FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »I think ZOS just gave the Sorcerer class altogether the thumbs down for this upcoming DLC.
After trying different builds to include the pet healing build on the pts. I am just thankful for this warning of sad things to come I can now prepare by leveling up a Stam DK, getting rid of my 2nd sorc what a waste of gold and the character slot, and put a Stamblade in that slot. Sorcs are now once again either free kills or crap tier'ed dps pick your poison with these changes as is. We will just either get one shotted or fall far behind in dps to the point where we was before the first sorc buff and we was being excluded by the community from doing trails because the class it self was beyond undertuned.
LALALALA HEYHEYHEY GOODBYE my magicka sorcerers, it was nice knowing yall.
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how ? the shields are even bigger now? if you get sooo little damage that your shields aren't down in 6 secs anyway you have easily enough time to reapply them. remember you have access to way higher shields now
FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »I think ZOS just gave the Sorcerer class altogether the thumbs down for this upcoming DLC.
After trying different builds to include the pet healing build on the pts. I am just thankful for this warning of sad things to come I can now prepare by leveling up a Stam DK, getting rid of my 2nd sorc what a waste of gold and the character slot, and put a Stamblade in that slot. Sorcs are now once again either free kills or crap tier'ed dps pick your poison with these changes as is. We will just either get one shotted or fall far behind in dps to the point where we was before the first sorc buff and we was being excluded by the community from doing trails because the class it self was beyond undertuned.
LALALALA HEYHEYHEY GOODBYE my magicka sorcerers, it was nice knowing yall.
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how ? the shields are even bigger now? if you get sooo little damage that your shields aren't down in 6 secs anyway you have easily enough time to reapply them. remember you have access to way higher shields now
It´s a huge drawback for pve (maelstrom arena specifically for sorcs). Will be really hard to compensate for the duration loss there - especially with how tight magica management can be.
It´s a buff for gankers as it´s now no longer practical to have shields up while traveling - makes no sense for me.
It has hardly any effect for infight combat of sorcerers BUT everyone now has a shield of the same potency as sorcs have one as their main class defense.
When comparing defensive tools sorc now has the least potent setup out of every class.
Dampen + Reflect + embers/breath/whip heals.
Funnel (even though nerfed) + dampen
Dampen + breath of life (lol).
I´d argue all of those provide better (or more well rounded) defense than having hardened + dampen.
bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »not happy with the time reduction, was never the problem with the skill
reducing the time on the other non-class shields? fine, good way to handle to much stacking, but on the class skill?
this is far far far to much of a reduction, if it must be reduced without care to the player opinion, then 10 to 12 would be more manageable
otherwise, this more or less destroys just about every build i have, and i am primarily PVE
Bigpunn225 wrote: »1st. The shield duration is to low, 10-12 sec would be a better time frame.
2nd. The changes to dawnbreaker is a worse nerf to sorcs than the shield time.
You should make dawnbreaker have one magicka morph, and one stamina one.
this is also bad for magicka templars as-well. Plus dawnbreaker is far easier skill to
than meteor. you should really reconsider the changes you have made to this skill.
FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »I think ZOS just gave the Sorcerer class altogether the thumbs down for this upcoming DLC.
After trying different builds to include the pet healing build on the pts. I am just thankful for this warning of sad things to come I can now prepare by leveling up a Stam DK, getting rid of my 2nd sorc what a waste of gold and the character slot, and put a Stamblade in that slot. Sorcs are now once again either free kills or crap tier'ed dps pick your poison with these changes as is. We will just either get one shotted or fall far behind in dps to the point where we was before the first sorc buff and we was being excluded by the community from doing trails because the class it self was beyond undertuned.
LALALALA HEYHEYHEY GOODBYE my magicka sorcerers, it was nice knowing yall.
#18
5:39AM
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how ? the shields are even bigger now? if you get sooo little damage that your shields aren't down in 6 secs anyway you have easily enough time to reapply them. remember you have access to way higher shields now
It´s a huge drawback for pve (maelstrom arena specifically for sorcs). Will be really hard to compensate for the duration loss there - especially with how tight magica management can be.
