Official Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Balance

Turelus

The new racial changes look really good and will hopefully address a few of the concerns people had in the past. That being said I don't like some of the racial fluff changes.

The main dislike comes from the 1% more and the Orc's 10% one.

The Orc one whilst nice for crafters falls off once you've done all your craft levelling however, which none of the offer skills do.
This is the biggest issue with this addition. My personal idea would be something like better repair costs which will stay relevant throughout the game and acknowledges their armourer skill bonus in previous TES games.

The reason I dislike the 1% bonuses is because (and no offence to the people who made them) they seem lazy and because there wasn't any better ideas which came to mind. I feel that between the community and ZOS there could be much more interesting options akin with the other races put here.

Van_0S

The meta for the upcoming patch is like this:
Best Magicka DPS race:
1. Altmer.
2. Dunmer.
Best healers race:
1. Argonian.
2. Breton.
Best stamina DPS race:
1. Redguard.
2. Khajiit.
Best tanks DPS race:
1.Imperial.
2. Nord.
The remaining races are 3rd in all above roles.

Preyfar

karakondzula wrote: »

Just make Rugged useful, it has to be changed!

If Rugged is bugged and not properly applying the reduction perhaps it should be changed. Maybe something like Woad (Nords gain X% physical spell resistance, with resistances increasing up to Y% as the player's health drops). This would make the passive act more like the Pariah armor set, and be somewhat interesting and a more unique racial mechanic. Also ties in a bit more with Oblivion's abilities (though not a shield).

Teko

Argonians - Very good change ! It doesn't make Breton Templars any less viable then they are now since they are over-healing a lot anyway but it's looks like a direct buff for all other healing classes who doesn't have access to BoL.However since argonians were a good race for sap tanks and they lose healing received now i would add at least a small compensation like 3% more stamina or at least 3% more healing received.Still, i think 9% healing done should benefit other healing classes more then templars and that's nice.

Bretons - Nothing really changes and i believe peoples are exaggerating a bit.I would still buff they magicka cost reduction.

Khajit - Nope, just nope.

Wood Elfs - They are suppose to be master archers but it' hard to tell.Since most peoples use bows on the off-bar for stamina dps anyway i would give them some direct buff to both bows and running speed.Current changes makes them probably a very bottom of all races in the game.

AmakarGranaen

Altmer should have magicka damage boost as well

ToRelax

I'd hoped these changes would make resistance passives (except Breton's) competitive again after they were nerfed by 90% with 1.6 ...

Van_0S

Teko wrote: »

Wood Elfs - They are suppose to be master archers but it' hard to tell.Since most peoples use bows on the off-bar for stamina dps anyway i would give them some direct buff to both bows and running speed.Current changes makes them probably a very bottom of all races in the game.

True!
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel

Flaminir

Its an improvement... but as others have said:

• Bretons AP gain... thats very niche, majority of players don't pvp so is a meaningless change. Needs to be altered to something more generic.
• Bretons need some kind of buff to bring them up with altmer/dunmer
• Nord & Bosmer still feel like poor relations.... clearly meant to be tank/stam dps, but why would you choose these over imperial / khajiit as the racials when there is such a disparity.

VadimAleks

Nord health regen nerf - ZOS i hate you!!!!!!! Health regen almost useless if we not max it sacrificing DPS- and now you nerf it. I am extremely disappointed

Elloa

For now the only thing that really concerns me is the 1% Alliance Point gained for BRETON. I don't think it's a good idea to add a bonus, even a small one, that will alter the competitive part of the game. This can affect leaderboards, and most competitive PVPer, may want to race change to Breton. Which in turn will affect Roleplayers, as the diversity of the races will changes with a big invasion of breton across all factions.

That was maybe a commercial tactic, though.To encourage/force PVP players to use the race change coupon. In which case, well played, I guess...

