Official Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Balance

Junkogen

Solariken wrote: »

Because Imperials are locked behind a paywall, there should be a very clear and desirable benefit for choosing them over other races. That benefit should NOT be a raw power advantage over other races, as many players would perceive this as “pay-to-win.” I believe the Imperial benefit should be that they are synergistic with the greatest variety of character builds and perform competitively in the greatest variety of situations. Additionally, they should be among the most conducive to switching your character between magicka and stamina specializations. I believe this is consistent with lore, as Imperials are not generally the biggest, strongest, fastest, most adept with magic, etc when compared to other races of Tamriel but they are emulous with all. Imperial physique is rooted in a solid foundation of legion basic training. Please consider this idea:

Red Diamond
Max health is increased by 3/6/9%. Melee attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max health over 3 seconds.

Legionnaire
Max stamina is increased by 3/6/9%. Critical strikes with weapon attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max stamina over 3 seconds.

Arcane Tenacity
Max magicka is increased by 3/6/9%. Spells causing damage or healing over time have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max magicka over 3 seconds.


The restorative portion of each passive offers sustain that is subject to RNG in the spirit of the current Red Diamond. The procs are strong but situational and overall slightly weaker than a direct boost to recovery stats that other races enjoy. They do not stack or directly interact with your character's recovery stats and are not prone to runaway multiplicative boost. The 3 second duration is also important because it prevents rapid fire procs - if additional procs occur during the 3 seconds, the duration is simply refreshed. These restorative passives scale nicely with the player's build and are very adaptive and useful to a huge number of builds.

If you want to be the BEST tank, pick another race. If you want to be BEST DPS, pick another race. If you want to be the BEST healer, pick another race. But if you want to have the most options and be able to perform any role respectably well, pick Imperial.

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel @ZOS_KNowak @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

You must be out yo' damn mind.

juhasman

Solariken wrote: »

Because Imperials are locked behind a paywall, there should be a very clear and desirable benefit for choosing them over other races. That benefit should NOT be a raw power advantage over other races, as many players would perceive this as “pay-to-win.” I believe the Imperial benefit should be that they are synergistic with the greatest variety of character builds and perform competitively in the greatest variety of situations. Additionally, they should be among the most conducive to switching your character between magicka and stamina specializations. I believe this is consistent with lore, as Imperials are not generally the biggest, strongest, fastest, most adept with magic, etc when compared to other races of Tamriel but they are emulous with all. Imperial physique is rooted in a solid foundation of legion basic training. Please consider this idea:

Red Diamond
Max health is increased by 3/6/9%. Melee attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max health over 3 seconds.

Legionnaire
Max stamina is increased by 3/6/9%. Critical strikes with weapon attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max stamina over 3 seconds.

Arcane Tenacity
Max magicka is increased by 3/6/9%. Spells causing damage or healing over time have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max magicka over 3 seconds.


The restorative portion of each passive offers sustain that is subject to RNG in the spirit of the current Red Diamond. The procs are strong but situational and overall slightly weaker than a direct boost to recovery stats that other races enjoy. They do not stack or directly interact with your character's recovery stats and are not prone to runaway multiplicative boost. The 3 second duration is also important because it prevents rapid fire procs - if additional procs occur during the 3 seconds, the duration is simply refreshed. These restorative passives scale nicely with the player's build and are very adaptive and useful to a huge number of builds.

If you want to be the BEST tank, pick another race. If you want to be BEST DPS, pick another race. If you want to be the BEST healer, pick another race. But if you want to have the most options and be able to perform any role respectably well, pick Imperial.

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel @ZOS_KNowak @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Christ all that 3 passives in 1 race? Someone loosed his mind here. That would be clearly pay to win.

juhasman

I would feel much better on orc if he would have lowered cost of dodge roll added to current lowered cost of sprint instead of 5% more healing. I like the speed of buffed sprinting orc and to get buff usually i need ot dodge roll so it would synergize nicely. But it's just my vision.

juhasman

Khajiit seems to be OP especially in PvE. If that 6% max stam stays then 8% wep crit need to be changed maybe for 4% spell/wep crit , maybe even put 3% more magicka somwhere.

Solariken

juhasman wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Because Imperials are locked behind a paywall, there should be a very clear and desirable benefit for choosing them over other races. That benefit should NOT be a raw power advantage over other races, as many players would perceive this as “pay-to-win.” I believe the Imperial benefit should be that they are synergistic with the greatest variety of character builds and perform competitively in the greatest variety of situations. Additionally, they should be among the most conducive to switching your character between magicka and stamina specializations. I believe this is consistent with lore, as Imperials are not generally the biggest, strongest, fastest, most adept with magic, etc when compared to other races of Tamriel but they are emulous with all. Imperial physique is rooted in a solid foundation of legion basic training. Please consider this idea:

Red Diamond
Max health is increased by 3/6/9%. Melee attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max health over 3 seconds.

