The Elder Scrolls Online

[Patch Notes] Champion Point cap will be set at 501

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  • nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO
    nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO
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    b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »
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    If you are going to play Fallout 4, you are going to play Fallout 4. Don't pretend that decision make you do so. And my guess is people like you will come back or will never even leave in the first place if the content is good enough. People that are going to quit probably don't bother posting a bye-bye thread on the forum anyway.

    Well I had planned to wait with playing Fallout 4 until after the Gecko were released. By the time Fallout 4 is over they might have released the next DLC and I can return and have fun again with an increased CP cap. IC also killed the type of PvP in Cyrodiil I enjoyed which was my second reason for keep playing but my guild and the CP system kept me in game through the dreadfull V16 upgrading.
  • maxjapank
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    xaraan wrote: »

    And really, if it effects such a small percentage of players, then why worry about it? You really chalk every pvp loss up to being short on CP and think that you are always running into that one in a million player? Most of us aren't even saying there should be no cap, we are simply saying 501 is a bit low and doesn't give any room to grow or reason to keep playing.

    I think the small percentage of players are the ones with more than 501 points. According to Richard, the average number is under 100 at this point. And though I agree with you that a better player will likely beat me regardless of CP difference, saying that CP doesn't make much of a difference is just not true. The amount of damage done, damage mitigated, and resource regen / used is quite different. In fact, you might even say it's huge.

    I think that the Devs are doing what is best for the game for the majority of players. And I find it silly to think that earning CP is what keeps you playing the game.
  • manny254
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    Justice31st wrote: »
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    Dishonest numbers? You think Richard Lambert is lying and has a hidden agenda? I am not here to debate you on conspiracy theory's and I threw away my tin foil hat a long time ago. This is the last I will be responding to your posts. Good day!

    Because he used those numbers to justify his choice, but did not provide background information about those numbers. If you include all the people that quit this game at launch then yeah the numbers will be low. If you only include numbers from players that actually regularly log in it will be much higher.

    Hate to burst your bubble, but it is almost always possible to work numbers in a way that support your point of view. For example unemployment numbers. They do not show you the entire picture of what is actually happening. Unemployment numbers are based on people actively seeking employment. It would not actually include people that have stopped searching for employment. Pulling up a number only means something within the parameters you draw the numbers from.

    If you pull cp numbers from people that stopped playing over a year ago then the number will be skewed lower than what the actual active population has.
    - Mojican
  • Evandus
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    Justice31st wrote: »
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    Dishonest numbers? You think Richard Lambert is lying and has a hidden agenda? I am not here to debate you on conspiracy theory's and I threw away my tin foil hat a long time ago. This is the last I will be responding to your posts. Good day!

    Listen man,

    I don't believe that he's intending to say that 'dishonest numbers' is directly lying. To me it reads more like making an extended bell curve to do the math. Specifically, if x amount of players (me being one of them btw) haven't logged into the game for many months - including their CP amounts into the actual totals to create an average can be viewed poorly.
  • xaraan
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    Justice31st wrote: »
    show previous quotes

    Dishonest numbers? You think Richard Lambert is lying and has a hidden agenda? I am not here to debate you on conspiracy theory's and I threw away my tin foil hat a long time ago. This is the last I will be responding to your posts. Good day!

    I didn't know you had been responding to them before now, but ok.... I've seen some of your other posts, you seem quite willing to toe the company line, which many fans of a product will do, so it's understandable.

    The fact is that we got no details with those numbers. Many have asked for those details. No reply from zos. It's pretty common sense to question numbers like that when someone gives you them without detail, the fact you would take them without question says plenty.
    -- @xaraan --
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  • xaraan
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    maxjapank wrote: »
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    I think the small percentage of players are the ones with more than 501 points. According to Richard, the average number is under 100 at this point. And though I agree with you that a better player will likely beat me regardless of CP difference, saying that CP doesn't make much of a difference is just not true. The amount of damage done, damage mitigated, and resource regen / used is quite different. In fact, you might even say it's huge.

