Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

Derra

ginoboehm wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

I think ZOS just gave the Sorcerer class altogether the thumbs down for this upcoming DLC.


After trying different builds to include the pet healing build on the pts. I am just thankful for this warning of sad things to come I can now prepare by leveling up a Stam DK, getting rid of my 2nd sorc what a waste of gold and the character slot, and put a Stamblade in that slot. Sorcs are now once again either free kills or crap tier'ed dps pick your poison with these changes as is. We will just either get one shotted or fall far behind in dps to the point where we was before the first sorc buff and we was being excluded by the community from doing trails because the class it self was beyond undertuned.

LALALALA HEYHEYHEY GOODBYE my magicka sorcerers, it was nice knowing yall.

#18
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how ? the shields are even bigger now? if you get sooo little damage that your shields aren't down in 6 secs anyway you have easily enough time to reapply them. remember you have access to way higher shields now

It´s a huge drawback for pve (maelstrom arena specifically for sorcs). Will be really hard to compensate for the duration loss there - especially with how tight magica management can be.

It´s a buff for gankers as it´s now no longer practical to have shields up while traveling - makes no sense for me.

It has hardly any effect for infight combat of sorcerers BUT everyone now has a shield of the same potency as sorcs have one as their main class defense.
When comparing defensive tools sorc now has the least potent setup out of every class.
Dampen + Reflect + embers/breath/whip heals.
Funnel (even though nerfed) + dampen
Dampen + breath of life (lol).

I´d argue all of those provide better (or more well rounded) defense than having hardened + dampen.

ginoboehm

Derra wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

I think ZOS just gave the Sorcerer class altogether the thumbs down for this upcoming DLC.


After trying different builds to include the pet healing build on the pts. I am just thankful for this warning of sad things to come I can now prepare by leveling up a Stam DK, getting rid of my 2nd sorc what a waste of gold and the character slot, and put a Stamblade in that slot. Sorcs are now once again either free kills or crap tier'ed dps pick your poison with these changes as is. We will just either get one shotted or fall far behind in dps to the point where we was before the first sorc buff and we was being excluded by the community from doing trails because the class it self was beyond undertuned.

LALALALA HEYHEYHEY GOODBYE my magicka sorcerers, it was nice knowing yall.

#18
5:39AM
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how ? the shields are even bigger now? if you get sooo little damage that your shields aren't down in 6 secs anyway you have easily enough time to reapply them. remember you have access to way higher shields now

It´s a huge drawback for pve (maelstrom arena specifically for sorcs). Will be really hard to compensate for the duration loss there - especially with how tight magica management can be.

It´s a buff for gankers as it´s now no longer practical to have shields up while traveling - makes no sense for me.

It has hardly any effect for infight combat of sorcerers BUT everyone now has a shield of the same potency as sorcs have one as their main class defense.
When comparing defensive tools sorc now has the least potent setup out of every class.
Dampen + Reflect + embers/breath/whip heals.
Funnel (even though nerfed) + dampen
Dampen + breath of life (lol).

I´d argue all of those provide better (or more well rounded) defense than having hardened + dampen.

i disagree.
i play all those classes and they suffer from numerous drawbacks and situational disadvantages sorc defense is not suffering from. on templar it is healing debuff the same goes for nightblade (although i count cloak as a defensive ability) on dk is is close range melee enemies and healing debuff again. all those classes suffered from a major burst nerf .sorcs have a lot of secondary defenses too going from streak over mines to the trap whatever it is called. we both know that winning often depends on the time you can go into offence without going defense again.while i think duels will be more dominated by dks and nbs (both stamina now) i think that has more to do with their huge buffs. duels over all could suffer tho and become endless. i agree in that regard.
no idea for pve sorcs were silly in maelstrom i guess they must reset the score board.
perhaps some sorcs will have to adapt their playstyle and include higher damage compared to endless sustain . that we could perform that well and kill that good in seducer seemed strange to me anyway...

EgoRush

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

not happy with the time reduction, was never the problem with the skill

reducing the time on the other non-class shields? fine, good way to handle to much stacking, but on the class skill?

this is far far far to much of a reduction, if it must be reduced without care to the player opinion, then 10 to 12 would be more manageable

otherwise, this more or less destroys just about every build i have, and i am primarily PVE

I was shocked by this change too. But it just brought it in line with Blazing Shield for Templar. At least Hardened Ward scales from magicka.

Van_0S

Bigpunn225 wrote: »

1st. The shield duration is to low, 10-12 sec would be a better time frame.
2nd. The changes to dawnbreaker is a worse nerf to sorcs than the shield time.

You should make dawnbreaker have one magicka morph, and one stamina one.
this is also bad for magicka templars as-well. Plus dawnbreaker is far easier skill to
than meteor. you should really reconsider the changes you have made to this skill.