Katinas

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Racial Passive balance changes coming with Update 11. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

Argonian Skills
Amphibious: This passive ability has been renamed to “Resourceful.” Also, it no longer increases your swimming speed by 50%. It now increases your Max Magicka by 1/2/3%, and continues to restore 4/8/12% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina whenever you drink a potion.
Quick to Mend: This passive ability now increases your healing done by 3/6/9%, instead of increasing your healing received by 3/6/9%.
Restoration Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Amphibian.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your swimming speed by 50%.
The changes to favor Healing Done make no sense. Argonians are renowned assassins; not healers. I would suggest the Healing Done to be attributed to Bretons and Argonians should do extra damage with Execute abilities.

Breton Skills
Light Armor Affinity: This passive ability has been renamed to “Opportunist.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your Alliance Points gained by 1%.
This would be a perfect racial passive for Imperials since they are native to Cyrodiil. It would be lore-frioendly if they would gain increased values of Alliance Points while fighting in their home land. Healing Done should be a Breton racial passive.

Dark Elf Skills
Ambidexterity: This passive ability has been renamed to “Ashlander.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now reduces your damage taken from lava by 50%.
Flame Talent: This passive ability has been renamed to “Destructive Ancestry.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your Frost and Shock Damage by 0/1/2%.
Damage taken from lava is very situational. Perhaps a small value of all fire-related damage would make more sense (think Cyrodiil siege, Crematorial Guard fire breath etc.) Also 0% as first perk is obviously a typo?

High Elf Skills
Destruction Talent: This passive ability has been renamed to “Highborn.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your experience gained by 1%.
Experience gained is a good passive for Altmer since they are a learned race.

Imperial Skills
Shield Affinity: This passive ability has been renamed to “Diplomat.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your gold gained by 1%.
I would recommend for the Imperials to take over the Breton racial passive as it would be more lore-friendly.

Khajiit Skills
Medium Armor Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Cutpurse.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
Robust Constitution: This passive ability has been renamed to “Nimble.” Also, it no longer increases your Health Recovery by 6/13/20%. It now increases your Max Stamina by 2/4/6% and continues to increase your Stamina Recovery by 3/6/10%.
This is an overkill. At the current state of the game Khajiits are already one of the, if not the most powerful stamina DD classes. There is no need to further increase their prowess by adding more Stamina.

Nord Skills
Two Handed Weapon Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Reveler.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases the duration of any consumed drink by 15 minutes.
Robust: This passive ability has been renamed to “Stalwart.” It now increases your Health Recovery by 6/13/20%, down from 10/20/30% and your Max Stamina by 2/4/6%.
Nord is one of the least played classes in the game and deserve a bigger buff. Maybe 9% of Stamina at maximum level instead of 6%?

Orc Skills
Heavy Armor Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Craftsman.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your inspiration gains by 10%.
Robust: This passive ability has been renamed to “Unflinching.” It now increases your Health Recovery by 6/13/20%, down from 10/20/30% and your healing received by 1/3/5%.
Inspiration gains of 10% seems like a really solid boost; I also like the additional healing received.

Redguard Skills
Shield Affinity: This passive ability has been renamed to “Wayfarer.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases the duration of any consumed food by 15 minutes.
Nothing to add; simple and reasonable change.

Wood Elf Skills
Archery Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Acrobat.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now reduces your fall damage by 10%.
Fall damage is mostly lethal when you are on the receiving end of it when you make a mistake; or it is completely insignificant when you just run and jump around. I'm not sure how 10% will make a difference.

• What do you think about the changes?
• Are there any that you feel are too strong compared to the others? Too weak?
• Did you encounter any issues with the new Racial Passive changes?
• Are the changes going to make you change your character's race? If so, why?
• Are the changes going to encourage you to adjust your current build? If so, how?

