[Patch Notes] Champion Point cap will be set at 501

Rayste

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.

• Average CP on PC - 93
• Average CP on PS4 - 46
• Average CP on XB1 - 44

Thanks for the information. Although I don't know how you guys pulled this data, does this include players that log in at least a couple hours per week? If so, 501 seems unobtainable to the average player. Guessing these might be a little on the low side though. I am quite happy with the direction you guys are taking this though.

As for people asking for more than 501.... this seemingly arbitrary number is more than fair. The advantage 500 gives you over a new player is huge.

Sausage

501 means we will be grinding Orsinium like no tomorrow. Seems like good number. I think most long timers are at 400 or so. Then of course no-lifers are beyond that.

Rayste

Sausage wrote: »

501 means we will be grinding Orsinium like no tomorrow. Seems like good number. I think most long timers are at 400 or so. Then of course no-lifers are beyond that.

@Sausage

Yea around 470 here and I thought I played a lot. There are apparently people in excess of 1k and even a couple with 2k+. That is simply astounding.

J2JMC

If they had initially placed the cap at 360 instead of 3600 this would be a non-issue.

Sausage

Rayste wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

501 means we will be grinding Orsinium like no tomorrow. Seems like good number. I think most long timers are at 400 or so. Then of course no-lifers are beyond that.

@Sausage

Yea around 470 here and I thought I played a lot. There are apparently people in excess of 1k and even a couple with 2k+. That is simply astounding.

Agreed.

I think they should still reward those grinders with gold like 200k gold who ever reach cap fastest etc, and this could work I think, but you gotta reward the grinders, thats how this works. Even better if they give some cool armor, true epeen thing.

Farorin

501 is good for me, I have less than 300 despite the fact that I was playing during early access. I am low on CPs because I don't grind for it, so finally something is being done to level the playing field and make the game a bit more about skillful play, rather than a game of "Who grinds, wins".

Prizax

I was hoping for the first cap to be around 600 so I'm okay with the cap being at 501 and seriously to all of those who complain saying it's too low you must be very blind, not just because you know and see people with lots of CPs means everyone is like that...

xaraan

Justice31st wrote: »

Usara wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

To punish the community? This was the one of the most requested game changes...

The catch up system and diminishing return on very high CP score was requested.

People asking for a 501 CP cap obviously haven't been playing much and/or not for long. Or spent most of their time here on the forum instead of playing (...or it could be the long loading screens, I admit )

When I say punish the community playing since the release, I do mean it. 70Cp cap when CP system was released, XP from achievements for new players, trophies for only one char (so you are afraid to play on your other toons), people who kept ESO+ for months when the 10% xp boost was the ONLY advantage to it, ZERO content for MONTHS because console development was the main focus... you want more examples ?

I mean you saw Richard Lamberts data mining numbers report right? You are talking about a minuscule amount of PC players being affected by this decision; not a community. In case you missed it I will quote it below.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.

• Average CP on PC - 93
• Average CP on PS4 - 46
• Average CP on XB1 - 44

You kind of miss the fact that those are some dishonest numbers right there right? I mean, everyone that thought about it for half a second knew it wasn't right and was including a lot of accounts that aren't current players.

I have a friend at 75 CP, he's played like twice since the TU launched - and he subs. He'd be considered as a "current player" even if they did filter out people that hadn't played for months and he's not really a current player.

The 501 will effect more than you think, especially in another month when the DLC comes out and the months after when the caps hit before more content is out.

And really, if it effects such a small percentage of players, then why worry about it? You really chalk every pvp loss up to being short on CP and think that you are always running into that one in a million player? Most of us aren't even saying there should be no cap, we are simply saying 501 is a bit low and doesn't give any room to grow or reason to keep playing.

xaraan

Farorin wrote: »

501 is good for me, I have less than 300 despite the fact that I was playing during early access. I am low on CPs because I don't grind for it, so finally something is being done to level the playing field and make the game a bit more about skillful play, rather than a game of "Who grinds, wins".

