Champion System and XP Feedback

tinythinker · March 2015

Thoughts similar to some, different than others:

-- Keep the unique distribution of points per character. I have no interest in playing 8 versions of the same toon.

-- Put a greater emphasis on the (biggest) Enlightenment gains going to people who play less, either by direct daily measurement or an average daily measurement over some period of time. The mechanic is up in the air: Limit giving Enlightenment only to those whose playing time is under some threshold? Boost the potency of Enlightenment for those who play less and dilute it for those who are on all of the time? Some other scheme? Consider how far ahead you want people who play constantly, especially those who grind, to be able to get ahead of casuals and set the pace for each accordingly as the bookends for everyone else.

-- Examine how balanced XP gains are for different activities and how this effects rate of Championship Point gain for those who have different interests.

-- Introduce new zones and dungeons to give VR14s something to do for meaningful XP.

-- Add content within existing veteran rank zones, from the first major zone of Cadwell's Silver to Upper Craglorn, such as those random Coldharbor drops with the foghorn and purple beam. Make such events (including those drops) more interesting and give more XP for them or maybe even a chance to become Enlightened/extend current Enlightenment boon for completing them.

Nebthet78 · March 2015

I posted this in another thread, but since the mod redirected every one over to here I wanted to put my comment over here:

"I wonder how many nails that coffin ZOS keeps hammering is going to take before it falls apart due to lack of any more wood?

1CP/Day is not acceptable. That is going to take too long for a lot of people to be able to make any reasonable progress to at least bring their characters back up to snuff from all the nerfs.

If they are going to do it that way, I would at least hope that is 1CP/DAY/Vet Toon on the account.

What I feel would be more reasonable would be 3CP/DAY Max account wide, One for each constellation.
This would keep the grinders from taking advantage of the system, while allowing more casual players to feel like their CP progress is meaningful and will help them as they level. "

Roechacca · March 2015

XP nerfs In groups is terrible too . That just makes friends not want to do things together and use the smallest group possible .

Max2497 · March 2015

I spent about three hours completing world bosses, delves, dolmens, and the public dungeon. I only received one CP. It's just too slow. So here are my suggestions.

1. Decrease the amount of XP per CP given. It should be the same 200k that was given at conversion. I didn't mind that it was to be 400k after the conversion when we were told we would be given 400k enlightenment. Now that the enlightenment has been reduced its no longer fair.

2. Increase the enlightenment to 2 max CP per day.

3. Increase the XP given in all vet dungeons. It's absurdly low.

4. Create a bonus CP system. Give 1 bonus CP per account per day for each of the following:
A. Completing the Vet Undaunted Pledge.
B. Completing X crafting writs. (3 seems reasonable across all characters, not per character.)
C. Have a daily CP board. It could be a task like
- kill X deadra
- kill X monsters in Deshaan (or similar zone)
- fence $2000 worth of goods

Thanks for listening. I hope you find a suitable solution soon.

geofhob14_ESO · March 2015

Vaelen wrote: »

If ZOS gave out 200 CPs to all vet characters, would anyone complain except for those who wasted their time abusing the exploit to gain 200+ CPs?

Agree

Grim13 · March 2015

I think a player should earn 1 CP daily just for logging in...

Rune_Relic · March 2015

Not everyone likes trials.
Not everyone likes dungeons.
Not everyone likes cyrodiil PVP.
Not everyone likes questing..
Not everyone likes Role playing.
Not everyone likes grinding.
You get the idea.
You will never balance the XP based CP gain to the satisfaction of everyone any more then you will balance the classes.
But you fixed the disparity of class Ultimate by making it time based.

This champion system is based on the celestial mechanics or time.

So my suggestions for the the celestial advancement is to be given over to time and not experience.
This then;
1. makes Champion system completely playstyle neutral.
2. eliminates the need to spend forever trying to balance XP gain for every playstyle.
3. allows game advancement pace to be throttled by ZOS.
4. stops the fastest players or those with excess time compared to the norm from gaining runaway power levels in combat.
5. allows the slower players to not be completely left behind.
6. EVERYONE progresses at a comfortable rate [what that rate should be is negotiable with ZOS].
7. EVERYONE feels empowered and always progresses.
8. NO ONE is forced into playstyles they dont like just to be competitive for leaderboards or PVP.
This I feel will fix the Champion system in a fair manner for all existing players.

