Official Feedback Thread for Templars

AriBoh

Tankqull wrote: »

can someone explain me why sorcs get a upgraded prenerf bol in form of the twilight matriarch [3x7-8k heal] while we got stripped of one of our bol side heal wich were allready weaker than those twilight side heals?

Cause the devs used to play DKs, now they play sorcs.

Ashamray

Actually BoL is stronger than Matriarch healings. Sorc should have an enormous amount of Magicka to match BoL's strength

Mr.Hmm

Long Story Short.

Pack up people and lets change class.

Zinaroth

Quoting myself on my other thread "Stamina Templar Balancing Thread" for exposure.
Thread can be found here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245360/stamina-templar-balancing-thread/p1
Make sure you unfold the quotations for proper context.

Zinaroth wrote: »

Disclaimer: This thread is aimed at Zenimax Online Studios and the developers in charge of class balancing. It will be focusing on the templar class with priority on stamina orientated builds, as those are currently suffering a lot. The thread will be very long, so please take your time reading it before responding to anything. I do not mean to neglect magicka orientated builds, but with the recent patch notes they seem like they will do just fine, I am however worried about how there wasn't a single change aimed specifically at stamina templars. I will try to adress this without hurting magicka templars. The thread will consist of three segments. In the first segment I will tag all the knowledgeable EU players I know play or know about staminat emplars to have them chime in, since this post was very much a collaberation where I also asked some of them for advice. I will also tag ZOS employees, and I will lay out my idea of what stamina templars should be capable of. In the second segment I will go through the patch note changes for templars one by one and comment on them. In the third segment I will summarize the good, the bad, and what wasn't touched on in the patch notes. In the fourth and last segment I will make my conclusion of what needs to happen further with the templar class in order for stamina templars to truely be good combatants on the play field in both PvE and PvP. Thank you for taking your time to read this thread and I hope if you're a fellow stamina player you will chime in and that if you're a ZOS employee you will atleast aknowledge the existance of this thread. Happy reading!

This a call to arms my fellow stamina templar brethren, now is our chance to sieze the opportunity and tell Zenimax what needs to happen with the stamina templars, and that it needs to happen before PTS is over! @Alcast @Mumyo @Husan @Morathras @Soris @BlackEar @Springt-Über-Zwerge @Joy_Division @AfkNinja @Cinbri @Jura23 @dodgehopper_ESO @SemiD4rkness @BalticBlues @AOECAPS @Essiaga

I also hope you developers and community managers chime in or at the very least aknowledge this thread, depending on who is the appropriate person for this entire thing! @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @Wrobel @ZOS_KNowak

The Stamina Templar - an ideology
For me I have always imagined my Templar as a paladin or crusader, a heavy front line warrior able to stand his ground and smite his enemies with holy light and fire while providing buffs to his fellow team mates. A holy variation of the DK more focused on buffing himself and his allies where the DK is more focusing on debuffing his enemies. The templar should not be a hit and run class, it should be a class that can somewhat stand his ground, while still being mobile, like the DK. He fights and dies with his sword in the hand. In order to be able to achieve this, there are several things that needs to happen in this game, with the templar balancing, and this is what I will try to adress in the next part, hope you're with me this far.

Before the PTS patch notes hit it was appearent that Templars, both magicka and stamina, have been suffering from DPS in competetive PvE that couldn't match with the other classes. This might not be very appearent in a normal dungeon run, but for us hardcore trialists, it is.
Templars have been suffering under bad passives, especially when it comes to rescource management, an in detail comparison will appear later in this thread.
Templars have suffered from bad survivability outside spamming heals, something that wasn't even a thing for Stamina Templars. The stamina version of the class that was supposed to be THE healing class had the worst self healing in the game, this was a major issue.
Templars had a lot of bugs, especially for Stamina Templars the bug that made Burning Light not proc on shields has made PvP very tough for us against Magicka NBs and Magicka Sorc.
We have suffered from mobility issues, but only as a side effect of not being able to stand our ground.
Furthermore stamina templars have suffered from a bad option of class abilities; typically in PvP a Stamplar would use Biting Jabs, Purifying Ritual and Restoring Focus. In PvE Repentance would be worth slotting aswell because there were a lot of dead bodies, but not in PvP. Then there's Piercing Javeling, which until now has been really questionable in its usage since Biting Jabs would hand out free CC immunity aswell.
Dawns Wrath was a completely useless skill tree with the exception for the 4% reduced cost passive, likewise the Restoring Light tree had three abilities worth using but none of the passives were worth slotting.
Furthermore none of the ultimates were really worth using. Nova had its uses as a zerg busting ultimate, but that was about it, you'd be better off with Meteor in all aspects of PvE. The Rite of Passage healing ultimate is completely and utterly useless, sure it works as a panic button but so does Breath of Life, only people lacking knowledge would use this in any content, and then there's the Radial Sweep ulti whos damage and range is so bad that it is rendered useless aswell, often replaced with Dawnbreaker.
So there we have it; stamina templars were in disarray, benefiting from 3-4 class abilities and the same amount of passives, with none of their ultis working, no proper movement, CC, or utility, nothing that was worth spending magicka on, with sub-par DPS in PvE and bad rescource management and survival, and the worst self healing in the game and an armor buff that lasted only 8 seconds since noone could stand still in a rune in PvP with a 5 m diameter.

Before the patch notes hit I made a over over in the General Section of the forums called "What will happen to Templars with the patch? Place your bets!":
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/244923/what-will-happen-to-templars-with-the-patch-place-your-bets/p1
This thread clearly shows the frustration the templar community and especially the stamina templar community was in.
But while the verdict on the patch notes have been hard over there I don't agree that it was all bad, there were a lot of good changes aswell, so let's get into the patch notes...

Thieves' Guild Templar Patch Notes

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Blazing Spear (Spear Shards morph): This morph now displays a hostile red telegraph if it is cast from enemy Templars.

Good for the enemy I guess. I would have preferred to see a change to this ability that would also benefit the Templar himself. Currently this ability has two purposes; spam it on several mobs as a means to do AoE damage as a magicka templar or to feed stamina to your group members. This ability currently holds no position in the arsenal of a stamina templar unless you play along another stamina player, in which case it will most likely be foregone for something else anyway. Have you considered granting the stamina return to both the guy who uses the synergy and the templar himself if he is stood within range of the synergy activation when it gets used? You would still need someone to synergise and it would benefit the templar himself aswell. This could be deemed overpowered but then the stamina return could be scaled down. Just trying to advocate a buff here that would move templars more towards sustainability for himself aswell rather than just being a buff and heal bot.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Focused Charge: This ability and its morphs are now more responsive, and will no longer cause you to become stuck in the charge animation.

I have not tested this myself but according to what I have seen and read this still has a major global cooldown, doesn't really touch stamina templars much so I won't go into too much detail with it here.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Piercing Javelin: Increased the range of this ability and its morphs to 28 meters from 20 meters.

Alright, good change in accordance with the ranged buff the other class CCs got. Still, as a stamina templar this is the only hard CC we get inside the class trees, whereas DKs have a really good arrange of CC abilities available, same with NBs and Sorcs. But a good change nevertheless, would however love to have some kind of AoE CC given to us, doesn't have to be hard CC either.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Puncturing Strikes: This ability and its morphs no longer knockback and apply crowd control immunity to the nearest enemy on the final hit; instead, they now snare that enemy by 70% for two seconds.

This has been a year under way and it is a very nice chance, I very much applaud this. We will now be able to hit more with this ability and make it viable in PvP again. I would very much have loved to see the snare proc on the first hit instead of the last hit though. I am surprised to see we didn't get the damage bonus back to 170% again as it was before 1.6. Currently it's at 140% and a main damage ability of both stamina and magicka templars in PvE. Templars are struggling a bit with the DPS as mentioned earlier so I think raising the damage on main target to 170% additional damage would be fair. This would amount to around a 10% increase of damage with this ability, so it is not like it would be a major buff in PvP either, but would help us catch up a bit in PvE.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Radial Sweep: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 6 meters from 5 meters.

This is not enough. It will still be impossible to hit with, the range needs to be 8 or 9 meters if not more. Furthermore, the damage on this ability sucks! I know it has a defensive buff morph aswell, but it is simply not enough. You need to go tweak some more numbers on this one, it needs to be a viable alternative to Flawless Dawnbreaker, if not better since it is a class ultimate. It needs to do the same amount of damage or more, and please, make it physical damage.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Radiant Ward (Sun Shield morph): Increased the shield strength bonus from this morph’s shield to 6% per enemy hit from 5%.

Once again another lackluster change, what is this going to achieve? It will still be useless in PvP and in PvE it will be nothing more but an unwanted gimmicky survivability skill when fighting many opponents, in which case you're still better off healing yourself or killing stuff fast. You need to go back to the drawing board... Maybe it is a bad idea have Battle Fatigue affect abilities that scale off % health, just like Dragon Blood for the DK? This will simply not cut it.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Backlash: Increased the maximum damage limit for this ability and its morphs by 25%, but decreased their damage stored amount by 66%. In addition, this ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected.

So it stores damage slower but hits harder in the end or what? Not sure what this means, but I don't see anything in here that makes this ability worth using or even slotting again. Not for burst in PvP and not for DPS in PvE. Back to the drawing board. Maybe replace this ability with an AoE CC? Bring back a changed version of Blinding Flashes? Templars needs this a lot.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Eclipse:
[*]This ability and the Total Dark morph can now reflect ranged physical projectiles back to the enemy, in addition to spell projectiles.
[*]Revised the tooltips for this ability and the Total Dark morph to indicate that the area damage effect is separate from the self-reflect effect, and can be applied to a CC-immune target.
[*]Fixed an issue where this ability and the Total Dark morph could reflect snares from ground-placed ticking abilities, such as Caltrops or Ash Cloud, and cause you to move at extremely high speeds.

