Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

NBrookus

Irkillez wrote: »

Instead of changing the duration maybe add a global cooldown in the 10-12 sec range for shields and make all a 20 sec duration, Would put an end to the pure shield staking builds that are ruining pvp.

That'd be terrible for PvE. In a trial or big boss fight lasting several minutes, there's no way a DK magicka tank can only cast shields every 10-12 seconds to protect herself and the team. Nor the healer who is casting Healing Ward and running Harness Magicka.

RinaldoGandolphi

The thing with Sorcs is with the snare meta if you had more then 1 person beating on you, you were pretty much done if you were unable to streak or los

My Templar on the other hand has a mini-nova in Empowering sweep and a damage dealing shield in Radiant Ward. Both of these skills mitigate more damage the more people you hit. Combine that with channel focus, purify and the healing buffs to Honor the Dead and I could face tank more damage then my sorc from more people for a longer time. This isn't even counting sweeps

Templar was in a better place last patch them magic sorc, in fact Templar was the best open world pvp class in the game.

Don't get me wrong I think Sorc shields needed adjusted but I also think the nerfs to bolt escape and boundless storm were too much and without that mobility shields was all magic sorc had and now that's gone do magic sorc is probably a sitting duck

I'd take mobility over Ward any day of the week. I don't like they are removing some of the classes identity, but I'll wait and see how it plays out. It's still early in the PTS

ForsakenSin

Hey while we are at nerfing our shields

Marvel can you nerf captain america shield making him only be able to use it for 6 sec as well its not fair for other avengers or the enemies

joking aside i don't think this should have been implemented why can't PVP and PVE be separated there are many players who love to do dungeons and having 20sec helps allot when you are glass cannon and considering they nerferd heal from templer it helps.

Yes i know i will get L2P ect however my mage has one job and that is huge DPS as quick as possible while been able to stay alive..

Separate PVP from PVE and let those in PVP whine and get their nerfs

Or as mentioned just add this:

1) Remove shield stacking
2 ) Leave PVP shield reduction
4) Add bastion to add seconds to the all shields
5 ) Place starting time be from 6 sec to 20 sec with max 100cp and max mana or stamina to determinant the strength of the shield.

And done! then everybody can adjust to their play style pvp or pve no more nerfing or whining , you are ok with 6 sec fine that works for you not for everybody else spend CP points in something else , we need 15-20 sec for pve not a problem we will just invest in new bastion skill. ( or some other skill so in order to get that 20 sec we need to remove CP from something else ect )

So simple.....

Barlthump

To all the sorcs threatening to reroll, JUST DO IT! I love these changes, no more running around the world with a damage shield when not in combat, the changes make no difference if you are in combat, and you don't need such a huge shield while just walking around out of combat. And for those worried about the PvE prospects of the game, it's fairly legit if you ask me, going a full glass cannon build means you got to be careful about mob mechanics and know which hits you can take and which you can't. I find it really unfair that other classes need a bare minimum of 18k- 20k health to be accepted into a raid where as if you are a sorc you just need like 10-13k health with a 30k dmg health shield. You got to give up something. It's balance, glass cannon = quicker death + more damage, going abut tanky = lesser damage + more survivability

potirondb16_ESO

I'm adding to my proposition to increase force pulse domage and making it one single elemental blow (the same as your staff) to also considere giving more space to the execute of the sorcerer maybe 30% instead of 20 which feels really low.

potirondb16_ESO

Barlthump wrote: »

To all the sorcs threatening to reroll, JUST DO IT! I love these changes, no more running around the world with a damage shield when not in combat, the changes make no difference if you are in combat, and you don't need such a huge shield while just walking around out of combat. And for those worried about the PvE prospects of the game, it's fairly legit if you ask me, going a full glass cannon build means you got to be careful about mob mechanics and know which hits you can take and which you can't. I find it really unfair that other classes need a bare minimum of 18k- 20k health to be accepted into a raid where as if you are a sorc you just need like 10-13k health with a 30k dmg health shield. You got to give up something. It's balance, glass cannon = quicker death + more damage, going abut tanky = lesser damage + more survivability

That is actually an unacurate statement, I do agree with you that a dps which is not a sorc could use more hp then a sorc who's using his shield. Meanwhile there's a lot of consideration a shield user need to take care of, lower improvement from CP while not using shield, also using a shield on a sorc is a pain since sorc got to stack 2 skills on each bar which leaves us with 3 ability per bar... so getting a shield is kind of a solution for bad healing or too much domage taking from a specific mecanic not a real solution.