For New players.
I see absolutely no reason why the Champion system has to be started 50+ other than the name and precursor replacement.
The players just wanted an unending advancement system so i really dont see how it matters.
This will also remove a power wall that will face new 1-50 customers when they start the game.
Rather than face Veteran ALTs with 1000s of CP in 1-50 cyrodiil and die or more likely be deliberately farmed.
Give them CP from the off so that when they do hit 50+ they should already have the initial high power points in the bag.
Perhaps give them 1 CP / level upto 50 as a bonus for their 1st character only and/or the time based system.

Unfixable issues with the Champion system:

1. The Veteran system had fixed levels that everyone reached before moving on.
This kept players at similar power levels and let non-grinders catch up.
Everyone knew if they were a Vet14 what kind of content they could challenge and how powerful player enemies were.
You knew what passives/actives came with NB/sorc/DK/Temp.
You knew what passives/actives came with the weapons they were holding.
This let you predict exactly what you were facing and what counters you needed.
This rating system is now useless, as you have no idea how powerful your enemy is (and in what way) with 3600 CP or 0 CP.
In PVE you will find it impossible to balance as you will have some V14 with 0 points and some with 3600 (a 25% power window).
Those with 3600 will walk through the content as it will be too easy.
Those with 0 will fail the content as it will be too hard.
There is no way to scale dungeons to suit CP especially when you throw in level 20 with 1000 cp and any other combination of level and CP.
Some wont clear content under any circumstances and some will get bored with the easyness.

2. PVP in cyrodiil is supposed to be about skill on an even playing field.
That was the whole concept of Battle leveling.
I would like to see Cyrodiil battle levelled again.
That is impossible with the Champion system...so I shall probably never return there except for the quests.

And for the love of god stop nerfing XP.
People still want to level weapon skills and such beyond 50.
Combat training [grinding] is a valid reason for this.
Ap farming [as much as it pains me to say so] is also as much combat training as PVE grinding.
This form of experience should be more inline with the skyshard system than the champion system.
I dont care if the person I am fighting has mastered 100 weapon trees...he can only use two.
I do care of I can master 100 weapon trees as it gives me lots to do and makes me unique.
Notice how weapon choice and training is voluntary and optional!
Your power level remains the same no matter the weapon

Kevinmon · March 2015

Really ZOS? NO MENTION OF INCREASING XP EARNED IN CYRODIIL? Only PvE dungeons? Are you KIDDING ME???

Newk · March 2015

Cut the VET grind sooner than later. This V1-14 is heavily discouraging people from playing. I have several friends interested in playing but non of them interested in the V1-14 grind (all previous players). It's fine that the other zones are there for people to experience if you want to or if you want it for CP's, but please eliminate the Vet levels somehow.

Make PvE content (not grinding mobs) the best CP gain, and make PvP content on par with this. Don't eliminate CP gain from grinding completely though, some people are more solo oriented. But in an MMO, the PvE Content (Completing Dungeons, Raids, PvP, Delves, Quests, and grouping activities) should be the best way to get CP and XP for that matter.

This does NOT mean you just need to nerf CP gain from grinding. Please for the sake of everyone's sanity and time, BUFF all these content activities experience gain instead. Make bosses give A LOT of XP, make conquering PvP objections and Quests give a lot of XP etc etc. Just do something that does not promote mindless grinding WITHOUT nerfing grinding.

DDuke · March 2015

From perspective of a competitive player, I think the main problem here is that the system mostly rewards the players who spend the most time grinding, instead of the players who perform best.

It kind of obligates you to play as much as possible & do things in game that you wouldn't necessarily want to do at that moment.

There are lots of talented people who might not have the time to grind 16 hours a day, people who are used to just logging in for raids & playing with their friends.

These people will find themselves unviable for high end PvE/PvP, if they don't keep up with the CP train.

I see a couple of options:

Change the focus of Champion System from Vertical progression to Horizontal.

This would mean making the whole thing kind of like a talent tree.

