[Patch Notes] Champion Point cap will be set at 501

  • I_killed_Vivec
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    There's still a problem with this "fix" that if you have more than 501 CP you will still have them in the bank for the next update.

    There will always be a group of people who are maxed, will continue to gain CP. When the next increase to the cap comes along they will instantly have the cap, and will start accruing CP for the next cap raise. Instead of increasing parity and reducing the gap between the player population, this cap mechanism will introduce a quantum leap effect that will introduce a sudden and significant gap between players.

    The real problem is that CP was heralded as "horizontal progression", something the VR haters said the game needed, whereas this was never the case. CP is pure power progression and would only allow for a diverse horizontal progression if CP were harder to get and allocation were more restrictive - so you really had to make significant choices about character progression. As it is at the moment it's too easy to "have it all".
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  • daemonios
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    As someone who never saw the appeal of CP over a normal level-based progression system, I have to say "HA HA!"

    /Nelson

    They listened to people saying VR was broken (it wasn't, they just needed to adjust the amount of XP needed per level). They ignored the fact that people were going to grind CP. They sat on that system and even allowed people to transfer characters to console with more CP than even this relatively high cap (one of ZOS' biggest all-time blunders if you ask me). And now they've panicked because some players have raced more than halfway through a system they intended to last a few years in little more than 6 months since the CP system debuted.

    While I agree this cap is needed considering the state of the game right now, and barring any other more radical solution, I think this is the perfect example of ZOS dev process: inept, half-baked and reactive. I fear for the future of ESO.
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  • Docmandu
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    Derra wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Garion wrote: »
    I think 600 would be more appropriate. 501 seems a little low. While I recognise a cap is necessary, I still think you need something to work towards. Such a low cap doesn't provide this... Particularly given that they are introducing a catch up mechanic.

    600 would be reasonable.

    I was at 580 before IC launch and all I did was pvp in small grp. If this goes live all progression is taken from me for months. I might just quit.

    Let alone that sorc needs 600cp just to max dmg where stam only needs 300... This is Bulls*t

    Look at it another way.. the only reason you were winning fights, might have been because you have 580 CP, while the majority has apparently around 93 on PC... well that and sorc ofcourse...

    talk about easy mode, sorc + 490 more CP ! :blush::smile::smiley:
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  • capcody
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    wow so the pc casusal crybabys are getting owned when they come across 1 of the 93 above 500 cp players and complain i got owned. wow seems like l2p. cp has nothing to do with it, hers a hint.. YOUR BRAINS CELLS.
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  • byrom101b16_ESO
    byrom101b16_ESO
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    Erudition wrote: »
    I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.
    • Average CP on PC - 93
    • Average CP on PS4 - 46
    • Average CP on XB1 - 44


    The problem with your approach Rich is that when you up the cap in a few months you will drive away new players all over again. Plus in the meantime you have alienated everyone who trusted you guys knew what you were doing when you introduced the system in the first place so they worked hard to min-max on that basis and trusted you not to give in to the lazy players who had just as much opportunity to do the work and get the CP but instead did very little and hoped for (and whinged for) a nerf.

    The solution is to make pve leaderboards and pvp campaigns with CP's disabled and also allow an open campaign and leaderboard where people get to use that for which they worked so hard.

    Personally, I would spend an equal amount of time on both campaigns/ pve environments but not everyone will want to imho.

    You characterise people with less points as 'lazy'?

    Ignorance at work... there are a whole bunch of reasons for low totals, and using a lame label like lazy is in fact itself truly lazy.
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  • Derra
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    Docmandu wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Garion wrote: »
    I think 600 would be more appropriate. 501 seems a little low. While I recognise a cap is necessary, I still think you need something to work towards. Such a low cap doesn't provide this... Particularly given that they are introducing a catch up mechanic.

    600 would be reasonable.

    I was at 580 before IC launch and all I did was pvp in small grp. If this goes live all progression is taken from me for months. I might just quit.

    Let alone that sorc needs 600cp just to max dmg where stam only needs 300... This is Bulls*t

    Look at it another way.. the only reason you were winning fights, might have been because you have 580 CP, while the majority has apparently around 93 on PC... well that and sorc ofcourse...

    talk about easy mode, sorc + 490 more CP ! :blush::smile::smiley:

    Well i´ve started with 70CP like everyone at the beginning and earned those CP in pvp. I´ve played in a grp of 3 most of the time. So what´s your point exactly? It´s not like i started with a magical CP advantage and beat other players bc of that...

