Official Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Balance

Radburn

Ashamray wrote: »

On Live Nords have no "restrictions": they have benefits neither for stamina nor for magica. On PTS you guys push Nords to play stamina.
BTW, don't tell me Nords are suposed to be warriors. Shalidor is one of the greatest mages in Tamriel, and he is a Nord.
As already have been suggested, rework one Nord passive to boost food and drinks. For example, all food and drinks gain 30% increase when used by Nord.

I was quite happy with the Nord racials which as you said were neutral. I would rather Nords keep robust and the 30% health regen because that caters to specific health regen builds which can go either magicka or stamina. If this change is going to happen I'd prefer to see instead of 6% stamina a 3% increase to health/magicka/stamina to maintain it's neutral status.

Cloudless

Sedrethi wrote: »

Dark Elf Skills

• Ambidexterity/Ashlander: "Ashlander" will surely upset players who role-play as House Dunmer. I suggest "Ashborn" or, as suggested by another player, "Ancestor Guardian" to keep things a bit more traditional. I also agree with that player's proposal to replace the damage reduction from environmental lava in exchange for a Minor Evasion buff (ala Sanctuary in Morrowind).
• Flame Talent/Destructive Ancestry: Honestly, the bonus order (0/1/2%) could be improved ever-so-slightly (1/2/3%), but I'd rather the Frost and Shock damage boosts be replaced in favor of Spell critical chance (1/2/3%). It further fits into the shifty nature of the Dunmeri people.

Why, thank you! Now we just need someone with Azura's star as his avatar and we can go full Reclamations on this topic.

Thinking about it some more, the Ancestor Guardian passive might probably be better off triggering when specific conditions are met: e.g. when the character falls below 50% health he gains Minor Evasion for 15 seconds, but only once per minute. That would also fit the "guardian" part.

Every other change looks fine to me (of course I wouldn't mind more spell critical instead of a negligible elemental bonus, but I can live with that), so I'm just focusing on this specific one hoping to see it changed to be more fitting to Dunmeri lore and racial flavour.

Arato

Sedrethi wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

• What do you think about the changes?
• Are there any that you feel are too strong compared to the others? Too weak?
• Did you encounter any issues with the new Racial Passive changes?
• Are the changes going to make you change your character's race? If so, why?
• Are the changes going to encourage you to adjust your current build? If so, how?

Argonian Skills

• Amphibious/Resourceful: While the Max Magicka bonus is comparable to the Bosmer's Resist Affliction bonuses to Max Stamina (1/2/3%), it is appreciated nonetheless. Personally, I'd like both passives to be boosted up to (2/4/6%), and in the case of Argonians, maybe lessen the Max Health from Argonian Resistance (3/6/9%) to the same amounts (2/4/6%).
• Quick to Mend: I'm not seeing the issue with the change from "healing received" to "healing done" that other players have pointed out for tank builds, as I recall that both apply to you regardless. Unless players specifically wanted to stack "healing received" bonuses (Swallow Soul, Rapid Mending, Leeching Plate Set, etc.), I generally find "healing done" the superior of the two. If I am mistaken, please enlighten me.
• Restoration Expertise/Amphibian: Thank the Hist! Swift swimming it still a thing!

Okay I'll explain why quick to mend is a nerf.

It's called playing in groups with other people and not just using self heals.

As it is on live, your healers heal you, as an Argonian tank, for 9% more than they'd heal you if you were another race.

Comparatively, could be considered Nord, Imperial, and Argonian. The point of a tank is to keep a boss taunted and stay alive, and having secondary functions of debuffing the enemy and maybe providing some buffs for allies (the earthen heart minor berserk passive and such).

For Nords, they just take less incoming damage from every hit, that helps them survive better than other races trying to tank.

For Imperials, the just have more maximum health and stamina, and they get a little bit of self healing from their melee attacks giving them some sustain

For Argonians, they receive more health when your healer casts heals on them, so they're easier to heal, particularly from HoT's. They also get more out of healing potions

Tanks don't rely much on self heals to keep themselves up, they might use an emergency thing like dragon's blood (which is unaffected by outgoing healing and probably not affected by incoming healing as well, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's just 33% of your missing health), but most of the time.. that's why you bring a healer in the group.... to do the healing.

