or decrease cost of Sta abilities by x
• Inc max Hp

I don't think you understand what's going on with passives. Every race has a "flavour" or "free" passive like the increased experience gained from X. The ones like fall damage etc. that you and others have been deeming "useless" is supposed to be just that. There's no benefit for them in combat, just for lore. Idk why you think you can get 4 passives for combat, where every race has 3 passives for combat.

Junkogen wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

As you are probably well aware, the Argonian healer community is quite happy with you today ZOS. Thanks.

Unfortunately the Argonian tank community are far from happy.

The um, Argonian NB community are on the outraged side as well. (and for good reason)

If you are not an Argonian healer come this patch you will get a HUGE assed nerf.

I'll be honest, I kind of gave up caring. I like my character's concept as a Shadowscale, and changing race would just feel so wrong. My intent is to just make the best shadowscale that I can.

Yeah, I don't know why ZOS heavily promotes Shadowscales with DLC and storylines, but then doesn't allow us to actually play one through character design. They keep changing the Argonian passives to be anything but suited for a Shadowscale playstyle. The closest they ever were was at launch. Then they changed all the game systems which then made them tanks and now healers. It's just irritating.

Vythri wrote: »

Bosmer's racial passive is a joke. Who cares about fall damage? Why not give Bosmer a bonus to Bow damage? You know, since there's a buff to literally every other form of weapon damage in some racial passives EXCEPT RANGED PHYSICAL.

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Actually it looks like the races are supposed to be forced in an exact role.
Play how you want, but be ready for the punishment if you play wrong.
And even then I have no plan where orc or bosmer fits

The skills also get a mark for dps/tank/heal.
Then people know not to use healing ward as dd for example...

The most of you define "balance of the classes" different how zos does
ZOS gives kahjiit a buff and bosmer nothing.
You recommend to give bosmer a buff and kahjiit nothing.

I mean if we only look at these opinions, something is wrong there.

Another good example was the stam sorc thread that leads to the "buff" to surge.

Argonians were switched from tank to healer,
but why? That has nothing to do with balance.

The change to races is just a buff for some playstyles. Stam DKs now get an additional 6% stam bonus for example.

Are we really supposed to talk about "how good this percentual number looks on this race" or what?

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

I'm not outraged.
I expect some adaptation will be necessary in the future, but I expect I'll be able to remain viable on all three Argonian Nightblades I play; tank, dps, and healer.

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

As you are probably well aware, the Argonian healer community is quite happy with you today ZOS. Thanks.

Unfortunately the Argonian tank community are far from happy.

The um, Argonian NB community are on the outraged side as well. (and for good reason)

If you are not an Argonian healer come this patch you will get a HUGE assed nerf.

@PlagueMonk do you mean the Argonian stamblade community? It seems to me the max magicka is a straight buff to mageblades and the healing received / done change seems like a wash for mageblades unless they are tanking. Admittedly my Argonian mageblade is still in level 3 mule mode so I may be missing something.

Does the bonus to healing include healing done upon yourself?
Because if so, I'm pretty sure my Sap tank will be fine.

SilentFox22 wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

SilentFox22 wrote: »

NORD (suggested passives)

• Inc dmg with 2H
• Dmg mit - bump up to 10%
• Inc max Sta or Sta regen or decrease cost of Sta abilities by x
• Inc max Hp

I don't think you understand what's going on with passives. Every race has a "flavour" or "free" passive like the increased experience gained from X. The ones like fall damage etc. that you and others have been deeming "useless" is supposed to be just that. There's no benefit for them in combat, just for lore. Idk why you think you can get 4 passives for combat, where every race has 3 passives for combat.