Free idea: You could still keep the long, long progression, but make it possible to only allocate X numbers of Champion Points (an easily reached number). The more Champion Points you get, the more passives would open up (but number of points you can allocate wouldn't increase).

Better "Catching Up" Mechanic

One that increases XP gains in proportion to the person with most Champion Points, or makes it harder for the person who is much ahead to gain them.

Diminishing returns on passives do not mean much, when the CP gap between 16 hours/day grinder & "normal people" simultaneously grows exponentially.

Lastly, if you want to do vertical end game character progression, please do it through gear & challenging content (whether PvE or PvP), not grinding (or have the grinding as a secondary option, not mandatory requirement)

Also to add: while increasing XP gains in VR dungeons / Trials / PvP is probably still a good idea, it does not fix the problem. It simply turns those things into "the grind", which you have to run 24/7 if the system stays as it is.

GTech_1 · March 2015

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Here are my suggestions:
Once the Champion system is unlocked by having 1 VR character, make it usable by Any character, of any level, on the account.
Then use the Champion system to promote other currently under-used systems, and vice-versa.

Examples:

Promote playing Alts: XP gained while playing an Alt should contribute to the Champion XP total for the account.
Dungeon finder buff: Gain a large pool of Bonus Champion XP by using the Group finder to form, and complete, a Dungeon. This should be limited to 1 time per 20 hours, per character. This should not be specifically tied to the Undaunted Dailies. Allow every character to participate.
Promote Crafting and Writs: Gain Bonus Champion XP by completing the Highest level of Crafting Writ. This could replace the unused Inspiration gain.

If these were in place, it would be possible to grant a Major improvement to adjacent systems:

Grant XP for all activities that grant Legerdemain skill line increases. The XP would need to be tracked past the point where Legerdemain caps out.

Beneficial Side note: All of these systems already have controls in place to prevent, or reduce exploitation.

Additional note: None of the suggestions I have provided would solve the issue of the "Diligent Guild Master and Officers" who stay logged in, assisting guildies, but have little playtime for themselves. (I am in this category)

Hope this helps,
~GTech_1

Dazin93 · March 2015

If you really cared about feedback or input there was plenty of opportunity to get it the last 5 months. 1.6 was your one chance to get it right and you have failed miserably. You practically wiped characters, forced people to play one way, destroyed build variety, introduced countless more bugs, still haven't fixed lag issues, and didn't introduce a drop of new content for people to gain points. This game is failing because you don't know how to manage it and have shown no honesty or loyalty to your subscribers.

Attorneyatlawl · March 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

People who are competitive will always achieve progression at the fastest possible pace and sometimes even if they are miserable doing it (self). You just can't change/fix this people. Ok, enough of the obvious.

I know you are not going to pull new PvE content out of nowhere magically. So for now, we need places to grind in the interim that don't interfere with others.

The pace of CP in Cyrodiil is insanely slow, but you already know this. So please fix it already.

My name is Attorneyatlawl, and I approve this message.

Morvul · March 2015

required improvements to the champion system from my point of view:

relatively equal XP gain from different ingame activities:
questing, grinding, dungeons and PvP should all give a compareable amount of experience per hour.
A slight bias of more difficult content giving better XP per hour then easier content would be preferable.

the champion system should have much stronger diminishing returns:
currently, there are diminishing returns for the first ~25 points put into each star, but beyond that point, the power gain from investing further into each star becomes close to liniear. When one combines this with the strong passives unlocked late in the constellations, the champion system becomes very "top heavy" (as another poster put it).

personally, I would probably roughly half the potential power of the champion system - mostly by reducing the power of the 50-100 point investment range on each star, as well as reducing the power of the "high investment" constellation passives

Phinix1 · March 2015

The currently proposed 1 CP per day Enlightenment will be the final nail in the coffin for this being any sort of benefit. New players will be looking at months, even YEARS to catch up with the people that grind, or that were lucky enough early on to get bugged into a huge head start.

There are several problems.