It´s a buff for gankers as it´s now no longer practical to have shields up while traveling - makes no sense for me.
It has hardly any effect for infight combat of sorcerers BUT everyone now has a shield of the same potency as sorcs have one as their main class defense.
When comparing defensive tools sorc now has the least potent setup out of every class.
Dampen + Reflect + embers/breath/whip heals.
Funnel (even though nerfed) + dampen
Dampen + breath of life (lol).
I´d argue all of those provide better (or more well rounded) defense than having hardened + dampen.
i disagree.
i play all those classes and they suffer from numerous drawbacks and situational disadvantages sorc defense is not suffering from. on templar it is healing debuff the same goes for nightblade (although i count cloak as a defensive ability) on dk is is close range melee enemies and healing debuff again. all those classes suffered from a major burst nerf .sorcs have a lot of secondary defenses too going from streak over mines to the trap whatever it is called. we both know that winning often depends on the time you can go into offence without going defense again.while i think duels will be more dominated by dks and nbs (both stamina now) i think that has more to do with their huge buffs. duels over all could suffer tho and become endless. i agree in that regard.
no idea for pve sorcs were silly in maelstrom i guess they must reset the score board.
perhaps some sorcs will have to adapt their playstyle and include higher damage compared to endless sustain . that we could perform that well and kill that good in seducer seemed strange to me anyway...
Karacule_Fairystar wrote: »In pvp, 6 seconds is like 1second because of LAG come on zos~ make it atleast 10~12sec, also the Fighter's guild passives are way more ++ a than Mage's guild passive
Karacule_Fairystar wrote: »In pvp, 6 seconds is like 1second because of LAG come on zos~ make it atleast 10~12sec, also the Fighter's guild passives are way more ++ a than Mage's guild passive
Dear ZOS, think of us, the less lucky crowd who has over 300ms PING!
1. Hardened Ward too short, a more reasonable change would have been 10 seconds or to accompany this change with a heal that isn't a pet.
2. Magicka Sorc changes incredibly underwhelming. We're on the lowest end of the PvE DPS spectrum even when you look at all the stamina classes now. We need major changes to be competitive again or you'll force all the Magicka Sorcerers to reroll a class like Stam DK or Magicka Nightblade.
3. I don't play Stam Sorc, but the big changes weren't really much in the grand scheme of things...still, I suppose it's a good step in the right direction.
Please reconsider what you've done to Sorcerers. Please
@ZOS_GinaBruno
1. Hardened Ward too short, a more reasonable change would have been 10 seconds or to accompany this change with a heal that isn't a pet.
2. Magicka Sorc changes incredibly underwhelming. We're on the lowest end of the PvE DPS spectrum even when you look at all the stamina classes now. We need major changes to be competitive again or you'll force all the Magicka Sorcerers to reroll a class like Stam DK or Magicka Nightblade.
3. I don't play Stam Sorc, but the big changes weren't really much in the grand scheme of things...still, I suppose it's a good step in the right direction.
Please reconsider what you've done to Sorcerers. Please
@ZOS_GinaBruno
ah now you know how it feels to have your class nerfed.
FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »I think ZOS just gave the Sorcerer class altogether the thumbs down for this upcoming DLC.
After trying different builds to include the pet healing build on the pts. I am just thankful for this warning of sad things to come I can now prepare by leveling up a Stam DK, getting rid of my 2nd sorc what a waste of gold and the character slot, and put a Stamblade in that slot. Sorcs are now once again either free kills or crap tier'ed dps pick your poison with these changes as is. We will just either get one shotted or fall far behind in dps to the point where we was before the first sorc buff and we was being excluded by the community from doing trails because the class it self was beyond undertuned.
LALALALA HEYHEYHEY GOODBYE my magicka sorcerers, it was nice knowing yall.
#18
5:39AM
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how ? the shields are even bigger now? if you get sooo little damage that your shields aren't down in 6 secs anyway you have easily enough time to reapply them. remember you have access to way higher shields now
It´s a huge drawback for pve (maelstrom arena specifically for sorcs). Will be really hard to compensate for the duration loss there - especially with how tight magica management can be.
