[Patch Notes] Champion Point cap will be set at 501

Tyr

Multavi wrote: »

alright guys soo this 501 champion points thing is bull seriously I work 65+ hours a week and spent maby 2-3 hours a night pvp doing the daily that is it and some nighs I don't even play..... soo people who are complaining about having low champions points and claim to grind are just *** and lieing or they just really suck at this game. I don't think people should just grind out cps like that and be super op but at the same time THE MORE TIME YOU PUT INTO YOUR CHARACTER YOU SHOULD BE REWARDARED FOR IT.all I'm saying it cut the average player some slack give us least 600-700 cps to use and let the baddies or the people who DONT PLAY AT ALL catch up that is all I am saying

You want them to raise a cap that effects less about 1 in 1000 players to a cap that affects 1 in 5,000. What's the point?
If you have 600-700 cp you're in the 0.1% and it's not because other people are "baddies" it's because the average MMO player only plays 10 hours per week.

rfennell_ESO

I guess if you are lower than 501 champ points the response is "glory glory hallelujah". (of course when it makes no difference and you are still getting hammered by experienced pvpers, it will be something else right?)

If you actually spent some time grinding some CP and making sure you never ended up eating enlightenment points that were banked and weren't some scrub feeding xp to people in pvp and instead gaining xp... well 501 is bullcrap.

The "average" player that has actually played the game since March 3rd should have a min of 286 champion points. That's 1 a day from enlightenment on top of the 70 from being vr14. That's the min if you didn't eat enlightenment that was banked...

Now if you actually play the game (and I mean don't do 1 veteran dungeon that takes you 4 hours with 50 wipes as your daily playing) you could easily do 1 CP unenlightened per day. That's 502 Champion points.

I guess that's what they are shooting for, problem is that's for TODAY.

Now same calculations until Orsinium will be 329 champ points if you did enlightenment every day; 545 if you gained 1 additional CP each day (believe it or not, it wasn't hard to do if you actually did it)

That's leaves anyone who plays a bit over the cap (that's not hardcore at all).

Now let's say Orsinium is active for 4 months.

That puts the bare mininum player that merely finished their enlightenment without burning it at 449 champion points, and anyone that did an additonal CP by playing the game successfully in their play time at 665 (again, not hardcore).

But, let's forget the how long orsinium will be active point.

I feel a more reasonable cap would be 700 with the diminishing rate being active at anyone over cap, and that's to cover thru Orsinium.

Now if you were hardcore and actually grinding CP's regularly... they are basically saying "don't subcribe to eso plus". I'm a bit ambivalent about punishing people that grinded CP that are regular players. Yes, there were some that abused the system to get ridiculous amounts of CP, sure.

But, if you enjoy the game and grinded some CP for gold and materials any bit regularly you will be over that 501 by a fair bit. I'm not talking the 1000+ club, I give a rat's butt about them. There are plenty of regular not insane play all day players that are sitting in the over 501 range now, why should they be punished?

[of course I have a little of 600 cp right now, I took advantage of some bangkorai grinding for xp and gold/materials but never did a marthon of it, I just did a little bit a day while waiting in queue or if I had a half hour to play, so I don't claim to be unbiased in this]

Justice31st

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.

• Average CP on PC - 93
• Average CP on PS4 - 46
• Average CP on XB1 - 44

Thank you Richard for taking the time to respond to this forum posts and clearing some major concerns up for us. I tip my hat to you, good sir.

maxjapank

Makkir wrote: »

I guess I am doing it wrong. I usually log in everyday for a couple hours after work. I def don't have 400 CP. I'm like 190 or so.

No, you are not doing it wrong. I've been a pretty active player and am only at about 270. And that's only because I've been leveling a new Alt through the Vet levels recently. I'll be lucky to hit 500 by the time Orsinium comes out.

Personally, I'd like to thank Richard for sharing this information. I trust that they are making decisions for the majority of the player base.

Korah_Eaglecry

Teargrants wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

I'm fine with the CP Cap. I was expecting them to cater more towards console players, who(in general) have a low amount of CP.