Nope!!!
Its a fighters skill line and it must always be stamina!

RIP MagiSorc!!!

Karacule_Fairystar

In pvp, 6 seconds is like 1second because of LAG come on zos~ make it atleast 10~12sec, also the Fighter's guild passives are way more ++ a than Mage's guild passive

Derra

ginoboehm wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

I think ZOS just gave the Sorcerer class altogether the thumbs down for this upcoming DLC.


After trying different builds to include the pet healing build on the pts. I am just thankful for this warning of sad things to come I can now prepare by leveling up a Stam DK, getting rid of my 2nd sorc what a waste of gold and the character slot, and put a Stamblade in that slot. Sorcs are now once again either free kills or crap tier'ed dps pick your poison with these changes as is. We will just either get one shotted or fall far behind in dps to the point where we was before the first sorc buff and we was being excluded by the community from doing trails because the class it self was beyond undertuned.

LALALALA HEYHEYHEY GOODBYE my magicka sorcerers, it was nice knowing yall.

#18
5:39AM
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how ? the shields are even bigger now? if you get sooo little damage that your shields aren't down in 6 secs anyway you have easily enough time to reapply them. remember you have access to way higher shields now

It´s a huge drawback for pve (maelstrom arena specifically for sorcs). Will be really hard to compensate for the duration loss there - especially with how tight magica management can be.

It´s a buff for gankers as it´s now no longer practical to have shields up while traveling - makes no sense for me.

It has hardly any effect for infight combat of sorcerers BUT everyone now has a shield of the same potency as sorcs have one as their main class defense.
When comparing defensive tools sorc now has the least potent setup out of every class.
Dampen + Reflect + embers/breath/whip heals.
Funnel (even though nerfed) + dampen
Dampen + breath of life (lol).

I´d argue all of those provide better (or more well rounded) defense than having hardened + dampen.

i disagree.
i play all those classes and they suffer from numerous drawbacks and situational disadvantages sorc defense is not suffering from. on templar it is healing debuff the same goes for nightblade (although i count cloak as a defensive ability) on dk is is close range melee enemies and healing debuff again. all those classes suffered from a major burst nerf .sorcs have a lot of secondary defenses too going from streak over mines to the trap whatever it is called. we both know that winning often depends on the time you can go into offence without going defense again.while i think duels will be more dominated by dks and nbs (both stamina now) i think that has more to do with their huge buffs. duels over all could suffer tho and become endless. i agree in that regard.
no idea for pve sorcs were silly in maelstrom i guess they must reset the score board.
perhaps some sorcs will have to adapt their playstyle and include higher damage compared to endless sustain . that we could perform that well and kill that good in seducer seemed strange to me anyway...

So what you´re saying is you rather have hardened + dampen magica instead of having dampen magica + breath of life for example?

Yeah all those classes HAD drawbacks. Now they can access a shield absorbing all dmg with the same potency as a sorcerers hardened ward on top of their normal defense. They now can effectively eliminate the drawbacks of their class defenses (healing debuffs) by having a strong shield on top of those. While the sorc still only has shields with their pros and cons.

I play templar and NB too you know - never bothered with a DK though. I think for a ranged char having a NB with dampen + funnel and cloak / shadowimage is going to outperform my sorc by a long shot. (Not that any of this matters bc for what i find fun stamDK and NB are the obvious choices now).

andryuhav

Karacule_Fairystar wrote: »

In pvp, 6 seconds is like 1second because of LAG come on zos~ make it atleast 10~12sec, also the Fighter's guild passives are way more ++ a than Mage's guild passive

Dear ZOS, think of us, the less lucky crowd who has over 300ms PING!

Karacule_Fairystar

andryuhav wrote: »

Karacule_Fairystar wrote: »

In pvp, 6 seconds is like 1second because of LAG come on zos~ make it atleast 10~12sec, also the Fighter's guild passives are way more ++ a than Mage's guild passive

Dear ZOS, think of us, the less lucky crowd who has over 300ms PING!

HA! A fellow 300ms+ player

EsoRecon

Valrien wrote: »

1. Hardened Ward too short, a more reasonable change would have been 10 seconds or to accompany this change with a heal that isn't a pet.

2. Magicka Sorc changes incredibly underwhelming. We're on the lowest end of the PvE DPS spectrum even when you look at all the stamina classes now. We need major changes to be competitive again or you'll force all the Magicka Sorcerers to reroll a class like Stam DK or Magicka Nightblade.

3. I don't play Stam Sorc, but the big changes weren't really much in the grand scheme of things...still, I suppose it's a good step in the right direction.

Please reconsider what you've done to Sorcerers. Please

@ZOS_GinaBruno

ah now you know how it feels to have your class nerfed.