This ability will be just as useless before aslong as it can be CC broken, even if the damage still happens. It needs to get the DK treathment; meaning it needs to be a self buff instead of something applied to target. Now I am totally onboard with class diversity, and not giving all classes the same tools. But part of the reason DKs can survive a lot in PvP and stand their ground is because of their Dragon Scales reflect; giving templars something simular would not be a bad idea.
I propose changing this to a self buff that absorbs 4 projectiles instead of reflecting them like the DK. Upon absorbing the fourth projectile the templar will explode in a holy nova in a 10m radius dealing damage to targets within range in accordance to 30% of the projectile damage absorbed and healing friendlies for the same amount. This would go great in line with what the templar is and if it is a bit too strong or weak the number could be tweaked. Anyway this is just a suggestion I am sure someone else could brain storm something cooler, but it is tools like this that we stamina templars need. Something worth spending magicka on over and over again and that helps us survive outnumbered fights.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Enduring Rays:
[*]This passive ability now only increases the duration of the Sun Fire, Eclipse, and Nova abilities.
[*]Increased this passive ability’s bonus to 15/30% more duration at Ranks I/II from 10/20%.

So what you're basically saying is that Radiant Oppression/Radiant Glory are just afterthoughts and instead of changing this passive into something benefitting all abilities you're just removing it? How about making it reduce the channel time but remaining the same amount of ticks? Also; in an effort to make stamina templars more viable how about we get a stamina morph of this? Would certainly give us more tools at our disposal.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Nova:
[*]Reduced the effects and visual light intensity for this ability and its morphs.
[*]Increased the damage from the Supernova and Gravity Crush synergies by 16%.
[*]Increased the activation range for the Supernova and Gravity Crush synergies to 3.5 meters from 2.5 meters.

These are all good changes but I don't see them making Nova worth more than it already is. We will still require another target for the full potential of this ability (an recurring theme throughout the templar class; relying on other people to reach full potential and bad synergy with yourself), and I don't see it takeing over Meteor's position. So it remains a zerg buster ability, fair enough.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Radiant Destruction: Fixed an issue where the execute bonus damage from this ability would not apply if multiple Templars were channeling these abilities on the same target.

Good good, as mentioned above, a stamina morph would be nice.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Solar Flare: Increased the damage for this ability and the Dark Flare morph by 12%. The damage of the Solar Barrage morph remains unchanged.

Why buff Dark Flare but not change Solar Barrage? Solar Barrage is so bad it was never used, atleast some people used Dark Flare for the healing debuff. You need to rethink this change and most like buff Solar Barrage or make it into something else so it is worth using. Now Dark Flare will be more viable for damage, cool, but Solar Barrage will still remain unused for everyone.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Unstable Core (Eclipse morph): Increased the area damage when the effect ends by 50% and can be placed on an unlimited amount of targets, but it no longer reflects single target spells back to the enemy.

So it is basically a timed bomb when placed on the enemy? Interesting. Still currently on my DPS geared magicka templar it does 4500 damage, with this patch it will be 6750 damage, and then cut that in half for PvP. It isn't a lot of damage. I think you could've easily given it a 100% increase in damage. Also as I said above, this entire skills needs rework to buff yourself instead. But one morph could be a self reflect/absorb and the other this one, when you increase its damage.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Vampire’s Bane (Sun Fire morph): Increased the damage over time duration for this morph to 9 seconds from 7 seconds.

Interesting, might make it worth using in a DPS rotation. Doubt it, but we will see. Would you consider making the other morph stamina based? Gives stamina templars a decent class based DoT effect.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Breath of Life (Rushed Ceremony morph): This morph now only fires one additional secondary heal, previously two heals.

For many people this is a big no-go but I actually think it is a good change. I have long advocated for tuning down templars as healers to make room for other classes as healers, and in return boosting our self-sustainability. I see what you're trying to achieve here and I agree with the sentiment. But we're not quite there for stamina templars atleast, eventhough this change didn't affects us at all.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Cleansing Ritual:
[*]Increased the healing from the Purify synergy from this ability and its morphs by 12%.
[*]Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could be used to cleanse projectiles that were mid-flight. It now matches the behavior of the Purge ability.

Too bad I can't purify incoming Meteors anymore but I understand the change.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.

Finally! It never made much sense that Stamina DKs had more self healing through their own Major Mending buff, when templars were supposed to be the class with the best self healing available. Very good change! One thing though; I think it should give you Major Mending aslong as you're AFFECTED by Cleansing Ritual or Rune Focus, reason for the different wording will appear below under the Focus changes.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Healing Ritual: Reduced the cast time for this ability and its morphs by 25%, and reduced the healing done by 25%.

This ability will still be useless. We don't really need this in our arsenal anyway, Healing Springs from Restoration Staff will always be a better option. Back to the drawing board, maybe give us some proper self buff or AoE CC tool instead?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Radiant Aura (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now grants you and your allies the Major Intellect buff upon activation, as well as having an increased radius as a morph effect.

We still get Major Intellect from potions aswell and seeing as this won't stack it will still be just as useless as before. Back to the drawing board!

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Rite of Passage: In order to prevent visual issues or issues where the channel would end prematurely, this ability and its morphs can no longer be cast in mid-air.

Yeah, like... Are you kidding me? Most useless ultimate in the game and this is all you had for it? Only unknowledgeable players will ever slot this ultimate. It needs to change! I understand you want it to be some kind of healing or survivability, fair enough. How about changing it to healing yourself and targets around you and granting you all some rescources back, including yourself? This way it could become a sustain ultimate. Or it could be like a protective bubble making you immunte to all harmful effects for 5 seconds and granting rescources back? Something else than just a healing panic button. Breath of Life spam is currently more effective than this.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Restoring Focus (Rune Focus morph): This morph now grants you the Minor Protection buff, in addition to granting the Minor Vitality buff as a morph effect.
[*]Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.

Added bonus is always nice, not sure it was that needed but we will take it!
Now here comes the biggest problem; mobility.
Rune Focus is now a really really nice self buff; we get Major Ward, Major Resolve, Major Mending and Minor Protection along with either Minor Mending or magicka return depending on the morph.
One big issue though; we have to stay within the run!
Now this is not a problem in PvE, but in PvP we have to move around! We are now the only class without a mobility tool or a speed buff, since you just granted DKs Major Expidition on a Chain morph. That is okay, but you cannot force us to, on top of that, stand still in a rune. Sure the buff sticks for 8 seconds when we leave and the Major Mending for 4 seconds, but this is not good enough! Noone uses this in their main bar, that means we need to weapon swap every 5-6 seconds to reapply it or move back into the rune to reapply the effect. I understand you don't want the templars to be a class that is all over the place like NBs and Sorc, but you're forcing us to stay put or be very stationary! NBs get their armor buffs passively when using their main damage ability, DKs get a 20 second duration with secondary effects, and so do Sorcs!
For the love of everything Tamrielic ZOS, allow this self buff to stick ON us for 20 seconds aswell along with the self buffs that follow with them. It is a much needed change and compared to all the cool utility and self buffs via passives the other classes are getting this is an absolute must!
This is my single biggest concern right now, make it viable for us to move around!
Remove the requirement of standing inside a small ground placed circle, allow it to become a true self buff that sticks to our characters, thank you!

The good:
- Snare on Puncturing Strikes instead granting target free CC immunity

- Major Mending through our Purify and Rune

- Bug fixes with some major abilities that didn't affect stamina templars though

- Minor buffs like Minor Protection on Rune etc, nothing big though but still nice

The bad:
- Class ultimates need a second looks; especially the ones in the Aedric Spear and Restoring Light skill trees are still not up to scratch

- Eclipse needs a second look; it will still not be worth using in PvP simply because it can just be CC broken, give it the DK treatment

- Sun Shield will still be worthless, it needs to possible not be hit by Battle Fatigue

- No changes aimed particularly at making stamina more viable; would like to see more stamina morphs

What wasn't touched upon:
- Burning Light; hidden CD and lack of procs on shields and damage type
In this thread on page 5 at the bottom: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234362/templar-issues-thread/p5
Gina posts the following: "Burning Light – The proc chance appears to be lower than 25% •There’s currently a half-second cooldown on this ability so when
using a fast attack, such as Puncturing Strikes, it will not proc twice in a row. Also note that we’ve balanced the DPS of these abilities with this in mind."
What happened to this? Was it forgotten? We still need clearenceon whether the CD was removed or not.
Burning Light will still not proc on shields, this is a major issue in both PvE and PvP since a large part of our damage comes from this passive, we need
clearence!
Also with this proc beinc such a big part of our damage I don't understand why it is only magick damage, in my opinion it should abide to the damage
type of the aedric spear ability used which it procs from, this would make stamina templars even more capable at DPS!

- Puncturing Stikes; damage and morphs
As templars and especially stamina templars are currently struggling to keep up in PvE and this is our main damage ability it should be reverted back to 170%
additional damage on main target instead of 140%. That is approxemately a 10% increase in damage and won't make a world of difference in PvP, but it will in
PvE. I understand this ability does the most damage in the game per ability, but it is also a channel, so it needs to hit hard!
There is a lot of discrepancy between the morphs of this ability. The magicka version has a major health return morph which is absolutely awesome while the
stamine version gives extra crit. While the crit is really nice wouldn't it also be fair if the stamina version returned a bit of health? Where the magicka version
gives 40% health back maybe the stamina version could give 20%? This would certainly help stamina templars a lot in PvE content where staying alive while also
dealing damage can be a bit tough and would make a lot of sense considering we're a self healing class. In comparison the Surprise Attack from NBs also do A
LOT of things for them so I don't think this is a totally unfair change.