Thank you for being constructive with your criticism. : )

Ideally, I'd really like to see all passives become useless flavor traits so it won't matter what race you choose. I'd also like to see all class abilities removed and mainstreamed for any class/race combination. Would keeping classes in place with appropriate themed passives, but removing class abilities be as difficult as removing classes altogether? If class abilities were more mainstreamed, would that not itself minimize the need for so much class balancing for the developer? I feel like popular builds would create counter-popular builds would create counter builds to that and so on more naturally - with players themselves maintaining a balance, leaving ZoS to focus more on bug fixes, new content and such. (A gal can dream)

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

SilentFox22 wrote: »

NORD (suggested passives)

• Inc dmg with 2H
• Dmg mit - bump up to 10%
• Inc max Sta or Sta regen or decrease cost of Sta abilities by x
• Inc max Hp

I don't think you understand what's going on with passives. Every race has a "flavour" or "free" passive like the increased experience gained from X. The ones like fall damage etc. that you and others have been deeming "useless" is supposed to be just that. There's no benefit for them in combat, just for lore. Idk why you think you can get 4 passives for combat, where every race has 3 passives for combat.

I think the Orc passive needs work, simply because it has an endgame where it is no longer useful. They could make it so that you learn traits a little faster, as well as get a 5% better chance to get good loot breaking materials down or upgrading them. Something like that. The Breton passive would probably be better if purchasing rewards with AP were 1% cheaper, rather than earning 1% more which could effect leaderboards unfairly. The Bosmer passive for acrobatics is cool, but it makes me realize how much I wish an Athletics, Acrobatics, Unarmored, and Unarmed skill line were available.

Tevalaur wrote: »

At present the health recovery boost of up to 30% applies to Khajiit (AD), Orc (DC), & Nord (EP). Although Orc & Nord health recovery rates will drop to 20%, after this "balance" there will be no race within AD that will have improved health recovery passives. Seems less like "balance" and more like you're trying to kill off AD players.

Also, this makes Bosmer & Khajiit too similar. Why would anyone ever choose a Bosmer over a Khajiit once the Khajiit gets more maximum stamina & stamina recovery than a Bosmer?

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Greetings @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and @Wrobel ,

First and foremost, thank you for taking a look at this feedback. I hope to have a short and simple discussion with you as to why Orcs should further change so that they don't end up as just a shadow of the other classes. The reason that you should take my suggestions into account is because I have played as an Orc, almost exclusively, since I started playing during early patch 1.3.

I do want to give some credit to the designer of the Orc passives because it is unique in a sense. I see many Orc players who want to feel like a rough and tumble individual who can take a beating and dish out a beating too. That being said I will be focusing on the drawbacks of the current Orc, the drawbacks of the future Orc, and how Orc can be improved to be more in line with the other strong races.

A. Current

The current issue with the Orc is that, though unique in it's abilities to run fast and deal extra damage with physical attacks, those passive effects are extremely limited.

That extra speed almost doesn't matter in PVE and even in PVP, trying to catch someone with that extra running speed can almost feel like a trap because running to catch someone can leave the Orc who is in pursuit with no resources left to deal damage.

The extra damage done with physical attacks is also SEVERELY limited. Because of the many criteria that the type of physical attack must fall under in order to get the passive Orc buff it becomes true that only a small minority of stamina cost abilities are buffed by the Orc: attacks must be 5 meters or less, single target, and those limitations are very restricting. Comparing this passive to the Khajiit passive of increased critical damage and we will see how Khajiit gets a great amount of extra damage via it's bow attacks, dots, AOE attacks, single target attacks that are more than 5 meters in rang, and even the so-called Orc specialty of single target attacks that are less than 5 meters in range,

If we add the health regen passive that Orcs have on top of this, then we still basically don't have very much. The health regen Orc passive has always been only a small step above swimming speed and that is especially so today when players are trying to enjoy being a vampire. That means that current and future metas directly contradict any beneficial aspect that Orcs may receive from having extra health regeneration.

B. Future Issue

In the future, the major change for Orcs will be to gain healing received. If we keep in mind how Orcs currently rank, then we will understand how Orcs will still not be that special, power level wise, in the future. Giving Orcs a passive effect of healing received, a passive that was bad enough to be taken away from the Argonian race this very same update, does not only make Orcs no more desirable, but no more powerful in the future.

I'd like to add to the above that this healing received, similar to the run speed dilemma and health regen issues, just isn't a useful stat. The game has evolved to the point where healing received is boring and not useful. During 1.3 or against 1.5 Mantikora, I would have been thrilled to have extra healing received on the burn phases that required big healing ticks, but because of changes to the Champion Point system with regards to damage mitigation, it is likely that anything which kills a PVE player was a one shot. Healing received just doesn't work in this and the future meta that we will have.