Otherwise your groups would just be a tank and 3 dps.

So the changes remove that method of having extra survivability from Argonian tanks (and then you want to remove some of their health bonus too, well, thanks for wanting to finish the job @Wrobel started of gutting Argonians as a tank race)

"so have your healer be an Argonian" is not a solution either, because then, it'd STILL be better to change race to Nord or Imperial to have a bigger health pool, or take less damage.

Argonian now offers very little for being a tank. I mean if you're a healer, because when you made your character you saw they had restoration staff specialist and immediately thought healer, because you were ignorant and didn't know that it would just make leveling up the skill line faster rather than actually making you more effective.. hooray you, you're now vindicated in your choice.

But for those of us who actually looked at the passives and thought "hey, being easier to heal and having a health bonus would make a good tank, and I'm already soft capped on armor and health (back when there were soft caps on everything...)" We're getting punished and charged however many thousands of crowns it costs for a race + name change.

Defilted

I do not understand why you are making the dark elves a more broad base magic using class. Traditionally dark elves have had a affinity to fire. protected and more skilled in its use. It makes them unique. Now you are changing it to give them a bonus to all three elements and not as good as the High elf's bonus.

So now I choose between extra magic and magic recover VS extra magika/stamina and fire resistance.

Are you pushing High elf to the glass cannon side (PVE) and the dark elf to well rounded PVP?

I am really just curious on your direction and why you made this decision? Still going to continue to play my Dark elf and High elf as is, so again just curious.

Arato

If you boost dark elf frost and shock damage to 1/2/3%, please boost altmer elemental damage to 1/3/5% I mean, otherwise, as it is, dunmer get 7% to fire, to have altmers only beating them out by 1% on shock and frost makes dunmer a clearly superior choice for magicka builds.

if Altmer do 5% more on all elements, but Dunmer do 3% on shock/frost and 7% on fire, well, it's more situational. Both would make good fire sorcerers, Dunmer clearly better pyromancer DK's, Altmer better shock sorcerers

SilentFox22

NORD (suggested passives)

• Inc dmg with 2H
• Dmg mit - bump up to 10%
• Inc max Sta or Sta regen or decrease cost of Sta abilities by x
• Inc max Hp

LadyNalcarya

Arato wrote: »

Sedrethi wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

• What do you think about the changes?
• Are there any that you feel are too strong compared to the others? Too weak?
• Did you encounter any issues with the new Racial Passive changes?
• Are the changes going to make you change your character's race? If so, why?
• Are the changes going to encourage you to adjust your current build? If so, how?

Argonian Skills

• Amphibious/Resourceful: While the Max Magicka bonus is comparable to the Bosmer's Resist Affliction bonuses to Max Stamina (1/2/3%), it is appreciated nonetheless. Personally, I'd like both passives to be boosted up to (2/4/6%), and in the case of Argonians, maybe lessen the Max Health from Argonian Resistance (3/6/9%) to the same amounts (2/4/6%).
• Quick to Mend: I'm not seeing the issue with the change from "healing received" to "healing done" that other players have pointed out for tank builds, as I recall that both apply to you regardless. Unless players specifically wanted to stack "healing received" bonuses (Swallow Soul, Rapid Mending, Leeching Plate Set, etc.), I generally find "healing done" the superior of the two. If I am mistaken, please enlighten me.
• Restoration Expertise/Amphibian: Thank the Hist! Swift swimming it still a thing!

Okay I'll explain why quick to mend is a nerf.

It's called playing in groups with other people and not just using self heals.

As it is on live, your healers heal you, as an Argonian tank, for 9% more than they'd heal you if you were another race.

Comparatively, could be considered Nord, Imperial, and Argonian. The point of a tank is to keep a boss taunted and stay alive, and having secondary functions of debuffing the enemy and maybe providing some buffs for allies (the earthen heart minor berserk passive and such).

For Nords, they just take less incoming damage from every hit, that helps them survive better than other races trying to tank.