- Major Spell/Weapon Power
Templars are now the only class that get neither of those where other classes gets served them for nothing, is this intended or an oversight? I am fine with this
if you implement some of the other buffs suggested here but thought it was worth mentioning.

- Mobility; Rune Focus
Besides not getting Major Spell/Weapon Damage buffs Templars are now also the only class without any kind of movement option in either speed buffs or
movement utility. That is understandable, but you need to make Rune Focus a 100% self buffs to not lock Templars down in a certain position completely, we
need to be allowed to move around, and preferably all the self buffs that comes with Rune Focus should stick on us when moving around aswell. You cannot be
serious if you want us to weapon swap and renew a buff every 8 second with the current way PvP is being played, and yes I know it can be placed on main bar
aswell, but we all know that self buffs have no room on your damage bar, it would not be advantageous.

- Rescource Management; active abilities and passive abilities
Before I get too much into this, since it is a rather big deal I would like to do a class comparison of the tools available for each class to manage HIS OWN
rescources and maintain them, both through passives and active abilities. For the sake of simplicity I have excluded anything that has to do with health and
health regen since here we're more concerned about stamina and magicka.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Dragonknight:
7x ultimate cost magicka/stamina restored
2% stamina return when activating Earthen Heart ability
Draw Essence - restores magicka per enemy hit

Nightblade:
1848 magicka over 6 seconds when killing target with class execute
15% increased stamina/magicka recovery
8% increased magicka with Siphoning ability slotted
Siphonin Attacks - Restore 1k magicka and stamina on each basic attack and 10% chance of restoring 2k magicka and stamina per basic ability hit

Sorcerer:
5% reduced magicka/stamina cost
15% reduced ultimate cost
10% increased magicka recovery
20% increased stamina recovery with Daedric Summoning ability slotted
10% increased magicka regeneration with Restoring Twillight slotted (Minor Intellect)
5% max magicka/stamina with Bound Armor slotted
Dark Exchange - change stamina into health/magicka or magicka into health/stamina

Templar:
4% reduced magicka/stamina/ultimate cost
10% increased magicka/stamina regeneration (Minor Intellect and Minor Endurance)
Repentance - sucks health/stamina out of corpses
Channeled Focus - 120 magicka every 0.5 seconds
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

It quickly becomes very appearent that Nigblades and Sorcerers have the best deals.
Sorcerers have the best passives for sustaining magicka/stamina, on the other hand their active ability is not worth using.
Nightblades have som good passives for sustaining aswell, but their active ability is what really makes them the kings of managing rescources at the moment.
On top of this both classes have really awesome damage passives, but I won't go into detail on those here since we are talking about sustain.
Next we have the Dragonknights, these are a little tricky to judge because their passives aren't straight up bonuses, but when first a Dragonknight get going with some great ultimate generation they will be popping ultimates fairly often, and most times it will be like popping a tri-stat potion. It is hard to put a number on, but they are easily up to scratch when it comes to managing rescources, atleast on par with the Sorcerer. Their activated ability isn't worth it really but thought I should mention it anyway.
Then we have the Templar; 4% reduced cost is what they could amount to... Unless you play magicka in which you have Channeled Focus which is a really good ability aswell - but once again you need to stand still. Repentance gives us Minor Intellect and Endurance when slotted - here it is worth nothing that it is not just a 10% increase, so it won't stack with other minor buffs of the same kind. Anyway Repentance is good in PvE, but you wouldn't have it on main bar so you would never benefit from this, and in PvP it's the same story, only it is debatable whether you should slot it at all. On top of all this Templars have the highest base cost abilities in the game.

So the verdict is that if you play stamina once again rolling Templar is the worst choise when it comes to managing rescources, something needs to be done about this ZOS!

I would propose getting rid of the Master Ritualist passive in the Restoring Light tree; currently it is a resurrection passive and completely useless for the Templar and his allies outside stacking it with Kagrenac armor and almost instantly ressing people, which is also an issue. Change this passive into some stamina and magicka return or whatever, just something to get us up to scratch!

I also seriously propose changing the behaviour from Repentance to maybe be usable on living targets instead or aswell and just add less rescources or something.

Templars and especially stamina templars needs some help in this area, please get on it!

In regards to damage passives across all four classes that is a bit harder to judge but to me it seems fairly balanced in terms of passives, if you also take into account the class abilities.

The Final Verdict and Conclusion

This is kind of a TL;DR version but in order to understand these conclusions you have to read the rest of the post, so if you haven't, please do!

In order for Stamina Templar to truely be worth playing again you need to do the following, at the very MINIMUM, in addition to the changes you already made:

- Puncturing Strikes and its morphs back to 170% additional damage on main target
- Fix Burning Light hidden cooldown and the proccing on shields
- Further buffs to class ultimates; see suggestions above!
- Better rescource manage (stamina/magicka) through passives; see suggestions above!
- Make Eclipse a self buff that absorbs/reflects instead of a targeted effect; see suggestion above!
- Sun Shield should not be affected by Battle Fatigue and possible recieve more buffs
- See if you can add more stamina morphs; other classes have them; see suggestions above!
- Make sure you make Rune Focus and morphs self buffs instead of ground targeted effects, do not lock us down into one position; see suggestion above!

I hope the people I tagged and possibly others will chime in for their feedback on stamina templars now, and if you have any remarks to what I have written feel free to give them now. I must ask people to refrain from quoting the entire thing, because that will be very annoying for ZOS if/when they see this post.

To ZOS I would like to extend my thanks for making this game, despite all my QQ I am having a lot of fun and I am very passionate about my class so I hope you will atleast aknowledge this thread and tell me here and hopefully take of my suggestions in make the appropriate changes before PTS is over.

To all the people I have discussed this with over the last day since patch notes hit and before that, including some of the people I quoted at the top of the page, I just want to say thanks for the discussions and I hope you will chime in and let ZOS know what needs to be done.

Thank you everyone for reading!

Tankqull

Mr.Hmm wrote: »

Long Story Short.

Pack up people and lets change class.

jip switch to sorcs + 1 or 2 targets(with reduced ao dmg valnurability your pet(s)) to increase the impact of AOE caps and deliver hihger healing via your pet than BoL is capable off...

Ashamray wrote: »

Actually BoL is stronger than Matriarch healings. Sorc should have an enormous amount of Magicka to match BoL's strength

sadly not

small test on the PTS:
highelf sorc and templar, 64points into magica, 100points into blessing
equip: molagkena light armor helm + vicous death + willpower + mealstorm resto staff for both (1 slot unequiped)
skills: all class passivs nothing else, on the QB nothing but the two tested abilities no buffs running


conclusion:
matriarch heals much more do to lacking the 50% reduction on the secondary healed person, is cheaper, and (regarding the craptastic equipment) is still stronger on the primary healed target...

Alcast

Brace yourself, this will be a long feedback post about the changes that have been made or have not been made(but should have!!!)
First, I will talk about the patchnote changes for each Class Skill Line and how to improve them further to make them viable
And 2nd I will talk about changes in the Class Skill Lines that should have been made but weren't.

Templar
Aedric Spear
Blazing Spear (Spear Shards morph): This morph now displays a hostile red telegraph if it is cast from enemy Templars.
This skill got nerfed during IC/Orsinium to improve server performance, less DoT Ticks, but higher damage. Now the problem is, Templars rely on Burning Light Procs from the passives, by reducing Blazing Spear DoT Ticks, this means we will get less Burning light procs.
Blazing Spear is not bad, but by nerfing all the DoT ticks, maybe give Burning Light a small Damage increase of 10-20% to make up for the loss.
Focused Charge: This ability and its morphs are now more responsive, and will no longer cause you to become stuck in the charge animation.
Still broken: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245226/toppling-charge-is-still-bugged
Piercing Javelin: Increased the range of this ability and its morphs to 28 meters from 20 meters.
That is a very nice range boost, especially in cyrodiil where you get extra range, well done!
Puncturing Strikes: This ability and its morphs no longer knockback and apply crowd control immunity to the nearest enemy on the final hit; instead, they now snare that enemy by 70% for two seconds.
They finally removed the knockback, PvPers will be very happy, however, i think 2s snare is too short, for example Stampede gives a 6s snare, I thik it would be best to up it to 3-4 seconds to make it more viable
Stealth Nerfed, with mending tho it prolly still heals more: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245483/stealth-nerf-to-puncturing-sweep/p1
Radial Sweep: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 6 meters from 5 meters.
This Ultimate is nonexistant in pvp, and still will be after this laughable change. The Range HAS TO be increased to 8 meters to make it viable, I would also suggest changing this to physical damage so the already weak stamina templars have at least one useful ulti they could use!
Radiant Ward (Sun Shield morph): Increased the shield strength bonus from this morph’s shield to 6% per enemy hit from 5%.
This 1% Increase is a joke, nobody will ever use this morph, it is just too weak. I suggest increase the Shieldtime of the shield up to 15seconds so it might actually be used in situations, 6s is just too short for a shield compared to other shields who can be up for 20s+

The Aedric Spear Passives are somehow decent, only some small changes are needed. Burning Light Damage should be increased by 10-20% to make up for the additional procs we used to get before they nerfed some DoTs ticking intervals.
Balanced Warrior is not balanced at all, it should give an increase for both Weapon and Spell damage, not only Weap dmg.
Once those small changes are made this skill-line will be golden!