    Also i don´t believe zos number of 94 for pc by one bit. If they count every account maybe bc they have tenthousands of inactive accountes sitting at ~70 cp from when the system got introduced.
    I´d really like to know the average CP for PC for accounts with atleast 1 v14 that was played for atleast one hour per week in the last month.
    Edited by Derra on October 6, 2015 10:44AM
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  • pmn100b16_ESO
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    Derra wrote: »
    Noerknhar wrote: »
    After ages of QQ in these forums and ranting discussions about this topic, ZOS finally implements a way to somehow limit the differences between players. Hell, they even added a catch-up mechanic.

    But who'd have guessed? *** all over the place again.

    Why do I even bother reading the forums? No matter what they do, people complain.

    I would not have a problem if they actually punished grinders. Sadly me and the majority of my smallscale pvp guild are above the cap that´s about to hit and most of us did not grind apart from the mandatory grind introduced with IC to get materials/jewelry lockbox items.

    So we just loose any longterm character progression and are punished for having played the game. Thanks for nothing i guess.

    So how did you manage to play before 1.6, when the champ system and 'progression' as you put it didn't exist? You still played everyday. This is no different. Just forget CPs even exist and it will be like playing 1.5 again. You are not being punished, you have earned the CPs and are already at cap, congrats. You can get back to the chance of balanced pvp in the months after Orsinium is released. Or are you saying you prefer imbalanced pvp based on time played?
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  • Derra
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    Derra wrote: »
    Noerknhar wrote: »
    After ages of QQ in these forums and ranting discussions about this topic, ZOS finally implements a way to somehow limit the differences between players. Hell, they even added a catch-up mechanic.

    But who'd have guessed? *** all over the place again.

    Why do I even bother reading the forums? No matter what they do, people complain.

    I would not have a problem if they actually punished grinders. Sadly me and the majority of my smallscale pvp guild are above the cap that´s about to hit and most of us did not grind apart from the mandatory grind introduced with IC to get materials/jewelry lockbox items.

    So we just loose any longterm character progression and are punished for having played the game. Thanks for nothing i guess.

    So how did you manage to play before 1.6, when the champ system and 'progression' as you put it didn't exist? You still played everyday. This is no different. Just forget CPs even exist and it will be like playing 1.5 again. You are not being punished, you have earned the CPs and are already at cap, congrats. You can get back to the chance of balanced pvp in the months after Orsinium is released. Or are you saying you prefer imbalanced pvp based on time played?

    You know what? I did not play much in 1.5 bc there was nothing to do. I picked flowers and chatted or dueled. There was no incentive to play apart from raising the arbitrairy ava rank which did get quite stale.

    I´m playing mmos and not shooter/moba type of games bc i enjoy the thought of near endless character progression. If the game does not offer that and on top has barely playable pvp due to lag during primetime there is no point in playing for me.
    Edited by Derra on October 6, 2015 11:19AM
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  • KerinKor
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    Xendyn wrote: »
    I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.
    • Average CP on PC - 93
    • Average CP on PS4 - 46
    • Average CP on XB1 - 44


    Oh wow
    That is Way lower than I thought.
    Yeah, you can't believe everything posted on here, especially from those who have nothing else to do in life but play games and post on forums. ;)

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  • Teargrants
    Teargrants
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    Malmai wrote: »
    Teargrants wrote: »
    Don't see any discussion about it yet, guess most ppl haven't checked the PTS patch notes.
    Champion System Updates
    We have reduced the XP required to earn Champion Points for those with smaller amounts in order to create a fairer gameplay experience. We are also capping the total number of Champion Points that can be spent.
    At this time, you will not be able to allocate more than 501 Champion Points.
    Anyone that has over 501 Champion Points when the Orsinium DLC game pack is published will have all their Champion Points reset, and will only be able to allocate 501 Champion Points.
    You will not lose any points over 501, you just won’t be able to spend them.
    You can continue to earn Champion Points over the cap, but won’t be able to spend them until the next time the cap is raised.
    The amount of XP required to gain a Champion Point now scales with the number of total Champion Points you have.
    If you don’t have any Champion Points, you will earn them very quickly.
    If you have a lot of Champion Points, you will earn them slower.
    All I have to say is that cap is way to low going on into the months after Orsinium release with an undisclosed "whenever we feel like raising the cap" point in the future. Going by the stated "about 2 big updates a year" that was bandied around on ESO Live back during the B2P transition, one would assume that the caps would be increased about every 6 months.

