Official Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Balance

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

As you are probably well aware, the Argonian healer community is quite happy with you today ZOS. Thanks.

Unfortunately the Argonian tank community are far from happy.

The um, Argonian NB community are on the outraged side as well. (and for good reason)

If you are not an Argonian healer come this patch you will get a HUGE assed nerf.

Well as far as I know, the race wasn't very well suited to stam dps, never has been suited to stam or magicka DPS, it was suited for tank

Used to be:
Increased swim speed 50% & Increased potion effects 30% (so increased healing from Tripots, increased duration of effects for other pots like invis)
Increased disease resistance & 1/2/3% increased health (not much but at the time you could soft cap health anyway)
Increased incoming healing 6%.

First big sweeping change was they changed how the stats all worked and removed softcaps. Suddenly a 3% health boost was vastly inferior to a 9-12% health boost, and Nord's passive was 6% reduced damage rather than 250 extra armor (which people were soft capped on just by wearing heavy armor), it bypassed armor mitigation diminishing returns, so now that was attractive. At the same time, they nerfed our potion passive to a weaker form of what it is now.

People got angry, demanded changes, so we got what we have now, a better health boost, a stronger incoming heal boost, the potion bonus is a bit better. For awhile, things were good.

Then @Wrobel comes along and jacks it all up again.

Suited for a tank? I defy you to find a single guide that would recommend an Argonian tank over all of the other available races. The grim fact is, they aren't the best tank either (although they are more suited to tank than most of the other choices). The even grimmer fact is, an Argonian does not top the list for playing ANY class or style.

They were pretty good initially as a NB because of the nice potion synergy the NB class HAD with the nice racial passive. Well once they removed that NB bonus things went downhill for the Argonian NB.

I also don't know why you are trying to make some odd case that your tank is somehow hurt more than other Non-healer Argonians. Instead of trying to show you are more crippled, you should just be outraged for ALL the non-healer Argonians. This hurts most of us to lose our one decent passive that benefited EVERYONE. If these changes go through, if I don't heal you lose that racial passive which is just a stupid bad idea imho.

You do make a good point here, for trials and such people aren't going to want you to be healing if you're dps-ing (unless of course you're a nightblade mage, in which case your sap and siphon might be helpful in that arena).

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

As you are probably well aware, the Argonian healer community is quite happy with you today ZOS. Thanks.

Unfortunately the Argonian tank community are far from happy.

The um, Argonian NB community are on the outraged side as well. (and for good reason)

If you are not an Argonian healer come this patch you will get a HUGE assed nerf.

I'll be honest, I kind of gave up caring. I like my character's concept as a Shadowscale, and changing race would just feel so wrong. My intent is to just make the best shadowscale that I can.

Akimbro · June 2016

SilentFox22 wrote: »

NORD (suggested passives)
Inc dmg with 2H

Dmg mit - bump up to 10%

Inc max Sta or Sta regen or decrease cost of Sta abilities by x

Inc max Hp

I don't think you understand what's going on with passives. Every race has a "flavour" or "free" passive like the increased experience gained from X. The ones like fall damage etc. that you and others have been deeming "useless" is supposed to be just that. There's no benefit for them in combat, just for lore. Idk why you think you can get 4 passives for combat, where every race has 3 passives for combat.

Akimbro · June 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

What do you think about the changes?

I think the changes overall are better, but is far from balanced. Not only between magicka/stamina specific races, but also the bonuses for each side. For example, Khajiits, a popular race for stamina DD, has the passive for weapon crit. However, there's no comparable passive for spell crit.

Now, I'm no lore-junky or lore expert by any means, but some of these passives don't exactly follow the lore for their races. Dunmer are known for their stealthiness and mastery of destruction magic. Why do they have such a huge increase for fire damage, and not all three elements?

Also, with changes that came with Dark Brotherhood to certain skills and their stamina version morphs, there is a lack of passives for physical, poison, and disease damage. The poison damage would fit perfectly for the Bosmer, and physical damage for the Orcs.

And as many have been asking, there is no racial passive for magic damage either. Every class has skills that deal magic damage, and Nightblades and Tempalrs rely heavily on magic damage. For purposes of lore, either Altmer needs to be changed to have magic damage, or they need to have spell crit.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Are there any that you feel are too strong compared to the others? Too weak?

As many have been saying, Khajiit is now the only logical choice for a stamina DD. I'm not saying they should be nerfed to hell, just that it isn't exactly balanced. There is also no magicka-based race that is similar to the Khajiit where, as stated above, has a spell crit passive.