Legionnaire
Max stamina is increased by 3/6/9%. Critical strikes with weapon attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max stamina over 3 seconds.

Arcane Tenacity
Max magicka is increased by 3/6/9%. Spells causing damage or healing over time have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max magicka over 3 seconds.


The restorative portion of each passive offers sustain that is subject to RNG in the spirit of the current Red Diamond. The procs are strong but situational and overall slightly weaker than a direct boost to recovery stats that other races enjoy. They do not stack or directly interact with your character's recovery stats and are not prone to runaway multiplicative boost. The 3 second duration is also important because it prevents rapid fire procs - if additional procs occur during the 3 seconds, the duration is simply refreshed. These restorative passives scale nicely with the player's build and are very adaptive and useful to a huge number of builds.

If you want to be the BEST tank, pick another race. If you want to be BEST DPS, pick another race. If you want to be the BEST healer, pick another race. But if you want to have the most options and be able to perform any role respectably well, pick Imperial.

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel @ZOS_KNowak @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Christ all that 3 passives in 1 race? Someone loosed his mind here. That would be clearly pay to win.

Why @juhasman ? What can this toolkit do that can't be done better with another race? My proposed changes make Imperials decent at lots of things but not the best at anything. It's not pay to win if you don't have a power advantage...

juhasman

Solariken wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Because Imperials are locked behind a paywall, there should be a very clear and desirable benefit for choosing them over other races. That benefit should NOT be a raw power advantage over other races, as many players would perceive this as “pay-to-win.” I believe the Imperial benefit should be that they are synergistic with the greatest variety of character builds and perform competitively in the greatest variety of situations. Additionally, they should be among the most conducive to switching your character between magicka and stamina specializations. I believe this is consistent with lore, as Imperials are not generally the biggest, strongest, fastest, most adept with magic, etc when compared to other races of Tamriel but they are emulous with all. Imperial physique is rooted in a solid foundation of legion basic training. Please consider this idea:

Red Diamond
Max health is increased by 3/6/9%. Melee attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max health over 3 seconds.

Legionnaire
Max stamina is increased by 3/6/9%. Critical strikes with weapon attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max stamina over 3 seconds.

Arcane Tenacity
Max magicka is increased by 3/6/9%. Spells causing damage or healing over time have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max magicka over 3 seconds.


The restorative portion of each passive offers sustain that is subject to RNG in the spirit of the current Red Diamond. The procs are strong but situational and overall slightly weaker than a direct boost to recovery stats that other races enjoy. They do not stack or directly interact with your character's recovery stats and are not prone to runaway multiplicative boost. The 3 second duration is also important because it prevents rapid fire procs - if additional procs occur during the 3 seconds, the duration is simply refreshed. These restorative passives scale nicely with the player's build and are very adaptive and useful to a huge number of builds.

If you want to be the BEST tank, pick another race. If you want to be BEST DPS, pick another race. If you want to be the BEST healer, pick another race. But if you want to have the most options and be able to perform any role respectably well, pick Imperial.

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel @ZOS_KNowak @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Christ all that 3 passives in 1 race? Someone loosed his mind here. That would be clearly pay to win.

Why @juhasman ? What can this toolkit do that can't be done better with another race? My proposed changes make Imperials decent at lots of things but not the best at anything. It's not pay to win if you don't have a power advantage...

Someone is not thinking about PvP enviroment here. 9% more to all 3 statistics? 6% magicka and stamina return? That would make some builds op AF. For now redguard is considered of one of the most if not the most powerful stamina race. You wanna make imeprial a much better version of redguard with possibility to easily switch between magicka and stamina without any penatly.

Solariken

juhasman wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Because Imperials are locked behind a paywall, there should be a very clear and desirable benefit for choosing them over other races. That benefit should NOT be a raw power advantage over other races, as many players would perceive this as “pay-to-win.” I believe the Imperial benefit should be that they are synergistic with the greatest variety of character builds and perform competitively in the greatest variety of situations. Additionally, they should be among the most conducive to switching your character between magicka and stamina specializations. I believe this is consistent with lore, as Imperials are not generally the biggest, strongest, fastest, most adept with magic, etc when compared to other races of Tamriel but they are emulous with all. Imperial physique is rooted in a solid foundation of legion basic training. Please consider this idea:

Red Diamond
Max health is increased by 3/6/9%. Melee attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max health over 3 seconds.

Legionnaire
Max stamina is increased by 3/6/9%. Critical strikes with weapon attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max stamina over 3 seconds.

Arcane Tenacity
Max magicka is increased by 3/6/9%. Spells causing damage or healing over time have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max magicka over 3 seconds.


The restorative portion of each passive offers sustain that is subject to RNG in the spirit of the current Red Diamond. The procs are strong but situational and overall slightly weaker than a direct boost to recovery stats that other races enjoy. They do not stack or directly interact with your character's recovery stats and are not prone to runaway multiplicative boost. The 3 second duration is also important because it prevents rapid fire procs - if additional procs occur during the 3 seconds, the duration is simply refreshed. These restorative passives scale nicely with the player's build and are very adaptive and useful to a huge number of builds.