Dawn’s Wrath
Backlash: Increased the maximum damage limit for this ability and its morphs by 25%, but decreased their damage stored amount by 66%. In addition, this ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected.
Hits harder than before which is nice, I dont get the 66% part tho
Eclipse:
This ability and the Total Dark morph can now reflect ranged physical projectiles back to the enemy, in addition to spell projectiles.
Revised the tooltips for this ability and the Total Dark morph to indicate that the area damage effect is separate from the self-reflect effect, and can be applied to a CC-immune target.
Fixed an issue where this ability and the Total Dark morph could reflect snares from ground-placed ticking abilities, such as Caltrops or Ash Cloud, and cause you to move at extremely high speeds.
This skill is useless, People will simply break free....it is not worth a slot, replace this with Blinding Flashes to make stamina templars viable again
Enduring Rays:
This passive ability now only increases the duration of the Sun Fire, Eclipse, and Nova abilities.
Increased this passive ability’s bonus to 15/30% more duration at Ranks I/II from 10/20%.
Nice, finally working as intended and the inc DoT timer is also nice..
Nova:
Reduced the effects and visual light intensity for this ability and its morphs.
Increased the damage from the Supernova and Gravity Crush synergies by 16%.
Increased the activation range for the Supernova and Gravity Crush synergies to 3.5 meters from 2.5 meters.
Increasing the Synergy makes this Ulti a lot stronger in fights with many mobs, it will hit really hard, nice buff
Radiant Destruction: Fixed an issue where the execute bonus damage from this ability would not apply if multiple Templars were channeling these abilities on the same target.
The fix is nice, if it works, have not tested it. I also think you cannot dodge the beam anymore?
Solar Flare: Increased the damage for this ability and the Dark Flare morph by 12%. The damage of the Solar Barrage morph remains unchanged.
This buff to Darkflare will make the skill very viable in PvE, PvP wise it would have been nice to see an increased Travel time of the spellprojectile, because it literally travels around the world once before it hits the enemy.
Vampire’s Bane (Sun Fire morph): Increased the damage over time duration for this morph to 9 seconds from 7 seconds.
The Increased DoT time is a huge buff and together with Enduring Rays+CP Change, because it is the only fire skilla templar hs, makes it pretty viable. Sadly travel speed is still pretty low for PvP situations.

Passive:
Passive wise the only real changed that is needed is with Restoring Spirit. the 4% Reduction is just kinda useless since the CP system has been introduced, a 10-15% Recovery boost for both Stamina and Magicka would be a lot more beneficial to this skill line

Restoring Light
Breath of Life (Rushed Ceremony morph): This morph now only fires one additional secondary heal, previously two heals.
This huge nerf was not needed, instead Line of Sight checks with BoL should have been introduced to make the ability more "in line" with other skills. Also could have decreased healing by 20% because now we have Major Mending it would not be a real nerf. And trust me, this nerf will only cause more Magplars to stack and spam BoL.....
Cleansing Ritual:
Increased the healing from the Purify synergy from this ability and its morphs by 12%.
Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could be used to cleanse projectiles that were mid-flight. It now matches the behavior of the Purge ability.
RIP
Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.
This is one of the best changes so far concerning healing for stamina templars. That is also why Sweeps has bin slightly nerfed and Templar overall will have a higher healing output
Healing Ritual: Reduced the cast time for this ability and its morphs by 25%, and reduced the healing done by 25%.
Still useless, cast time kills the skill
Radiant Aura (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now grants you and your allies the Major Intellect buff upon activation, as well as having an increased radius as a morph effect.
This skill is still one of the most useless and never been used skills in ESO as you simply get the buff from Potions. This morph has to be changed completely. Maybe change it so this skill gives Minor Protection to up to 6 people for 10 seconds.
Restoring Focus (Rune Focus morph): This morph now grants you the Minor Protection buff, in addition to granting the Minor Vitality buff as a morph effect.
Like it
Rite of Passage: In order to prevent visual issues or issues where the channel would end prematurely, this ability and its morphs can no longer be cast in mid-air.
Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.
Ok

So the skills are pretty decent. For Magicka Templars the passives are somehow okay. However, stamina wise the passive are weak and also responsible why especially Stamina Templars are almost non-existant in pvp, so lets see.
Mending got nerfed pretty hard from 30% to 10% last patch...so this passive is "almost" useless. It would be really nice to see a change with this one, I would suggest changing this skill, instead of inc healing...give us someting like 10% Magicka/Stamina recovery boost after a successful kill.

Summed up:
Magicka Templar is not in a bad spot, however Stamina Templar still lacks a lot of things, and I guess changing some of the passives and bringing back blinding flashes would really make a big difference especially in pvp.

Cinbri

Prepare to Tl;dr.
So, after almost 3 days of extensive tests with all 4 classes i ready to talk about my impression and give some suggestions. With what i experienced and witnesed my suggestions are hardly biased nor will make Templar OP, so highly reccomend ZOS to listen it Maybe i should create new tread for too long feedback but i just leave it here.
First of all regarding DLC at all - it probably will be one of the greatest DLC, first time i enjoying PvE content, also ZOS removed their mistake with sets diversity and added insane sets combos. However i mainly PvP and there as templar my impression was ruined.
What i witnessed on pts currently:
1.NBs no longer spamming Cloak to get god-mode, still hit like a trucks = nice change.
2. Sorcs still as strong as were before, got buffs to useless morphs(like giving range aoe CC with previously useless Mines morph), zos honestly tried to improve pets, not perfect but they still were buffed.
3. Dragonknights - wanna gratz them as they are back on top of PvP, i was impressed how small changes not just made them to hit harder but also increase survivability while ounumbered a lot. Last time i watched good DK dueling it was my friend Legenday Omar on template; from his 30 duels he won all 30 and just shredded all enemies there. Not to say that all templars were shredded in less than 12 seconds.(It was painfull to watch how they tried to spam Total Dark on him just to decrease damage ). And he really enjoying his dk now
4. Templars - with all my 100% positive expectations toward templars, what i feeling after doing tests with other classes - it is like ZOS spat in my templar face. ZOS ruined defensive mechanics and left them only with healbot build, now zos removed possibility to be most effective healbot but gave nothing in return. ZOS buffed healing outpoot of most weakest healing classes(sorc, dk), so now they all can heal/deal damage, all except templar who still can't do damage and now can't be most effective healer... Right now competitive solo PvP templar even less viable and honestly i can't believe they nerfed already weakest pvp class even more; Right now we only one who don't have major Sorcery buff nor mobility buffs, our defensive mechanics didnt buffed, we still lack of any damage mitigation ability like Major Evasion buff skill. Overall we left on bottom of pvp without our dk buddies...
I agree mostly with @Zinaroth in his thread :
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245360/stamina-templar-balancing-thread/p1
All numbers below means possible ideas, not combination of those ideas.

---

Aerdic Spear line
Jabs - they finally removed *** CC, so now we can have CC combos. Snare is much needed for skill and is most perfect change that could be done to Jabs.

• Puncturing Sweep - with current change of Focused Healing it got healing component treatment, and despite 5% of default healing nerf, i agree that it is good change, however it is useless vs damage shields as it was before, to change it they should just take code from sorc's Surge and apply it for PS so it will be able to heal through shields.
• Biting Jabs - while PS was buffed this morph didn't get a single buff, so to balance it i suggest to implement one of those buffs on your choice:
  1. Damage to target with HP lower than 50% increased to 200%. - Since stamplars don't have class execute and can't effectively use RD, it will make this skill as execute.
  2. Add Minor Force buff. It will increase critical damage to 15%.

Javelin - very nice change and same was made for Dks Fist, so now prepare for sniping fists and spear in your face However in compare to Fist, this skill is pale. My suggestion:
1. Add 2 sec 50% Snare on affected target.
2. Add 2 sec root on affected target.
Charge - first of all none of all 3 bugs were completely fixed:
Stuck in animation - yes, you still stuck in animation.
GCD after using this skill - overall they indeed made this skill more responsive after casting, however after your char will land back on feets it still has 0.2-0.3 sec cooldown, and with Cyro lags it will still cause seriuos problems.
Auto-cancelling of cast - this is still a problem and must say it became even worse problem.

https://youtu.be/p_a9gKVP3UE

Overall it complete fail with skill fix and claims that it will be finally fixed just a lie.
Blazing Spear - new added visual is good as it will allow cloak using nb to stay away from it to not be revealed. Overall animation should be increased 2x times. When you casting 2nd spear, 1st didnt land yet.
Luminous Shards - here i agree with @Zinaroth. with zero changes of resource managment, my suggestions:

• Remove disrient component from this skill.
• Remove mana return upon using synnergy
• Decrease stamina return from 25% to 20%.
• When ally activating synnergy in 6 meters radius near caster(templar), caster restoring same of stamina too.

Blazing Shield - after so long requests to probably remove Battle Spirit shield reduction from BS, nothing was made...
Radiant Ward - zos should understand that increasing additional percentage won't make this ability comparable to BS(if BS will get pvp treatment). So my suggestion:
1. Complete redo of skill, and make it to apply 20 sec Major Evasion buff on caster. It will increase survivability.
2. Complete redo of skill, and remove damage shield component from it, make it's damage dealt in 5m radius to either stun or disorient affected targets on 2 sec.
Balanced Warrior - add spelldamage buff to this passive.
Radial Sweep ultimate - increasing from 5m to 6m is nice change but it should be only the beginning.