    I think that the Devs are doing what is best for the game for the majority of players. And I find it silly to think that earning CP is what keeps you playing the game.

    1. Any player that plays as much as those top tier players and has under 100 will never ever catch up. and 2. A million players have pointed out that those numbers lacked major details, like how many players that don't play count toward that. (example: is my friend that still subs and has 75 cp and only played twice in the last six months counted in that number - is players like that are counted, then it's a dishonest representation)
    -- @xaraan --
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  • Funkopotamus
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    MisterBigglesworth wrote: »
    I look at you people arguing about what the cap should be and how fast the catchup should be like you're all rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

    0_O

    But I........

    But.............................................

    Um...................


    Hell I got nothing man.......

    You said it brother..
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  • xaraan
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    Evandus wrote: »
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    Listen man,

    I don't believe that he's intending to say that 'dishonest numbers' is directly lying. To me it reads more like making an extended bell curve to do the math. Specifically, if x amount of players (me being one of them btw) haven't logged into the game for many months - including their CP amounts into the actual totals to create an average can be viewed poorly.


    This ^

    The numbers were dishonest representation of the real average b/c they lacked detail. (Though I do think they were intentionally handed out b/c they looked better for their point)

    But let's say I could tell you this: I didn't play today except to do crafting writs. A dev could jump on, look at my account and say, you were on your character for like five hours today. Everyone would be like, ooooooo, he got you. But leave out the detail that I earned zero xp except for those crafting writs and was just standing in Rawl'ka talking to friends while we watch the stream and talked about random stuff in TS. Sure, the "numbers" were legit that they gave out, but lacking context, it's a dishonest attempt to prove a point.
    -- @xaraan --
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  • tino.antoninieb17_ESO
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    ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »
    I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.
    • Average CP on PC - 93
    • Average CP on PS4 - 46
    • Average CP on XB1 - 44


    These numbers as such doesnt mean a thing till u give us full stratification . Come on u know better than that. Only when u break down those numbers we can learn from them .
  • AssaultLemming
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    Qyrk wrote: »
    But doesn't anyone with OCD is getting a reaction from 501????

    No, 501 is equally divisible by 3...500 would be uneven...
  • maxjapank
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    xaraan wrote: »

    1. Any player that plays as much as those top tier players and has under 100 will never ever catch up. and 2. A million players have pointed out that those numbers lacked major details, like how many players that don't play count toward that. (example: is my friend that still subs and has 75 cp and only played twice in the last six months counted in that number - is players like that are counted, then it's a dishonest representation)

    1. Yes they will never catch up. But the gap won't be quite as large. This is good for the overall health of the game and new players.

    2. A million players? Exaggerate much? Look... Let's just face it. You aren't happy with 501 points. It doesn't matter what information they give you, you still won't be happy. But I bet there are more players who support this change than those who don't. So if you want an honest representation, then you're just going to have to accept that your opinion is not the majority.

  • rfennell_ESO
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    maxjapank wrote: »

    2. A million players? Exaggerate much? Look... Let's just face it. You aren't happy with 501 points. It doesn't matter what information they give you, you still won't be happy. But I bet there are more players who support this change than those who don't. So if you want an honest representation, then you're just going to have to accept that your opinion is not the majority.

    You have just described how "tyranny of the majority" works.

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]
    Edited by ZOS_Brett on October 6, 2015 8:29AM
  • k2blader
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    ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »
    I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.
    • Average CP on PC - 93
    • Average CP on PS4 - 46
    • Average CP on XB1 - 44


    Thank you for that. Wow. Any chance on providing the medians?

    On one hand while I can understand the argument that "people who aren't playing shouldn't be counted"-- what is the line to be drawn to make the numbers more tenable?