I mean, I don't have a lot of issue with lower timer on shield even if it will be a real issue at some point during some content but I think the real issue with sorc is the lack of dps output compare to other magika class.

Mulcibur

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Have done some testing on PTS and although I'm okay with a shorter duration, 6 seconds is not a reasonable change. Given that this is a class skill and that Sorcs lack any other real defense or decent (non-pet) heal, this change really stunts Sorcs ability to survive in both PVE and PVP. A more reasonable change would be to shorten the duration to 12 or 15 seconds, at least then there is time to cast another buff and bar swap before the timer runs out.

Another suggestion would be to rather leave the duration as it is on Live but make shields critable. This would have a much lower impact on both PVE and PVP builds than the current PTS implementation. 6 seconds is just a little too short.

Yo_Donno

Barlthump wrote: »

To all the sorcs threatening to reroll, JUST DO IT! I love these changes, no more running around the world with a damage shield when not in combat, the changes make no difference if you are in combat, and you don't need such a huge shield while just walking around out of combat. And for those worried about the PvE prospects of the game, it's fairly legit if you ask me, going a full glass cannon build means you got to be careful about mob mechanics and know which hits you can take and which you can't. I find it really unfair that other classes need a bare minimum of 18k- 20k health to be accepted into a raid where as if you are a sorc you just need like 10-13k health with a 30k dmg health shield. You got to give up something. It's balance, glass cannon = quicker death + more damage, going abut tanky = lesser damage + more survivability

In no way is "running around the world with a damage shield when not in combat" a disadvantage.

Seriously though, a couple things here:
This may be just me but I've never heard of hazing raids by any stats, maybe spell damage but definitely not Max Health;
Second, max health alone is probably the worst way possible to keep yourself alive, in fact, using the weak healing Dark Exchange has any Sorc could probably keep themselves alive longer by putting those extra points into Magicka rather than Health. The extra few points you put there would only be enough to keep you alive for maybe 2-3000 more damage points. The only utility it really provides in PVE is to keep you from getting one-shotted, which you can still do if you have the foresight with a 6 second damage shield.

Also, 30k Damage Shield? No. Just no. Most I've ever seen (I'd like to point out in PVE, where it is at 100% Strength) is about 20k, and that's pretty crazy. I myself, with 100 points into Bastion am only at 15k (This isn't the value shown on the tooltips I have just observed by watching the damage counter in the bottom left). The other number I'd like to question you on is 10-13k Health because as a Dark Elf Sorc, before I hit the level cap had no points into Health, at Veteran 10 had 12k Health still not a lot but I'm assuming a Vet 16 minimum health is over 13k so I'm not quite sure where you're going with that.

STEVIL

Xeven wrote: »

If you try to refresh ward at 5 seconds but get CC instead, your old ward will protect you long enough to get up. If you try to refresh at 6 seconds but get CC instead, you're dead.

Effectively what we have is a 1 second ward, 4 second DPS rotation. That is the pigeonhole we've been shoved into.

or 1 sec ward, 3 sec dps, mist form for dmg, ward

Valencer

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Hey while we are at nerfing our shields

Marvel can you nerf captain america shield making him only be able to use it for 6 sec as well its not fair for other avengers or the enemies

joking aside i don't think this should have been implemented why can't PVP and PVE be separated there are many players who love to do dungeons and having 20sec helps allot when you are glass cannon and considering they nerferd heal from templer it helps.

Yes i know i will get L2P ect however my mage has one job and that is huge DPS as quick as possible while been able to stay alive..

Separate PVP from PVE and let those in PVP whine and get their nerfs

...

It is basically common knowledge in-game that if you want to have an easy time doing vMA, you do it on a magicka sorc. The PvP vs PvE argument really has no place here.