A lot that will hit that 501 cap day one don't grind for it either. Get that out of your head.

Gern_Verkheart

As someone who only has just over 100 champ points despite having played since launch, I am very thankful for this change. It is very aggravating fighting people with 400+ champ points and not standing a chance against them, and also being barred from IC dungeons cause I can't pull the DPS numbers simply because I lack the champ points. It will be very nice to have the opportunity to catch up.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

Another DLC is coming out in less than 3 months and your complaining about nothing to do? All because you can't grind trash mobs for champion points instead of doing the new content. This must be people's first MMORPG because I can remember games would go 2 years before a level cap was increased, and you may get 4 DLCs in that time.

Not to mention players would get to level cap in a few days. What did we do the other 729 days of no character progression? WE PLAYED THE GAME!!!!!

xaraan

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

As someone who only has just over 100 champ points despite having played since launch, I am very thankful for this change. It is very aggravating fighting people with 400+ champ points and not standing a chance against them, and also being barred from IC dungeons cause I can't pull the DPS numbers simply because I lack the champ points. It will be very nice to have the opportunity to catch up.

You think this will change? If you haven't been able to earn 500 in the 7 months since TU launched, what makes you think you will earn them before the Cap goes up again? You'll still be fighting people with 500 CP for months btw.

Evandus

xaraan wrote: »

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

As someone who only has just over 100 champ points despite having played since launch, I am very thankful for this change. It is very aggravating fighting people with 400+ champ points and not standing a chance against them, and also being barred from IC dungeons cause I can't pull the DPS numbers simply because I lack the champ points. It will be very nice to have the opportunity to catch up.

You think this will change? If you haven't been able to earn 500 in the 7 months since TU launched, what makes you think you will earn them before the Cap goes up again? You'll still be fighting people with 500 CP for months btw.

Two things I guess. But allow me to preface my response by pointing out that I've found myself in agreement with the major majority of your posts in my time on these forums.

1. Straight up PvP wise you are absolutely right. Players with hundreds more champion points than I are at a distinct advantage. Namely due to the fact that IC was setup in such a way that forces PvP and PvE players to cross paths - something I'd been of the opinion was akin to mixing water and phosphorus in chemistry class. PvP'ing for me, (someone who has spent roughly about 30 minutes trying out since beta), is an invitation to be wrecked repeatedly. Notsomuch due to that advantage gained by champion points. Moreso due to me not understanding PvP mechanics and strategies. These complaints, though in many cases I've read, are indeed over-exaggerated. But the tremendous gap for a player who is forced to PvP to run the content is obvious. I've been away from this game for many months now, and recently returned. Think I have something like 47/37/47 for champion points when I check the screen. Being a pretty decent PvE player means less than nothing when entering a PVP area of any kind.

2. Then there is the other aspect right now though. With no working groupfinder, and guild loss due to inactivity, options become even more limited to make the attempt to catch up. So, we are looking at this new DLC, Orsinium. Seems absolutely intentional for them to include a solo arena, and strict PvE elements. Because I as a player currently cannot get into groups running content that grants lots of xp/cp. But, I am now going to have the option to do it solo/small group. With a cap on the points hardcore players can use, plus a mechanic to allow me to catch up - I'm more inclined to play. Hell, I'll even start learning about PvP. Because It's not as if I am merely there to feed points/stones/whatever to the whales in this game.

Who wants to play a game where you have seemingly no chance at winning?

People who are like me (pretty decent players with limited time) can catch up to the mark. This is important I believe because the posts have been moved around so much by this development team it creates entirely new levels of frustration. Favorite class since beta stripped bare (only works with generic stam skills in content I'd like to run). Numerous and, in some cases, heavy duty changes to baseline mechanics.

None of these changes they are making are going to solve the problem. But it definitely appears that after running some numbers, the numerous complaints I've read involving (supposedly)invincible players have some light shed on them. I used to cringe when running Trials or Undaunted when people were being told to GTFO because their numbers are too low. Can't imagine any of my V14's getting into any runs worth anything with 47/37/47. DPS isn't high enough. Defenses aren't strong enough. Healing is subpar...