For Imperials, the just have more maximum health and stamina, and they get a little bit of self healing from their melee attacks giving them some sustain

For Argonians, they receive more health when your healer casts heals on them, so they're easier to heal, particularly from HoT's. They also get more out of healing potions

Tanks don't rely much on self heals to keep themselves up, they might use an emergency thing like dragon's blood (which is unaffected by outgoing healing and probably not affected by incoming healing as well, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's just 33% of your missing health), but most of the time.. that's why you bring a healer in the group.... to do the healing.

Otherwise your groups would just be a tank and 3 dps.

So the changes remove that method of having extra survivability from Argonian tanks (and then you want to remove some of their health bonus too, well, thanks for wanting to finish the job @Wrobel started of gutting Argonians as a tank race)

"so have your healer be an Argonian" is not a solution either, because then, it'd STILL be better to change race to Nord or Imperial to have a bigger health pool, or take less damage.

Argonian now offers very little for being a tank. I mean if you're a healer, because when you made your character you saw they had restoration staff specialist and immediately thought healer, because you were ignorant and didn't know that it would just make leveling up the skill line faster rather than actually making you more effective.. hooray you, you're now vindicated in your choice.

But for those of us who actually looked at the passives and thought "hey, being easier to heal and having a health bonus would make a good tank, and I'm already soft capped on armor and health (back when there were soft caps on everything...)" We're getting punished and charged however many thousands of crowns it costs for a race + name change.

These are some very good points.
Also... Argonians are a reptilian race. So it makes sense for them to be more durable and regenerate quicker than humans/mer.
Lets take a look at their Morrowind stats:

Athletics +15
Alchemy +5
Illusion +5
Medium Armor +5
Mysticism +5
Spear +5
Unarmored +5

And on their Oblivion stats:

+10 Athletics and Security
+5 Alchemy, Blade, Hand to Hand, Illusion, and Mysticism

In Skyrim they got a minor (+5) bonus to restoration, but the main theme remained the same:

+10 Lockpicking
+5 Alteration, Light Armor, Pickpocket, Restoration, Sneak

It doesnt seem like "this race should be the best healer" to me. More like nightblade-ish type of character, which is supported by their lore.
So... This decision is not lore friendly imo, and was only made to cater to people who thought that 15% extra resto staff exp is a major buff for healing.
I think that +to regens and extra magic/poison/disease damage would suit argonians much better. And sneak passive from khajiits and bosmer can be applied too I think.

Sedrethi

Arato wrote: »

Sedrethi wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

[Snip.]

[Snip.]

[Snip.]

I understand now. I assumed the uproar was due to self-healing in general that I didn't really see it from the perspective of the Argonian tank wanting the extra healing received from other group members. Neither of my Argonians are built to be healers (not directly, anyway), seeing as one is a Sorcerer and the other being Nightblade Saptank-to-be in response to the unsolicited and continuing punishment towards tanks in general. I will say though that most heals from group mates tend to be "over-healing" and that "healing received" can still be stacked to decent amounts, but I see your point.

I suppose my opinion on Quick to Mend has changed somewhat, where if ZOS can find a balance to offer both "healing received" (3/6/9%) and "healing done" (1/2/3%), I think that wouldn't be too terrible for both healers and tanks.

I'll reflect this in my previous post.

Cloudless wrote: »

Sedrethi wrote: »

[Snip.]

[Snip.]

Indeed, the Good Daedra will reclaim what was theirs to begin with.

Also, agreed that there should be a condition and/or internal cooldown on it to make it similar to other such passives. Minor Evasion for 15 seconds when at 50% health or below with a cooldown of once every 30s-1m seems fair, maybe?

NordSwordnBoard

SilentFox22 wrote: »

NORD (suggested passives)

• Inc dmg with 2H
• Dmg mit - bump up to 10%
• Inc max Sta or Sta regen or decrease cost of Sta abilities by x
• Inc max Hp

Include staff weapons with the 2h and I say hell yeah (Shalidor winks)

I would much rather see the damage mitigation go up to 10%. Also, I'd even say skip the proposed stamina bonuses in favor of Nords having the best damage mitigation in game. Damage mitigation helps any class of Nord, expanding your options for play style outside of stamina melee.