• Empowering Sweep - i do believe that increasing radius even further is not needed for this skill as in theory while outnumbered bigger radius mean much more damage, for current ult cost 6m is balanced. However additonal effects should be changed:
  • Remove default 15% mitigation and apply Major Protection buff(30%) for 12 sec
  • Remove additional mitigation by additional damage
  • Increase dot duration on 2 sec
  Crescent Sweep - it is still useless morph as it deal too low damage/don't have cc, suggestions:
  • Remove aoe dot from skill
  • Change it from aoe to front 10m aoe like Dawnbreaker
  • Increase damage to 50% from 33% frontal.
  • Knockdown and stun affected tagets on 5 sec.

---

Dawn's Wrat Line
Sun Fire/Vampire Bane - overall it is good change. Also Sun Fire dot now applying on damage shields and that making this skill a little bit more usefull vs damage shield users. Bad thing - snares from Sun Fire and Jabs are not stacking. Aslo Elemental Expert increasing initial hit damage and dot damage, while Thaumaturge increasing only dot damage.
Dark Flare - overall nice damage buff, but only for PvE or glasscannons in pvp, and thus it didnt made skill more competitive in PvP. It is still apply aoe debuff and still pull from invis, but now you must invest into Elemental Expert for Dark Trauma to deal damage that allowing you to spam it on enemy group, deal small damage but be able to proc and fill bounty quest.
Solar Barrage - one of the most useless and weak morphs, that for some reason didnt get 12% damage buff, also it still aplly short stuck upon cast..Depending on my suggestion of Radiant Ward, changes to SB could be in addition to get 12% buff:
1. Apply 2 sec disorient on enemies
2. Make it work as smaller version of Proximity Detonation
3. Apply 50% snare on 3 sec and apply Minor Maim+Minor Defile debuffs.
Backlash - overall i don't understand changes - it still capped at same damage but now it store less damage, thus for reaching cap you must deal much more damage. Also crits can't overflow damage cap and now Enduring Rays not affecting it = this is that *** that to fix it was decided to not allow synnergy with passive . This skill should be just removed and changed with any other things like aoe CC, damage reduction ability. Maybe make it as self-buff that store damage for time and releasing it is % of taken damage in 6m aoe.
Radiant Destruction/Glory - was fixed just as it should be long time ago. Also Glory got Focus Mending treatment and healing outpoot buffed, so now this morph equal and maybe more stronger than RO. No changes needed.
Eclipse - i lost my hope and abandoned this skill long time ago as it not working vs high-end enemies. Changes to Eclipse also one of the most stupid ever.

• Total Dark - i personally didn't believe that it could be nerfed even further, i was wrong. zos made it as copy of dk Scales with 1 serious problem - it is still debuff that has 1 capped on target and can be easily cleansed/break CC. I don't understand the meaning of this change, most of ranged stamina skills are hardly a threat except Snipe, however Total Dark is still will be worst vs Snipe and mostly unusable, with this templar finally lost last melee damage mitigation skill as it not working vs meless spells, nor as i suggested vs melees stamina abilties; and with buffs of DK this change is inferior. Also right now if target Break CC, time bomb doesn't deal damage, only if TD casted on target with CC immunity. And still it has useless HP restore upon reflect. I can only suggest what other templars suggested many times already:
  1. Change it to self buff that working as Scales, each reflect restore some amount of stamina/apply small healing.
  2. Leave it as debuff with 1 cap target, removed time bomb, but being able to reflect all magicka and all stamina abilties.
• Unstable Core - another inferior change. It is not capped with 1 target now, but damage it deal still low, in theory this skill can be used only vs 30-men train from safety when you defending castle. Also Enduring Rays passive increasing time of bomb, so if you invested into this passive it will decrease dps of this ability . This need change:
  1. Either leave it as it is and remove Enduring Rays from affecting it.
  2. Depends on changes for Solar Barrage - make it work as templar smaller version of Proximity Detonation.
  3. Depends on changes for Purifying Light - make it as self-buff that store damage and releasing it in 6m aoe.

Restoring Spirit - to increase resource managment - buff it from 2%/4% to 4%/8%.
Prism/Illuminaty - add to any of this passives Minor Berserk buff.
Nova - nice damage buff, but it still not enough for 250 ultimate. I compairing this ability to Standart. Unlike Standart Nova applying damage debuff on enemies, but if there is no enemies inside effect is zero. Standart granting damage buff to caster, while Nova doing nothing. And now Shifting Standart cost was decreased to 200 while it can be moved to new location, i.e. doubling time of ultimate and Major Defile, also it means that strong shackle synergy can be used 2 times, i.e. damage of synnergy in increasing 2x times. Nova is just too pale in compare. Mu suggestion: Reduce cost to 200 ultimates.

---

Restoring Light line
Breath of Life - tbh i am not sad of this change as i planned to switch to Honor the Dead anyway, but anyway zos showed how bad they understand templars. They nerfed templars before so only max potential build was healbotting, now they screwed healboting and didn't give anything in return... Overall BoL was heavily nerfed however cost of spell remained the same, how is it even possible?!!! It need serious rework
Honor the Dead - after nerf hammer for BoL and buffing DKs i don't see a single reason not to switch to this morph. My only suggestion is to give back previous mana return: from 60% to 72% and probably make it stackable read my Light Weaver idea. Also add visual of floating essence round caster so it would be possible to determine if mana return proced without addons.
Healing Ritual - another bad skill and after change of Meneuver, this skill still will be useless. Only suggestions i have for it remove it or transform to self aoe hot aura like xivkin manders in IC.
Radiant Aura - another worst buff ever possible, now this skill is just copy of tri-pot. Only suggestion i can think about is making this skill as self 1 sec cast that restore stamina in cost of magicka/magicka+hp. Sorcs Dark Deal was buffed to be more usefull in PvP.
Rune Focus - overall i like that this skill is unique bround-based self-buff, however it will be harder to use coz buffed siege weapons. However since everyone got buff for mobility i believe Focus should grant speedbuff for 3 sec upon cast, increase duration of armor buff after leaving rune for 12 sec or add Major Evasion buff.

• Channeled Focus - awesome morph coz it is only magicka sustain skill. zos must not change it to proc inside rune only.
• Restoring Focus - i like that zos implemented it as 2 minor buffs, however with terrible mana managment for templars and working only inside rune it is till much more weaker. Suggestions:
  1. Nerf Channeled Focus to work only inside rune.
  2. Add to current minor buffs Minor Heroism buff. Coz templar who dare to stay on 1 place nowdays are true hero.
  3. Remove all current minor buffs and make it work similar to Channeled Focus but make it restore stamina outside rune. It will definelty help stamplars.
  4. Change Minor Protection to 15%, it will also help NBs with their Cloak morph.

Focused Healing - nice change for stamplars overall. I need only 1 suggestion for this. Previously sorcs Empowered Ward' had healing buff in it and it made hands glowing yellow. This was removed from skill just as visual. I suggest to add this visual to templar Focused Healing passive so it would be more visually friendly to see if buff still on you as not everyone use buff addons.
Master Ritualist - nothing was changed so cheesy kagrenac templars still working. I suggest to fully revamp this passive and make it restore 5% stamina upon using Restoring Light skills.
Light Weaver - very week passive.

• Instead of increase duration it should increase Radiant Aura/Repentance effectivenes overall.
• Instead of proccing ultimate with Healing Ritual it should proc while healing under 60% with Rushed Ceremony.

Rite of Passage - like rest of ultimates it is very weak and still didn't get a single buff NB Soul Siphon was buffed. And Dks Magma Armor was heavily buffed too, so Templar ultimate must get same treatment. Just watch on new Magma Armor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViJCt0UTG0w

Anything i can think about is it should restore some amount of resources and grant Major Vitality buff to affected allies. Buff Remembrance damage mitigation back from 20 to 30%.

---

Thats is pretty most of my brainstorming regarding Templar.

Zinaroth

Good feedback @Alcast and @Cinbri, seems we agree on a lot of things!

Ffastyl

Focused Charge has been complained to have a GCD for a while now despite patch notes stating otherwise. From my own experience with the ability, it is a misunderstanding and misnomer on the player's part causing a lack of information and therefore action on the Devs' part. All abilities have a GCD to prevent using abilities as fast as the button can be pressed, in that regard "remove the GCD" is misguided. But Focused Charge is still clunky compared to other charging attacks. The reason behind the clunkiness is the animation for Focused Charge.

Activating Focused Charge, a spear of light appears and the Templar bounds forward to target, divine lance held horizontal, ready to skewer. This charging animation is very satisfying and matches the speed at which charging attacks cover ground.

Upon reaching target, the Templar stops, jumps up and thrusts the spear downwards. Rather than continue with the momentum of the charge, thrusting forward on contact with the speed amassed, the animation pulls to a full stop before jumping upward and thrusting downward. Here is the source of the clunkiness. This animation takes longer to execute than other charging skills available: Shield Charge does a quick power bash; Critical Charge is a swift downward cut; Empowering Chains is fast yank. Among all these quick strike animations, Focused Charge has a slow, drawn out animation that betrays the sense of speed conveyed by the actual charging.

Gameplay-wise, this is a simple reduction of the GCD on the coding/combat end so the Templar is not forced to wait for the drawn out impact animation to complete, but the real cure is from the animation end. Replacing the current strike animation with one more in line with the charging animation, continuing that sense of speed, will remedy the clunkiness involved.

Aionna

I read people in the forums saying that templar healers just spam breath of life and that is true . I use the group finder tool and in most cases I am in a group where people have 14-16k health and stand in red circles and then you know that you can't do anything else but heal like crazy. It isn't fun for templar healers.