Docmandu

Not even have 300CP.. People on this forum that think that the majority is at >500 are delusional.

Huggalump

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.

• Average CP on PC - 93
• Average CP on PS4 - 46
• Average CP on XB1 - 44

Thanks for the post!

Personally, I started at b2p. I play roughly two hours a day and only play on my v16. I'm at 150ish CP.

b92303008rwb17_ESO

xaraan wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.

• Average CP on PC - 93
• Average CP on PS4 - 46
• Average CP on XB1 - 44

Does this take into account players that haven't logged in for weeks or months?

I know several friends sitting at sub 100 that don't play anymore after they played a bit months ago.

Based on the fact that average CP on PC is 93 and that they set the cap at 500, which is so much higher than 93, I think they already take those really dead accounts into consideration. Besides, when people talk about active accounts, what does it mean to be active? You can't ask ZOS to simply ignore those potential player that left due to game flaws earlier but may come back and check out the polish or improvements.

Derra

xaraan wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

I think 600 would be more appropriate. 501 seems a little low. While I recognise a cap is necessary, I still think you need something to work towards. Such a low cap doesn't provide this... Particularly given that they are introducing a catch up mechanic.

600 would be reasonable.

I was at 580 before IC launch and all I did was pvp in small grp. If this goes live all progression is taken from me for months. I might just quit.

Let alone that sorc needs 600cp just to max dmg where stam only needs 300... This is Bulls*t

lathbury

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

I guess if you are lower than 501 champ points the response is "glory glory hallelujah". (of course when it makes no difference and you are still getting hammered by experienced pvpers, it will be something else right?)

If you actually spent some time grinding some CP and making sure you never ended up eating enlightenment points that were banked and weren't some scrub feeding xp to people in pvp and instead gaining xp... well 501 is bullcrap.

The "average" player that has actually played the game since March 3rd should have a min of 286 champion points. That's 1 a day from enlightenment on top of the 70 from being vr14. That's the min if you didn't eat enlightenment that was banked...

Now if you actually play the game (and I mean don't do 1 veteran dungeon that takes you 4 hours with 50 wipes as your daily playing) you could easily do 1 CP unenlightened per day. That's 502 Champion points.

I guess that's what they are shooting for, problem is that's for TODAY.

Now same calculations until Orsinium will be 329 champ points if you did enlightenment every day; 545 if you gained 1 additional CP each day (believe it or not, it wasn't hard to do if you actually did it)

That's leaves anyone who plays a bit over the cap (that's not hardcore at all).

Now let's say Orsinium is active for 4 months.

That puts the bare mininum player that merely finished their enlightenment without burning it at 449 champion points, and anyone that did an additonal CP by playing the game successfully in their play time at 665 (again, not hardcore).

But, let's forget the how long orsinium will be active point.

I feel a more reasonable cap would be 700 with the diminishing rate being active at anyone over cap, and that's to cover thru Orsinium.

Now if you were hardcore and actually grinding CP's regularly... they are basically saying "don't subcribe to eso plus". I'm a bit ambivalent about punishing people that grinded CP that are regular players. Yes, there were some that abused the system to get ridiculous amounts of CP, sure.

But, if you enjoy the game and grinded some CP for gold and materials any bit regularly you will be over that 501 by a fair bit. I'm not talking the 1000+ club, I give a rat's butt about them. There are plenty of regular not insane play all day players that are sitting in the over 501 range now, why should they be punished?