XP (and thus CP) gained through questing and "normal" play has been nerfed so hard that it is nearly useless. I used to get ~35kxp for turning in the average vet quest, now I get between 5-9k. This is unacceptable.
Enlightenment needs to give enough CP so that the average person with a life, job, family, etc. can spend a few hours a day and still get at least a couple points.
A daily cap needs to be implemented regardless so that no matter how much you grind, you can never earn more than twice the amount of CP granted by daily Enlightenment in a 24 hour period.

* I propose that the Daily Enlightenment be set to grant 2 CP.
* I propose a daily cap on the max CP that can be gained per 24 hours be set at 4 CP.
* I propose ALL players have their CP reset to no more than 120.

If you currently have less than 120 CP, this would not affect you. This last point is to reverse the game-balance-breaking damage done by those that exploited the Enlightenment bugs on patch release to grind half a year worth of CP in days.

It seems to me this is the only way to avoid a "CP gap" where new players cannot possibly compete without investing months or years while the grind bots create a monopoly out of PVP which is the main draw for most people to the game.

Otherwise ZOS, you have killed your own baby. If you refuse to correct this you have ended the possibility of competitive fair play, basically making the ability to compete in PVP the last great "loyalty reward," where if you haven't been playing for months/years you will be unable to rival those that have farmed hundreds of CP.

The whole CP system was badly planned and NEEDS a daily cap, and a rollback.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_GinaBruno

Thanks for listening.

wrathofrraath · March 2015

1.6 imo brings end gamers back to their roots. You can quest with your lower vet lvl friends and earn xp together. Looting and delving is fun and worth something again. All was well until the Day Craglorn Stood Still and xp got the nerfhammer. Some of us werent grinding and were really enjoying the craglorn dailies and i thought theyd become the new pledge for people already at v14 with nothing to do. But that enlightenment was short lived and now the backlash is painful. It took me 4 hours of questing with little bit of trash slaying inbetween to get a CP. Got enlightenment and ran CoA and Wayrest still didnt get a CP. The xp nerf is huge and id rather just bank my enlightenment to not have to deal with the painfully low numbers i got from killing a mob thus traveling between the dimensions of normal xp, and enlighted xp

Lava_Croft · March 2015

Soulshine's post says everything I had on my mind except one thing that has not been said enough lately:

I appreciate all the hard work that has gone into the Champion System, even though its current iteration is not very satisfying. Keep adjusting and and please roll back the insane amount of Champion Points some have gained to a more reasonable number.

And for the love of Mara, fix Cyrodiil.

x_Reckonerb14_ESO · March 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We've been reading your posts and understand that many of you are frustrated over recent developments in the game including how you gain Champion Points, how often you're able to gain a Point, how you can gain XP (and therefore, get Champion Points!), among a number of other things. We'd like you to tell us what you'd like to see instead, or how you'd like to do something differently than what's currently offered.

We can tell you that we are planning to adjust XP that you receive from dungeons and Trials so they offer a more viable way to level and/or receive Champion Points. We also are continuing to hammer on the Enlightenment issues that many of you are experiencing - we want to make sure it works so you can get the Points you deserve. Tell us what's been frustrating you, and we'll do our best to address it. Just remember to stay constructive and respectful - you're allowed to not like something, but tell us why and what we can do to make it better.

Thanks!

@ZOS_GinaBruno is there anyway we can increase the exp in pvp for this. A lot of us just enjoy pvping and not grinding in pve all the time. PvP Still takes skill and time i think it deserves the same bonuses for grabbing scroll/taking keeps/killing people as running a trial thats the same everytime.

TikiGamer · March 2015

I think cp gain needs to be balaced, as at the moment it obviously isn't.

Also it needs to support play styles that don't just involve killing large numbers of monsters. I mean at the moment, I get little to no CP experience by crafting or gathering (despite some CP bonuses being aimed at these activities). Also if I spend my time thieving, then I also get no CP xp.

My characters are all VR, but still, have some Gold or Silver progression, however I am dreading what happens when this runs out. I play solo mostly, so where to go afterwards for xp and cp? There needs to be content for vr10-14 solo players, and it needs to keep generating xp in a rewarding fashion.

Nazon_Katts · March 2015

Yeah, the current rate of CP without enlightenment is discouraging to play and makes me rather log out and wait for the next dose. Dropping to 25% progression rate is such a hard slow down, it just makes you want to lay down and don't do anything.

