Champion System and XP Feedback

Max2497

1. Increase to 3 enlightenment CP per day, one of each color.
2. Extend enlightenment banking to a week.
3. Cap total CPs at 6 per day.

Mystikkal

With the current XP gains, you can go to 2 enlightment per day, anything more is too much for the casual gamer to keep up with - which is the whole point of the system.

Kuro1n

Considering the patch notes it seems they do not give a single *** about the PVP EXP. Thanks ZOS. /s

TiberiusTryton

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We've been reading your posts and understand that many of you are frustrated over recent developments in the game including how you gain Champion Points, how often you're able to gain a Point, how you can gain XP (and therefore, get Champion Points!), among a number of other things. We'd like you to tell us what you'd like to see instead, or how you'd like to do something differently than what's currently offered.

We can tell you that we are planning to adjust XP that you receive from dungeons and Trials so they offer a more viable way to level and/or receive Champion Points. We also are continuing to hammer on the Enlightenment issues that many of you are experiencing - we want to make sure it works so you can get the Points you deserve. Tell us what's been frustrating you, and we'll do our best to address it. Just remember to stay constructive and respectful - you're allowed to not like something, but tell us why and what we can do to make it better.

Thanks!

Can we get a Yes or No to if you guys reset or rolled back the players to have rumored they keep bonus exploit or clear up any confusion to if anyone actually already capped points or got crazy amounts. This is your community and people need clarification please. It will be hard to be competitive if someone is already running around with max points.

Faugaun

roechacca wrote: »

Despite the over whelming amount of yes choices the no choice still out numbers them all combined

I ran my own poll...i do not think people are against reasonable limits that will not likely impact them in any way and prevent extreme exploitation. In fact 54% actually voted for options that explicitly had capped exp. The other 46% may or may not be against capped exp it cannot be determined from this poll.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/156066/poll-on-capped-experience#latest

GreyRanger

Max2497 wrote: »

1. Increase to 3 enlightenment CP per day, one of each color.
2. Extend enlightenment banking to a week.
3. Cap total CPs at 6 per day.

I could go for this, but I would cap at 4 per day

Lassiter

I'm a casual player... that said I feel that earning CP is slow at the moment (outside of the grinding groups) for solo questing and group dungeons. Trials not sure because have yet to run them again since patch, but I'm sure there slow as well. I do want it to be balanced for whatever a player decides to do with their time... pve or pvp!

I think CP points should be earned from day one for a character, and maybe introduce the Champion system at level 5 so the new player has a bit of time and is not overwhelmed with the game. They can then start to spend what they have earned at level 5. VR1+ and earning CP points for your account seems unfair, please lower!

Have a few CP earned from quests as a reward... a few daily quests for PVE and a few for PVP.

darkrozes_rob16_ESO

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2yhaxi/how_i_reached_champion_level_3600_in_2_days/

This is for real or just a joke ?

wraith808

darkrozes_rob16_ESO wrote: »

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2yhaxi/how_i_reached_champion_level_3600_in_2_days/

This is for real or just a joke ?

Joke. They've already said they have no one with over 150 CP on live.

Skiserony

Soulshine wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Thank you for posting the thread.

I suppose I am in a very small minority here and this many never be considered, but I do not understand why this system was implemented on the basis of XP gains to begin with, rather than earned achievements in the game.

In light of the fact that the Champion System is completely still tied to VR, and that we have no ETA in sight yet for when VR will actually be removed ---- IF it will at all ---- why would you tie Champion Points to experience points alone?

Especially when the rate at which XP given is completely unabalanced, grind spots of excessive XP have proven to be the historical vehicle of problems which you keep having to nerf, etc., it seems illogical.

Playing the game, in whatever manner someone chooses to do it, renders XP but it does not necessarily render achievements that represent the player's investment in the game's core features like PvP, Trials, or healing people in dungeons, opening 5000 chests, whatever. I for one would feel my acheivements actually meant something if they were represented by Champion points as opposed to five shades of pink.

Please consider devising a scale where there is an equivalent amount of CPs rewarded for PvP achievments and PvE alike as a character progresses through post level 50 content.

Agree. And remove increase of stats with the more CP you get. At least for PvP.

Roechacca

Faugaun wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Despite the over whelming amount of yes choices the no choice still out numbers them all combined

I ran my own poll...i do not think people are against reasonable limits that will not likely impact them in any way and prevent extreme exploitation. In fact 54% actually voted for options that explicitly had capped exp. The other 46% may or may not be against capped exp it cannot be determined from this poll.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/156066/poll-on-capped-experience#latest

Your poll didn't include a no cap option this one did

ToRelax

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Enable people to have diverse builds in PvP without giving a huge advantage to those who have lots of time to grind (in whatever form) to gain strong passives that others won't have. Let SKILL matter, not the CP passives on top of everything else.