[of course I have a little of 600 cp right now, I took advantage of some bangkorai grinding for xp and gold/materials but never did a marthon of it, I just did a little bit a day while waiting in queue or if I had a half hour to play, so I don't claim to be unbiased in this]

I agree with the start of your post 286 is correct. I have done the veteran and silver (since drops changed) but the exp from these in a fast 10 min run is not enough to gain an extra cp. I also farm and do my daily crafting writs did do trials 3 times a week now its one HM run with the rest farming gear in the new dungeons.
I have around 350 CP which is the average for my guild the only members with more farmed cwc or IC sewers for them.
I wouldn't say we are scrubs we have been in the top 100 trials every week and more often than not top 20.
All our active players have no death and speedrun achieves we are currently perfecting HM and speedruns of the new dungeons. The reason we are not all sitting on 500+ is because we run dungeons/trials and Regular PVP the exp for dungeons is terrible. I put dawnbreaker on my bar on one of my alts it was completly unlevelled I ran VWGT 3 times it moved 5%. I then put it on my bar and ran a few laps farming boneshard in the sewers and had it max level and morphed in 20 mins.

So as you can see the game rewards grinding for things not pushing for times or HM achieves as my guild does.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

I want to thank ZoS for making things easy for me. I was torn between going to play Fallout 4 from November 11 or stay and play Orcinium. As I will hit 501 just about the time of the release of Orcinium the choice were made for me.

I wonder how many loyal ESO plus members they will drive away with the number they came up with?

Funkopotamus

Well at least now ESO found a way to appeal the death sentence that the broken CP system was causing.

If the runaway CP system would have stayed in this game ZOS would have taken the servers offline within two years. No new players would ever join this game 8 months from now to get continually -ed by CP grinders.. "I say this and I am one of the people that can and does play this game too damn much lol"

The CP system looked great on some developers desk, but in reality it would only place a death sentence on this game!

People keep saying "So what...... you will still be facing players with 500CP"
Well that is true yes.. BUT the new players will now have increased EXP and time to catch up to a competitive CP level. Also the cap is not the only thing that will help the "New Player".. ZOS are also increasing the rate at which players gain CP..

So in the very near future PvP will be more of a "Player Skill" modifier than a "Gigidy gigidy
! Eat my free time new player"

As it is now PvP is plummeting into a "I have lived off of hot pockets and nolyfed it for 2 months straight so now I am GodMode"

With the cap now players cannot hide behind a wall of CP to make up for their TeriBad playing ability!
Now on the other side of that coin players also can no longer cry about being killed by other players with over the top CP advantages.

Overall this is the best thing to happen to ESO in a long.. long time.

Great job ZOS!

/Clap...clap...

lathbury

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

I want to thank ZoS for making things easy for me. I was torn between going to play Fallout 4 from November 11 or stay and play Orcinium. As I will hit 501 just about the time of the release of Orcinium the choice were made for me.

I wonder how many loyal ESO plus members they will drive away with the number they came up with?

Not many would be my guess. If them finally keeping to a content release schedule and levelling the playing field for leaderboards pushes a few away I'm sure these losses will be absorbed by returning players who feel they can now catch up or at least be competitive.

xaraan

Evandus wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

As someone who only has just over 100 champ points despite having played since launch, I am very thankful for this change. It is very aggravating fighting people with 400+ champ points and not standing a chance against them, and also being barred from IC dungeons cause I can't pull the DPS numbers simply because I lack the champ points. It will be very nice to have the opportunity to catch up.

You think this will change? If you haven't been able to earn 500 in the 7 months since TU launched, what makes you think you will earn them before the Cap goes up again? You'll still be fighting people with 500 CP for months btw.

Two things I guess. But allow me to preface my response by pointing out that I've found myself in agreement with the major majority of your posts in my time on these forums.

1. Straight up PvP wise you are absolutely right. Players with hundreds more champion points than I are at a distinct advantage. Namely due to the fact that IC was setup in such a way that forces PvP and PvE players to cross paths - something I'd been of the opinion was akin to mixing water and phosphorus in chemistry class. PvP'ing for me, (someone who has spent roughly about 30 minutes trying out since beta), is an invitation to be wrecked repeatedly. Notsomuch due to that advantage gained by champion points. Moreso due to me not understanding PvP mechanics and strategies. These complaints, though in many cases I've read, are indeed over-exaggerated. But the tremendous gap for a player who is forced to PvP to run the content is obvious. I've been away from this game for many months now, and recently returned. Think I have something like 47/37/47 for champion points when I check the screen. Being a pretty decent PvE player means less than nothing when entering a PVP area of any kind.