Enlightment should either last a little longer or a lot longer, but at a lower rate or normal gains should be increased, so that the gap between boosted and normal doesn't feel like progression coming to a halt anymore.

Turelus · March 2015

I kind of feel that the Justice System doesn't offer much experience.

As someone who was playing JS for the first two days while chatting with friends I was earning the small 900ish EXP for opening a chest but otherwise gained nothing to progress my character towards more CP.

I understand there is some experience in killing NPC's (at least I think there is) but I almost feel that there should be something rewarding for actually stealing.

The only thing I could think would be is an EXP reward each day when you max out your stolen items sold, or when you sell an item to an NPC you gain EXP equal to the value of the item sold.
Assuming a player sold only blue items worth 250 gold to the NPC with max level in Trafficker passive it would only be 35,000 a day.

Gidorick · March 2015

Honestly, the thing that frustrates me the most about this is the amount of time that was put into it, the apparent ineffectiveness of the system, and the amount of attention this issue will inevitably get.

I'm not vet rank and I couldn't care less about end game progression. I care about story, immersion, RP (not the stage-plays, just being "in-world"), and world mechanics than I care about progression. I'll play a game that is fun and entertaining that has no levels to gain and no points to earn all day long but a dull, vapid game dangles that carrot will not garner my attention for long.

The Champion System, stat balancing, nerfing this skill and buffing that one... all of these things have seemed to be the primary focus of "ESO Development" for the better part of the past year. What does it get us? Disgruntled players that complain and threaten to quit if the game isn't fixed in EXACTLY the way they want it to be fixed right away.

Who know who's not threatening to quit? Those of us who don't CARE about progression, yet the types of systems that will keep us playing, that will keep us coming back for more are on the backburner?

Why? Because we WILL stay... we're not threatening abandonment of this game because we can't sit in chair, because we can't climb ladders, because there's no barber shop, because there aren't children NPCs, because there isn't player housing, because there isn't a dynamic town economies, because there isn't a more immersive night, because there aren't Tamriel holiday event, because there isn't underwater exploration, or because we can't ride our mounts in first person.

We are staying... because we love The Elder Scrolls and we believe in ESO... despite the fact that the systems and content that would keep us entertained is constantly being pushed back for the min/maxers and those that chase to the end of the game.

I know this is pretty much the TES vs MMO argument but from what I've seen on these forums regarding the Champion System with half of the people wanting it to be 'fixed' in one way and the other have wanting it to be 'fixed' in the exact opposite way, I just hate that so much of ESO's development time has been spent on trying to make a system to retain players that seem quite impossible to please.

ESO can be amazing... but not if the primary focus continues to be the players that will run to end game only to stand there screaming that they want, need, deserve, and demand more.

Daveheart · March 2015

I think leaving the CP per point requirement the same wouldn't be so bad if a few (major) changes were made:

1: go back to the 4 CP of enlightenment per day.
2: increase the effectiveness of enlightenment so that a player rolling through trials, group dungeons, efficient PvP play, or grinding mobs can get these four points within about 2 hours of this type of game play. (The actual main quests listed for Caldwell's Silver/Gold should also provide a similar rate).
3: Leave CPXP gains out of enlightenment slower to reduce the incentive to spend all day every day grinding CP.
4: increase regular experience gained from mobs and quests to help players questing a new character get a whole vet level in the Caldwell's Silver/Gold zones without having to complete every single quest, dungeon, delve, dolmen, and world boss (like the non-vet zones but maybe not quite as easy).

The main goal would be to prevent excessive grinding from getting too far ahead while not making the gains so slow that people quit.

TagaParti · March 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We've been reading your posts and understand that many of you are frustrated over recent developments in the game including how you gain Champion Points, how often you're able to gain a Point, how you can gain XP (and therefore, get Champion Points!), among a number of other things. We'd like you to tell us what you'd like to see instead, or how you'd like to do something differently than what's currently offered.