Joy_Division

I don't know why your combat team thought Bretons were comparable to Altmer as far as magicka races go, but they are mistaken.

Also Dunmer and Kahjiit are two of the best races in the game and got buffed. I do not so mind buffs, but you've got to toss a bone to those unfortunates like myself that would rather not change the race they pick becuase they actually want to play it.

Nord Healer Templar = RIP. Worst race possible. Even argonians are laughing.

I seriously think the 2+ years of frustrating racial imbalance was 100% intentional to get us to pay ZOS money for a race change.

Shadesofkin

Went onto my Argonian mDK and again found nothing wrong, really enjoy this change to them.

LadyNalcarya

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

(Shalidor winks)

Shalidor is not your typical nord though.
And racials are based on common stereotypes. Of course, there are nords who hate mead and are very talented in magic (for example), or altmer that cannot cast even the weakest spell, but average altmer is more likely to be a mage than nord.

Faulgor

Sedrethi wrote: »

Indeed, the Good Daedra will reclaim what was theirs to begin with.

Also, agreed that there should be a condition and/or internal cooldown on it to make it similar to other such passives. Minor Evasion for 15 seconds when at 50% health or below with a cooldown of once every 30s-1m seems fair, maybe?

As much as I'd like to see Ancestor Guardian, an increased dodge chance is not merely non-combat fluff like the other races have in their first skill. So they should put it on one of the later passives, imo.

My suggestion would be

• Change Resist Flame to Ancestor Guardian. No longer increases maximum magicka. Instead, when you fall below 50% health, gain Minor Evasion for 10 seconds. 3/2/1 minute cooldown.
• Flame Talent increases spell damage with fire by 3/5/7% and maximum magicka by 1/2/3%. No increase to frost or shock damage.

Sedrethi

Faulgor wrote: »

[Snip.]

That seems much more fair, actually. If they're willing to change all of that, I could see that being a much better implementation of it. I'll reflect that in my post as well, with credit to you.

NordSwordnBoard

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

(Shalidor winks)

Shalidor is not your typical nord though.
And racials are based on common stereotypes. Of course, there are nords who hate mead and are very talented in magic (for example), or altmer that cannot cast even the weakest spell, but average altmer is more likely to be a mage than nord.

@KoshkaMurka You're right, although I like magic and love mead. I just want to relate to my idol!

I was just thinking it could help existing magical Nords, yet it wouldn't make people flock to the Nord race just for that racial bonus to apply to a build.

Really what I think would benefit the Nords most while staying in the lore is simply more damage mitigation. Any Nord class/play style would benefit from it.

Again, I wish race choice was based on preference not performance. Making all passives weaker in general would not penalize noobs as much for making early mistakes with their toon. This can be changed later with crowns but it does not fix the system that causes it.

Shadesofkin

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

(Shalidor winks)

Shalidor is not your typical nord though.
And racials are based on common stereotypes. Of course, there are nords who hate mead and are very talented in magic (for example), or altmer that cannot cast even the weakest spell, but average altmer is more likely to be a mage than nord.

@KoshkaMurka You're right, although I like magic and love mead. I just want to relate to my idol!

I was just thinking it could help existing magical Nords, yet it wouldn't make people flock to the Nord race just for that racial bonus to apply to a build.

Really what I think would benefit the Nords most while staying in the lore is simply more damage mitigation. Any Nord class/play style would benefit from it.

Again, I wish race choice was based on preference not performance. Making all passives weaker in general would not penalize noobs as much for making early mistakes with their toon. This can be changed later with crowns but it does not fix the system that causes it.

If race choice is on performance over preference, thats on the person making that choice.

I have several non optimized characters which I will happily use in End Game material. Sure I might not be guaranteed my leaderboard slot like when I run my Dunmer with my very well oiled machine of a group, but you can bet your tail ill complete it in a good time and with a fine score and ill get my loot.