Valrien

EsoRecon wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

1. Hardened Ward too short, a more reasonable change would have been 10 seconds or to accompany this change with a heal that isn't a pet.

2. Magicka Sorc changes incredibly underwhelming. We're on the lowest end of the PvE DPS spectrum even when you look at all the stamina classes now. We need major changes to be competitive again or you'll force all the Magicka Sorcerers to reroll a class like Stam DK or Magicka Nightblade.

3. I don't play Stam Sorc, but the big changes weren't really much in the grand scheme of things...still, I suppose it's a good step in the right direction.

Please reconsider what you've done to Sorcerers. Please

@ZOS_GinaBruno

ah now you know how it feels to have your class nerfed.

Sorcs been nerfed worse than this. I don't care about the damage shield as much as the sheer lack of necessary changes Sorcs received to DPS.

covenant_merchant

ginoboehm wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

I think ZOS just gave the Sorcerer class altogether the thumbs down for this upcoming DLC.


After trying different builds to include the pet healing build on the pts. I am just thankful for this warning of sad things to come I can now prepare by leveling up a Stam DK, getting rid of my 2nd sorc what a waste of gold and the character slot, and put a Stamblade in that slot. Sorcs are now once again either free kills or crap tier'ed dps pick your poison with these changes as is. We will just either get one shotted or fall far behind in dps to the point where we was before the first sorc buff and we was being excluded by the community from doing trails because the class it self was beyond undertuned.

LALALALA HEYHEYHEY GOODBYE my magicka sorcerers, it was nice knowing yall.

#18
5:39AM
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how ? the shields are even bigger now? if you get sooo little damage that your shields aren't down in 6 secs anyway you have easily enough time to reapply them. remember you have access to way higher shields now

It´s a huge drawback for pve (maelstrom arena specifically for sorcs). Will be really hard to compensate for the duration loss there - especially with how tight magica management can be.

It´s a buff for gankers as it´s now no longer practical to have shields up while traveling - makes no sense for me.

It has hardly any effect for infight combat of sorcerers BUT everyone now has a shield of the same potency as sorcs have one as their main class defense.
When comparing defensive tools sorc now has the least potent setup out of every class.
Dampen + Reflect + embers/breath/whip heals.
Funnel (even though nerfed) + dampen
Dampen + breath of life (lol).

I´d argue all of those provide better (or more well rounded) defense than having hardened + dampen.

i disagree.
i play all those classes and they suffer from numerous drawbacks and situational disadvantages sorc defense is not suffering from. on templar it is healing debuff the same goes for nightblade (although i count cloak as a defensive ability) on dk is is close range melee enemies and healing debuff again. all those classes suffered from a major burst nerf .sorcs have a lot of secondary defenses too going from streak over mines to the trap whatever it is called. we both know that winning often depends on the time you can go into offence without going defense again.while i think duels will be more dominated by dks and nbs (both stamina now) i think that has more to do with their huge buffs. duels over all could suffer tho and become endless. i agree in that regard.
no idea for pve sorcs were silly in maelstrom i guess they must reset the score board.
perhaps some sorcs will have to adapt their playstyle and include higher damage compared to endless sustain . that we could perform that well and kill that good in seducer seemed strange to me anyway...

Just a quick question, how are you supposed to apply healing debuff as a magicka sorc? (Unless your weapons are enchanted with disease damage, and on the off-chance that it procs the enchantment).
Sorcs are just losing a major source of damage & burst with the Dawnbreaker change, and right now, if those changes go live, I really fail to see how I will kill people without my Dawnbreaker + curse + deto combo and survive at the same time. Of course, you can win fights without a burst, but applying constant pressure is rendered far more difficult now that you have to swap bars every 6 seconds or less (and please keep in mind that people have lag and huge latencies in PVP), and that everyone has a shield.
With every other class getting a shield + their class respective passives/bonuses, and many sorcs losing their best source of damage, it pretty much just encourages to spam Overload (which is a very sad way to play imo) if they want to go offensive.
Also keep in mind that against dks, Overload is useless, and I am seriously wondering how I am supposed to duel or play against dks right now without Dawnbreaker. (curse + lightning heavy attacks + mages' wrath + really nerfed proxy only? that's cute)
Regarding the trap issue, it is honestly easily avoidable. First of, trap is going to do physical damage now, so it will be a bit silly to keep using it, which leaves sorcs with rune + mines (if you have space to slot them. I personally slot all 3 on my overload bar when I'm outnumbered and hide behind a tree in hopes to kill some pugs). Assuming that with those changes, you feel forced to mine camp in every situation, I still fail to see how it will be effective. People have distance skills after all. Last time I tried to put up mines against 4 people, I got killed by radiant + flying blade + snipe + silver shards. Also, they can just spam shields too now against any damage you try to put out.
As for the escape, well streak is still nerfed, which is not surprising, nor does it need to be changed, but its effectiveness is relative in a situational context. Seriously, I have seen far more sorcs getting ambushed, crit rushed, charged, or otherwise snared while they were trying to flee, and get rekt easily enough (considering you cannot spam streak and not run out of magicka soon enough), than nbs getting pulled out of cloak by dots.