It´s a buff for gankers as it´s now no longer practical to have shields up while traveling - makes no sense for me.
It has hardly any effect for infight combat of sorcerers BUT everyone now has a shield of the same potency as sorcs have one as their main class defense.
When comparing defensive tools sorc now has the least potent setup out of every class.
Dampen + Reflect + embers/breath/whip heals.
Funnel (even though nerfed) + dampen
Dampen + breath of life (lol).
I´d argue all of those provide better (or more well rounded) defense than having hardened + dampen.
i disagree.
i play all those classes and they suffer from numerous drawbacks and situational disadvantages sorc defense is not suffering from. on templar it is healing debuff the same goes for nightblade (although i count cloak as a defensive ability) on dk is is close range melee enemies and healing debuff again. all those classes suffered from a major burst nerf .sorcs have a lot of secondary defenses too going from streak over mines to the trap whatever it is called. we both know that winning often depends on the time you can go into offence without going defense again.while i think duels will be more dominated by dks and nbs (both stamina now) i think that has more to do with their huge buffs. duels over all could suffer tho and become endless. i agree in that regard.
no idea for pve sorcs were silly in maelstrom i guess they must reset the score board.
perhaps some sorcs will have to adapt their playstyle and include higher damage compared to endless sustain . that we could perform that well and kill that good in seducer seemed strange to me anyway...
As for having no reason to run hardened; it procs crystal fragments insta proc; you'd be insane not to use it over harness magicka.
kasa-obake wrote: »FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »I think ZOS just gave the Sorcerer class altogether the thumbs down for this upcoming DLC.
After trying different builds to include the pet healing build on the pts. I am just thankful for this warning of sad things to come I can now prepare by leveling up a Stam DK, getting rid of my 2nd sorc what a waste of gold and the character slot, and put a Stamblade in that slot. Sorcs are now once again either free kills or crap tier'ed dps pick your poison with these changes as is. We will just either get one shotted or fall far behind in dps to the point where we was before the first sorc buff and we was being excluded by the community from doing trails because the class it self was beyond undertuned.
LALALALA HEYHEYHEY GOODBYE my magicka sorcerers, it was nice knowing yall.
#18
5:39AM
Insightful Agree Awesome Quote Report
Home Forums Public Test Server
how ? the shields are even bigger now? if you get sooo little damage that your shields aren't down in 6 secs anyway you have easily enough time to reapply them. remember you have access to way higher shields now
It´s a huge drawback for pve (maelstrom arena specifically for sorcs). Will be really hard to compensate for the duration loss there - especially with how tight magica management can be.
It´s a buff for gankers as it´s now no longer practical to have shields up while traveling - makes no sense for me.
It has hardly any effect for infight combat of sorcerers BUT everyone now has a shield of the same potency as sorcs have one as their main class defense.
When comparing defensive tools sorc now has the least potent setup out of every class.
Dampen + Reflect + embers/breath/whip heals.
Funnel (even though nerfed) + dampen
Dampen + breath of life (lol).
I´d argue all of those provide better (or more well rounded) defense than having hardened + dampen.
i disagree.
i play all those classes and they suffer from numerous drawbacks and situational disadvantages sorc defense is not suffering from. on templar it is healing debuff the same goes for nightblade (although i count cloak as a defensive ability) on dk is is close range melee enemies and healing debuff again. all those classes suffered from a major burst nerf .sorcs have a lot of secondary defenses too going from streak over mines to the trap whatever it is called. we both know that winning often depends on the time you can go into offence without going defense again.while i think duels will be more dominated by dks and nbs (both stamina now) i think that has more to do with their huge buffs. duels over all could suffer tho and become endless. i agree in that regard.
no idea for pve sorcs were silly in maelstrom i guess they must reset the score board.
perhaps some sorcs will have to adapt their playstyle and include higher damage compared to endless sustain . that we could perform that well and kill that good in seducer seemed strange to me anyway...
Just a quick question, how are you supposed to apply healing debuff as a magicka sorc? (Unless your weapons are enchanted with disease damage, and on the off-chance that it procs the enchantment).