There are also several other passives that are extremely underwhelming and can be changed to better fit the lore and rebalance the races.

Parrotbrain · June 2016

Why not give Nords a magicka/ spell damage buff? The greatest human mage in the history of Tamriel was a Nord (Shalidor) so this wouldn't exactly be lore breaking. Nord magicka sorcs need some love!

L2Pissue · June 2016

khajiit new racial buff is not necessary, it should have been to bosmer instead.. since i started playing ESO years ago and until this moment, bosmer remains as the most useless stamina DD class whilst khajiit is best. now khajiit is superior.

second choice will be basically, buffing all the racial passives except that of khajiit.

sending current racials to live will basically make the game "elder khajiits online"

Van_0S · June 2016

Nord's: 4% healing taken.
Breton: 4% ultimate gain.
Dunmer: 4% increase duration of DoT damage based on fire.
Bosmer: 4% increase armor and spell penetration or increase attack damage speed or reduce cost of dodgeroll.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel

KochDerDamonen · June 2016

Would have preferred something like not having max magicka and instead keeping healing received along with healing done on argonian.

Jar_Ek · June 2016

Funny thing about Argonian quick to mend passive is that it worked with all incoming heals and hence actually helped dps as well as tanks - esp in group play (pve and pvp). It also supported any and all self healing (barring health regeneration).

The changed version only helps healers and supports some self healing (not potions for example).

This is simply a nerf and should not go forward as it stands. I suggest that the max magicka is changed to affect both stamina and magicka and quick to mend gets a 3% healing done added.

Also swim speed does not in any way equate to the same level of usefulness of any other flavour passive... even reduced lava damage has a greater impact on gameplay.

Arato · June 2016

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

As you are probably well aware, the Argonian healer community is quite happy with you today ZOS. Thanks.

Unfortunately the Argonian tank community are far from happy.

The um, Argonian NB community are on the outraged side as well. (and for good reason)

If you are not an Argonian healer come this patch you will get a HUGE assed nerf.

Well as far as I know, the race wasn't very well suited to stam dps, never has been suited to stam or magicka DPS, it was suited for tank

Used to be:
Increased swim speed 50% & Increased potion effects 30% (so increased healing from Tripots, increased duration of effects for other pots like invis)
Increased disease resistance & 1/2/3% increased health (not much but at the time you could soft cap health anyway)
Increased incoming healing 6%.

First big sweeping change was they changed how the stats all worked and removed softcaps. Suddenly a 3% health boost was vastly inferior to a 9-12% health boost, and Nord's passive was 6% reduced damage rather than 250 extra armor (which people were soft capped on just by wearing heavy armor), it bypassed armor mitigation diminishing returns, so now that was attractive. At the same time, they nerfed our potion passive to a weaker form of what it is now.

People got angry, demanded changes, so we got what we have now, a better health boost, a stronger incoming heal boost, the potion bonus is a bit better. For awhile, things were good.

Then @Wrobel comes along and jacks it all up again.

Suited for a tank? I defy you to find a single guide that would recommend an Argonian tank over all of the other available races. The grim fact is, they aren't the best tank either (although they are more suited to tank than most of the other choices). The even grimmer fact is, an Argonian does not top the list for playing ANY class or style.

They were pretty good initially as a NB because of the nice potion synergy the NB class HAD with the nice racial passive. Well once they removed that NB bonus things went downhill for the Argonian NB.

I also don't know why you are trying to make some odd case that your tank is somehow hurt more than other Non-healer Argonians. Instead of trying to show you are more crippled, you should just be outraged for ALL the non-healer Argonians. This hurts most of us to lose our one decent passive that benefited EVERYONE. If these changes go through, if I don't heal you lose that racial passive which is just a stupid bad idea imho.

It was more understated because the more obvious tank choices were imperial and nord, always. Basically, people are dumb, they see "resto staff specialization" and their first thought is "oh, it's supposed to be good for healers"

But for NB's.. I never would have seen Argonian as a first choice race, no stam bonus, no bonuses that help with damage or stealth, not even a magicka bonus for magiblades. Redguard, Khajiit, Bosmer were always going to be better stamblades and Altmer, Dunmer, and Breton better magiblades.

Junkogen · June 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

As you are probably well aware, the Argonian healer community is quite happy with you today ZOS. Thanks.

Unfortunately the Argonian tank community are far from happy.

The um, Argonian NB community are on the outraged side as well. (and for good reason)

If you are not an Argonian healer come this patch you will get a HUGE assed nerf.