Introduce max 330 CP activated campaigns
* Current number of CP (~70) does NOT enable build diversity - the build for my main for example does not work yet due to not having enough CP - it used to work very very well in 1.5
* 330 CP is a reachable goal for many and does not yet create an incredibly huge difference. 70 vs 330 is *relevant*, but it's not completely utterly OP
* Campaigns because people still want to be able to choose between different campaigns based on population bars, lag, and other factors.
* These campaigns must be available to any character that is willing to only have 330 CP activated, no matter how much CP the player may have earned in total

Very much agree.

Also they should take CP from players who already gained a lot due to enlightenment with a cap of 100 or so imo. The many CP some already have was only possible due to perma elightenment bug so players will feel cheated if it stays as it is now.

Faugaun

Poll on Capped Experience 31 votes
I like option A but not option B
9%
SwordsingermadangrypallyJLB 3 votes
I like option B but not option A
16%
XelphosPanda244jelliedsoupphairdonginoboehm 5 votes
I like both options A and B
29%
Fat_Cat45dwemer_paleologistn.englishb14_ESOCoatmagicsparafucilsarwb17_ESOElijah_CrowFaugaunTicussKragorn 9 votes
I don't like options A or B but suggest an alternative
3%
Grapdjan 1 vote
I don't like options A or B and I think Zos is doing a great job thinking for themselves
32%
GidorickThymosBrandalfShadesofkinsnowmanflvb14_ESOthomas.k.grayb14_ESOPierre.Steegb16_ESOgurgnirAshySamuraiDerra 10 votes
Other: I'm not sure what other you can imagine but here's the option and please explain.
9%
c0rpBloodfangVandarix 3 votes

roechacca wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Despite the over whelming amount of yes choices the no choice still out numbers them all combined

I ran my own poll...i do not think people are against reasonable limits that will not likely impact them in any way and prevent extreme exploitation. In fact 54% actually voted for options that explicitly had capped exp. The other 46% may or may not be against capped exp it cannot be determined from this poll.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/156066/poll-on-capped-experience#latest

Your poll didn't include a no cap option this one did

Zos's current system is a no cap...so there is...also there is an other option with request for explanation...and not one person commented for no cap....it still remains that 54% voted for options that explicitly included caps, even assuming all of the others are against caps its still a majority that are OK with the idea (they may disagree on implementation. Or details). I think it is unfair to assume that the 46 remainder all were absolutely opposed to caps as well so it is likely even less than 46% that are absolutely opposed to cp cap.

Roechacca

Faugaun wrote: »

Poll on Capped Experience 31 votes
I like option A but not option B
9%
SwordsingermadangrypallyJLB 3 votes
I like option B but not option A
16%
XelphosPanda244jelliedsoupphairdonginoboehm 5 votes
I like both options A and B
29%
Fat_Cat45dwemer_paleologistn.englishb14_ESOCoatmagicsparafucilsarwb17_ESOElijah_CrowFaugaunTicussKragorn 9 votes
I don't like options A or B but suggest an alternative
3%
Grapdjan 1 vote
I don't like options A or B and I think Zos is doing a great job thinking for themselves
32%
GidorickThymosBrandalfShadesofkinsnowmanflvb14_ESOthomas.k.grayb14_ESOPierre.Steegb16_ESOgurgnirAshySamuraiDerra 10 votes
Other: I'm not sure what other you can imagine but here's the option and please explain.
9%
c0rpBloodfangVandarix 3 votes

roechacca wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Despite the over whelming amount of yes choices the no choice still out numbers them all combined

I ran my own poll...i do not think people are against reasonable limits that will not likely impact them in any way and prevent extreme exploitation. In fact 54% actually voted for options that explicitly had capped exp. The other 46% may or may not be against capped exp it cannot be determined from this poll.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/156066/poll-on-capped-experience#latest

Your poll didn't include a no cap option this one did

Zos's current system is a no cap...so there is...also there is an other option with request for explanation...and not one person commented for no cap....it still remains that 54% voted for options that explicitly included caps, even assuming all of the others are against caps its still a majority that are OK with the idea (they may disagree on implementation. Or details). I think it is unfair to assume that the 46 remainder all were absolutely opposed to caps as well so it is likely even less than 46% that are absolutely opposed to cp cap.

Well that's just like ... Your interpretation Man ...

trimsic_ESO

1) The strength of an MMO community highly depends on the high-end contents of a game and the rewards in place for completing such contents. People should be encouraged to team together to achieve these contents and get the rewards. Grinding mobs at a spot has the exact opposite effect on the community: it divides people.