Or are those changes just a discrete and refined nudge for sorcs to go play a support class in a group with their twilight heal and negate?
But yeah RIP my solo adventures a magicka sorc for now, I'll go play with pets and purple bubbles and be happy.

GRYM.LOCKE

@ZOS_GinaBruno

The shield issue needs to be re-thought as I am a PVE person only and 6 seconds sounds like a "Oh-*** " skill

i.e. i'm about to die lets use (resto staff ward skill) or Hardened ward but the issue is

1: Your servers are not fully based in locations allow the skill/animation to go of smoothly (EU Scotland)
2: Animation and skills interfere with each other and as such may cause skills not to go off
3: 6 seconds is to short to make a difference in PVE environments even with compliment players

really need to make a major change or not so much a drastic one

1: 10 seconds with normal ward 14 seconds with hardened ward
2: 12 seconds for Annulment

please for the sake of sanity don't screw over PVE again with PVP Shield stacking b/s

Erock25

I feel like a beaten housewife or something thinking for all these years that ZOS will change. Stam Sorc has never been the same since the major/minor buff system was implemented and we lost the ability to stack weapon damage much higher than other classes. I don't understand the vision that ZOS has for stam sorcs and it would make my day if they told us their vision. Not just some 5 seconds sound byte on eso live, I want a written post saying we won't be giving stam sorc this because of X Y Z and we think they should rely on this for A B C.

Xsorus wrote: »

As for having no reason to run hardened; it procs crystal fragments insta proc; you'd be insane not to use it over harness magicka.

Huh? Harness procs frags just the same as Hardened Ward.

ginoboehm

kasa-obake wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

I think ZOS just gave the Sorcerer class altogether the thumbs down for this upcoming DLC.


After trying different builds to include the pet healing build on the pts. I am just thankful for this warning of sad things to come I can now prepare by leveling up a Stam DK, getting rid of my 2nd sorc what a waste of gold and the character slot, and put a Stamblade in that slot. Sorcs are now once again either free kills or crap tier'ed dps pick your poison with these changes as is. We will just either get one shotted or fall far behind in dps to the point where we was before the first sorc buff and we was being excluded by the community from doing trails because the class it self was beyond undertuned.

LALALALA HEYHEYHEY GOODBYE my magicka sorcerers, it was nice knowing yall.

#18
5:39AM
Insightful Agree Awesome Quote Report

Home Forums Public Test Server

how ? the shields are even bigger now? if you get sooo little damage that your shields aren't down in 6 secs anyway you have easily enough time to reapply them. remember you have access to way higher shields now

It´s a huge drawback for pve (maelstrom arena specifically for sorcs). Will be really hard to compensate for the duration loss there - especially with how tight magica management can be.

It´s a buff for gankers as it´s now no longer practical to have shields up while traveling - makes no sense for me.

It has hardly any effect for infight combat of sorcerers BUT everyone now has a shield of the same potency as sorcs have one as their main class defense.
When comparing defensive tools sorc now has the least potent setup out of every class.
Dampen + Reflect + embers/breath/whip heals.
Funnel (even though nerfed) + dampen
Dampen + breath of life (lol).

I´d argue all of those provide better (or more well rounded) defense than having hardened + dampen.

i disagree.
i play all those classes and they suffer from numerous drawbacks and situational disadvantages sorc defense is not suffering from. on templar it is healing debuff the same goes for nightblade (although i count cloak as a defensive ability) on dk is is close range melee enemies and healing debuff again. all those classes suffered from a major burst nerf .sorcs have a lot of secondary defenses too going from streak over mines to the trap whatever it is called. we both know that winning often depends on the time you can go into offence without going defense again.while i think duels will be more dominated by dks and nbs (both stamina now) i think that has more to do with their huge buffs. duels over all could suffer tho and become endless. i agree in that regard.
no idea for pve sorcs were silly in maelstrom i guess they must reset the score board.
perhaps some sorcs will have to adapt their playstyle and include higher damage compared to endless sustain . that we could perform that well and kill that good in seducer seemed strange to me anyway...