    When shouldn't an account's CPs (or lack thereof) be counted? When it has been inactive for.. 1 month? More? It would be kind of interesting to see if/how the numbers change.
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  • maxjapank
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    rfennell_ESO wrote: »

    You have just described how "tyranny of the majority" works.

    Wow. How you can bring racial or minority injustice into a video game boggles the mind. I'd think you'd have a better argument by saying how unpleasant it would be if The Devs let the elitist minority have precedence over the majority.

    [Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]
    Edited by ZOS_Brett on October 6, 2015 8:33AM
  • lathbury
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    maxjapank wrote: »
    show previous quotes

    Wow. How you can bring racial or minority injustice into a video game boggles the mind. I'd think you'd have a better argument by saying how unpleasant it would be if The Devs let the elitist minority have precedence over the majority.

    that didn't work out well in Russia if I remember my history. ;)

    [Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]
    Edited by ZOS_Alex on October 6, 2015 3:39PM
  • byrom101b16_ESO
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    Tholian1 wrote: »
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    But aren't the most hardcore and "loyal" (not sure what makes them more loyal than others, but whatever) of players the minority group? ZoS needs to do what is best for the majority of players if the game is to remain viable.

    It's one of the standard hardcore player tricks to equate playing 24/7 with 'loyalty'.

    Actually, hardcore players of MMOs are more likely to stray to new games, not less, as they content locust and burn out much sooner. They also have far more play time per day to devote to other games.

    In MMOs generally, they constitute significantly less than 10% of the player base, and are most likely to take advantage of freebies - meaning they are a small proportion of the player base and a smaller proportion of player base revenue generation.

    Hardcore 24/7 players tend towards asking for content to be the most difficult, most gated and least accessible, and commonly confuse the advantages earned through time played with advantage gained by 'skill'.

    Of course they aren't all like that, but they trend in this direction noticeably.

    They seem to suffer from a form of collective delusion that an MMO company concerned with revenue generation will listen to, analyse and adjust the game for them, over the majority of the player base who aren't hardcore.

    They also take up a disproportionate amount of forum space with their posts, which are frequently enough laced with the words 'carebear' and 'noob' when referring to non-hardcore players.

    On the OPs' point though... I think 600 is amore reasonable total for an initial cap.
    Edited by byrom101b16_ESO on October 6, 2015 8:04AM
  • RDMyers65b14_ESO
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    Rebeccas04nub18_ESO wrote: »
    I play a lot. Too much in fact. I did the grind to max level for the 70 CP, and I don't think I've missed more than a day or two playing even if it's only for an hour. I only have about 245 CP, according to my PVP guild that's more than most of them. Almost everyone in any of my guilds have full time jobs and families and other obligations. I can't see how anyone has so many CP, I thought my gameplay was bordering obsession,.

    Exactly. Same guild and we run on a daily basis and most of the guild is below 200. The guild is maybe 150 people, I think. There were times when I didn't get any CP no matter what I did. IF I'm lucky, I'll get 1 a day now and I'm online for 6+ hours a day, every day. CP has unbalanced PVP just as much if not more than one faction having 60% of the player base has. Even if you don't want to believe it, Rich's numbers are likely VERY accurate. I know a few people who have less than 50 CP and they have been here since pre-release. Not everything done in the game earns experience. Most people have jobs and RL obligations. A lot of people hate grinding.

    Just remember, those who are posting to the forums are maybe only 10% of the player base. I doubt those over 501 are even 2% of the total active game.
  • Wollust
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    I really hoped for 600 because that seemed to be a reasonable amount allowing you to max out 2 things each.

    Well good thing I can take a break from the game and I know I will always be over the cap :lol:
    Susano'o

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  • Erudition
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    ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »
    I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.
    • Average CP on PC - 93
    • Average CP on PS4 - 46
    • Average CP on XB1 - 44


    The problem with your approach Rich is that when you up the cap in a few months you will drive away new players all over again. Plus in the meantime you have alienated everyone who trusted you guys knew what you were doing when you introduced the system in the first place so they worked hard to min-max on that basis and trusted you not to give in to the lazy players who had just as much opportunity to do the work and get the CP but instead did very little and hoped for (and whinged for) a nerf.