Because People think that the champion system is yet another huge VR to grind, they grind their CP at some spot, with 2 or 3 of their friends. The impact on the community is extremely negative and endanger the future of the game.

The champion system needs therefore some fine tuning. The relation between XP and CP should be designed with a ratio that depends on players' activity. For instance, people who grind their VR at some spots should gain a fair XP, but the conversion to CP should be extremely low. On the contrary, the conversion to CP should be very high for the people who play the high end contents of ESO (PVP, pledges, dailies, dungeons, ...). They strengthen the ESO community, the future of the game, and they should be rewarded for that.

2) Please rollback to 70-80 CP those who exploited the champion system at some grinding spots. They know they have exploited the system, but they won't admit it, using as an excuse "the lack of tests from the QA teams" before the game is released. No mercy on these exploiters, as they should not be rewarded.

mlstevens42_ESO

I think the exp to get one cp without enlightenment is to much. I feel that enlightenment should last longer. There needs to be a way to keep people from getting to many cp's to quickly. You want to entice them to play the game yes but not get that carrot to soon.

My suggestions are:

Lower exp from 400k to 200k per cp.
Allow one to be enlightened for up to 4 cp
Cap cp gain per day to 10.

The lower exp per cp encourages one to continue to try to get cp even while outside of enlightenment.

One for each color plus one each day with in a couple of hours allows those with little time to play games to feel they have accomplished something during their free time.

Limiting one to 10 cp a day would allow one starting from 0 cp today to gain the cap in a year. This allows those that wish to play all day to gain a small advantage in the short run over those that have less time to spend. If one gained say 4 cps a day they would have around 1450 or so in a year but would still allow them to have gained all of the passives if one so desired them.

There would be no way for any one to get over the 10 per day mark and therefore would be less reason to nerf the exp gains in any particular section. Perhaps then the exp could be returned to their former rates, which solves some of the issues of where to go to get exp in the first place. Then there should be several areas to play. Also rates should be adjusted to give similar rates of increase to those that wish to do dungeons or pvp.

f047ys3v3n

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone,

We just completed a hotfix on the North American and European megaservers that have addressed the following:

We've adjusted the XP gain in the following areas to be more in-line with the rest of Craglorn:
Skyreach Hold
Skyreach Catacombs
Skyreach Temple
Skyreach Pinnacle
Rahni'Za School
Shada's Tear
The Mage's Staff
Seeker's Archive
We fixed an issue where more Enlightenment was being given per day than intended. You will now gain one Champion Point worth of Enlightenment per day.

In addition, we have identified an exploitable bug and, as a result, have temporarily disabled all Keep bonuses in Cyrodiil. We'll let you know as soon as these are re-enabled.

This list is not complete and I believe disingenuous. The XP nerf on the 7th was more comprehensive than this. We have noticed while farming martial knowledge that delve standard mobs in Cyridill have gone from ~96xp to ~86xp. We have also noticed at least some standard mobs in overland Cadwells silver areas have gone from ~512xp to more like ~440xp. It is my suspicion that if we had a more comprehensive list of prior XP numbers on hand and compared them to current numbers we would find that all mobs, at least in vet zones, were probably nerfed on the 7th.

Why have you deceived us? If you are genuinely concerned with XP and CP questing rates and are pondering an increase why have you actually decreased these rates by nerfing the overland mobs in silver that are the majority of the XP gain in these quests? I do not believe this large scale unreported nerf was an oversight because the percentages that different mobs were nerfed differ. Please offer an explanation because in light of many of the changes in 1.6 this looks very much like an attempt to push the pause button on player progression in anticipation of the BTP and console launches when those who are clearly the more valued customers will be joining.

HyperToxic

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone,

We just completed a hotfix on the North American and European megaservers that have addressed the following:

We've adjusted the XP gain in the following areas to be more in-line with the rest of Craglorn:
Skyreach Hold
Skyreach Catacombs
Skyreach Temple
Skyreach Pinnacle
Rahni'Za School
Shada's Tear
The Mage's Staff
Seeker's Archive
We fixed an issue where more Enlightenment was being given per day than intended. You will now gain one Champion Point worth of Enlightenment per day.

In addition, we have identified an exploitable bug and, as a result, have temporarily disabled all Keep bonuses in Cyrodiil. We'll let you know as soon as these are re-enabled.

This list is not complete and I believe disingenuous. The XP nerf on the 7th was more comprehensive than this. We have noticed while farming martial knowledge that delve standard mobs in Cyridill have gone from ~96xp to ~86xp. We have also noticed at least some standard mobs in overland Cadwells silver areas have gone from ~512xp to more like ~440xp. It is my suspicion that if we had a more comprehensive list of prior XP numbers on hand and compared them to current numbers we would find that all mobs, at least in vet zones, were probably nerfed on the 7th.