Clearly ZOS doesnt want you to get away easily with being a "glass cannon" with absolutely no investment into anything besides spell damage and max magicka and that's probably not a bad thing.

ForsakenSin

Valencer

I understand what you are saying and yhea you are right ( even thought i cant finish VMA lol) this is why i mentioned to have a trade off use it in CP points so this way we need to sacrifice mana regeneration or something else in having option to place CP points in shield duration this way temps would be able to benefits and any other class all of us can custom shield duration by sacrificing something else in CP points same as we can place points in everything else.

Ps you didn't copy all of my post which shows

1) Remove shield stacking
2 ) Leave PVP shield reduction
4) Add bastion to add seconds to the all shields
5 ) Place starting time be from 6 sec to 20 sec with max 100cp and max mana or stamina to determinant the strength of the shield.

anyway that is just my idea

Vangy

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Valencer

I understand what you are saying and yhea you are right ( even thought i cant finish VMA lol) this is why i mentioned to have a trade off use it in CP points so this way we need to sacrifice mana regeneration or something else in having option to place CP points in shield duration this way temps would be able to benefits and any other class all of us can custom shield duration by sacrificing something else in CP points same as we can place points in everything else.

Ps you didn't copy all of my post which shows

1) Remove shield stacking
2 ) Leave PVP shield reduction
4) Add bastion to add seconds to the all shields
5 ) Place starting time be from 6 sec to 20 sec with max 100cp and max mana or stamina to determinant the strength of the shield.

anyway that is just my idea

The problem with your CP theory is that bastion is in the RED constellation tree. DPS is in blue and sustain is in green. Sorcs already run 100 points in bastion in both PvE and PvP... They are basically getting the free duration for giving up nothing since most sorcs dont need spell resist due to harness magicka...

Beardimus

Bound armour. How about make it like inner light since TG ? Slotted gives you the magika gain and second press brings up the armour?

ForsakenSin

Well for example instead of bastion giving strength make shield strength to be based on mana or stamina with cap to 15k or 20k what ever number is reasonable and bastion or other constalation to have duration

This way other classes that wish to make glass cannon dps can do it as well.

There are ways to make this fair use based on players preferences same as we have option to put % on critical

ForsakenSin

Or as you mentioned place shield duration on another constalation and maybe leave bastion there to be used.

Rylana

Yo_Donno wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

To all the sorcs threatening to reroll, JUST DO IT! I love these changes, no more running around the world with a damage shield when not in combat, the changes make no difference if you are in combat, and you don't need such a huge shield while just walking around out of combat. And for those worried about the PvE prospects of the game, it's fairly legit if you ask me, going a full glass cannon build means you got to be careful about mob mechanics and know which hits you can take and which you can't. I find it really unfair that other classes need a bare minimum of 18k- 20k health to be accepted into a raid where as if you are a sorc you just need like 10-13k health with a 30k dmg health shield. You got to give up something. It's balance, glass cannon = quicker death + more damage, going abut tanky = lesser damage + more survivability

In no way is "running around the world with a damage shield when not in combat" a disadvantage.

Seriously though, a couple things here:
This may be just me but I've never heard of hazing raids by any stats, maybe spell damage but definitely not Max Health;
Second, max health alone is probably the worst way possible to keep yourself alive, in fact, using the weak healing Dark Exchange has any Sorc could probably keep themselves alive longer by putting those extra points into Magicka rather than Health. The extra few points you put there would only be enough to keep you alive for maybe 2-3000 more damage points. The only utility it really provides in PVE is to keep you from getting one-shotted, which you can still do if you have the foresight with a 6 second damage shield.

Also, 30k Damage Shield? No. Just no. Most I've ever seen (I'd like to point out in PVE, where it is at 100% Strength) is about 20k, and that's pretty crazy. I myself, with 100 points into Bastion am only at 15k (This isn't the value shown on the tooltips I have just observed by watching the damage counter in the bottom left). The other number I'd like to question you on is 10-13k Health because as a Dark Elf Sorc, before I hit the level cap had no points into Health, at Veteran 10 had 12k Health still not a lot but I'm assuming a Vet 16 minimum health is over 13k so I'm not quite sure where you're going with that.