If you want to be the BEST tank, pick another race. If you want to be BEST DPS, pick another race. If you want to be the BEST healer, pick another race. But if you want to have the most options and be able to perform any role respectably well, pick Imperial.

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel @ZOS_KNowak @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Christ all that 3 passives in 1 race? Someone loosed his mind here. That would be clearly pay to win.

Why @juhasman ? What can this toolkit do that can't be done better with another race? My proposed changes make Imperials decent at lots of things but not the best at anything. It's not pay to win if you don't have a power advantage...

Someone is not thinking about PvP enviroment here. 9% more to all 3 statistics? 6% magicka and stamina return? That would make some builds op AF. For now redguard is considered of one of the most if not the most powerful stamina race. You wanna make imeprial a much better version of redguard with possibility to easily switch between magicka and stamina without any penatly.

Haha @juhasman, what type of build would be OP with this racial set? In my suggestion, I nerfed the 12% HP and 10% stam that Imperials currently have. If you are running a stamina build, 9% max magicka is nothing. Hybrid resource builds are nothing to fear in PvP.

The resource returns are situational and have a low chance to proc. Ask yourself - how many healer builds are going to proc the stamina return with a weapon critical strike? If a stamina Templar procs the magicka return with Purifying Ritual, how much magicka will he get back?

I challenge you to think up one build that is OP compared to what another race can do. I'm telling you right now, you won't find one.

juhasman

Solariken wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Because Imperials are locked behind a paywall, there should be a very clear and desirable benefit for choosing them over other races. That benefit should NOT be a raw power advantage over other races, as many players would perceive this as “pay-to-win.” I believe the Imperial benefit should be that they are synergistic with the greatest variety of character builds and perform competitively in the greatest variety of situations. Additionally, they should be among the most conducive to switching your character between magicka and stamina specializations. I believe this is consistent with lore, as Imperials are not generally the biggest, strongest, fastest, most adept with magic, etc when compared to other races of Tamriel but they are emulous with all. Imperial physique is rooted in a solid foundation of legion basic training. Please consider this idea:

Red Diamond
Max health is increased by 3/6/9%. Melee attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max health over 3 seconds.

Legionnaire
Max stamina is increased by 3/6/9%. Critical strikes with weapon attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max stamina over 3 seconds.

Arcane Tenacity
Max magicka is increased by 3/6/9%. Spells causing damage or healing over time have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max magicka over 3 seconds.


The restorative portion of each passive offers sustain that is subject to RNG in the spirit of the current Red Diamond. The procs are strong but situational and overall slightly weaker than a direct boost to recovery stats that other races enjoy. They do not stack or directly interact with your character's recovery stats and are not prone to runaway multiplicative boost. The 3 second duration is also important because it prevents rapid fire procs - if additional procs occur during the 3 seconds, the duration is simply refreshed. These restorative passives scale nicely with the player's build and are very adaptive and useful to a huge number of builds.

If you want to be the BEST tank, pick another race. If you want to be BEST DPS, pick another race. If you want to be the BEST healer, pick another race. But if you want to have the most options and be able to perform any role respectably well, pick Imperial.

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel @ZOS_KNowak @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Christ all that 3 passives in 1 race? Someone loosed his mind here. That would be clearly pay to win.

Why @juhasman ? What can this toolkit do that can't be done better with another race? My proposed changes make Imperials decent at lots of things but not the best at anything. It's not pay to win if you don't have a power advantage...

Someone is not thinking about PvP enviroment here. 9% more to all 3 statistics? 6% magicka and stamina return? That would make some builds op AF. For now redguard is considered of one of the most if not the most powerful stamina race. You wanna make imeprial a much better version of redguard with possibility to easily switch between magicka and stamina without any penatly.

Haha @juhasman, what type of build would be OP with this racial set? In my suggestion, I nerfed the 12% HP and 10% stam that Imperials currently have. If you are running a stamina build, 9% max magicka is nothing. Hybrid resource builds are nothing to fear in PvP.

The resource returns are situational and have a low chance to proc. Ask yourself - how many healer builds are going to proc the stamina return with a weapon critical strike? If a stamina Templar procs the magicka return with Purifying Ritual, how much magicka will he get back?

I challenge you to think up one build that is OP compared to what another race can do. I'm telling you right now, you won't find one.

I dont even need to think what build would be OP. My 1st suggestion magicka sorc. 9% magicka good 10% chance when i am using spell to restore 6% max magicka OP , 9 % more stamina and chance to get back 6% stamina on pvp priceless. But that;s not all You also wanna give me 9% more hp which force my enemie to deal more dmg to me 1st through sheilds values increased thx for max magicka and then through my increased hp. And if You think 10% is situational You're wrong. Skoria have much lower chance to proc and only on DoT's and still You can see meteors falling down each 10 seconds.

