[Patch Notes] Champion Point cap will be set at 501

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

for those praising a reduced CP grind, should probably check out the new gear grind....

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222451/official-feedback-thread-for-crafting-node-scaling/p1

which is more rewarding- gear grind, or CP grind?

personally i rather have the CP grind, that follows my toon, than a gear grind that changes most often over shorter periods of time...

Grunim

Thanks Rich

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

for those praising a reduced CP grind, should probably check out the new gear grind....

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222451/official-feedback-thread-for-crafting-node-scaling/p1

which is more rewarding- gear grind, or CP grind?

personally i rather have the CP grind, that follows my toon, than a gear grind that changes most often over shorter periods of time...

I would prefer no grind at all and I play games less for a reward and more to have an experience and I don't mean experience points when I use the E word. I do a little grinding (to me that means doing content I may not enjoy and sometimes more than once) because it's a necessary evil that allows me to enjoy various game encounters, but do I play for the carrots, hell no!

I like their newest CP formula compared to their first PTS iteration. My hope is that whatever system they use, they look at what will provide an enjoyable game experience for the most amount of people. Hopefully that includes me too.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Grunim wrote: »

Thanks Rich

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

for those praising a reduced CP grind, should probably check out the new gear grind....

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222451/official-feedback-thread-for-crafting-node-scaling/p1

which is more rewarding- gear grind, or CP grind?

personally i rather have the CP grind, that follows my toon, than a gear grind that changes most often over shorter periods of time...

I would prefer no grind at all and I play games less for a reward and more to have an experience and I don't mean experience points when I use the E word. I do a little grinding (to me that means doing content I may not enjoy and sometimes more than once) because it's a necessary evil that allows me to enjoy various game encounters, but do I play for the carrots, hell no!

I like their newest CP formula compared to their first PTS iteration. My hope is that whatever system they use, they look at what will provide an enjoyable game experience for the most amount of people. Hopefully that includes me too.

im gonna assume you didn't read the thread i linked....

Grunim

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Grunim wrote: »

Thanks Rich

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

for those praising a reduced CP grind, should probably check out the new gear grind....

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222451/official-feedback-thread-for-crafting-node-scaling/p1

which is more rewarding- gear grind, or CP grind?

personally i rather have the CP grind, that follows my toon, than a gear grind that changes most often over shorter periods of time...

I would prefer no grind at all and I play games less for a reward and more to have an experience and I don't mean experience points when I use the E word. I do a little grinding (to me that means doing content I may not enjoy and sometimes more than once) because it's a necessary evil that allows me to enjoy various game encounters, but do I play for the carrots, hell no!

I like their newest CP formula compared to their first PTS iteration. My hope is that whatever system they use, they look at what will provide an enjoyable game experience for the most amount of people. Hopefully that includes me too.

im gonna assume you didn't read the thread i linked....

Your assumption is incorrect and I even supplied some feedback for ZOS in that very thread on October 7.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Grunim wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Grunim wrote: »

Thanks Rich

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

for those praising a reduced CP grind, should probably check out the new gear grind....

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222451/official-feedback-thread-for-crafting-node-scaling/p1

which is more rewarding- gear grind, or CP grind?

personally i rather have the CP grind, that follows my toon, than a gear grind that changes most often over shorter periods of time...

I would prefer no grind at all and I play games less for a reward and more to have an experience and I don't mean experience points when I use the E word. I do a little grinding (to me that means doing content I may not enjoy and sometimes more than once) because it's a necessary evil that allows me to enjoy various game encounters, but do I play for the carrots, hell no!

I like their newest CP formula compared to their first PTS iteration. My hope is that whatever system they use, they look at what will provide an enjoyable game experience for the most amount of people. Hopefully that includes me too.

im gonna assume you didn't read the thread i linked....