2. Then there is the other aspect right now though. With no working groupfinder, and guild loss due to inactivity, options become even more limited to make the attempt to catch up. So, we are looking at this new DLC, Orsinium. Seems absolutely intentional for them to include a solo arena, and strict PvE elements. Because I as a player currently cannot get into groups running content that grants lots of xp/cp. But, I am now going to have the option to do it solo/small group. With a cap on the points hardcore players can use, plus a mechanic to allow me to catch up - I'm more inclined to play. Hell, I'll even start learning about PvP. Because It's not as if I am merely there to feed points/stones/whatever to the whales in this game.

Who wants to play a game where you have seemingly no chance at winning?

People who are like me (pretty decent players with limited time) can catch up to the mark. This is important I believe because the posts have been moved around so much by this development team it creates entirely new levels of frustration. Favorite class since beta stripped bare (only works with generic stam skills in content I'd like to run). Numerous and, in some cases, heavy duty changes to baseline mechanics.

None of these changes they are making are going to solve the problem. But it definitely appears that after running some numbers, the numerous complaints I've read involving (supposedly)invincible players have some light shed on them. I used to cringe when running Trials or Undaunted when people were being told to GTFO because their numbers are too low. Can't imagine any of my V14's getting into any runs worth anything with 47/37/47. DPS isn't high enough. Defenses aren't strong enough. Healing is subpar...

I don't disagree with the need of a catch up mechanic, or even a cap. I just think (much like the way the champion system was rolled out to begin with) is that it's just not being implemented right. There is a guy that started playing again that is about half the CP as me, he will have a chance to catch up b/c we'll both be playing about the same and I'll be penalized with the diminishing xp returns/cap. That's what the system should be for - players that are going to play consistently be given a chance to catch up. Not to slow everyone down to the slowest 20% of the player base. (and I GUARANTEE once you get rid of truly inactive accounts and get a look at the real spread of numbers, you'd see a much difference "average" CP picture and see that the lowest % that's bringing the numbers down are players that will fall into that never catch up category. -- the catch up mechanic and cap isn't for them, it's for that group in the middle to catch up to the top CP% players). But don't tell me (you aren't the only one in this spot) that you have earned 100 CP in the 7 months since TU launched and then act like you are going to go from 100 to 500 before the cap is raised again.

I do promise you though, that just the fact that you haven't really hammered down a good pvp build and routine is the biggest issue you have and it has much less to do with CP than you think. We run one of the best (though smallest) pvp guilds in cyro and have never kicked, or even asked someone, how much CP they have (as an entrance rule anyway, it's come up when talking builds). We worry more about their build/rotation and just how well they play in general (as far as understanding pvp). I can also tell you that my success/failure rate in pvp has not changed from launch or CP rollout as I've pvp'd from 70 cp on up. I'm not saying the system makes zero difference in power, but it really isn't as bad as most think unless you are talking about guys that have grinded up to over 1K long ago and those guys are one in a million to run into (unless you are like us and know them and look for them).

The cap isn't going to effect me greatly, I'm a bit over 500 now. But I don't see anything I'll get out of Orsinium. No reason to complete quests when my xp is going to be penalized (since you can only turn in quests once) and if I get it, maybe just do the solo arena and keep pvping until the cap gets raised unless I move onto something else. To me, that's a problem. Putting out content that makes players want to not play or not care if they play (which IC already fell into for a lot of players) is a huge issue for the life of the game, even if it is a small percent. (BTW, the reason it's a small % of players is due to the number of major players that have already left the game)

And, like I said, those same players for trials that are going to sweat you for not having 200 CP instead of 100 are going to tell you no for not being at CP cap even if you double your points in the next month. Those players worry about cookie cutters and whatever build the last streamer they decided to like told them to run, they don't want to take chances with players that might be awesome even without the stats they have. They don't know any better. But the CP cap isn't going to change things with them.