I'm glad it's not like 300 or something. 501 is not too bad. I probably won't reach it before the DLC comes out.

That's not the problem, the problem is that the cap will likely stay @ 501 for the next months after Orsinium until the next DLC comes out. Lots of PC players that have played regularly since 1.6 are sitting around 400 CP atm, given another month until Orsinium, and that's 30 more from daily enlightenment alone. How long after Orsinium comes out until tons of ppl are already sitting at the cap w/ the next cap increase months and months away?

A cap of 500 is reasonable currently, but what about 3 months from now?

The problem is that you cant accept that the point of the cap is to slow people like yourself down. So that others can catch up.

I personally think a Cap is the easy way out and a lazy means of dealing with the issue they knew they would eventually have to deal with. But its coming whether we like it or not.


Youre still able to accumulate Points. The only question now is how many people will this turn off and force out of the game.

Sensesfail13

newtinmpls wrote: »

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

. Leaving it fair for the players that have played continually since the launch of the champion system but still giving and advantage to people that have come late to the game.

I have played since just afterward and I have 31.

You can probably tell I'm not a grinder

Not on PC you havent if you only have 31. If its that much of a problem for the consoles they should gear that cap towards consoles and a totally different cap for PC.

Acrolas

newtinmpls wrote: »

I have to ask what is meant by "Average"; I would prefer to hear about the median;

I don't disagree, but I also suspect the median would be closer to 70-75 on PC and 25-30 on console.
The big variable is how many zeroes were factored in, if at all.

Usara

I never grind CP. Never did, never will.
For 1 month before summer, I logged only once a day for fishing/raiding (w/o the xp boost of the raid bosses).
I had to stay away from the game for a few weeks in august and september and missed twice 10-12 days of enlightment (and the IC release)
I do have 5 vr16 characters, but only one of them did levelup form vr1 to vr14 under the CP system.

I have 421 CP.

So without grinding, just regular playing on vr14 then vr16 chars (gold key on 1 or 2 characters a day, arenas before/WGT and IC Prison now, resource farming for crafting writs...) was enough to bring me here.

Lots of my friends and guildies are around 500 already (some of them did grind a little in the beginning but most of them gave up, too boring)

So I can imagine, people who do love grinding to polish their characters, being hard-capped at 501...

I do agree CP system needs a catch up mechanic, but a hard cap - and such a low one - really ?

@ZOS_RichLambert You give numbers with an average 93 CP per PC player. Does it include people who haven't logged in for weeks/months ? Does it include casual players logging in for 1-2 hours a week since the game went in B2P ? It sure looks like.

People who have been playing your game for months (since the release for myself and my guildmates), keeping a subscription for months (when there was no real advantage to it at first), who rerolled/grinded for month (because there was no content and nothing left to do) will soon be capped.

Everytime I think ZoS can't do worse to punish the community that has been playing and supported the game since the release , they just do it. Amazing

Justice31st

Usara wrote: »

I never grind CP. Never did, never will.
For 1 month before summer, I logged only once a day for fishing/raiding (/w the xp boost of the raid bosses).
I had to stay away from the game for a few weeks in august and september and missed twice 10-12 days of enlightment (and the IC release)
I do have 5 vr16 characters, but only one of them did levelup form vr1 to vr14 under the CP system.

I have 421 CP.

So without grinding, just regular playing on vr14 then vr16 chars (gold key on 1 or 2 characters a day, arenas before/WGT and IC Prison now, resource farming for crafting writs...) was enough to bring me here.

Lots of my friends and guildies are around 500 already (some of them did grind a little in the beginning but most of them gave up, too boring)

So I can imagine, people who do love grinding to polish their characters, being hard-capped at 501...

I do agree CP system needs a catch up mechanic, but a hard cap, really ?

@ZOS_RichLambert You give numbers with an average 93 CP per PC players. Does it include people who haven't logged for weeks/months ? Does it include casual players logging in for 1-2 hours a week since the game went in B2P ? It sure looks like.

People who have been playing your game for months (since the release for myself and my guildmates), keeping a subscription for months (when there was no real advantage to it at first), who rerolled/grinded for month (because there was no content and nothing left to do) will soon be capped.