Eejit1331

Bretons are falling behind. A fair buff imo would be add spell crit bonus and teak other passive to balance, but right o Breton are bottom tier on magician damage.

juhasman

@Solariken There is not even a reason to discuss Your vision because it's obvious it wont find anyone who would agree. If You would divide values by 3 then maybe...

Solariken

juhasman wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Because Imperials are locked behind a paywall, there should be a very clear and desirable benefit for choosing them over other races. That benefit should NOT be a raw power advantage over other races, as many players would perceive this as “pay-to-win.” I believe the Imperial benefit should be that they are synergistic with the greatest variety of character builds and perform competitively in the greatest variety of situations. Additionally, they should be among the most conducive to switching your character between magicka and stamina specializations. I believe this is consistent with lore, as Imperials are not generally the biggest, strongest, fastest, most adept with magic, etc when compared to other races of Tamriel but they are emulous with all. Imperial physique is rooted in a solid foundation of legion basic training. Please consider this idea:

Red Diamond
Max health is increased by 3/6/9%. Melee attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max health over 3 seconds.

Legionnaire
Max stamina is increased by 3/6/9%. Critical strikes with weapon attacks have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max stamina over 3 seconds.

Arcane Tenacity
Max magicka is increased by 3/6/9%. Spells causing damage or healing over time have a 10% chance to restore 2/4/6% of max magicka over 3 seconds.


The restorative portion of each passive offers sustain that is subject to RNG in the spirit of the current Red Diamond. The procs are strong but situational and overall slightly weaker than a direct boost to recovery stats that other races enjoy. They do not stack or directly interact with your character's recovery stats and are not prone to runaway multiplicative boost. The 3 second duration is also important because it prevents rapid fire procs - if additional procs occur during the 3 seconds, the duration is simply refreshed. These restorative passives scale nicely with the player's build and are very adaptive and useful to a huge number of builds.

If you want to be the BEST tank, pick another race. If you want to be BEST DPS, pick another race. If you want to be the BEST healer, pick another race. But if you want to have the most options and be able to perform any role respectably well, pick Imperial.

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel @ZOS_KNowak @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Christ all that 3 passives in 1 race? Someone loosed his mind here. That would be clearly pay to win.

Why @juhasman ? What can this toolkit do that can't be done better with another race? My proposed changes make Imperials decent at lots of things but not the best at anything. It's not pay to win if you don't have a power advantage...

Someone is not thinking about PvP enviroment here. 9% more to all 3 statistics? 6% magicka and stamina return? That would make some builds op AF. For now redguard is considered of one of the most if not the most powerful stamina race. You wanna make imeprial a much better version of redguard with possibility to easily switch between magicka and stamina without any penatly.

Haha @juhasman, what type of build would be OP with this racial set? In my suggestion, I nerfed the 12% HP and 10% stam that Imperials currently have. If you are running a stamina build, 9% max magicka is nothing. Hybrid resource builds are nothing to fear in PvP.

The resource returns are situational and have a low chance to proc. Ask yourself - how many healer builds are going to proc the stamina return with a weapon critical strike? If a stamina Templar procs the magicka return with Purifying Ritual, how much magicka will he get back?

I challenge you to think up one build that is OP compared to what another race can do. I'm telling you right now, you won't find one.

I dont even need to think what build would be OP. My 1st suggestion magicka sorc. 9% magicka good 10% chance when i am using spell to restore 6% max magicka OP , 9 % more stamina and chance to get back 6% stamina on pvp priceless. But that;s not all You also wanna give me 9% more hp which force my enemie to deal more dmg to me 1st through sheilds values increased thx for max magicka and then through my increased hp. And if You think 10% is situational You're wrong. Skoria have much lower chance to proc and only on DoT's and still You can see meteors falling down each 10 seconds.

@juhasman, you are overstating the value of those bonuses

In your example the damage, max magicka, and resource return are still dwarfed by Altmer. Your stamina and health pools are already presumably tiny, so 9% is barely noticeable. You won't be proccing the stamina or health returns, probably ever. That build sounds like it is achieving exactly what I think it should - it's competitive in its own right, but still, why is that better on my setup than on another race?

Solariken

juhasman wrote: »

@Solariken There is not even a reason to discuss Your vision because it's obvious it wont find anyone who would agree. If You would divide values by 3 then maybe...

Well it should be obvious that the values are somewhat arbitrary and ZOS would do what they want with regard to balance anyway. I should have just used letter variables because it's really the tri-stat template and regen mechanics that are important.

SoulKing32

Arato wrote: »

SoulKing32 wrote: »

Very disappointed with the Nord passives. They are the worst out of all races - the stamina bonus is nice but its not enough to make them competitive.

They're one of the best tank races if not the best.

The races that are really underwhelming are orc and bosmer, arguably breton.