• I like the addition of non combat passives. They are mostly good changes but perhaps several of them should be changed between races (Imperials and Bretons).
• The Khajiit passive Robust Constitution and Argonian passive Quick to Mend are too strong in Khajiit's place and given to a wrong race in Argonian's place. Wood Elf changes are too weak/insignificant.
• Not yet.
• I would change my Imperial's race to a Khajiit.
• Changes to Dunmer will allow my Nightblade to deal more Elemental damage, not only Fire damage which will slightly change the build.

Docmandu

Not too fond of the increase AP or Gold or XP passive. Even if it's super low (1%, but that might change further down the line). Don't feel that passives should be about this.

It's also weird if you try and think about the passive when you try to apply it to the game world.. why would a certain race get more gold from loot?! or more experience? (are they that smart?) or more AP.

It's not the end of the world.. but I feel something more creative could be done.


Maybe it's a way to get people to pick the XP passive race, level to CP160, then hope they buy the crown store item to switch race to the AP gain passive and once they have their precious vigor/magicka det/caltrops, hope they buy another token to switch to the gold gain passive :-) /takes off tinfoiled hat

HuawaSepp

Van_0S wrote: »

The meta for the upcoming patch is like this:
Best Magicka DPS race:
1. Altmer.
2. Dunmer.
Best healers race:
1. Argonian.
2. Breton.
Best stamina DPS race:
1. Redguard.
2. Khajiit.
Best tanks DPS race:
1.Imperial.
2. Nord.
The remaining races are 3rd in all above roles.

Best RP DPS race:
1. Bosmer
2. Orc
3.

clocksstoppe

Lol guys let's be serious, while carnage was a strong passive, khajiit had one total garbage passive (stealth one) and a half (health regen LOL). Compare it to Redguard and/or Dunmer who have three very good ones, it was pathetic.

It's absolutely obvious that you are overrating carnage. Redguard/Imperial were insane compared to everything, including Khajiit.

khele23eb17_ESO

Van_0S wrote: »

Best stamina DPS race:
1. Redguard.
2. Khajiit.

No. Its:

1. Khajiit
2. Khajiit
3. Khajiit
4. Redguard

WTF are you thinking ZOS?

For RG to be on top of Khajiit youd have to give them double the Orc damage passive. And that change would be as logical and balanced as giving Khajiit extra stamina.

MichYodias

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

FIXES & IMPROVEMENTS, BASE GAME PATCH



[*]Breton Skills

• Light Armor Affinity: This passive ability has been renamed to “Opportunist.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your Alliance Points gained by 1%.

This makes Bretons the inferior magicka race for heals and DPS. Bretons need something to give players a choice when choosing between dark elf and high elf. In my opinion they should get 2% increase to magic damage (magic version of orc weapon damage), or an increase to spell crit (like magic version of khajit), or an increase of the cost reduction passive to 5-6%. One of these changes will at least make bretons and option, especially the spell crit because it was provide a choice to argonian for healing in addition to DPS vs dark elf and high elf.

Faulgor

First of all, I'm happy to see more non-combat bonuses for races. This should add a lot of flavor to the different races without affecting competetive areas of the game. That said, I think some things need to be adjusted further.

Argonian
As pointed out repeatedly by others, the change from healing received to healing done is destructive to current builds, not really in line with established lore and absolutely unnecessary. Further, healing builds don't really need a boost to their healing done, as heals are already quite powerful to the point where healers constantly overheal. The 3% increase to max magicka will be much more useful to healers than this change. I'd advise to revert that part of the patch.

Breton
The 1% increase to AP is so small that it is almost unperceivable on an individual level, yet it is so much that it will upset many players in the PvP community. Like many others, I'd rather see something else in its stead. Maybe a decrease in crafting trait research time, analoguous to Orcs' inspiration boost? It would fit this scholarly race quite well.
Further, to balance with other magical races, the cost reduction provided by Magicka Ancestry could be increased further, from 1/2/3 to 2/4/6.