Your assumption is incorrect and I even supplied some feedback for ZOS in that very thread on October 7.

then you acknowledge that the CP grind has been converted to a gear grind. gear gets replaced; CPs don't. so you will spend the same amount of time in the CP system now, as you will in gear with the update. the difference is that you will lose the reward from the gear grind, when the next VR/level cap is introduced. which means you "grind" more/equally for less long term reward.

and thus i ask again, which do you prefer- gear grind or CP grind?

Elsonso

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

for those praising a reduced CP grind, should probably check out the new gear grind....

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222451/official-feedback-thread-for-crafting-node-scaling/p1

which is more rewarding- gear grind, or CP grind?

personally i rather have the CP grind, that follows my toon, than a gear grind that changes most often over shorter periods of time...

IMHO, just about everything trumps the CP grind... including the insane materials grinds. The only thing that makes CP look like fun is ... wait, nope, not that either.

rager82b14_ESO

Well I was coming back to the game because of cp system. Now I don't even care. The thought of a cap pisses me off. I thought at last found a game that does not cater just to casual. I was wrong and now I won't be back. Goodbye.

urkonse

i have 110-150 points so this is good for me. but i dont think lot people in consoles has 500cp yet

AhPook_Is_Here

In the end gear is a better grind than CP. CP grind is find a spot that requires no effort to play and rewards the highest exp/sec and spend as many hours as ones autistic mind can handle before nodding off to sleep doing the same repetitive thing.

Gear grind can be that way too with crafted sets, but if the best sets remain behind content like Maelstrom arena, you have to use your ability as a player to earn them. This can reward players that are good, but haven't dedicated all of their waking hours to grind out CPs to astronomical numbers.

As to the arguments about players with low CP not generating revenue, the game is buy to play. As long as players buy new content high or low cp has a nominal effect on ZoS revenue, assuming players with high CP are making small purchases like exp scrolls and so on that low cp players aren't bothering with.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

lordrichter wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

for those praising a reduced CP grind, should probably check out the new gear grind....

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222451/official-feedback-thread-for-crafting-node-scaling/p1

which is more rewarding- gear grind, or CP grind?

personally i rather have the CP grind, that follows my toon, than a gear grind that changes most often over shorter periods of time...

IMHO, just about everything trumps the CP grind... including the insane materials grinds. The only thing that makes CP look like fun is ... wait, nope, not that either.

i think this is what the new system is geared for. which means one of two things, they don't have a clue what they are doing, or they are going to put gear into the store.

100 hours in gear (a temporary boost) versus 100 hours in the champion system (permanent boost), like it or not i rather put the 100 hours into the permanent boost. every other MMO has the "gear grind" and it gets old fast. especially if they intend to make us do it every 3 months. its not remotely worth my time. if im wearing vr14 gear, the champion system lets me off set shortfalls until i reach my vr16 gear. i say that because vr15 has little to no incentive for me since it just comes off as a waste of materials

id also point out that "exceedingly rare" on PTS doesn't at all transfer well when you add it to a mega-server, with one zone to farm the "best" materials for the "best" gear... if 10,000 players on PTS make resources "exceedingly rare" just wait until you have a competition pool of 500,000 lol

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

In the end gear is a better grind than CP. CP grind is find a spot that requires no effort to play and rewards the highest exp/sec and spend as many hours as ones autistic mind can handle before nodding off to sleep doing the same repetitive thing.

Gear grind can be that way too with crafted sets, but if the best sets remain behind content like Maelstrom arena, you have to use your ability as a player to earn them. This can reward players that are good, but haven't dedicated all of their waking hours to grind out CPs to astronomical numbers.