The other races..

Best Magicka DPS: Altmer, Dunmer
Best Healer: Argonian, some may argue Breton
Best Stam DPS: Khajiit, Redguard
Best Tank: Imperial, Nord

I mean, sorry you looked at Nord's racials and somehow thought it'd make a good Stam or Magicka DPS and have been disappointed by the outcome of that decision, but its passives have always leaned more towards tank. Health bonus, health regen bonus, incoming damage reduction, and now a MODERATE stam bonus

None of those passives ever screamed DPS to me.

You seem to argue out of a PVE-perspective, which is fine of course. In PVP there is no reason why someone should pick a Nord apart from cosmetic preferences. The health regen bonus is worthless for most PVP-builds, the damage reduction looks nice on paper but - as others have stated in this thread - is barely noticeable. I dont demand that Nord become a good race for DPS, I simply want ZOS to reduce the huge gap between good races like Kahijit/Redguard and Nord.

Ghost-Shot

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom can we get an update on the broken Dark Elf racial? The shock and frost damage portion is functioning correctly but the flame damage part is not boosting the damage.

dereck_phantom

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Racial Passive balance changes coming with Update 11. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• What do you think about the changes?
• Are there any that you feel are too strong compared to the others? Too weak?
• Did you encounter any issues with the new Racial Passive changes?
• Are the changes going to make you change your character's race? If so, why?
• Are the changes going to encourage you to adjust your current build? If so, how?

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Racial Passive balance changes coming with Update 11. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• What do you think about the changes?
• Are there any that you feel are too strong compared to the others? Too weak?
• Did you encounter any issues with the new Racial Passive changes?
• Are the changes going to make you change your character's race? If so, why?
• Are the changes going to encourage you to adjust your current build? If so, how?

TBH I always wanted to play khajiit and I like that passive change since I mainly play PVP I would love to play a good Stam build for my faction. Ppl are going to complain about ANY change ZOS does. I just adapt to whatever changes they make.

Giraffon

My thoughts in bold:

Argonian Skills
•Amphibious: This passive ability has been renamed to “Resourceful.” Also, it no longer increases your swimming speed by 50%. It now increases your Max Magicka by 1/2/3%, and continues to restore 4/8/12% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina whenever you drink a potion.
•Quick to Mend: This passive ability now increases your healing done by 3/6/9%, instead of increasing your healing received by 3/6/9%.
•Restoration Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Amphibian.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your swimming speed by 50%.
No problems here.

•Breton Skills
•Light Armor Affinity: This passive ability has been renamed to “Opportunist.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your Alliance Points gained by 1%.
No extra AP to anyone just because they are a certain race or class. Just no.

•Dark Elf Skills
•Ambidexterity: This passive ability has been renamed to “Ashlander.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now reduces your damage taken from lava by 50%.
•Flame Talent: This passive ability has been renamed to “Destructive Ancestry.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your Frost and Shock Damage by 0/1/2%.
No problems here.

•High Elf Skills
•Destruction Talent: This passive ability has been renamed to “Highborn.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your experience gained by 1%.
This is completely worthless. Give them something else.


•Imperial Skills
•Shield Affinity: This passive ability has been renamed to “Diplomat.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your gold gained by 1%.
This is completely worthless. Give them something else besides gold.

•Khajiit Skills
•Medium Armor Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Cutpurse.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
•Robust Constitution: This passive ability has been renamed to “Nimble.” Also, it no longer increases your Health Recovery by 6/13/20%. It now increases your Max Stamina by 2/4/6% and continues to increase your Stamina Recovery by 3/6/10%.
Khajiits looking pretty good right now. Everyone will adopt a kitten!

•Nord Skills
•Two Handed Weapon Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Reveler.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases the duration of any consumed drink by 15 minutes.
•Robust: This passive ability has been renamed to “Stalwart.” It now increases your Health Recovery by 6/13/20%, down from 10/20/30% and your Max Stamina by 2/4/6%.
I think it should boost the effect of the drink and shorten its duration.

•Orc Skills
•Heavy Armor Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Craftsman.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your inspiration gains by 10%.
•Robust: This passive ability has been renamed to “Unflinching.” It now increases your Health Recovery by 6/13/20%, down from 10/20/30% and your healing received by 1/3/5%.
Inspiration gains is worthless. Give something else.

•Redguard Skills
•Shield Affinity: This passive ability has been renamed to “Wayfarer.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases the duration of any consumed food by 15 minutes.
Like nords with drinks. Increase potency of food and shorten duration.

•Wood Elf Skills
•Archery Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Acrobat.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now reduces your fall damage by 10%.
This is a real "who cares?" skill. Replace it with something else. They are small and fast. How about a dodge chance?

Please consider the above comments. I'm not the first to raise most of these issues.