LadyNalcarya

@NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

(Shalidor winks)

Shalidor is not your typical nord though.
And racials are based on common stereotypes. Of course, there are nords who hate mead and are very talented in magic (for example), or altmer that cannot cast even the weakest spell, but average altmer is more likely to be a mage than nord.

@KoshkaMurka You're right, although I like magic and love mead. I just want to relate to my idol!

I was just thinking it could help existing magical Nords, yet it wouldn't make people flock to the Nord race just for that racial bonus to apply to a build.

Really what I think would benefit the Nords most while staying in the lore is simply more damage mitigation. Any Nord class/play style would benefit from it.

Again, I wish race choice was based on preference not performance. Making all passives weaker in general would not penalize noobs as much for making early mistakes with their toon. This can be changed later with crowns but it does not fix the system that causes it.

Well, I think it would be nice if some "flavour" passives were fixed (like that swimming speed on argonians), but the rest would be chosen by players. So there would be some innate racial traits, and some "talents' that would vary from character to character depending on their preference.
For example, an altmer would have extra elemental damage and bretons would be resistant to magic but they would still be able to choose whichever stat buff they want. So the races wont lose individuality this way, but characters will be more individual, so to speak...

Ghost-Shot

Joy_Division wrote: »

I don't know why your combat team thought Bretons were comparable to Altmer as far as magicka races go, but they are mistaken.

Also Dunmer and Kahjiit are two of the best races in the game and got buffed. I do not so mind buffs, but you've got to toss a bone to those unfortunates like myself that would rather not change the race they pick becuase they actually want to play it.

Nord Healer Templar = RIP. Worst race possible. Even argonians are laughing.

I seriously think the 2+ years of frustrating racial imbalance was 100% intentional to get us to pay ZOS money for a race change.

Dunmer is actually really weak compared to altmer right now because the flame damage passive is not working, I tend to assume this will be a repeat of the Khajiit crit passive and take 6 months to fix.

PlagueMonk

Jar_Ek wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

As you are probably well aware, the Argonian healer community is quite happy with you today ZOS. Thanks.

Unfortunately the Argonian tank community are far from happy.

The um, Argonian NB community are on the outraged side as well. (and for good reason)

If you are not an Argonian healer come this patch you will get a HUGE assed nerf.

Nikkor

kitty cat got a little too strong. dial that back.

nord health recovery def needs to be back at 30 or higher. like the stamina.

bretons 1 percent ap gain needs to go. thats game breaking wrong/bad choice/not fair gameplay.

happy with everything else.

ManDraKE

SilentFox22 wrote: »

NORD (suggested passives)

• Inc dmg with 2H
• Dmg mit - bump up to 10%
• Inc max Sta or Sta regen or decrease cost of Sta abilities by x
• Inc max Hp

Sure, also lets add this

• 50% damage increase
• If your health drops to 20%, restore back to 100% and grant a 10k damage shield for 6 seconds
• Increase Max Stamina, Health and Magika by 10%
• Increase Stamina, Health and Magika Recovery by 20%
• Once a week, grant 1 millon gold, just because

I love when people think that they have good suggestions to game's balance lol

SilentFox22

ManDraKE wrote: »

SilentFox22 wrote: »

NORD (suggested passives)

• Inc dmg with 2H
• Dmg mit - bump up to 10%
• Inc max Sta or Sta regen or decrease cost of Sta abilities by x
• Inc max Hp

Sure, also lets add this

• 50% damage increase
• If your health drops to 20%, restore back to 100% and grant a 10k damage shield for 6 seconds
• Increase Max Stamina, Health and Magika by 10%
• Increase Stamina, Health and Magika Recovery by 20%
• Once a week, grant 1 millon gold, just because

I love when people think that they have good suggestions to game's balance lol

Hey, they asked for feedback. Don't hate. lol

Arato

Sedrethi wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Sedrethi wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

[Snip.]

[Snip.]

[Snip.]