Sorcs are just losing a major source of damage & burst with the Dawnbreaker change, and right now, if those changes go live, I really fail to see how I will kill people without my Dawnbreaker + curse + deto combo and survive at the same time. Of course, you can win fights without a burst, but applying constant pressure is rendered far more difficult now that you have to swap bars every 6 seconds or less (and please keep in mind that people have lag and huge latencies in PVP), and that everyone has a shield.
With every other class getting a shield + their class respective passives/bonuses, and many sorcs losing their best source of damage, it pretty much just encourages to spam Overload (which is a very sad way to play imo) if they want to go offensive.
Also keep in mind that against dks, Overload is useless, and I am seriously wondering how I am supposed to duel or play against dks right now without Dawnbreaker. (curse + lightning heavy attacks + mages' wrath + really nerfed proxy only? that's cute)
Regarding the trap issue, it is honestly easily avoidable. First of, trap is going to do physical damage now, so it will be a bit silly to keep using it, which leaves sorcs with rune + mines (if you have space to slot them. I personally slot all 3 on my overload bar when I'm outnumbered and hide behind a tree in hopes to kill some pugs). Assuming that with those changes, you feel forced to mine camp in every situation, I still fail to see how it will be effective. People have distance skills after all. Last time I tried to put up mines against 4 people, I got killed by radiant + flying blade + snipe + silver shards. Also, they can just spam shields too now against any damage you try to put out.
As for the escape, well streak is still nerfed, which is not surprising, nor does it need to be changed, but its effectiveness is relative in a situational context. Seriously, I have seen far more sorcs getting ambushed, crit rushed, charged, or otherwise snared while they were trying to flee, and get rekt easily enough (considering you cannot spam streak and not run out of magicka soon enough), than nbs getting pulled out of cloak by dots.
Or are those changes just a discrete and refined nudge for sorcs to go play a support class in a group with their twilight heal and negate?
But yeah RIP my solo adventures a magicka sorc for now, I'll go play with pets and purple bubbles and be happy.
vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »So... magicka sorcs still have no functioning heal and our escape is still nerfed into uselessness. Now we also not only get our primary defense massively nerfed (with no reduction in cost), but also every other class and type out there gets the matching equivalent of our formerly class defining ability.
Who on earth thought this was a reasonable exchange? If you nerf Ward this bad you have to give us something back to work with. Get rid of the escalating streak cost, maybe.
Well if it makes you feel any better, they gave sorcs the Templar class defining ability and then nerfed the Templar version. Twice, with no reduction in cost. So it isnt just sorcs.
I guess they did give Templars lazer beams of death. And the heal is on your pet... So... Im sorry?
ArvenAldmeri wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »So... magicka sorcs still have no functioning heal and our escape is still nerfed into uselessness. Now we also not only get our primary defense massively nerfed (with no reduction in cost), but also every other class and type out there gets the matching equivalent of our formerly class defining ability.
Who on earth thought this was a reasonable exchange? If you nerf Ward this bad you have to give us something back to work with. Get rid of the escalating streak cost, maybe.
Well if it makes you feel any better, they gave sorcs the Templar class defining ability and then nerfed the Templar version. Twice, with no reduction in cost. So it isnt just sorcs.
I guess they did give Templars lazer beams of death. And the heal is on your pet... So... Im sorry?
Do you realize that freaking pet is a toggle?! Do you realize templars have standalone burst heal? Do you realize that your argument is not valid?
I'm not on pts, but I feel that hardened ward nerd is too much.
And I don't agree with the comparisons to say Templar shield. They have BoL and major mending!
It can't be compared to other magicka classes shields because they actually have reliable heals, mending and vitality which sorcs lack. This is their survivability. Does hardened even need much of a nerf to begin with? It's healing ward that makes the stack op.
vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »ArvenAldmeri wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »So... magicka sorcs still have no functioning heal and our escape is still nerfed into uselessness. Now we also not only get our primary defense massively nerfed (with no reduction in cost), but also every other class and type out there gets the matching equivalent of our formerly class defining ability.
Who on earth thought this was a reasonable exchange? If you nerf Ward this bad you have to give us something back to work with. Get rid of the escalating streak cost, maybe.