In the end though, there is something weird about players that don't play that much trying to make sure others can't earn more than them to me. Should I also have a TVStone, AP and gold earning cap as well? Should we cap the number of crafting writs I'm able to do b/c I have more than one character that can do them? Where do we draw the line at holding people back to the slowest common denominators? Should we just find out the average amount of time players can play the game and only allow every player 2 hours of gaming a day? So personally, I don't care about having a cap at all. Fighting those guys with over 1k cp wasn't a deal breaker for me (and I promise you that hardly any players complaining here have fought them, they just think that everyone that beats them has 1k). BUT, even though I don't personally care, doesn't mean I don't see the need to have the mechanic in the game. I just think that 501 is a bit low for a DLC that is going to come out a month from now and for what will probably be the cap for the next few months after the game comes out. If I'm already at the cap without grinding and just playing their game for fun, then something is wrong.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Well at least now ESO found a way to appeal the death sentence that the broken CP system was causing. *snip*

The system were only bad because the math of the progression were designed in a silly way which gave most of the bonuses through linear progression instead of through a curve that would made the power creep impossible.

Sadly they decided not to fix the CP system, instead they decided to cripple it in a way that will harm regular players and wont really help super casuals anyway.

Vangy

I made a post about how pvp rewards were crap and how things needed to change to give me incentives to play. I was met with tons of why not play for fun you don't need rewards posts? So my advice here is forget about cp and play for fun! If you need to see that ding and watch ur toon get 0.2% more damage/defence/healing and without this you are going to quit; I'd say find a new game.
/joke

In all due honesty though as a new player I have like 120 cp so im pretty psyched about the 500 cp limit + the catch up mechanic. 3 months and I'll be on even footing with some of those who spent hundreds of bucks on scrolls and exp pots
/cue evil laughter muahahhahahaha

b92303008rwb17_ESO

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

I want to thank ZoS for making things easy for me. I was torn between going to play Fallout 4 from November 11 or stay and play Orcinium. As I will hit 501 just about the time of the release of Orcinium the choice were made for me.

I wonder how many loyal ESO plus members they will drive away with the number they came up with?

If you are going to play Fallout 4, you are going to play Fallout 4. Don't pretend that decision make you do so. And my guess is people like you will come back or will never even leave in the first place if the content is good enough. People that are going to quit probably don't bother posting a bye-bye thread on the forum anyway.

MisterBigglesworth

I'm still 100% against the very concept of the Champion System. No one on this forum, nor any of the developers will ever convince me that it's a good idea.

Progression should be about acquiring a series of ever improving pieces of gear through a series of harder and harder endgame dungeons and raids. PvP should always be purely skill based, where gear is either severely reduced or even turned off completely.

I look at you people arguing about what the cap should be and how fast the catchup should be like you're all rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Cinbri

so 501. I will be far from it the day dlc released.

Yuke

...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand im out.

Like Derra said, our guild Noricum only did PvP in real small scale groups (max 5), if thats considered grinding by ZoS, then i cant be any part of this anymore.

Only Time i entered CWC was when ive been asked to clear the spot from enemies.

This is cleary not my game anymore and no, no1 can have my stuff.

Evandus

xaraan wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

As someone who only has just over 100 champ points despite having played since launch, I am very thankful for this change. It is very aggravating fighting people with 400+ champ points and not standing a chance against them, and also being barred from IC dungeons cause I can't pull the DPS numbers simply because I lack the champ points. It will be very nice to have the opportunity to catch up.

You think this will change? If you haven't been able to earn 500 in the 7 months since TU launched, what makes you think you will earn them before the Cap goes up again? You'll still be fighting people with 500 CP for months btw.

Two things I guess. But allow me to preface my response by pointing out that I've found myself in agreement with the major majority of your posts in my time on these forums.