I'll be honest, I kind of gave up caring. I like my character's concept as a Shadowscale, and changing race would just feel so wrong. My intent is to just make the best shadowscale that I can.

Yeah, I don't know why ZOS heavily promotes Shadowscales with DLC and storylines, but then doesn't allow us to actually play one through character design. They keep changing the Argonian passives to be anything but suited for a Shadowscale playstyle. The closest they ever were was at launch. Then they changed all the game systems which then made them tanks and now healers. It's just irritating.

Arato · June 2016

Parrotbrain wrote: »

Why not give Nords a magicka/ spell damage buff? The greatest human mage in the history of Tamriel was a Nord (Shalidor) so this wouldn't exactly be lore breaking. Nord magicka sorcs need some love!

Shalidor being the best mage was not due to him being a nord though, mage is an atypical archetype for Nords, most distrust magic, same as redguards.

It would not be suitable for Nord, Orc, or Redguard to have any kind of magicka bonus or spellcasting bonus.

Just as it would not be suitable for Bretons or Altmer to have any kind of stamina bonus or physical damage bonus.

Races that have always been seen as kind of hybrids capable of doing either are Argonian, Dunmer, Imperial

Khajiit weren't known to be mages all that often but neither were they particularly biased against magicka, so it wasn't common, but it wasn't exceptionally rare either, Bosmer were similar in this regard. They didn't distrust magicka, but they didn't specialize in it either.

Lorewise it'd make most sense for:

Warriors/Tanks: Orc, Nord, Imperial (which I guess is what's happening but Orc needs a stronger health bonus and I'd say stronger incoming healing bonus, currently they're a weaker version of Argonian prior to these changes)
Mages: Altmer (offensive), Breton (defensive/support)
Thieves/Physical DD: Redguard, Khajiit, Bosmer

Hybrid: Dunmer, Argonian

Dunmer I think is doing the hybrid thing okay, though it is a little leaning towards Magicka but I think they always did lean a little bit towards magic (though they used short blades as a major skill)

Argonian you may as well bite the bullet and complete your ritual of flipping off everyone who ever made an Argonian tank and take away their health bonus and make it a stam bonus instead, just give us all a free race/name change.

Jar_Ek · June 2016

Tbh the biggest issue with racials is that they are so inconsistent. Some races are obviously good at one thing (ie Altmer, Redguard) whereas others languish in a hybrid hell where they simply arent good at anything (ie Argonian). Hybridisation was fine at launch but died when soft caps were removed making hybrid races very poor "choices".

I am guessing the zos logic behind the current set of racial changes is to address this and give every race a role, but tbh its a bit too late after 2 years... and I'm not connvinced by the zos role pidgeon holes and how that maps to lore or the "play as you want" ethos.

Van_0S · June 2016

Arato wrote: »

Parrotbrain wrote: »

Why not give Nords a magicka/ spell damage buff? The greatest human mage in the history of Tamriel was a Nord (Shalidor) so this wouldn't exactly be lore breaking. Nord magicka sorcs need some love!

Shalidor being the best mage was not due to him being a nord though, mage is an atypical archetype for Nords, most distrust magic, same as redguards.

It would not be suitable for Nord, Orc, or Redguard to have any kind of magicka bonus or spellcasting bonus.

Just as it would not be suitable for Bretons or Altmer to have any kind of stamina bonus or physical damage bonus.

Races that have always been seen as kind of hybrids capable of doing either are Argonian, Dunmer, Imperial

Khajiit weren't known to be mages all that often but neither were they particularly biased against magicka, so it wasn't common, but it wasn't exceptionally rare either, Bosmer were similar in this regard. They didn't distrust magicka, but they didn't specialize in it either.

Lorewise it'd make most sense for:

Warriors/Tanks: Orc, Nord, Imperial (which I guess is what's happening but Orc needs a stronger health bonus and I'd say stronger incoming healing bonus, currently they're a weaker version of Argonian prior to these changes)
Mages: Altmer (offensive), Breton (defensive/support)
Thieves/Physical DD: Redguard, Khajiit, Bosmer

Hybrid: Dunmer, Argonian

Dunmer I think is doing the hybrid thing okay, though it is a little leaning towards Magicka but I think they always did lean a little bit towards magic (though they used short blades as a major skill)

Argonian you may as well bite the bullet and complete your ritual of flipping off everyone who ever made an Argonian tank and take away their health bonus and make it a stam bonus instead, just give us all a free race/name change.

Lore wise, Redguard are warriors not thief's.

Khajiit are thief's but bosmer is second to thievery and are more towards everything but are not conquerors.