    The solution is to make pve leaderboards and pvp campaigns with CP's disabled and also allow an open campaign and leaderboard where people get to use that for which they worked so hard.

    Personally, I would spend an equal amount of time on both campaigns/ pve environments but not everyone will want to imho.
  • xMovingTarget
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    blabafat wrote: »
    I'm fine with the CP Cap. I was expecting them to cater more towards console players, who(in general) have a low amount of CP.

    I'm glad it's not like 300 or something. 501 is not too bad. I probably won't reach it before the DLC comes out.

    Same here. 501 might be too low for some, but at least it brings back skill. I am fine with 501. But I only have 350 CP as of now. :D
  • Noerknhar
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    After ages of QQ in these forums and ranting discussions about this topic, ZOS finally implements a way to somehow limit the differences between players. Hell, they even added a catch-up mechanic.

    But who'd have guessed? *** all over the place again.

    Why do I even bother reading the forums? No matter what they do, people complain.
  • Fecius
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    Wow, it's a huge complain topic! Again. Seems like what ever Zeni try to do or not to do there will be a bunch of "Oh no! They've ruined everything!" :D

    My 600 CP will w8 for next cap, but i'm pretty OK with this 501 CP cap for now and can relax a bit and play a game and not a grindfest.

    As for stats: ofc they will count "dead" accounts. They are potential customers.
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  • Derra
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    Noerknhar wrote: »
    After ages of QQ in these forums and ranting discussions about this topic, ZOS finally implements a way to somehow limit the differences between players. Hell, they even added a catch-up mechanic.

    But who'd have guessed? *** all over the place again.

    Why do I even bother reading the forums? No matter what they do, people complain.

    I would not have a problem if they actually punished grinders. Sadly me and the majority of my smallscale pvp guild are above the cap that´s about to hit and most of us did not grind apart from the mandatory grind introduced with IC to get materials/jewelry lockbox items.

    So we just loose any longterm character progression and are punished for having played the game. Thanks for nothing i guess.
    Edited by Derra on October 6, 2015 8:38AM
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  • code65536
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    The fact of the matter is, CPs do create a huge power imbalance. Not just for PvP or PvE leaderboards. But also for things like dungeon scaling. You see lots of people saying that they love the difficulty of vWGT and vICP, and each time, I wonder, "And just how many CP do you have?".

    Here's a more pertinent example. Deltia released his magicka nightblade video several days ago. My main is a magicka nightblade, so I was curious to see if he has a different take on it. It turns out he's doing almost the exact same thing that I've been doing with my magicka nightblade, but he was hitting for much, much harder. Almost twice as hard in some cases. How was this possible??
    1. A lot of people forget that CP confer an unwritten bonus: larger stat pools. Every point you spend anywhere in a blue constellation, for example, increases your max magicka. He could run 20K health and 40K magicka. Largely because his high CP gives him stat pool bonuses that are even larger than racial bonuses.
    2. High cost reduction and regen from CP means he can run with 3x spell power enchantments on his jewelry as well as the Apprentice mundus. I run 2x cost reduction and the Atronach mundus because I don't get as much sustain from my CP. This is one of those indirect ways in which CP increases player power, because it lets players run with build setups that would otherwise be less viable.
    3. Crazy high points in Thaumaturge and Elfborn.