1. Straight up PvP wise you are absolutely right. Players with hundreds more champion points than I are at a distinct advantage. Namely due to the fact that IC was setup in such a way that forces PvP and PvE players to cross paths - something I'd been of the opinion was akin to mixing water and phosphorus in chemistry class. PvP'ing for me, (someone who has spent roughly about 30 minutes trying out since beta), is an invitation to be wrecked repeatedly. Notsomuch due to that advantage gained by champion points. Moreso due to me not understanding PvP mechanics and strategies. These complaints, though in many cases I've read, are indeed over-exaggerated. But the tremendous gap for a player who is forced to PvP to run the content is obvious. I've been away from this game for many months now, and recently returned. Think I have something like 47/37/47 for champion points when I check the screen. Being a pretty decent PvE player means less than nothing when entering a PVP area of any kind.

2. Then there is the other aspect right now though. With no working groupfinder, and guild loss due to inactivity, options become even more limited to make the attempt to catch up. So, we are looking at this new DLC, Orsinium. Seems absolutely intentional for them to include a solo arena, and strict PvE elements. Because I as a player currently cannot get into groups running content that grants lots of xp/cp. But, I am now going to have the option to do it solo/small group. With a cap on the points hardcore players can use, plus a mechanic to allow me to catch up - I'm more inclined to play. Hell, I'll even start learning about PvP. Because It's not as if I am merely there to feed points/stones/whatever to the whales in this game.

Who wants to play a game where you have seemingly no chance at winning?

People who are like me (pretty decent players with limited time) can catch up to the mark. This is important I believe because the posts have been moved around so much by this development team it creates entirely new levels of frustration. Favorite class since beta stripped bare (only works with generic stam skills in content I'd like to run). Numerous and, in some cases, heavy duty changes to baseline mechanics.

None of these changes they are making are going to solve the problem. But it definitely appears that after running some numbers, the numerous complaints I've read involving (supposedly)invincible players have some light shed on them. I used to cringe when running Trials or Undaunted when people were being told to GTFO because their numbers are too low. Can't imagine any of my V14's getting into any runs worth anything with 47/37/47. DPS isn't high enough. Defenses aren't strong enough. Healing is subpar...

I don't disagree with the need of a catch up mechanic, or even a cap. I just think (much like the way the champion system was rolled out to begin with) is that it's just not being implemented right. There is a guy that started playing again that is about half the CP as me, he will have a chance to catch up b/c we'll both be playing about the same and I'll be penalized with the diminishing xp returns/cap. That's what the system should be for - players that are going to play consistently be given a chance to catch up. Not to slow everyone down to the slowest 20% of the player base. (and I GUARANTEE once you get rid of truly inactive accounts and get a look at the real spread of numbers, you'd see a much difference "average" CP picture and see that the lowest % that's bringing the numbers down are players that will fall into that never catch up category. -- the catch up mechanic and cap isn't for them, it's for that group in the middle to catch up to the top CP% players). But don't tell me (you aren't the only one in this spot) that you have earned 100 CP in the 7 months since TU launched and then act like you are going to go from 100 to 500 before the cap is raised again.

I do promise you though, that just the fact that you haven't really hammered down a good pvp build and routine is the biggest issue you have and it has much less to do with CP than you think. We run one of the best (though smallest) pvp guilds in cyro and have never kicked, or even asked someone, how much CP they have (as an entrance rule anyway, it's come up when talking builds). We worry more about their build/rotation and just how well they play in general (as far as understanding pvp). I can also tell you that my success/failure rate in pvp has not changed from launch or CP rollout as I've pvp'd from 70 cp on up. I'm not saying the system makes zero difference in power, but it really isn't as bad as most think unless you are talking about guys that have grinded up to over 1K long ago and those guys are one in a million to run into (unless you are like us and know them and look for them).