The most I have ever personally stacked shields to was 96k. This was intentionally done at low health (about 10 percent, so healward would be as large as possible) with Healing Ward, Harness Magicka, Hardened Ward, Barrier, Igneous Shield, and some proc shield thing someone had as a set bonus.

I know someone that got to 110k. BUT, Hardened ward itself rarely goes over 20k, youre right.

Minalan

Derra wrote: »

ZOS attempts at balancing is like watching an american try to drive a stick shift for the first time. Only that they don´t improve with attempts made/over time.

I learned on a motorcycle, and yes. I might have dumped the clutch and knocked myself in the jewels a few times.

Yo_Donno wrote: »

aLi3nZ wrote: »

Is hardness Magika now the better sheild to use? I use to slot just hardened Ward on my sorc for pvp? Maybe now I should just slot harness Magika? I guess I will have to test. I have only tried my mageblade on pts so far.

If these changes go through (which I hope they don't) Harness Magicka will still be weaker than hardened ward. The other morph though, Dampen Magic and Hardened Ward with 7 pieces light armor will be the same exact cast aside from the pet buff on Hardened ward (which lets be honest nobody really uses). The two will cost the same, and absorb the same amount of damage.

Not really. They'll have the same duration and nearly the same strength.

Harness Magicka will also return magic on spell damage.

Harness Magicka can be cast from hiding. Hardened Ward reveals you.

Harness Magicka also procs frags.

There's no reason not to run harness as things are, the ZOS designers are horrible at their jobs.

Try picking the lock when you get fire-caged in veteran white tower with a six second *** shield. These idiots are wrecking the whole game because of a few jackasses whining about their stupid Cyrodiil mini-game.

ForsakenSin

Damm you are right I forgot about vet white tower lock picking for 6 sec Temps will have hard time keeping us alive and yes I agree it's all because pvp whiners they should have separated pvp and pve

And regarding vma I belive that is getting nerfed as well

Septimus_Magna

Lucky28 wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Wouldnt it be better to give dmg shields a 50% crit dmg reduction instead of the current 100% crit dmg reduction?

This would make it better possible to burst through shields in pvp without messing up sorcs in pve.

No because that ruins so many builds. and i'm not talking about sorcs. that would mostly screw my DK group build.

The problem with shields isnt the duration, its the value and crit resistance.

Now all magicka classes have the equivalent of Hardened Ward because Anullment also absorbs physical dmg.

Aletheion

Here was a real world PVE scenario I just went through:

1) Fighting in Hew's Bane No Shira Citadel
2) Cast Hardened Ward during a fight
3) Too many Nightblade/2H NPCs in the group I was attacking and ended up being chain CC'd
4) Ward ran out about 1 second into initially being CC'd simply due to when it was cast and when the first CC occurred
5) Sitting there completely vulnerable because of the 1.6 patch light armor nerf (which is kinda why we need shields so much in the first place) I was beaten to death

Had the duration of my shield lasted another 10 seconds (though it may have been eaten up during the beating but none of those particular blows would have went to my health), a simple and easy battle I would normally survive - even being stuck in CC for a while - made me feel like a completely weak and vulnerable player.

I've been solo'ing difficult content on PTS (VMA, solo'ing world bosses, group events, etc) to see about adapting play style to keep up where I am on live, but with the changes on PTS and it's been working out decently. Resource management being the biggest issue in all of those encounters due to the across the board increased resource cost and having to cast hardened ward more frequently.

However, chain CC'ing has killed me every time whether it's a simple mob like in No Shira or a boss' adds. Light armor is not strong enough to not be shielded for additional damage mitigation. In the CC chain scenario, the duration of the shield is a huge problem.

-Aletheion

Johngo0036

Hi,

i think 6 seconds on hardened ward is a too little,

Standardize all shield lenghts to last the same period of time.

created a sorc tank and it was really op..