As to the arguments about players with low CP not generating revenue, the game is buy to play. As long as players buy new content high or low cp has a nominal effect on ZoS revenue, assuming players with high CP are making small purchases like exp scrolls and so on that low cp players aren't bothering with.

gear grinding in ESO is largely, "find a spot that yields returns, with little to no effort." which is the point im trying to make. if it takes 100 hours to grind the new gear, that time is also invested into a permanent boost to character power under the current system- you kill two birds with one stone. if the equation they propose to use is so "great" then you will be at soft-cap/hard cap around the same time you get your gear. what will you do then, after you have your gear and CPs? trials? with the exception to ESO, i have always been a hardcore raider, and ill tell you, raids don't hold the masses that long. dungeons? well if you have the best gear in game, this can be treated like raids, their value diminishes over time. story line? well if you finished gold, silver, IC, then all you get is 20 hours of story line that once you do it you are done. PVP? so you are gonna PVP through the rest of the time to the next DLC?

you are right that a CP count has no bearing on the value of a customer. the difference between low CP, and high CP players, is play time. the thing to keep in mind that high CP players, are typically the ones that pay for a sub, buy exp scrolls or both. low CP players tend to be the DLC hoppers. players like me, fill in a little of both. speaking strictly from a business perspective, you MUST have both a constant cash flow and a burst cash flow in order to ensure the bills are paid, with a surplus. putting a system like this in can kill the cash flow needed to provide for the servers, the developers, the testers, the various departments, and the facility from which this all operates.

being a middle of the road, casual player, i see no need to sub for the exp bonus or exp pots (though i don't buy em because im not a big fan of grinding either), no need to buy the DLC for 20 hours of just story, i can get the mats for VR16 outside of the new area, and i have enough content to get me to the soft-cap. they just lost a minimum of 15 dollars. the question they would have to answer, is how many are in my same situation and how many near or above the cap will they lose? lose from a financial stand point. if they don't meet the financial needs of the company, no one will have a game to play...

AhPook_Is_Here

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

being a middle of the road, casual player, i see no need to sub for the exp bonus or exp pots (though i don't buy em because im not a big fan of grinding either), no need to buy the DLC for 20 hours of just story, i can get the mats for VR16 outside of the new area, and i have enough content to get me to the soft-cap. they just lost a minimum of 15 dollars. the question they would have to answer, is how many are in my same situation and how many near or above the cap will they lose? lose from a financial stand point. if they don't meet the financial needs of the company, no one will have a game to play...

Maelstrom Arena is quite fun, and challenging and the new master weapons will drop there. If you aren't going to buy the DLC I'd check it out while it is on PTS as it is some of the best looking content and world design this game has done so far. It's a nice step up for ZoS. As to their accounting I can't speculate on how they will optimize their profits, I'm sure their MBAs are looking beyond those variables to things like recapturing old business and giving newer players reasonable objectives to shoot for that won't set a bar so high they will be discouraged and leave before providing further revenue. It takes a lot to tune a habitrail.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

being a middle of the road, casual player, i see no need to sub for the exp bonus or exp pots (though i don't buy em because im not a big fan of grinding either), no need to buy the DLC for 20 hours of just story, i can get the mats for VR16 outside of the new area, and i have enough content to get me to the soft-cap. they just lost a minimum of 15 dollars. the question they would have to answer, is how many are in my same situation and how many near or above the cap will they lose? lose from a financial stand point. if they don't meet the financial needs of the company, no one will have a game to play...

Maelstrom Arena is quite fun, and challenging and the new master weapons will drop there. If you aren't going to buy the DLC I'd check it out while it is on PTS as it is some of the best looking content and world design this game has done so far. It's a nice step up for ZoS. As to their accounting I can't speculate on how they will optimize their profits, I'm sure their MBAs are looking beyond those variables to things like recapturing old business and giving newer players reasonable objectives to shoot for that won't set a bar so high they will be discouraged and leave before providing further revenue. It takes a lot to tune a habitrail.

which is all offered in games that are now comparable to ESO, through their consistently poor judgement.

ill say again, if i am only going to grind for gear in a pretty environment, there are many more viable, more long lasting options on the market. im not wasting my HD space on something that doesn't net anymore entertainment value than a competitor that does it better (fewer bugs, better gameplay, better/more raids, more interesting encounters, etc).