Why have you deceived us? If you are genuinely concerned with XP and CP questing rates and are pondering an increase why have you actually decreased these rates by nerfing the overland mobs in silver that are the majority of the XP gain in these quests? I do not believe this large scale unreported nerf was an oversight because the percentages that different mobs were nerfed differ. Please offer an explanation because in light of many of the changes in 1.6 this looks very much like an attempt to push the pause button on player progression in anticipation of the BTP and console launches when those who are clearly the more valued customers will be joining.

This is completely correct in terms of the xp loss after the nerf to the "Skyreach" grinds. Any vet mobs that I encountered that day went down by at least 10% globally. Funny thing is I would rather do content to get xp, but as far as I'm aware no content in the game gives xp at a rate that I can get a CP per hour. I suppose if anyone is playing the game in ten years then someone will have 3600 points...

Faugaun

As of yesterday afternoon can still get a cp in under 24 min under enlightenment killing open world mobs. Just have to speed up your kill rate and skip selling stuff at town, skip all the other things that slow you down.

HyperToxic wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone,

We just completed a hotfix on the North American and European megaservers that have addressed the following:

We've adjusted the XP gain in the following areas to be more in-line with the rest of Craglorn:
Skyreach Hold
Skyreach Catacombs
Skyreach Temple
Skyreach Pinnacle
Rahni'Za School
Shada's Tear
The Mage's Staff
Seeker's Archive
We fixed an issue where more Enlightenment was being given per day than intended. You will now gain one Champion Point worth of Enlightenment per day.

In addition, we have identified an exploitable bug and, as a result, have temporarily disabled all Keep bonuses in Cyrodiil. We'll let you know as soon as these are re-enabled.

This list is not complete and I believe disingenuous. The XP nerf on the 7th was more comprehensive than this. We have noticed while farming martial knowledge that delve standard mobs in Cyridill have gone from ~96xp to ~86xp. We have also noticed at least some standard mobs in overland Cadwells silver areas have gone from ~512xp to more like ~440xp. It is my suspicion that if we had a more comprehensive list of prior XP numbers on hand and compared them to current numbers we would find that all mobs, at least in vet zones, were probably nerfed on the 7th.

Why have you deceived us? If you are genuinely concerned with XP and CP questing rates and are pondering an increase why have you actually decreased these rates by nerfing the overland mobs in silver that are the majority of the XP gain in these quests? I do not believe this large scale unreported nerf was an oversight because the percentages that different mobs were nerfed differ. Please offer an explanation because in light of many of the changes in 1.6 this looks very much like an attempt to push the pause button on player progression in anticipation of the BTP and console launches when those who are clearly the more valued customers will be joining.

This is completely correct in terms of the xp loss after the nerf to the "Skyreach" grinds. Any vet mobs that I encountered that day went down by at least 10% globally. Funny thing is I would rather do content to get xp, but as far as I'm aware no content in the game gives xp at a rate that I can get a CP per hour. I suppose if anyone is playing the game in ten years then someone will have 3600 points...

Yonkit

Any chance we'll just keep the enemy keep crit bonus % out of pve altogether? As a trialist who likes to pvp, I loathe having to go "defend my buff server" because we're trying to shave 6 seconds off the top time to beat AD (comfortably homed in Azura's Star or wherever anymore). I just want my pve to be pve and those times I go pvp with my pvp guild to be something else entirely, but when you are losing 10% of your dps because buffs are disappearing, it's beyond obnoxious for everyone.

Go parley between rival pvp guilds for 2 hours because everyone's an ass and somehow politics decides when groups will and will not come out to support the faction and tell me you don't wanna just kill yourself. Rather, let's just kill pve buffs from pvp instead. Everyone will be happy. I promise.

derpsticks

Do people not realize that disabled keep buffs also disables up to 15% xp bonus and gold bonus from mobs everywhere?

Grouping with one other person and being in a buff server gave players 25% bonus xp.

To get one point they would have to grind 320,000 xp. 20% less xp needed than a regular player.

With rings of mara those same players would only need 296,296 xp. Nearly 26% less xp needed than a regular player.

With a sub, after TU is released those same players would only need 275,862 xp. 31% less xp needed than a regular unsubbed player.

DeLindsay

We've been telling you how to fix the XP Disparity since 1.6 was on PTS via Feedback, Forums, Reddit and elsewhere. It's only now that you all decide to pop in and actually make an official statement about it. I will quote part of my own THREAD about this very topic in this post, so maybe you guys will actually look at it this time

DeLindsay wrote: »

Now lets look at how this can be fixed to actually bring all playstyles in ESO inline with each other so that Players don't feel forced to Grind for CP, considering many are done with Cadwell's Silver and Gold, don't care about leveling another Character just to do it again, would rather just PvP all day, or even just spend time Crafting and running around Farming with a little Roleplaying on the side, based on a VR14 that's Enlightened.