The disadvantages of being a templar is 1. the lack of passives giving back resources
2. the lack of damage absorbing spells for the group
3. skills that buff or/and shield the group you are in
It is like templar is programmed to be a healing bot.

After testing on pts Templar is even further behind the other classes.

Mr_Nobody

I just hope everyone sees templars as very weak so they are untouched.

I loved the current state of it in PTS. The style I played it got buffed in every possible way. Yay!

Zinaroth

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

I just hope everyone sees templars as very weak so they are untouched.

I loved the current state of it in PTS. The style I played it got buffed in every possible way. Yay!

What style is that? Magicka Templar standing inside rune spamming Dark Flare on people if they get close and Puncturing Sweep if they get even closer, and Radiant Sweep if they get REALLY close?

Neoauspex

I would still like to see some passive in the Templar skill line that makes it advantageous to use heavy armor, especially since the class shield skill is so miserably ineffective.

Also, since all attempts to make Radiant Aura and Restoring Focus comparable to their counterpart morphs have failed, kill two birds with one stone: make one of them add an extra target to Breath of Life (and possibly other heals). Just some thoughts. I very much agree with the analysis from this community, I hope you all become famous Templar streamers.

Zinaroth

Neoauspex wrote: »

I very much agree with the analysis from this community, I hope you all become famous Templar streamers.

Given the famous streamers are PvPers and given Templars poor performance in 1vX, that is very unlikely, but I will very much try soon.

Zheg

Tankqull wrote: »

Mr.Hmm wrote: »

Long Story Short.

Pack up people and lets change class.

jip switch to sorcs + 1 or 2 targets(with reduced ao dmg valnurability your pet(s)) to increase the impact of AOE caps and deliver hihger healing via your pet than BoL is capable off...

Ashamray wrote: »

Actually BoL is stronger than Matriarch healings. Sorc should have an enormous amount of Magicka to match BoL's strength

sadly not

small test on the PTS:
highelf sorc and templar, 64points into magica, 100points into blessing
equip: molagkena light armor helm + vicous death + willpower + mealstorm resto staff for both (1 slot unequiped)
skills: all class passivs nothing else, on the QB nothing but the two tested abilities no buffs running


conclusion:
matriarch heals much more do to lacking the 50% reduction on the secondary healed person, is cheaper, and (regarding the craptastic equipment) is still stronger on the primary healed target...

That is MORONIC.

Rainingblood

My comments on some of the proposed changes:

Aedric Spear:
Focused Charge: --- What about the CD? If I use Shield Charge, I can IMMEDIATELY cast another ability or swap weapons, but not with Focused Charge... Ever.

Piercing Javelin: --- Good, but how about making it non-dodgable/cc-immune/permastunning like WB?

Puncturing Strikes: --- Nice, but why does this knockback apply cc immunity anyway when the WB one does not? whilst our strikes can be dodged forever whether cc immune or not...

Radial Sweep: --- this seriously does nothing to improve this Ulti. How about making it snare so the pulse will actually hit people? Or add an effect like an enemy debuff? Make this a raid buster so maybe we can actually be a tank that people want to run away from.

Radiant Ward (Sun Shield morph): --- not worth wasting you time changing the code for this... You have taken away all the tanky skills from Templars, so why on earth have a shield that is based on HP?? 1- PLEASE make it scale off the player's highest stat. 2- PLEASE make one of the morphs a stamina morph.

Dawn’s Wrath
Eclipse:---- very nice. Could be better. Nice that it will reflect steel tardnado, but when there are 15 people spamming it, fawget abowdit. Guess it might be good against pewpew snipers tho.

Nova:---- please reduce Ulti cost a little more. Make it worth while to use instead of Meteor

Radiant Destruction: --- Please give us a Stamina morph for this!!! Stamplars shouldn't be forced to go cookie cutter 2H for an execute... It's like you threw a bone to people who wanted to play stamplars, but it's so wonky that ability bars have only a couple Templar abilities because they suck, or don't synergize well/at all.

Solar Flare:--- still so slow and glowy that it's easy to avoid in PvP.

Unstable Core (Eclipse morph): --- see above comment

Restoring Light
Breath of Life (Rushed Ceremony morph): . --- beating a dead horse, but seriously? Nerf our bread and butter?

Healing Ritual:---- I don't understand what this change is even happening. Reduce the healing and make it instant so it can actually be good.

Restoring Focus (Rune Focus morph):--- make this give us shirt duration to CC. No reason to have that on a HA ability when magicka Templars actually don't have the stam to block/cc break/roll dodge for long.

Rune Focus:--- for Pete's sake, can you please just make this ability stick to the player? For longer than 8 seconds? It should behave like an armor ability and also not break stealth like almost every other Templar ability...

*These changes are overall very disappointing. To be good healers, or be able to survive, templars need to use a healing staff... For the healing or for the shield (just an opinion)... Why does this make sense? The class is a struggle to play well, let alone enjoy playing. You have had COUNTLESS great players (many who have left the game out of frustration) try to help you make this class as interesting and fun to play as other classes. What is the problem. Some people ask this, but I seriously wonder too, does anyone at the company play this class? If the do and they think its a good class, then maybe you shouldn't listen to them.

Please... Reread the insane amount of Templar feedback your community has given you and rework these changes... It's not just about a few bugs... Make Templars fun again!

DHale

guys and gals Templar abilities should not be totally dependent on cp to make up for nerfs. A Templar jab does not do anywhere near the damage of surprise attack or concealed weapon. In less than one second a nb can do twice the damage of our main damage ability and its a channeled ability. Some of us would play or a least consider playing on non cp campaigns. I know some of you will tough it out. I respect that but if some of this s makes it to live I can't see playing my 2000 hour plus Templar anymore. It's just not going to be comparable in any way to the other classes.

cazlonb16_ESO

Zheg wrote: »

That is MORONIC.

Yet somehow not surprising at all

Joy_Division

Zinaroth wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

I just hope everyone sees templars as very weak so they are untouched.

I loved the current state of it in PTS. The style I played it got buffed in every possible way. Yay!

What style is that? Magicka Templar standing inside rune spamming Dark Flare on people if they get close and Puncturing Sweep if they get even closer, and Radiant Sweep if they get REALLY close?

Mr. Nobody is actually correct. I've bumped into him on the NA server and his build is designed around offense and putting pressure on his opponents. Templars who play this style will be able to burst down their opponent quicker and easier if this patch goes live. Offensively, I think it is difficult to argue that we (at least magicka templars, I won't comment on stam since I'm not familiar with their game-play) didn't get a boost here.

None of this discounts that our bad skills are still bad, our resource management is still lacking, or that our ability to sustain/mitigate hasn't taken a huge hit. But if your playstyle involves bursting opponents with charge/jabs/pros det/beam, that is going to be easier to do. Just be prepared to hit the "rez at wayshrine" button more often

Kevmeister

Tankqull wrote: »

small test on the PTS:
highelf sorc and templar, 64points into magica, 100points into blessing
equip: molagkena light armor helm + vicous death + willpower + mealstorm resto staff for both (1 slot unequiped)
skills: all class passivs nothing else, on the QB nothing but the two tested abilities no buffs running


conclusion:
matriarch heals much more do to lacking the 50% reduction on the secondary healed person, is cheaper, and (regarding the craptastic equipment) is still stronger on the primary healed target...

Wow, Sorcs would definitely do a better job at 'oh ***' heals now, even more than the Templar could with this PTS. Not only does it cost lesser to activate the heals, it heals itself and TWO other targets for the SAME amount.

Breath of Life should be renamed to Fart of Despair.

hedna123b14_ESO

BalticBlues wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

The complaints about templar nerfs are hysterical.

You do not seem to know the meaning of the word "hysterical".
The reactions and statements in this thread are sober, based on years of experience.

PUGS will die in PvE dungeons because of the PvP BOL nerf.

I like healing random dungeons groups scaled to V16. It's like black box gaming.
I did it just yesterday over 3 hours for fun, result: ca. 80% success, 20% failure.
With the massive BOL nerf, the result would have been much worse.
BOL is costly, but an essential life saver in case of mass damage (think of vet Darkshade).

The BOL nerf will give random players a miserable PvE experience.
I wonder how often PvP BOL critics run PvE dungeons with PUGS?
With the 25% BOL nerf, I will probably no longer heal random groups.

Holy-Dope wrote: »

"Sad" Time to Delete my templar. He has survived enough through all the BS class changes to him all this time and still be able to make the *whatever* good out of it he could.

Any suggestions, what I should play now (except sorc)...

Cant speak about PvP since I don't PvP...but in trials Magicka templars will be pulling some of the highest numbers in the game...possibly highest...you just have to spec yourself properly and play well... We completed the new trial on normal last night - I was pulling 23k+ on bosses while learning mechanics and messing up rotation...We also got the first vet boss to 40% (only had two attempts before we had to disband)...pretty sure on vet 25-30k is doable....maybe as high as 35k...

Ffastyl

In regards to Eclipse.

Each class designed to stand their ground rather than dance about require a means to effectively and efficiently handle ranged and kiting enemies. Dragonknights have Reflective Scales and Unrelenting Chains (and Dark Talons for melee kiters). Templars have Eclipse. Yes, Eclipse is an inconsistent skill possessing immense power (infinite reflects) and the lowest 'stick' rate. It does need a rework into something Templars can use to shut down enemies that choose to stay far away. But replace Eclipse with Blinding Light? Blinding Light is a melee counter. It would be one step forward and one step back.



In regards to Blinding Light.