Dark Elf
I'm not sure there are enough locations with lava that make the new damage reduction worthwhile. Although I like the idea, maybe an increase to 75% would be possible? It certainly won't be enough to stand in the lava during the Valkyn Skoria fight.

High Elf
Once more I like that thought, but I don't think 1% exp gain is relevant enough. I'd love to see an increase of up to 5%.

Imperial
Same thing, 1% will not even be noticable with most gold drops from enemies, which is usually below 100 gold. Please consider increasing this further.

Khajiit
Only two races don't have at least a 10% attribute boost (Breton, Altmer, Redguard), 12% (Argonian, Orc), 15% (Dunmer, Nord) or even 22% (Imperial). One of them is the Khajiit, so I don't think the +6% to stamina is out of order. If anything, I'd still ike to see Carnage apply to Spell Crit as well.
The increased pickpocket chance is a nice addition, although as others have suggested, might fit Wood Elves better.

Nord
I'm not a big fan of reducing health recovery, as it has been pretty useless before and reducing it will only serve to cripple the few builds that made use of it.

Orc
I'm quite happy with the change to Heavy Armor Expertise, although I would have liked something that remains useful past maxing out crafting skill lines. For example, a reduction in armor degradation.

Redguard
Frankly I don't see how a boost to food duration fits Redguards thematically. I think that buff could be added to Nords, and Redguards could instead get an increase to riding speed. Orcs have running and Argonians swim speed, and it would fit the horsemen of the warrior wave. Make use of that Yokudan charger!

Wood Elf
Give the fall damage reduction to Khajiit, and the pickpocket boost to Bosmer. Further, I think their max stamina bonus should be at least on par with Khajiit (+6%). Alternatively, you could also increase their magicka recovery, as they are not only quick on their feet, but also quick-witted.

Something that concerns several races is the lackluster magnitude of resistance passives (Argonian, Dunmer, Nord, Bosmer). Considering how situational these resistances are, I'd suggest to increase them to at least the equivalent of 10% damage reduction (~7k). Further, Nord should get shock resistances as well.

MLRPZ

Looks like some people have already forgotten than the 8% more crit from Khajiit didn't work for a year and a half xD

LadyNalcarya

I dont know why argonians got boosted healing done. Theres nothing that would suggest that in lore, and imo extra damage from poison/disease or something like that would suit them better. And a sneaking passive that bosmer and khajiits have.
And all this "argonian healer" stuff only exists because people tend to misread those %extra xp passives.
Of course, there are healers in argonian tribes, just like in bosmer villages etc. But argonians are known for their Shadowscales and their guerilla forces, not for healing others.

Also it would make more sense to swap khajiits and bosmer's new passives. In previous TES games khajits had more points in acrobatics and its just logical considering that they're a feline race. On the other hand, pickpocket passive would make sense for bosmer with their "right of theft".

1% extra ap for bretons is pretty underwhelming. Maybe it could be replaced with something like Red Diamond but for magicka? Like, "attacks have a chance to restore a small amount of magicka".

Nords still seem kinda underwhelming... Especially compared to argonian buff.

And bosmer could use some kind of niche buff as well. Maybe something related to archery?

OrphanHelgen

How about changing orc passive 4% bonus dmg on melee attacks to reduce cost instead?

Cloudless

Shamelessly reposting from the General Discussion forum, since this seems to be a better place for it.

Those of us who played TES III might (surely) remember about the Dunmer's Ancestor Guardian racial ability. That ability seems to have changed a lot through Oblivion (hated it, to be honest) and Skyrim (rather useless in that case too), but in Morrowind it really shone:

"The spirit of an ancestor can be called forth by members of the Dunmer race to guide the caster's movements and protect the caster from harm during battle. The caster's percent chance of evading hand-to-hand, armed melee, and ranged attacks is increased by fifty for one minute. This power can be used once per day."