The cap isn't going to effect me greatly, I'm a bit over 500 now. But I don't see anything I'll get out of Orsinium. No reason to complete quests when my xp is going to be penalized (since you can only turn in quests once) and if I get it, maybe just do the solo arena and keep pvping until the cap gets raised unless I move onto something else. To me, that's a problem. Putting out content that makes players want to not play or not care if they play (which IC already fell into for a lot of players) is a huge issue for the life of the game, even if it is a small percent. (BTW, the reason it's a small % of players is due to the number of major players that have already left the game)

And, like I said, those same players for trials that are going to sweat you for not having 200 CP instead of 100 are going to tell you no for not being at CP cap even if you double your points in the next month. Those players worry about cookie cutters and whatever build the last streamer they decided to like told them to run, they don't want to take chances with players that might be awesome even without the stats they have. They don't know any better. But the CP cap isn't going to change things with them.

In the end though, there is something weird about players that don't play that much trying to make sure others can't earn more than them to me. Should I also have a TVStone, AP and gold earning cap as well? Should we cap the number of crafting writs I'm able to do b/c I have more than one character that can do them? Where do we draw the line at holding people back to the slowest common denominators? Should we just find out the average amount of time players can play the game and only allow every player 2 hours of gaming a day? So personally, I don't care about having a cap at all. Fighting those guys with over 1k cp wasn't a deal breaker for me (and I promise you that hardly any players complaining here have fought them, they just think that everyone that beats them has 1k). BUT, even though I don't personally care, doesn't mean I don't see the need to have the mechanic in the game. I just think that 501 is a bit low for a DLC that is going to come out a month from now and for what will probably be the cap for the next few months after the game comes out. If I'm already at the cap without grinding and just playing their game for fun, then something is wrong.

Coming to this game from a progressive raiding guild (that enjoyed breaking said game for fun) I can't legitimately argue against your points here.

This change does look a lot like promising us that they were tracking our xp and then initially trying to give everyone a flat 30CP. The development team's lack of experience with dealing with hardcore gamers is causing an awful lot of consternation.

Where's the middle ground here, to heck if I know by this point? On one hand you can't strip away progression and rewards. Yet, on the other hand, new(er/ish) players shouldn't be forced to be PvP punching bags either.

ZOS has managed an exceptional job of painting themselves into a corner...

Justice31st

xaraan wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Usara wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

To punish the community? This was the one of the most requested game changes...

The catch up system and diminishing return on very high CP score was requested.

People asking for a 501 CP cap obviously haven't been playing much and/or not for long. Or spent most of their time here on the forum instead of playing (...or it could be the long loading screens, I admit )

When I say punish the community playing since the release, I do mean it. 70Cp cap when CP system was released, XP from achievements for new players, trophies for only one char (so you are afraid to play on your other toons), people who kept ESO+ for months when the 10% xp boost was the ONLY advantage to it, ZERO content for MONTHS because console development was the main focus... you want more examples ?

I mean you saw Richard Lamberts data mining numbers report right? You are talking about a minuscule amount of PC players being affected by this decision; not a community. In case you missed it I will quote it below.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.

• Average CP on PC - 93
• Average CP on PS4 - 46
• Average CP on XB1 - 44

You kind of miss the fact that those are some dishonest numbers right there right? I mean, everyone that thought about it for half a second knew it wasn't right and was including a lot of accounts that aren't current players.

I have a friend at 75 CP, he's played like twice since the TU launched - and he subs. He'd be considered as a "current player" even if they did filter out people that hadn't played for months and he's not really a current player.

The 501 will effect more than you think, especially in another month when the DLC comes out and the months after when the caps hit before more content is out.

And really, if it effects such a small percentage of players, then why worry about it? You really chalk every pvp loss up to being short on CP and think that you are always running into that one in a million player? Most of us aren't even saying there should be no cap, we are simply saying 501 is a bit low and doesn't give any room to grow or reason to keep playing.

Dishonest numbers? You think Richard Lambert is lying and has a hidden agenda? I am not here to debate you on conspiracy theory's and I threw away my tin foil hat a long time ago. This is the last I will be responding to your posts. Good day!