• Grinding: Stop nerfing it, don't change it any more.
• Questing: Increase Quest turn in XP by 10-15% across the board for all Solo Quests & 15-25% for all Group Quests.
• VDSA: Increase the XP per Trash NPC killed by 5-10% & 15-20% per Boss kill.
• Trials/Vet Dungeons:
  • Double the XP for the Coffer quest or more. It should be worth 2x what the Vet Pledge Quest is worth (after increasing it as well).
  • Increase the XP for Trash NPC's by 5-10% & 15-25% per Boss kill.
  • A full Clear of any Vet Dungeon plus turning in the Vet Pledge should be worth ~200K CP (50K XP on Enlightened).
• PvP: Double the XP gain across the board (except quests, treat them as listed above). I don't honestly know if even doubling it would be enough, but it's a start. And I don't care about Gina's report that says some Players are good at XP in Cyro, obviously the majority are not or we wouldn't have daily threads about it.
• Legerdemain: You'd still only gain 1CP every 2-4 hours but it's better than several days like it is now.
  • Increase Safebox XP to 1460, keep open World Chests at 915 XP.
  • Add XP for all Lockpicked Homes at 1460 per.
  • Keep the mechanic that if you force a lock you get no XP.
  • Pickpocketing should increase but on a sliding scale as it becomes a guaranteed success later on.
    • Hard = 1460 XP
    • Medium = 915 XP
    • Easy = 277 XP
• Crafting Writs: Increase them to 2088 each. With 8 Characters doing 6 Writs daily you'd gain 1CP per day.
• Farming: Add 277 XP per node Gathered, completely (meaning no more leaving Worms or get no XP). This would be 1CP per hour if you Gathered 1 node very 10 seconds. Realistically you'd gain 1CP every 2-4 hours.
• Crafting:
  • Refining: Add 27 XP per Refine (works out to be roughly 1CP every 1-2 hours of non stop "my fingers are bleeding" Refining/selling/Inventory mgmt/etc).
  • Crafting: Add 27 XP per Craft (about the same as above with more Inventory mini-game).
  • Research: Add 2088 XP per completed Trait Research. (wouldn't give you even 1CP but it'd still benefit Crafters).
• Roleplaying: I honestly have no idea what to add to this but ZoS should offer them something XP wise.

I want to actually change what I said about stop nerfing Grinding to restore the XP Craglorn enemies used to give and actually fix the perma Enlightened bug instead of hurting everyone who didn't Grind and still have Characters to get to VR14. Craglorn now gives so little XP that VR10-14 is beyond horrible, all in the name of slowing CP progression.

If I'm being honest I don't see ZoS actually changing anything for the better. ZoS has a history of blanket nerfing things and not at all balancing them. It's extreme right or extreme left with nothing in the middle. Right now, even after the great Craglorn nerfs of 2015, Grinding is still #1 (which it should be) and Qeusting is still #2 (but only if you have Silver/Gold left) then everything else kind of falls off the ZoS radar. Farming, Crafting, Legerdemain, Roleplaying give little to no XP yet are just as valid playstyles that take up hours/daily of Players time but they get 0 CP/daily for their efforts. PvP is a complete joke for XP > CP for the majority of Players who actually go and PvP instead of doing the PvE dailies at the Quest hubs.

I would love it if the devs actually listened to the Player base (not the crying bads that demand this or that nerf) but history speaks for itself and there's no denying that ZoS doesn't seem to listen when it matters. We told them repeatedly during PTS and even before that Grinding would be the only valid way to gain CP in 1.6 for most all VR14's since many are done with Gold/Silver. Instead of buffing all other content's XP ZoS instead just further nerfed Grinding XP, ZoS logic.

f047ys3v3n

derpsticks wrote: »

Do people not realize that disabled keep buffs also disables up to 15% xp bonus and gold bonus from mobs everywhere?

Grouping with one other person and being in a buff server gave players 25% bonus xp.

To get one point they would have to grind 320,000 xp. 20% less xp needed than a regular player.

With rings of mara those same players would only need 296,296 xp. Nearly 26% less xp needed than a regular player.

With a sub, after TU is released those same players would only need 275,862 xp. 31% less xp needed than a regular unsubbed player.

I think you may have the ticket here with the keep bonuses and that I am being paranoid.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Capping CP is a bad idea, it is way to artificial.

Just put diminishing returns on mob types and bosses then increase the xp you get from mbos, problem solved.