    Can u just please stop with this Egoistic stuff LET the NEW player come to the game and STAY JESUS give them a chance or we might have 100 people grinding CP points at the end !
    This is the sound of someone who wants to be offended, and thus reads meaning into words that isn't there.

    I'm egotistical because I disagree with what the CP cap number is set at?
    I'm trying to force new players to quit the game by advocating a higher initial cap for Orsinium?

    Buddy, you're really grasping at straws here. Now, there's one of two things going on here, either you didn't bother actually reading what I said or you're being intentionally obtuse. Nowhere did I say or imply that newer players should be 'kept down' or whatever it is you're manufacturing to be offended.

    The catch up mechanic with scaling XP costs for CP is the means for newer players to 'catch up'. It's a very good idea conceptually, and I have no issues with it - conceptually, I stress again. Until I see actual numbers, I have nothing else to say about that.
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  • FireCowCommando
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    What bothers me the most about this is how ZoS continuously says with the happiest smile possible on their faces when mentioning the introduction of the cap, "This is going to effect a very small amount of players".

    I never imagined that the small amount of players would include such a large amount of their daily player base.

    It makes total sense to add a catch up mechanic if there are players who are struggling to keep up. However i do not agree with pandering to players who can't even be bothered to burn through their enlightenment.
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  • jcasini222ub17_ESO
    jcasini222ub17_ESO
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    @Derra I'm not a player who needs endless character progression. I care more about the world yadda, yadda, but how would you have felt about spellcrafting as more 'progression'? Not knocking your choices, views or anything. Just curious what a player like you would have preferred spellcrafting or current champ system?

    I really thought this game was fine with vr's and that adding spellcrafting would have been awesome.
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  • Derra
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    @Derra I'm not a player who needs endless character progression. I care more about the world yadda, yadda, but how would you have felt about spellcrafting as more 'progression'? Not knocking your choices, views or anything. Just curious what a player like you would have preferred spellcrafting or current champ system?

    I really thought this game was fine with vr's and that adding spellcrafting would have been awesome.

    I think the game needs more of a carrot on a stick to be entertaining for me personally. I´m mainly a pvp player who occasionally dips into pve. So spellcrafting being mainly a pve and exploring thing would naturally not be that attractive for me.

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  • Mojomonkeyman
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    Derra wrote: »
    Docmandu wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    xaraan wrote: »
    Garion wrote: »
    I think 600 would be more appropriate. 501 seems a little low. While I recognise a cap is necessary, I still think you need something to work towards. Such a low cap doesn't provide this... Particularly given that they are introducing a catch up mechanic.

    600 would be reasonable.

    I was at 580 before IC launch and all I did was pvp in small grp. If this goes live all progression is taken from me for months. I might just quit.

    Let alone that sorc needs 600cp just to max dmg where stam only needs 300... This is Bulls*t

    Look at it another way.. the only reason you were winning fights, might have been because you have 580 CP, while the majority has apparently around 93 on PC... well that and sorc ofcourse...

    talk about easy mode, sorc + 490 more CP ! :blush::smile::smiley:

    Well i´ve started with 70CP like everyone at the beginning and earned those CP in pvp. I´ve played in a grp of 3 most of the time. So what´s your point exactly? It´s not like i started with a magical CP advantage and beat other players bc of that...

    Also i don´t believe zos number of 94 for pc by one bit. If they count every account maybe bc they have tenthousands of inactive accountes sitting at ~70 cp from when the system got introduced.
    I´d really like to know the average CP for PC for accounts with atleast 1 v14 that was played for atleast one hour per week in the last month.

    I dunno, mate.

    PvP and stat progression are 2 beasts that do not fit well together. We discussed about stuff like this ages ago and i recall you agreeing in slightly different context, that PvP should be skill based. A newb with super strong skillz (you know, there`s other pvp games, good mechanics are good mechanics, no matter the game) should always be able to compete with a vet who is just not as good.

    I remember you not wanting the CP system, because of the imbalances it creates. You don`t need that advantage, no good PvPer needs it. Do you seriously play now for your CP progression?

    I mean, didn`t we all play perfectly fine for one year without CP? Or should we all have been quitting because our "work" wasn`t properly rewarded with CP according to our XP earned? I would have to cry and complain every day when applying that logic. But why complaining about something that is "taken away" from you that was never healthy anyways?