Well if it makes you feel any better, they gave sorcs the Templar class defining ability and then nerfed the Templar version. Twice, with no reduction in cost. So it isnt just sorcs.
I guess they did give Templars lazer beams of death. And the heal is on your pet... So... Im sorry?
Do you realize that freaking pet is a toggle?! Do you realize templars have standalone burst heal? Do you realize that your argument is not valid?
Im with you right up to the end. You certainly drew the short straw. But not valid? His complaint was that what he saw as the sorcs class defining ability was given to others.
I was pointing out this has happened to other classes as well. Templars just last patch. And then pointed out that the templar heal was nerfed by about 1/4 and added a los check. With no reduction in cost. Which was his second complaint.
I get it they put it on you pet. Which in most hard content or decent pvp makes it pointless. But it doesnt change the fact that part of Zos new balance plan seems to be pass everything out to everyone. And the points are still valid. The things that happened to sorcs have happened to other classes.
Stam Sorc has never been the same since the major/minor buff system was implemented and we lost the ability to stack weapon damage much higher than other classes.
vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »ArvenAldmeri wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »So... magicka sorcs still have no functioning heal and our escape is still nerfed into uselessness. Now we also not only get our primary defense massively nerfed (with no reduction in cost), but also every other class and type out there gets the matching equivalent of our formerly class defining ability.
Who on earth thought this was a reasonable exchange? If you nerf Ward this bad you have to give us something back to work with. Get rid of the escalating streak cost, maybe.
Well if it makes you feel any better, they gave sorcs the Templar class defining ability and then nerfed the Templar version. Twice, with no reduction in cost. So it isnt just sorcs.
I guess they did give Templars lazer beams of death. And the heal is on your pet... So... Im sorry?
Do you realize that freaking pet is a toggle?! Do you realize templars have standalone burst heal? Do you realize that your argument is not valid?
Im with you right up to the end. You certainly drew the short straw. But not valid? His complaint was that what he saw as the sorcs class defining ability was given to others.
I was pointing out this has happened to other classes as well. Templars just last patch. And then pointed out that the templar heal was nerfed by about 1/4 and added a los check. With no reduction in cost. Which was his second complaint.
I get it they put it on you pet. Which in most hard content or decent pvp makes it pointless. But it doesnt change the fact that part of Zos new balance plan seems to be pass everything out to everyone. And the points are still valid. The things that happened to sorcs have happened to other classes.
But thing is even with BoL nerfed/kinda sorta available to sorcs, templars still had(and have) some great things going for them exclusively(especially in PvE, although undodgeable 50% health execute alone is imo way too much for PvP), such as unique stamina restoring skills, probably most OP dps+selfheal skill there is(Sweeps literally allow you outheal pretty much any damage in PvE short of oneshot, just how insane is that?), class purge, free Major Mending, OP execute, +500 free mag regen with Focus...
Sorcs, outside of shields, have pretty much NOTHING special going for them, PvE-wise. Overload perhaps, but it's broken beyond words and it can already be outdps'd by other classes. So...yeah.
Bigpunn225 wrote: »I will say this sorcerers were in a really good spot the last couple of patches. I'm cool with lowering the shields time frame down, But 6secs is too low. 12secs would be a better time frame. Sorcs do not have great heals or a built in dodge chance so we have to rely on that ward to keep us alive. NB for example have a built in dodge chance in their skill tree, with other stam builds using shuffle for a dodge chance. Stam builds are getting a shield of their own this patch. Does anyone else not see the issue with this? So on top of a mean 20% dodge chance you have like a 7k ward with bone shield now, plus the ability to dodge roll multiple times. Magicka sorcerers do not the luxury of really dodge rolling attacks often we also don't have a dodge chance on top of a ward, like stam builds are going to have. So now stam builds will have multiple ways of mitigating a ton of dmg while your killing the only way a sorcerer can survive affectively in pvp and in solo pve. The sorcerer was really hurt offensively as well, by taking away dawnbreaker. This was by far the best instant dps ulti we had. The point im trying to make is this you are really hurting this class form two different angles this patch. This wasn't a small change this was a complete game changing move.