We can tell you that we are planning to adjust XP that you receive from dungeons and Trials so they offer a more viable way to level and/or receive Champion Points. We also are continuing to hammer on the Enlightenment issues that many of you are experiencing - we want to make sure it works so you can get the Points you deserve. Tell us what's been frustrating you, and we'll do our best to address it. Just remember to stay constructive and respectful - you're allowed to not like something, but tell us why and what we can do to make it better.

Thanks!

when you look into the forum, all you can see are complains. well, it is very good to show us that you are listening to players. but il tell you this, these players who are posting in the forum dont even make a good percentage of your total players.

most players here in forum knows only complains, and they wont be satisfied. it even reached this point that it seems players of their kind are making this game, dictating everything they want, saying everything they can think of, which isnt properly think about compared to how you thought about it very much. players like me, most of them just enjoying the game and anything you offers us, dont complain. we trusted your game, thats why we are here playing. we do not want players who are crybabies change your design the way they want, we are not here to play their game, we are here to play zos game.

to conclude this, please stop listening too much to players. most of your players are not looking into the forum, they are very busy playing this awesome game. if you could make a category for this forum like "complains", all these threads will fall under that. listening to players is good, but everything that is too much is harmful.

your game is awesome. there are some bugs of course but you can fix them. and you have a very good game design, dont change it, everything youre giving us are better than other games, please dont listen to players who want you to go copy other games design.

if you listen to them, listen to me too. and start to stop listening! thank you.

WhiskyBob · March 2015

1. I would like to see people that exploited Cyrodill and reached 800cp punished.
Once we deal with that:
2. More XP from daily Undaunted quests.
3. More XP from Craglorn Daily quests
4. Give us back grinding in Skyreach

Ysne58 · March 2015

With the new people coming in, I think you need to allow CP gain from the start, not at level 50.

PvP should be a viable way of gaining CP (No I am not a PvPer). Since you aren't able to even out exp gain base it on overall AP gain somehow.

Crafting should contribute to gaining CP. I've seen several good suggestions on how to do that for even the people who have all crafting skill lines maxed out. Even if you base it on amount of inspiration gained, you still need to account for those who have maxed it out. Learn from what you did wrong with the undaunted skill line additions while not backtracking and giving people credit for what they had already done after getting to the previous max level. That was completely and inexcusably unfair. No, it did not affect me, I have just barely gotten to level 3 in undaunted.

Legerdemain (and any other new skill lines that get added) should contribute to gaining CP. Here again this line only maxes out at 10 -- I assume you plan to add to this skill line down the road-- please do not repeat the undaunted mistake you made.

Cut down the amount of xp needed to 100 or 200k exp and eliminate enlightenment.

Max the amount of CP someone can earn in a day or week, but make it a reasonable amount. 1 CP would be too little; I'm not sure how many would be too many.

Faugaun · March 2015

hollywood wrote: »

The way I see it 3600 being the cap is way too high , once someone hits that lvl they are so ridiculously stronger than a person with 0 CP that it isn't even funny.

My main concern is the power gap between new players/casuals and veterans/hardcores.

One way you could fix this is making the first CPs easier to earn and increase the amount of exp it takes to lvl up as you progress in the system (And keep enlightenment) , capping the benefits received for each star (Or introducing really harsh DR) and lowering the total amount os CP's available.

Let's assume a 360 CAP , the first 90 take 100k xp to lvl , the next 90 take 200k and so forth. With the stars giving a max benefit (say Mooncalf gives a max 15% stamina regen) or having a high DR the players with the max CP lvl won't be terribly stronger than player with half that amount.

That way it won't take forever for the hardcore group to max it out , while allowing a new player or casual to at least achieve a lvl where they can compete.

And something must be done about the PvP Exp. With enlightenment you get xp at an ok rate in PvP , but it doesn't hold a candle to the xp/time ratio you get on PvE.

@hollywood 34 points or less gets you 50% of the power in most cases you can see graphs of power curves here:

http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/

click on the individual calculators to see...stars do have a fixed maximum ranging from 12.8%-25% with one skill at 33% (defile).

Animal_Mother wrote: »

jwboudreau1b16_ESO wrote: »

Animal_Mother wrote: »

Get rid of the game changing major perks from the Champion system and you get rid of the grind and make the game fun again.