So, finally, here's my proposal: rename the passive from Ashlander to Ancestor Guardian (therefore making every housemer out there happy again, too), remove the walk-on-lava effect and add a very small % of dodging attacks, nightblade Blur's style. I suppose even an extremely low chance every few seconds (let's say, 5% every 10 seconds? The timer would then need to reset to re-count to 10 after every successful dodge the ability granted) would be a huge improvement, overall, and more in line with the Dunmeri signature racial bonus.

victorhrpereira

IMO, these 3 races still need some improvements, especially nords:

1- Nords: Still no reason to pick it over Imperial, cause they are a weaker version of it. Increase the Max Stamina to 9% or improve the Rugged passive (so people can choose between being more tanky or have better offensive stats).

2- Wood Elf: As above, bosmer are a weaker khajiit, only better for infinite dodge roll builds because of the stam regen. I would increase its Max Stamina a little (choice between damage or sustain).

3- Breton: With the new argonian passives, bretons are kinda lacking now. So, maybe increase its cost reduction passive or change it to a passive with % increase magic damage/spell crit (mayb need to lower Max Magicka a little bit if spell crit).

Lava_Croft

It's a fine line between making the right changes at once and wanting to lure people into buying race changes from the Crown Store.

HuawaSepp

It also would fit better if dunmer get 2/4/6% more spell crit instead of 0/1/2% additional storm and ice dmg I think.

Jar_Ek

wayfarerx wrote: »

As you are probably well aware, the Argonian healer community is quite happy with you today ZOS. Thanks.

Unfortunately the Argonian tank community are far from happy.

Gigasax

Khajiits are insane now (in PVE).
I think they should change the 6% Stamina either to 6% Health or more Stamina Recovery, maybe 15%.

GreenSoup2HoT

Everyone in the comments is trying to make each race have the same dps... i actually like how some races have better sustain over damage / defence over offence.

Jesh

Wood Elves: These guys need more in their racial passives, they are seriously behind the other stam races, by a lot. I'm not sure what they need, maybe a Dodge chance passive? More Crit? Increased range? Those could be cool. Or you could change the Resist affliction to do damage: Increase Poison and Disease Damage and Resistance by [x].

Imperial: This race feels adequate, but only just. I would buff this race a little, make it more desirable. Red Diamond is one perk that I dont think is strong enough (especially compared to the Redguard one).

Semner

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Racial Passive balance changes coming with Update 11. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• What do you think about the changes?
• Are there any that you feel are too strong compared to the others? Too weak?
• Did you encounter any issues with the new Racial Passive changes?
• Are the changes going to make you change your character's race? If so, why?
• Are the changes going to encourage you to adjust your current build? If so, how?

1) I think the changes to Argonian and Dunmer are nice, I like them as they are. The rest of the "fluff" I could take or leave.

2) Giving Khajiit 6% Stamina on top of 8% crit chance is over the top. If you're going to give them max Stamina, you need to nerf their crit bonus. It's just too much to have both.

3) I haven't encountered any issues so far, but haven't had time to test extensively.

4) No.I *might* make an Argonian down the line now since they're the clear healer master race now, but probably not until there's another class (I don't see any reason to make more than 2 of each class when I can just swap gear to fill different roles).

5) Honestly, not really. If I had an Argonian, sure, but my main is a Breton magblade and he didn't really get changed at all. My Khajiit stamblade will probably be op now, but I don't really need to change the build due to racial passives (though I might change it to incorporate the new Velidreth monster set). Everything else was largely unaffected.

HuawaSepp

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Everyone in the comments is trying to make each race have the same dps... i actually like how some races have better sustain over damage / defence over offence.

Hm thinking of a ZOS friendlier way maybe:

Kahjiit: Remove the 10% dmg from stealth passive and put 2/4/6% more dmg over time there.

Redguard:
Make the ressource gain not only meele and add 1/2/3% more weapon dmg.

Highelf:
+ 1/2/3% more spell dmg

Darkelf:
+ 2/4/6% more spell crit