Jalna

Orcs still the weakest as a tank or DPS

Akimbro

Giraffon wrote: »

My thoughts in bold:

Argonian Skills
•Amphibious: This passive ability has been renamed to “Resourceful.” Also, it no longer increases your swimming speed by 50%. It now increases your Max Magicka by 1/2/3%, and continues to restore 4/8/12% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina whenever you drink a potion.
•Quick to Mend: This passive ability now increases your healing done by 3/6/9%, instead of increasing your healing received by 3/6/9%.
•Restoration Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Amphibian.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your swimming speed by 50%.
No problems here.

•Breton Skills
•Light Armor Affinity: This passive ability has been renamed to “Opportunist.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your Alliance Points gained by 1%.
No extra AP to anyone just because they are a certain race or class. Just no.

•Dark Elf Skills
•Ambidexterity: This passive ability has been renamed to “Ashlander.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now reduces your damage taken from lava by 50%.
•Flame Talent: This passive ability has been renamed to “Destructive Ancestry.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your Frost and Shock Damage by 0/1/2%.
No problems here.

•High Elf Skills
•Destruction Talent: This passive ability has been renamed to “Highborn.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your experience gained by 1%.
This is completely worthless. Give them something else.


•Imperial Skills
•Shield Affinity: This passive ability has been renamed to “Diplomat.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your gold gained by 1%.
This is completely worthless. Give them something else besides gold.

•Khajiit Skills
•Medium Armor Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Cutpurse.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
•Robust Constitution: This passive ability has been renamed to “Nimble.” Also, it no longer increases your Health Recovery by 6/13/20%. It now increases your Max Stamina by 2/4/6% and continues to increase your Stamina Recovery by 3/6/10%.
Khajiits looking pretty good right now. Everyone will adopt a kitten!

•Nord Skills
•Two Handed Weapon Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Reveler.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases the duration of any consumed drink by 15 minutes.
•Robust: This passive ability has been renamed to “Stalwart.” It now increases your Health Recovery by 6/13/20%, down from 10/20/30% and your Max Stamina by 2/4/6%.
I think it should boost the effect of the drink and shorten its duration.

•Orc Skills
•Heavy Armor Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Craftsman.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your inspiration gains by 10%.
•Robust: This passive ability has been renamed to “Unflinching.” It now increases your Health Recovery by 6/13/20%, down from 10/20/30% and your healing received by 1/3/5%.
Inspiration gains is worthless. Give something else.

•Redguard Skills
•Shield Affinity: This passive ability has been renamed to “Wayfarer.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases the duration of any consumed food by 15 minutes.
Like nords with drinks. Increase potency of food and shorten duration.

•Wood Elf Skills
•Archery Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Acrobat.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now reduces your fall damage by 10%.
This is a real "who cares?" skill. Replace it with something else. They are small and fast. How about a dodge chance?

Please consider the above comments. I'm not the first to raise most of these issues.

Most of your complaints are about the "flavour" passives. These passives are inclusive of the free, first passive every race gets - similar to the weapon/armor experience boost. You don't put a skill point into these and they do not benefit anyone in combat (unless you're an Argonian in PVP trying to flee by swimming). They are indeed, meant to be "worthless".

rhapsodious

Yeah, the only one I disagree with is the 1% AP increase. The rest are supposed to be "who cares" skills meant to reference the lore behind the races - Altmer are learned, Imperials are shrewd, Nords are eternally drunk, so on and so forth.

Akimbro

rhapsodious wrote: »

Yeah, the only one I disagree with is the 1% AP increase. The rest are supposed to be "who cares" skills meant to reference the lore behind the races - Altmer are learned, Imperials are shrewd, Nords are eternally drunk, so on and so forth.

Thank you...lol

Someone gets it.

Arato

SoulKing32 wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

SoulKing32 wrote: »

Very disappointed with the Nord passives. They are the worst out of all races - the stamina bonus is nice but its not enough to make them competitive.

They're one of the best tank races if not the best.

The races that are really underwhelming are orc and bosmer, arguably breton.

The other races..

Best Magicka DPS: Altmer, Dunmer
Best Healer: Argonian, some may argue Breton
Best Stam DPS: Khajiit, Redguard
Best Tank: Imperial, Nord

I mean, sorry you looked at Nord's racials and somehow thought it'd make a good Stam or Magicka DPS and have been disappointed by the outcome of that decision, but its passives have always leaned more towards tank. Health bonus, health regen bonus, incoming damage reduction, and now a MODERATE stam bonus

None of those passives ever screamed DPS to me.

You seem to argue out of a PVE-perspective, which is fine of course. In PVP there is no reason why someone should pick a Nord apart from cosmetic preferences. The health regen bonus is worthless for most PVP-builds, the damage reduction looks nice on paper but - as others have stated in this thread - is barely noticeable. I dont demand that Nord become a good race for DPS, I simply want ZOS to reduce the huge gap between good races like Kahijit/Redguard and Nord.

Races are given bonuses that are tailored towards people filling roles. PVE has a tank role, so there needs to be some races that are better tanks.