return and new customers, aren't going to get a substantial, long term benefit to the proposed changes- they will for this one DLC then its all about catch up afterwards as the game ages and DLC is increased. that's why my proposal was to modify the returns on current quest content, so they have an expected minimum CP gain, rather than risking losing more business by cutting off the ones that were willing/able to pay/play to get the maximum CPs they could. my proposal was specifically geared towards satisfying players that don't want to grind all the time, but still requires some grinding (which can be done.... you know with an inevitable 100hour gear grind). quite frankly i wouldnt even focus on "new" players, but try to implement incentives for return players and, more importantly, current players. a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush....

games with gear grinds
LoTRO
WOW

games with gear grinds and progression systems like the current live champion system:
rift
EQ

my wife and i are talking about returning to EQ and rift. rift takes the lead of the two, because shes still a heavily active raider there. im considering not playing MMOs at all.

that equates to a loss of two players, but ill keep my wife out, since the variables make tracking the financial gain from my wife more complex than the current situation dictates. but what that does result in is a need for them to fill that attrition rate with new/return players.

word of mouth, may make that a hard feat.... their reputation will precede their actions

Ender1310

People want an advantage they want to be able to face roll because the spent their time grinding some zombies. Oh how they will be crying nerf , nerf this nerf that. Be weary if you have a class skill that lets you beat those players that were used to beating you the tears are going to water the earth. I look forward to it.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Ender1310 wrote: »

People want an advantage they want to be able to face roll because the spent their time grinding some zombies. Oh how they will be crying nerf , nerf this nerf that. Be weary if you have a class skill that lets you beat those players that were used to beating you the tears are going to water the earth. I look forward to it.

essentially this.... someone is inevitably going to complain. this won't solve anything, long term. instead of the complaints of the CP grind, its going to be the gear-grind, or "im too weak", this skill is "op/underpowered" or "they ruined the world".... who knows whats truly next to complain about.

and they lose customers as they push these "equalizer, fair and balanced" changes.

Starshadw

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Well I was coming back to the game because of cp system. Now I don't even care. The thought of a cap pisses me off. I thought at last found a game that does not cater just to casual. I was wrong and now I won't be back. Goodbye.

The trend in gaming is that casual players far outnumber hardcore players these days - and what's more, they are often the ones with more disposable income.

If you stop and think about it, the trend makes perfect sense. Oldtimer gamers like myself grew up on pencil-and-paper games, and we jumped into video games right at their birth. We're in our late 40s and up at this point, and subsequent generations of gamers are also continuing to age. That means you have more gamers who are no longer in high school/college, but who are now out in the workforce and who possibly are also married and who may have kids. All of those things eat into the amount of time a person can spend playing a video game. So someone who might have been able to play 10+ hours a day when they were in school, can now only play 10 hours a WEEK. But - they also have a full-time job, which means they have more income to throw at things like video games.

From a business standpoint, who would you craft your game towards - the younger generations who are still in high school and college, the majority of whom are likely to be on limited budgets (if they aren't outright dependent on their families for money), or the adult gamer who has money to spend?

Don't believe me? Here are some websites with statistics for you:
http://www.bigfishgames.com/blog/2015-global-video-game-stats-whos-playing-what-and-why/
http://www.theesa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/ESA-Essential-Facts-2015.pdf

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Starshadw wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Well I was coming back to the game because of cp system. Now I don't even care. The thought of a cap pisses me off. I thought at last found a game that does not cater just to casual. I was wrong and now I won't be back. Goodbye.

The trend in gaming is that casual players far outnumber hardcore players these days - and what's more, they are often the ones with more disposable income.

If you stop and think about it, the trend makes perfect sense. Oldtimer gamers like myself grew up on pencil-and-paper games, and we jumped into video games right at their birth. We're in our late 40s and up at this point, and subsequent generations of gamers are also continuing to age. That means you have more gamers who are no longer in high school/college, but who are now out in the workforce and who possibly are also married and who may have kids. All of those things eat into the amount of time a person can spend playing a video game. So someone who might have been able to play 10+ hours a day when they were in school, can now only play 10 hours a WEEK. But - they also have a full-time job, which means they have more income to throw at things like video games.