Arato · June 2016

Van_0S wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Parrotbrain wrote: »

Why not give Nords a magicka/ spell damage buff? The greatest human mage in the history of Tamriel was a Nord (Shalidor) so this wouldn't exactly be lore breaking. Nord magicka sorcs need some love!

Shalidor being the best mage was not due to him being a nord though, mage is an atypical archetype for Nords, most distrust magic, same as redguards.

It would not be suitable for Nord, Orc, or Redguard to have any kind of magicka bonus or spellcasting bonus.

Just as it would not be suitable for Bretons or Altmer to have any kind of stamina bonus or physical damage bonus.

Races that have always been seen as kind of hybrids capable of doing either are Argonian, Dunmer, Imperial

Khajiit weren't known to be mages all that often but neither were they particularly biased against magicka, so it wasn't common, but it wasn't exceptionally rare either, Bosmer were similar in this regard. They didn't distrust magicka, but they didn't specialize in it either.

Lorewise it'd make most sense for:

Warriors/Tanks: Orc, Nord, Imperial (which I guess is what's happening but Orc needs a stronger health bonus and I'd say stronger incoming healing bonus, currently they're a weaker version of Argonian prior to these changes)
Mages: Altmer (offensive), Breton (defensive/support)
Thieves/Physical DD: Redguard, Khajiit, Bosmer

Hybrid: Dunmer, Argonian

Dunmer I think is doing the hybrid thing okay, though it is a little leaning towards Magicka but I think they always did lean a little bit towards magic (though they used short blades as a major skill)

Argonian you may as well bite the bullet and complete your ritual of flipping off everyone who ever made an Argonian tank and take away their health bonus and make it a stam bonus instead, just give us all a free race/name change.

Lore wise, Redguard are warriors not thief's.

Khajiit are thief's but bosmer is second to thievery and are more towards everything but are not conquerors.

Obviously my Warrior/Mage/Thief constellation reference went over your head.

Redguards aren't really tanks and were never intended to be tanks is why I put them as thieves rather than warriors. Warriors were for the tank inclined races.

Medieval_Miss81 · June 2016

Arato wrote: »

If you boost dark elf frost and shock damage to 1/2/3%, please boost altmer elemental damage to 1/3/5% I mean, otherwise, as it is, dunmer get 7% to fire, to have altmers only beating them out by 1% on shock and frost makes dunmer a clearly superior choice for magicka builds.

if Altmer do 5% more on all elements, but Dunmer do 3% on shock/frost and 7% on fire, well, it's more situational. Both would make good fire sorcerers, Dunmer clearly better pyromancer DK's, Altmer better shock sorcerers

At the beginning, Altmers had a higher elemental damage passive, but this was reduced ostensibly because Dunmers only had fire, so they should have a higher fire damage percent than Altmers. Now, if you are going to add other elements to Dunmer racials, then you should boost the Altmer elemental passive as well to keep that differential.

SilentFox22 · June 2016

Akimbro wrote: »

SilentFox22 wrote: »

NORD (suggested passives)
Inc dmg with 2H

Dmg mit - bump up to 10%

Inc max Sta or Sta regen or decrease cost of Sta abilities by x

Inc max Hp

I don't think you understand what's going on with passives. Every race has a "flavour" or "free" passive like the increased experience gained from X. The ones like fall damage etc. that you and others have been deeming "useless" is supposed to be just that. There's no benefit for them in combat, just for lore. Idk why you think you can get 4 passives for combat, where every race has 3 passives for combat.

Thank you for being constructive with your criticism. : )

Ideally, I'd really like to see all passives become useless flavor traits so it won't matter what race you choose. I'd also like to see all class abilities removed and mainstreamed for any class/race combination. Would keeping classes in place with appropriate themed passives, but removing class abilities be as difficult as removing classes altogether? If class abilities were more mainstreamed, would that not itself minimize the need for so much class balancing for the developer? I feel like popular builds would create counter-popular builds would create counter builds to that and so on more naturally - with players themselves maintaining a balance, leaving ZoS to focus more on bug fixes, new content and such. (A gal can dream)

Van_0S · June 2016

Arato wrote: »

Van_0S wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Parrotbrain wrote: »

Why not give Nords a magicka/ spell damage buff? The greatest human mage in the history of Tamriel was a Nord (Shalidor) so this wouldn't exactly be lore breaking. Nord magicka sorcs need some love!

Shalidor being the best mage was not due to him being a nord though, mage is an atypical archetype for Nords, most distrust magic, same as redguards.