There not being much reason to pick tank races for PVP? That's a problem with PVP, not the race.

I mean you're acting like me complaining that my heavy armor character with all their points in health has trouble killing people in PVP. Well no duh, those are things you pick for tanking, which is a PVE thing not a PVP thing.

You pick a race for either fitting your RP/aesthetic likes without caring about what passives they get, or you take a look at their passives, and pick a race that best suits the role you want to make.

You don't pick a race for aesthetics and then demand their passives be made to fit the role you want.

Solariken

I'm sure others have also pointed this out, but it's important that the non-combat racial passives continue to be useful throughout the entire existence of your character. I think you guys achieved this with most of the changes, but two are lacking in this regard:

Orc - instead of inspiration gains, perhaps an additional 1% chance to receive upgrade materials when refining?

Altmer - instead of experience gains, perhaps an additional % chance to receive runes when deconstructing glyphs?

Also, please give Breton's something other than an AP bonus. Maybe reduce the AP cost of PvP vendor items?

Nerouyn

Arato wrote: »

You don't pick a race for aesthetics and then demand their passives be made to fit the role you want.

You can in many / most online games. You can in the TES single-player games.

Speaking of those TES single-player games, the IP is well known for player freedom. No classes, unlimited character development, modding. Obviously modding would be difficult for an MMO but ESO shot itself in the foot with classes and racial bonuses.

There's plenty of room for min maxing with gear and CP. Race shouldn't matter. Especially for a game which prides itself on being socially progressive.

Silver_Strider

Footfalls wrote: »

Please, enlighten me where exactly in the lore are Argonians noted as being excellent healers?

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Proof pls?
Not that they have healers (any race has), but that they're better in that than other races.

I must be losing my mind because I could have sworn there was lore to back up my claim but I can no longer find the source material. I'll admit I might be wrong that Argonians are renowned healers but they do have some affinity for magic so there is at least some reasonable explanation for the extra magic we're receiving and at this point, I'm just happy to receive ANY buff we receive.

Minalan

Another vote here for buffing Breton passives:

I'd say exclusive or:
* 6% Magicka cost reduction (up from 3%). The current amount is lacking, it would let us stack more damage instead of cost reduction. While other races with more regen and damage have to stack more cost reduction instead of damage.

This is on par with the regen bonuses given to our elven cousins.

* 3% extra spell damage (new). It would fit, we're the *** children of the Direnni after all.

PlagueMonk

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Footfalls wrote: »

Please, enlighten me where exactly in the lore are Argonians noted as being excellent healers?

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Proof pls?
Not that they have healers (any race has), but that they're better in that than other races.

I must be losing my mind because I could have sworn there was lore to back up my claim but I can no longer find the source material. I'll admit I might be wrong that Argonians are renowned healers but they do have some affinity for magic so there is at least some reasonable explanation for the extra magic we're receiving and at this point, I'm just happy to receive ANY buff we receive.

But that's mine and many others point........while we do get a tiny magicka buff, unless we are healers we all get an across the board NERF (especially in group situations). Losing a pretty universal bonus (not the best even then but it's what we were given) in trade for a pigeon hole ability we cant take advantage of unless we heal is not a bonus.

I could continue and ask things like WHY ONE EARTH we are still the only race tied to a consumable (so no consumable no bonus, and it costs resources / gold to get that bonus) why the renown Shadowscales are not represented (even though ESO;s description of Argonians falsely advertizes it, the DB is out and the next patch is going to focus on us), bah I am so fed up with Zenimax's ******** decisions.

Cuddler

Nerfing Orc and Nord's health recovery bonus is a mistake. Nord's change is especially bad since all of their racial bonuses are oriented towards tanking.

Arato

Nerouyn wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

You don't pick a race for aesthetics and then demand their passives be made to fit the role you want.

You can in many / most online games. You can in the TES single-player games.

Speaking of those TES single-player games, the IP is well known for player freedom. No classes, unlimited character development, modding. Obviously modding would be difficult for an MMO but ESO shot itself in the foot with classes and racial bonuses.

There's plenty of room for min maxing with gear and CP. Race shouldn't matter. Especially for a game which prides itself on being socially progressive.

Oh really, cause I happen to remember in Morrowind if you picked like, Redguard Mage, you were going to have a miserable time, because you would fail every spell you tried to cast.

Silver_Strider

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Footfalls wrote: »

Please, enlighten me where exactly in the lore are Argonians noted as being excellent healers?

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Proof pls?
Not that they have healers (any race has), but that they're better in that than other races.

I must be losing my mind because I could have sworn there was lore to back up my claim but I can no longer find the source material. I'll admit I might be wrong that Argonians are renowned healers but they do have some affinity for magic so there is at least some reasonable explanation for the extra magic we're receiving and at this point, I'm just happy to receive ANY buff we receive.