Additionally, but on a smaller note, the increased inspiration amount is not exciting. It makes sense as to why Orcs gain crafting inspiration, but compared to other races, extra inspiration gained is not inspiring at all. The reason for this notion is because some passives, such as increased gold gain or increased chance to pickpocket will always be useful, but increased inspiration gain is not useful for anyone that completes their crafting levels.

C. My Proposed Solution

I have thought hard and long about these solutions. I have played as an Orc tank who can PVP as a tanky DPS for years. I talk to the players who have rolled Orc just for fun and even tried to make an Orc only guild at one point. I really want this race to be better for, lack of better phrase, the long term health of the game.

I also look to other common themes in the Elder Scrolls to draw inspiration as to what an Orc is and what feels cool. It is safe to say that I have thought quite a bit about the Orc passives and how to make them better - I even tried to have this conversation with @ZOS_GinaBruno when Imperial City was due for release.

1. First Bad Issue

I understand why Orcs have extra damage done and running speed. Orcs are into athletics and, like I alluded to earlier, can hold their own in a bar fight. That being said, it isn't very fair for Orcs if their passives can't work most of the time just like how the Khajiit racial passive benefits Khajiits no matter what type of attack that they are trying to dish out damage with.

2. Second Bad Issue

I understand why Orcs have health recovery and healing received. Orcs can take a beating, get back up, take another beating, and get back up again. It just isn't very fair for Orcs that they get these passives when the Imperial race will be consistently better at not getting Knocked out cold for just having a bigger stat pool. The nature of this game just does not allow for racial passives that deal with health recover and healing received to be that useful.

I am not saying that the Orc has to be a Khajiit and Imperial to be good or even interesting, but there is something wrong and not fair to Orc players when the Orc race get's easily outclassed by other Races in terms of damage and survivability because of how game mechanics work. How I would re-imagine the Orc follows.

3. First Good Solution

What is a stat that deals with taking a beating which Orcs, traditionally in Elder Scrolls games, have? Well I imagine that this passive that I am thinking of involves the ultimate generating system. In Skyrim Orc's had the ability to berserk. Like ultimate abilities in ESO, Orcs had to bide their time before being able to berserk and also like using an ultimate orcs would deal more damage after berserking. Biding time is synonymous with gaining ultimate, taking a beating, berserking, dealing big berserk damage, and, lets just be honest, being an Orc.

Please give Orcs the ability to gain extra Ultimate when the are struck and take damage. This type of an effect will not only be in line with Orcs of passed Elder Scrolls games, but it will also be very flavorful, and put Orcs in a very unique spot as damage takers who you better not think about crossing.

4. Second Good Solution

What is a way to make Orcs damage dealing capabilities more consistent? Well, the short and simple way would be to give Orcs and percentage increase to their weapon damage. This would make sure that Orcs are good at stamina based battle, that is in line with their athleticism, and also in line with the other classes who benefit from their passives consistently
.

Overall, the Health Recovery/Healing gained and the Swift passive could be totally lost and very little of value would be lost. If these passives that I suggest where to be added to Orcs, dealing with Ultimate gained per hit and % increase of weapon damage, then I think Orcs would be in a great spot.

Again, I want to finally feel good as an orc and I never have. Please take it from me, an expert Orc, that I know what I want, am suggesting things that are fair which would make Orc players happy, and that I thinking of changes which are in line with the Elder Scrolls brand and, especially, the Elder Scrolls Online as a whole.

Thank you,

LT

Footfalls wrote: »

To summarize Argonian changes:
People who are happy: magicka builds, builds that heal others (sap tanks)
People who are not happy: stam builds, tanks that like getting healed

Also, lore! When I think Argonians I think resilient, sneaky, stealthy, guerilla warfare, poison darts, scouting and skirmishing. Not "good at healing others". Or even magicka, I maintain they should be more stamina based and dark elfs be more magicka based.

Or one day in the future, allow racial passive morphs so players can choose what kind of build they want to go.