It would not be suitable for Nord, Orc, or Redguard to have any kind of magicka bonus or spellcasting bonus.

Just as it would not be suitable for Bretons or Altmer to have any kind of stamina bonus or physical damage bonus.

Races that have always been seen as kind of hybrids capable of doing either are Argonian, Dunmer, Imperial

Khajiit weren't known to be mages all that often but neither were they particularly biased against magicka, so it wasn't common, but it wasn't exceptionally rare either, Bosmer were similar in this regard. They didn't distrust magicka, but they didn't specialize in it either.

Lorewise it'd make most sense for:

Warriors/Tanks: Orc, Nord, Imperial (which I guess is what's happening but Orc needs a stronger health bonus and I'd say stronger incoming healing bonus, currently they're a weaker version of Argonian prior to these changes)
Mages: Altmer (offensive), Breton (defensive/support)
Thieves/Physical DD: Redguard, Khajiit, Bosmer

Hybrid: Dunmer, Argonian

Dunmer I think is doing the hybrid thing okay, though it is a little leaning towards Magicka but I think they always did lean a little bit towards magic (though they used short blades as a major skill)

Argonian you may as well bite the bullet and complete your ritual of flipping off everyone who ever made an Argonian tank and take away their health bonus and make it a stam bonus instead, just give us all a free race/name change.

Lore wise, Redguard are warriors not thief's.

Khajiit are thief's but bosmer is second to thievery and are more towards everything but are not conquerors.

Obviously my Warrior/Mage/Thief constellation reference went over your head.

Redguards aren't really tanks and were never intended to be tanks is why I put them as thieves rather than warriors. Warriors were for the tank inclined races.

You mentioned about lore. So ,here their is proof!

https://youtu.be/isabR1KTb-Q

Redguard are born warriors based on the lore. In ESO you can put that in a frying pan and cook it ,for all I care!!!

Arato · June 2016

Van_0S wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Van_0S wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Parrotbrain wrote: »

Why not give Nords a magicka/ spell damage buff? The greatest human mage in the history of Tamriel was a Nord (Shalidor) so this wouldn't exactly be lore breaking. Nord magicka sorcs need some love!

Shalidor being the best mage was not due to him being a nord though, mage is an atypical archetype for Nords, most distrust magic, same as redguards.

It would not be suitable for Nord, Orc, or Redguard to have any kind of magicka bonus or spellcasting bonus.

Just as it would not be suitable for Bretons or Altmer to have any kind of stamina bonus or physical damage bonus.

Races that have always been seen as kind of hybrids capable of doing either are Argonian, Dunmer, Imperial

Khajiit weren't known to be mages all that often but neither were they particularly biased against magicka, so it wasn't common, but it wasn't exceptionally rare either, Bosmer were similar in this regard. They didn't distrust magicka, but they didn't specialize in it either.

Lorewise it'd make most sense for:

Warriors/Tanks: Orc, Nord, Imperial (which I guess is what's happening but Orc needs a stronger health bonus and I'd say stronger incoming healing bonus, currently they're a weaker version of Argonian prior to these changes)
Mages: Altmer (offensive), Breton (defensive/support)
Thieves/Physical DD: Redguard, Khajiit, Bosmer

Hybrid: Dunmer, Argonian

Dunmer I think is doing the hybrid thing okay, though it is a little leaning towards Magicka but I think they always did lean a little bit towards magic (though they used short blades as a major skill)

Argonian you may as well bite the bullet and complete your ritual of flipping off everyone who ever made an Argonian tank and take away their health bonus and make it a stam bonus instead, just give us all a free race/name change.

Lore wise, Redguard are warriors not thief's.

Khajiit are thief's but bosmer is second to thievery and are more towards everything but are not conquerors.

Obviously my Warrior/Mage/Thief constellation reference went over your head.

Redguards aren't really tanks and were never intended to be tanks is why I put them as thieves rather than warriors. Warriors were for the tank inclined races.

You mentioned about lore. So ,here their is proof!
https://youtu.be/isabR1KTb-Q

Redguard are born warriors based on the lore. In ESO you can put that in a frying pan and cook it ,for all I care!!!

There are no tanks in single player games so both thieves and warriors are physical DD.

In an MMO, warriors are usually tanks.

Medieval_Miss81 · June 2016

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Destructive Ancestry and Elemental Talent maybe they should be identical opposites?

Destructive Ancestry: 2/4/6% Fire damage and 1/2/3% Frost and Shock damage.
Elemental Talent: 2/4/6% Shock damage and 1/2/3% Fire and Frost damage.

Please no!