I already made a suggestion in another thread with something like @10 points able to port to the corresponding mundus stone on any map, @30 receive an ability for your skill bar, something like teleport to leader or combat rez, @75 get a title, and @120 CP receive a vanity item - pet or costume.

Give us some way of acquiring CPs in PvP. This had been mentioned several time since 1.6 appeared on the PTS and nothing, absolutely nothing has been done to address this short-coming.

Give us ways of earning CPs through crafting. I believe this was suggested during PTS as well.

Stop nerfing XP gains - this has happened more than once over the last year and it always seems to be a knee-jerk reaction and since the original players were rewarded (not punished) it only serves to penalize those that come later.

Give us some content.

I disagree with the first point. Quite a few of the gamechanging perks are pretty cool. It makes it worth getting champion points and it feels great to further customize your character.

Minor perks are the customization and can be expanded with @Faugaun 's suggestions from this post to for even more custom characters.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/155940/a-novel-observation

Thanks animal

@Zos Here's my solutions:

decouple CP from exp, link it to achievements instead...this allows players to do any activity that there is an achievement for and gain some progression. (this may require stacked achievements further than current, and the first level should provide the most CP):

An example: Fishing
Catch all rare fish in all zones: Rewards 100 AP
100 AP = 10 CP

Catch all rare fish in all zones twice: Rewards 95 AP

Catch all rare fish in all zones thrice: Rewards 90 AP

...

Catch all rare fish in all zones 20+: Rewards 5 AP (I mean if you really like fishing by all means).

you can see some various thoughts on this topic here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/149963/a-radical-redesign-of-the-champion-system#latest

Then in addition to that remove the vertical progression component to the champion system. Anything that adds to how well someone kills a mob or player should be off limits in a horizontal progression system. This means anything that buffs stats like hp, crit, magicka, spell cost, cast speed, healing effectiveness, healing amount, healing received...hopefully you get the point....that is all vertical progression and in a long (theoretically never ending system, not really though because if people think they can max it then they will...it's how mmo players think). Replace them with fun increases your play style options. Let me sneak better, let me run faster in stealth (at least in pve and possibly in pvp, that speed stacked nb from before ...yeah that was cool and guess what despite people complaining about it ...it actually required the player to give up other stats in exchange...which was fair and allowed a novel playstyle)...you can see some passives suggestions:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/155940/a-novel-observation#latest

Shoot for the title of best mmo to RP in (while getting cp/achievement points etc...):

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150031/how-zos-can-get-lots-of-new-players/p1

Fix the PvP exp with a dynamic system based on balances and counter balances to create a self correcting distribution like this:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154286/fixed-dynamic-experience-for-pvp-at-a-rate-of-100k-exp-per-hour#latest

Common I made that in 30 min ... (it's not as good as my newer formula which too 8 hours...but it lagged my web browser on the better version....but it could be easily implemented into cyrodil. Then publish the numbers...when factions are sucking or low on players the exp will be high attracting more players...and when a faction is strong compared to the ocmpetition the exp will be low and attract fewer players ...make a players reward in the zone per kill very visible, maybe on their map over cyrodil in big red letters...or at least in their pvp screen where they select which instance they will join.

eliminate redundancy in the CS system:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153849/champion-system-passives-redundancy#latest

create competition servers so pvper's don't rely on doing something they don't enjoy to stay competitive at what they do enjoy:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153432/suggestion-competition-server#latest

Answer this question:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/151651/whats-the-point#latest

The solution is to allow alts under vr rank to earn cp also so that players can if they choose play alts without feeling like they will be left behind.

If you reduce the maximum power of stars then change the displayed percent from xx.x% to xx.xx% otherwise there will be points where players cannot easily see the change and that's discouraging, I tend to agree the stars overall give too much power and I have looked at them fairly extensively when I created the calculators (http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/):

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/151471/cs-bonus-display#latest

Better yet make passives that don't impact my combat stats but are still desirable, these arn't great but they are a starting point:

Pack Rat - Increases the inventory space on your character by 1 for each point in this star.

Fast Traveler - decreases the cost of teleporting to a WS by x% (this would effect both the base level and the increased cost teleport that occurs when you attempt to do this multiple times in a row).