Just a quick question, how are you supposed to apply healing debuff as a magicka sorc? (Unless your weapons are enchanted with disease damage, and on the off-chance that it procs the enchantment).
Sorcs are just losing a major source of damage & burst with the Dawnbreaker change, and right now, if those changes go live, I really fail to see how I will kill people without my Dawnbreaker + curse + deto combo and survive at the same time. Of course, you can win fights without a burst, but applying constant pressure is rendered far more difficult now that you have to swap bars every 6 seconds or less (and please keep in mind that people have lag and huge latencies in PVP), and that everyone has a shield.
With every other class getting a shield + their class respective passives/bonuses, and many sorcs losing their best source of damage, it pretty much just encourages to spam Overload (which is a very sad way to play imo) if they want to go offensive.
Also keep in mind that against dks, Overload is useless, and I am seriously wondering how I am supposed to duel or play against dks right now without Dawnbreaker. (curse + lightning heavy attacks + mages' wrath + really nerfed proxy only? that's cute)
Regarding the trap issue, it is honestly easily avoidable. First of, trap is going to do physical damage now, so it will be a bit silly to keep using it, which leaves sorcs with rune + mines (if you have space to slot them. I personally slot all 3 on my overload bar when I'm outnumbered and hide behind a tree in hopes to kill some pugs). Assuming that with those changes, you feel forced to mine camp in every situation, I still fail to see how it will be effective. People have distance skills after all. Last time I tried to put up mines against 4 people, I got killed by radiant + flying blade + snipe + silver shards. Also, they can just spam shields too now against any damage you try to put out.
As for the escape, well streak is still nerfed, which is not surprising, nor does it need to be changed, but its effectiveness is relative in a situational context. Seriously, I have seen far more sorcs getting ambushed, crit rushed, charged, or otherwise snared while they were trying to flee, and get rekt easily enough (considering you cannot spam streak and not run out of magicka soon enough), than nbs getting pulled out of cloak by dots.

Or are those changes just a discrete and refined nudge for sorcs to go play a support class in a group with their twilight heal and negate?
But yeah RIP my solo adventures a magicka sorc for now, I'll go play with pets and purple bubbles and be happy.

i completly agree the dawnbreaker issue is horrible for my sorc and my templar. the whole patch is a heavy kick for every magicka player it took away any option to 1vsX against any skilled player because the burst is much easier to avoid. but still sorcs are top tier of magicka classes . sorcs still have advantages over the other ones in an open world situation. i just wanted to say that the over all situation for small scale or soloing on magicka got awful and sorc shield nerf is not the problem.

ArvenAldmeri

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

So... magicka sorcs still have no functioning heal and our escape is still nerfed into uselessness. Now we also not only get our primary defense massively nerfed (with no reduction in cost), but also every other class and type out there gets the matching equivalent of our formerly class defining ability.

Who on earth thought this was a reasonable exchange? If you nerf Ward this bad you have to give us something back to work with. Get rid of the escalating streak cost, maybe.

Well if it makes you feel any better, they gave sorcs the Templar class defining ability and then nerfed the Templar version. Twice, with no reduction in cost. So it isnt just sorcs.

I guess they did give Templars lazer beams of death. And the heal is on your pet... So... Im sorry?

Do you realize that freaking pet is a toggle?! Do you realize templars have standalone burst heal? Do you realize that your argument is not valid?

peak99

I'm not on pts, but I feel that hardened ward nerd is too much.

And I don't agree with the comparisons to say Templar shield. They have BoL and major mending!

It can't be compared to other magicka classes shields because they actually have reliable heals, mending and vitality which sorcs lack. This is their survivability. Does hardened even need much of a nerf to begin with? It's healing ward that makes the stack op.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

So... magicka sorcs still have no functioning heal and our escape is still nerfed into uselessness. Now we also not only get our primary defense massively nerfed (with no reduction in cost), but also every other class and type out there gets the matching equivalent of our formerly class defining ability.

Who on earth thought this was a reasonable exchange? If you nerf Ward this bad you have to give us something back to work with. Get rid of the escalating streak cost, maybe.

Well if it makes you feel any better, they gave sorcs the Templar class defining ability and then nerfed the Templar version. Twice, with no reduction in cost. So it isnt just sorcs.

I guess they did give Templars lazer beams of death. And the heal is on your pet... So... Im sorry?

Do you realize that freaking pet is a toggle?! Do you realize templars have standalone burst heal? Do you realize that your argument is not valid?

Im with you right up to the end. You certainly drew the short straw. But not valid? His complaint was that what he saw as the sorcs class defining ability was given to others.

I was pointing out this has happened to other classes as well. Templars just last patch. And then pointed out that the templar heal was nerfed by about 1/4 and added a los check. With no reduction in cost. Which was his second complaint.

I get it they put it on you pet. Which in most hard content or decent pvp makes it pointless. But it doesnt change the fact that part of Zos new balance plan seems to be pass everything out to everyone. And the points are still valid. The things that happened to sorcs have happened to other classes.