From a business standpoint, who would you craft your game towards - the younger generations who are still in high school and college, the majority of whom are likely to be on limited budgets (if they aren't outright dependent on their families for money), or the adult gamer who has money to spend?

Don't believe me? Here are some websites with statistics for you:
http://www.bigfishgames.com/blog/2015-global-video-game-stats-whos-playing-what-and-why/
http://www.theesa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/ESA-Essential-Facts-2015.pdf

you focus it on the median, or the middle 50%. you gotta have something for the top 25% and the bottom 25%. cutting too much of one or the other cuts that median 50% into a smaller and smaller sized group. a change like this impacts the top 50% for the benefit of the bottom 50, the ones at the very bottom 25% will net the most gains, where someone like me at the 25-50% have over all neutral gains. the ones at the 50-75% see lower gains, but still some.

hence my apathy to the game, and concern that they are cutting 33% of their sustained income required to maintain their financial goals. they cut the top 25% with the undaunted addition (previously executed achievements didn't count towards undaunted), then they did it when they released the champion system, now they are gonna do it with the experience/cap. keep cutting your clients down, eventually you will run out of em.

they said that the average CPs were 96, and while there are a variety of factors that play in to this number; ill have to say, either the game is that good to attract that many players (which brings question for a need for changes), to skew the average down to that number (people have done the math and that doesn't quite add up), or the game is in such a bad shape, that so many have left and returned for IC, that the average is that skewed that low. ill also point out that after "reviewing the data" they found that "quite a few players" are around the soft-cap and they raised it to 450(ish). im thinking they actually got around to their due diligence and found they based this new system on flawed data, and doing what they can to resurrect the changes, with out straying from their new "feature". whats gonna happen is 501 is going to come a bit too quick and there isn't going to be enough to keep paying players around. paying being the operative word here...

the cap is presented as a "feature", so my thoughts are they are looking at a bad situation. that's was one of the other reasons, i recommended updating and changing content, as opposed to risk losing part of the client base that clearly has been around long enough to acquire so many CPs. you don't have to like em, but if they are paying some of the bills, then you sure as hell don't want them to go.

SeptimusDova

Ok Khajiit Math time

501 Cat Points tymes 9 lives is hold on I got to carry the one. Telel come back with that one you thief !! ok 4508 until Telel brings back that one.

So Khajiit are capped at . Oh thanks Telel here is some yarn for you. Er humm ah yes 4509 Cat Points !!!

Zeni this mean you owe Khajiit 4008 Cat Points. Plus Moon Sugar plus yarn plus Meow Emote. This will put you in a deficit Pay or Every Alfiq you see will begin to bite you !!!

Iluvrien

All this thread has taught me is that obviously I have been playing the game "wrong" all this time.

I've been playing since PC early access. I've had an uninterrupted sub since then. My character was VR5 when CP hit. Now he is a gnats whisker off VR16 and has 725 hours played on him... and he has 114 CP in total.

That person who posted about being able to use their enlightenment in 10-15 minutes of PvP? Obviously I should be doing PvP, because my usual day is filled with crafting, exploring, questing etc. and quite often I can play for 2-3 hours (which I do most days) and never stop being enlightened.

You can have near-cap CP just by "playing the game"? I suspect you mean "playing the game the way I play it". Not all playstyles are equally rewarded (nor should they be) but assuming that the majority of people share your way of doing things is a dangerous one.

gen_reynard2050

thank you zos! thank you zos! thank you zos!