Van_0S · June 2016

Arato wrote: »

Van_0S wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Van_0S wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Parrotbrain wrote: »

Why not give Nords a magicka/ spell damage buff? The greatest human mage in the history of Tamriel was a Nord (Shalidor) so this wouldn't exactly be lore breaking. Nord magicka sorcs need some love!

Shalidor being the best mage was not due to him being a nord though, mage is an atypical archetype for Nords, most distrust magic, same as redguards.

It would not be suitable for Nord, Orc, or Redguard to have any kind of magicka bonus or spellcasting bonus.

Just as it would not be suitable for Bretons or Altmer to have any kind of stamina bonus or physical damage bonus.

Races that have always been seen as kind of hybrids capable of doing either are Argonian, Dunmer, Imperial

Khajiit weren't known to be mages all that often but neither were they particularly biased against magicka, so it wasn't common, but it wasn't exceptionally rare either, Bosmer were similar in this regard. They didn't distrust magicka, but they didn't specialize in it either.

Lorewise it'd make most sense for:

Warriors/Tanks: Orc, Nord, Imperial (which I guess is what's happening but Orc needs a stronger health bonus and I'd say stronger incoming healing bonus, currently they're a weaker version of Argonian prior to these changes)
Mages: Altmer (offensive), Breton (defensive/support)
Thieves/Physical DD: Redguard, Khajiit, Bosmer

Hybrid: Dunmer, Argonian

Dunmer I think is doing the hybrid thing okay, though it is a little leaning towards Magicka but I think they always did lean a little bit towards magic (though they used short blades as a major skill)

Argonian you may as well bite the bullet and complete your ritual of flipping off everyone who ever made an Argonian tank and take away their health bonus and make it a stam bonus instead, just give us all a free race/name change.

Lore wise, Redguard are warriors not thief's.

Khajiit are thief's but bosmer is second to thievery and are more towards everything but are not conquerors.

Obviously my Warrior/Mage/Thief constellation reference went over your head.

Redguards aren't really tanks and were never intended to be tanks is why I put them as thieves rather than warriors. Warriors were for the tank inclined races.

You mentioned about lore. So ,here their is proof!
https://youtu.be/isabR1KTb-Q

Redguard are born warriors based on the lore. In ESO you can put that in a frying pan and cook it ,for all I care!!!

There are no tanks in single player games so both thieves and warriors are physical DD.

In an MMO, warriors are usually tanks.

That's up to you to decided but according to the lore redguards are warriors.

Lastly, warriors are both tanks and DPS( a 50/50 ratio), not just tanks!

LadyNalcarya · June 2016

Arato wrote: »

Van_0S wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Van_0S wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Parrotbrain wrote: »

Why not give Nords a magicka/ spell damage buff? The greatest human mage in the history of Tamriel was a Nord (Shalidor) so this wouldn't exactly be lore breaking. Nord magicka sorcs need some love!

Shalidor being the best mage was not due to him being a nord though, mage is an atypical archetype for Nords, most distrust magic, same as redguards.

It would not be suitable for Nord, Orc, or Redguard to have any kind of magicka bonus or spellcasting bonus.

Just as it would not be suitable for Bretons or Altmer to have any kind of stamina bonus or physical damage bonus.

Races that have always been seen as kind of hybrids capable of doing either are Argonian, Dunmer, Imperial

Khajiit weren't known to be mages all that often but neither were they particularly biased against magicka, so it wasn't common, but it wasn't exceptionally rare either, Bosmer were similar in this regard. They didn't distrust magicka, but they didn't specialize in it either.

Lorewise it'd make most sense for:

Warriors/Tanks: Orc, Nord, Imperial (which I guess is what's happening but Orc needs a stronger health bonus and I'd say stronger incoming healing bonus, currently they're a weaker version of Argonian prior to these changes)
Mages: Altmer (offensive), Breton (defensive/support)
Thieves/Physical DD: Redguard, Khajiit, Bosmer

Hybrid: Dunmer, Argonian

Dunmer I think is doing the hybrid thing okay, though it is a little leaning towards Magicka but I think they always did lean a little bit towards magic (though they used short blades as a major skill)

Argonian you may as well bite the bullet and complete your ritual of flipping off everyone who ever made an Argonian tank and take away their health bonus and make it a stam bonus instead, just give us all a free race/name change.

Lore wise, Redguard are warriors not thief's.

Khajiit are thief's but bosmer is second to thievery and are more towards everything but are not conquerors.

Obviously my Warrior/Mage/Thief constellation reference went over your head.