Dare_Devil_Ace

peak99 wrote: »

I'm not on pts, but I feel that hardened ward nerd is too much.

And I don't agree with the comparisons to say Templar shield. They have BoL and major mending!

It can't be compared to other magicka classes shields because they actually have reliable heals, mending and vitality which sorcs lack. This is their survivability. Does hardened even need much of a nerf to begin with? It's healing ward that makes the stack op.

I totally agree with you. The nerf is bad for sorc. It feels like I lost my job as a sorc.

They nerfed the wards by 70% , at least what they can do is to reduce the cost of casting the wards by 70% too. If they were really interested in balancing.

Now many people are not talking about the fact that stamina classes have access to wards too, great nicely. But didn't they have better armor for that Medium or Heavy which provided more physical and Spell Resistance.

Light armor on the other hand is squashy. The moment your ward is gone in PVE that's the moment you die

Hope they will balance the sorcs in PTS soon before live

Magdalina

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

So... magicka sorcs still have no functioning heal and our escape is still nerfed into uselessness. Now we also not only get our primary defense massively nerfed (with no reduction in cost), but also every other class and type out there gets the matching equivalent of our formerly class defining ability.

Who on earth thought this was a reasonable exchange? If you nerf Ward this bad you have to give us something back to work with. Get rid of the escalating streak cost, maybe.

Well if it makes you feel any better, they gave sorcs the Templar class defining ability and then nerfed the Templar version. Twice, with no reduction in cost. So it isnt just sorcs.

I guess they did give Templars lazer beams of death. And the heal is on your pet... So... Im sorry?

Do you realize that freaking pet is a toggle?! Do you realize templars have standalone burst heal? Do you realize that your argument is not valid?

Im with you right up to the end. You certainly drew the short straw. But not valid? His complaint was that what he saw as the sorcs class defining ability was given to others.

I was pointing out this has happened to other classes as well. Templars just last patch. And then pointed out that the templar heal was nerfed by about 1/4 and added a los check. With no reduction in cost. Which was his second complaint.

I get it they put it on you pet. Which in most hard content or decent pvp makes it pointless. But it doesnt change the fact that part of Zos new balance plan seems to be pass everything out to everyone. And the points are still valid. The things that happened to sorcs have happened to other classes.

But thing is even with BoL nerfed/kinda sorta available to sorcs, templars still had(and have) some great things going for them exclusively(especially in PvE, although undodgeable 50% health execute alone is imo way too much for PvP), such as unique stamina restoring skills, probably most OP dps+selfheal skill there is(Sweeps literally allow you outheal pretty much any damage in PvE short of oneshot, just how insane is that?), class purge, free Major Mending, OP execute, +500 free mag regen with Focus...

Sorcs, outside of shields, have pretty much NOTHING special going for them, PvE-wise. Overload perhaps, but it's broken beyond words and it can already be outdps'd by other classes. So...yeah.

STEVIL

Feedback for ZOS on sorc.

I have two sorc now at vr16 (first char some might call main) and vr13 both magica and i planned to rol up a khajit stam sorc as soon as you let me give you money for 9-12 chars. Plan will not change bssed on playtest and Hears Dark Whispers will be coming soon to a Dominion near you.

Now you have my perspective.

I LIKE the shield consolidations and change a lot. I think shorter shields moves them to a front bar, cast instead of type tactical dynamic while still leaving them as poweful. I realize playtest results may jiggle the specifics some but i like the challenge, think its in the right direction and cant wait.

Looking over the changes i would ask you to consider basing sorc pet summons on higher of stamina/magica and spelldmg/wpndmg for all aspects, health damage heal etc.

Finally, in a 3am shower moment, way back when, had the wierd thought of having all shields and summons (with VERY broad definition of those) cue off health to give all classes reason consider splitting atts. But thats a huge changeover, more suitsble for like a full game reboot, not just a DLC.

Still mulling over the new whole picture.