DeLindsay wrote: »

We've been telling you how to fix the XP Disparity since 1.6 was on PTS via Feedback, Forums, Reddit and elsewhere. It's only now that you all decide to pop in and actually make an official statement about it. I will quote part of my own THREAD about this very topic in this post, so maybe you guys will actually look at it this time

DeLindsay wrote: »

Now lets look at how this can be fixed to actually bring all playstyles in ESO inline with each other so that Players don't feel forced to Grind for CP, considering many are done with Cadwell's Silver and Gold, don't care about leveling another Character just to do it again, would rather just PvP all day, or even just spend time Crafting and running around Farming with a little Roleplaying on the side, based on a VR14 that's Enlightened.

• Grinding: Stop nerfing it, don't change it any more.
• Questing: Increase Quest turn in XP by 10-15% across the board for all Solo Quests & 15-25% for all Group Quests.
• VDSA: Increase the XP per Trash NPC killed by 5-10% & 15-20% per Boss kill.
• Trials/Vet Dungeons:
  • Double the XP for the Coffer quest or more. It should be worth 2x what the Vet Pledge Quest is worth (after increasing it as well).
  • Increase the XP for Trash NPC's by 5-10% & 15-25% per Boss kill.
  • A full Clear of any Vet Dungeon plus turning in the Vet Pledge should be worth ~200K CP (50K XP on Enlightened).
• PvP: Double the XP gain across the board (except quests, treat them as listed above). I don't honestly know if even doubling it would be enough, but it's a start. And I don't care about Gina's report that says some Players are good at XP in Cyro, obviously the majority are not or we wouldn't have daily threads about it.
• Legerdemain: You'd still only gain 1CP every 2-4 hours but it's better than several days like it is now.
  • Increase Safebox XP to 1460, keep open World Chests at 915 XP.
  • Add XP for all Lockpicked Homes at 1460 per.
  • Keep the mechanic that if you force a lock you get no XP.
  • Pickpocketing should increase but on a sliding scale as it becomes a guaranteed success later on.
    • Hard = 1460 XP
    • Medium = 915 XP
    • Easy = 277 XP
• Crafting Writs: Increase them to 2088 each. With 8 Characters doing 6 Writs daily you'd gain 1CP per day.
• Farming: Add 277 XP per node Gathered, completely (meaning no more leaving Worms or get no XP). This would be 1CP per hour if you Gathered 1 node very 10 seconds. Realistically you'd gain 1CP every 2-4 hours.
• Crafting:
  • Refining: Add 27 XP per Refine (works out to be roughly 1CP every 1-2 hours of non stop "my fingers are bleeding" Refining/selling/Inventory mgmt/etc).
  • Crafting: Add 27 XP per Craft (about the same as above with more Inventory mini-game).
  • Research: Add 2088 XP per completed Trait Research. (wouldn't give you even 1CP but it'd still benefit Crafters).
• Roleplaying: I honestly have no idea what to add to this but ZoS should offer them something XP wise.

I want to actually change what I said about stop nerfing Grinding to restore the XP Craglorn enemies used to give and actually fix the perma Enlightened bug instead of hurting everyone who didn't Grind and still have Characters to get to VR14. Craglorn now gives so little XP that VR10-14 is beyond horrible, all in the name of slowing CP progression.

If I'm being honest I don't see ZoS actually changing anything for the better. ZoS has a history of blanket nerfing things and not at all balancing them. It's extreme right or extreme left with nothing in the middle. Right now, even after the great Craglorn nerfs of 2015, Grinding is still #1 (which it should be) and Qeusting is still #2 (but only if you have Silver/Gold left) then everything else kind of falls off the ZoS radar. Farming, Crafting, Legerdemain, Roleplaying give little to no XP yet are just as valid playstyles that take up hours/daily of Players time but they get 0 CP/daily for their efforts. PvP is a complete joke for XP > CP for the majority of Players who actually go and PvP instead of doing the PvE dailies at the Quest hubs.

I would love it if the devs actually listened to the Player base (not the crying bads that demand this or that nerf) but history speaks for itself and there's no denying that ZoS doesn't seem to listen when it matters. We told them repeatedly during PTS and even before that Grinding would be the only valid way to gain CP in 1.6 for most all VR14's since many are done with Gold/Silver. Instead of buffing all other content's XP ZoS instead just further nerfed Grinding XP, ZoS logic.

While I do agree all quest xp should be buffed I don't necessarily agree on the amounts. However a diminishing return would need to be put on repeatable quests as well.

50% next time you do it 25% the third time etc with a 24 hour time perhaps.

also on the first point I would put "double xp gained from mobs and bosses maybe more"

Then apply diminishing returns 50% next time you kill the same boss with a 6 hour or so DR.

Mob types 50% xp from mobs of the same type after 10 kills 25% after 20 kills 0% after 30 with a 6 hour or so CD.