    Small example from my POV:

    After a lengthy break I had vacation and played last week hardcore (8h/day). No dedicated CP grinding, just catching up in gear and some pvp through solo play (thanks for the sponsoring btw). I made 30-40 CP in 8 days. Let`s say 5/day.

    So, fulltime playing with my favored style of play (lots of solo pvp) would net me 150 CP a month. But I have a job.

    Realistically I won`t get more than 1 enlightened CP during weekdays and around 6 mixed CPs over the course of the weekend. That`s around 30-40 CP a month. Call me a newb, but I would almost need another year just to get to 500 CP when playing everyday as much as I can due to work.

    Why no sympathy for the guys who lack behind anyways? I mean PvP needs no Cp, it`s pretty much the opposite. PvP needs to get rid of that unbalanced monster.

    Still lots of love @Derra
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  • TalonShina
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    TalonShina wrote: »
    Rather than a cap I think this is the better solution The amount of XP required to gain a Champion Point now scales with the number of total Champion Points you have. get rid of the cap idea but stick with this idea.

    Lower numbers gain it quite fast once you hit say 501+ (just for the sake of the notes) your rate goes down and continues to go down in a reasonable way of course. Catch up mechanic and also not forcing people to bank CPs once they reach the cap only to possible reach the cap instantly when the cap goes up.

    just reposting this because i think this idea is better. i saw the numbers posted but there are people over the cap and people will hit the cap not long after the new DLC because some people are like that.
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  • Blutengel
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    I'm happy nobody is really losing all their hard work and effort and the playing field is now fair. Thankfully we can still earn points even with a cap because that was really my only concern.
    FFxiv has a system I completely despise, you earn tombs from dungeons and when you hit cap for the week you might as well not play till the next.
    Time for reckless audacity and derring-do!~
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  • Gilliamtherogue
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    I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.
    • Average CP on PC - 93
    • Average CP on PS4 - 46
    • Average CP on XB1 - 44


    After the last time you make a regard on the CP system, I've started to question if you really research and think things through before providing some insight. Two or three ESO Live's ago you mentioned you saw a video of a player with absurdly high amounts of resources and made a comment about how you didn't think the CP system would get out of hand so quickly. What you failed to realize is this character was Emperor, and that even with 3600 CP, he wouldn't have been anywhere near the amount of resources he had.

    Now you've come and given us a list of averages, but you haven't provided any information about the research done. How many accounts were looked at? Did each account looked at have at least one Veteran Rank 1 character, so that they were even eligible to have CP? How many accounts are active, and what is the "average" player's play time in accordance to the CP numbers you've provided? What about average CP of a ESO + account vs a standard account?

    When you come along and decide to finally offer some words on a heated topic, you usually want to make sure you've carefully examined the situation to the fullest, so your validity isn't tarnished. I understand you are a busy and passionate person when it comes to handling and leading this game, and I truly respect the dedication you have for your job... But please I implore you to truly sit back and think about things before you make a remark. I'm not saying stick to /lurk on every post, this community wants to hear from you, but we want to also want to make sure that what we hear is something we can trust that is beyond all shadow of a doubt been examined from every angle so we know the choice being made is the right one.
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  • Ballzy321
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    I'm glad they capped it. Hopefully they scale dungeons a little bit. Cp was ruining dungeons because how easy it makes them. Every run is a speed run with trash going down so easy.
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  • ZOS_RichLambert
    ZOS_RichLambert
    Creative Director
    The averages I posted were calculated from active accounts that have at least 1 VR character. (i.e. - can start earning CP) An account is only considered active if it has been logged into in the past 30 days and played the game for a period of time.


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  • Usara
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    So how did you manage to play before 1.6, when the champ system and 'progression' as you put it didn't exist? You still played everyday. This is no different. Just forget CPs even exist and it will be like playing 1.5 again. You are not being punished, you have earned the CPs and are already at cap, congrats. You can get back to the chance of balanced pvp in the months after Orsinium is released. Or are you saying you prefer imbalanced pvp based on time played?

    You are quite right, we did used to play with the CP system. And even though today I am disappointed but this low cap and was tagged by the fanboys and casuals players as a "grinder who doesn't work/have no life/use a bot" (just lol), I knew when the CP system was released that it would be an issue : people who play more would have a more powerful character. This CP system was an aberration from the very beginning.

    And instead of listening from the beginning (from the announcement to the PTS tests with 70CP - then 3600 CP ) where players did say it would become an issue on the future, ZoS still went on with it.