Thx

Vercingetorix

Here's my feedback, as someone who exclusively plays as a sorcerer:
- Ward is essential to the pet build. The AI is terrible and stands in red while attacking. Without a shield, the pet will die frequently. Making the shield last for less time means I have to spam it even more when the mob is outside of the red. The drain on resources is too high to justify pets anymore with this change.
- Making ward crittable is a better alternative. From a PvP perspective, it allows shaterring blows to punish the "heal" a sorc attempts, but still leaves a PvE sorc at full functionality since crits don't exist in PvE.
- Shields ARE the sorc's health. Light armor provides meager defenses, and even with more HP investment, damage isn't being mitigated and the change is largely unnoticeable. When a shield goes down, we are vulnerable to being one shot in dungeons and trials. (You obviously can't heal someone who takes damage greater than their HP in a single blow.) Refreshing a shield is akin to "healing" - the shield patches up our low defense. When we take a heavy hit while dealing with mutiple adds in the middle of a boss fight, the shield soaks up a majority of the damage - we reapply the shield and the healer heals us so we can absorb any future heavy hits. Having a shield run out in the middle of a fight will happen more and cause strain on the healer to keep sorcs alive.
- Spamming shields every 6 seconds will cause sorcs to lose their resources faster (too fast) and will cause an overall detrimental loss of DPS (the only role we excel at).
- Shields are not meant to tank bosses (they never were). Shields are used by Sorcs largely to prevent add damage that coupled with boss damage can outright kill a sorc.

I understand the proposed change is in response to PvP complaints, but you need to seriously reconsider the PvE impact: This change devastates the entire class in terms of its survivability. Make the shields crittable in PvP and keep the shields at 20 seconds. Both parties are satisfied and neither is harmed by the change.

Thank you,

A Concerned Sorcerer

RoyJade

A friend has tested hurricane for me.
The skill does 84 damage (level 50 nude character), and grew up for 225% more damage with the time. It also give major ward/resolve. It last 15 second.
Cleave on the same character does 412 damage and 625 dot. That mean even cleave, who is a bad dps skill, is far greater than hurricane… against a standing target.
Now, let's think about pvp. And cry.

Seriously, if ZOS think that this change will bring back stamsorc from the death, let's launch. With the major speed boost and more damage it may be useable, but now it's even worst than before.
I just need one more test to see when the 225% damage will be up (after 5 sec? 10 sec? 15 sec?), but even with a 100% up 225% bonus it still not good.

Vercingetorix

My friends and I are still wondering why you haven't turned Crystal Blast into a stamina-based Crystal Frag. Perhaps instead of reduced cost, you could make it apply Major Fracture for a short time? An AoE debuff on a stamina sorc would be pretty epic and open up some real utility in using it. It also would synergize well with Hurricane and Steel Tornado. Please consider!

SturgeHammer

Erock25 wrote: »

Stam Sorc has never been the same since the major/minor buff system was implemented and we lost the ability to stack weapon damage much higher than other classes.

This, 100% this. Too bad there wasn't many Stam Sorcs around back then to experience the weapon damage buff stacking, many will never know satisfying that was. Maybe if ZOS gave us minor berzerk on crit surge it would recapture a little of that old school Stam Sorc feel.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Magdalina wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

So... magicka sorcs still have no functioning heal and our escape is still nerfed into uselessness. Now we also not only get our primary defense massively nerfed (with no reduction in cost), but also every other class and type out there gets the matching equivalent of our formerly class defining ability.

Who on earth thought this was a reasonable exchange? If you nerf Ward this bad you have to give us something back to work with. Get rid of the escalating streak cost, maybe.

Well if it makes you feel any better, they gave sorcs the Templar class defining ability and then nerfed the Templar version. Twice, with no reduction in cost. So it isnt just sorcs.

I guess they did give Templars lazer beams of death. And the heal is on your pet... So... Im sorry?

Do you realize that freaking pet is a toggle?! Do you realize templars have standalone burst heal? Do you realize that your argument is not valid?

Im with you right up to the end. You certainly drew the short straw. But not valid? His complaint was that what he saw as the sorcs class defining ability was given to others.

I was pointing out this has happened to other classes as well. Templars just last patch. And then pointed out that the templar heal was nerfed by about 1/4 and added a los check. With no reduction in cost. Which was his second complaint.

I get it they put it on you pet. Which in most hard content or decent pvp makes it pointless. But it doesnt change the fact that part of Zos new balance plan seems to be pass everything out to everyone. And the points are still valid. The things that happened to sorcs have happened to other classes.

But thing is even with BoL nerfed/kinda sorta available to sorcs, templars still had(and have) some great things going for them exclusively(especially in PvE, although undodgeable 50% health execute alone is imo way too much for PvP), such as unique stamina restoring skills, probably most OP dps+selfheal skill there is(Sweeps literally allow you outheal pretty much any damage in PvE short of oneshot, just how insane is that?), class purge, free Major Mending, OP execute, +500 free mag regen with Focus...

Sorcs, outside of shields, have pretty much NOTHING special going for them, PvE-wise. Overload perhaps, but it's broken beyond words and it can already be outdps'd by other classes. So...yeah.

Fair enough. i guess i did my fair share of salt throwing when BoL was given to sorcs so maybe this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

I hope sorcs arent that bad off i finally leveled one to 50 with the cake so i can play him at max level when the VR levels come out.

Brrrofski

Shields got buffed as far as I'm concerned. Hardened had always been on my front bar anyway.