Redguards aren't really tanks and were never intended to be tanks is why I put them as thieves rather than warriors. Warriors were for the tank inclined races.

You mentioned about lore. So ,here their is proof!
https://youtu.be/isabR1KTb-Q

Redguard are born warriors based on the lore. In ESO you can put that in a frying pan and cook it ,for all I care!!!

There are no tanks in single player games so both thieves and warriors are physical DD.

In an MMO, warriors are usually tanks.

Redguards make good tanks though.
I tank on my redguard dk without any problems, I've got 31k hp and 30k stamina with capped resists, and adrenaline rush passive procs on taunts and low slash.

Arato · June 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Van_0S wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Van_0S wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Parrotbrain wrote: »

Why not give Nords a magicka/ spell damage buff? The greatest human mage in the history of Tamriel was a Nord (Shalidor) so this wouldn't exactly be lore breaking. Nord magicka sorcs need some love!

Shalidor being the best mage was not due to him being a nord though, mage is an atypical archetype for Nords, most distrust magic, same as redguards.

It would not be suitable for Nord, Orc, or Redguard to have any kind of magicka bonus or spellcasting bonus.

Just as it would not be suitable for Bretons or Altmer to have any kind of stamina bonus or physical damage bonus.

Races that have always been seen as kind of hybrids capable of doing either are Argonian, Dunmer, Imperial

Khajiit weren't known to be mages all that often but neither were they particularly biased against magicka, so it wasn't common, but it wasn't exceptionally rare either, Bosmer were similar in this regard. They didn't distrust magicka, but they didn't specialize in it either.

Lorewise it'd make most sense for:

Warriors/Tanks: Orc, Nord, Imperial (which I guess is what's happening but Orc needs a stronger health bonus and I'd say stronger incoming healing bonus, currently they're a weaker version of Argonian prior to these changes)
Mages: Altmer (offensive), Breton (defensive/support)
Thieves/Physical DD: Redguard, Khajiit, Bosmer

Hybrid: Dunmer, Argonian

Dunmer I think is doing the hybrid thing okay, though it is a little leaning towards Magicka but I think they always did lean a little bit towards magic (though they used short blades as a major skill)

Argonian you may as well bite the bullet and complete your ritual of flipping off everyone who ever made an Argonian tank and take away their health bonus and make it a stam bonus instead, just give us all a free race/name change.

Lore wise, Redguard are warriors not thief's.

Khajiit are thief's but bosmer is second to thievery and are more towards everything but are not conquerors.

Obviously my Warrior/Mage/Thief constellation reference went over your head.

Redguards aren't really tanks and were never intended to be tanks is why I put them as thieves rather than warriors. Warriors were for the tank inclined races.

You mentioned about lore. So ,here their is proof!
https://youtu.be/isabR1KTb-Q

Redguard are born warriors based on the lore. In ESO you can put that in a frying pan and cook it ,for all I care!!!

There are no tanks in single player games so both thieves and warriors are physical DD.

In an MMO, warriors are usually tanks.

Redguards make good tanks though.
I tank on my redguard dk without any problems, I've got 31k hp and 30k stamina with capped resists, and adrenaline rush passive procs on taunts and low slash.

Sigh, you can say that on virtually every race in the game that they can make effective tanks, just like you can claim virtually every race can make good magicka or stamina dps.

But Redguards don't have anything that particularly enhances their EHP, which is pretty much what makes some races better at tanking than others, having higher EHP. Either through taking less damage, being more efficient to heal, or having larger health pools.

Parrotbrain · June 2016

I feel they should let each character choose from different background stories for their race that give slight customization options for the said race...like for a nord magicka build there would for example be a winterhold college or shalidor's legacy or priest background that replaces the 2H weapon proficiency with a staff proficiency and the stamina bonuses with magicka bonuses, the rest remaining the same. This can be done for all races so that a character of any race can at least lean towards a stat of the player's choice.

This would be in line with TES lore as in TES I-III you could answer certain background questions which would customize your character differently (Like Daggerfall) or assign you to a class (Like Morrowind)

The background story should be included as part of the race selection menu making it a carefully thought out choice and making it more immersion friendly. It will also prevent spamming between builds.

Arato · June 2016

Parrotbrain wrote: »

I feel they should let each character choose from different background stories for their race that give slight customization options for the said race...like for a nord magicka build there would for example be a winterhold college or shalidor's legacy or priest background that replaces the 2H weapon proficiency with a staff proficiency and the stamina bonuses with magicka bonuses, the rest remaining the same. This can be done for all races so that a character of any race can at least lean towards a stat of the player's choice.