I understand now. I assumed the uproar was due to self-healing in general that I didn't really see it from the perspective of the Argonian tank wanting the extra healing received from other group members. Neither of my Argonians are built to be healers (not directly, anyway), seeing as one is a Sorcerer and the other being Nightblade Saptank-to-be in response to the unsolicited and continuing punishment towards tanks in general. I will say though that most heals from group mates tend to be "over-healing" and that "healing received" can still be stacked to decent amounts, but I see your point.

I suppose my opinion on Quick to Mend has changed somewhat, where if ZOS can find a balance to offer both "healing received" (3/6/9%) and "healing done" (1/2/3%), I think that wouldn't be too terrible for both healers and tanks.

I'll reflect this in my previous post.

Cloudless wrote: »

Sedrethi wrote: »

[Snip.]

[Snip.]

Indeed, the Good Daedra will reclaim what was theirs to begin with.

Also, agreed that there should be a condition and/or internal cooldown on it to make it similar to other such passives. Minor Evasion for 15 seconds when at 50% health or below with a cooldown of once every 30s-1m seems fair, maybe?

Mostly quick to mend helped you when you were getting healed by HoT's, yeah I mean, big heals overheal, but when you're getting HoT's, it's nice to get extra on that, stabilizes the amount of damage you're taking it's like an indirect damage mitigation. It's all the same thing, EHP (Effective HP), Imperials have it through having a higher health pool, Nords have it through reduced incoming damage, and Argonians used to have it through more efficient healing done to them (I guess orcs have that now but it's weaker than Argonians ever were)

Arato

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

As you are probably well aware, the Argonian healer community is quite happy with you today ZOS. Thanks.

Unfortunately the Argonian tank community are far from happy.

The um, Argonian NB community are on the outraged side as well. (and for good reason)

If you are not an Argonian healer come this patch you will get a HUGE assed nerf.

Well as far as I know, the race wasn't very well suited to stam dps, never has been suited to stam or magicka DPS, it was suited for tank

Used to be:
Increased swim speed 50% & Increased potion effects 30% (so increased healing from Tripots, increased duration of effects for other pots like invis)
Increased disease resistance & 1/2/3% increased health (not much but at the time you could soft cap health anyway)
Increased incoming healing 6%.

First big sweeping change was they changed how the stats all worked and removed softcaps. Suddenly a 3% health boost was vastly inferior to a 9-12% health boost, and Nord's passive was 6% reduced damage rather than 250 extra armor (which people were soft capped on just by wearing heavy armor), it bypassed armor mitigation diminishing returns, so now that was attractive. At the same time, they nerfed our potion passive to a weaker form of what it is now.

People got angry, demanded changes, so we got what we have now, a better health boost, a stronger incoming heal boost, the potion bonus is a bit better. For awhile, things were good.

Then @Wrobel comes along and jacks it all up again.

Tdroid

I think that the Khajiit change might be too powerful, as they are already a great choice for stamina DPS. At best it is redundant.

Adrenaline Rush should perhaps get a longer cooldown periode. It is a very powerful passive, especially with the +10% regen the Redguards already have.

My overall impression? I still think all combat related effects should be removed or nerfed to the ground, leaving racial choice a cosmetic one, with certain utility ones(like the drink and food bonus for Nords and Redguards) in the game for flavor.

CP5

Checked on pts for the khajiit changes. My health regen tank lost 300 health regen and gained 1k stam, a low stamina alt gained 2k stamina and lost 60 health regen. I do not like these changes.

1. As others have said it makes a strong stamina dps race even stronger and completly overshadows the bosmer as they are more alike than ever
2. It removes one of the health regen races, reducing the number of races who can easily stack health regen, and leaves AD without a race with this kind of passive
3. And as mentioned earlier it just makes bosmer and khajiit so much alike

Please, don't nerf existing khajiit racials, just revert that passive's change, the race offers something special with a balance between passive survivability and damage, if they insist on keeping the 6% max stam all i see is the class being bent out of shape with pointless nerfs to compensate for this out of nowhere change.

ADarklore

I will just go on record as stating that I do NOT agree that Khajiit should receive another damage bonus... for the same exact reasons that just a few short months ago there was massive outrage over Altmer and Bosmer receiving a buff... which the devs rescinded the next update. If you're going to buff Khajiit, buff it like you've done with most of the other races, with a stat that is inconsequential in actual gameplay.