I see most people who mention this ability refer to it by the morph Blinding Flashes, creating the notion that this was the better morph.
Blinding Light applied a 50% miss chance to enemies in a 5m radius for 6 seconds.
Searing Light added a small damage effect on cast. In the game's current state, this could be used to de-cloak Nightblades.
Blinding Flashes changed the skill to pulse every 2 seconds, reapplying the 50% miss chance. What was not mentioned in the tooltip is the duration of the miss chance debuff was also reduced to 2 seconds, requiring you maintain the enemy in that 5m radius for at least 4 seconds to get the full 6 seconds provided by the base skill.


In regards to returning Blinding Light.

A possible iteration of Blinding Light that would be a powerful defense on its own without being as powerful as the original version is to have the ability apply Major Evasion (20% dodge chance) to the caster for 15 seconds and a 10% miss chance to enemies within 6m for 5 seconds with a cost of 4200 Magicka and a visual aura similar to

Making the visual aura so bright and eye catching is an offset to the 10% miss chance applied to enemies by painting the Templar as a bullseye. Each rank can decrease the cost:

• Rank I - 4200 Magicka (4032 w/ Restoring Spirit)
• Rank II - 4100 Magicka (3936 w/ Restoring Spirit)
• Rank III - 4000 Magicka (3840 w/ Restoring Spirit)
• Rank IV - 3900 Magicka (3744 w/ Restoring Spirit)

The morphs can be Searing Light (damage enemies in a 6m radius) and Radiant Light (increase radius and add snare, increase cost) (Blinding Flashes would require increasing debuff time to have even intervals and increasing debuff time imbalances Blinding Light):

Searing Light
• Rank I - 1000* magic damage
• Rank II - 1200* magic damage
• Rank III - 1400* magic damage
• Rank IV - 1600* magic damage
  * damage is based off 10k Max Magicka and 1.5k Spell Damage. Impulse is 1.7k at these values.

Radiant Light
• Rank I - 7m radius, 15% snare for 5 seconds, 4000 Magicka (3840 w/ Restoring Spirit)
• Rank II - 7m radius, 20% snare for 5 seconds
• Rank III - 8m radius, 25% snare for 5 seconds
• Rank IV - 8m radius, 30% snare for 5 seconds
  Increasing the radius by 1m per rank has the final radius at 10m, encroaching on medium range when the intent is a close range counter. Reducing the base radius to compensate would put it at 4m, a barely workable radius.

The Major Evasion component keeps Blinding Light as a viable defense against attacks of all ranges while the miss chance in melee range attunes it to the intent of being a melee counter. The dodge chance for the caster given both Major Evasion and 10% miss chance is

20% + 10% = 30% (if additive) 1 - (0.9 * 0.8) = 28% (if multiplicative)

Not frustrating numbers like 50% but higher than other classes can achieve, potentially providing Templar with another iconic skill. The high cost and short miss chance duration is to deter it from being consistently reapplied. At ~4k Magicka, a 15 second Major Evasion is a good trade off but as seen in Blazing Shield, too high a cost for repeated usage in the short duration to maintain the additional 10% miss chance.

An outlier to this cost model is Light Armor. Reducing spell cost by 21% at 7 pieces, Blinding Light and morphs would cost 2925 Magicka. This is drastically lower than the cost for Medium Armor and Heavy Armor, the builds that will need this defense the most. Light Armor is low on Physical Resistance however, and Blinding Light requires being in melee range to achieve its full effect. Time and testing will tell if the risk is balanced for Light Armor.

hedna123b14_ESO

Dovahmiim wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

The complaints about templar nerfs are hysterical. Across the board, almost all damage sources were buffed.

The only "nerfed" skill was BoL -- and yeah, it was needed. 28m, insta-heal, 3 targets, ignore LoS, 15k+? Please. Even with only 2 targets its still good.

Other stuff:
1. Healing ritual is still bad. Skill needs to be scraped.
2. Radial Sweep should probably be 9m at least. It would be a great ultimate if so.
3. The eclipse changes seem wonky.
4. Will toppling charge remain working? Only time will tell.

Actually several other Templar-specific and/or general changes result in Templar being nerfed significantly. I have outlined a selection of these in my above post. Not only that, but we are now arguably behind the DK class as a whole, putting us in dead last for all facets of the game, both PvP and PvE. I have already spent significant time in the PTS, there is absolutely no reason to have a Templar in group anymore, other classes fill each role better.

I have mained a Templar since launch, and even I agree that in PvP, the smart heal component of BoL is OP. Just because our class is weak comparatively does not mean we can ignore something if it is broken. The fix ZoS have chosen however render Templers significantly less useful in PvE, and puts us as 2nd or even 3rd (for most max-level content) as healers. The BoL nerf is an ineffective, poorly thought out fix that achieves nothing but frustration.

As for our buffed damage, for instance, Dark Flare was buffed damage wise, and that wasn't what we wanted at all. For Dark Flare to be a viable PvP skill for a ranged Templar build, we needed a reduced cast time or faster travel time, we got neither. Dark Flare is outdone by Jabs for PvE DPS, so this "buff" achieves very little. Several of the other changes, such as with Sun Fire, were welcome, however nobody will use this skill even with it's buff, as Inner Light is still a clearly better option.

So basically, all the buffs given to our class will go unused, with the exception of the Major Mending adjustment, this was a good change. As a result, we are effectively left with more nerfs than buffs, especially from a PvP'ers perspective. This total error in judgement by the ZoS developers responsible for these changes is not final, however, as there is a very slim chance they will read this feedback thread and reconsider certain choices... so of course we are going to be "hysterical".

Dark Flare > Jabs if you spec right...

CP5

Ffastyl wrote: »

In regards to Eclipse.

Each class designed to stand their ground rather than dance about require a means to effectively and efficiently handle ranged and kiting enemies. Dragonknights have Reflective Scales and Unrelenting Chains (and Dark Talons for melee kiters). Templars have Eclipse. Yes, Eclipse is an inconsistent skill possessing immense power (infinite reflects) and the lowest 'stick' rate. It does need a rework into something Templars can use to shut down enemies that choose to stay far away. But replace Eclipse with Blinding Light? Blinding Light is a melee counter. It would be one step forward and one step back.



In regards to Blinding Light.

I see most people who mention this ability refer to it by the morph Blinding Flashes, creating the notion that this was the better morph.
Blinding Light applied a 50% miss chance to enemies in a 5m radius for 6 seconds.
Searing Light added a small damage effect on cast. In the game's current state, this could be used to de-cloak Nightblades.
Blinding Flashes changed the skill to pulse every 2 seconds, reapplying the 50% miss chance. What was not mentioned in the tooltip is the duration of the miss chance debuff was also reduced to 2 seconds, requiring you maintain the enemy in that 5m radius for at least 4 seconds to get the full 6 seconds provided by the base skill.


In regards to returning Blinding Light.

A possible iteration of Blinding Light that would be a powerful defense on its own without being as powerful as the original version is to have the ability apply Major Evasion (20% dodge chance) to the caster for 15 seconds and a 10% miss chance to enemies within 6m for 5 seconds with a cost of 4200 Magicka and a visual aura similar to

Making the visual aura so bright and eye catching is an offset to the 10% miss chance applied to enemies by painting the Templar as a bullseye. Each rank can decrease the cost:

• Rank I - 4200 Magicka (4032 w/ Restoring Spirit)
• Rank II - 4100 Magicka (3936 w/ Restoring Spirit)
• Rank III - 4000 Magicka (3840 w/ Restoring Spirit)
• Rank IV - 3900 Magicka (3744 w/ Restoring Spirit)

The morphs can be Searing Light (damage enemies in a 6m radius) and Radiant Light (increase radius and add snare, increase cost) (Blinding Flashes would require increasing debuff time to have even intervals and increasing debuff time imbalances Blinding Light):

Searing Light
• Rank I - 1000* magic damage
• Rank II - 1200* magic damage
• Rank III - 1400* magic damage
• Rank IV - 1600* magic damage
  * damage is based off 10k Max Magicka and 1.5k Spell Damage. Impulse is 1.7k at these values.

Radiant Light
• Rank I - 7m radius, 15% snare for 5 seconds, 4000 Magicka (3840 w/ Restoring Spirit)
• Rank II - 7m radius, 20% snare for 5 seconds
• Rank III - 8m radius, 25% snare for 5 seconds
• Rank IV - 8m radius, 30% snare for 5 seconds
  Increasing the radius by 1m per rank has the final radius at 10m, encroaching on medium range when the intent is a close range counter. Reducing the base radius to compensate would put it at 4m, a barely workable radius.

The Major Evasion component keeps Blinding Light as a viable defense against attacks of all ranges while the miss chance in melee range attunes it to the intent of being a melee counter. The dodge chance for the caster given both Major Evasion and 10% miss chance is

20% + 10% = 30% (if additive) 1 - (0.9 * 0.8) = 28% (if multiplicative)

Not frustrating numbers like 50% but higher than other classes can achieve, potentially providing Templar with another iconic skill. The high cost and short miss chance duration is to deter it from being consistently reapplied. At ~4k Magicka, a 15 second Major Evasion is a good trade off but as seen in Blazing Shield, too high a cost for repeated usage in the short duration to maintain the additional 10% miss chance.

An outlier to this cost model is Light Armor. Reducing spell cost by 21% at 7 pieces, Blinding Light and morphs would cost 2925 Magicka. This is drastically lower than the cost for Medium Armor and Heavy Armor, the builds that will need this defense the most. Light Armor is low on Physical Resistance however, and Blinding Light requires being in melee range to achieve its full effect. Time and testing will tell if the risk is balanced for Light Armor.