Magdalina

Barlthump wrote: »

To all the sorcs threatening to reroll, JUST DO IT! I love these changes, no more running around the world with a damage shield when not in combat, the changes make no difference if you are in combat, and you don't need such a huge shield while just walking around out of combat. And for those worried about the PvE prospects of the game, it's fairly legit if you ask me, going a full glass cannon build means you got to be careful about mob mechanics and know which hits you can take and which you can't. I find it really unfair that other classes need a bare minimum of 18k- 20k health to be accepted into a raid where as if you are a sorc you just need like 10-13k health with a 30k dmg health shield. You got to give up something. It's balance, glass cannon = quicker death + more damage, going abut tanky = lesser damage + more survivability

I'm genuinely curious where you find those 10-13k health sorcs. Seriously, the only way to get <15k health at v16 is to run no food or green food, which is stupid. Why on Earth would you not run blue food for a buff to both health and magicka? Or if it's drinks you're after, the Wrothgar blue drink that gives health and mag regen?

With 7/7 light(so no Undaunted passive), 0 points into health and 0 set health bonuses I'm sitting just around 16-17k health on my sorc(~16k with purple food, ~17k with blue).

And yes, I have seen other classes running similar health although it is trickier for them. Thing is those classes also have wonderful selfheals and/or other means to restore health, not to mention generally better dps and being undependant on destro staff. Sorcs seriously don't have anything else going for us in PvE. How can people glee in delight and totally not understand that?>.<

Brrrofski

So stam sorc...

They have no real stam morph. Thundering presence is useless. Nobody uses it. Boundless storm is there for a buff. It's utility. Changing this skill is pointless.

This patch comes along. The "stamina skill patch".

NBs - they already have spammable stamina skills. They get a physical Ult and execute damage type modified.

DKs - while only having two dots as stam morphs, they do have a physical ult and they got their damage type changed.

Templars - have spammable stamina skills and got a passive tweaked so deal physical damage instead of magic damage when using two said skills.

So the stam class that needed something more than the others, got the least. Come on guys, why do you hate stam sorc? Can we have some sort of thought process breakdown regarding the above?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel

Lava_Croft

psychotic13 wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

ButtersEP wrote: »

Wards aren't that strong in Cyrodiil..(already nerfed 50% in Cyrodiil) mainly why I do not PVP only PVE with my Sorc, Sorcs are actually the lowest sustained DPS in the game (not by much) I say this based off a lot (several dozen Blood Spawn Test) across a lot of different end game players (a couple dozen) my trials guild run these tests weekly many of which are top 50 players on the Vmsa weeklys.

With no ultimate's, sustained DPS only currently Mag DK's are number 1, followed by Mag NB's, then Mag Templars then Sorcs, Obviously this changes a bit with ultimate's but overload is not always forever.

This may seem off topic from the ward thread but since Sorcs will need to put more points in health and have a lower Magic pool, that sustained DPS number will be even lower, even more of a DPS loss when having to re-ward a lot.

And correct me if I am wrong Sorc self heals only come from a critical hit with power surge only? Templars & NB's self heal automatically by just well, attacking, DK's can heal as needed, Frags do not always Proc.. and power surge runs out...

I have every kind of character so I can play other classes, I am not so much complaining just pointing some things out.

all wards except hardened ward are uselless.

sorcs have stupid op dps, mobility, pets, OVERLOAD, mines. youre tankier than a HA DK tank and that should not be nor is it fair.

hide behind 3 shields are you afraid to die?

mag DKs still hit like a wet noodle! apply dots my stamplar already killed you.

dont get me started on night blades.

sorcerers bring a massive imbalance to pvp.

God I hate idiots, that's how sorcs work. What class are you?

NB ? You cloak cause you're too afraid to die?
DK ? You reflect cause you're to afraid to die?
Templar? You BoL cause you're afraid to die?

Stop being such a hypocrite and making yourself look stupid, stfu.

Cloak has more counters than I care to name here.
Reflect only works against ranged projectiles.
Healing can be debuffed.
Shields cannot be crit. Shields are cheap to cast. Shields can be stacked.

Just be happy that there's still barely any counters to Shields and all they decided is to lower the duration.

DDragon

regarding Stamina sorcerers:

This one thinks there is a bit of problem with issue detection. Modification of thundering presence (which is in this one opinion terrible, since it makes sorc passive - disintegrate - not applicable) is mostly an AoE damage enhance. This one is mostly a PvE player and as a PvE player this one never had any issue with AoE damage. There was always problem with single-target DPS, which is way too low comparing both to magika-users or stamina-users.