    Of course some people began intense farming, of course there were players who did used exploits (bots I don't think so, bots behavior are pretty recognizable, but exploits, yes, definitely)

    And now ZoS seems to realize when everything is burning that oooopsie ! maybe they did a mistake. Let's bring a bucket of water and point the 490+ CP as the firestarters, no one will be the wiser.
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  • Bashev
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    The averages I posted were calculated from active accounts that have at least 1 VR character. (i.e. - can start earning CP) An account is only considered active if it has been logged into in the past 30 days and played the game for a period of time.

    So the average is around 100 for all the players and the cap is 500. Players will need 24 months in average to reach the cap. I hope that the catching up mechanic will be well implemented.

    Because I can!
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  • terrordactyl1971
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    Businesses always have to keep the majority happy - they are the ones that bring in the millions of dollars. The "loyal elite" that spend 15 hours a day on the game might feel they are important - but their contribution of a few thousands dollars won't keep a company in business.

    The casual majority will always be the most important customer, they pay the bills.
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  • Asia_Skyly
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    I am a hardcore player with a casual amount of time (Work, family, adult responsibilities). 500 is spot on. Thanks! Hooray for metrics!
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  • nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO
    nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO
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    The averages I posted were calculated from active accounts that have at least 1 VR character. (i.e. - can start earning CP) An account is only considered active if it has been logged into in the past 30 days and played the game for a period of time.


    Now see, that explanation seriously validates the number. I guess the player base is much more casual than those of us in big guilds realize.

    Wont change my canceling though since I am what you can call hardcore solo'er and we tend to get a lot of gametime which here equals a lot of CPs.

    It is funny that Orcinium seems to cater to serious solo players.... except that the cap will keep them off playing it he he.
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  • ku5h
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    nimander99 wrote: »
    501? Bad call, this is going to affect way more people than they let on, especially the people sitting at 400 or 350 right now, who will potentially hit 500 soon. Should have been 700 at minimum.


    Maybe you should get something else to do in life instead of playing ESO all day, every day. I have been playing this game for a year now, every day and have 210 CP, so if you have 500+ you have barely any life...
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  • Slurg
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    I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.
    • Average CP on PC - 93
    • Average CP on PS4 - 46
    • Average CP on XB1 - 44

    The averages I posted were calculated from active accounts that have at least 1 VR character. (i.e. - can start earning CP) An account is only considered active if it has been logged into in the past 30 days and played the game for a period of time.

    Thanks for sharing additional info on how you arrived at that number. It seems reasonable to me, as a casual player who has been here since the beginning and has less than 200 CP. I do more in my limited game than just play my veteran characters to earn CP and I know I'm not alone in that (though every guild I'm in has at least one guy who appears to live in Cracked Wood Cave).

    I doubt the hardcore players will believe the numbers, but this appears to be proof that casuals are the vast majority of the current player base.
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  • monkeymystic
    monkeymystic
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    Cap is simply too low almost one year after CP patch launced for PC players.

    They are giving longterm players the middle finger, and will 100% guaranteed lose lots of subs and longtimers over this if it goes live.

    Huge fail in other words, and my guild is already talking about other mmos after orsinum AKA "SLEEP MODE PATCH" launches to send all their subs and longtimers away from their game.


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  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    The averages I posted were calculated from active accounts that have at least 1 VR character. (i.e. - can start earning CP) An account is only considered active if it has been logged into in the past 30 days and played the game for a period of time.
    +1 Insightful for clarifying and therefore validating the sample size. Now if only we knew what the total numbers of "active players" and "active Vet players" actually are... :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
    Wont change my canceling though since I am what you can call hardcore solo'er and we tend to get a lot of gametime which here equals a lot of CPs.

    It is funny that Orcinium seems to cater to serious solo players.... except that the cap will keep them off playing it he he.
    You won't lose those CPs though, you just won't be able to use them all for a while.
    Edited by Enodoc on October 6, 2015 1:34PM
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  • ScruffyWhiskers
    ScruffyWhiskers
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    The chance that a 501+ CP player quits this this game because of the cap is about the same as a heroin addict going clean. If you leave the game it wasn't because they capped your CP. Either you got the monkey off your back or you got drunk and angry one night and deleted all your toons. Crying won't bring those toons back. Customer support might though.
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  • Rook_Master
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    I'm fine with the cap.

    This should have been done back in March, though.

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