But that's mine and many others point........while we do get a tiny magicka buff, unless we are healers we all get an across the board NERF (especially in group situations). Losing a pretty universal bonus (not the best even then but it's what we were given) in trade for a pigeon hole ability we cant take advantage of unless we heal is not a bonus.

I could continue and ask things like WHY ONE EARTH we are still the only race tied to a consumable (so no consumable no bonus, and it costs resources / gold to get that bonus) why the renown Shadowscales are not represented (even though ESO;s description of Argonians falsely advertizes it, the DB is out and the next patch is going to focus on us), bah I am so fed up with Zenimax's ******** decisions.

Honestly speak, how much of a nerf is it really?
Let me give you an example. My Argonian Templar is probably the outright WORST Templar in ESO. Restostaff and Light Armor aren't maxed level and with food, I only have 30k max magic, and 1980 Spell Damage
Without either Major Mending or Major Sorcery, My BoL can heal for, on average, for 14k, with 16k crits
With Major Mending, I heal for 18k with 21-22k crits
With Major Mending + Sorcery, I heal for 20-21k and crit for 25k

I am overhealing already with my p*** poor excuse of a Templar as is. That 9% extra healing you are receiving is not helping me keep you alive, at all. Any other Templar that has even remotely better stats than me is healing you WAY more than I am and you are no different from the majority of DPS that sit at about 20k health at the best of times. The only people that might miss the extra healing received are Tanks but it would still take at least 2 BoLs from me to heal them for 40k health, which is well above average for most tanks that sit at maybe 35k at most. So really what is the nerf for group content?

The absolute only thing that might hurt is that potions may no longer get the benefit of that 9% extra healing but a potion wouldn't heal you for more than 10-11k on an Argonian DPS character and 9% of that is only ~900 extra health, which isn't going to make THAT much of a difference honestly. Your other self heals shouldn't be affected much if at all really.

PlagueMonk

Silver_Strider wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Footfalls wrote: »

Please, enlighten me where exactly in the lore are Argonians noted as being excellent healers?

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Proof pls?
Not that they have healers (any race has), but that they're better in that than other races.

I must be losing my mind because I could have sworn there was lore to back up my claim but I can no longer find the source material. I'll admit I might be wrong that Argonians are renowned healers but they do have some affinity for magic so there is at least some reasonable explanation for the extra magic we're receiving and at this point, I'm just happy to receive ANY buff we receive.

But that's mine and many others point........while we do get a tiny magicka buff, unless we are healers we all get an across the board NERF (especially in group situations). Losing a pretty universal bonus (not the best even then but it's what we were given) in trade for a pigeon hole ability we cant take advantage of unless we heal is not a bonus.

I could continue and ask things like WHY ONE EARTH we are still the only race tied to a consumable (so no consumable no bonus, and it costs resources / gold to get that bonus) why the renown Shadowscales are not represented (even though ESO;s description of Argonians falsely advertizes it, the DB is out and the next patch is going to focus on us), bah I am so fed up with Zenimax's ******** decisions.

Honestly speak, how much of a nerf is it really?
Let me give you an example. My Argonian Templar is probably the outright WORST Templar in ESO. Restostaff and Light Armor aren't maxed level and with food, I only have 30k max magic, and 1980 Spell Damage
Without either Major Mending or Major Sorcery, My BoL can heal for, on average, for 14k, with 16k crits
With Major Mending, I heal for 18k with 21-22k crits
With Major Mending + Sorcery, I heal for 20-21k and crit for 25k

I am overhealing already with my p*** poor excuse of a Templar as is. That 9% extra healing you are receiving is not helping me keep you alive, at all. Any other Templar that has even remotely better stats than me is healing you WAY more than I am and you are no different from the majority of DPS that sit at about 20k health at the best of times. The only people that might miss the extra healing received are Tanks but it would still take at least 2 BoLs from me to heal them for 40k health, which is well above average for most tanks that sit at maybe 35k at most. So really what is the nerf for group content?

The absolute only thing that might hurt is that potions may no longer get the benefit of that 9% extra healing but a potion wouldn't heal you for more than 10-11k on an Argonian DPS character and 9% of that is only ~900 extra health, which isn't going to make THAT much of a difference honestly. Your other self heals shouldn't be affected much if at all really.

How much of a nerf is it? Honestly not huge because healing received isn't that great of a passive but it's all we've got. It's our one "good" passive and it's being removed. Now if we had say +10% magicka and THAT was replaced with 9% better healing......THAT would be a huge nerf.

Also you are not really making your case because if you are over healing as it is, then 9% more isn't going to do ANYONE any good whereas the healing received does help all Argonians to an extent as does the potion passive. I would rather have something that can potentially benefit all rather than an ability that only helps one player type (that wont even help them)

of course I would rather RATHER ditch both the silly potion passive and healing received and give us a better bonus like a real direct resource/regen boost (which most other races have and 3% I consider trivial and kind of insulting), crit, extra damage, something truly good.