    I'm VR16, with 3p arcane Willpower, 5p Kagrenac, 1p Kena, and 2/3p Torug, with all the non-jewelry gear at VR16 gold and with optimal traits, and I've been playing my magblade main long enough that I'm fairly good at it. Yet I can't get close to the kind of damage his pulls because I have only a small fraction of the CP that he has. So the next time ZOS makes a vWGT that's nearly impossible for me, there will be people with high CP, who, with the help of sheer stat power, can breeze through it and chafe at the idea of lowering the dungeon's difficulty--and this has nothing to do with PvP or leaderboards.
    Edited by code65536 on October 6, 2015 8:48AM
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  • Erynyes
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    -xaraan < no way you can let these filty scrubs to catch up to me, i've worked my way up the food chain and they should still be at a disadvantage, i've worked hard to be there, they just been lazy, they could have grind to be on equal footing but they didn't, i'm part of one of the top (small guild) pvp, but i speak for the masses, cuz you know every player who casually play got 500+ like me>

    -ZOS < average player got like 93 CP >

    -xaraan < where did you get those numbers, did you count all those scrubs that barely play (wich probably account for more than 4/5 of the player base) all the players i play with are in the 400 range ( yeah, thats because you're too good to play with pugs i bet), i call BS you should cap it at 700+ so only the top 0.1% get penalized

    -ZOS and community < having 501 CP will not really harm your ability to make a good build, you still gonna be able to dominate the pvp field with your experience and being a member of one of the top pvp (small guild :pensive: ) guild. We just doing this for the health of the game and to let the recent official launch pugs catch up ya know>

    -xaraan < a BILLION player already point out these numbers are dishonest, i know for a fact cuz i'm part of one of the best (small guild) pvp guild in the game. Those who didn't get over 400 CP, it's because they haven't played as much as those top tier players, who cares if they don't have the time and just want to have fun pvpin, who cares if they do have the skills to be competitive and just don't have the time to play like these top tier pvper, we have worked hard to have an edge, i'll rage quit if you remove my PRECIOUS CP>

    -community < not everyone has played the game like you since launch, many of us played a lot and still feel like that CP system is flawed and does not take into account all types of gameplay, sure we could let only the hardcore gamers enjoy the game, but who'll be left for you to farm on ressource tower..>

    -xaraan < i feel dirty, i've spent 5 hours today only chatting and doing writs in reapers march, you know just login in and chat with buddies, doing a couple of intended quest, i should've grind those PRECIOUS CP, cuz you know, i'm part of one of the best (small) pvp guild, and tomorrow, these scrubs may fight back. cuz ZOS is letting them catch up....
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  • Noerknhar
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    Derra wrote: »
    So we just loose any longterm character progression and are punished for having played the game. Thanks for nothing i guess.

    So you played solely for CP and not for fun?
    Weird.
  • Olivierko
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    I'm over the cap and I find this to be a step into the right direction.

    Let's hope this will encourage new players to catch up.
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  • Malmai
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    Teargrants wrote: »
    Don't see any discussion about it yet, guess most ppl haven't checked the PTS patch notes.
    show previous quotes
    All I have to say is that cap is way to low going on into the months after Orsinium release with an undisclosed "whenever we feel like raising the cap" point in the future. Going by the stated "about 2 big updates a year" that was bandied around on ESO Live back during the B2P transition, one would assume that the caps would be increased about every 6 months.

    Can u just please stop with this Egoistic stuff LET the NEW player come to the game and STAY JESUS give them a chance or we might have 100 people grinding CP points at the end !
  • Enodoc
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    AssaultLemming wrote: »
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    No, 501 is equally divisible by 3...500 would be uneven...
    540 would have been a nicer number, as that would be 180 per set and 15% of the total (5% per set). 501 is 167 per set, and is 13.9167% (4.6389%) of the total. This is not a nice number.
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  • Fecius
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    Enodoc wrote: »
    show previous quotes
    540 would have been a nicer number, as that would be 180 per set and 15% of the total (5% per set). 501 is 167 per set, and is 13.9167% (4.6389%) of the total. This is not a nice number.

    Oh, cmon! It's pretty OK. Don't you remember the inventory space that was like 111 or 101 or smth like that. ;)
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