Stam sorcs... I mean... Are zos doing it to purposely laugh at people. Again, NOBODY USES THUBDERJNF PRESENCE. It's a buff skill. Stop trying to make it a dps ability. It's a stam drainer.

Crystal blast - nobody uses it. Make it a 5m range stam skill

Beardimus

Questions / points from me

1. turning off Bound Aegis graphic is great, i turned to costumes rather than show it and had to wait to Cadwell's Hat to find a way to disguise - BUT it might be nice to add the Custom for Sorc's that like it - so they can still run it (personally I loved the stamina one but hated the Magika one and i'm a Mag Sorc so would happily run the Stam one.
2. Webs - will that no longer be a spammable attack? Sorcs dont have many - was running crushing shock but recently testing Webs so I dont need the staff - desciption doesnt provide enough info.

loving so many points on this update, hope they all make it to Console (show Toon name / Ultimate meter / etc!)

Lucky28

Bigpunn225 wrote: »

I will say this sorcerers were in a really good spot the last couple of patches. I'm cool with lowering the shields time frame down, But 6secs is too low. 12secs would be a better time frame. Sorcs do not have great heals or a built in dodge chance so we have to rely on that ward to keep us alive. NB for example have a built in dodge chance in their skill tree, with other stam builds using shuffle for a dodge chance. Stam builds are getting a shield of their own this patch. Does anyone else not see the issue with this? So on top of a mean 20% dodge chance you have like a 7k ward with bone shield now, plus the ability to dodge roll multiple times. Magicka sorcerers do not the luxury of really dodge rolling attacks often we also don't have a dodge chance on top of a ward, like stam builds are going to have. So now stam builds will have multiple ways of mitigating a ton of dmg while your killing the only way a sorcerer can survive affectively in pvp and in solo pve. The sorcerer was really hurt offensively as well, by taking away dawnbreaker. This was by far the best instant dps ulti we had. The point im trying to make is this you are really hurting this class form two different angles this patch. This wasn't a small change this was a complete game changing move.

Yes sorcs where in a good spot. With the changes to CP, shattering blows and shield breaker sorc was in a good place. however, rather than trying to bring under-performing classes up they decide to nerf this class and shoot another class up, this is not balance. this is why we don't have a balanced game and why with this approach this game will never be balanced.

now we're just headed towards a "gank 'em off their horse" meta how anyone can see that and be like "oh cool!" is beyond me but whatever.

Aside form that. if these changes go live, sorcs lose their individuality as a class.

It's just better to play a magblade at this point. they have their own hardened ward now, better healing, an escape that doesn't have a stacking cost increase, more options in terms ults. sure sorc can still work, but why?

RinaldoGandolphi

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi Gina

Could you please pass along this idea to the team:

Stam Sorc have been wanting a bone thrown to them for quite awhile. I understand the hesitancy of changing Crystal Bast to an stam morph instant cast melee DPS skill, in fact i agree that doing that may make the class OP. I do however have a reasonable alternative.

1. Make the Increased Pet Damage of Daedric Prey part of the base Daedric Curse skill.
2. Make Daedric Prey a Stam Morph that deals either Physical or Poison Damage after 6 seconds.

this will encourage Stam Sorcs to use sets such as the Hunt Sets you releases earlier. This will also give Stam Sorcs a reason to slot something besides bound armor, and last its a "small boost" to Stam Sorc...its nothing drastic thats going to tip any balances, but its just a little something for them. This also has no effect on Magic Sorcs at all and doesn't ruin anything for their build.

This is the best possible change you could make for Stam Sorc's without tipping the balance. It gives Stam Sorc's a unique delayed damage ability, a good reason to use a class skill, maybe encourage to use a pet here and there, without making them OP

I hope you folks would consider it. Stam Sorc really needs a little bit of something, and this would make a lot of sense for them while being pretty balanced.

FENGRUSH

This lightning armor business for stam sorcs is not 'fixing' stam sorc. The speed has been taken away. This is not a good open world skill for stam sorc, its good for dueling and PVE DPS really. Outside of that, youre chewing up your stam for a skill that has moderate damage now.


What defines stam sorc? Fighting stam DKs last night that can stack multiple poison dots and negating major defile with access to major mending. Stam sorcs passive you added (for 2% bonus damage per sorc skill [MAGICKA SKILLS AKA, things I dont really want on my bar) is outshined now by fighters guild skills on bar that do 3% and are actually good skills that are actually stamina based.

That "buff" you gave stam sorcs which was never really good has been completely negated by a fighters guild change that all stam classes get.

These things need to be weighed out - and nobody is really caring about stam sorc from the balance side. Please give more - it will be reiterated in the PTS feedback at dev meeting if no updates are provided.