Arato

so the most contentious changes appear to be:

Argonian: changes loved by healers, hated by tanks, and disappointing to people who want to rp a shadowscale assassin.
Breton: 1% AP seen by some as being a joke, by others as something that could break the economy.
Khajiit: buffing an already strong stam race to be the definitive strongest stam race, and making Bosmer redundant

PlagueMonk

Arato wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

As you are probably well aware, the Argonian healer community is quite happy with you today ZOS. Thanks.

Unfortunately the Argonian tank community are far from happy.

The um, Argonian NB community are on the outraged side as well. (and for good reason)

If you are not an Argonian healer come this patch you will get a HUGE assed nerf.

Well as far as I know, the race wasn't very well suited to stam dps, never has been suited to stam or magicka DPS, it was suited for tank

Used to be:
Increased swim speed 50% & Increased potion effects 30% (so increased healing from Tripots, increased duration of effects for other pots like invis)
Increased disease resistance & 1/2/3% increased health (not much but at the time you could soft cap health anyway)
Increased incoming healing 6%.

First big sweeping change was they changed how the stats all worked and removed softcaps. Suddenly a 3% health boost was vastly inferior to a 9-12% health boost, and Nord's passive was 6% reduced damage rather than 250 extra armor (which people were soft capped on just by wearing heavy armor), it bypassed armor mitigation diminishing returns, so now that was attractive. At the same time, they nerfed our potion passive to a weaker form of what it is now.

People got angry, demanded changes, so we got what we have now, a better health boost, a stronger incoming heal boost, the potion bonus is a bit better. For awhile, things were good.

Then @Wrobel comes along and jacks it all up again.

Suited for a tank? I defy you to find a single guide that would recommend an Argonian tank over all of the other available races. The grim fact is, they aren't the best tank either (although they are more suited to tank than most of the other choices). The even grimmer fact is, an Argonian does not top the list for playing ANY class or style.

They were pretty good initially as a NB because of the nice potion synergy the NB class HAD with the nice racial passive. Well once they removed that NB bonus things went downhill for the Argonian NB.

I also don't know why you are trying to make some odd case that your tank is somehow hurt more than other Non-healer Argonians. Instead of trying to show you are more crippled, you should just be outraged for ALL the non-healer Argonians. This hurts most of us to lose our one decent passive that benefited EVERYONE. If these changes go through, if I don't heal you lose that racial passive which is just a stupid bad idea imho.

dodgehopper_ESO

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

@NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

(Shalidor winks)

Shalidor is not your typical nord though.
And racials are based on common stereotypes. Of course, there are nords who hate mead and are very talented in magic (for example), or altmer that cannot cast even the weakest spell, but average altmer is more likely to be a mage than nord.

@KoshkaMurka You're right, although I like magic and love mead. I just want to relate to my idol!

I was just thinking it could help existing magical Nords, yet it wouldn't make people flock to the Nord race just for that racial bonus to apply to a build.

Really what I think would benefit the Nords most while staying in the lore is simply more damage mitigation. Any Nord class/play style would benefit from it.

Again, I wish race choice was based on preference not performance. Making all passives weaker in general would not penalize noobs as much for making early mistakes with their toon. This can be changed later with crowns but it does not fix the system that causes it.

Well, I think it would be nice if some "flavour" passives were fixed (like that swimming speed on argonians), but the rest would be chosen by players. So there would be some innate racial traits, and some "talents' that would vary from character to character depending on their preference.
For example, an altmer would have extra elemental damage and bretons would be resistant to magic but they would still be able to choose whichever stat buff they want. So the races wont lose individuality this way, but characters will be more individual, so to speak...

I like this idea. I still also want to push the idea that they should get away with percentile bonuses on the racials, and instead make them level/CP-static attribute bonuses, not modifiers. This way if you're an Imperial Mage for instance, your stamina and health bonus is useful, and also means you really don't need to use a food that would boost those attributes perhaps (as an example). This kind of change would also make a lot of the racial attributes less of the weight that it is now.