This one is just a simple-minded khajiit, but it thinks that adding stamina-version of crystal fragment would solve an issue. If there is no desire to change terribly revamped second morph of crystal fragments, maybe add a toggle-ability to daedric armor - just like it was done with pets. The reason it to add a strong single-target damage-making class-passive supported ability (just like WB is being used but with bonuses to class passives).

Furthermore some stamina-based single-target dot should be added (this one think there is a space here in twilight morph, which is atm used only for leveling). Revamping it to add damage over time effect and maybe give major/minor berserker for few seconds would be great. It would also add so long begged for stamina version of pets. There are so many daedric creatures, that this twilight might get morphed into something else (maybe Malacath's ogrim?) and it would be lore-OK.

Also please change the synergy of storm antronach. While the idea of adding berserker is nice one, it only adds it to one player, which makes this ultimate pretty useless in case of trials. Make it to apply to 6 or 12 people.

This one is writing this only from PvE point of view, this one does not care about PvP.

RoxyPhoenix

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Cloak has more counters than I care to name here.
Reflect only works against ranged projectiles.
Healing can be debuffed.
Shields cannot be crit. Shields are cheap to cast. Shields can be stacked.

Just be happy that there's still barely any counters to Shields and all they decided is to lower the duration.

And now you have shields too.

Lava_Croft

RoxyPhoenix wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Cloak has more counters than I care to name here.
Reflect only works against ranged projectiles.
Healing can be debuffed.
Shields cannot be crit. Shields are cheap to cast. Shields can be stacked.

Just be happy that there's still barely any counters to Shields and all they decided is to lower the duration.

And now you have shields too.

I always had shields in the form of Healing Ward and Harness Magicka. The 6s duration is nothing new too, when looking at Healing Ward.

Magdalina

Lava_Croft wrote: »

RoxyPhoenix wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Cloak has more counters than I care to name here.
Reflect only works against ranged projectiles.
Healing can be debuffed.
Shields cannot be crit. Shields are cheap to cast. Shields can be stacked.

Just be happy that there's still barely any counters to Shields and all they decided is to lower the duration.

And now you have shields too.

I always had shields in the form of Healing Ward and Harness Magicka. The 6s duration is nothing new too, when looking at Healing Ward.

Healing Ward is somewhat expensive, resto-staff reliant and only good when cast at low health. Harness is currently ony good vs magicka damage. Harness being useful against physical damage as well is a HUGE change and I'm not convinced a positive one. I thought community didn't like those shields everywhere...

Point is now you have sorc shields AND those other class skills while sorcs only have shields.
I honestly don't think it was even that needed in PvP, but I'm sure people (at least people with good ping) will adapt.

PvE now? ...yeah. Good thing I recently geared my templar so I can just play her now. If I actually feel like playing that is.

Wild_squirtle

Unhappy, shocker right? Sorcs are on the low end of the dps scale. All I get to do is overload to be 25-30k dps. Any other rotations is around 15k. I was grouped with a magblade doing 40-45 single and 90k aoe.... These were on sustained 60 sec plus fights.

So they do nothing to give us a more viable dps boost. We just have to live with the trashcan thats is the buggy overload shots. Cool.

Yo_Donno

Rylana wrote: »

The most I have ever personally stacked shields to was 96k. This was intentionally done at low health (about 10 percent, so healward would be as large as possible) with Healing Ward, Harness Magicka, Hardened Ward, Barrier, Igneous Shield, and some proc shield thing someone had as a set bonus.

I know someone that got to 110k. BUT, Hardened ward itself rarely goes over 20k, youre right.

In PVP you'll never be able to use a different classes' shield buffs in a 1v1 so you essentially just used every useful shield in the game, including ones that you wouldn't have access to. Running Barrier instead of overload or dawnbreaker will still get you killed and in PVP all those shields would only stack up to about 48k which is still only about 5 decent teleport strikes.

The set bonus thing did give me an idea though. What if base value was like 12, and there was a 2/3 piece cartable set to raise the duration to like 20-25?