Everytime I think ZoS can't do worse to punish the community that has playing and supported the game since the release , they just do it. Amazing

To punish the community? This was the one of the most requested game changes...

Anasatsudo

This is a pretty bad decision. The best decision would be to leave it un-capped and add in more/different stuff for people to spend on. Here is what I would have done:

- Keep CP uncapped
- Put in a curve based system.. the more CP you have, the more xp it takes to get a point. Just like normal leveling.
- Convert CP points into CP experience and refund the experience
- This would make the 0.1% of players have less overall CP
- This would give low CP holders more CP

But hey, who am I to say, right?

Justice31st

Anasatsudo wrote: »

This is a pretty bad decision. The best decision would be to leave it un-capped and add in more/different stuff for people to spend on. Here is what I would have done:

- Keep CP uncapped
- Put in a curve based system.. the more CP you have, the more xp it takes to get a point. Just like normal leveling.
- Convert CP points into CP experience and refund the experience
- This would make the 0.1% of players have less overall CP
- This would give low CP holders more CP

But hey, who am I to say, right?

But this would still support people botting to farm champion points, and an uneven playing field.

k2blader

I still can't believe the number of people who have hissy fits over this cap. And then their next response is to attack the people who actually live their lives and don't want to grind CPs for a game. You guys need more vitamin D or something. :-)

Usara

Justice31st wrote: »

To punish the community? This was the one of the most requested game changes...

The catch up system and diminishing return on very high CP score was requested.
(EDIT : And to be clear, I do agree this is absolutely needed.)

People asking for a 501 CP cap obviously haven't been playing much and/or not for long. Or spent most of their time here on the forum instead of playing (...or it could be the long loading screens, I admit )

When I say punish the community playing since the release, I do mean it. 70Cp cap when CP system was released, XP from achievements for new players, trophies for only one char (so you are afraid to play on your other toons), people who kept ESO+ for months when the 10% xp boost was the ONLY advantage to it, ZERO content for MONTHS because console development was the main focus... you want more examples ?

Justice31st

Usara wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

To punish the community? This was the one of the most requested game changes...

The catch up system and diminishing return on very high CP score was requested.

People asking for a 501 CP cap obviously haven't been playing much and/or not for long. Or spent most of their time here on the forum instead of playing (...or it could be the long loading screens, I admit )

When I say punish the community playing since the release, I do mean it. 70Cp cap when CP system was released, XP from achievements for new players, trophies for only one char (so you are afraid to play on your other toons), people who kept ESO+ for months when the 10% xp boost was the ONLY advantage to it, ZERO content for MONTHS because console development was the main focus... you want more examples ?

I mean you saw Richard Lamberts data mining numbers report right? You are talking about a minuscule amount of PC players being affected by this decision; not a community. In case you missed it I will quote it below.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.

• Average CP on PC - 93
• Average CP on PS4 - 46
• Average CP on XB1 - 44

Ezareth

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

I guess if you are lower than 501 champ points the response is "glory glory hallelujah". (of course when it makes no difference and you are still getting hammered by experienced pvpers, it will be something else right?)

If you actually spent some time grinding some CP and making sure you never ended up eating enlightenment points that were banked and weren't some scrub feeding xp to people in pvp and instead gaining xp... well 501 is bullcrap.

The "average" player that has actually played the game since March 3rd should have a min of 286 champion points. That's 1 a day from enlightenment on top of the 70 from being vr14. That's the min if you didn't eat enlightenment that was banked...

Now if you actually play the game (and I mean don't do 1 veteran dungeon that takes you 4 hours with 50 wipes as your daily playing) you could easily do 1 CP unenlightened per day. That's 502 Champion points.

I guess that's what they are shooting for, problem is that's for TODAY.

Now same calculations until Orsinium will be 329 champ points if you did enlightenment every day; 545 if you gained 1 additional CP each day (believe it or not, it wasn't hard to do if you actually did it)

That's leaves anyone who plays a bit over the cap (that's not hardcore at all).

Now let's say Orsinium is active for 4 months.