Shadow Mastery - Decreases your stealth radius by x%

Speed Demon - Increases all movement speed by X%

Expert Thief - x% chance of upgrading the quality of stolen items by 1 level. (So x% that a white would be green or a green would be blue...basically a modifier for loot quality).

Explorer - increases exploration exp by x% (this is a great star to increase the speed that alts get to vr1, if that's desired, and has minimal impact on CP generation).

Acrobat - decreases fall damage by x%

Combat Affinity - Increases your out of combat health/stamina/magicka regen by x% (so your back in the fray quicker).

War veteran - increases AP gain by x%

Marathoner - Increases the duration of consumables by x% increasing your body's efficiency at using food and drinks.

Sous Chef - upon crafting a consumable you have a x% chance to automatically upgrade it to the next quality level.

Master Hunter - Decreases the radius that creatures (I'm thinking game animals, mammoths, guar, dwemer, seneche etc... not people, giants, players, bandits etc...).

Lucky - Increases gold looted from enemies by x% (maybe impacts # of items and/or item quality)

Master Vampire - Increases the duration of vampire stages by x% at 30 CP it also unlocks the ability to vomit instantly increasing your hunger level by 1 (example: 3 -> 4)

Master of Disguise - your criminal heat dissipates x% quicker

Alfa Wolf - increase duration of werewolf transform by x% (nothing game breaking, maybe 15-20%). Reduce ultimate cost by y% (15-20% at maximum).

Sorry it's a long list but this outlines the approach I would take..no it's not comprehensive or perfect but I think it creates a great starting point.

Rust_in_Peace · March 2015

- All daily quests should give more EXP (including Writs)
- PvP kills, objectives and quests should give more EXP. Ever since the removal of Forward Camps it takes a lot longer to get AP and conversely XP from pvping. I think you should also take a look at AP gained as well.
- Grinding should be allowed if that's what people want to do, but it shouldn't be the only way. It should be something people do when they've finished all the other daily quests because they give really good exp. Take time into consideration as well; if a quest takes an hour and gives half the amount of EXP you could get from just straight grinding then there's really no point in doing the quests, is there?

Faugaun · March 2015

@zos oh one additional thing I forgot ... Please stop the nerfs...I can still get an enlightened CP in 20-25 min (not exploiting unless killing a big circle of enemies in the open world that takes about 5 minutes a loop to kill) is considered exploiting...

each time you nerf you exchange one problem for another...the real underlying problem is that casual players and hardcore grinders (i am by no means the fastest or most determined i'm at 79.5 champion ranks atm) ...the problem is there will always be grinders ....grinders will always find the most efficient ways to progress...casual players are an entirely (and probably larger..but thats just me making an assumption on my perspective) different group....creating a system that accomodates both of these players is very very very....very difficult...because each time you nerf for the grinders it also nerfs the casuals...too much nerfing and the casuals leave...no nerfing and the grinders get to far ahead...and the casuals leave...the fact is hardcore players will always go out of their way to be the best and casuals either do not have time to or choose not to (which is completely understandable and valid).

The best approach (IMHO) is to make CP easy to get...so there is no need to grind the cp and then daily cap them at whatever desired progression rate you choose.....call it 4 per day if that's what you think is fair. 1 per day, 100 per day, it's all the same as long as everyone has equal opportunity....but if they don't impact combat then a capped system may not even be necessary because it will be cool and novel and fun but not necessary...which is what the cs should be...

Lefty_Lucy · March 2015

My character receives enlightenment status once in a blue moon, and it simply disappears within 15 minutes, without me even getting to use it.

Is this working as intended? How is enlightenment supposed to be earned and discharged?

I suggest enlightenment is earned based on time spent offline. I also suggest that ZOS clearly states how the enlightenment system is supposed to work, because no one I talk to understands it clearly. Everyone's just speculating.

It's very frustrating that I have had less than an hour of enlightenment time since update 1.6, putting me significantly far behind my friends who have had nonstop enlightenment.

CP's need a full rollback until this gets fixed, because it is extremely unfair for me to play the same content as my friends and get 25% of the CP out of it.

I want to have as much enlightened time as everyone else. $:\$