Again numbers are arbitrary.

The key is applying DR whenever it makes sense, take Cyrodiil for example. People already abuse the mechanics of defensive ticks because diminishing returns don't apply. They have the same 5 or so ppl suicide on a node with their buddy sitting there tagging them for the AP, you can tell by looking at the Emp board who does this as they will pull millions of AP ahead of those who don't.

Imagine that applied to the CP as well. Once again DR applied to the kills AS WELL AS the D tick where those same ppl are killed have to be applied or you will have abuse.

mlstevens42_ESO

I know it would be great to get a different angle then capping but capping cp I think to be far easier to implement with fewer problems then something fancy like diminishing returns on critters killed and all of that.

The goal with capping the cp amount is to help with a few different issues.

Less need to nerf all exp into the ground some people have not even one vr 14, and I do not see them getting one very soon either with all of the nerfs in place. Even after they get their cp for the day grinding or what not they can still gain exp towards levels. With the exp at decent levels in more places folks can spread out and everyone can get where they want to go. Forcing everyone into one little section just leads to fighting. Accusations of this one or that leaching and so on. There are a lot of areas in the game that could be utilized for this actvity. While I am speaking of the grind here it really goes for exp on all mobs in general.

It prevents those with all kinds of time to leap way out in front of those with less. Yes I know it is not what is wanted, but if there is a way to get there faster they will do it. It is just how some people are. Hard caps prevent this issue when the intent is for this to last a bit.

Also there is the matter of perception. No matter what you tell folks that these cp's are not the end all they are going to insist that someone with x number greater then they have is the cause for them to not to be able to be a pvp master or get into groups for trails and what not. If grinders or whatever you want to call them can not get there to fast there will be less complaining. ( Note I am not saying there will not be any complaining. Since we all know even if people do not have a real reason they will find one.)

Might not be a glorious or glamorous solution this is true. Would rather have something that works well the first time rather then having to mess with it over and over to get it right.

As it stands right now though the system to me is painfully slow. Gives little incentive to keep playing to be honest. I already have four vr 14 charectors and two more that are vr level. Leveling the fifth one to vr 14 is a chore and well I do not want to play a game like it is a job. Do not mistake my intent I could play for over ten hours every day. So yes I could be one of those with massive cp in a fairly short time if I found a grind spot worthy of that. So I am asking to cap knowing it could keep me from being massive in short order .

Olysja

PLEASE increase the pvp experience, i can't go 15h day grinding the same spot for 10cp day, i prefer to play 15h day inside cyrondill but not for 1,5 cps cmon. don't let player choose between grind like a tard and play the game like a player. give the opportunity to grow up also to players that really like this game.

geophonic_ESO

Hi folks,

my 2 cents on this:

I would say that first of all the developers should have an idea of what minimum time frame they have in mind in which the 3600 champion points can be reached. At 1 CP/day we would be looking at 10 years, 5 CP/day is roughly 2 years. Now, this means they also need a perspective for their game, i.e. is there enough ideas on the drawing board to account for content for 2 years, 5 years, or even 10 years (and to be honest, with the current fluctuation of MMOs it´s hard to believe we will ever see healthy running MMOs after a 3-5 years period, maybe ESO will be the exception).
The next question is if this new content is designed for certain brackets of champion points, i.e. whats the minimal number of points the casual gamer has when a new zone comes out, and is there increase in difficulty through hard modes for those with more points?
I personally think this has to be considered before talking about how many CP per day should be possible. Only then they can decide how much enlightment should be given per day, or if they want to even hardcap CP to a certain number per week.

The other thing is the distribution of XP throughout the game environment.
I can only talk about PvE right now. In my opinion the XP "nerfs" lead to a rather ridiculous situation right now in which i.e. a monster in Reapers March (EP vet perspective, the last V10 zone) nets more than two times the XP than a mob in the "end-game-PvE" zone Craglorn. In my opinion there should be a clear progression in XP, from zone to zone, and from dungeon to dungeon. Right now this seems pretty out of balance, especially for the overland zones. Couple of dungeons are fine, e.g. vet DSA or vet CoA are fine XP-wise (out of my memory I think a full run of CoA nets 50-60% CS-XP when you are enlightened).

So whats there to do?
I admit I don´t have the number one fits-all recipe for this, and many suggestions we can give can be good for many while alienating others.
There definately needs to be a good balance for everyone in the game, PvE players must not be ahead of PvP players or vice versa. Pleasing everyone is impossible, but pi****** everyone off is a piece of cake. That said it probably will be very hard to come up with a way of gaining CS-XP that is fine for the grinders, the questers, the PvP crowd, the dungeon runners, the gougers, the explorers, etc.