That puts the bare mininum player that merely finished their enlightenment without burning it at 449 champion points, and anyone that did an additonal CP by playing the game successfully in their play time at 665 (again, not hardcore).

But, let's forget the how long orsinium will be active point.

I feel a more reasonable cap would be 700 with the diminishing rate being active at anyone over cap, and that's to cover thru Orsinium.

Now if you were hardcore and actually grinding CP's regularly... they are basically saying "don't subcribe to eso plus". I'm a bit ambivalent about punishing people that grinded CP that are regular players. Yes, there were some that abused the system to get ridiculous amounts of CP, sure.

But, if you enjoy the game and grinded some CP for gold and materials any bit regularly you will be over that 501 by a fair bit. I'm not talking the 1000+ club, I give a rat's butt about them. There are plenty of regular not insane play all day players that are sitting in the over 501 range now, why should they be punished?

[of course I have a little of 600 cp right now, I took advantage of some bangkorai grinding for xp and gold/materials but never did a marthon of it, I just did a little bit a day while waiting in queue or if I had a half hour to play, so I don't claim to be unbiased in this]

Pretty much exactly what I've been trying to say as well. Anyone who had a V14 at launch under 286 Champion points today has actually *lost* enlightenment. That means they earn less than 100K XP a day on average and that is ultra casual.

I actually enjoy the sense of progression given by CPs that rewards the hardcore player and gives them some sense of accomplishment for their play session. That was the entire driving force behind the CP system. The real issue is the people who took the system to the nth degree and earned an amount of CPs that makes them stronger than an Emperor today. It is relatively easy to put a cap in place that still allows normal players who haven't abused the system a sense of progression and not giving them god-like power over other players. The difference between a 350 CP player and a 600 CP player is really not all that large. The difference between a 350CP player and a 2K player is night and day.

k2blader

maxjapank wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

I guess I am doing it wrong. I usually log in everyday for a couple hours after work. I def don't have 400 CP. I'm like 190 or so.

No, you are not doing it wrong. I've been a pretty active player and am only at about 270. And that's only because I've been leveling a new Alt through the Vet levels recently. I'll be lucky to hit 500 by the time Orsinium comes out.

Personally, I'd like to thank Richard for sharing this information. I trust that they are making decisions for the majority of the player base.

/respect

I've been an active, though rabidly (:-) casual player since May 2014. I have 160 CPs.

I didn't hit VR14 til shortly before the IC update and did minimal PvE content. If I had been doing PvE content I'd probably be approaching twice as many CPs. But I have little interest in PvE-- what I've done so far is for skyshards/skill points, gold, and mats.

nimander99

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.

• Average CP on PC - 93
• Average CP on PS4 - 46
• Average CP on XB1 - 44

Caps and catch up mechanics are communist... numbers are fascist.

Also, facts and truth have no place on the forums... I thought you knew better /lurk

Dredlord

Justice31st wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

I have been playing everyday since console launch and I only have 135 champion points. 501 does not feel to low to the majority of us. Finally in the future, ESO elitism will be measured by player skill and no longer just by algorithms.

You forgot animation canceling & macros

Sorry this is true, but animation canceling can easily be learned, and on console macroing isn't an issue.

Yeah it's amazing how much more "skillful" I am on the console with macros not being ng available to other players...

Usara

Justice31st wrote: »

I mean you saw Richard Lamberts data mining numbers report right? You are talking about a minuscule amount of PC players being affected by this decision; not a community. In case you missed it I will quote it below.

And you just keep on quoting "the community" and not "the community playing since the release"

Alright, maybe we are not a community anymore since there is so few of us left. So let's say "players".
And like I said, I saw the numbers, so I will quote myself :

Usara wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert You give numbers with an average 93 CP per PC player. Does it include people who haven't logged in for weeks/months ? Does it include casual players logging in for 1-2 hours a week since the game went in B2P ? It sure looks like.

Lots of my friends logged once when the game became B2P, then maybe once when IC was released. So yeah, those guys must have between 40 and 70 CP. Are they playing ESO ? No. Still I'm pretty sure they are included in @ZOS_RichLambert numbers.