This would be in line with TES lore as in TES I-III you could answer certain background questions which would customize your character differently (Like Daggerfall) or assign you to a class (Like Morrowind)

The background story should be included as part of the race selection menu making it a carefully thought out choice and making it more immersion friendly. It will also prevent spamming between builds.

You mean a combination of race and birthsigns and class? Well, class is a bit different in this game from single player TES games, and Mundus stones replace birthsigns.

Race under older TES game rulesets would govern a set of skills that your race is more proficient at, which in this game translates to the passive that increases weapon/armor xp of a certain skill line, and 1-2 passives or active skills.

Altmer increased elemental damage, dunmer fire resist and fire damage, etc.

I suppose races having bonus % attribute increases is what doesn't really fit.

Solariken · June 2016

I totally understand that many people would like to remove racial combat bonuses. It would make sense for balance.

However, I really like having another layer of character customization. I like that my Imperial Stamplar is different from Redguard or Orc Stamplars.

With that said, I would love to see each racial boon come with a bane counterweight, such that if you put a skill point in, you get the bonus but suffer an appropriate weakness. So as an example, Nords could be resistant to frost but weak to magic. Redguards restore stamina on a melee attack but magicka abilities cost 3% more. Khajiit do more damage from stealth but take more damage from AoE attacks. There are a lot of possibilities that would be appropriate.

I feel this would offer the deeper customization that I love but bring balance to the force.

Vythri · June 2016

Bosmer's racial passive is a joke. Who cares about fall damage? Why not give Bosmer a bonus to Bow damage? You know, since there's a buff to literally every other form of weapon damage in some racial passives EXCEPT RANGED PHYSICAL.

Footfalls · June 2016

As an Argonian stamblade, I'm disappointed and consider the Argonian passive changes a minor nerf to tank and stam builds. The replacement more healing done passive is obviously great if you want to be a healer... but it pigeonholes Argonians into healing and magicka based builds, while making the stamina builds and tank players unhappy with this change because they'd much rather have more healing received rather than more healing done.

This also irritates my lore nerves since from their official ESO description Argonians are supposed to be good at stealth, scouting, and skirmishing. If anything the dark elves should be the magicka specialist race: since when were Argonians supposed to be super good at healing, or magicka (compared to the mer)?

Armann · June 2016

In the main TES series the racial passives changed from each game, however when it comes to Nords they did have a bonus to restoration in Oblivion and in Skyrim the populace seemed to have alot of respect for magic users that were healers. Then you have the sages of the companions like Svari in ESO. In Skyrim there was twice the chance you would encounter a Nord frost mage compared to the other races, that was by design.

Nords are also the largest race in Tamriel, Altmer might be slightly taller but not as strong, that combined with their affinity for 2 handed weapons makes them the heavy hitters.

Based on the above, I would suggest a frost damage and/or physical damage bonus for Nords.

Van_0S · June 2016

Parrotbrain wrote: »

I feel they should let each character choose from different background stories for their race that give slight customization options for the said race...like for a nord magicka build there would for example be a winterhold college or shalidor's legacy or priest background that replaces the 2H weapon proficiency with a staff proficiency and the stamina bonuses with magicka bonuses, the rest remaining the same. This can be done for all races so that a character of any race can at least lean towards a stat of the player's choice.

This would be in line with TES lore as in TES I-III you could answer certain background questions which would customize your character differently (Like Daggerfall) or assign you to a class (Like Morrowind)

The background story should be included as part of the race selection menu making it a carefully thought out choice and making it more immersion friendly. It will also prevent spamming between builds.

I agree, with you!
But they can't do it that because its difficult and also too late to implement it!

What they can do is boost the fighters and mages guild passives also add some combat passive for thieves and DB guild(with one active ability).

Thieves guild passive:
-Increase magicka/stamina by x%
- reduce dodge roll cost by x% when an active ability is slotted
- increase stealth radius by x% when an active ability is slotted.
DB guild passive:
-increase Magicka/stamina regen by x%
- increase damage done by x% when an active DB ability is slotted.
- increase attack damage speed by x% when an active ability slotted.

Active ability for thieves guild:
Ultimate(180):
Smoke bomb: An AoE blast that stuns and snare enemies around you for 4 sec ,and gives you and your allies major expedition for 8sec.(up to 8 players)

Active ability for DB guild:
Ultimate:
Blood frenzy(90): A black aura that surrounds the caster that gives the caster major berserk and major force by 25/50% depending on the casters health and heals you based on the damage done. By 6sec.