Another issue that comes to my mind while writing this is, the only reason people started to "grind-out" the champion points is that a small number of extra points is meaningless for character progression, and thats why people aim for those benchmarks at 90 or 360 for the second and third passives in the constellations. As long as the carrot on the stick is big everyone is trying to run as fast as they can, but if it´s too small, why run at all?

so, the abstract: make up your mind what time it should take to reach the 3600 CS points.


cheers

Faugaun

@kelly.medleyb14_ESO the big problem I have with DM is in order to make it fair it would require such large trigger points that it could be easily abused or it would break normal play. Consider if I decide to do a group delve in craglorn (or anywhere else) under your arbitrary scale 100% 1-10, 50% 11-20, 25% 21-30, 0% 30+. I may fight 30 crocodiles just on the middle boss fight from the adds in Hircines haunt in a single fight... Then god forbid whatever delve I am doing has a quest that glitches and I have to exit and reenter and redo the entire thing to complete the quest. Another example are quest hubs....frequently at quest hubs you encounter many of the same type of enemies at the entire hub....not being able to complete a hub without hitting DR is not good.

To do an effective DR it would need to be more on the scale of 0-250 =100%, 251-500 = 50%, 501-750 = 25%, 751-1000 = 0%....currently world mobs give 1.5k exp in some locations. So if you doubled that (3k) multiple by 250 you get 750,000 (with PvP exp bonus + ring of Mara + esoplus subscriber exp bonus + group bonus (someone else did the math in another thread, but it worked out to about 275k exp per cp) ) the next 250 mobs give 375,000 and the final set yeilds 187,500 ....total of 1,312,500 exp for grinding an area out....now currently grinding world mobs I can kill 250 mobs in 20 minutes so in 1 hour that yeilds 4.77 CP (under enlightened rules) or 1.19 CP (under non enlightened rules). This means if I set aside a weekend of play I could get 50ish CP between off work on Friday and back to work on Monday.

At least with a cap I can change characters, log off, do something else and not feel like my time is wasted by hitting mob DR so quickly and other don't feel that I can earn way to quick with more reasonable caps. Its a catch 22 the real problem is the fast people (no matter what you change the numbers too) are still 10, 20, 30 times faster than the slowest people. CS system is 1.44 billion champion exp if done entirely enlightened it is 360 million exp...or 360 vet levels.....with that kind of exp differential the people 30x faster will hit 3600 CP when the slowest person hits 120 cp. To put that into perspective the slow player is getting a character to VR12 and the fast player is getting 25.7 characters to VR14 I can currently get a character from VR1-VR14 in under 7 days....so in roughly 25 weeks (just under 6 months) the fastest players could be capped (this is based on full enlightenment the whole time, but faster is faster even if you remove enlightenment they will still be faster). Now imagine you the new player just got 120 cp vs the speed demon with 3600 cp .....this is why a cap system (where avg players can easily hit the cap in 1-3 hours) makes a lot more sense. I kinda really like a previous suggestion where the cap raises for everyone by (let's say 4 cp a day) and if you make it easy to get those exp then new players can come in and catch up easily (say they can get 10-12 a day feasibly because they are below cap)...plus it allows predictable power levels for new content development. Under this scenario it doesn't matter how much exp zos gives (heck make 1 raid hit the daily extension).

Zheg

Any updates on when we'll see some xp love? I'd like to level one of my alts through the veteran ranks, but the nerfs to xp make it even worse than the original veteran grind was at launch. There aren't even enough quests in lower + upper craglorn to go from v10 to v12 with the current rewards much less take your character to v14 like the zones were designed for. If that problem isn't blatantly obvious to the devs that we need this hotfixed and not hot-nerfed, I don't know what they're thinking. With all of the nerfs to boss xp, the only viable way to complete a character to v14 is to farm regular mobs in grind spots where you fight other players over kills to the point where the xp almost isn't even worth it.

The devs were able to VERY quickly implement these nerfs, they should be able to roll some of them back just as quickly. Waiting until 1.7 drops to be able to level a veteran character again is not going to work for me ...

Even though doing boss grinds in craglorn a few months ago made my ears bleed, you could at least make significant progress (or finish) in about a weekend or so. Veteran ranks are going away eventually, both players and developers realize what a mistake the veteran grind is, so I don't see the logic in insisting that this not be made easier ASAP. No one likes the veteran grind the first time around, much less the 4th

Whoever was the mastermind behind these nerfs, I think their punishment should be to level a character from v1 to v14 now. Enjoy, because we don't.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

As I stated above the numbers I gave are arbitrary examples. They need to be adjusted appropriately considering the task at hand.

DR on exp from mob kills is nothing new, it has been used quite successfully in many MMO's in the past and is the best way to prevent exploit grinding while at the same time rewarding diverse play styles.