Thing is ZOS removed the miss chance debuff since it was far to difficult to balance the game around (they could just put a damage debuff on miss immune mobs but still), but the snare+evasion does sound like a very useful skill to put on most builds.

hedna123b14_ESO

danno8 wrote: »

Also, if you do the math, Vampires Bane has less DPS than reflective Light.

On my Templar: Refelctive = 6148/6.5 = 946 DPS
Vampires Bane = 10296/11.7s = 880 DPS

And Reflective Light also hits for more up front for some reason. ZoS is it really that hard to make the single target version of this skill do more damage than the multi target version? Come on now...

If you are talking about DPS for PvP then it may be better, but for PvE you need most damage that you dont have to refresh as often in order to make the rotation as easy as possible, thus Vamb bane which has a higher duration as well as overall damage is a much better skill for PvE...

As a reference, on a template toon:
Vamp Bane - 1941 flame damage on initial hit, then 5058 flame damage over 11.7 seconds
Reflective light - 1941 flame damage on inital hit and 3112 over 6.5 seconds

WillhelmBlack

I was wrong on Templar this update, hadn't tested it until yesterday. The skill buffs are great they really are. But the class has no defence with the removal of block cancelling.

Come March, I will be leaving the game because it seems this change is very popular and will be going live. Even got called for being a bad player because I use animation cancelling. Lazy cheese playstyle apparently, I thought it was skill. Looks like the general dumbing down of the game is also very popular.

Templar takes a bit of skill to play in Cyrodiil, I'm not gonna re-roll. You can have my stuff.

Ffastyl

CP5 wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

In regards to Eclipse.

Each class designed to stand their ground rather than dance about require a means to effectively and efficiently handle ranged and kiting enemies. Dragonknights have Reflective Scales and Unrelenting Chains (and Dark Talons for melee kiters). Templars have Eclipse. Yes, Eclipse is an inconsistent skill possessing immense power (infinite reflects) and the lowest 'stick' rate. It does need a rework into something Templars can use to shut down enemies that choose to stay far away. But replace Eclipse with Blinding Light? Blinding Light is a melee counter. It would be one step forward and one step back.



In regards to Blinding Light.

I see most people who mention this ability refer to it by the morph Blinding Flashes, creating the notion that this was the better morph.
Blinding Light applied a 50% miss chance to enemies in a 5m radius for 6 seconds.
Searing Light added a small damage effect on cast. In the game's current state, this could be used to de-cloak Nightblades.
Blinding Flashes changed the skill to pulse every 2 seconds, reapplying the 50% miss chance. What was not mentioned in the tooltip is the duration of the miss chance debuff was also reduced to 2 seconds, requiring you maintain the enemy in that 5m radius for at least 4 seconds to get the full 6 seconds provided by the base skill.


In regards to returning Blinding Light.

A possible iteration of Blinding Light that would be a powerful defense on its own without being as powerful as the original version is to have the ability apply Major Evasion (20% dodge chance) to the caster for 15 seconds and a 10% miss chance to enemies within 6m for 5 seconds with a cost of 4200 Magicka and a visual aura similar to

Making the visual aura so bright and eye catching is an offset to the 10% miss chance applied to enemies by painting the Templar as a bullseye. Each rank can decrease the cost:

• Rank I - 4200 Magicka (4032 w/ Restoring Spirit)
• Rank II - 4100 Magicka (3936 w/ Restoring Spirit)
• Rank III - 4000 Magicka (3840 w/ Restoring Spirit)
• Rank IV - 3900 Magicka (3744 w/ Restoring Spirit)

The morphs can be Searing Light (damage enemies in a 6m radius) and Radiant Light (increase radius and add snare, increase cost) (Blinding Flashes would require increasing debuff time to have even intervals and increasing debuff time imbalances Blinding Light):

Searing Light
• Rank I - 1000* magic damage
• Rank II - 1200* magic damage
• Rank III - 1400* magic damage
• Rank IV - 1600* magic damage
  * damage is based off 10k Max Magicka and 1.5k Spell Damage. Impulse is 1.7k at these values.

Radiant Light
• Rank I - 7m radius, 15% snare for 5 seconds, 4000 Magicka (3840 w/ Restoring Spirit)
• Rank II - 7m radius, 20% snare for 5 seconds
• Rank III - 8m radius, 25% snare for 5 seconds
• Rank IV - 8m radius, 30% snare for 5 seconds
  Increasing the radius by 1m per rank has the final radius at 10m, encroaching on medium range when the intent is a close range counter. Reducing the base radius to compensate would put it at 4m, a barely workable radius.

The Major Evasion component keeps Blinding Light as a viable defense against attacks of all ranges while the miss chance in melee range attunes it to the intent of being a melee counter. The dodge chance for the caster given both Major Evasion and 10% miss chance is

20% + 10% = 30% (if additive) 1 - (0.9 * 0.8) = 28% (if multiplicative)

Not frustrating numbers like 50% but higher than other classes can achieve, potentially providing Templar with another iconic skill. The high cost and short miss chance duration is to deter it from being consistently reapplied. At ~4k Magicka, a 15 second Major Evasion is a good trade off but as seen in Blazing Shield, too high a cost for repeated usage in the short duration to maintain the additional 10% miss chance.

An outlier to this cost model is Light Armor. Reducing spell cost by 21% at 7 pieces, Blinding Light and morphs would cost 2925 Magicka. This is drastically lower than the cost for Medium Armor and Heavy Armor, the builds that will need this defense the most. Light Armor is low on Physical Resistance however, and Blinding Light requires being in melee range to achieve its full effect. Time and testing will tell if the risk is balanced for Light Armor.

Thing is ZOS removed the miss chance debuff since it was far to difficult to balance the game around (they could just put a damage debuff on miss immune mobs but still), but the snare+evasion does sound like a very useful skill to put on most builds.

The miss chance could be changed to Minor Maim then, effectively similar to a miss chance.

The snare+evasion was a difficult morph to balance as it can easily become more worthwhile than Searing Light if the additional advantages were not small. (Improving Searing Light's damage makes it a better AoE than Impulse and/or Solar Barrage, threatening their usefulness).

hedna123b14_ESO

Cryhavoc wrote: »

I am not upset about the Breath of Life change. In PvE, nothing will change at all for my gameplay.

In PvP, as a Templar healer, I will now have to use 2 skill bar sets: 1 for solo/duo and 1 for group play. BoL is no longer viable for healing groups larger than 3-4 in PvP (which is fine, mostly). BoL will work just fine for solo/duo, but that is all.

I agree, BoL was awesome in PvP, and probably needed to be toned down. For Group healing in PvP, without using a Resto staff, what will I use instead? Healing ritual? Maybe. Purifying ritual has a buff to its synergy, but I am not sure that will be enough.

My question: without using a Resto staff, how will you heal a group larger than 3 as a Magicka Templar?

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Someone should test if thaumaturge is increasing the damage of jabs/sweeps.

For a jabs based build BOTH Elemental expert AND Thaumaturge buff your Jabs, Vamp Bane and Radiant Oppression, since they are all considered dots, thus running 50 in each would give you 15.6% +15.6%, or 31.2% buff to damage VS 25% if you only max one of those trees.

danno8

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Also, if you do the math, Vampires Bane has less DPS than reflective Light.

On my Templar: Refelctive = 6148/6.5 = 946 DPS
Vampires Bane = 10296/11.7s = 880 DPS

And Reflective Light also hits for more up front for some reason. ZoS is it really that hard to make the single target version of this skill do more damage than the multi target version? Come on now...

If you are talking about DPS for PvP then it may be better, but for PvE you need most damage that you dont have to refresh as often in order to make the rotation as easy as possible, thus Vamb bane which has a higher duration as well as overall damage is a much better skill for PvE...

As a reference, on a template toon:
Vamp Bane - 1941 flame damage on initial hit, then 5058 flame damage over 11.7 seconds
Reflective light - 1941 flame damage on inital hit and 3112 over 6.5 seconds

Yes, but reflective light still has the higher DPS, even if you need to refresh it more. Vampires bane should at least be the same DPS, and last longer, considering it is single target.

IMO it should have GREATER DPS than Reflective light and last longer since it is single target. I get that in boss battles it is better since instead of recasting it at the 6.5 seconds mark you can cast something else, but how hard would it be to make the DPS line-up properly between the two skills?

hedna123b14_ESO

danno8 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Also, if you do the math, Vampires Bane has less DPS than reflective Light.

On my Templar: Refelctive = 6148/6.5 = 946 DPS
Vampires Bane = 10296/11.7s = 880 DPS

And Reflective Light also hits for more up front for some reason. ZoS is it really that hard to make the single target version of this skill do more damage than the multi target version? Come on now...

If you are talking about DPS for PvP then it may be better, but for PvE you need most damage that you dont have to refresh as often in order to make the rotation as easy as possible, thus Vamb bane which has a higher duration as well as overall damage is a much better skill for PvE...

As a reference, on a template toon:
Vamp Bane - 1941 flame damage on initial hit, then 5058 flame damage over 11.7 seconds
Reflective light - 1941 flame damage on inital hit and 3112 over 6.5 seconds

Yes, but reflective light still has the higher DPS, even if you need to refresh it more. Vampires bane should at least be the same DPS, and last longer, considering it is single target.

IMO it should have GREATER DPS than Reflective light and last longer since it is single target. I get that in boss battles it is better since instead of recasting it at the 6.5 seconds mark you can cast something else, but how hard would it be to make the DPS line-up properly between the two skills?

I wouldnt mind higher damage, but as it stands right now for my rotation in PvE Vamp Bane 》》Reflective Light