Champion System Updates
We have reduced the XP required to earn Champion Points for those with smaller amounts in order to create a fairer gameplay experience. We are also capping the total number of Champion Points that can be spent.
At this time, you will not be able to allocate more than 501 Champion Points.
Anyone that has over 501 Champion Points when the Orsinium DLC game pack is published will have all their Champion Points reset, and will only be able to allocate 501 Champion Points.
You will not lose any points over 501, you just won’t be able to spend them.
You can continue to earn Champion Points over the cap, but won’t be able to spend them until the next time the cap is raised.
The amount of XP required to gain a Champion Point now scales with the number of total Champion Points you have.
If you don’t have any Champion Points, you will earn them very quickly.
If you have a lot of Champion Points, you will earn them slower.

why make so many noisy....u still can keep the extra CP, can grind the CP, just spend it later...
I cant wait to see ZOS make it cap at 501, coz I dont like other ppl hv higher CP than me (75)..

+25% power +25% defend +25% regen...

Keepercraft

CP cap discussion....

Alexandrious

Looked at Rifts Planar Attunement system...geez that looks like one hell of a grind, few musta reached the "Lv cap" for it. Wonder how it compares to getting 3600 champ points, well guess we never know now due to cap and changes.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Alexandrious wrote: »

Looked at Rifts Planar Attunement system...geez that looks like one hell of a grind, few musta reached the "Lv cap" for it. Wonder how it compares to getting 3600 champ points, well guess we never know now due to cap and changes.

rift has a boat load of daily quests, a mentor system that nullifies by allowing the player to adjust their level to the zone they are in removing grey quest issues and broadens access to leveling experience. i used it as an argument as to why their system, which it seems the orsinium system seems to be modeled on, won't work in ESO.

my wife and i both played rift, she still actively raids there. its not as bad there because the game environment is geared towards successful progression.

oyvind_okb16_ESO

xaraan wrote: »

This is stupid.

501? That's going to be a much larger portion of players at cap than they let on. I just recently passed that, so doesn't impact me in a way that's going to lower what my character is now, but gives me no room to grow.

So, no reason to play the new content then since we can't get anything out of playing. Already got gear, xp - especially first time xp for completing quests - will be wasted on not getting to earn cp out of it.

Should have given more points so people have actual room to grow over the coming months.

well, i say that so be it. think that u should have to choose what u want from the CP tree not be able to get it all. and this may prevent players that pve all the time to go pvp and own everyone cuz he or she has 1200+ cp

501 is a good cap should stay as perm cap tho. u say nothing to play for? what about improving ur skills as a player rather then exploiting the CP

i can see that the ones that just wanna pve wants it to be uncapped but in pvp atleast its bs that ppl that have the time should be so much better cuz of the CP. i say this to its rly hard for new players to join in the game as it is without a cap due they will be so far behind on cp, might make some quit the game thinking, "no way im gonna play a game i have no chance on winning cuz of CP.

Skill in gameplay is one thing, tho being able to win cuz ur ahead on CP is ***.

well hopefully this catch up thing works good it might bring more players to the game. PS: if they manage to fix some issues within the game ofc

and yh might be some bad grammar here and there. and for those who cant get shortcuts

u=you
rly: Realy
CP: champion Point
ppl: people

k2blader

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

for those praising a reduced CP grind, should probably check out the new gear grind....

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222451/official-feedback-thread-for-crafting-node-scaling/p1

which is more rewarding- gear grind, or CP grind?

personally i rather have the CP grind, that follows my toon, than a gear grind that changes most often over shorter periods of time...

The crafting node issue is a totally separate issue. Also, I wouldn't call it a gear grind but a mats RNG grind, which is indeed terrible for the fun factor.

I'd rather have a gear grind (e.g. grind AP for specific gear pieces) because it would allow me a goal toward a specific, desirable item or set; and I can figure out pretty easily how much effort I'd like to put into obtaining the goal.

If I want the stuff fast and am willing to grind for it, I can. If I want to live real life and don't need game stuff that fast I can take it more slowly. But either way there would be a tangible goal I could strive for and look forward to, with basically no RNG forced down my throat.