So yeah, the few players that have been playing without interruption or close, just playing, not grinding, are around 450-500 CP. Whether you like it or not. It's just a fact.
Those few players are punished.

I'll just stop my ranting, it doesn't help in any case, does it ?

I will cancel my subscription though. Don't need that xp boost anymore, and in a few weeks IC will be empty so...

ssewallb14_ESO

Love it.

love it love it love it

RIP grind2win.

And the tears are as deliciously salty as I'd imagined.

Usara

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Love it.

love it love it love it

RIP grind2win.

And the tears are as deliciously salty as I'd imagined.

Tears are salty yeah, especially the tears of players who never grinded.

Ezareth

Usara wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Love it.

love it love it love it

RIP grind2win.

And the tears are as deliciously salty as I'd imagined.

Tears are salty yeah, especially the tears of players who never grinded.

Sounds like someone took his stones and he's still looking to point a finger in the wrong place.

Justice31st

Usara wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Love it.

love it love it love it

RIP grind2win.

And the tears are as deliciously salty as I'd imagined.

Tears are salty yeah, especially the tears of players who never grinded.

Sorry Usara, but Richard Lamberts' numbers don't lie. Soon the "community" will become whole again, no longer will we be torn apart by those community of players who played from the beginning, those community of players who don't work, and those community of players who only grind using bots.

maxjapank

Usara wrote: »

I'll just stop my ranting, it doesn't help in any case, does it ?

Not really. Nope.

Dredlord

Forcebuster wrote: »

So basically with the 500 cp cap zenimax is babysitting new players, just like they did with the imperial city damage reduction. If you dont have time to react or break cc you deserve to die. The new thing is" if you started today it's ok buddy you will be as good as someone who played this game for 2 years just buy our new 100% exp pots." People asked for progression, now zenimax is taking that away from people, I feel bad for the people that actually bought 100-200 scrolls and spent a lot of time grinding or playing the game all day only for Zenimax to say im sorry ill have to stop you cuz there are new players that gotta be better than you. I am sure everyone will complain in a month because everyone will be above 500.
also @ZOS_RichLambert ofcourse the cap you guys suggest will affect small amount of people but those small amount of people are probably the most dedicated players that played this game since beta. its like throwing olds toys and replacing them with the new ones that will spend more $$

It's elit

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.

• Average CP on PC - 93
• Average CP on PS4 - 46
• Average CP on XB1 - 44

This seems highly unlikely to me. Perhaps I am way off though.

What is the averages for accounts active in the last week or month?

Are you including accounts not active since before cp implementation?

FireCowCommando

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.

• Average CP on PC - 93
• Average CP on PS4 - 46
• Average CP on XB1 - 44

Since this is the user data that your decisions are being based off of, i am starting to believe this game is not designed for a serious MMORPG player who logs a few hours each day.

When i saw enlightenment i figured i should be burning through at least 100k exp each day, an assumption i regret.

ekobmx

As i said in another part of the forum CP Cap should be 900, why have the spend 300 CP in each tree Achievement if we cant even do it?

Justice31st

What Deltias had to say about the new champion point cap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpYDKTloVUg

MisterBigglesworth

Teargrants wrote: »

That's nice and all, how about you include some more information w/ those statistics so that the player community can actually extrapolate useful information from it? Because Just that seems like a PR stunt.

Please tell us:
- Are those averages arrived at from calculating based on EVERY SINGLE ACCOUNT IN THE GAME, regardless of account activity? If not, then what criteria did you use to select your sample?
- Did you eliminate outliers for this calculations (ie. accounts w/ 0 CP)?
- How do your calculations for PC take into account the fact that vet accounts were automatically given up to 70 free CP in 1.6? This would result in many many many inactive PC accounts having up to 70 CP, skewing any 'average' calculation that included them.
- Aside from the Mean, what is the Median?

What are you, some kinda Microsoft Excel Wizard?!
All of that sound waaaaay too complicated!

Sausage

Shouldnt they reward those who are at the cap fastest. Gold would do it at the beginning. Interesting to see how this is going to play out. I never imagined they do it like this.